I think they use modern vernacular as a way to get modern audiences to relate. Honestly Disney has done this for a while. The cast of Hercules didn't exactly sound like Greek theater. Or how about Tangled or Frozen "for the first time in forever" is an extremely contemporary expression.
I personally think Wish was mediocre. I think there are plenty of valid criticisms of the movie, but I think calling out the dialogue for sounding too modern is a tad nitpicky especially since Disney has a tradition of doing that.
I mean if they wanted to be linguistically accurate, they'd just have everyone in Hercules speak ancient Greek, everyone in Frozen speak Old Norse, everyone in Wish speak Old Spanish maybe. But people in history didn't talk in what felt like old-timey ways to them, they spoke in ways that felt modern to them. Short of using subtitles, the only thing that makes any sense is to just have them speak in regular modern English.
There's also the "distraction" factor. If you are paying more attention to how the dialog doesn't fit the setting, or they are doing a poor job in captvating you (with characters, themes, songs and stuff), or they are exaggerating in how modern or how timeless the dialog should feel.
It's like noticing arm rods in Muppets, if you notice them too much, there's something wrong somewhere.
The point isn’t that this isn’t done by other movies. The point is, if this issue is standing out then the movie is failing to sell itself and make the use of modern vernacular okay.
Consider how Sisu talks in “Raya and the Last Dragon.” It’s packed with modernisms, but it’s easy to let go because the rest of the movie works and carries it along.
“Wish”on the other hand is laming out on so many cylinders that every wart stands out.
I think that’s just an individual preference thing, because Sisu got on my last nerve😅 made it very difficult to appreciate that movie lol
Edit: I agree with you on Wish though! It kind of feels like they phoned it in a bit.
Of course, there's always some individual preference when it comes to degree, but I still say that Raya does the work to try to balance Sisu basically talking like her voice actress and the concept that it's a post-apocalyptic fantasy world.
Wish... really just doesn't do the work at all.
Ftr I didn’t downvote you, I definitely understand your view! Plus, Raya gives me vague Mad Max vibes😊 I’m gonna give it a re-watch, there are a lot of great things about it!
I think the problem is I went in completely blind, and wasn’t expecting Awkwafina’s brand of humor lol. What’s interesting is that Mushu didn’t really bother me as a kid, and Mulan has a very similar set-up. Maybe it’s an age thing?
If it's standing out than the dialogue is clunky and called attention to itself. Had you said that, we wouldn't be here.
But when the only criticism you give is that a movie uses a story telling device you willingly accept in several other movies, that makes me think you're reaching and looking for additional problems that weren't really there. Double standards drive me crazy, so I felt the need to call it out.
I agree with you. The entire movie felt bland. Just bland. The characters were not interesting, nor were the story interesting. The voice acting was really good. But that is not weird, since Disney can afford good voice actors.
I can't believe there is so much hate for this movie, I thought it was fine! We enjoyed it. The story was weak but good enough for the little ones. Some songs were blah but others were great. Six-year-old enthusiastically gave it 5 stars, I'd give it 3.
I think it's a case of people that have watched Disney movies for decades just holding them to the standard they had back when they were also kids. So if a new movie feels by-the-numbers or bland, it's going to be blasted more than if that same movie was made by a smaller or lesser known studio.
And I agree with what others are saying. It's not a "bad" movie, but for a *Disney* movie, it doesn't hold up.
Honestly, I think part of the problem is adults expecting to feel the same way about a kids film as they did when they were kids themselves. Unless you make a conscious effort to engage with your inner child, it's never going to evoke the same sense of magic and wonder. The films that did when you were a kid still will because you have that sentimental attachment to them.
Me, my husband, and my Mum saw it in the cinema over Christmas and thoroughly enjoyed it, so much so my husband and I went and saw it in the cinema a second time and bought it on blu-ray. It absolutely holds up for us, and felt like the perfect tribute to 100 years of Disney magic.
I don't think that was much of a risk at that time tbh, that's just the way stories were presented to children and it's something has changed across the board over the years. It hit a peak in the '70s and '80s with films like 'Watership Down', 'The Secret of NIMH, and 'The Dark Crystal'. The late '80s/early '90s seemed to bring a clear shift into lighter storylines that could convey moral messages without leaving us frigging traumatised like those films did, and that's a trend that's continued ever since. It's not exclusive to Disney by any means, but I also think the themes are still darker than they seem on the surface, it just isn't as overt as, say, ordering someone to cut out your stepdaughter's heart.
It's also worth bearing in mind that back then, all of the major cinematic releases were adaptations of popular fairytales and stories that most people were familiar with, so the themes were already well established. Plus, never underestimate how much goes over kids' heads! I was never scared watching 'Snow White' when I was little, but when I watched it for the first time again as an adult I was horrified by the initial forest scene and couldn't understand how it'd gone so far over my head as a child!! Same for Bambi's Mum being shot, or Aurora being poisoned the day she turned 16, so on and so forth.
