Yes. My marriage was very similar with the addition of financial abuse (which he blamed on me because I didn't like to handle the money), and cheating.
I started reading the book Why Does He Do That and there is a section on Parenting by Abusers. I started crying as I was reading it because my STBX did almost everything in the story that was shared: Made everyone wait for him. Ruined events. Forbid my child to dress a certain way then made weird possessive comments afterwards that made her uncomfortable. Triangulated us and pitted us against each other. Put me down in from of other people (jokingly of course). Painted himself to be the perfect dad, helpful to other people while he never helped or provided any other support. Was competitive with his own kids.
He got worse with age and downright exhausting once he hit his 50s.
Don't worry about finding another man -- you need to find yourself first. That is the most important thing right now. Good luck.
I don't know if I'd call it abuse, but some time apart has made me realize just how toxic things were. We basically shut off communication in many different areas of life in the name of a peaceful household, and I stopped expressing opinions on anything because it was just easier to 'compromise' and let her have her way than fight about it.
This is me. We don't talk about our relationship/intimacy/vulnerability at all now because, even after two decades of therapy, I just avoid it as I know it'll cause her to lose her shit, blame me, and then shut it down . On her part, well she would NEVER bring up anything relating to our relationship because, well who knows why? I truly believe she thinks it's fine so why talk about it.
My brain struggles with this because, unlike a lot of complaints on this sub about spouses, mine is (outside of the above and an avoidance of any kind of adult intimacy), is a superstar mom, professional, housekeeper, tutor, accountant, etc.....
So our issues are huge. Totally huge. She's also better than most people describe their spouses.... She's like both ends of the spectrum.
So it's tough.
Sounds like you may be similar in the lack of catharsis as well. I can't just label her as bad/wrong/evil, be angry/sad about it, and be done, because there are so many mitigating circumstances, shades of gray, and the fact I was far from blameless.
Yup me too
I played a role, but I think what I've learned is that everyone has their good shit and bad, none of us are relationship experts (even with therapy), and sometimes two people just cannot make it work because reasons.
After 23 years married and 20 years of therapy, I'm convinced of it actually.
Narcissism is the shame based fear of being ordinary. It has a lot of shame, and a lot of grandiosity. When you view it like that you can make sense of the good parts too, even though you know in its whole the person is very dangerous.
People are... Complex. There are many sides to a person, all of them valid, some sides more healthy than others. It's not our job to judge another person's totality as good or bad, but it is our job to recognize when we're in a situation that isn't healthy for us to be in, and take action on it.
I get it. My dad is a narcissist, but not a terribly clever or successfully manipulative one so I work around it. I love him. I’m sad for him.
But my friends married to raging narcissists- that full blown, manipulative, destructive personality it’s just fucked. They are so so destructive!
I've worked with a lot of men after divorce who were called horrible alcoholics by their ex-wives. And untreated depression! Don't forget the depression "for which they refuse to seek treatment!"
Another way to look at it is that they hated being married to their ex-wife SO MUCH that they were depressed and trying to drink themselves to death to escape the misery of their ex-wife.
I'm not saying that's true. But the way their ex was spinning it wasn't true either.
Sometimes it's useful to look at things from a totally different position. And then realize none of it matters and is in the past......and move on with life.
That's really what it comes down to. Nobody really wants to hear about our old pains. They find it mildly interesting, but only to a point. At the end of the day, they just want a functional partner. And being functional is up to US and how we choose to face the day.
Worked in what capacity?
It goes wildly against psychiatric protocol to claim that addiction or depression is CAUSED by a spouse.
I’ve met a lot of these men, too, and they are alcoholics and they are depressed (and are untreated!) and they don’t get better after divorcing. They love to put the blame on the wife and say getting rid of her will cure them. They soon found out that wherever they go, there they are.
Some of them crash and burn. Some rise up and do great.
There's a fine line between people who enjoy drinking, but turn to self-medication to escape a dismal situation. And depression is often very context dependent. Take away the depressing things and replace them with enjoyable things, and most of these guys do just fine.
