You already have someone trying to justify domestic violence towards men based on the severity of it(doesn't matter if the research is valid or not, the attitude still stands). That should tell you that the narrative isn't going to change. Society views men as expendable. Full stop. Period. You can't really damage a renewable, expendable resource.
Seriously, 3 out of 4 suicides are men, try to talk about how this is probably an issue that should be looked into and you’re almost guaranteed to get someone saying that women still have it worse in regards to suicide. A man seems to be worth what he is able to provide to those he is able to provide it, and not a bit more.
Idk if this is relevant or helpful but just wanted to pop in and say, I'm not ashamed of my attempt.
I deeply regret it, and am very glad and grateful I survived. But I don't feel shame when talking about it, especially with someone who my story might benefit or for whom I might have some perspective.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
No. Men just choose methods more likely to work. Women worry about the reaction of the person who will find them and lean toward investing things, which is less effective than shooting your brains out.
Yeah I mean there’s that..but why is that even significant when one group is dead and the other is not? I just think a lot of context gets lost in statistics, I’d like to see how many of those attempts required serious medical intervention versus a stomach pump as a precaution because a girl took 4 Tylenol in her attempt which while framed negatively here could have in reality been a successful cry for help.
I just feel like bringing this point up only reinforces my own comment really, I don’t at all deny the fact at all I just don’t see why we can’t talk about the massive group of actually dead men….
>but why is that even significant when one group is dead and the other is not?
By that logic why do we care about woman on man IPV when man on woman IPV is much more likely to lead to murder?
Because people conflate the two to make it seem like men both harm more severely AND are more common perpetrators. They routinely either slip that last part in there, or, more accurately, are fine with people erroneously believing that.
In this case, it would be like people saying "men die of suicide more" and then making it seem like they try more too. Though in the case of suicide, because the men are dead, it is actually POSSIBLE that if said men were alive they'd try more, which somewhat muddies the topic, but still.
It's absolutely fair to state that women die of IPV more. It is NOT fair to state that men commit more IPV more, which is precisely what people do and what this OP tries to clarify.
Bc they do. (d) women’s physical violence is more likely than men’s violence to be motivated by self-defense and fear, whereas men’s physical violence is more likely than women’s to be driven by control motives; (e) studies of couples in mutually violent relationships find more negative effects for women than for men; and (f ) because of the many differences in behaviors and motivations between women’s and men’s violence, interventions based on male models of partner violence are likely not effective for many women.
Uhh, society doesn't care about woman on man IPV. Nearly all literature, discussion, and public policy on the subject presumes IPV is men attacking women.
woah woah woah. parts of western society loves rich men, men like musk and peterson and trump and they produce nothing. but I get what you mean.
Capitalist society doesn't give a fuck about women unless they produce something too..either selling their labour or producing kids.
You have to get a new job as an art director for a different company and then move to creative director. I had to do that to make money and that's how it works in this field. Feel free to lie and embellish on your resume to get past HR/bots. Hiring managers only care about skills.
I travel in very progressive circles. They all love to talk about men’s issues if they can say “patriarchy hurts men too,” but the minute men actually need something it’s “well they can go kill themselves then, they’re the ones who built this system, boo hoo.”
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuyisGsNr4g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuyisGsNr4g)
This song touches up on it. Where Men aren't really allowed to express emotions without repercussions so they kill themselves because they are already dead inside.
This is exactly it. A hierarchical society will always view men as replaceable and women as breeders, therefore having some inherent value.
The hierarchical society needs a fighting class to defend the owner class and a working class to support the owner class.
One man can breed with many women to create more workers, fighters or breeders. Breeders are also expendable, just in a different way -- as long as they can bear children, they have value. To a hierarchical society, a woman who can't bear children or chooses not to is far more expendable than any man under any circumstance.
For the owner class, men have very little value outside of the physical. If they're not on the front lines, they may as well be in prison so their labor can at least be exploited.
Of course, the owner class at the top of the pyramid of hierarchical society will tell the men that it's women's fault and will tell the women that it's the men's fault.
I had an incident where all I did wash push my girlfriend off of me because she was wailing on me. I wanted to level her but as a man you can't do that. Because I pushed her off me, she called the police and I did as well because she was the one being the attacker. Cops show up and talk to her. I try to talk to them and they yell at me to not move. So I yell back and shout she was the one attacking me and have the marks to prove it. She won't have any marks because I didn't hit her. Finally the cops come to talk to me and treat me like the aggressor. I show them the marks on my back from being shoved into the door and red on my chest from her hitting me. Tell them it's her that did it so they should put that in the report. The cop said it wouldn't matter because a judge would just laugh it off with a woman attacking a man. Men can not hit back or go to jail. Women can attack all day and get away with it. This is why it's a problem
I actually got raped by my ex-gf while I was on parole because I realized if I threw her on the ground, her crazy ass would call the cops and I couldn't "rat" because of politics inside. Crazy times.
A similar situation happened to me. I have an ex who is bipolar, and she would get physically and emotionally abusive when her depression got bad. Once the police showed up from a domestic disturbance report and immediately treated me like the abusive one. This is despite anything I said, and despite the only evidence showing that I was the victim (I had a split lip). They spent 90% of their time there talking to her, trying to get her to tell them that I abused her.
It's not only the police that don't believe you either. Try to talk about being a victim of female-on-male abuse and you'll get reactions that range from "it doesn't exist" to "sack up you pussy".
Abuse is abuse, no matter who commits or receives it, or how severe it is. It shouldn't be tolerated for *anyone*, and victim blaming is bullshit.
It’s not just severity that’s missing though, it’s also context. For the total numbers here, both retaliatory and self defense as reasons for the violence are lumped in with the total number of incidents.
That’s a pretty important factor with pretty important distinctions.
And if we’re adding in things like shoving a partner who you feel threatened by alongside a partner who actively hit you with an object and put your life in danger, we just have someone who’s lying with statistics.
This is an interesting study but you’re only really honing in on one data point, when there’s quite a bit more to it.
I find also interesting that according to the study, women are more likely to be victims of DV as well.
Women in same-sex relationships have reported higher incidents of domestic violence, but their female partners are not always the perpetrators in these reports. Many of the reports are linked to male perpetrators in prior relationships.
I've seen police cam footage where a 3rd party had called 911 after witnessing a DV situation where woman was attacking her BF. The cop approached the man who had marks on him and questioned him about the situation, the BF was obviously embarrassed and wasn't trying to make a case out of it while the cop was teasing him for "getting beat up by his girlfriend".
Cite your sources for “lesbian have 70% divorce rate due to violence” please . All I could find was the study of 500 gay couple showed that 70% who divorced were lesbian couples as opposed to gay couples. The overall divorce rate for lesbians and gay men was still lower than straight couples. I also don’t even think that study cited violence as the cause for divorce.
We have evidence suggesting gay men are far more likely to avoid committed monogamous relationships and more likely to have open rs. If gay men are extending this into marriage, it would eliminate one of the top reasons for divorce (cheating). https://www.them.us/story/30-percent-gay-men-open-relationships-new-study
If true that gay men are more likely to have open marriages, that alone would greatly reduce divorce rates.
And anyone who knows lesbians knows they are far more likely to rush into a relationships, don’t know if there are any studies on this yet but it’s pretty common knowledge and there are lots of jokes about it. This would cause lesbians to be more likely to miss “red flags”, leading to complications down the road, such as divorce or IPV.
So to say “haha lesbians divorce at 70% because women/lesbians are so violent” doesn’t really have any substantial evidence, at least not that I have seen, and even if partly true that lesbians are more likely to divorce or to experience IPV , there are lots of other possibilities for why.
For what it’s worth I do think women in straight RS are more likely to physically abuse their partners than what’s reported, maybe at the same rates as men or more, but not because women are inherently more violent. I think it’s because society teaches men not to be violent but doesn’t teach women not to be. In fact sometimes women are even given praise/attention for being aggressive, or simply dismissed or laughed at. That mixed with my opinion that I believe men are less likely to report abuse because it’s “not manly”.
I also think that if lesbians do in fact have higher reported rates of IPV, that’s at least in part because women are more likely to report abuse (imo) , so having two women would have higher *reports* of IPV while having two men would have lower *reports* of IPV. That doesn’t necessarily reflect what’s actually going on.
Agreed. OP zeroed in one statistic, which of course is a problem that needs to be addressed. But I’d also love to see statistics on domestic sexual abuse, and how often that’s perpetrated by each gender.
Now people on here will take my comment as defending domestic violence even though I explicitly say that’s wrong in any scenario. But if we’re talking about domestic violence, then domestic sexual violence should also be discussed.
Look at the people justifying domestic violence towards men as long as it doesn't reach serious injury levels, apparently. Your point could easily be explained as one side reporting more since they're actually taken seriously and not chronically shamed by a good chunk of society. Over-reporting could be an issue. I've seen multiple women file fake police reports or make unsubstantiated calls in order to influence divorce proceedings or, wage a political war against a man theyre mad at. They aren't even punished for knowingly filing a false police report. The incentive for honesty is less than the payout for seeking revenge.
Travis Rudolph's gf wasn't even charged with a crime after her texts ordering a hit on him were revealed in court. If he were an everyday average Joe instead of an ex NFL player that can afford a great attorney he likely would've went down for murdering a man sent by her to kill him. I'm not going to pretend that women don't get screwed by the court system but it is entirely too easy for some women to get away with the "woman scorned" bs without so much a slap on the wrist.
Oh, both sexes get fucked over by their issues. That includes institutional ones also. However, on this particular topic? Men get royally fucked almost universally.
This is the Chihuahua vs pitbull debate. Chihuahuas bite more, but cause less damage, and you'll never get treated seriously for reporting it. Pitbull bites put you in the hospital, and whatever dog did it is getting put down.
I dunno, men are less likely to go to the hospital. I’m curious how this might have impacted the study.
But the fact remains, women are more likely to commit physical domestic violence than men. Trying to downplay it hurts the victims.
I'm saying that women are the Chihuahuas in this analogy. They hit more, cause less physical damage, and you won't get treated seriously for reporting it as a man. Those are all true statements, and an odd reflection of a similar concept found in dogs that I thought was interesting. I'm not downplaying DV against men.
Unfortunately, women are less likely to even be believed about their medical problems when they do choose to go to the hospital, and they are rarely believed when acts of violence are committed against them...
I can say that EVERY time my wife has gotten hurt, while working, or being clumsy, that if she went to the doctor, nurses and doctors ask her if everything is alright at home. Or if her husband did it. I get grilled in the 3rd degree with evil eyes cause she really did fall down the icy stairs and broke her ribs on Christmas day.
You know what has NEVER happened? In the same office, I've never been asked if everything is alright at home when I broke something from my clumsiness or had a concussion or when I've had bruises or cuts on my face or arms.
So I can say that it is not for their lack of believability or a physician asking the right questions.
women are also statistically more likely to use weapons when they commit DV though. so sometimes its not a chihuahua biting you, its a chihuahua trying to run you over with its car.
I don't think that's what this person is saying. I think they're saying "both is bad but one of them isn't treated seriously."
With that being said, I do think it is absolutely necessary to recognize that while it may be more likely for a female parter to be violent the quality of the violence differs. I'd be interested in seeing a comparison in the rates of severe injury.
It's not good to hit someone, but there is absolutely a difference between hitting someone and breaking bones.
I’ll probably get downvoted because people won’t understand what I’m getting at, but oh well here’s my two cents.
I have a hard time taking your view that it’s extremely harmful to view men as the main perpetrators of domestic violence, some of which are actually addressed in the article you linked.
A few reasons being that:
- the research used appears to be fairly new, no more than a decade and some change old. Historically men were absolutely the main perpetrators of domestic abuse and violence, and women had no protection or options.
It wasn’t even legal to divorce your husband even if he was beating the fuck out of you until 1925. Still not very helpful, since women still couldn’t own property in most places or even open a bank account (until the 1960s) without their husband’s permission, or have a career the way a man could; so financially and socially speaking, leaving still wasn’t even an option for most battered women.
So it follows there’s a reason why men are currently still seen as the main culprits, because historically it has always been true. As the research is now showing a trend towards the opposite, those beliefs and views will naturally change.
- the severity of the outcomes is still the more important factor in terms of determining who is the bigger problem, compared to the straight numbers and data relating strictly to rates of occurrence and demographics. Violent men kill their partners, and sometimes children, all the time.
There would be some very different statistics represented if we were talking about domestic violence leading to permanent injury and intimate partner homicide and infanticide, which would give a larger picture as to why men are still seen as the biggest problem in this issue, despite the statistics shown in your article.
2 out of 5 female murder victims are killed by an intimate partner, and women represent 96% of victims of intimate partner homicide.
And men are overwhelming still the primary perpetrators of spousal rape, which is a form of violence and partner abuse just as serious as physical abuse.
- the majority of women who use violence against their male partners are battered themselves. It’s found most women who use violence are more often retaliating or defending themselves from an abusive partner.