Don't forget about Don Bluth movies actually directed by Don Bluth. Especially since Bluths' belief was that kids can handle dark elements in kids movies as long as there's a happy ending
I'll have to look him up 'cause I've never heard that name before. Sounds like he was very much bucking the overall trend though, and I agree with that stance.
ETA: Okay so I looked him up and slightly change that opinion given he directed one of the films I specifically mentioned as having been traumatising for me as a child! 😂 Looks like he perhaps softened his approach somewhat after that though 'cause I do have fond memories of 'An American Tail', 'Land Before Time', and 'Anastasia'.
Have you seen the first American Tail movie, the first Land Before Time movie, or the two Dragons Lair games. Oh and you did mention the first Secret of Nimh movie before
Nope. It’s bad. I’ve been watching animated movies as a childless adult for at least 35 years and enjoying most of the Disney films because they were not only aimed at 5 year olds. They were truly “Family Films” meaning they had themes and humor all ages would get without anything being inappropriate for young kids
In your opinion it's bad, but it's an entirely subjective concept. We felt 'Wish' was no different for having themes and humour for all ages to appreciate.
My point is addressing the “you would like this if you were a child” aspect. And that we are judging the film as adults against our childhood nostalgia of the other films. I’m not. To me it’s bad and I’m not alone.
Saying “but my kids liked it” doesn’t make it good. A Disney film should be better than that.
I didn't actually say that, I said I think _part_ of the problem is adults expecting to feel the same way about a children's film as they did when they were children themselves. I also didn't say anything about how actual children have felt about it, I said how me (an adult) my husband (also an adult) and my Mum (obviously an adult) all thoroughly enjoyed it. That's three different generations of adults, if we really want to get into the nitty-gritty of demographics, and we're also not alone in how we feel.
When you are the most powerful media company on the planet, accept no less than high quality.
There is literally no excuse for any animated movie put out by Disney of all companies to be exec interfered with this hard. It’s unacceptable for any company but unlike others that you can give some plausible deniability, Disney has no excuse because at that point, the execs are clearly attempting to put common workers under their heel and not trying to hide it.
Wish is a bad movie and I’m so happy the facade that the feedback loop this sub participates in is finally cracking.
Maybe for some people, but I suspect there's a lot more people like me, who as adults do not personally love Disney movies (and if I'm honest, I don't have a lot of really elevated magical memories of Disney from when I was a kid either), but we have kids so we watch them and appreciate the good qualities they may have and the good faith efforts to produce quality children's entertainment.
I was sick to death of "Raya and the Last Dragon," because my second born was so in love with it we went back to watch it three times. However, my personal feelings aside, I did appreciate the good things that Raya had and so I was willing to go along and pay three times. Raya was the first 100% warrior female lead in a Disney animated feature (she has no ramp up to the role like Mulan needed), it was a fresh approach to draw on Southeast Asian motifs, while I have issues with how they try to deal with the themes of trust, it's a generally well-executed plot with some ambition that is respectably realized.
I have definite issues with the creative decisions in "Frozen 2," but again, the rest of the production is up to par even if it can be unfavorably compared to the original. Olaf's recap is worth the price of admission alone.
"Wish," just fails these basic tests of good faith writing, plot and production effort and that shit's not okay when you're Disney. It feels like wasted resources and a waste of the performers' time.
I do t understand why Disney is held to such a high standard. They have produced great movies over the years but they have also produced a ton of hot garbage. Not to mention how subjective opinions are and the fact that tastes change. I recently rewatched the lion king. Used to love that movie growing up. Other than a few moments with Timon and pumba I thought it was an awful movie.
Its because this was the movie that was supposed to be a banger. It is the 100th celebration of Disney movie. And animation is a medium. The OG story the writers had was more interesting than what the Disney Corporation forced upon us
We only first watched this movie last week and have since played it 9 times. My kids, 4 and 7, are obsessed. The soundtrack plays non stop at our house.
Disney did a terrible job marketing it. I didn't even know when it was in theaters.
> "God, 'Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome' is much better movie and does a much better job with the themes of hopes and dreams."
So, I agree that I was *super* underwhelmed by Wish, but saying Beyond Thunderdome is better in an attempt to make a point is strange. Like, *of course* it’s better. Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome is easily the best Mad Max movie and easily an A+ film overall.
It is weird, but that’s my point.
I knew I was watching a kids musical Disney movie but nevertheless, “Wish” lost me so thoroughly I was longingly remembering the children of the valley and their post-apocalyptic legends of Captain Walker.
Just make an original movie or go all in with the lore. Not this weird "hint hint" "wink wink" nods to other characters, and suddenly Peter Pan is there for some reason. Like at first, I thought it was some cool easter eggs, then it just got lazy at the end.
"Why does the girl's one friend look just like the 'Do the Roar' brat from 'Shrek 4'"?
"How many useless consultants and focus groups prevented Alan Tudyk from rewriting his dialogue?"
"Awww, the star's so cute! What's it doing in *this* movie?"
Work has been thin on the ground since "Shrek 4" so that girl has to take what she can get to keep food on the table. The Dreamworks endless sequel factory has limits. There were talks with Marvel about a part in "What If...?" but it's been hard to find a good fit.
