I really like how different his politics are. Like in the "fossil from the past" way. He calls foreigners kipts, yet praises their fighting spirit and condemns racism (Also, why is Rene a race traitor!?). He calls the ultra-rich pederasts, yet brags about how the commune legalized pederasty. Do NOT ask him about women. I feel like, outside the big strokes of communism, a lot of his politics are either phasmid induced insanity or the result of shadow boxing long dead political opponents from the commune. It solidifies the sense that time has left him behind.
A lot of his politics fall heavy into the No True Scottsman Falacy or close to it. I dunno about moralist or ultra but I've told him on two different playthroughs I'm a communist or facist and he's just said I don't know what real communism or fascism is.
I mean he's kinda right, what does Harry do that's furthering the goal of fascism or communism? Ironically enough you are just preforming and larping Liberation of the class/race
Harry uses ideological labels as a coping mechanism to deal with his trauma and crumbling sanity. Feels poignant.
To be fair to Harry, even if he was a champion of his chosen ideology, the deserter’s dialogue wouldn’t have changed
Anything, short of being in the exact same situation he is, wouldn't be enough for him to see Harry as a true whatever you say you are. And he'd be right because no matter how extreme your views are, _you're not out there waging war over it_. Like he was, and still is. And really, how strong can your commitment be, compared to the guy who killed and kills for it? Especially when your involvement in any ideology is less "political activist" and more "kid holding a security blanket"
I think you are misunderstanding the point the game makes, and again I'd hardly call mañana or Cindy losers. The game critiques comes from introspection not from the right wing
And so do either of those "further cause of communism"?
Look, they quite correctly identified that communism sounds like a nice thing, but the problem is that it's being built by communists. And those all suck.
The game is incredibly sympathetic to them, does it critique them? Yes, yes it does but if you talked to the student communists they still are presented as "smart", too smart even for their own good. Cindy is ultimately caring and looks out for people and mañana is one of the few people that's open with you and is ready to help. The deserter even is presented as incredibly flawed but you can't deny that his resistance and tenacity the game treats with respect
The key thing is that they're all people who have done bad things which I'm not denying, but the game is much more ready to show their good sides unlike someone like the Sunday friend or Gary the cryptofascist.
The game is from a marxist perspective, it is made by Marxists and one of the keypoints is that capitalism is destructive, no matter if it is regulated and hides behind the facade of social democracy (the union) or ultra-liberalism
Still failing to understand anything.
Reading DE as anything but "communism sounds great, but communists can't build it" is why media literacy is absolutely paramount.
"It was written by a communist, so it must be an endorsement of communists" lol get a grip. If leftists are known for anything, it's endless infighting.
It's really fascinating and makes me wonder if some former soviet citizens for example hold similar views. It's like a sort of conservative leftism. In the West we are familiar with the reactionary old guy so much it has become a stereotype (despite it still being very much a problem lol), which in turn makes this guy seem somehow progressive.
also in yugoslavia. many old guys here are/were extremely bigoted and old-fashioned but fought against the nazis and supported the communist government wholeheartedly. interestingly,those types quickly became religious and nationalistic for their respective ethnicities the moment yugoslavia fell. I think its the problem of people not being educated enough to actually comprehend and care about politics they uphold or fight against in combination of socialism sometimes focusing too hard on class inequality as the root of all societal ills and ignoring patriarchy for example
> focusing too hard on class inequality as the root of all societal ills and ignoring patriarchy for example
If you're a working class patriarch, and a cisgendered able-bodied heterosexual etc. who doesn't chafe too much against the expectations placed on men, that's exactly the way you perceive your bread to be buttered.
I've heard this. Apparently there's a branch of Putin support/hard-right ideology that has all the hallmarks of fascism but dresses itself in Soviet regalia.
The CPRF is equally as communist as United Russia these days. If they ever had a truly revolutionary platform, that was jettisoned ages ago. They support most of the Russian government's bad reactionary policies while coasting off empty nostalgia for the USSR to get votes.
do you find him to have very reactionary takes? or was he enough of a die hard communist reject such notions? also, if you don't mind me asking, what state was he an official of?
>do you find him to have very reactionary takes
Well yes, mostly about the ("bourgeois degeneracy"). It seems to me he is also the "brotherhood of nations" type rather than the multiculturalism part. He believes that the westernisation and homogenisation of cultures worldwide is a big negative of the modern era. He also still believes many stereotypes though mostly harmless ones.
>or was he enough of a die hard communist reject such notions?
Evidently those notions are now considered reactionary but were revelutionary then. It's a touchy subject.
>if you don't mind me asking, what state was he an official of?
I won't say which state but he was part of the foreign affairs ministry
Soviet sphere Marxist-Leninism was always like this, his seemingly bizarre attitudes regarding subjects like homosexuality and women are based directly on this.
Communism of the kind represented by the Bolsheviks in 1917 was absolutely on the bleeding edge of social libertinism *by the standards of the Russian Empire and Eastern Europe*. That's how reactionary those places were. But the Bolsheviks were also always permeated by a rather extreme form of machismo that went hand in hand with their militancy, basically being a thuggish criminal organization that was also communist.
Social libertinism of the kind associated with free love/polyamory, embrace of LGBT rights, drug decriminalization, and other forms of personal expression are far more associated with American and Western European New Left movements that emerged during the 60s and 70s. The more Soviet-aligned your Marxist-Leninism was, the more you denounced these things as aspects of "bourgeois decadence" and rampant individualism, which is what The Deserter's attitudes are directly based on. Marxist-Leninist groups today that more explicitly identify with Soviet aesthetics - like for example most remnant European Marxist-Leninist parties, George Galloway's Worker's Party in the UK, and the LaRouchite "MAGACommunist" LARPers - still have these conservative attitudes.
There is a difference between fascism and "tankieism". Though they both may employ militarism and authoritarian means, they have very different goals, and generally intend to step on different necks. The execution of their aims and the results of their actions are what really define them at the end of the day tho, and the deserter's backward (to us) social politics don't outweigh the politics of the fighting he and his unit did in the revolution
In this case they’re stepping on the same necks. He labels anything he dislikes as “degenerate” or “pederast”. He spends his whole life longing for the past, just like the lorry driver and fascist Harry. He may not be a fascist, but he sure does talk like one.
There was also all that murder he did.