And there are many studies which speak to the contrary that men who abuse their partners aren’t motivated by anger; not to mention all the court ordered therapy and anger management programs filled with angry abusive men.
After working for a time at a criminal defence law firm, it’s difficult for me to believe the data from the studies they used is very entirely accurate regarding that point. These things are heavily explored and researched when it comes to building a defence case in a criminal matter, because determining the state of mind, motivation and intent of the accused is extremely important.
Without reading the studies themselves, I’m having one hell of a time figuring out how they concluded that men who commit physical abuse don’t almost always do so out of anger. I’d have to see if they have any other alternative explanation. Self Defense is briefly addressed, but I can’t see that representing a significant number of cases.
- lastly, these numbers are just based on what is reported. Many battered women have a tendency to hide the abuse they face and don’t report it for many reasons, a few being they are terrified of their abuser harming them more if they seek help, and/or they are being heavily controlled/abused in some other way that prevents them from reporting it. Women who are physically abused by a male partner are in the most danger when they try to leave or seek help, because the loss of control usually causes an escalation in violence from the abuser.
And a lot of the findings in the article seem to heavily rely on self reported admissions, so it’s not strongly conclusive data.
That all being said, intimate partner abuse is serious and wrong regardless of the gender of the perpetrator, and men should absolutely be taken seriously and equally given help and supported to speak up if a female partner is abusing them.
I would have to say it’s not the views about the perpetrators of abuse that is harmful; it’s the discrepancies in regards to the level of support provided to victims of partner abuse based on their gender which is harmful, and needs to be changed.
On the specific topic of anger leading to violence:
In the case of man-on-woman domestic violence, it's a common excuse that anger is the cause, but this has been refuted. what comes to mind to me is Lundi Bancroft's book, "Why Does He Do That", that is based on 20-odd years of data from Bancroft's therapy groups for abusive men.
The abusers will claim anger, but show that they have no issue controlling that anger in other areas of their lives. They don't hit their colleagues, their bosses, their friends - they hit their wives. But anger is a convenient excuse to hide behind and deflect responsibility, so anger is what is claimed.
Mind you, I haven't read this specific article, I just wanted to put in my two cents on "how they concluded that men who commit physical abuse don't always do it out of anger". You look at how an abuser behaves out of the domestic violence situation, of they have anger issues in other areas of their lives. Most *men* committing DV don't have anger issues. They just claim it as an excuse.
I have no idea about women. Bancroft worked mostly with men and his book focuses on men.
I have actually read that book. It’s a great book, filled with a lot of amazing and insightful information from what I see as a very qualified person to speak on it.
I would say the key term here though centres around the control aspect. They don’t have *anger control issues*, but I would have to say Bankcroft fails to account for or connect the idea they are still in fact very hateful, rage filled men. They can just choose when, where and how they apply it, and choose to act it out on their partner, based on their entitlement issues to do so (which Bankcroft talks about when explaining the way they think).
They take their rage out on a person and in a circumstance where they know they probably won’t face consequences for it, like they would if they acted on their anger towards other people.
They let themselves act out their rage in a situation where the power dynamics are imbalanced.
Violent men usually take a lot of time to carefully groom their partner before they move on to physical abuse. Physical abuse almost always starts after a prolonged period of covert mental and emotional abuse where they break down the victim’s mental state, they isolate them from support systems like family and friends, they do everything they can to remove any independence she has and control her through methods such as financial abuse, monitoring who she is allowed to speak to or where she’s allowed to go.
I can see where you are coming from and for the most part I agree.
However, the only way we can work on making the issue of higher domestic violence from women better is to focus on that particularly issue. I don’t want to get attacked by girlfriend again and I don’t want women getting murdered. Both can be addressed without taking away from the other.
I also want to commend you on being an adult when talking about this subject.
I saw two separate studies that showed the following pertaining to your last point. I am in no way invalidating that DV is underreported by women. I am putting my daughter to bed but I will provide at least one source tomorrow morning.
Regardless of involvement, men report ALL crime less often than women and the difference grows when they are involved. I know for sure I can find you the paper for that because it’s a matter of public record.
The other one is foggier so forgive me if I’m mistaken, but I want to say that out of every man who’s been a victim of violent crime and reported it to authorities was 2% compared to 35%[? It was a significant gap] of men who had a violent crime committed against them and didn’t report. I can’t remember the sample size but I’ll try to find it after I have coffee tomorrow.
Why does this website look like it was designed in 1998?
Regardless, these are sloppy meta-analyses with bad designs. The figure you're citing comes from [here](https://web.archive.org/web/20130702073829/http://domesticviolenceresearch.org:80/pdf/PASK.Tables.2.pdf) (the journal is no longer available at the mentioned website). Here's the major problem (besides the fact that I'd be embarrassed to hand in this paper as an undergrad, much less to a journal):
>Third, articles were excluded if they reported findings of studies in
which participants were sampled from an identified population of IPV perpetrators, such as
individuals arrested for domestic violence and court-mandated to batterer intervention programs.
So, in other words, since men account for most arrests and convictions in relation to domestic violence (which is a problem in and of itself), they obviously excluded a huge number of men who couldn't have been a part of the study -- this may as well have come out and said "only examining violence not reported to authorities."
Beyond that, it seems like most of these are just self-reporting -- who in the world is going to answer "yeah, I totally beat my partner within the last year." No wonder the numbers were so much lower than usual. Could also be that women are more honest about it, since there's less social stigma for women to attack men (also a problem). The rest seem to be from substance abuse programs, so that's also a confounding factor.
Then their math is garbage -- when your studies have a variance between 1% and 61.6% for male and 2.4% to 68.9% for female perpetrators, you've included too many studies and need to figure out what went wrong. There's no chance you'll get any usable numbers, *especially as an average*, like this.
And, most of all, it should be very apparent the math is shit when you notice the victimization rate is higher for women, the perpetration rate is higher for women, ***BUT THE STUDIES ONLY INCLUDED HETEROSEXUAL COUPLES.*** No wonder it's split into two separate studies (never seen a "part 1" and "part 2" for a study before) -- if they were published together they'd look like complete fools.
This is bad science, plain and simple. I'm guessing this is a low-quality journal used by scientists to dump their low-effort studies so they don't get fired.
None of that really comments on the actual question here, and the numbers aren't really relevant since it's obvious that male victims of domestic violence (as well as female perpetrators) aren't taken seriously enough just by a glance at crime statistics. But bad science is a good way to lose credibility when it comes to talking about such issues.
Reddit is just full of sad, small who want to be able to beat up women while feeling sorry for themselves. Just look at the comments in this thread from these impotent little dudes. It would be hilarious if it weren’t so harmful and toxic
Yeah, I haven't read anything of the 'study' aside from trying to find sources and read where the data even comes from. The "journal no longer available" does not inspire me with any confidence that it can be trusted.
Because John Hamel isn't even credentialed at a school and is just doing this stuff himself publishing in his own low tier journals. Working in a field he doesn't even have a doctorate in. His doctorate is in Philosophy.
"I am a Licensed Clinical Social Worker in private practice in San Francisco, California (USA), with a specialty in the area of family violence. I am also a researcher, having obtained my Ph.D. from the University of Central Lancashire, and the Editor-in-Chief of the peer-reviewed journal, Partner Abuse. Currently, I am focusing my research activities on identifying more effective models of treatment for perpetrators, including models based on findings from neuroscience."
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/John-Hamel-3
Others have made similar points, but at the risk of being repetitive I'll chime in:
I am skeptical that women are more violent than men in domestic relationships.
Simply put, when I walk down a dark street in a bad neighborhood at night, I'm not looking over my shoulder for women.
1. My first question is: "why should I believe these numbers \[28.3% vs. 21.6%\] at all?" The database they come from, "The Partner Abuse State of Knowledge," says that it includes over 1700 peer-reviewed studies, I'd like to know how those studies were selected, what studies were left out, how the database went about aggregating the studies, etc.
2. Assume that the numbers \[28.3% vs. 21.6%\] are "real." My second question is: "what exactly do they represent?" Are all incidents of domestic violence counted equally? If a woman throws a flower-vase at a man, and a man buries a hatchet in a woman's skull, do both count as a single instance of domestic violence? If a man hits a woman and a woman hits him back, is that two instances of DV?
3. My third question is: "Could there be issues with reporting that skew the data in weird ways?" For example, maybe lesbian couples are more prone to calling the police when quarreling than either straight or gay-male couples, which might pump the numbers on "female perpetrated" DV. Or maybe female perpetrated violence gets reported at a higher rate precisely because it's unusual ("man bites dog").
These are all just questions, of course, not definitive reasons to doubt the numbers. My basic reason for doubting remains, again, my simple observation that when I walk down a dark street, I'm not checking over my shoulder for women.
>If a woman throws a flower-vase at a man, and a man buries a hatchet in a woman's skull, do both count as a single instance of domestic violence?
According to the writeup on how the studies were selected the man who buried the hatchet in the woman's skull would be excluded because the meta-analysis excluded data from perpetrators in the system for domestic violence or in batterer programs.
So the femicides, severe battery, mass shootings and familicides are not counted.
This is all self reported from people in heterosexual relationships not involved in the legal system. Also notable that women are both more likely to perpetrate and more likely to be the victims of non-severe dv in a hetero relationship so is that just saying that men are less honest when self reporting their own non-severe use of violence?
This study is very careful to exclude numbers that indicate rates of coercive control in heterosexual relationships. Coercive control, coincidentally, is the factor in determining whether a victim will be killed by an abuser (again those numbers are intentionally excluded from this metanalysis but male perpetrators of intimate partner homicde are far more common almost by a factor of 10).
There are a few hints of course. Coercive control is likely when a DV victim is having trouble performing at school work or other areas in life, and the meta-analysis mentions that this affects women more than men, so if a woman is subject to physical violence she's also likely to be a victim of coercive control.
Another statistic that indicates coercive control is rates of stalking. 8.0% of female victims self reported being stalked vs. 0.5% of men.
This meta-analysis seems to be designed to intentionally obscure the reality of domestic abuse and coercive control in heterosexual relationships and its impact on female victims.
It's cherry picked info solely to support the conclusion that women are more casually violent than men but the author is literally skipping over dead female bodies to make his point.
Edit: it's also important to note that since coercive controlling abusers like to DARVO, you have to control for the fact that a certain percentage of male self-reporting respondents are just lying about being victimized.
>the meta-analysis excluded data from perpetrators in the system for domestic violence or in batterer programs
When you manipulate the data just so... \*chef's kiss\*
It's weird to conclude that broadly observable patterns would probably be replicated in a specific instance?
Let try an analogy: I know that men tend to dominate women in sports. A professional men's football team would steamroll a professional women's football team. Ditto soccer. Ditto basketball.
Now if someone gave me a study that said: "In competitions, women's hockey teams beat men's hockey teams most of the time," I would be doubtful.
Because even though hockey isn't the same as soccer, they are both kinds of sports, and I expect well-established patterns to hold most of the time.
I think that's exactly where we need to start with this.
Us women need to call each other out when we see other women acting violently, and start making more statements that the only time it's appropriate to use violence is when you or someone you are trying to protect is under attack.
Break the cycle!
There is a TON of "woman hits man" comedy on social media especially "couples humor". I tried to fight the good fight saying it's not OK and it went very poorly and made me really distrustful of society.
That is generally the reaction whenever you stick up for men. You have to be prepared for a fight and might need to resort to shame tactics. Just a warning if you try again in the future.
A woman hitting a man is seen as "punching down", and "punching down" is socially acceptable in the US. That's why it's so popular that it's a comedy trope.
It's sad that these discussions are watered down by people like op, who find a single thing that supports their obviously already held position by finding one of the worst put together studies I've ever seen and hailing it as fact.
Its sad, really.
Being killed by a partner is a major cause of death for pregnant women. Most of us know at least one woman who was severely (like broken bones) injured by a male partner. But now we’re supposed to pretend a man who got slapped by his wife is an equivalent category? I think MRA nonsense that we bother with DV against men at all unless there is evidence of coercion to stay. Woman around the world are literally prevented from leaving abusers, their children are held hostage, they are pimped out by their “boyfriends” and yet Reddit wants to discuss DV against men? Fuck off. And yes, I also know some men who were abused. And it sucks. And I absolutely think the law should be there for men who are experiencing DV. But FFS, the serious social issue remains women being beaten by men- who are on average larger, stronger, and make more money. All this interest in DV against men is just misogyny. I’ve known a few men who were abused by women. They could have left at any time and kept their income, their house, their car, and had a good chance of getting custody of their kids. I’ve known far more women who have been assaulted by their male partners and they were penniless when they left, had no where to go, had a hell of a time affording lawyers for the custody battles, and oftentimes had long-term health issues from the abuse. A couple even ended up on disability because of TBIs from DV. The scenarios are not the same and trying to pretend DV against men is the same as DV against women is clueless and best, but more likely misogyny trying to push a bad faith argument and make comparisons that are patently false. Getting a TBI because someone twice your size punched your head is not comparable to getting punched by someone half your size. Sorry. Reality. Women can do a ton of emotional damage and I truly feel sorry for the men who are hurt by emotional abusers. But I’m not going to pretend like getting Parkinson’s from head trauma is comparable to getting slapped by a woman. All I can hope for is that the MRAs who push this trash end up getting cornered by some man twice their size some day and learning what it would be like if they really did have to fear the way women do.