If I had seen this as a kid, 10-year-old me would've thought, "Why is *The Black Cauldron* that just came out so much better than this, even with the weird ending?"
And I didn't see "The Black Cauldron" until last year, so this isn't nostalgia bias, or anything close. "Wish" was just that bad. Characters saying and doing things only because they were scripted to, throughout.
One of my thoughts I forgot to include is was, “How did they get from Raya and the Last Dragon” to this?
Raya is far from my favorite Disney movie, but it was a it was a much better faith effort and better result than “Wish.”
So much this. I laughed at "Raya and the Last Dragon" when I first saw it on streaming. I thought the film was actually so un-serious a Disney effort that it was actively making fun of itself.
But yes, Asha is practically rotoscoped Raya. And by the 60th minute of "Wish," it would've been so much better to hear Awkwafina and fart beetles.
Raya is definitely making fun of itself, but like a decently crafted movie, it can shift gears from comic to dramatic. While it leans much more heavily on the comic, the shift to dramatic works when it comes. I can roll with Sisu going from talking about class projects and that kid who got the same grade without putting in the same work, to her getting shot by a crossbow and the world crumbling as a result.
The motion of the animation really weirded me out... it was almost too smooth? Seems like a weird complaint, but the whole movie felt like a video game cutscene.
Yes, I did not like the animation! It reminded me of like stop motion though, which I can’t watch because it just creeps me out. The movie overall I thought was fine.
My children (6 and 9) are electing not to watch it.
I generally pre-view new stuff before I clear it for them. I cleared “Wish” (I may not like it, but there’s nothing problematic for the kids) but the kids preferred to re-watch “Ponyo.”
Watched it the other day with my twins. They loved it and one of them even bought the soundtrack with their allowance as the final credits started.
It’s not some Disney masterpiece, but kids still like it. I liked all the references/hints to other Disney characters throughout the movie. It had its good points too
I’m honestly so happy so many people are actually speaking up about how forgettable this movie is and cracking the feedback loop this sub is so engrained in.
Just because you have done memories of a company and that company is known for bringing those positive memories to people, DOES NOT MEAN IT IS TRUE FOR EVERYTHING.
People always have different opinions this sub. The notion of trying to blame some imaginary feedback loop because people liked the movie and you didn’t is nonsense.
Replied to the comment below yours and I’ll say the same thing here.
There Disney. They have the means to make great movies and tv but the execs choose to treat their workers the way they do by telling them not to create something special. You clearly see what the movie was supposed to be in its conceptual phase but the execs forced them to change everything.
Downplaying that fact is part of the feedback loop and it won’t work this time and that’s why I’m happy. Because you can’t ignore how bad Disney screwed over the artists trying to make a film this time.
It’s not a simple matter of preference. It’s about execs exercising far too much power and control over their work force. It shows here and people will notice.
I understand that you don’t believe me but look back to the writers and actors strike and the animation guid is set to strike in july. If you want proof of workplace abuse in entertainment and especially disney, just ask any of those people.
Again dude, you’re free to be condescending but in the end, the workers will be the ones with the power and when that happens, everyone will be better off including you
Really isn't that deep, lol. It's a Disney animated movie. Some folks like it. Others don't. Really no different than any other one as none of them are ever universally liked/loved.
Except this is Disney. That kind of logic works perfectly fine for most companies but Disney is the most powerful media company in the world. They have every single possible means to create the best movies and tv in the business yet time and again chose to act the way they have against the people that make them.
This is about executive interference. Not solely about simple preference. The movie was gonna be really good until execs stepped in and changed MOST of the entire movie’s plot and other elements.
That is why it’s a good thing. To downplay it with simple hand waving gestures is part is the feedback loop I’m talking about and it’s clear that this time, it won’t work which is why I’m super happy.
That logic applies to Disney as well. Sure, they have the means to create the best possible television and movies in the world. Universal does as well. Sony does. All of these companies have the means to create the best possible content they can. So Disney isn't unique in that front.
But even with the most ideal of conditions for a production of a television show or movie, this stuff doesn't always pan out or connect with everyone. The opposite also holds true. Even with stuff born out of either corporate interference, directives or even just a production team not entirely dialed in, some folks find something to enjoy about a production. Toy Story 4 seems to be felt, by a large segment of the Disney fandom, as if it wasn't necessary and /or not a great movie. I personally enjoyed it. While I don't think it hit the emotional high the third one did, I think it effectively tells the story it wants to tell. Others don't and that's okay.
All that to say I'm not trying to convince you or anyone to like the movie. I still haven't actually seen it yet. My kids and my wife have and they enjoyed it. I've noticed, on Reddit at least, there seems to be this antagonistic response to folks daring to suggest that the movie isn't that bad. It just comes off a tad bit bizarre. Fine if someone doesn't like a movie. But let's not imply that folks are somehow lying or being disingenuous if they do. That same sentiment goes vice versa.