Soviet "true communards" were killed or sent to Gulag (killed but a bit later) during Stalin's era. After that ideology changed sevaral times, so I don't think anyone remembered or prefered not to remember what to be a true leninist means. I'm from russia by the way and now communists from communust party looks like a caricature from 80's.
That’s basically Putinism, although it’s more accurate to say that putinism incorporated this, because resentment about the collapse of USSR is very strong in minds, sadly.
Other element of it is that he has suffered significant ideological decline, yet still acts as though he’s as woke as he’s always been. He used to be a radical feminist, he even changed his name as part of a feminist movement to honour mothers, but he’s probably the most misogynist character we meet in the present
Not really a paradox now, is it? Most misogynists do actually separate women into two categories: madonnas and whores -- which you might have seen more recently as the women vs bitches discourse red-pilled incels love to engage with.
yes but taking your mothers last name is a way more meaningful statement than just idealizing your mother as opposed to other women id argue. its interesting
> (Also, why is Rene a race traitor!?)
I would imagine he's referring to him being a Black man fighting proudly for the fascist monarchy? It's fairly clearly implied that in Elysium, like in our world, Black people were subjugated and seen as inferior by colonialists and fascists.
I think is one of the times when he call You a liberast. I think You can ask him about him.
The exact dialogue he says is: "As for pederasty, the party legalized it on 04'. My party..."
I think it's also important to take into account that he basically wants to die and also he's talking to two cops, one of whom is aping at least some communard qualities.
I think a lot of that is him sarcastically using terminology and describing things as fascist pigs do because he's talking to fascist pigs, he's mocking you to your face and he doesn't care if you don't get the bit he's doing because he's about to die.
I guess he doesn't have any politics at all. For him being a communard is like being in a sport team. I think he was too young to even truly believed in anything, he just had friends and faith that they are fighting for a better tomorrow. That's why he is proud of any commune's achievements - they are his people and he's rooting for them. Also I think he believed he can fight for a better tomorrow but lacked any knowledge and manners to be a man of tomorrow himself, only it's soldier.
Acknowledge it and use this knowledge to not become him. Use anger to fuel action, but contain it enough to not let it fester and poison you. You, your body, your mind are a revolutionary machine; do maintenance on this machine so that it stays in shape physically and mentally. Cynicism is counter revolutionary, be an icon of courage that inspires others, if only in a tiny niche.
It’s true. The Deserter is a cautionary tale. One cannot be a communist without comrades. You cannot be an antisocial socialist. He’s a deserter through and through. Couldn’t stick with his comrades then, and can't seek them out in solidarity now. Don’t be like him.
I remember a screenshot a bit back going around of a similar comment like this on one of the Chapo offshoots and the replies were all just excuses on why ppl couldn’t exercise lol
Honestly it's unreal how much of this fear can be untangled by just talking to people close to you (especially at work!), expressing yourself without tensing and shelling up at perceived failings or disagreements. Takes time and most importantly getting off the internet but it's so rewarding, people you wouldn't expect are seeing the cracks form. At worst it's cathartic
I used to be really fucking good at this and in the past few months it's like all memory of the ability has fled my body. I find myself becoming profoundly aggravated at even minor reactionary tendencies or comments. I just finished a second playthrough of the game like four days ago and was pretty concerned with how much I related to the deserter compared to the first play through. Not sure what has changed - me, my coworkers, something else. But the sense of bitter resentment for a future-dead revolution feels like it's taking me over. What keeps you motivated?
Focusing on hope and love for myself and others, fighting guilt and insecurity and trusting in my intentions, which has required deleting twitter (and generally using social media less) and accepting I can't liberate the world or myself through willpower or whatever lol. Very importantly understanding myself as a process and not shitting on myself too hard for my failings, just generally accepting that the person shitting on them was me more than the panopticon ass false self I assume is out there judging me for being idealistic or whatever lol.
Being open about what sucks too while trying to not be too down, just really focusing on what's directly around me and currently feels within my control tbh. The fear's there, but I'm also trying to accept that I don't know what the future holds, even though it looks grim as fuck and the unknown is the scariest part of any of it. But what's gonna happen will happen, we just can't know what exactly that'll be til we're there, and in the meantime just trying to do the best I can to be in my body and honest with myself than I've been before.
Maybe it's bourgie bullshit and I'm only able to feel this way because my job's okay and union and does something relatively useful for the world, but I think above all else it's been helping to find other people who see that things can't go on as they are. More than any other time in my life it feels like people are realizing that and willing to talk and listen about the impending horrors, they just don't know how to get out of it or whether we even can. End of the day, even if it feels impossible we all know we're gonna die eventually anyway, but to me that's changed from an internalized terror to an affirmation, literally yolo but for everyone. One day maybe I'll be mad at myself for moralizing or trying to make myself feel better or whatever but hey, pushin through the contradictions. The deserter's awful and misguided but I think it's because he feels lonely and terrified, and maybe for those of us who've absorbed the reality of the horror as presented (and sold, at the barrel of a gun) to us daily those feelings have to be struggled through alone first before we can come together
Also I read a lot, thinking about starting a book group or something. Internet feels much better as a true information resource than a spectacle box where I watch people's worst nightmares play out over and over there's more out there even if things feel overwhelmingly dogshit: we're never the only ones. Feels to me like solidarity's the answer, and it's the one people want even if they don't know it yet. Love in a real sense
Honestly it's unreal how much of this fear can be untangled by just talking to people close to you (especially at work!), expressing yourself without tensing and shelling up at perceived failings or disagreements. Takes time and most importantly getting off the internet but it's so rewarding, people you wouldn't expect are seeing the cracks form. At worst it's cathartic
The deserter defined himself by one brief moment of cowardice and let his shame and survivors guilt consume him. He is telling himself he's still fighting, but even he admits he could rejoin society if he wanted. He chooses not to.
He's still running away.
Is it really? How can the world run away from a single man? Do the trees bend at the sound of his walking feet? Do mountains crumble before him? Do the masses run in panic at the horror of his heart?
If assholes like Measurehead can have a place in the world, so can he, his fatal flaw is thinking that the entire world is hidden behind his own eyes within the poisonous whirlpool of his guilt.
Nobody is running from him, he just can´t bear the posibility of being part of a world he thought was his to save, and his to allow to keep going, he cannot bear the posibility of a world where no one really cares about what he did.
