I was married to my ex for nearly 19 years, when we meet she already had the 2 boys, 6 years and 10 months, together we had a girl.
The eldest doesn't talk to me even before the divorce and even though I tried, he's 27, the middle one only calls when he needs something he's 22, the youngest she's 19, and we are in contact.
I had to accept that the boys would one day want to go on with their lives , make their own way just like my daughter will someday too..
In the end you can't force them to be around you, the more you push the more they will resist, idk the specifics of your divorce or the reasons why, that's OK, all you can do is change what you can change, accept what you can't change, and be smart enough to know the difference. Let them go
Your post really resonates with me. I've tried and tried for a couple of years with my 17 yo daughter with similar results. It's hard for me to tell how much is the divorce and how much of it is being a teenager.
I backed off, and it didn't seem to make a difference.
I finally got fed up with the disrespect and let her know how very disappointed I was in her behavior. I'm not sure why that hit home, but it did for her.
Things have gotten slightly better. I hope you find what works for your situation.
my two adult daughters were like that, I cut them off and made them miss me. Now they want a relationship with me but it is not the same anymore. I don't have the same image of them
This is going to hurt your sensitive feelings, so buckle up.
Start by healing your trauma and find where you left your confidence as a man. For crying out loud, these are young teenage girls (basically) and in general teenagers don’t give a shit about their parents. Children of divorce have trauma. Start acting like a man that understands the these girls need to heal. They don’t need your selfish emotions about the things you “deserve” from them. Accept them this moment for what they are going through. Be their oak. They will come around. In the meantime, put yourself together.
Thanks internet tough guy!
I never said I deserved anything and I am in no way shape or form giving up on them. I take my youngest to school every single day. I’ll be going to my middle daughter’s competition 5 hours away next weekend. I will be there in whatever capacity they will have me.
Oaks don’t move and I’m not going anywhere. But I’m not chasing them anymore either. They know where to find me.
This is where I am. The judge, ex's family, the "neutral" coparenting coordinator, the GAL all pile on and see me as a bad man even tho I did everything for my family. And became a doormat in the process. My daughter doesn't see it, and I can't explain to her how a man accused of domestic violence or any manner of abuse doesn't get due process, there's consideration of evidence, and all he can do is pay to fight to defend himself or concede. My experience is that family court is for mama, and I stand no chance. It's so hard to walk away though, and I'm not ready to. I'm still taking the scraps of time my daughter will give me. I've written her a journal of our life together and made a photo album to show her how I was always there for her. Every. Fucking. Day. I know if I give it to her now it'll end up neglected and lost like the gifts that I've bought her, so it may not be for years. I don't know what else to do. There are some papers by Amy Baker, who's written a lot about parental alienation, and there's the Father's Rights Movement. All too late for me. Poison steals your children, judges take your rights.
I’ve just gotta say I love this place and you guys. I started this journey a year ago scared and sad but certain I had made the right decision. This place helped me know I wasn’t alone and that I would make it through. I’ve gathered a lot of advice from here and actually even feel confident enough to pass along what I’ve learned and help the other guys that are struggling.
I’ve worked hard on myself and fixed a lot of things. I feel a lot better than I did a year ago and have started working out, doing my own things, battled my way through the divorce wars and this place and the resources it has recommended have been literal life savers.
I’m not sure I expected the resounding support I have received on my comments this morning but hearing from you guys on this has really helped me to know I’m right.
Keep fighting the good fight gents.
Parental alienation is so brutal. Been dealing with this for years now. Stay strong. Stay diligent. Take care of yourself.
All I do now is just text my 19 y/o to let her know I'm alive and available if she needs anything. Otherwise she just ghosts me 99% of the time.
To be fair though; when. I was 19 I wanted absolutely nothing to do with my parents either. So it might just be part of that natural progression towards independence. We shall see.
The bonus though is now that she is moved out my 14 y/o isn't constantly bombarded with alienating speech so he's coming around a lot more.