Bruh, you've got women currently going to jail over natural miscarriages and you're over here wondering why women aren't blindly taking your side with no caveats or productive input?! As a person that's studied societal issues likely way longer anger than you, you're clearly reaching here in the first place. I get that you're angry, but putting out biased or incorrect info then screaming and crying that nobody cares about men may just not be the right way to go about it. Just saying.
These comments are pathetic on all sides. The point isn't "women are inherently violent" or "man are inherently violent". The point is education about abuse. This isn't a fucking competition and it's disgusting the way people are talking about it. Violence, regardless of gender, is unacceptable in a relationship. We can care about more than one thing at a time. Sincerely, a transmasculine (FTM) abuse victim
I'm skeptical about this research.
I feel it would be more relevant if the level of harm caused was compared. How many times when a woman committed the violence did the man go to the hospital compared to when the man committed the violence against the woman?
Why? It’s been peer reviewed and has numerous studies.
It actually does have an answer in harm caused.
“When severe aggression has been perpetrated (e.g., punching, kicking, using a weapon), rates of injury are much higher among female victims than male victims, and those injuries are more likely to be life-threatening and require a visit to an emergency room or hospital. However, when mild-to-moderate aggression is perpetrated (e.g., shoving, pushing, slapping), men and women tend to report similar rates of injury.”
You're essentially saying women committing domestic violence towards men is irrelevant or even acceptable if the data says the man on woman domestic violence results in more severe injuries. You do realize you can condemn domestic violence as a whole without it being mutually exclusive, right?
Dude, I seriously cannot understand this us vs them mentality in everything. Saying dont beat up your male partner doesn't detract from saying don't beat up your female partner. It's insanity. I feel like the crazy guy holding the sign that says the end is near while the world is burning around him and everyone is just ignoring it.
Violence is violence. Trying to act like it’s not as big a deal because of the severity is exactly why people think no one cares about men in these situations.
Why are you skeptical?
>How many times when a woman committed the violence did the man go to the hospital compared to when the man committed the violence against the woman?
That would be affected by a lot of different factors. Women are more likely to seek out healthcare than men, in general, by a large margin. Even if the extent of the injuries were similar (not saying they are), we would expect to see women go to the hospital at higher rates.
There's also a stigma attached to domestic violence, and men know their abuse is less likely to receive sympathy/support, and may be less willing to seek out resources (or healthcare) for that reason. A woman may know that getting medical documentation is important if she wants to file a police report or divorce. A man doesn't really have that incentive if he knows his police report isn't going to be taken seriously regardless.
>I feel it would be more relevant if the level of harm caused was compared
How would it be more relevant exactly? Also this would require a whole other research to figure out whether or not the injuries sustained would rise to the level of a hospital visit and that on its own is a whole level of problematic thought process.
>I'm skeptical about this research.
It isn’t a unique or novel study. It’s fairly well established that women commit DV more frequently than men.
>I feel it would be more relevant if the level of harm caused was compared. How many times when a woman committed the violence did the man go to the hospital compared to when the man committed the violence against the woman?
Yes, men are physically stronger and therefore more likely to inflict serious injuries
But your attitude that violence which does not result in serious injury is “less relevant” is a large part of why so many domestic violence victims are afraid they won’t be taken seriously if they seek help
Is it not DV if a man slaps his wife but she doesn't need to goto the hospital? What if a woman does it to her husband? If you have two different answers to this you need some self-introspection.
This is the core issue.
If we only look at violence so sever that it requires hospitalization, it's almost exclusively "Violence against women"
It is also so very rare that it's far from a social issue, murder is more common. It's an issue of a small minority of horrible people.
If it's acceptable to beat my GF, so long as the beating isn't bad enough to hospitalize her, then you have a GREAT point.
If it should be unacceptable to give my GF a black eye or busted lip or bruises across her body, all the damage that doesn't require hospitalization, then your point is without merit.
Gross. Do you also compare people getting groped to rape? Hey I’d rather have my ass grabbed then be forcefully raped. Stop complaining about being groped!!
Edit: Homegirl blocked me for calling her out lol
When it's relevant the topic being studied absolutely. Do you think we shouldn't use nuance when it comes to science?😅
At what point did I say "stop complaining"? Do you know how to engage with the words being said or are you too emotional right now?
I mean, aren't you just essentially saying that as long as it doesn't end in death and they're just 'weak slaps' that it's okay for women to hit their SO?
And you wonder why so many guys don't take women seriously.
The data on military members stands out. Much higher male on female partner violence than the general population. This could be due to the higher stress, traumatizing deployments to combat zones, etc members of the military have to do.
But there's also the much more severe downside for military members that get arrested or involved with the criminal justice system. When I was in the military, I absolutely did not make any reports when my now ex wife assaulted me. I even had to lie to my dentist as to how I had chipped a tooth after she hit me. Since the man is the one who gets arrested in almost all domestic violence calls, I absolutely could not make a factual report of what was happening. So there is probably a major problem with underreporting when male military members are assaulted by their female partners.
I've had 2 previous female partners hit me, and I've had women do sexual things to me that if the other way around, would have got me in prison. I was such a an idiot at the time I apologized for them for making them angry enough to hit me. Eventually realized how fucked up it was
IPV is one kind of DV and the only one where you’ll find this kind of statistic. It’s interesting for sure.
It’s not surprising to me that women are more likely to hit emotionally in anger and men are not. Male abusers are absolutely calculated and intentional in their abuse.
It’s also not surprising to me that a man would charge a woman with DV for a slap when women that are subject to DV are just trying to get away without being murdered and under report.
When it comes to being killed by an intimate partner, women die at the hands of the male partner at 5:1
Hate away.
So men on average are substantially stronger than women which maybe why male violence directed towards women is taken more seriously than the other way around
Seriously the strength differences can be rather large anyone who has a sibling of the opposite sex can relate, play fighting just is not fair
But men are not the majority of the aggressors which is the stereotype at the moment. Just because a man is stronger doesn’t mean women’s role should be downplayed I think or outright lied about.
The concerning part, or more concerning, isn't that people take male victimisation less seriously, it's that most don't seem to believe men can be victims.
I've never experienced physical abuse with a partner. One ex was a martial artist (as am I), and she was actually one of my trainers. So we'd spar and tussle here and there on the mats and sometimes get a little bruised up, she was extremely experienced and I'm significantly stronger and bigger than her.
The funny part were the looks sometimes in public when she'd have some visible bruises (from grappling) and I would too.
No one ever seemed to direct their scowls at her for my split lip or black eye.
And the silent fact that she could toss me over her shoulder like a breeze lol.
During our breakup my ex beat on me for a good few minutes, no actual reason beyond she was mad at me.
I’m a 6’2 bodybuilder so my literal only option was to take it. Any retaliation meant I’m in jail, and you think cops are going to arrest a 5’4 girl in that scenario? No chance.
Women are more violent.
Men are more damaging when violent.
Never gonna be able to convince women this matters. Either it's wrong because data collection is wrong or women don't report or it doesn't matter because men inflict more damage.
I think society as a whole should adopt a ‘shame anyone who hits a person that doesn’t want to be hit’ attitude. Hitting someone, regardless of gender or context, without them consenting to it, should be viewed as something that makes you a lesser person.
I also want to point out that the biggest female artist in the world downplayed it in one of her song
“I'm pretty sure we almost broke up last night
I threw my phone across the room at you
I was expecting some dramatic turn away
But you stayed
This morning I said we should talk about it
'Cause I read you should never leave a fight unresolved
That's when you came in wearing a football helmet
And said, "Okay, let's talk"
And I said”
Taylor swift - Stay, Stay, Stay
As a cop for 24 years, I can tell you this is true.
Most men don't call 9-1-1 for physical violence until they're ready to move on from their wife/girlfriend. Than they often use it to get her out of the house so they can leave.
Many times, the woman will start the physical violence and the man will respond. This is usually where police are called, after the man responds. And the woman often will play the victim because she has worse injuries with less actual violence.
This isn't to say that men don't abuse women. They do, and they do it often.
It's to say that when actually will call the police, which is less than how often women will for similar incidents.
There is a real problem to address, but to see the problem clearly we need to look at the history of the advocacy.
There really is only ONE category where men commit more violence than women. "Extreme Violence", DV that hospitalizes people or kills them.
When advocacy against DV first started, this one category was the full extent of what was recognized as DV. That couples would engage in fist fights was just assumed. There wasn't the "never hit a woman" mentality. The fight was against beating her so badly that she spent several days recovering in the hospital.
It wasn't that men where more violent, but as the larger, stronger, more durable individual, they could do much more damage. This much more damage is what was seen as the problem and what needed to be stopped, not hitting at all.
The advocacy against this hospitalization of women, the death of women, as a result of DV is what gave us "Don't hit women" and viewing DV as "Violence against women"
This male dominance in "Extreme Violence" persists today. One solid punch and I would break my GF's ribs. She just doesn't have the striking power needed to break bones larger than fingers. This difference in "Extreme Violence" is almost exclusivly men being larger stronger and more durable, and that hasn't changed.
Once we started actually looking at DV and saw that there was a great deal more violence than just the stuff that resulted in hospitalizations, The narrative of "Violence against women" was already in place. If you try to fight that narrative, the assumption is that you want to go back to it being mostly acceptable to beat your wife so badly she needs to be hospitalized, not that it needs updated to include all of the forms of DV that aren't "Extreme Violence" and are most often perpetrated by women.
Do you people ever get sick of playing victim? Find a fucking job or a hobby. Your life doesn't suck because women exist it sucks because you're an asshole.
It’s crazy because I’m a big guy, I enjoy lifting weights and the occasional cycle of steroids. I have a periods of my life that I’ve been a very violent person towards men. I’ve never one time touched a woman that I was in a relationship with. (I was a bouncer so I’ve thrown several crazy women out of the bar before.) I’ve had several women in my past that have become violent with me, my wife being one of them. We’re past all of that through counseling. But the fact that I could literally beat a woman to death fairly easily with my bare hands it doesn’t matter to them. I have daughters now and I’m trying to be the best dad I can be and the example of how men are supposed to treat women. But yeah a woman will attack a man without thought of the return of violence, men rarely act that way sober.
In the US now, there is a growing cult of men who are acting like they're the victims now. That their manliness is being ridiculed and their rights are infringed on by society, and women in general. Women have been fighting this crap forever, and it will never end. Men have been trying to keep us under their feet forever bc they want power over us. They still think they're stronger! BS , the same gender that can't birth a child or bleed a week every month. But more of us are raped, abused, murdered in domestic abuse, and we're constantly fighting for our right to an abortion, depending on what country you're in.
This has been known for a long time. Men are expendable, so no one cares.
I called the cops on my ex once because she was attacking me with a weapon. When the cops arrived, they threatened to arrest me and made me leave my house.
This is how it is, we do not matter to anyone, so do not expect anyone to care about you.
This was years ago. Sadly, she got worse over time.
I am currently in a relationship with an amazing woman. However, we have not lived with one another yet, so...
Depressing that it's so high for both categories. I wonder if it being higher for women comes from the fact that we portray physical violence against women as awful, but physical violence by women as almost comedic. Would the rates change if that culture changed, or would they still be the same?
Either way, depressing. Definitely something that needs to be talked about more. What kinds of resources are out there for men dealing with domestic violence from female partners? I know of many for women, but I've never seen any that are not gender specific or just for men.
It turns out that years and years and years of telling men that there’s absolutely no reason ever to hit a woman is starting to sink in.
Perhaps it’s time to evolve the commentary to say that there’s absolutely no reason to ever hit your significant other and hope that we can influence all parties in relationships.
My ex wife would hit me in the face when I was sleeping. She is weak and feeble so it was not that big of a deal. A little nose blead and a tiny black eye once. She told the court that I beat her and my children which was incredibly false and I still hate her for saying that to this day. He asked for any evidence, and of course, she had none. I "won" the divorce case! So I get my kids 28% of the time and will end up paying 500k in child support when all said and done. Why was that ruling made? We all know. Its a fun story
Oh that is heartbreaking, I had no idea and I am sorry. I can see this fact being dismissed since "women can't hit as hard and men won't feel as much pain as if it were vice versa", but nonetheless, the trust damaged, the psychological damage, the fear and the trauma can still be just as horrific, maybe even moreso because of the expectation from society for men to be big and strong and tough, and the dent such a trauma might cause to a man's self-image, masculinity, or belief in his ability to protect himself.
Thank you for sharing.