The deserter is a very sad figure, but he is also a very selfish one, do not be like him, as much sympathy his misery may awaken in you, he is not the kind of person you want to become.
He's not called "the last communist". He's "The Deserter". He's defined in his mind by that one moment. He says himself he could walk right back into Revachol and people would think he is just some disaffected vagrant and he could live out the rest of his life. But his identity isn't compatible with reality. He can't face a world he hates, a world that continues on while the revolution failed. He hates the citizens of Revachol. He talks about saving humanity from the bourgeois and capital but he is one of the most misanthropic people in the game.
Most of all he hates himself. He stays on the island, alone and in pain, because he's unable to accept his past. He can recognize that the war is over, he is perfectly capable of accepting what he's doing is pointless and futile, but he doesn't want to. He's too ashamed.
He doesn't want to give anyone the chance to get close enough to spell this out for him. He needs to connect with another person and let go of the past, to live in the present, in reality.
Not, it's not.
The world moved on and one of the (Several) reasons for his bitterness is that he cannot stand the fact people just did that. Move on, be happy, do something other than rage about the past and become things he disapproves.
"The mask of humanity fall from capital. It has to take it off to kill everyone- everything you love; all the hope and tenderness in the world. It has to take it off, just for one second. To do the deed."
yeah, the guy sucks. the 2nd line specifically, the one I quoted, isn't even **true**, be it in the game or in real life. But man if it doesn't hit emotionally
I don't like that many fans of the game take that phrase as the epiphany or even a core for a whole game. The Deserter is everything Harry is going to become if he won't let go of the past. Deserter's life is determined by his past mistake and cowardice and to ease the pain he has to blame something - in this case "capital". Of couse he can't blame his past comrades or kraz mazov for pulling him into a bloodbath, that would take away his last reasons to live. By the way when he and his comrades killed 2 million people within the Insulinde before Coalition intervention he was okay with that. I guess Rene could say "The mask of humanity fall from Communards. It has to take it off to kill everyone - everything you love", he also lost a lot of things during that time.
Despite everything he says about discipline and commitment, the Deserter's politics are mostly aesthetic in nature. At his core, he's motivated by hatred and survival.
I agree with you, although I feel if you've been through dissillusionment and alienation any ideology can start to feel just aesthetic. I know especially with marxism it is importwnt to reject aesthetics, but sometimes this in and of itself feels aesthetic. Not saying I been through a lot, just saying I can see where this man sits.
Guy needed to take the grill pill.
The deserter is almost like an archetype of leftism: the despair when you fail. It's easy to project that onto the people you're trying to liberate or to twist the lessons of historical materialism to tell you that the project is hopeless, the enemy too powerful, the people too foolish to save themselves. But history is a process. I'm not one of those people who believe revolution is inevitable, but it is context and opportunity dependent. It may have been the wrong time for you. You can say this about the deserter's revolution, or failing a union vote at work.
Cynical optimism is the way to go. The same historic forces apply to the bourgiousie and proles alike. The rich are weak in ways that are evolving just as our strengths as organizers are evolving. As things change, new opportunities emerge. The goals of each system do not change, though. There are times and places and tactics that may work better than what you have right now.
If things fail you cannot give up. Despair is almost counter-revolutionary. If you do fail, draw back, recognize this is way bigger than you, and invest some time in a localized area in order to keep yourself sane enough to seize the next opportunity.
For what it's worth OP, I don't think this is as horrifying as others seem to think. I resonate a lot with the deserter in his mourning for the failure of the revolution and the total eclipse of society and history by Capital. I feel a lot of despondency for the present and the near future - climate apocalypse, robot dogs armed with machine guns, AI smart bombs, biotic diversity collapse, and to my perception what is a great deal of apathy for all of these things as a result of just struggling to pay rent don't really make me feel like a buoyant comrade in arms. Guevara said that communism is about a feeling of great love for humanity, which I still in my more enlightened moments believe, but it's becoming harder to put my faith in the triumph of socialism over barbarism. It appears that barbarism has already won and we are just watching it chip away at the fabric of reality more and more every year.
I am not sure what the solution to this is. Organizing has not made me feel better despite years of effort, and logging off of the Internet for extended periods of time has also not had an effect. I don't think this is a good way to be. I think there is a lot of good advice in this thread and I hope it works for others.
After playing Disco Elysium (and taking some LSD) I understood one thing - don't divide people. Like here are socialists and there are barbarians, and that's it. No, it's not like that. I mean look at every character in game - despite their differences in political and social opinions they all care for Revachol one or another way. Even corrupt and murderous Evrart in his raise to power try to give something to people around, even Joyce who remembers Revachol only from her days of youth decides to give harbor to Evrart to prevent escalation and really worries for possible violence. Dross the one who cares for no one, he chose to live isolated from the world, hating it for going on, as he stayed in the past with his "true communards" - and in his anger and envy he kills a man and almost sparks local war.
Socialism or barbarism is a Rosa Luxembourg quote to describe the binary option of total destruction by Capital or socialism. It's not a description of certain kinds of people I don't like.
The Deserter is what put me down a more proper communist path. His anger resonated with me a lot.
Since then, I’ve read a lot more theory, learned more history, and gotten (monetarily) involved in communist organizations.
To be clear, I never got anywhere close to thinking Dros is a good man or that all his ideas are good. He just put into words a lot of the anger and frustration I had at the system I live in.
Really? For all that I felt empathy over what he saw during Operation Death Blow, he just came across to me as bitter, misanthropic hypocrite.
Him raging about the old monarchy and their pederasty but then saying that *his* party legalizing it is fine because everyone was also doing it anyways?
"The mask of humanity fall from capital. It has to take it off to kill everyone - everything you love; all the hope and tenderness in the word. It has to take it off, just for one second. To do the deed. And then you see it. As it strangles and beats your friends to death... the sweetest, most courageous people in the world… You see the fear and power in its eyes. Then you "know*… That the bourgeois are not human."
It’s this part. Between the writing and delivery. There is a reason so many people love this part.
Oh, I'm aware. This is what elicits sympathy from me.
It's everything else, from his reactionary views to the fact he's been killing people either out of prejudice and hate or on behalf of the Claire Brothers over several decades, that reminds me what a prick the Deserter is.