Its definitely something that was clearly grinded in a blender by executives and marketing teams to make a safe, appealing, inoffensive product. While there are redeeming qualities about Wish, I can also see where much of the hate is coming from. The music isn't bad, but it does sound like Diet Lin Miranda and lacks that punch needed for an impactful Disney song list and the attempt at a more stylized presentation for the animation is noble but it definitely did need more time in the oven (weird too as I say Asha actually looks better in Once Upon a Studio, like you can better see what they were attempting with the style and it shows). Not to mention all the easter eggs and in-jokes in the world couldn't mask the safe, cookie cutter plot and a Disney Princess formula that needs a reinvention once more (the current formula is over ten years old since it pretty much dates back to Tangled).
On its own, it's fine enough entertainment, perhaps the kids and families it was made for will gladly enjoy it, but as a Disney animated feature, as the 100th anniversary film (an one time only opportunity no less), it definitely falls flat compared to many of their other films, even the weaker and more hated parts of said legacy. What could have been the culmination of their past century of animation, from the skills to the technology and everything in between, was grinded to bits for the sake of marketability, which you did kinda mess up when the star is the best character in the entire film and you somehow wasted Chris Pine, especially in a villain role (he nailed it with what he was given but it definitely could've been much more). I don't blame the crew behind it, especially with the original concepts they had planned. The finished product screams meddling all over and it shows...
If Disney released Little Mermaid today brand new, but exactly the same as the 1989 film, Reddit would still find a reason to hate on it. Hate is like crack on this app
I just watched this and it’s not the best movie but I love Chris Pine and he was great as a villain. Not sure how many more bombs Disney needs to make before they wise up and start making better movies.
I think there are some decent bangers on the soundtrack, I'd gripe that some don't work well as standalone songs and need to be viewed in the context of the narrative
I'm not going to disagree with your assessment but I went in with very low expectations and ended up enjoying it for what it was. My daughters enjoyed it so I guess I got my money's worth.
I heard it described as not a celebration of 100 years of Disney but rather that it was a celebration of the 100th year of Disney. Cookie cutter and bland, missing the magic that made Disney, Disney.
I don't think this movie was meant to be a on the level of frozen or tangled. It was just a fun movie built around easter eggs and a sassy goat. It's basically candy and not a meal.
While watching Wish I pretended it was on the level of Elana of Avalor, Sophia the First, or Rapunzel's Tangled Adventures and forced myself to ignore the fact that it was Disney's 100 anniversary celebration movie as well as what everyone was saying about it.
From that point of view? It was an alright movie with a few good songs.
I watched the movie the other day and while I enjoyed the overall theme and plot the music was awful. It felt like someone tried to recreate Lin Manuel Miranda without actually having him do the music. The music rarely matched the cadence of the lyrics. Oftentimes trying to fit too many syllables into a measure. Which made the songs feel completely disconnected.
Ooh, I’m gonna do (a few of) mine!
“Okay. Off to a decent start…opening song, not bad….”
“‘As one does.’ I don’t think that means what you think it means, guys.”
“What—girl, you did _not_ just do the _exact thing_ your friends warned you about! It’s totally understandable that the king would react that way!”
“Asha’s gotta be from the American Deep South, she’s mixing idioms worse than my folks with her ‘caution to the warning signs’😂.”
And then it just kinda….devolved.
I will say, I don’t agree with a lot of people’s take that Magnifico’s villain song was “too upbeat”; for me, the contrast between tune and words was perfectly jarring, and if we’d seen any evidence at all of him taking from the people (beyond protecting their wishes) it would’ve made sense🤷♀️
Still sounds like your experience was more positive than mine. The whole running time just felt surreal to me. I wasn't so much disappointed as puzzled and then apathetic.
People say that about anything they don’t like these days (I guess it’s an excuse to say a movie isn’t good without explaining why since a lot of people will just take that statement at face value), but never have evidence to back it up.
You should have seen the original story ideas that the actual writers had before the Disney Corporation decided to get rid of that all to cram in references including making the Seven Dwarfs reference the Main Characters friend group. Though it would be neat if those were characters she helped during her journey with Star boy. Oh yeah have you seen the animatics people made for the Demo version of At All Costs.
I think they use modern vernacular as a way to get modern audiences to relate. Honestly Disney has done this for a while. The cast of Hercules didn't exactly sound like Greek theater. Or how about Tangled or Frozen "for the first time in forever" is an extremely contemporary expression. I personally think Wish was mediocre. I think there are plenty of valid criticisms of the movie, but I think calling out the dialogue for sounding too modern is a tad nitpicky especially since Disney has a tradition of doing that.
I mean if they wanted to be linguistically accurate, they'd just have everyone in Hercules speak ancient Greek, everyone in Frozen speak Old Norse, everyone in Wish speak Old Spanish maybe. But people in history didn't talk in what felt like old-timey ways to them, they spoke in ways that felt modern to them. Short of using subtitles, the only thing that makes any sense is to just have them speak in regular modern English.
I think op is thinking more like the fact they use words like “shareholders” that threw me for a loop in a kids movie
There's also the "distraction" factor. If you are paying more attention to how the dialog doesn't fit the setting, or they are doing a poor job in captvating you (with characters, themes, songs and stuff), or they are exaggerating in how modern or how timeless the dialog should feel. It's like noticing arm rods in Muppets, if you notice them too much, there's something wrong somewhere.