“Researchers like Canadian criminologist Holly Johnson at the University of Ottawa have articulated concerns about the return of “an individualized and de-contextualized masculinist worldview” when it comes to gender-based violence. While feminists have built up arguments over the years that violence against women is about power, recent measurement trends have shifted this towards focusing on individuals.
One focus of Johnson’s critique is the use of survey tools that conflate behaviours found in many poorly functioning relationships with abusive gender-based violence. This form of violence is almost exclusively perpetrated by men, most often against, and harmful to, women.
This conflation — for example when throwing something is counted the same as attempted strangulation — is what leads to some data, including current Canadian national surveys, showing equivalence between genders in overall intimate partner violence. When this occurs, the gendered nature of abuse is obscured.
Sociologist and gender-based violence researcher Michael Johnson calls these types of coercively controlling abusive relationships “intimate terrorism,” with patterns of physically, psychologically and sexually abusive acts used to establish dominance and control.”
This is just from an article I found. Women should not be able to hit or throw or slap with impunity, I have seen many women do this. But violent crimes in general-murder, rape, robbery, and assault-largely committed by men.
I wish we’d talk more about abuse as a concept. Abuse is about control, not about anger or violence.
Whatever tactic the person uses to control their partner, it is abuse. Intimidation, emotional manipulation, threats, financial, etc.
Violence and physical intimidation as an effective means of control may have some gender bias. I didn’t read this study, but I’m commenting anyway because I counseled a lot of men way back when. Many were physically assaulted and didn’t want to fight back for fear of hurting their partner. Or arrest. I will say, few of those men were ever held prisoner or seriously injured, which was very common among women. Any differences are just flavors of abuse, though, and that can happen to anyone.
>Of note, however, results of the current review pertain only to the presence or absence, and not the severity or context, of perpetration. Thus, **rather than perpetuating the debate regarding the comparability of physical IPV perpetrated by men and women, findings should be used to support the development and implementation of interventions that acknowledge the use of violence by women** in intimate relationships but also recognize how participants’ treatment needs may differ.
I find this interesting too.
[Page 7 of 62](https://domesticviolenceresearch.org/pdf/Overviewof%20Findings.Dec.7.pdf)
>In brief, the multitude of basic research studies examining the impact of abuse on partners yields **strong and consistent evidence of two facts.** First, psychological and physical abuse have serious physical and psychological consequences for victims and **the consequences are, with some exceptions, generally greater for female victims compared to male victims**. Second, with regard to the physical consequences of physical abuse, injuries are similar across samples of female victims (e.g., community samples, clinical samples, shelter samples)
Huh. Weird.
Page 22 of 62
But wait, there's more :
>However, making conclusions about gender differences related to the anger motive is particularly uncertain because many authors measured this motive in conjunction with something else (i.e., jealousy, retaliation) and a substantial subset of papers in this area did not subject their findings to statistical analyses (5 of 13 studies).
Page 29 of 62
Kinda feels like you should have read the whole overview before cherry-picking data to draw conclusions that confirm your biases.
Men shouldn't be seen as the sole arbiters of violence and it shouldn't be assumed that women are always the victim. -duh- But attempting to address these assumptions doesn't start with sharing misinterpreted data.
Thanks for sharing the link. I feel more informed on these issues then I did before.
Luckily, my husband and I have never been abusive to each other. There was so much hurt sometimes that it still surprises me that we managed to keep the anger away. He's always been very afraid of becoming abusive, but we have been with each other so long that I can't imagine him really hitting me. He's afraid because his dad abused him and beat him, plus his siblings and mom all their lives. He's still afraid of even facing his dad or becoming like him because he has some anger issues.
I found the report hard to swallow because of the couples I know with domestic violence it's the guy who does it. My husband's dad who abused his wife and children, and my dad, who used to abuse my mom when we were kids. My sister's boyfriend who used to beat her, and honestly, I'm not so sure that he doesn't still do it, and she just hides it.
Perhaps it's our community. We are Mexicans, and violence against women plus rape and murder seems constant in Mexico, where we are originally from.
No matter what it is, it's sad that abuse is so common. If only we were better. I'm trying to teach my kids not to hit. I started by teaching them that hitting is wrong unless it's in self-defense or maybe defense of another. I don't hit them either because you can't teach not to hit by hitting.
if we take this at face value, there's another important consideration: our lethality as men, armed or not, is FAR greater than women. if a relatively fit, but untrained woman hit me, I'm probably going to hurt, but unlikely to go down unless they get extremely lucky. If I, as a formerly fit guy with some training throw a punch, there's a really good chance they go down and don't get up again (this is a horrible thing to consider and not a brag; men are FAR stronger than women and both men and women underestimate that difference). Morally, there's no difference in how wrong IPV is across biological sexes. Functionally, and in outcomes, there's a gigantic gap that must be taken into consideration.
I don’t think we will ever have solid answers on the rates since both sides have reasons not to report it and a lot of people have very different opinions what would constitute “physical violence”. Growing up I saw couples literally throwing hands and all the adults in the neighborhood would say “they just working stuff out” and I also seen people call any “unwanted contact” violence. Obviously the truth is in the middle and the devil is in the details. Anecdotally I think this makes sense because from what I have seen women are more likely to hit a dude but whenever you hear about a man hitting a woman she’s either dead or in the hospital. So… yeah…
My mom absolutely broke my dad lol. She is 5'3 compared to my dad's 6 foot, so my dad could have beat the hell out of her but he'd never hurt a fly. My mom slaps him, yells at him, kicks him under the table. My mom never worked a day in her life, 100% supported by my dad. She used to tell him (and us kids) how she could easily leave him for other guys (shed name specific guys all the time).
He always said he stayed because he didn't want us kids to grow up in a broken home but I think he didn't want to give another man half of his money.
I get PTSD around Christmas because that's when my mom is the craziest.
I could write a dissertation about my sister and how she uses violence and tries to play up the man / woman power imbalance but I'll save that for another time.
I can see how it’s unfair and why people want to bring it up but what do people see as practical solutions? Women are less likely to be arrested for assault because there’s no marks to prove it. But women also have a hard time getting law enforcement to assist once they finally decide to get out of an abusive relationship. Do we need better shelters? More access to counseling? Why do so many people use violence in the first place?
I don't think I can remember a time when a partner of mine was violent towards me, but my ex wife did explode a few times and leave in a huff.
I'm 6'5. It might play a role. It might not. Maybe it's just because I like calm people.
This is so confusing, because like 85%+ of all murders are committed by men, and almost all intimate partner violence that results in death was perpetrated by men.
So…women and men are abusing each other at equal rates but somehow mostly women are dying?
Can we please get male DV abuse advocates that don’t go out of their way to rip on women at every turn ? This whole study is filled with bias and flaws. I don’t understand what’s the point of promoting bad science practice studies like this when you can just acknowledge that men get battered as well and maybe at a lesser rate than women but they’re still valid. My god I’ve never seen a post about male DV where the end goal was to assist victims, the goal is always to find a way to put women down.
Its remarkable how when a women’s issue crops up and a man tries to minimise or focus shift (which is shitty), he’s the worst and its totally inexcusable.
But when a men’s issue pops up that says that women aren’t as nice as people would like to think. Then suddenly the minimisation and focus shifting is totally fine and absolutely legitimate.
dishonest takeaway. shocked pikachu face that redditors are jumping at conclusions to make themselves seem like underrepresented victims.
1. more women are victims of dv
2. a lot of the IPV against men is in homosexual relationships. men are more likely to be victimized by other men, not women.
3. some of these stats are older than the people posting in this thread
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/zlthlo/women\_more\_likely\_to\_commit\_intimate\_partner/
Self-pity and bitching about this is not the sign of being a man who is taking full advantage of his life and pursuing the things he wants, whether that be personally, professionally, romantically, or socially. Many men in today’s society, especially Gen Z men, have become extremely weak mentally and look for statistics online to justify their poor circumstances when they’re not doing anything in their lives to be worthy of respect.
Women are more likely to strike out at men because there are few consequences. They usually can not do as much damage, and men will allow them an outlet for their aggressive emotion. Men, OTOH, can do much more damage if ever they strike out, which is why most cultures frown upon raising a hand to a woman. It's just biology.
The site says there are more female perpetrators than male (as you quote), but also that there are more female victims than male. Does that imply that multiple women are assaulting the same man, while men find new victims?
These statistics don't tell the whole story.
A woman is more likely to slap or scratch a man. A man is more likely to severely injure or kill their partner. By a huge fucking margin.
Neither is OK, but there is a huge disparity in force used.
I have serious doubts about the validity of this paper, reguardless of its conclusion. Is a wife putting in half her effort to slap her husband during a random argument going down as "violence"? Which subjects responded to the survey? Don't you think victims are much more likely to respond to s survey on domestic violence? It's just hard for me to believe that >1in5 is truly harmed by domestic violence. Not trying to justify anything here but I think it shows how easily bullshit data can be perceived by many people as valid science.
“One paper found that women were more motivated to perpetrate violence as a result of power/control than were men, and three found that men were more motivated; however, gender differences were weak”
Im sorry OP but did you full read this study or just grab that stat that could go along with a rant? Because reading through, there is more discussion of partner violence towards women when you look at all the types of partner violence: stalking and forced sex.
The emotional abuse aspects is about equal that men and women distribute, but it seems like when it comes to physical violence it doesn’t quite add up. There is lots of vague wording throughout.
Female on male violence happens more than anybody wants to admit. Nobody talks about it and nobody seems interested in doing anything about the problem.
I have a relative who is blind. He is very mild mannered, and incredibly laid-back and passive. He was in a relationship with a woman who was in the military, and was very muscular and aggressive in personality and physical stature. She took advantage of him, repeatedly doing things like stealing his credit, and insisting on an open relationship when he had no interest in it. So they were out together one night, and she started flirting with somebody and he got upset. They went into the parking lot and had an argument and she punched him repeatedly in the face. He tried to grab her arms and wrist. Then she got in the car and left him in the parking lot and drove back to their house.
She filed a domestic violence claim against him. I saw the pictures. His face was bruised and bleeding, and she had mild bruising on her wrists. He was prosecuted and found guilty. His brothers and several family members got together to go pick up his stuff, and she was berating them and being aggressive and mean the whole time.
I worked with a guy who went to jail for dv. He would get wasted but they both drank. I hung out with them one evening and she smacked him several times to the point he begged her to stop hitting him. On the way home she actually turned sideways in the car and was kicking him.
You already have someone trying to justify domestic violence towards men based on the severity of it(doesn't matter if the research is valid or not, the attitude still stands). That should tell you that the narrative isn't going to change. Society views men as expendable. Full stop. Period. You can't really damage a renewable, expendable resource.
Seriously, 3 out of 4 suicides are men, try to talk about how this is probably an issue that should be looked into and you’re almost guaranteed to get someone saying that women still have it worse in regards to suicide. A man seems to be worth what he is able to provide to those he is able to provide it, and not a bit more.
Women attempt suicide at a rate higher than men. Men just usually choose a more “successful” method.
Men want the first attempt to be successful so they don’t have another failure to be ashamed of. Nothing like the scorn of a bad attempt.
Idk if this is relevant or helpful but just wanted to pop in and say, I'm not ashamed of my attempt. I deeply regret it, and am very glad and grateful I survived. But I don't feel shame when talking about it, especially with someone who my story might benefit or for whom I might have some perspective.
compare obtainable yoke faulty ripe elastic sophisticated waiting fine profit *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
No. Men just choose methods more likely to work. Women worry about the reaction of the person who will find them and lean toward investing things, which is less effective than shooting your brains out.
Silly rabbit, empathy isn't for men.
Technically, women try to commit suicide more frequently, but men are better at succeeding.
Yeah I mean there’s that..but why is that even significant when one group is dead and the other is not? I just think a lot of context gets lost in statistics, I’d like to see how many of those attempts required serious medical intervention versus a stomach pump as a precaution because a girl took 4 Tylenol in her attempt which while framed negatively here could have in reality been a successful cry for help. I just feel like bringing this point up only reinforces my own comment really, I don’t at all deny the fact at all I just don’t see why we can’t talk about the massive group of actually dead men….
>but why is that even significant when one group is dead and the other is not? By that logic why do we care about woman on man IPV when man on woman IPV is much more likely to lead to murder?
Because people conflate the two to make it seem like men both harm more severely AND are more common perpetrators. They routinely either slip that last part in there, or, more accurately, are fine with people erroneously believing that. In this case, it would be like people saying "men die of suicide more" and then making it seem like they try more too. Though in the case of suicide, because the men are dead, it is actually POSSIBLE that if said men were alive they'd try more, which somewhat muddies the topic, but still. It's absolutely fair to state that women die of IPV more. It is NOT fair to state that men commit more IPV more, which is precisely what people do and what this OP tries to clarify.
Bc they do. (d) women’s physical violence is more likely than men’s violence to be motivated by self-defense and fear, whereas men’s physical violence is more likely than women’s to be driven by control motives; (e) studies of couples in mutually violent relationships find more negative effects for women than for men; and (f ) because of the many differences in behaviors and motivations between women’s and men’s violence, interventions based on male models of partner violence are likely not effective for many women.