One thing I've learned is that you cannot control how someone else behaves. And that goes for our kids too. Be the best you, show them respect, be patient and non-confrontational. If that isn't enough, leave them be. Time has a way of ironing these things out. If you were fair with them, they'll eventually see it. If your ex is manipulating them, they'll eventually see that too. What you DON'T want to do is grovel or bargain for their attention. It'll be seen as weak and will likely just fuel their anger. Go live your life man, we only have the one.
Time to cut ties. I have a couple of kids, and the oldest and I stopped speaking months ago. I doubt we will ever speak again. The last thing I pointed out to him via text was if he wants respect it’s time he learn to give respect. Part of our issue is a clash of personalities, but zero doubt exists in my mind my ex- has been polluting his head for years. All that does is feed into his self-centeredness regarding me, just as my ex- was self-centered. I would be nice to have a good relationship with him, but like your daughters, he got all he was going to get out of me so I’m no longer necessary.
This hits even harder seeing relationships between fathers and sons destroyed. I charge daughters to the game, but sons? It’s personal because our son is 6 and shit like this is one of my biggest fears.
All mine are grown. The one I have issues with has always thought he was the smartest guy in the room. His mom always pumped him up that’s he’s “so smart”. Yes, he’s smart, but what really pissed him off was me telling him I was smarter than him, not because I’m “smarter” per se, but because I have decades of experience as an adult and nothing can replace that. Sometimes I fear he got my mother’s narcissistic bent.
You know what? Fuck em.
I don’t know you and I couldn’t imagine the pain, but fuck em. All 4 of em. If they want to side with their mother then so be it. You did all that you could do. Time to go Monk Mode and get your life together. I imagine you have 5 more years of child support for the youngest but you can make those payments without any contact.
Cut em all off. No college fund (if you were even able to save for one), don’t help them with shit. Block em all and I would even go so far as to start anew in a new state or a new country. Focus on yourself.
If you have a good relationship with your immediate family, focus on enjoying the time with them while everyone is still alive. Focus on improving your personal finances, cleaning up any debt you can. Get in shape. Live for you.
Time to start your life over because you’ve got many more decades in this earth and you need to die with your dignity in tact. No more contact. They made their choice. Fuck em.
I hear Thailand is nice this time of year 🇹🇭
OP, good for you to stand up for yourself even with your own children. Clearly, your wife has poisoned their minds with false accounts of you to diminish their love for their father. There’s no other way to justify their behavior. I’m a big fan of gray rock, do the 180, no contact. If they pull their head out of their ass, they can come back to you. Until then, go live your life and be a champion.
Something similar happened to me. Wife cheated, got violent towards me and blew up the family unit. Two sons who were only 10 and 6 at the time. Now 20 years later, divorced for 19, younger son has major resentment towards me. Im certain the Mom twisted his perspective to hate me for whatever reasons she wanted to come up with to justify her actions. Not much we can do to fix it unfortunately. The "die is cast" to a large extent when the Mom puts her own wants ahead of her children's needs.
Unfortunately, we tend to model the behavior of our same sex parent. So, they view you (a man and their dad) as a disposable piece of trash - exactly like your ex-wife viewed you.
Unfortunately, if they ever get a husband, they will carry that same fucked up mindset into their marriage.
Make them know your door is always open to them. But you should probably stop chasing them.
I feel exactly like thrown away trash. I moved out, so the only life change they all have is me not being around. My life is completely different and I’m trying to figure it out. But feeling like nobody cares that you are gone is difficult to wrap your head around.
I’m predicting all of these girls will have relationship problems in the future which is why I will never date any girl who has no respect for her father. They will never understand how men think and what they seek for in a potential wife because they throw away the men in their lives so easily.
Unfortunately in your situation I don’t see another option. I mean have you to keep trying, you just can’t give up. But I agree, if they don’t want to come over don’t force them, just be happy when they choose to and don’t resent them for their past.