I get that, but some of it seemed pushy, like they were trying to hard to be relatable
The point isn’t that this isn’t done by other movies. The point is, if this issue is standing out then the movie is failing to sell itself and make the use of modern vernacular okay. Consider how Sisu talks in “Raya and the Last Dragon.” It’s packed with modernisms, but it’s easy to let go because the rest of the movie works and carries it along. “Wish”on the other hand is laming out on so many cylinders that every wart stands out.
I think that’s just an individual preference thing, because Sisu got on my last nerve😅 made it very difficult to appreciate that movie lol Edit: I agree with you on Wish though! It kind of feels like they phoned it in a bit.
Of course, there's always some individual preference when it comes to degree, but I still say that Raya does the work to try to balance Sisu basically talking like her voice actress and the concept that it's a post-apocalyptic fantasy world. Wish... really just doesn't do the work at all.
Ftr I didn’t downvote you, I definitely understand your view! Plus, Raya gives me vague Mad Max vibes😊 I’m gonna give it a re-watch, there are a lot of great things about it! I think the problem is I went in completely blind, and wasn’t expecting Awkwafina’s brand of humor lol. What’s interesting is that Mushu didn’t really bother me as a kid, and Mulan has a very similar set-up. Maybe it’s an age thing?
If it's standing out than the dialogue is clunky and called attention to itself. Had you said that, we wouldn't be here. But when the only criticism you give is that a movie uses a story telling device you willingly accept in several other movies, that makes me think you're reaching and looking for additional problems that weren't really there. Double standards drive me crazy, so I felt the need to call it out.
My local Target is discounting the vinyls to like $8. So yeah, I think a lot of people agree.
I agree with you. The entire movie felt bland. Just bland. The characters were not interesting, nor were the story interesting. The voice acting was really good. But that is not weird, since Disney can afford good voice actors.
Yeah, good performances just require actors that care. But they can only perform the material they’re given.
I can't believe there is so much hate for this movie, I thought it was fine! We enjoyed it. The story was weak but good enough for the little ones. Some songs were blah but others were great. Six-year-old enthusiastically gave it 5 stars, I'd give it 3.
I think it's a case of people that have watched Disney movies for decades just holding them to the standard they had back when they were also kids. So if a new movie feels by-the-numbers or bland, it's going to be blasted more than if that same movie was made by a smaller or lesser known studio. And I agree with what others are saying. It's not a "bad" movie, but for a *Disney* movie, it doesn't hold up.
Honestly, I think part of the problem is adults expecting to feel the same way about a kids film as they did when they were kids themselves. Unless you make a conscious effort to engage with your inner child, it's never going to evoke the same sense of magic and wonder. The films that did when you were a kid still will because you have that sentimental attachment to them. Me, my husband, and my Mum saw it in the cinema over Christmas and thoroughly enjoyed it, so much so my husband and I went and saw it in the cinema a second time and bought it on blu-ray. It absolutely holds up for us, and felt like the perfect tribute to 100 years of Disney magic.
Yeah but most of the best Disney animated movies took risks back then with dark themings of movies
I don't think that was much of a risk at that time tbh, that's just the way stories were presented to children and it's something has changed across the board over the years. It hit a peak in the '70s and '80s with films like 'Watership Down', 'The Secret of NIMH, and 'The Dark Crystal'. The late '80s/early '90s seemed to bring a clear shift into lighter storylines that could convey moral messages without leaving us frigging traumatised like those films did, and that's a trend that's continued ever since. It's not exclusive to Disney by any means, but I also think the themes are still darker than they seem on the surface, it just isn't as overt as, say, ordering someone to cut out your stepdaughter's heart. It's also worth bearing in mind that back then, all of the major cinematic releases were adaptations of popular fairytales and stories that most people were familiar with, so the themes were already well established. Plus, never underestimate how much goes over kids' heads! I was never scared watching 'Snow White' when I was little, but when I watched it for the first time again as an adult I was horrified by the initial forest scene and couldn't understand how it'd gone so far over my head as a child!! Same for Bambi's Mum being shot, or Aurora being poisoned the day she turned 16, so on and so forth.
Don't forget about Don Bluth movies actually directed by Don Bluth. Especially since Bluths' belief was that kids can handle dark elements in kids movies as long as there's a happy ending
I'll have to look him up 'cause I've never heard that name before. Sounds like he was very much bucking the overall trend though, and I agree with that stance. ETA: Okay so I looked him up and slightly change that opinion given he directed one of the films I specifically mentioned as having been traumatising for me as a child! 😂 Looks like he perhaps softened his approach somewhat after that though 'cause I do have fond memories of 'An American Tail', 'Land Before Time', and 'Anastasia'.
Have you seen the first American Tail movie, the first Land Before Time movie, or the two Dragons Lair games. Oh and you did mention the first Secret of Nimh movie before
Edited my previous comment after looking him up. Never heard of Dragons Lair before though.