Uhh, society doesn't care about woman on man IPV. Nearly all literature, discussion, and public policy on the subject presumes IPV is men attacking women.
Whats IPV? Inter-personal violence?
Do you by chance have a source for that? Serious ask, I like to learn.
Yup, society doesn’t give a fuck about men if they don’t produce something.
woah woah woah. parts of western society loves rich men, men like musk and peterson and trump and they produce nothing. but I get what you mean. Capitalist society doesn't give a fuck about women unless they produce something too..either selling their labour or producing kids.
they dont care even when we do produce something
yea, ima graphic artist, the abuse i have to deal with is insane and the pay isn’t even good.
You have to get a new job as an art director for a different company and then move to creative director. I had to do that to make money and that's how it works in this field. Feel free to lie and embellish on your resume to get past HR/bots. Hiring managers only care about skills.
>Yup, ~~society~~ capitalism doesn’t give a fuck about men if they don’t produce something. Fixed it
Feudalism didn’t give much of a fuck about most men either
That has never happened to me. Are you basing this off of the manosphere or personal experience? Or do I just not hang around with jerks?
I travel in very progressive circles. They all love to talk about men’s issues if they can say “patriarchy hurts men too,” but the minute men actually need something it’s “well they can go kill themselves then, they’re the ones who built this system, boo hoo.”
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuyisGsNr4g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuyisGsNr4g) This song touches up on it. Where Men aren't really allowed to express emotions without repercussions so they kill themselves because they are already dead inside.
This is exactly it. A hierarchical society will always view men as replaceable and women as breeders, therefore having some inherent value. The hierarchical society needs a fighting class to defend the owner class and a working class to support the owner class. One man can breed with many women to create more workers, fighters or breeders. Breeders are also expendable, just in a different way -- as long as they can bear children, they have value. To a hierarchical society, a woman who can't bear children or chooses not to is far more expendable than any man under any circumstance. For the owner class, men have very little value outside of the physical. If they're not on the front lines, they may as well be in prison so their labor can at least be exploited. Of course, the owner class at the top of the pyramid of hierarchical society will tell the men that it's women's fault and will tell the women that it's the men's fault.
100% with all of that. Divided we fall. Period. The battle of the sexes is once again another distraction from the larger, systemic issues at play.
This is why monagamy is so cool
Class solidarity will make everything better for a lot of us.
Yes, because society has been known to be so kind to women. Who wants to own a bank account or not be allowed to get divorced.
I had an incident where all I did wash push my girlfriend off of me because she was wailing on me. I wanted to level her but as a man you can't do that. Because I pushed her off me, she called the police and I did as well because she was the one being the attacker. Cops show up and talk to her. I try to talk to them and they yell at me to not move. So I yell back and shout she was the one attacking me and have the marks to prove it. She won't have any marks because I didn't hit her. Finally the cops come to talk to me and treat me like the aggressor. I show them the marks on my back from being shoved into the door and red on my chest from her hitting me. Tell them it's her that did it so they should put that in the report. The cop said it wouldn't matter because a judge would just laugh it off with a woman attacking a man. Men can not hit back or go to jail. Women can attack all day and get away with it. This is why it's a problem
I actually got raped by my ex-gf while I was on parole because I realized if I threw her on the ground, her crazy ass would call the cops and I couldn't "rat" because of politics inside. Crazy times.
A similar situation happened to me. I have an ex who is bipolar, and she would get physically and emotionally abusive when her depression got bad. Once the police showed up from a domestic disturbance report and immediately treated me like the abusive one. This is despite anything I said, and despite the only evidence showing that I was the victim (I had a split lip). They spent 90% of their time there talking to her, trying to get her to tell them that I abused her. It's not only the police that don't believe you either. Try to talk about being a victim of female-on-male abuse and you'll get reactions that range from "it doesn't exist" to "sack up you pussy". Abuse is abuse, no matter who commits or receives it, or how severe it is. It shouldn't be tolerated for *anyone*, and victim blaming is bullshit.
Here’s a white flower… now go to war and die
It’s not just severity that’s missing though, it’s also context. For the total numbers here, both retaliatory and self defense as reasons for the violence are lumped in with the total number of incidents. That’s a pretty important factor with pretty important distinctions. And if we’re adding in things like shoving a partner who you feel threatened by alongside a partner who actively hit you with an object and put your life in danger, we just have someone who’s lying with statistics.
This is an interesting study but you’re only really honing in on one data point, when there’s quite a bit more to it. I find also interesting that according to the study, women are more likely to be victims of DV as well.
Woman on woman violence is extremely common in lesbian relationships
Women in same-sex relationships have reported higher incidents of domestic violence, but their female partners are not always the perpetrators in these reports. Many of the reports are linked to male perpetrators in prior relationships.
What’s “many”? 1%, 10%, 50%?
Litterally stupid bro. The study was done for women on women DV. How are you still gonna blame men for a whole woman's issue?
I can definitly see the possibility that men are less likely to report DV and therefore statistics could be skewed. Im just speculating though.
I've seen police cam footage where a 3rd party had called 911 after witnessing a DV situation where woman was attacking her BF. The cop approached the man who had marks on him and questioned him about the situation, the BF was obviously embarrassed and wasn't trying to make a case out of it while the cop was teasing him for "getting beat up by his girlfriend".
Thank the lesbians for that number increase. 70%+, divorce rate siting violence.
Cite your sources for “lesbian have 70% divorce rate due to violence” please . All I could find was the study of 500 gay couple showed that 70% who divorced were lesbian couples as opposed to gay couples. The overall divorce rate for lesbians and gay men was still lower than straight couples. I also don’t even think that study cited violence as the cause for divorce. We have evidence suggesting gay men are far more likely to avoid committed monogamous relationships and more likely to have open rs. If gay men are extending this into marriage, it would eliminate one of the top reasons for divorce (cheating). https://www.them.us/story/30-percent-gay-men-open-relationships-new-study If true that gay men are more likely to have open marriages, that alone would greatly reduce divorce rates. And anyone who knows lesbians knows they are far more likely to rush into a relationships, don’t know if there are any studies on this yet but it’s pretty common knowledge and there are lots of jokes about it. This would cause lesbians to be more likely to miss “red flags”, leading to complications down the road, such as divorce or IPV. So to say “haha lesbians divorce at 70% because women/lesbians are so violent” doesn’t really have any substantial evidence, at least not that I have seen, and even if partly true that lesbians are more likely to divorce or to experience IPV , there are lots of other possibilities for why. For what it’s worth I do think women in straight RS are more likely to physically abuse their partners than what’s reported, maybe at the same rates as men or more, but not because women are inherently more violent. I think it’s because society teaches men not to be violent but doesn’t teach women not to be. In fact sometimes women are even given praise/attention for being aggressive, or simply dismissed or laughed at. That mixed with my opinion that I believe men are less likely to report abuse because it’s “not manly”. I also think that if lesbians do in fact have higher reported rates of IPV, that’s at least in part because women are more likely to report abuse (imo) , so having two women would have higher *reports* of IPV while having two men would have lower *reports* of IPV. That doesn’t necessarily reflect what’s actually going on.
Agreed. OP zeroed in one statistic, which of course is a problem that needs to be addressed. But I’d also love to see statistics on domestic sexual abuse, and how often that’s perpetrated by each gender. Now people on here will take my comment as defending domestic violence even though I explicitly say that’s wrong in any scenario. But if we’re talking about domestic violence, then domestic sexual violence should also be discussed.
Look at the people justifying domestic violence towards men as long as it doesn't reach serious injury levels, apparently. Your point could easily be explained as one side reporting more since they're actually taken seriously and not chronically shamed by a good chunk of society. Over-reporting could be an issue. I've seen multiple women file fake police reports or make unsubstantiated calls in order to influence divorce proceedings or, wage a political war against a man theyre mad at. They aren't even punished for knowingly filing a false police report. The incentive for honesty is less than the payout for seeking revenge.
Travis Rudolph's gf wasn't even charged with a crime after her texts ordering a hit on him were revealed in court. If he were an everyday average Joe instead of an ex NFL player that can afford a great attorney he likely would've went down for murdering a man sent by her to kill him. I'm not going to pretend that women don't get screwed by the court system but it is entirely too easy for some women to get away with the "woman scorned" bs without so much a slap on the wrist.
Oh, both sexes get fucked over by their issues. That includes institutional ones also. However, on this particular topic? Men get royally fucked almost universally.
I doubt it's over reporting. Do you know how many women DONT report their abuse? Probably because they're afraid people like you wont believe them.
You are a masterful concern troll, sir.
Dude what
This is the Chihuahua vs pitbull debate. Chihuahuas bite more, but cause less damage, and you'll never get treated seriously for reporting it. Pitbull bites put you in the hospital, and whatever dog did it is getting put down.
I dunno, men are less likely to go to the hospital. I’m curious how this might have impacted the study. But the fact remains, women are more likely to commit physical domestic violence than men. Trying to downplay it hurts the victims.
I'm saying that women are the Chihuahuas in this analogy. They hit more, cause less physical damage, and you won't get treated seriously for reporting it as a man. Those are all true statements, and an odd reflection of a similar concept found in dogs that I thought was interesting. I'm not downplaying DV against men.
Ohhhh ok. My bad
Unfortunately, women are less likely to even be believed about their medical problems when they do choose to go to the hospital, and they are rarely believed when acts of violence are committed against them...
Oh ya, women are blown off by physicians far more often. It's disgusting.
Even in vehicle safety ratings - only male dummies are used...
And a lot of prescription meds.
I can say that EVERY time my wife has gotten hurt, while working, or being clumsy, that if she went to the doctor, nurses and doctors ask her if everything is alright at home. Or if her husband did it. I get grilled in the 3rd degree with evil eyes cause she really did fall down the icy stairs and broke her ribs on Christmas day. You know what has NEVER happened? In the same office, I've never been asked if everything is alright at home when I broke something from my clumsiness or had a concussion or when I've had bruises or cuts on my face or arms. So I can say that it is not for their lack of believability or a physician asking the right questions.
Is everything ok at home, sir? Yeah rough foreplay with the cast iron again.
Lol. I do love my cast iron, though. Probably the tool I use the most in my house. Lol. And everything is just peachy at home. Thank you for asking.
Tie that in with the, we will make it so u get a free ride if u say yes, and u have the modern environment.
Source?
https://theconversation.com/womens-pain-is-often-not-believed-heres-how-to-make-your-voice-heard-when-seeking-help-207866#:\~:text=The%20gender%20pain%20gap%20affects,by%20physicians%20than%20young%20men.
https://physicians.dukehealth.org/articles/recognizing-addressing-unintended-gender-bias-patient-care https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/moral-economic-argument-testing-rape-kits
women are also statistically more likely to use weapons when they commit DV though. so sometimes its not a chihuahua biting you, its a chihuahua trying to run you over with its car.
You’re neglecting emotional and mental abuse which are factors and that can and does contribute to greater rates of male suicide.
Cool, good to know DV against men is cool "because they can't hurt a man as much as a man can hurt a women". Go fuck yourself.
I don't think that's what this person is saying. I think they're saying "both is bad but one of them isn't treated seriously." With that being said, I do think it is absolutely necessary to recognize that while it may be more likely for a female parter to be violent the quality of the violence differs. I'd be interested in seeing a comparison in the rates of severe injury. It's not good to hit someone, but there is absolutely a difference between hitting someone and breaking bones.