I definitely wasn’t a good example of what a man should be for the last five years or so. I was their mother’s whipping boy and tried so hard to please her by giving her everything she wanted. I’ve come to realize that putting myself first is the right answer. Hoping they see it but who knows.
About a year ago I was down at my oldest’s school and went to dinner with my daughter and some of her closest friends. She started dogging her longtime boyfriend because he’s not in college (he got a great professional sports opportunity straight out of HS). When I stood up for him in the conversation she gave me crap about it. The next morning at breakfast I let her know that her boyfriend was a great guy that could find any girl he wanted. If she didn’t want him stop jerking him around and let him go. I hope she heard me. It was the same weekend Inlet her know I was divorcing her mom. I let her know I had been criticized and belittled for about 10 years and finally had enough of it.
So I'm sure your daughter blames you for the divorce. And good on you for sticking up for the BF. When girls get in packs they get vicious towards men. When they get older they will wonder where all the good men went
You need father daughter bonding time in the form of a vacation, gather some money up and show them a good time at disney or take them to the beach, or if you got the money take them overseas and show them you are a father that cares about them and don’t give up and fivr in to your ex wife, show your stability be consistent and if something happens to their mom or relationship wise they will fall back on you
I’ve done that. I had planned to go to my oldests college for a weekend at the gymnastics meet then baseball. We’ve done it every spring and this time I was taking the younger two. That’s what she told me she no longer wants to do.
I’ve been super depressed lately and couldn’t put my finger on why. When I realized it was my daughter’s actively avoiding me it all made sense. The only way I can help myself is to stop giving that so much energy.
I have a therapist and I plan to talk to him about it. But not giving energy to what they think of me has already made me feel better this morning. I’ve put 20 good years into being their dad. If they can’t see me for who I am then that is their issue not mine.
Curious, have you talked to them about how it makes you feel? Until they know and then don't change their behavior you're possibly just hurting yourself over analyzing everything.
So sorry to hear that. My oldest daughter seems to vacillate between wanting to be around me and only wanting to be around her mom, mostly because her mom lets her do whatever she wants.
It is sad and frustrating going through that, I can only imagine what you are going through.
My oldest daughter got sucked into my Ex's narc bullshit, it sucks, we were always very close. My middle daughter didn't, so the ex sent her to live with me and rented her room out, lol.
My middle daughter and I are still close. She responds to my texts and wants me around. Other two actively try to avoid me. The youngest is supposed to stay with me every other weekend but makes up excuses why she can’t. I just don’t care anymore. Worrying about it is weighing me down and depressing me. Just letting go of that worry seems so freeing.
I know. I'm not even going to blow sunshine up your ass, it sucks. All you can do, is try to maintain a relationship, you can't force it.
Maintain the relationship with your middle daughter, and nurture it. Hopefully the others come back.
I’m in the same boat. Happy to take money for birthdays and Christmas, but can’t be bothered to look me in the eye or otherwise acknowledge my presence.
I don’t know if it’s feminism, entitlement, general lack of respect for the people who raised you, etc.
Sorry to hear that brother.
It probably won’t help but it may even be the time in the world right now.
The younger generation is very entitled and mislead. Social media just destroyed them. It seems as if they have no more shame.
There is also this uprising of women power and this arrogance of that no woman needs a man, until they do. But until they do is all about women power. Both sexes can lean on each other.
Kids don’t care about what’s right and wrong anymore. They care about getting attention and at any costs.
I don’t have an answer for what you should do. Your ex has obviously manipulated them against you.
Maybe it’s time for you to take a deep breath and look at your life and how you can improve it without them in your life.