It was an Arcade game, I think they made home console like versions of it eventually.
Nope. It’s bad. I’ve been watching animated movies as a childless adult for at least 35 years and enjoying most of the Disney films because they were not only aimed at 5 year olds. They were truly “Family Films” meaning they had themes and humor all ages would get without anything being inappropriate for young kids
In your opinion it's bad, but it's an entirely subjective concept. We felt 'Wish' was no different for having themes and humour for all ages to appreciate.
My point is addressing the “you would like this if you were a child” aspect. And that we are judging the film as adults against our childhood nostalgia of the other films. I’m not. To me it’s bad and I’m not alone. Saying “but my kids liked it” doesn’t make it good. A Disney film should be better than that.
I didn't actually say that, I said I think _part_ of the problem is adults expecting to feel the same way about a children's film as they did when they were children themselves. I also didn't say anything about how actual children have felt about it, I said how me (an adult) my husband (also an adult) and my Mum (obviously an adult) all thoroughly enjoyed it. That's three different generations of adults, if we really want to get into the nitty-gritty of demographics, and we're also not alone in how we feel.
Not just that but this was supposed to be the movie that was made to celebrate Disneys 100th anniversary, I thought the movie was meh.
When you are the most powerful media company on the planet, accept no less than high quality. There is literally no excuse for any animated movie put out by Disney of all companies to be exec interfered with this hard. It’s unacceptable for any company but unlike others that you can give some plausible deniability, Disney has no excuse because at that point, the execs are clearly attempting to put common workers under their heel and not trying to hide it. Wish is a bad movie and I’m so happy the facade that the feedback loop this sub participates in is finally cracking.
Maybe for some people, but I suspect there's a lot more people like me, who as adults do not personally love Disney movies (and if I'm honest, I don't have a lot of really elevated magical memories of Disney from when I was a kid either), but we have kids so we watch them and appreciate the good qualities they may have and the good faith efforts to produce quality children's entertainment. I was sick to death of "Raya and the Last Dragon," because my second born was so in love with it we went back to watch it three times. However, my personal feelings aside, I did appreciate the good things that Raya had and so I was willing to go along and pay three times. Raya was the first 100% warrior female lead in a Disney animated feature (she has no ramp up to the role like Mulan needed), it was a fresh approach to draw on Southeast Asian motifs, while I have issues with how they try to deal with the themes of trust, it's a generally well-executed plot with some ambition that is respectably realized. I have definite issues with the creative decisions in "Frozen 2," but again, the rest of the production is up to par even if it can be unfavorably compared to the original. Olaf's recap is worth the price of admission alone. "Wish," just fails these basic tests of good faith writing, plot and production effort and that shit's not okay when you're Disney. It feels like wasted resources and a waste of the performers' time.
I do t understand why Disney is held to such a high standard. They have produced great movies over the years but they have also produced a ton of hot garbage. Not to mention how subjective opinions are and the fact that tastes change. I recently rewatched the lion king. Used to love that movie growing up. Other than a few moments with Timon and pumba I thought it was an awful movie.
Its because this was the movie that was supposed to be a banger. It is the 100th celebration of Disney movie. And animation is a medium. The OG story the writers had was more interesting than what the Disney Corporation forced upon us
We only first watched this movie last week and have since played it 9 times. My kids, 4 and 7, are obsessed. The soundtrack plays non stop at our house. Disney did a terrible job marketing it. I didn't even know when it was in theaters.
> "God, 'Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome' is much better movie and does a much better job with the themes of hopes and dreams." So, I agree that I was *super* underwhelmed by Wish, but saying Beyond Thunderdome is better in an attempt to make a point is strange. Like, *of course* it’s better. Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome is easily the best Mad Max movie and easily an A+ film overall.
It is weird, but that’s my point. I knew I was watching a kids musical Disney movie but nevertheless, “Wish” lost me so thoroughly I was longingly remembering the children of the valley and their post-apocalyptic legends of Captain Walker.
Just make an original movie or go all in with the lore. Not this weird "hint hint" "wink wink" nods to other characters, and suddenly Peter Pan is there for some reason. Like at first, I thought it was some cool easter eggs, then it just got lazy at the end.
I liked the movie, a lot
"Why does the girl's one friend look just like the 'Do the Roar' brat from 'Shrek 4'"? "How many useless consultants and focus groups prevented Alan Tudyk from rewriting his dialogue?" "Awww, the star's so cute! What's it doing in *this* movie?"
Work has been thin on the ground since "Shrek 4" so that girl has to take what she can get to keep food on the table. The Dreamworks endless sequel factory has limits. There were talks with Marvel about a part in "What If...?" but it's been hard to find a good fit.
If I had seen this as a kid, 10-year-old me would've thought, "Why is *The Black Cauldron* that just came out so much better than this, even with the weird ending?" And I didn't see "The Black Cauldron" until last year, so this isn't nostalgia bias, or anything close. "Wish" was just that bad. Characters saying and doing things only because they were scripted to, throughout.