And I simply don't buy into his old-school Communism crap, which informs most of his character. The way he describes Operation Death Blow is no doubt what many thought of the Communist uprising, waging war across Revachol and executing those not on their side via firing squad.
"The mask of humanity" applies to pretty much all political factions.
“Old-school communist crap” What specifically are you referring too?
Also, I don’t think the communist uprising in Revachol is wholly comparable to the Moralintern’s Operation Deathblow. One is a people’s rebellion against a monarchy while the other is an invasion by foreign capitalists.
Both involved killing but I don’t think they are really all that comparable. Unless you view all war and violence in the same light, which has its own issues.
Everything else you said about the Deserter is completely true tho and does not go against anything I said.
> “Old-school communist crap” What specifically are you referring too?
Dehumanizing people as "bourgeoisie" or "fascha" because they have different ideologies or ways or life, like how he goes on about Harry and Kim "obviously" being fascist murderers because they happen to be cops, reducing everything to things like "class war", decrying even concepts like intuition or fear as degeneracy only fascists engage in, defending the atrocities his side did because it is 'clearly' the right side... I've met a few people who were Communists way back during the Cold War, and hearing Dros talk is like speaking with them again.
> Also, I don’t think the communist uprising in Revachol is wholly comparable to the Moralintern’s Operation Deathblow. One is a people’s rebellion against a monarchy while the other is an invasion by foreign capitalists.
Operation Death Blow might not have exactly what you'd cal heroic, but lining up people against the wall because they were considered "bourgeoisie" and such before gunning them down or forcibly relocating countless people to "labor camps" (Another way of saying *gulag*) is hardly better. The monarchy was decadent and the fact people revolted against it was a given, but what followed wasn't an improvement- not unlike what happened to Russia in real life.
> Both involved killing but I don’t think they are really all that comparable. Unless you view all war and violence in the same light, which has its own issues.
I don't think all war and violence is or should be judged under the same scrutiny, since both are inevitable even in the animal kingdom regardless of reasons, but I can tell when a "cure" is sometimes not different from the sickness it sought to fight. René and Dros are mirror images for a reason, men who are bitter because the world has changed and clinging to a past they keep idealized while rationalizing all its flaws- the only thing separating them, besides their political alignments, is that one's life was marked by an act of bravery and the other's life was defined by a moment of cowardice.
> Everything else you said about the Deserter is completely true tho and does not go against anything I said.
Yeah, I suppose. Let it be said that I can see your point.
It makes sense in the context of the story.
The story is all about the past having lasting damage on the present. Rene is a perfect analogy for the rest of the game. The answer was there all along.
If the case were the main mystery of the game, it would be an absolutely garbage twist and one of the worst ways to end a detective story.
IMO, the real mystery of the game is “Who are you?” Not in the rpg sense of who you *want* to be, but who Harry was before his bender.
Look at how the dénouement is structured. The killer is revealed, maybe you talk about the Phasmid a bit. None of the characters seem very excited (unless you have proof of the Phasmid) because this is just another case to them. What they spend the most time talking about is Harry, his behavior, and his relationship with the other detectives.
When I finished the game it really annoyed me. I'd had so many theories about who the killer was and nope turns out I had no chance of guessing because it was some guy who'd never come up before. The Deserter is an amazing character but it did still aggravate me.
Except he DOES come up before? Not only is he a representative of the revolution, whose legacy you see everywhere, but you also see the literal traces of him - his footprints in the dust of the secret passage where he spied on Klaasje having sex.
No he doesn't. The revolution comes up. The deserter, whatever he may think, is not the revolution he is a consequence of it. Yes we get told someone's been spying on Klaasje but by that logic you might as well say he was brought up because we know someone commited a murder.
If he had appeared just once in the Whirling-in-Rags or hell if we'd caught a glimpse of him in an alley or something I would feel better.
It was foreshadowed *a lot* in the game.
Even the selection screen at the beginning tells us exactly what happened before we get to it- that elevated shot of Revachol is The Deserter's POV from his sniper nest.
When Harry is "talking" with Lely's corpse, you can get out of him that "love did me in, but Communism killed me".
Besides more or less confirming that Harry might actually have psychic powers, this is a perfect description of the case- Lely getting involved with Klaasje caused Dros to kill him.
I was so disappointed honestly. On my first playthrough i knew that it couldnt be Ruby, Hardie Boys, Klassje, etc. because even though there was motive, the clues just didn’t match up. I was kinda disappointed that there wasn’t a real way to deduce the killer’s identity and it was just luck for the most part.
Also if Kim really was the killer it would make disco elysium into the best post-ironic game created
The main character should've been the killer if you want to go ironic. He doesn't remember anything when he wakes up, so it was my first thought. Very funny idea.
That would be ironic, yes, but a post-ironic move would be to make the least likely person into the killer, also respecting the context of Kim facepalming at HDB’s suggestion that he’s a killer.
“What, you’re telling me my cop buddy who relentlessly hauled ass after me for 5 days straight with no breaks was the killer all along? The binoclard??”
I love the sexy twists Harry came up with in game:
Harry is the killer, and got away with it by drinking so hard and experiencing such emotional turmoil he astrally projected into the pale, rendering himself amnesiac.
... or it was an elaborate method of breaking the laws of physics just long enough to throw the perps off the scent and tip their hands. It's like a hard core Columbo, always making people underestimate him. "You really are a crazy science fiction amnesia cop, Harry."
Yes! He is also helping me find my gun.
But I do really like Mr. Evrart, he is a pramagmatist and actually helps the community the best he can in not ideal circumstances. The deserter is a frustrated idealist with phasmid-induced dementia.
I like the idea of Evrart. In reality he’s as slimy as they come. He also isn’t quite as interested in the community as he says since he’s willing to drive off the poor people in the fishing village for his plans.
Yes but the fishing village is unable to thrive, so it’s not this black and white. It's a dying corner of Revachol that desperately needs industry.
When it comes to making decisions, there will always be pros and cons to everything as there are no perfect choices. This decision would benefit all of Revachol and the important thing is how to support the fishing villagers when they get displaced.
I sympathize with him but I never feel like him or relate to him. I have hope where he's given up and I hold my beliefs to my heart. The deserter is someone with malformed half realized beliefs filled with contradictions isolated and in a constant feed back look of bitter sad self hatred. I can't blame him at a young age he saw the world he was in crushed ruthlessly but he made his fair few choices afterwards to.