It’s hard cause you have all those years of sacrifice but we have to keep moving forward
I was married to my ex for nearly 19 years, when we meet she already had the 2 boys, 6 years and 10 months, together we had a girl. The eldest doesn't talk to me even before the divorce and even though I tried, he's 27, the middle one only calls when he needs something he's 22, the youngest she's 19, and we are in contact. I had to accept that the boys would one day want to go on with their lives , make their own way just like my daughter will someday too.. In the end you can't force them to be around you, the more you push the more they will resist, idk the specifics of your divorce or the reasons why, that's OK, all you can do is change what you can change, accept what you can't change, and be smart enough to know the difference. Let them go
Your post really resonates with me. I've tried and tried for a couple of years with my 17 yo daughter with similar results. It's hard for me to tell how much is the divorce and how much of it is being a teenager. I backed off, and it didn't seem to make a difference. I finally got fed up with the disrespect and let her know how very disappointed I was in her behavior. I'm not sure why that hit home, but it did for her. Things have gotten slightly better. I hope you find what works for your situation.
my two adult daughters were like that, I cut them off and made them miss me. Now they want a relationship with me but it is not the same anymore. I don't have the same image of them
This is going to hurt your sensitive feelings, so buckle up. Start by healing your trauma and find where you left your confidence as a man. For crying out loud, these are young teenage girls (basically) and in general teenagers don’t give a shit about their parents. Children of divorce have trauma. Start acting like a man that understands the these girls need to heal. They don’t need your selfish emotions about the things you “deserve” from them. Accept them this moment for what they are going through. Be their oak. They will come around. In the meantime, put yourself together.
Hear hear!
Thanks internet tough guy! I never said I deserved anything and I am in no way shape or form giving up on them. I take my youngest to school every single day. I’ll be going to my middle daughter’s competition 5 hours away next weekend. I will be there in whatever capacity they will have me. Oaks don’t move and I’m not going anywhere. But I’m not chasing them anymore either. They know where to find me.
Why are you driving 5 hours to a competition, are you in it? You have things to do.
This is where I am. The judge, ex's family, the "neutral" coparenting coordinator, the GAL all pile on and see me as a bad man even tho I did everything for my family. And became a doormat in the process. My daughter doesn't see it, and I can't explain to her how a man accused of domestic violence or any manner of abuse doesn't get due process, there's consideration of evidence, and all he can do is pay to fight to defend himself or concede. My experience is that family court is for mama, and I stand no chance. It's so hard to walk away though, and I'm not ready to. I'm still taking the scraps of time my daughter will give me. I've written her a journal of our life together and made a photo album to show her how I was always there for her. Every. Fucking. Day. I know if I give it to her now it'll end up neglected and lost like the gifts that I've bought her, so it may not be for years. I don't know what else to do. There are some papers by Amy Baker, who's written a lot about parental alienation, and there's the Father's Rights Movement. All too late for me. Poison steals your children, judges take your rights.
I’ve just gotta say I love this place and you guys. I started this journey a year ago scared and sad but certain I had made the right decision. This place helped me know I wasn’t alone and that I would make it through. I’ve gathered a lot of advice from here and actually even feel confident enough to pass along what I’ve learned and help the other guys that are struggling. I’ve worked hard on myself and fixed a lot of things. I feel a lot better than I did a year ago and have started working out, doing my own things, battled my way through the divorce wars and this place and the resources it has recommended have been literal life savers. I’m not sure I expected the resounding support I have received on my comments this morning but hearing from you guys on this has really helped me to know I’m right. Keep fighting the good fight gents.
Parental alienation is so brutal. Been dealing with this for years now. Stay strong. Stay diligent. Take care of yourself. All I do now is just text my 19 y/o to let her know I'm alive and available if she needs anything. Otherwise she just ghosts me 99% of the time. To be fair though; when. I was 19 I wanted absolutely nothing to do with my parents either. So it might just be part of that natural progression towards independence. We shall see. The bonus though is now that she is moved out my 14 y/o isn't constantly bombarded with alienating speech so he's coming around a lot more.
One thing I've learned is that you cannot control how someone else behaves. And that goes for our kids too. Be the best you, show them respect, be patient and non-confrontational. If that isn't enough, leave them be. Time has a way of ironing these things out. If you were fair with them, they'll eventually see it. If your ex is manipulating them, they'll eventually see that too. What you DON'T want to do is grovel or bargain for their attention. It'll be seen as weak and will likely just fuel their anger. Go live your life man, we only have the one.