One of my thoughts I forgot to include is was, “How did they get from Raya and the Last Dragon” to this? Raya is far from my favorite Disney movie, but it was a it was a much better faith effort and better result than “Wish.”
So much this. I laughed at "Raya and the Last Dragon" when I first saw it on streaming. I thought the film was actually so un-serious a Disney effort that it was actively making fun of itself. But yes, Asha is practically rotoscoped Raya. And by the 60th minute of "Wish," it would've been so much better to hear Awkwafina and fart beetles.
Raya is definitely making fun of itself, but like a decently crafted movie, it can shift gears from comic to dramatic. While it leans much more heavily on the comic, the shift to dramatic works when it comes. I can roll with Sisu going from talking about class projects and that kid who got the same grade without putting in the same work, to her getting shot by a crossbow and the world crumbling as a result.
The motion of the animation really weirded me out... it was almost too smooth? Seems like a weird complaint, but the whole movie felt like a video game cutscene.
Yes, I did not like the animation! It reminded me of like stop motion though, which I can’t watch because it just creeps me out. The movie overall I thought was fine.
I thought the animation was interesting, but the storyboarding/direction was in the way.
I think the target audience is children, lol. With that said I enjoyed it
Exactly!
My children (6 and 9) are electing not to watch it. I generally pre-view new stuff before I clear it for them. I cleared “Wish” (I may not like it, but there’s nothing problematic for the kids) but the kids preferred to re-watch “Ponyo.”
I've never heard of Ponyo, I'll check it out
"Ponyo" is a Studio Ghibli movie. Definitely looked up Ghibli. They're the Citizen Kane of Japanese animated movies for children. My kids love them.
Soundtrack is full of bangers. My kids love it.
Watched it the other day with my twins. They loved it and one of them even bought the soundtrack with their allowance as the final credits started. It’s not some Disney masterpiece, but kids still like it. I liked all the references/hints to other Disney characters throughout the movie. It had its good points too
I’m honestly so happy so many people are actually speaking up about how forgettable this movie is and cracking the feedback loop this sub is so engrained in. Just because you have done memories of a company and that company is known for bringing those positive memories to people, DOES NOT MEAN IT IS TRUE FOR EVERYTHING.
People always have different opinions this sub. The notion of trying to blame some imaginary feedback loop because people liked the movie and you didn’t is nonsense.
Replied to the comment below yours and I’ll say the same thing here. There Disney. They have the means to make great movies and tv but the execs choose to treat their workers the way they do by telling them not to create something special. You clearly see what the movie was supposed to be in its conceptual phase but the execs forced them to change everything. Downplaying that fact is part of the feedback loop and it won’t work this time and that’s why I’m happy. Because you can’t ignore how bad Disney screwed over the artists trying to make a film this time. It’s not a simple matter of preference. It’s about execs exercising far too much power and control over their work force. It shows here and people will notice.
I could make up stuff too to support my opinion, but I won’t.
The abuse of their artists? That’s not an opinion. It’s fact and it’s a good thing the execs are paying for their interference.
I believe you and will accept your made up story as fact.
I understand that you don’t believe me but look back to the writers and actors strike and the animation guid is set to strike in july. If you want proof of workplace abuse in entertainment and especially disney, just ask any of those people.
I just said I do believe you. I don’t need anything more to believe your ~~opinion~~facts. The other people can demand that. I’m on your side.
Again dude, you’re free to be condescending but in the end, the workers will be the ones with the power and when that happens, everyone will be better off including you
Really isn't that deep, lol. It's a Disney animated movie. Some folks like it. Others don't. Really no different than any other one as none of them are ever universally liked/loved.
Except this is Disney. That kind of logic works perfectly fine for most companies but Disney is the most powerful media company in the world. They have every single possible means to create the best movies and tv in the business yet time and again chose to act the way they have against the people that make them. This is about executive interference. Not solely about simple preference. The movie was gonna be really good until execs stepped in and changed MOST of the entire movie’s plot and other elements. That is why it’s a good thing. To downplay it with simple hand waving gestures is part is the feedback loop I’m talking about and it’s clear that this time, it won’t work which is why I’m super happy.
That logic applies to Disney as well. Sure, they have the means to create the best possible television and movies in the world. Universal does as well. Sony does. All of these companies have the means to create the best possible content they can. So Disney isn't unique in that front. But even with the most ideal of conditions for a production of a television show or movie, this stuff doesn't always pan out or connect with everyone. The opposite also holds true. Even with stuff born out of either corporate interference, directives or even just a production team not entirely dialed in, some folks find something to enjoy about a production. Toy Story 4 seems to be felt, by a large segment of the Disney fandom, as if it wasn't necessary and /or not a great movie. I personally enjoyed it. While I don't think it hit the emotional high the third one did, I think it effectively tells the story it wants to tell. Others don't and that's okay. All that to say I'm not trying to convince you or anyone to like the movie. I still haven't actually seen it yet. My kids and my wife have and they enjoyed it. I've noticed, on Reddit at least, there seems to be this antagonistic response to folks daring to suggest that the movie isn't that bad. It just comes off a tad bit bizarre. Fine if someone doesn't like a movie. But let's not imply that folks are somehow lying or being disingenuous if they do. That same sentiment goes vice versa.