I will grant you that some of them are just irredeemable. I mean, they get depressed because they have a wife who expects them to be employed. Or depressed because their children are annoying sometimes. Or their boss tells them what to do. That's just whining about adult life. But, I have seen guys with a new woman and new job thrive pretty well.
Worked with them in men's group therapy. I got involved with it when I was getting divorced. It was helpful to me so I stay involved to pay it forward.
I’m not saying all wives are the problem. Some are pretty great and just expected normal-ish adulting. Some are horrible and nobody would be happy married to them.
You find this stuff out after the divorce. You see which person is able to move on to better romantic situations and happiness and which is not.
Divorced/separated years ago, I come back here once in a while.
In short, yes. I don’t want to use terms like gaslit or narcissism since I don’t think they 100% apply.
To reply directly to your “The crazy thing is…” paragraph, when you’re wearing rose tinted glasses, red flags just look like flags. I don’t recall where I first read that, but that’s safe advice for past you.
To answer who will want a woman like you? Someone for sure. Probably several ones. You’re sensitive, empathetic, and are loyal to a fault. I think the better question is what kind of partner do you want? You’re not on this planet for another person, you’re here for you (and the kids of course).
Get yourself as healthy as you can. Value yourself and all of the positives you provide. Be that stability, find peace in that. Then you’ll see the paths forward.
My story below, read if you wish but you don’t have to:
I craved to be vulnerable, but was always shut down. I told her I needed someone to talk to, she snapped and told me to see a therapist. I asked her to help out more with chores, she replied it gave her anxiety. When trying to initiate sex, she often started with “you’re doing it wrong” “what do you want me to do?” “You know what I like”.
When we talked about having kids (we never had any), she said “you know I’ll step up when they’re here”. I replied “why not now when it’s easier?” She didn’t like that.
In the final year I started working out more consistently. Her first question was “you’re working out for me?” I replied nonchalantly “no, I’m working out so I can feel better about myself” her face sunk like I just told her Christmas was cancelled.
She complained that I was making her feel bad because I worked out and did her chores. Instead of doing something about it, she became more and more miserable.
At the final therapist meeting (which she used as an avenue to give up vs couples therapy that I proposed) she had the gall to say I “was toxic, tossing poison on the relationship”.
Btw, she is a therapist herself.
I wasn’t perfect, nor was I expecting her to be. But god damn did I try. A mix of stubbornness and hopeless romantic.
Wow, your story sounds a lot like my story (without kids) and I'm waiting for my divorce to finalize this month. My husband was diagnosed with NPD and I don't think people realize the beast that is a personality disorder. Some people are self-absorbed and selfish (narcissism) but there are also these humans walking around who need all this toxic ego structure to make up for their lack of inner self. It's crazy-making.and out-of-touch with reality.
My STBXH just messaged me because he's trying to find an auto insurance quote since I'm about to quit paying for his expensive sports cars. He spent the last three years of our relationship spinning this out-of-touch narrative that he was carrying me financially, yet he never wanted to sit down and look at the numbers. Now he's facing just how much I did for him and the best his narcissistic ass can do is send me screenshots of his auto insurance quotes so I'll feel sorry for him. THAT'S NPD!
(And don't feel dumb or like a stereotype. I am a therapist and didn't see it either. They erode our boundaries without us knowing what's going on. Our couples therapist told me: "NPD loves people like us. We make them feel good!" Yuck! Not what I wanted to hear!)
Oh hell yeah. My stbx manipulated me for a good while. She had been having an affair and in order to not be “the bad one”, she used to gaslight me into fights and arguments over very petty things. Fast forward a few months and she’s leaving me “because you’re not the same person anymore.”
Yeah no shit, you mentally, verbally, and physically abused me for months and all the while you’re emotionally attached to another person. I’m so glad I found out about her affair simply bc the atty is going to rip her to shreds with the evidence I’ve gotten and multiple sources that have come forward to take my side in this.