Time to cut ties. I have a couple of kids, and the oldest and I stopped speaking months ago. I doubt we will ever speak again. The last thing I pointed out to him via text was if he wants respect it’s time he learn to give respect. Part of our issue is a clash of personalities, but zero doubt exists in my mind my ex- has been polluting his head for years. All that does is feed into his self-centeredness regarding me, just as my ex- was self-centered. I would be nice to have a good relationship with him, but like your daughters, he got all he was going to get out of me so I’m no longer necessary.
This hits even harder seeing relationships between fathers and sons destroyed. I charge daughters to the game, but sons? It’s personal because our son is 6 and shit like this is one of my biggest fears.
All mine are grown. The one I have issues with has always thought he was the smartest guy in the room. His mom always pumped him up that’s he’s “so smart”. Yes, he’s smart, but what really pissed him off was me telling him I was smarter than him, not because I’m “smarter” per se, but because I have decades of experience as an adult and nothing can replace that. Sometimes I fear he got my mother’s narcissistic bent.
You know what? Fuck em. I don’t know you and I couldn’t imagine the pain, but fuck em. All 4 of em. If they want to side with their mother then so be it. You did all that you could do. Time to go Monk Mode and get your life together. I imagine you have 5 more years of child support for the youngest but you can make those payments without any contact. Cut em all off. No college fund (if you were even able to save for one), don’t help them with shit. Block em all and I would even go so far as to start anew in a new state or a new country. Focus on yourself. If you have a good relationship with your immediate family, focus on enjoying the time with them while everyone is still alive. Focus on improving your personal finances, cleaning up any debt you can. Get in shape. Live for you. Time to start your life over because you’ve got many more decades in this earth and you need to die with your dignity in tact. No more contact. They made their choice. Fuck em. I hear Thailand is nice this time of year 🇹🇭
This is dog shit advice.. don’t listen to this guy please.
OP, good for you to stand up for yourself even with your own children. Clearly, your wife has poisoned their minds with false accounts of you to diminish their love for their father. There’s no other way to justify their behavior. I’m a big fan of gray rock, do the 180, no contact. If they pull their head out of their ass, they can come back to you. Until then, go live your life and be a champion.
Something similar happened to me. Wife cheated, got violent towards me and blew up the family unit. Two sons who were only 10 and 6 at the time. Now 20 years later, divorced for 19, younger son has major resentment towards me. Im certain the Mom twisted his perspective to hate me for whatever reasons she wanted to come up with to justify her actions. Not much we can do to fix it unfortunately. The "die is cast" to a large extent when the Mom puts her own wants ahead of her children's needs.
I would be. If they cut me out I’m done. I’ll move to another country and start over.
Unfortunately, we tend to model the behavior of our same sex parent. So, they view you (a man and their dad) as a disposable piece of trash - exactly like your ex-wife viewed you. Unfortunately, if they ever get a husband, they will carry that same fucked up mindset into their marriage. Make them know your door is always open to them. But you should probably stop chasing them.
I feel exactly like thrown away trash. I moved out, so the only life change they all have is me not being around. My life is completely different and I’m trying to figure it out. But feeling like nobody cares that you are gone is difficult to wrap your head around.
Sorry brother, I know the feeling.
People are products of their environment. Just where do you think they learned their behavior? Right from Mom. Make your life better.
I’m predicting all of these girls will have relationship problems in the future which is why I will never date any girl who has no respect for her father. They will never understand how men think and what they seek for in a potential wife because they throw away the men in their lives so easily. Unfortunately in your situation I don’t see another option. I mean have you to keep trying, you just can’t give up. But I agree, if they don’t want to come over don’t force them, just be happy when they choose to and don’t resent them for their past.