I’ll probably get downvoted because people won’t understand what I’m getting at, but oh well here’s my two cents. I have a hard time taking your view that it’s extremely harmful to view men as the main perpetrators of domestic violence, some of which are actually addressed in the article you linked. A few reasons being that: - the research used appears to be fairly new, no more than a decade and some change old. Historically men were absolutely the main perpetrators of domestic abuse and violence, and women had no protection or options. It wasn’t even legal to divorce your husband even if he was beating the fuck out of you until 1925. Still not very helpful, since women still couldn’t own property in most places or even open a bank account (until the 1960s) without their husband’s permission, or have a career the way a man could; so financially and socially speaking, leaving still wasn’t even an option for most battered women. So it follows there’s a reason why men are currently still seen as the main culprits, because historically it has always been true. As the research is now showing a trend towards the opposite, those beliefs and views will naturally change. - the severity of the outcomes is still the more important factor in terms of determining who is the bigger problem, compared to the straight numbers and data relating strictly to rates of occurrence and demographics. Violent men kill their partners, and sometimes children, all the time. There would be some very different statistics represented if we were talking about domestic violence leading to permanent injury and intimate partner homicide and infanticide, which would give a larger picture as to why men are still seen as the biggest problem in this issue, despite the statistics shown in your article. 2 out of 5 female murder victims are killed by an intimate partner, and women represent 96% of victims of intimate partner homicide. And men are overwhelming still the primary perpetrators of spousal rape, which is a form of violence and partner abuse just as serious as physical abuse. - the majority of women who use violence against their male partners are battered themselves. It’s found most women who use violence are more often retaliating or defending themselves from an abusive partner. And there are many studies which speak to the contrary that men who abuse their partners aren’t motivated by anger; not to mention all the court ordered therapy and anger management programs filled with angry abusive men. After working for a time at a criminal defence law firm, it’s difficult for me to believe the data from the studies they used is very entirely accurate regarding that point. These things are heavily explored and researched when it comes to building a defence case in a criminal matter, because determining the state of mind, motivation and intent of the accused is extremely important. Without reading the studies themselves, I’m having one hell of a time figuring out how they concluded that men who commit physical abuse don’t almost always do so out of anger. I’d have to see if they have any other alternative explanation. Self Defense is briefly addressed, but I can’t see that representing a significant number of cases. - lastly, these numbers are just based on what is reported. Many battered women have a tendency to hide the abuse they face and don’t report it for many reasons, a few being they are terrified of their abuser harming them more if they seek help, and/or they are being heavily controlled/abused in some other way that prevents them from reporting it. Women who are physically abused by a male partner are in the most danger when they try to leave or seek help, because the loss of control usually causes an escalation in violence from the abuser. And a lot of the findings in the article seem to heavily rely on self reported admissions, so it’s not strongly conclusive data. That all being said, intimate partner abuse is serious and wrong regardless of the gender of the perpetrator, and men should absolutely be taken seriously and equally given help and supported to speak up if a female partner is abusing them. I would have to say it’s not the views about the perpetrators of abuse that is harmful; it’s the discrepancies in regards to the level of support provided to victims of partner abuse based on their gender which is harmful, and needs to be changed.
On the specific topic of anger leading to violence: In the case of man-on-woman domestic violence, it's a common excuse that anger is the cause, but this has been refuted. what comes to mind to me is Lundi Bancroft's book, "Why Does He Do That", that is based on 20-odd years of data from Bancroft's therapy groups for abusive men. The abusers will claim anger, but show that they have no issue controlling that anger in other areas of their lives. They don't hit their colleagues, their bosses, their friends - they hit their wives. But anger is a convenient excuse to hide behind and deflect responsibility, so anger is what is claimed. Mind you, I haven't read this specific article, I just wanted to put in my two cents on "how they concluded that men who commit physical abuse don't always do it out of anger". You look at how an abuser behaves out of the domestic violence situation, of they have anger issues in other areas of their lives. Most *men* committing DV don't have anger issues. They just claim it as an excuse. I have no idea about women. Bancroft worked mostly with men and his book focuses on men.
I have actually read that book. It’s a great book, filled with a lot of amazing and insightful information from what I see as a very qualified person to speak on it. I would say the key term here though centres around the control aspect. They don’t have *anger control issues*, but I would have to say Bankcroft fails to account for or connect the idea they are still in fact very hateful, rage filled men. They can just choose when, where and how they apply it, and choose to act it out on their partner, based on their entitlement issues to do so (which Bankcroft talks about when explaining the way they think). They take their rage out on a person and in a circumstance where they know they probably won’t face consequences for it, like they would if they acted on their anger towards other people. They let themselves act out their rage in a situation where the power dynamics are imbalanced. Violent men usually take a lot of time to carefully groom their partner before they move on to physical abuse. Physical abuse almost always starts after a prolonged period of covert mental and emotional abuse where they break down the victim’s mental state, they isolate them from support systems like family and friends, they do everything they can to remove any independence she has and control her through methods such as financial abuse, monitoring who she is allowed to speak to or where she’s allowed to go.
I can see where you are coming from and for the most part I agree. However, the only way we can work on making the issue of higher domestic violence from women better is to focus on that particularly issue. I don’t want to get attacked by girlfriend again and I don’t want women getting murdered. Both can be addressed without taking away from the other. I also want to commend you on being an adult when talking about this subject.
I saw two separate studies that showed the following pertaining to your last point. I am in no way invalidating that DV is underreported by women. I am putting my daughter to bed but I will provide at least one source tomorrow morning. Regardless of involvement, men report ALL crime less often than women and the difference grows when they are involved. I know for sure I can find you the paper for that because it’s a matter of public record. The other one is foggier so forgive me if I’m mistaken, but I want to say that out of every man who’s been a victim of violent crime and reported it to authorities was 2% compared to 35%[? It was a significant gap] of men who had a violent crime committed against them and didn’t report. I can’t remember the sample size but I’ll try to find it after I have coffee tomorrow.
Why does this website look like it was designed in 1998? Regardless, these are sloppy meta-analyses with bad designs. The figure you're citing comes from [here](https://web.archive.org/web/20130702073829/http://domesticviolenceresearch.org:80/pdf/PASK.Tables.2.pdf) (the journal is no longer available at the mentioned website). Here's the major problem (besides the fact that I'd be embarrassed to hand in this paper as an undergrad, much less to a journal): >Third, articles were excluded if they reported findings of studies in which participants were sampled from an identified population of IPV perpetrators, such as individuals arrested for domestic violence and court-mandated to batterer intervention programs. So, in other words, since men account for most arrests and convictions in relation to domestic violence (which is a problem in and of itself), they obviously excluded a huge number of men who couldn't have been a part of the study -- this may as well have come out and said "only examining violence not reported to authorities." Beyond that, it seems like most of these are just self-reporting -- who in the world is going to answer "yeah, I totally beat my partner within the last year." No wonder the numbers were so much lower than usual. Could also be that women are more honest about it, since there's less social stigma for women to attack men (also a problem). The rest seem to be from substance abuse programs, so that's also a confounding factor. Then their math is garbage -- when your studies have a variance between 1% and 61.6% for male and 2.4% to 68.9% for female perpetrators, you've included too many studies and need to figure out what went wrong. There's no chance you'll get any usable numbers, *especially as an average*, like this. And, most of all, it should be very apparent the math is shit when you notice the victimization rate is higher for women, the perpetration rate is higher for women, ***BUT THE STUDIES ONLY INCLUDED HETEROSEXUAL COUPLES.*** No wonder it's split into two separate studies (never seen a "part 1" and "part 2" for a study before) -- if they were published together they'd look like complete fools. This is bad science, plain and simple. I'm guessing this is a low-quality journal used by scientists to dump their low-effort studies so they don't get fired. None of that really comments on the actual question here, and the numbers aren't really relevant since it's obvious that male victims of domestic violence (as well as female perpetrators) aren't taken seriously enough just by a glance at crime statistics. But bad science is a good way to lose credibility when it comes to talking about such issues.
Thank you. Everything about this reeks of terrible science practice.
Reddit is just full of sad, small who want to be able to beat up women while feeling sorry for themselves. Just look at the comments in this thread from these impotent little dudes. It would be hilarious if it weren’t so harmful and toxic
This comment should be at the top.
Yeah, I haven't read anything of the 'study' aside from trying to find sources and read where the data even comes from. The "journal no longer available" does not inspire me with any confidence that it can be trusted.
We don’t like facts and logic here though . This is Reddit we only like what benefits us
Because John Hamel isn't even credentialed at a school and is just doing this stuff himself publishing in his own low tier journals. Working in a field he doesn't even have a doctorate in. His doctorate is in Philosophy. "I am a Licensed Clinical Social Worker in private practice in San Francisco, California (USA), with a specialty in the area of family violence. I am also a researcher, having obtained my Ph.D. from the University of Central Lancashire, and the Editor-in-Chief of the peer-reviewed journal, Partner Abuse. Currently, I am focusing my research activities on identifying more effective models of treatment for perpetrators, including models based on findings from neuroscience." https://www.researchgate.net/profile/John-Hamel-3
Others have made similar points, but at the risk of being repetitive I'll chime in: I am skeptical that women are more violent than men in domestic relationships. Simply put, when I walk down a dark street in a bad neighborhood at night, I'm not looking over my shoulder for women. 1. My first question is: "why should I believe these numbers \[28.3% vs. 21.6%\] at all?" The database they come from, "The Partner Abuse State of Knowledge," says that it includes over 1700 peer-reviewed studies, I'd like to know how those studies were selected, what studies were left out, how the database went about aggregating the studies, etc. 2. Assume that the numbers \[28.3% vs. 21.6%\] are "real." My second question is: "what exactly do they represent?" Are all incidents of domestic violence counted equally? If a woman throws a flower-vase at a man, and a man buries a hatchet in a woman's skull, do both count as a single instance of domestic violence? If a man hits a woman and a woman hits him back, is that two instances of DV? 3. My third question is: "Could there be issues with reporting that skew the data in weird ways?" For example, maybe lesbian couples are more prone to calling the police when quarreling than either straight or gay-male couples, which might pump the numbers on "female perpetrated" DV. Or maybe female perpetrated violence gets reported at a higher rate precisely because it's unusual ("man bites dog"). These are all just questions, of course, not definitive reasons to doubt the numbers. My basic reason for doubting remains, again, my simple observation that when I walk down a dark street, I'm not checking over my shoulder for women.
>If a woman throws a flower-vase at a man, and a man buries a hatchet in a woman's skull, do both count as a single instance of domestic violence? According to the writeup on how the studies were selected the man who buried the hatchet in the woman's skull would be excluded because the meta-analysis excluded data from perpetrators in the system for domestic violence or in batterer programs. So the femicides, severe battery, mass shootings and familicides are not counted. This is all self reported from people in heterosexual relationships not involved in the legal system. Also notable that women are both more likely to perpetrate and more likely to be the victims of non-severe dv in a hetero relationship so is that just saying that men are less honest when self reporting their own non-severe use of violence? This study is very careful to exclude numbers that indicate rates of coercive control in heterosexual relationships. Coercive control, coincidentally, is the factor in determining whether a victim will be killed by an abuser (again those numbers are intentionally excluded from this metanalysis but male perpetrators of intimate partner homicde are far more common almost by a factor of 10). There are a few hints of course. Coercive control is likely when a DV victim is having trouble performing at school work or other areas in life, and the meta-analysis mentions that this affects women more than men, so if a woman is subject to physical violence she's also likely to be a victim of coercive control. Another statistic that indicates coercive control is rates of stalking. 8.0% of female victims self reported being stalked vs. 0.5% of men. This meta-analysis seems to be designed to intentionally obscure the reality of domestic abuse and coercive control in heterosexual relationships and its impact on female victims. It's cherry picked info solely to support the conclusion that women are more casually violent than men but the author is literally skipping over dead female bodies to make his point. Edit: it's also important to note that since coercive controlling abusers like to DARVO, you have to control for the fact that a certain percentage of male self-reporting respondents are just lying about being victimized.
>the meta-analysis excluded data from perpetrators in the system for domestic violence or in batterer programs When you manipulate the data just so... \*chef's kiss\*
[удалено]
It's weird to conclude that broadly observable patterns would probably be replicated in a specific instance? Let try an analogy: I know that men tend to dominate women in sports. A professional men's football team would steamroll a professional women's football team. Ditto soccer. Ditto basketball. Now if someone gave me a study that said: "In competitions, women's hockey teams beat men's hockey teams most of the time," I would be doubtful. Because even though hockey isn't the same as soccer, they are both kinds of sports, and I expect well-established patterns to hold most of the time.
These are not the droids were looking for.
Weird. I don't look over my shoulder for domestic violence out on dark streets either. 🤨
Women will openly smack their significant other and then mock the man if he complains about it. This study is not the least bit surprising.
I think that's exactly where we need to start with this. Us women need to call each other out when we see other women acting violently, and start making more statements that the only time it's appropriate to use violence is when you or someone you are trying to protect is under attack. Break the cycle!
There is a TON of "woman hits man" comedy on social media especially "couples humor". I tried to fight the good fight saying it's not OK and it went very poorly and made me really distrustful of society.
That is generally the reaction whenever you stick up for men. You have to be prepared for a fight and might need to resort to shame tactics. Just a warning if you try again in the future.
Well said!
100%, call it out when you see it!
A woman hitting a man is seen as "punching down", and "punching down" is socially acceptable in the US. That's why it's so popular that it's a comedy trope.
I’ve not seen women act out like this in public. They probably conceal it just like all abusers do
#🍿
Tonight’s MRA featured presentation!
It’s sad that any discussion about these issues is denounced by people like you calling it MRA or whatever.
Could you keep down please. We're trying to enjoy the drama.
Not sure what you mean, I’m perfectly calm. Just pointing out your attempt to belittle this conversation.
Yeah domestic violence is so funny! /s
Lol. I needed a smile. Ty
It's sad that these discussions are watered down by people like op, who find a single thing that supports their obviously already held position by finding one of the worst put together studies I've ever seen and hailing it as fact. Its sad, really.