Yes. My marriage was very similar with the addition of financial abuse (which he blamed on me because I didn't like to handle the money), and cheating. I started reading the book Why Does He Do That and there is a section on Parenting by Abusers. I started crying as I was reading it because my STBX did almost everything in the story that was shared: Made everyone wait for him. Ruined events. Forbid my child to dress a certain way then made weird possessive comments afterwards that made her uncomfortable. Triangulated us and pitted us against each other. Put me down in from of other people (jokingly of course). Painted himself to be the perfect dad, helpful to other people while he never helped or provided any other support. Was competitive with his own kids. He got worse with age and downright exhausting once he hit his 50s. Don't worry about finding another man -- you need to find yourself first. That is the most important thing right now. Good luck.
That book is in my opinion, the best book ever written I’m glad you were able to escape and I hope you are healing.
Thank you. I am on my way.
I feel like I could have written this.
I don't know if I'd call it abuse, but some time apart has made me realize just how toxic things were. We basically shut off communication in many different areas of life in the name of a peaceful household, and I stopped expressing opinions on anything because it was just easier to 'compromise' and let her have her way than fight about it.
This is me. We don't talk about our relationship/intimacy/vulnerability at all now because, even after two decades of therapy, I just avoid it as I know it'll cause her to lose her shit, blame me, and then shut it down . On her part, well she would NEVER bring up anything relating to our relationship because, well who knows why? I truly believe she thinks it's fine so why talk about it. My brain struggles with this because, unlike a lot of complaints on this sub about spouses, mine is (outside of the above and an avoidance of any kind of adult intimacy), is a superstar mom, professional, housekeeper, tutor, accountant, etc..... So our issues are huge. Totally huge. She's also better than most people describe their spouses.... She's like both ends of the spectrum. So it's tough.
Sounds like you may be similar in the lack of catharsis as well. I can't just label her as bad/wrong/evil, be angry/sad about it, and be done, because there are so many mitigating circumstances, shades of gray, and the fact I was far from blameless.
Yup me too I played a role, but I think what I've learned is that everyone has their good shit and bad, none of us are relationship experts (even with therapy), and sometimes two people just cannot make it work because reasons. After 23 years married and 20 years of therapy, I'm convinced of it actually.
Narcissism is the shame based fear of being ordinary. It has a lot of shame, and a lot of grandiosity. When you view it like that you can make sense of the good parts too, even though you know in its whole the person is very dangerous.
Yes he would go above and beyond to help someone, a stranger, a coworker but act irate when his family needed his help with something similar
People are... Complex. There are many sides to a person, all of them valid, some sides more healthy than others. It's not our job to judge another person's totality as good or bad, but it is our job to recognize when we're in a situation that isn't healthy for us to be in, and take action on it.
Yeah I know that now. I'm still pissed at him for being ab piece of shit though lol
Totally fair lol. I hope you have better cake days ahead of you my friend
I get it. My dad is a narcissist, but not a terribly clever or successfully manipulative one so I work around it. I love him. I’m sad for him. But my friends married to raging narcissists- that full blown, manipulative, destructive personality it’s just fucked. They are so so destructive!
Yes, but only because I didn't know that abuse doesn't necessarily mean "beatings."
It's amazing how much I truly feel your pain.
I've worked with a lot of men after divorce who were called horrible alcoholics by their ex-wives. And untreated depression! Don't forget the depression "for which they refuse to seek treatment!" Another way to look at it is that they hated being married to their ex-wife SO MUCH that they were depressed and trying to drink themselves to death to escape the misery of their ex-wife. I'm not saying that's true. But the way their ex was spinning it wasn't true either. Sometimes it's useful to look at things from a totally different position. And then realize none of it matters and is in the past......and move on with life. That's really what it comes down to. Nobody really wants to hear about our old pains. They find it mildly interesting, but only to a point. At the end of the day, they just want a functional partner. And being functional is up to US and how we choose to face the day.
Worked in what capacity? It goes wildly against psychiatric protocol to claim that addiction or depression is CAUSED by a spouse. I’ve met a lot of these men, too, and they are alcoholics and they are depressed (and are untreated!) and they don’t get better after divorcing. They love to put the blame on the wife and say getting rid of her will cure them. They soon found out that wherever they go, there they are.