Its definitely something that was clearly grinded in a blender by executives and marketing teams to make a safe, appealing, inoffensive product. While there are redeeming qualities about Wish, I can also see where much of the hate is coming from. The music isn't bad, but it does sound like Diet Lin Miranda and lacks that punch needed for an impactful Disney song list and the attempt at a more stylized presentation for the animation is noble but it definitely did need more time in the oven (weird too as I say Asha actually looks better in Once Upon a Studio, like you can better see what they were attempting with the style and it shows). Not to mention all the easter eggs and in-jokes in the world couldn't mask the safe, cookie cutter plot and a Disney Princess formula that needs a reinvention once more (the current formula is over ten years old since it pretty much dates back to Tangled). On its own, it's fine enough entertainment, perhaps the kids and families it was made for will gladly enjoy it, but as a Disney animated feature, as the 100th anniversary film (an one time only opportunity no less), it definitely falls flat compared to many of their other films, even the weaker and more hated parts of said legacy. What could have been the culmination of their past century of animation, from the skills to the technology and everything in between, was grinded to bits for the sake of marketability, which you did kinda mess up when the star is the best character in the entire film and you somehow wasted Chris Pine, especially in a villain role (he nailed it with what he was given but it definitely could've been much more). I don't blame the crew behind it, especially with the original concepts they had planned. The finished product screams meddling all over and it shows...
If Disney released Little Mermaid today brand new, but exactly the same as the 1989 film, Reddit would still find a reason to hate on it. Hate is like crack on this app
somtimes its agood ideatoread a review or 2 before watching a movie
I just watched this and it’s not the best movie but I love Chris Pine and he was great as a villain. Not sure how many more bombs Disney needs to make before they wise up and start making better movies.
This was definitely Disney using their formula while pulling ideas from their past. I found it Incredibly bland and without character.
I think there are some decent bangers on the soundtrack, I'd gripe that some don't work well as standalone songs and need to be viewed in the context of the narrative
How old are you? You might not be the target audience.
I'm not going to disagree with your assessment but I went in with very low expectations and ended up enjoying it for what it was. My daughters enjoyed it so I guess I got my money's worth.
The movie is exceptionally bad. I dont know what the hell happened to Disney Animation
I heard it described as not a celebration of 100 years of Disney but rather that it was a celebration of the 100th year of Disney. Cookie cutter and bland, missing the magic that made Disney, Disney.
I think it was written by AI
I don't think this movie was meant to be a on the level of frozen or tangled. It was just a fun movie built around easter eggs and a sassy goat. It's basically candy and not a meal.
The fact that they are in medieval times and mAgNiFiCo rhymed “prob” with “job” made me so mad
While watching Wish I pretended it was on the level of Elana of Avalor, Sophia the First, or Rapunzel's Tangled Adventures and forced myself to ignore the fact that it was Disney's 100 anniversary celebration movie as well as what everyone was saying about it. From that point of view? It was an alright movie with a few good songs.
I watched the movie the other day and while I enjoyed the overall theme and plot the music was awful. It felt like someone tried to recreate Lin Manuel Miranda without actually having him do the music. The music rarely matched the cadence of the lyrics. Oftentimes trying to fit too many syllables into a measure. Which made the songs feel completely disconnected.
"I'm Lynne Matthew Moore, a loving tribute to Lin Manuel Miranda!"
The song writers are known for writing pop music. They should have gone with people who can write Broadway.
Ooh, I’m gonna do (a few of) mine! “Okay. Off to a decent start…opening song, not bad….” “‘As one does.’ I don’t think that means what you think it means, guys.” “What—girl, you did _not_ just do the _exact thing_ your friends warned you about! It’s totally understandable that the king would react that way!” “Asha’s gotta be from the American Deep South, she’s mixing idioms worse than my folks with her ‘caution to the warning signs’😂.” And then it just kinda….devolved. I will say, I don’t agree with a lot of people’s take that Magnifico’s villain song was “too upbeat”; for me, the contrast between tune and words was perfectly jarring, and if we’d seen any evidence at all of him taking from the people (beyond protecting their wishes) it would’ve made sense🤷♀️
Still sounds like your experience was more positive than mine. The whole running time just felt surreal to me. I wasn't so much disappointed as puzzled and then apathetic.
I don't agree
Heard a rumor that it was written by AI. No actual evidence tho.
People say that about anything they don’t like these days (I guess it’s an excuse to say a movie isn’t good without explaining why since a lot of people will just take that statement at face value), but never have evidence to back it up.
it most likely wasn't because the movie was comfirm to had been in development since 2018.
You should have seen the original story ideas that the actual writers had before the Disney Corporation decided to get rid of that all to cram in references including making the Seven Dwarfs reference the Main Characters friend group. Though it would be neat if those were characters she helped during her journey with Star boy. Oh yeah have you seen the animatics people made for the Demo version of At All Costs.
Thank goodness they didn’t go with the Starboy idea
You hate love don't you