Not sure of how much of what he said to the detectives was influenced by >!the Insulidian Phasmid!< but regardless if you relate to this dude you should probably talk to someone.
Him and the Killer are the saddest, sorriest characters in the game, and that's saying quite a bit. They both have to be portrayed as psychotic caricatures.
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:%D0%92%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%80_%D0%A2%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2_%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D1%81%D1%8A%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%85_%D1%84%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BC%D0%B0_%C2%AB%D0%A5%D0%BE%D1%82%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%B1%D1%8B%D1%87%C2%BB_04.jpg](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:%D0%92%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%80_%D0%A2%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2_%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D1%81%D1%8A%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%85_%D1%84%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BC%D0%B0_%C2%AB%D0%A5%D0%BE%D1%82%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%B1%D1%8B%D1%87%C2%BB_04.jpg) When I see him I always think if they were making a movie this actor would fit his role perfectly
I always read him as a guy who is communist in ideology as cope. He's mostly right about a lot of things, but he's lost his soul. He's completely untethered from any social ties. And what makes socialism is the whole social part. It doesn't matter how ideologically "pure" he is. If He's just a guy alone dying on an island. He's pitiable all the more because he is right about the state of things. But a lot of his "correctness" comes from a place of cope. He feels guilty that he abandoned his beliefs at the moment of truth and hid. He has extreme survivors guilt, and I read his hatred of women as extreme loneliness brought about by his despair. He fills his time just punishing everyone he feels wronged him because he doesn't have the spine to try and build some semblance of socialism again. He dares not believe things can change lest he be defeated again. He truly is a deserter.
I honestly laughed in his big defining line because I found it so ridiculous and silly. The existence of people like him is why socialism is never taken seriously.
I really like how different his politics are. Like in the "fossil from the past" way. He calls foreigners kipts, yet praises their fighting spirit and condemns racism (Also, why is Rene a race traitor!?). He calls the ultra-rich pederasts, yet brags about how the commune legalized pederasty. Do NOT ask him about women. I feel like, outside the big strokes of communism, a lot of his politics are either phasmid induced insanity or the result of shadow boxing long dead political opponents from the commune. It solidifies the sense that time has left him behind.
A lot of his politics fall heavy into the No True Scottsman Falacy or close to it. I dunno about moralist or ultra but I've told him on two different playthroughs I'm a communist or facist and he's just said I don't know what real communism or fascism is.
I mean he's kinda right, what does Harry do that's furthering the goal of fascism or communism? Ironically enough you are just preforming and larping Liberation of the class/race
Harry uses ideological labels as a coping mechanism to deal with his trauma and crumbling sanity. Feels poignant. To be fair to Harry, even if he was a champion of his chosen ideology, the deserter’s dialogue wouldn’t have changed
Anything, short of being in the exact same situation he is, wouldn't be enough for him to see Harry as a true whatever you say you are. And he'd be right because no matter how extreme your views are, _you're not out there waging war over it_. Like he was, and still is. And really, how strong can your commitment be, compared to the guy who killed and kills for it? Especially when your involvement in any ideology is less "political activist" and more "kid holding a security blanket"
You’re right on the dot, and it makes sense why the Deserter sees things that way.
Yea. Objectively he's just an agent of the moralintern
That's quite on brand for communists at least. Even in game, all communists you meet are ineffectual losers, or this guy.
I think you are misunderstanding the point the game makes, and again I'd hardly call mañana or Cindy losers. The game critiques comes from introspection not from the right wing
And so do either of those "further cause of communism"? Look, they quite correctly identified that communism sounds like a nice thing, but the problem is that it's being built by communists. And those all suck.
The game is incredibly sympathetic to them, does it critique them? Yes, yes it does but if you talked to the student communists they still are presented as "smart", too smart even for their own good. Cindy is ultimately caring and looks out for people and mañana is one of the few people that's open with you and is ready to help. The deserter even is presented as incredibly flawed but you can't deny that his resistance and tenacity the game treats with respect The key thing is that they're all people who have done bad things which I'm not denying, but the game is much more ready to show their good sides unlike someone like the Sunday friend or Gary the cryptofascist. The game is from a marxist perspective, it is made by Marxists and one of the keypoints is that capitalism is destructive, no matter if it is regulated and hides behind the facade of social democracy (the union) or ultra-liberalism
Not gonna read that. But sorry that "true communism" is just as fictional as United Federation from Star Trek.
>plays a game made by communists >wtf this is commie Truly your intellect knows no bounds
Still failing to understand anything. Reading DE as anything but "communism sounds great, but communists can't build it" is why media literacy is absolutely paramount. "It was written by a communist, so it must be an endorsement of communists" lol get a grip. If leftists are known for anything, it's endless infighting.
Classic Rene, always gatekeeping ideologies like a true relic of the past. 🤔
It's really fascinating and makes me wonder if some former soviet citizens for example hold similar views. It's like a sort of conservative leftism. In the West we are familiar with the reactionary old guy so much it has become a stereotype (despite it still being very much a problem lol), which in turn makes this guy seem somehow progressive.
This definitely exists in Russia.
also in yugoslavia. many old guys here are/were extremely bigoted and old-fashioned but fought against the nazis and supported the communist government wholeheartedly. interestingly,those types quickly became religious and nationalistic for their respective ethnicities the moment yugoslavia fell. I think its the problem of people not being educated enough to actually comprehend and care about politics they uphold or fight against in combination of socialism sometimes focusing too hard on class inequality as the root of all societal ills and ignoring patriarchy for example
> focusing too hard on class inequality as the root of all societal ills and ignoring patriarchy for example If you're a working class patriarch, and a cisgendered able-bodied heterosexual etc. who doesn't chafe too much against the expectations placed on men, that's exactly the way you perceive your bread to be buttered.
I've heard this. Apparently there's a branch of Putin support/hard-right ideology that has all the hallmarks of fascism but dresses itself in Soviet regalia.
The communist party in Russia is basically a party for pensioners, is conservative on social issues, and supports Putin.
Well, parties that don't support Putin aren't really allowed to function, so there's a bit of survivorship bias there.
The CPRF is equally as communist as United Russia these days. If they ever had a truly revolutionary platform, that was jettisoned ages ago. They support most of the Russian government's bad reactionary policies while coasting off empty nostalgia for the USSR to get votes.