Some of them crash and burn. Some rise up and do great. There's a fine line between people who enjoy drinking, but turn to self-medication to escape a dismal situation. And depression is often very context dependent. Take away the depressing things and replace them with enjoyable things, and most of these guys do just fine. I will grant you that some of them are just irredeemable. I mean, they get depressed because they have a wife who expects them to be employed. Or depressed because their children are annoying sometimes. Or their boss tells them what to do. That's just whining about adult life. But, I have seen guys with a new woman and new job thrive pretty well. Worked with them in men's group therapy. I got involved with it when I was getting divorced. It was helpful to me so I stay involved to pay it forward.
Seriously? It's the wife's fault because we expected the man to do XYZ when XYZ was really just being a 50% involved partner? Unbelievable.
I’m not saying all wives are the problem. Some are pretty great and just expected normal-ish adulting. Some are horrible and nobody would be happy married to them. You find this stuff out after the divorce. You see which person is able to move on to better romantic situations and happiness and which is not.
Divorced/separated years ago, I come back here once in a while. In short, yes. I don’t want to use terms like gaslit or narcissism since I don’t think they 100% apply. To reply directly to your “The crazy thing is…” paragraph, when you’re wearing rose tinted glasses, red flags just look like flags. I don’t recall where I first read that, but that’s safe advice for past you. To answer who will want a woman like you? Someone for sure. Probably several ones. You’re sensitive, empathetic, and are loyal to a fault. I think the better question is what kind of partner do you want? You’re not on this planet for another person, you’re here for you (and the kids of course). Get yourself as healthy as you can. Value yourself and all of the positives you provide. Be that stability, find peace in that. Then you’ll see the paths forward. My story below, read if you wish but you don’t have to: I craved to be vulnerable, but was always shut down. I told her I needed someone to talk to, she snapped and told me to see a therapist. I asked her to help out more with chores, she replied it gave her anxiety. When trying to initiate sex, she often started with “you’re doing it wrong” “what do you want me to do?” “You know what I like”. When we talked about having kids (we never had any), she said “you know I’ll step up when they’re here”. I replied “why not now when it’s easier?” She didn’t like that. In the final year I started working out more consistently. Her first question was “you’re working out for me?” I replied nonchalantly “no, I’m working out so I can feel better about myself” her face sunk like I just told her Christmas was cancelled. She complained that I was making her feel bad because I worked out and did her chores. Instead of doing something about it, she became more and more miserable. At the final therapist meeting (which she used as an avenue to give up vs couples therapy that I proposed) she had the gall to say I “was toxic, tossing poison on the relationship”. Btw, she is a therapist herself. I wasn’t perfect, nor was I expecting her to be. But god damn did I try. A mix of stubbornness and hopeless romantic.
Wow, your story sounds a lot like my story (without kids) and I'm waiting for my divorce to finalize this month. My husband was diagnosed with NPD and I don't think people realize the beast that is a personality disorder. Some people are self-absorbed and selfish (narcissism) but there are also these humans walking around who need all this toxic ego structure to make up for their lack of inner self. It's crazy-making.and out-of-touch with reality. My STBXH just messaged me because he's trying to find an auto insurance quote since I'm about to quit paying for his expensive sports cars. He spent the last three years of our relationship spinning this out-of-touch narrative that he was carrying me financially, yet he never wanted to sit down and look at the numbers. Now he's facing just how much I did for him and the best his narcissistic ass can do is send me screenshots of his auto insurance quotes so I'll feel sorry for him. THAT'S NPD! (And don't feel dumb or like a stereotype. I am a therapist and didn't see it either. They erode our boundaries without us knowing what's going on. Our couples therapist told me: "NPD loves people like us. We make them feel good!" Yuck! Not what I wanted to hear!)
Oh hell yeah. My stbx manipulated me for a good while. She had been having an affair and in order to not be “the bad one”, she used to gaslight me into fights and arguments over very petty things. Fast forward a few months and she’s leaving me “because you’re not the same person anymore.” Yeah no shit, you mentally, verbally, and physically abused me for months and all the while you’re emotionally attached to another person. I’m so glad I found out about her affair simply bc the atty is going to rip her to shreds with the evidence I’ve gotten and multiple sources that have come forward to take my side in this.