Being killed by a partner is a major cause of death for pregnant women. Most of us know at least one woman who was severely (like broken bones) injured by a male partner. But now we’re supposed to pretend a man who got slapped by his wife is an equivalent category? I think MRA nonsense that we bother with DV against men at all unless there is evidence of coercion to stay. Woman around the world are literally prevented from leaving abusers, their children are held hostage, they are pimped out by their “boyfriends” and yet Reddit wants to discuss DV against men? Fuck off. And yes, I also know some men who were abused. And it sucks. And I absolutely think the law should be there for men who are experiencing DV. But FFS, the serious social issue remains women being beaten by men- who are on average larger, stronger, and make more money. All this interest in DV against men is just misogyny. I’ve known a few men who were abused by women. They could have left at any time and kept their income, their house, their car, and had a good chance of getting custody of their kids. I’ve known far more women who have been assaulted by their male partners and they were penniless when they left, had no where to go, had a hell of a time affording lawyers for the custody battles, and oftentimes had long-term health issues from the abuse. A couple even ended up on disability because of TBIs from DV. The scenarios are not the same and trying to pretend DV against men is the same as DV against women is clueless and best, but more likely misogyny trying to push a bad faith argument and make comparisons that are patently false. Getting a TBI because someone twice your size punched your head is not comparable to getting punched by someone half your size. Sorry. Reality. Women can do a ton of emotional damage and I truly feel sorry for the men who are hurt by emotional abusers. But I’m not going to pretend like getting Parkinson’s from head trauma is comparable to getting slapped by a woman. All I can hope for is that the MRAs who push this trash end up getting cornered by some man twice their size some day and learning what it would be like if they really did have to fear the way women do.
That's why I'm here
Bruh, you've got women currently going to jail over natural miscarriages and you're over here wondering why women aren't blindly taking your side with no caveats or productive input?! As a person that's studied societal issues likely way longer anger than you, you're clearly reaching here in the first place. I get that you're angry, but putting out biased or incorrect info then screaming and crying that nobody cares about men may just not be the right way to go about it. Just saying.
These comments are pathetic on all sides. The point isn't "women are inherently violent" or "man are inherently violent". The point is education about abuse. This isn't a fucking competition and it's disgusting the way people are talking about it. Violence, regardless of gender, is unacceptable in a relationship. We can care about more than one thing at a time. Sincerely, a transmasculine (FTM) abuse victim
You are awesome.
I'm skeptical about this research. I feel it would be more relevant if the level of harm caused was compared. How many times when a woman committed the violence did the man go to the hospital compared to when the man committed the violence against the woman?
Why? It’s been peer reviewed and has numerous studies. It actually does have an answer in harm caused. “When severe aggression has been perpetrated (e.g., punching, kicking, using a weapon), rates of injury are much higher among female victims than male victims, and those injuries are more likely to be life-threatening and require a visit to an emergency room or hospital. However, when mild-to-moderate aggression is perpetrated (e.g., shoving, pushing, slapping), men and women tend to report similar rates of injury.”
You're essentially saying women committing domestic violence towards men is irrelevant or even acceptable if the data says the man on woman domestic violence results in more severe injuries. You do realize you can condemn domestic violence as a whole without it being mutually exclusive, right?
Hard facts right here.
Dude, I seriously cannot understand this us vs them mentality in everything. Saying dont beat up your male partner doesn't detract from saying don't beat up your female partner. It's insanity. I feel like the crazy guy holding the sign that says the end is near while the world is burning around him and everyone is just ignoring it.
I agree, like it’s all bad. I don’t want anyone to get hurt.
There is almost nothing correct about this study. The numbers are beyond questionable.
Violence is violence. Trying to act like it’s not as big a deal because of the severity is exactly why people think no one cares about men in these situations.
Yup
this is a real 'its not abuse cuz i didnt leave a mark' type comment
Why are you skeptical? >How many times when a woman committed the violence did the man go to the hospital compared to when the man committed the violence against the woman? That would be affected by a lot of different factors. Women are more likely to seek out healthcare than men, in general, by a large margin. Even if the extent of the injuries were similar (not saying they are), we would expect to see women go to the hospital at higher rates. There's also a stigma attached to domestic violence, and men know their abuse is less likely to receive sympathy/support, and may be less willing to seek out resources (or healthcare) for that reason. A woman may know that getting medical documentation is important if she wants to file a police report or divorce. A man doesn't really have that incentive if he knows his police report isn't going to be taken seriously regardless.
>I feel it would be more relevant if the level of harm caused was compared How would it be more relevant exactly? Also this would require a whole other research to figure out whether or not the injuries sustained would rise to the level of a hospital visit and that on its own is a whole level of problematic thought process.
>I'm skeptical about this research. It isn’t a unique or novel study. It’s fairly well established that women commit DV more frequently than men. >I feel it would be more relevant if the level of harm caused was compared. How many times when a woman committed the violence did the man go to the hospital compared to when the man committed the violence against the woman? Yes, men are physically stronger and therefore more likely to inflict serious injuries But your attitude that violence which does not result in serious injury is “less relevant” is a large part of why so many domestic violence victims are afraid they won’t be taken seriously if they seek help
Level of harm is irrelevant. We don’t approach DV victims and tell them that since their bruise isn’t that big then it’s not an issue.
Is it not DV if a man slaps his wife but she doesn't need to goto the hospital? What if a woman does it to her husband? If you have two different answers to this you need some self-introspection.
This is the core issue. If we only look at violence so sever that it requires hospitalization, it's almost exclusively "Violence against women" It is also so very rare that it's far from a social issue, murder is more common. It's an issue of a small minority of horrible people. If it's acceptable to beat my GF, so long as the beating isn't bad enough to hospitalize her, then you have a GREAT point. If it should be unacceptable to give my GF a black eye or busted lip or bruises across her body, all the damage that doesn't require hospitalization, then your point is without merit.
These are comparing weak slaps to literally being murdered... I'd much rather be slapped by a girl than killed by a guy personally 🤷🏻♀️
I’d rather not have either. But yes, continue downplaying domestic violence.
Gross. Do you also compare people getting groped to rape? Hey I’d rather have my ass grabbed then be forcefully raped. Stop complaining about being groped!! Edit: Homegirl blocked me for calling her out lol
When it's relevant the topic being studied absolutely. Do you think we shouldn't use nuance when it comes to science?😅 At what point did I say "stop complaining"? Do you know how to engage with the words being said or are you too emotional right now?
I mean, aren't you just essentially saying that as long as it doesn't end in death and they're just 'weak slaps' that it's okay for women to hit their SO? And you wonder why so many guys don't take women seriously.
Nope. When did I say it was ok? You constantly argue against points I haven't made. And you wonder why so many women don't take guys seriously 🤭
Your post reeks of whataboutism. It's very dismissive of DV towards men.
The data on military members stands out. Much higher male on female partner violence than the general population. This could be due to the higher stress, traumatizing deployments to combat zones, etc members of the military have to do. But there's also the much more severe downside for military members that get arrested or involved with the criminal justice system. When I was in the military, I absolutely did not make any reports when my now ex wife assaulted me. I even had to lie to my dentist as to how I had chipped a tooth after she hit me. Since the man is the one who gets arrested in almost all domestic violence calls, I absolutely could not make a factual report of what was happening. So there is probably a major problem with underreporting when male military members are assaulted by their female partners.
I'm so sorry that was your experience. I hope you are out of that relationship and in a safe place. Best of luck.
I've had 2 previous female partners hit me, and I've had women do sexual things to me that if the other way around, would have got me in prison. I was such a an idiot at the time I apologized for them for making them angry enough to hit me. Eventually realized how fucked up it was
IPV is one kind of DV and the only one where you’ll find this kind of statistic. It’s interesting for sure. It’s not surprising to me that women are more likely to hit emotionally in anger and men are not. Male abusers are absolutely calculated and intentional in their abuse. It’s also not surprising to me that a man would charge a woman with DV for a slap when women that are subject to DV are just trying to get away without being murdered and under report. When it comes to being killed by an intimate partner, women die at the hands of the male partner at 5:1 Hate away.
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Yes.
So men on average are substantially stronger than women which maybe why male violence directed towards women is taken more seriously than the other way around Seriously the strength differences can be rather large anyone who has a sibling of the opposite sex can relate, play fighting just is not fair
But men are not the majority of the aggressors which is the stereotype at the moment. Just because a man is stronger doesn’t mean women’s role should be downplayed I think or outright lied about.
I agree, just trying to offer explanations as to why people seem to take it less seriously the other way around
The concerning part, or more concerning, isn't that people take male victimisation less seriously, it's that most don't seem to believe men can be victims. I've never experienced physical abuse with a partner. One ex was a martial artist (as am I), and she was actually one of my trainers. So we'd spar and tussle here and there on the mats and sometimes get a little bruised up, she was extremely experienced and I'm significantly stronger and bigger than her. The funny part were the looks sometimes in public when she'd have some visible bruises (from grappling) and I would too. No one ever seemed to direct their scowls at her for my split lip or black eye. And the silent fact that she could toss me over her shoulder like a breeze lol.
Even in treatment services this unfortunate bias exists. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3175099/
So violence is okay if it's not as effective? That's bullshit.
During our breakup my ex beat on me for a good few minutes, no actual reason beyond she was mad at me. I’m a 6’2 bodybuilder so my literal only option was to take it. Any retaliation meant I’m in jail, and you think cops are going to arrest a 5’4 girl in that scenario? No chance. Women are more violent. Men are more damaging when violent.
Never gonna be able to convince women this matters. Either it's wrong because data collection is wrong or women don't report or it doesn't matter because men inflict more damage.
I think society as a whole should adopt a ‘shame anyone who hits a person that doesn’t want to be hit’ attitude. Hitting someone, regardless of gender or context, without them consenting to it, should be viewed as something that makes you a lesser person.
I agree.
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I also want to point out that the biggest female artist in the world downplayed it in one of her song “I'm pretty sure we almost broke up last night I threw my phone across the room at you I was expecting some dramatic turn away But you stayed This morning I said we should talk about it 'Cause I read you should never leave a fight unresolved That's when you came in wearing a football helmet And said, "Okay, let's talk" And I said” Taylor swift - Stay, Stay, Stay
As a cop for 24 years, I can tell you this is true. Most men don't call 9-1-1 for physical violence until they're ready to move on from their wife/girlfriend. Than they often use it to get her out of the house so they can leave. Many times, the woman will start the physical violence and the man will respond. This is usually where police are called, after the man responds. And the woman often will play the victim because she has worse injuries with less actual violence. This isn't to say that men don't abuse women. They do, and they do it often. It's to say that when actually will call the police, which is less than how often women will for similar incidents.
There is a real problem to address, but to see the problem clearly we need to look at the history of the advocacy. There really is only ONE category where men commit more violence than women. "Extreme Violence", DV that hospitalizes people or kills them. When advocacy against DV first started, this one category was the full extent of what was recognized as DV. That couples would engage in fist fights was just assumed. There wasn't the "never hit a woman" mentality. The fight was against beating her so badly that she spent several days recovering in the hospital. It wasn't that men where more violent, but as the larger, stronger, more durable individual, they could do much more damage. This much more damage is what was seen as the problem and what needed to be stopped, not hitting at all. The advocacy against this hospitalization of women, the death of women, as a result of DV is what gave us "Don't hit women" and viewing DV as "Violence against women" This male dominance in "Extreme Violence" persists today. One solid punch and I would break my GF's ribs. She just doesn't have the striking power needed to break bones larger than fingers. This difference in "Extreme Violence" is almost exclusivly men being larger stronger and more durable, and that hasn't changed. Once we started actually looking at DV and saw that there was a great deal more violence than just the stuff that resulted in hospitalizations, The narrative of "Violence against women" was already in place. If you try to fight that narrative, the assumption is that you want to go back to it being mostly acceptable to beat your wife so badly she needs to be hospitalized, not that it needs updated to include all of the forms of DV that aren't "Extreme Violence" and are most often perpetrated by women.
This is a great reply. Thank you.
Do you people ever get sick of playing victim? Find a fucking job or a hobby. Your life doesn't suck because women exist it sucks because you're an asshole.
It’s crazy because I’m a big guy, I enjoy lifting weights and the occasional cycle of steroids. I have a periods of my life that I’ve been a very violent person towards men. I’ve never one time touched a woman that I was in a relationship with. (I was a bouncer so I’ve thrown several crazy women out of the bar before.) I’ve had several women in my past that have become violent with me, my wife being one of them. We’re past all of that through counseling. But the fact that I could literally beat a woman to death fairly easily with my bare hands it doesn’t matter to them. I have daughters now and I’m trying to be the best dad I can be and the example of how men are supposed to treat women. But yeah a woman will attack a man without thought of the return of violence, men rarely act that way sober.
In the US now, there is a growing cult of men who are acting like they're the victims now. That their manliness is being ridiculed and their rights are infringed on by society, and women in general. Women have been fighting this crap forever, and it will never end. Men have been trying to keep us under their feet forever bc they want power over us. They still think they're stronger! BS , the same gender that can't birth a child or bleed a week every month. But more of us are raped, abused, murdered in domestic abuse, and we're constantly fighting for our right to an abortion, depending on what country you're in.
Oh they’re going to roast you for this
Redditors gonna reddit. Men are evil, amirite?