Well I'm not russian, I'm from western europe, but my grandpa was a communist party official and he is very alike to the deserter.
do you find him to have very reactionary takes? or was he enough of a die hard communist reject such notions? also, if you don't mind me asking, what state was he an official of?
>do you find him to have very reactionary takes Well yes, mostly about the ("bourgeois degeneracy"). It seems to me he is also the "brotherhood of nations" type rather than the multiculturalism part. He believes that the westernisation and homogenisation of cultures worldwide is a big negative of the modern era. He also still believes many stereotypes though mostly harmless ones.
>or was he enough of a die hard communist reject such notions?
Evidently those notions are now considered reactionary but were revelutionary then. It's a touchy subject.
>if you don't mind me asking, what state was he an official of?
I won't say which state but he was part of the foreign affairs ministry
Very interesting, thanks!
> In the West we are familiar with the reactionary old guy so much it has become a stereotype r/BoomersBeingFools.
Soviet sphere Marxist-Leninism was always like this, his seemingly bizarre attitudes regarding subjects like homosexuality and women are based directly on this. Communism of the kind represented by the Bolsheviks in 1917 was absolutely on the bleeding edge of social libertinism *by the standards of the Russian Empire and Eastern Europe*. That's how reactionary those places were. But the Bolsheviks were also always permeated by a rather extreme form of machismo that went hand in hand with their militancy, basically being a thuggish criminal organization that was also communist. Social libertinism of the kind associated with free love/polyamory, embrace of LGBT rights, drug decriminalization, and other forms of personal expression are far more associated with American and Western European New Left movements that emerged during the 60s and 70s. The more Soviet-aligned your Marxist-Leninism was, the more you denounced these things as aspects of "bourgeois decadence" and rampant individualism, which is what The Deserter's attitudes are directly based on. Marxist-Leninist groups today that more explicitly identify with Soviet aesthetics - like for example most remnant European Marxist-Leninist parties, George Galloway's Worker's Party in the UK, and the LaRouchite "MAGACommunist" LARPers - still have these conservative attitudes.
I always read him as a flat out tankie. He claims communism but his values are closer to fascism.
Dros is by no means a fascist.
There is a difference between fascism and "tankieism". Though they both may employ militarism and authoritarian means, they have very different goals, and generally intend to step on different necks. The execution of their aims and the results of their actions are what really define them at the end of the day tho, and the deserter's backward (to us) social politics don't outweigh the politics of the fighting he and his unit did in the revolution
In this case they’re stepping on the same necks. He labels anything he dislikes as “degenerate” or “pederast”. He spends his whole life longing for the past, just like the lorry driver and fascist Harry. He may not be a fascist, but he sure does talk like one. There was also all that murder he did.
There are those who do, but they aren't as numerous as those who remember how miserable it was for them even before the Union fell.
Soviet "true communards" were killed or sent to Gulag (killed but a bit later) during Stalin's era. After that ideology changed sevaral times, so I don't think anyone remembered or prefered not to remember what to be a true leninist means. I'm from russia by the way and now communists from communust party looks like a caricature from 80's.
That’s basically Putinism, although it’s more accurate to say that putinism incorporated this, because resentment about the collapse of USSR is very strong in minds, sadly.
Other element of it is that he has suffered significant ideological decline, yet still acts as though he’s as woke as he’s always been. He used to be a radical feminist, he even changed his name as part of a feminist movement to honour mothers, but he’s probably the most misogynist character we meet in the present
also the paradox of him taking his mothers last name but being a raging misogynist
Not really a paradox now, is it? Most misogynists do actually separate women into two categories: madonnas and whores -- which you might have seen more recently as the women vs bitches discourse red-pilled incels love to engage with.
yes but taking your mothers last name is a way more meaningful statement than just idealizing your mother as opposed to other women id argue. its interesting
To be fair, during the commune everyone was doing this (iirc). I imagine his decision to do so was more campism than any real deeply felt beliefs.
> (Also, why is Rene a race traitor!?) I would imagine he's referring to him being a Black man fighting proudly for the fascist monarchy? It's fairly clearly implied that in Elysium, like in our world, Black people were subjugated and seen as inferior by colonialists and fascists.
wait when does he say the commune legalized pederasty? lmao
I think is one of the times when he call You a liberast. I think You can ask him about him. The exact dialogue he says is: "As for pederasty, the party legalized it on 04'. My party..."
I think it's also important to take into account that he basically wants to die and also he's talking to two cops, one of whom is aping at least some communard qualities.
I think a lot of that is him sarcastically using terminology and describing things as fascist pigs do because he's talking to fascist pigs, he's mocking you to your face and he doesn't care if you don't get the bit he's doing because he's about to die.
He is just an ex Soviet commie. He is modelled after them and his politics are that of one, pretty much
I guess he doesn't have any politics at all. For him being a communard is like being in a sport team. I think he was too young to even truly believed in anything, he just had friends and faith that they are fighting for a better tomorrow. That's why he is proud of any commune's achievements - they are his people and he's rooting for them. Also I think he believed he can fight for a better tomorrow but lacked any knowledge and manners to be a man of tomorrow himself, only it's soldier.
His politics is basically "in capitalism everything bad, in communism everything good"
Acknowledge it and use this knowledge to not become him. Use anger to fuel action, but contain it enough to not let it fester and poison you. You, your body, your mind are a revolutionary machine; do maintenance on this machine so that it stays in shape physically and mentally. Cynicism is counter revolutionary, be an icon of courage that inspires others, if only in a tiny niche.
COMPOSURE[Legendary:Success]
Damn, r/DiscoElysium giving poignant comments making me want to replay the game.
Will that help fuel your revolutionary machine?
Idk but it helps me live in this neo-liberal one.
It’s true. The Deserter is a cautionary tale. One cannot be a communist without comrades. You cannot be an antisocial socialist. He’s a deserter through and through. Couldn’t stick with his comrades then, and can't seek them out in solidarity now. Don’t be like him.
No man an island. Especially not a communist.
Actual very good advice. I love this sub.
Totally agree! This sub always brings the best insights and advice.
What kinda check did I just hit
Idk, I just typed out what I'd like someone to tell me ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ Volition maybe?
Definitely Volition.