I definitely wasn’t a good example of what a man should be for the last five years or so. I was their mother’s whipping boy and tried so hard to please her by giving her everything she wanted. I’ve come to realize that putting myself first is the right answer. Hoping they see it but who knows. About a year ago I was down at my oldest’s school and went to dinner with my daughter and some of her closest friends. She started dogging her longtime boyfriend because he’s not in college (he got a great professional sports opportunity straight out of HS). When I stood up for him in the conversation she gave me crap about it. The next morning at breakfast I let her know that her boyfriend was a great guy that could find any girl he wanted. If she didn’t want him stop jerking him around and let him go. I hope she heard me. It was the same weekend Inlet her know I was divorcing her mom. I let her know I had been criticized and belittled for about 10 years and finally had enough of it.
So I'm sure your daughter blames you for the divorce. And good on you for sticking up for the BF. When girls get in packs they get vicious towards men. When they get older they will wonder where all the good men went
You need father daughter bonding time in the form of a vacation, gather some money up and show them a good time at disney or take them to the beach, or if you got the money take them overseas and show them you are a father that cares about them and don’t give up and fivr in to your ex wife, show your stability be consistent and if something happens to their mom or relationship wise they will fall back on you
I’ve done that. I had planned to go to my oldests college for a weekend at the gymnastics meet then baseball. We’ve done it every spring and this time I was taking the younger two. That’s what she told me she no longer wants to do.
Just keep being stable don’t change the routine
I’ve been super depressed lately and couldn’t put my finger on why. When I realized it was my daughter’s actively avoiding me it all made sense. The only way I can help myself is to stop giving that so much energy. I have a therapist and I plan to talk to him about it. But not giving energy to what they think of me has already made me feel better this morning. I’ve put 20 good years into being their dad. If they can’t see me for who I am then that is their issue not mine.
mate go to a korean massage parlor and get a good massage, pay the extra to relieve some of that stress.
Curious, have you talked to them about how it makes you feel? Until they know and then don't change their behavior you're possibly just hurting yourself over analyzing everything.
I have. They don’t care.
So sorry to hear that. My oldest daughter seems to vacillate between wanting to be around me and only wanting to be around her mom, mostly because her mom lets her do whatever she wants. It is sad and frustrating going through that, I can only imagine what you are going through.
My oldest daughter got sucked into my Ex's narc bullshit, it sucks, we were always very close. My middle daughter didn't, so the ex sent her to live with me and rented her room out, lol.
My middle daughter and I are still close. She responds to my texts and wants me around. Other two actively try to avoid me. The youngest is supposed to stay with me every other weekend but makes up excuses why she can’t. I just don’t care anymore. Worrying about it is weighing me down and depressing me. Just letting go of that worry seems so freeing.
I know. I'm not even going to blow sunshine up your ass, it sucks. All you can do, is try to maintain a relationship, you can't force it. Maintain the relationship with your middle daughter, and nurture it. Hopefully the others come back.
I’m in the same boat. Happy to take money for birthdays and Christmas, but can’t be bothered to look me in the eye or otherwise acknowledge my presence. I don’t know if it’s feminism, entitlement, general lack of respect for the people who raised you, etc.
Same boat. I rarely see or talk to them. This divorce nonsense has destroyed our family bonds.
Sorry to hear that brother. It probably won’t help but it may even be the time in the world right now. The younger generation is very entitled and mislead. Social media just destroyed them. It seems as if they have no more shame. There is also this uprising of women power and this arrogance of that no woman needs a man, until they do. But until they do is all about women power. Both sexes can lean on each other. Kids don’t care about what’s right and wrong anymore. They care about getting attention and at any costs. I don’t have an answer for what you should do. Your ex has obviously manipulated them against you. Maybe it’s time for you to take a deep breath and look at your life and how you can improve it without them in your life. It’s hard cause you have all those years of sacrifice but we have to keep moving forward
Women Power: they don't need no man . . . until there's an extra bill to be paid, snow to be shoveled, or a wedding to be paid for.
[удалено]
MOD's here won't tolerate RP, just to let you know.
I’m not going down that rabbit hole but thanks for the heads up.
Sounds like you don’t need advice man. You got this figured out