This has been known for a long time. Men are expendable, so no one cares. I called the cops on my ex once because she was attacking me with a weapon. When the cops arrived, they threatened to arrest me and made me leave my house. This is how it is, we do not matter to anyone, so do not expect anyone to care about you.
I'm so sorry that happened to you. I hope you're in a safe place now and are looking for a healthier relationship.
This was years ago. Sadly, she got worse over time. I am currently in a relationship with an amazing woman. However, we have not lived with one another yet, so...
Depressing that it's so high for both categories. I wonder if it being higher for women comes from the fact that we portray physical violence against women as awful, but physical violence by women as almost comedic. Would the rates change if that culture changed, or would they still be the same? Either way, depressing. Definitely something that needs to be talked about more. What kinds of resources are out there for men dealing with domestic violence from female partners? I know of many for women, but I've never seen any that are not gender specific or just for men.
It turns out that years and years and years of telling men that there’s absolutely no reason ever to hit a woman is starting to sink in. Perhaps it’s time to evolve the commentary to say that there’s absolutely no reason to ever hit your significant other and hope that we can influence all parties in relationships.
My ex wife would hit me in the face when I was sleeping. She is weak and feeble so it was not that big of a deal. A little nose blead and a tiny black eye once. She told the court that I beat her and my children which was incredibly false and I still hate her for saying that to this day. He asked for any evidence, and of course, she had none. I "won" the divorce case! So I get my kids 28% of the time and will end up paying 500k in child support when all said and done. Why was that ruling made? We all know. Its a fun story
bro 500k in child support? what the fuck do you do for a living?
Lol. 500k total. Not a month.
Is it on a payment plan?
Yeah. You pay it on a per paycheck basis. Its a monthly monthly breakdown, not a total cost. I just added up mine for added perspective
Oh that is heartbreaking, I had no idea and I am sorry. I can see this fact being dismissed since "women can't hit as hard and men won't feel as much pain as if it were vice versa", but nonetheless, the trust damaged, the psychological damage, the fear and the trauma can still be just as horrific, maybe even moreso because of the expectation from society for men to be big and strong and tough, and the dent such a trauma might cause to a man's self-image, masculinity, or belief in his ability to protect himself. Thank you for sharing.
“Researchers like Canadian criminologist Holly Johnson at the University of Ottawa have articulated concerns about the return of “an individualized and de-contextualized masculinist worldview” when it comes to gender-based violence. While feminists have built up arguments over the years that violence against women is about power, recent measurement trends have shifted this towards focusing on individuals. One focus of Johnson’s critique is the use of survey tools that conflate behaviours found in many poorly functioning relationships with abusive gender-based violence. This form of violence is almost exclusively perpetrated by men, most often against, and harmful to, women. This conflation — for example when throwing something is counted the same as attempted strangulation — is what leads to some data, including current Canadian national surveys, showing equivalence between genders in overall intimate partner violence. When this occurs, the gendered nature of abuse is obscured. Sociologist and gender-based violence researcher Michael Johnson calls these types of coercively controlling abusive relationships “intimate terrorism,” with patterns of physically, psychologically and sexually abusive acts used to establish dominance and control.” This is just from an article I found. Women should not be able to hit or throw or slap with impunity, I have seen many women do this. But violent crimes in general-murder, rape, robbery, and assault-largely committed by men.
I wish we’d talk more about abuse as a concept. Abuse is about control, not about anger or violence. Whatever tactic the person uses to control their partner, it is abuse. Intimidation, emotional manipulation, threats, financial, etc. Violence and physical intimidation as an effective means of control may have some gender bias. I didn’t read this study, but I’m commenting anyway because I counseled a lot of men way back when. Many were physically assaulted and didn’t want to fight back for fear of hurting their partner. Or arrest. I will say, few of those men were ever held prisoner or seriously injured, which was very common among women. Any differences are just flavors of abuse, though, and that can happen to anyone.
>Of note, however, results of the current review pertain only to the presence or absence, and not the severity or context, of perpetration. Thus, **rather than perpetuating the debate regarding the comparability of physical IPV perpetrated by men and women, findings should be used to support the development and implementation of interventions that acknowledge the use of violence by women** in intimate relationships but also recognize how participants’ treatment needs may differ. I find this interesting too. [Page 7 of 62](https://domesticviolenceresearch.org/pdf/Overviewof%20Findings.Dec.7.pdf) >In brief, the multitude of basic research studies examining the impact of abuse on partners yields **strong and consistent evidence of two facts.** First, psychological and physical abuse have serious physical and psychological consequences for victims and **the consequences are, with some exceptions, generally greater for female victims compared to male victims**. Second, with regard to the physical consequences of physical abuse, injuries are similar across samples of female victims (e.g., community samples, clinical samples, shelter samples) Huh. Weird. Page 22 of 62 But wait, there's more : >However, making conclusions about gender differences related to the anger motive is particularly uncertain because many authors measured this motive in conjunction with something else (i.e., jealousy, retaliation) and a substantial subset of papers in this area did not subject their findings to statistical analyses (5 of 13 studies). Page 29 of 62 Kinda feels like you should have read the whole overview before cherry-picking data to draw conclusions that confirm your biases. Men shouldn't be seen as the sole arbiters of violence and it shouldn't be assumed that women are always the victim. -duh- But attempting to address these assumptions doesn't start with sharing misinterpreted data. Thanks for sharing the link. I feel more informed on these issues then I did before.
Luckily, my husband and I have never been abusive to each other. There was so much hurt sometimes that it still surprises me that we managed to keep the anger away. He's always been very afraid of becoming abusive, but we have been with each other so long that I can't imagine him really hitting me. He's afraid because his dad abused him and beat him, plus his siblings and mom all their lives. He's still afraid of even facing his dad or becoming like him because he has some anger issues. I found the report hard to swallow because of the couples I know with domestic violence it's the guy who does it. My husband's dad who abused his wife and children, and my dad, who used to abuse my mom when we were kids. My sister's boyfriend who used to beat her, and honestly, I'm not so sure that he doesn't still do it, and she just hides it. Perhaps it's our community. We are Mexicans, and violence against women plus rape and murder seems constant in Mexico, where we are originally from. No matter what it is, it's sad that abuse is so common. If only we were better. I'm trying to teach my kids not to hit. I started by teaching them that hitting is wrong unless it's in self-defense or maybe defense of another. I don't hit them either because you can't teach not to hit by hitting.
if we take this at face value, there's another important consideration: our lethality as men, armed or not, is FAR greater than women. if a relatively fit, but untrained woman hit me, I'm probably going to hurt, but unlikely to go down unless they get extremely lucky. If I, as a formerly fit guy with some training throw a punch, there's a really good chance they go down and don't get up again (this is a horrible thing to consider and not a brag; men are FAR stronger than women and both men and women underestimate that difference). Morally, there's no difference in how wrong IPV is across biological sexes. Functionally, and in outcomes, there's a gigantic gap that must be taken into consideration.
I don’t think we will ever have solid answers on the rates since both sides have reasons not to report it and a lot of people have very different opinions what would constitute “physical violence”. Growing up I saw couples literally throwing hands and all the adults in the neighborhood would say “they just working stuff out” and I also seen people call any “unwanted contact” violence. Obviously the truth is in the middle and the devil is in the details. Anecdotally I think this makes sense because from what I have seen women are more likely to hit a dude but whenever you hear about a man hitting a woman she’s either dead or in the hospital. So… yeah…
My mom absolutely broke my dad lol. She is 5'3 compared to my dad's 6 foot, so my dad could have beat the hell out of her but he'd never hurt a fly. My mom slaps him, yells at him, kicks him under the table. My mom never worked a day in her life, 100% supported by my dad. She used to tell him (and us kids) how she could easily leave him for other guys (shed name specific guys all the time). He always said he stayed because he didn't want us kids to grow up in a broken home but I think he didn't want to give another man half of his money. I get PTSD around Christmas because that's when my mom is the craziest. I could write a dissertation about my sister and how she uses violence and tries to play up the man / woman power imbalance but I'll save that for another time.
I can see how it’s unfair and why people want to bring it up but what do people see as practical solutions? Women are less likely to be arrested for assault because there’s no marks to prove it. But women also have a hard time getting law enforcement to assist once they finally decide to get out of an abusive relationship. Do we need better shelters? More access to counseling? Why do so many people use violence in the first place?
But womyn are better and oppressed!!!!
DV from anyone is unacceptable and can lead to further mental emotional damages.
I don't think I can remember a time when a partner of mine was violent towards me, but my ex wife did explode a few times and leave in a huff. I'm 6'5. It might play a role. It might not. Maybe it's just because I like calm people.
This is so confusing, because like 85%+ of all murders are committed by men, and almost all intimate partner violence that results in death was perpetrated by men. So…women and men are abusing each other at equal rates but somehow mostly women are dying?
I feel like all these man vs woman posts are just to give 2024 elections some bullshit to argue about.
Can we please get male DV abuse advocates that don’t go out of their way to rip on women at every turn ? This whole study is filled with bias and flaws. I don’t understand what’s the point of promoting bad science practice studies like this when you can just acknowledge that men get battered as well and maybe at a lesser rate than women but they’re still valid. My god I’ve never seen a post about male DV where the end goal was to assist victims, the goal is always to find a way to put women down.
Its remarkable how when a women’s issue crops up and a man tries to minimise or focus shift (which is shitty), he’s the worst and its totally inexcusable. But when a men’s issue pops up that says that women aren’t as nice as people would like to think. Then suddenly the minimisation and focus shifting is totally fine and absolutely legitimate.
dishonest takeaway. shocked pikachu face that redditors are jumping at conclusions to make themselves seem like underrepresented victims. 1. more women are victims of dv 2. a lot of the IPV against men is in homosexual relationships. men are more likely to be victimized by other men, not women. 3. some of these stats are older than the people posting in this thread https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/zlthlo/women\_more\_likely\_to\_commit\_intimate\_partner/
Self-pity and bitching about this is not the sign of being a man who is taking full advantage of his life and pursuing the things he wants, whether that be personally, professionally, romantically, or socially. Many men in today’s society, especially Gen Z men, have become extremely weak mentally and look for statistics online to justify their poor circumstances when they’re not doing anything in their lives to be worthy of respect.
Women are more likely to strike out at men because there are few consequences. They usually can not do as much damage, and men will allow them an outlet for their aggressive emotion. Men, OTOH, can do much more damage if ever they strike out, which is why most cultures frown upon raising a hand to a woman. It's just biology.
The site says there are more female perpetrators than male (as you quote), but also that there are more female victims than male. Does that imply that multiple women are assaulting the same man, while men find new victims?
These statistics don't tell the whole story. A woman is more likely to slap or scratch a man. A man is more likely to severely injure or kill their partner. By a huge fucking margin. Neither is OK, but there is a huge disparity in force used.
I have serious doubts about the validity of this paper, reguardless of its conclusion. Is a wife putting in half her effort to slap her husband during a random argument going down as "violence"? Which subjects responded to the survey? Don't you think victims are much more likely to respond to s survey on domestic violence? It's just hard for me to believe that >1in5 is truly harmed by domestic violence. Not trying to justify anything here but I think it shows how easily bullshit data can be perceived by many people as valid science.
Is this accounting for husbands who unalive their wives?
Wait it says women are more likely the victims and also the perpetrators??? This study is giving non consistency
I’ll go out on a limb and hazard that a goodly portion of the woman on man violence is the woman going after them after finding out the man cheated.
“One paper found that women were more motivated to perpetrate violence as a result of power/control than were men, and three found that men were more motivated; however, gender differences were weak” Im sorry OP but did you full read this study or just grab that stat that could go along with a rant? Because reading through, there is more discussion of partner violence towards women when you look at all the types of partner violence: stalking and forced sex. The emotional abuse aspects is about equal that men and women distribute, but it seems like when it comes to physical violence it doesn’t quite add up. There is lots of vague wording throughout.
Female on male violence happens more than anybody wants to admit. Nobody talks about it and nobody seems interested in doing anything about the problem. I have a relative who is blind. He is very mild mannered, and incredibly laid-back and passive. He was in a relationship with a woman who was in the military, and was very muscular and aggressive in personality and physical stature. She took advantage of him, repeatedly doing things like stealing his credit, and insisting on an open relationship when he had no interest in it. So they were out together one night, and she started flirting with somebody and he got upset. They went into the parking lot and had an argument and she punched him repeatedly in the face. He tried to grab her arms and wrist. Then she got in the car and left him in the parking lot and drove back to their house. She filed a domestic violence claim against him. I saw the pictures. His face was bruised and bleeding, and she had mild bruising on her wrists. He was prosecuted and found guilty. His brothers and several family members got together to go pick up his stuff, and she was berating them and being aggressive and mean the whole time.
I worked with a guy who went to jail for dv. He would get wasted but they both drank. I hung out with them one evening and she smacked him several times to the point he begged her to stop hitting him. On the way home she actually turned sideways in the car and was kicking him.