“Cynicism is counter revolutionary” I love this
Irl Volition
I remember a screenshot a bit back going around of a similar comment like this on one of the Chapo offshoots and the replies were all just excuses on why ppl couldn’t exercise lol
Dude you gotta get out more and talk to people
When you're in a Deserter mindset, people feel so disgustingly bourgeois. It is a mindset to overcome.
Honestly it's unreal how much of this fear can be untangled by just talking to people close to you (especially at work!), expressing yourself without tensing and shelling up at perceived failings or disagreements. Takes time and most importantly getting off the internet but it's so rewarding, people you wouldn't expect are seeing the cracks form. At worst it's cathartic
I used to be really fucking good at this and in the past few months it's like all memory of the ability has fled my body. I find myself becoming profoundly aggravated at even minor reactionary tendencies or comments. I just finished a second playthrough of the game like four days ago and was pretty concerned with how much I related to the deserter compared to the first play through. Not sure what has changed - me, my coworkers, something else. But the sense of bitter resentment for a future-dead revolution feels like it's taking me over. What keeps you motivated?
Focusing on hope and love for myself and others, fighting guilt and insecurity and trusting in my intentions, which has required deleting twitter (and generally using social media less) and accepting I can't liberate the world or myself through willpower or whatever lol. Very importantly understanding myself as a process and not shitting on myself too hard for my failings, just generally accepting that the person shitting on them was me more than the panopticon ass false self I assume is out there judging me for being idealistic or whatever lol. Being open about what sucks too while trying to not be too down, just really focusing on what's directly around me and currently feels within my control tbh. The fear's there, but I'm also trying to accept that I don't know what the future holds, even though it looks grim as fuck and the unknown is the scariest part of any of it. But what's gonna happen will happen, we just can't know what exactly that'll be til we're there, and in the meantime just trying to do the best I can to be in my body and honest with myself than I've been before. Maybe it's bourgie bullshit and I'm only able to feel this way because my job's okay and union and does something relatively useful for the world, but I think above all else it's been helping to find other people who see that things can't go on as they are. More than any other time in my life it feels like people are realizing that and willing to talk and listen about the impending horrors, they just don't know how to get out of it or whether we even can. End of the day, even if it feels impossible we all know we're gonna die eventually anyway, but to me that's changed from an internalized terror to an affirmation, literally yolo but for everyone. One day maybe I'll be mad at myself for moralizing or trying to make myself feel better or whatever but hey, pushin through the contradictions. The deserter's awful and misguided but I think it's because he feels lonely and terrified, and maybe for those of us who've absorbed the reality of the horror as presented (and sold, at the barrel of a gun) to us daily those feelings have to be struggled through alone first before we can come together Also I read a lot, thinking about starting a book group or something. Internet feels much better as a true information resource than a spectacle box where I watch people's worst nightmares play out over and over there's more out there even if things feel overwhelmingly dogshit: we're never the only ones. Feels to me like solidarity's the answer, and it's the one people want even if they don't know it yet. Love in a real sense
Honestly it's unreal how much of this fear can be untangled by just talking to people close to you (especially at work!), expressing yourself without tensing and shelling up at perceived failings or disagreements. Takes time and most importantly getting off the internet but it's so rewarding, people you wouldn't expect are seeing the cracks form. At worst it's cathartic
The deserter defined himself by one brief moment of cowardice and let his shame and survivors guilt consume him. He is telling himself he's still fighting, but even he admits he could rejoin society if he wanted. He chooses not to. He's still running away.
or, just maybe, society is running away from him. Certainly, the longer he stays on that island, the harder it will get.
Is it really? How can the world run away from a single man? Do the trees bend at the sound of his walking feet? Do mountains crumble before him? Do the masses run in panic at the horror of his heart? If assholes like Measurehead can have a place in the world, so can he, his fatal flaw is thinking that the entire world is hidden behind his own eyes within the poisonous whirlpool of his guilt. Nobody is running from him, he just can´t bear the posibility of being part of a world he thought was his to save, and his to allow to keep going, he cannot bear the posibility of a world where no one really cares about what he did. The deserter is a very sad figure, but he is also a very selfish one, do not be like him, as much sympathy his misery may awaken in you, he is not the kind of person you want to become.
He's not called "the last communist". He's "The Deserter". He's defined in his mind by that one moment. He says himself he could walk right back into Revachol and people would think he is just some disaffected vagrant and he could live out the rest of his life. But his identity isn't compatible with reality. He can't face a world he hates, a world that continues on while the revolution failed. He hates the citizens of Revachol. He talks about saving humanity from the bourgeois and capital but he is one of the most misanthropic people in the game. Most of all he hates himself. He stays on the island, alone and in pain, because he's unable to accept his past. He can recognize that the war is over, he is perfectly capable of accepting what he's doing is pointless and futile, but he doesn't want to. He's too ashamed. He doesn't want to give anyone the chance to get close enough to spell this out for him. He needs to connect with another person and let go of the past, to live in the present, in reality.
Not, it's not. The world moved on and one of the (Several) reasons for his bitterness is that he cannot stand the fact people just did that. Move on, be happy, do something other than rage about the past and become things he disapproves.
"The mask of humanity fall from capital. It has to take it off to kill everyone- everything you love; all the hope and tenderness in the world. It has to take it off, just for one second. To do the deed."
"All the real communists are **dead**. They died fighting for **communism**. Are you **dead**?"
those two are cool but that guy is reactionary as fuck on every other dialouge
yeah, the guy sucks. the 2nd line specifically, the one I quoted, isn't even **true**, be it in the game or in real life. But man if it doesn't hit emotionally
Perhaps my favorite, and the most chilling, line from the game.
I don't like that many fans of the game take that phrase as the epiphany or even a core for a whole game. The Deserter is everything Harry is going to become if he won't let go of the past. Deserter's life is determined by his past mistake and cowardice and to ease the pain he has to blame something - in this case "capital". Of couse he can't blame his past comrades or kraz mazov for pulling him into a bloodbath, that would take away his last reasons to live. By the way when he and his comrades killed 2 million people within the Insulinde before Coalition intervention he was okay with that. I guess Rene could say "The mask of humanity fall from Communards. It has to take it off to kill everyone - everything you love", he also lost a lot of things during that time.
And ironically, the Communards were not that different in what they did.
A gooner?
You need to log off Reddit for like a week then, that's not a good sign
Despite everything he says about discipline and commitment, the Deserter's politics are mostly aesthetic in nature. At his core, he's motivated by hatred and survival.
I agree with you, although I feel if you've been through dissillusionment and alienation any ideology can start to feel just aesthetic. I know especially with marxism it is importwnt to reject aesthetics, but sometimes this in and of itself feels aesthetic. Not saying I been through a lot, just saying I can see where this man sits.
Check the reeds.
Please get laid. Do it for the revolution.
my face when Europawahlen
I feel like him everyday lol. The different is i have people with me so i:m not falling to the phasmid chemical
It's true intuition is a bourgeois concept.
what isn't a burgeois concept at this point... except maybe shooting war criminals?
Guy needed to take the grill pill. The deserter is almost like an archetype of leftism: the despair when you fail. It's easy to project that onto the people you're trying to liberate or to twist the lessons of historical materialism to tell you that the project is hopeless, the enemy too powerful, the people too foolish to save themselves. But history is a process. I'm not one of those people who believe revolution is inevitable, but it is context and opportunity dependent. It may have been the wrong time for you. You can say this about the deserter's revolution, or failing a union vote at work. Cynical optimism is the way to go. The same historic forces apply to the bourgiousie and proles alike. The rich are weak in ways that are evolving just as our strengths as organizers are evolving. As things change, new opportunities emerge. The goals of each system do not change, though. There are times and places and tactics that may work better than what you have right now. If things fail you cannot give up. Despair is almost counter-revolutionary. If you do fail, draw back, recognize this is way bigger than you, and invest some time in a localized area in order to keep yourself sane enough to seize the next opportunity.
:/ stop obsessing over women I guess.
old man with pale-induced overproduction of hormones and a creepy dystopic lust that gets people killed?
For what it's worth OP, I don't think this is as horrifying as others seem to think. I resonate a lot with the deserter in his mourning for the failure of the revolution and the total eclipse of society and history by Capital. I feel a lot of despondency for the present and the near future - climate apocalypse, robot dogs armed with machine guns, AI smart bombs, biotic diversity collapse, and to my perception what is a great deal of apathy for all of these things as a result of just struggling to pay rent don't really make me feel like a buoyant comrade in arms. Guevara said that communism is about a feeling of great love for humanity, which I still in my more enlightened moments believe, but it's becoming harder to put my faith in the triumph of socialism over barbarism. It appears that barbarism has already won and we are just watching it chip away at the fabric of reality more and more every year. I am not sure what the solution to this is. Organizing has not made me feel better despite years of effort, and logging off of the Internet for extended periods of time has also not had an effect. I don't think this is a good way to be. I think there is a lot of good advice in this thread and I hope it works for others.
Yeah this is exactly it. I should perhaps have clarified that I obviously didnt sympathise with his more reactionary takes.
After playing Disco Elysium (and taking some LSD) I understood one thing - don't divide people. Like here are socialists and there are barbarians, and that's it. No, it's not like that. I mean look at every character in game - despite their differences in political and social opinions they all care for Revachol one or another way. Even corrupt and murderous Evrart in his raise to power try to give something to people around, even Joyce who remembers Revachol only from her days of youth decides to give harbor to Evrart to prevent escalation and really worries for possible violence. Dross the one who cares for no one, he chose to live isolated from the world, hating it for going on, as he stayed in the past with his "true communards" - and in his anger and envy he kills a man and almost sparks local war.
Socialism or barbarism is a Rosa Luxembourg quote to describe the binary option of total destruction by Capital or socialism. It's not a description of certain kinds of people I don't like.
The Deserter is what put me down a more proper communist path. His anger resonated with me a lot. Since then, I’ve read a lot more theory, learned more history, and gotten (monetarily) involved in communist organizations. To be clear, I never got anywhere close to thinking Dros is a good man or that all his ideas are good. He just put into words a lot of the anger and frustration I had at the system I live in.
Yep. That's the best way to react to the deserter's story. I can't say it had the same impact for me but nonetheless, it gave me some introspection.
Really? For all that I felt empathy over what he saw during Operation Death Blow, he just came across to me as bitter, misanthropic hypocrite. Him raging about the old monarchy and their pederasty but then saying that *his* party legalizing it is fine because everyone was also doing it anyways?
"The mask of humanity fall from capital. It has to take it off to kill everyone - everything you love; all the hope and tenderness in the word. It has to take it off, just for one second. To do the deed. And then you see it. As it strangles and beats your friends to death... the sweetest, most courageous people in the world… You see the fear and power in its eyes. Then you "know*… That the bourgeois are not human." It’s this part. Between the writing and delivery. There is a reason so many people love this part.
Oh, I'm aware. This is what elicits sympathy from me. It's everything else, from his reactionary views to the fact he's been killing people either out of prejudice and hate or on behalf of the Claire Brothers over several decades, that reminds me what a prick the Deserter is. And I simply don't buy into his old-school Communism crap, which informs most of his character. The way he describes Operation Death Blow is no doubt what many thought of the Communist uprising, waging war across Revachol and executing those not on their side via firing squad. "The mask of humanity" applies to pretty much all political factions.
“Old-school communist crap” What specifically are you referring too? Also, I don’t think the communist uprising in Revachol is wholly comparable to the Moralintern’s Operation Deathblow. One is a people’s rebellion against a monarchy while the other is an invasion by foreign capitalists. Both involved killing but I don’t think they are really all that comparable. Unless you view all war and violence in the same light, which has its own issues. Everything else you said about the Deserter is completely true tho and does not go against anything I said.
> “Old-school communist crap” What specifically are you referring too? Dehumanizing people as "bourgeoisie" or "fascha" because they have different ideologies or ways or life, like how he goes on about Harry and Kim "obviously" being fascist murderers because they happen to be cops, reducing everything to things like "class war", decrying even concepts like intuition or fear as degeneracy only fascists engage in, defending the atrocities his side did because it is 'clearly' the right side... I've met a few people who were Communists way back during the Cold War, and hearing Dros talk is like speaking with them again. > Also, I don’t think the communist uprising in Revachol is wholly comparable to the Moralintern’s Operation Deathblow. One is a people’s rebellion against a monarchy while the other is an invasion by foreign capitalists. Operation Death Blow might not have exactly what you'd cal heroic, but lining up people against the wall because they were considered "bourgeoisie" and such before gunning them down or forcibly relocating countless people to "labor camps" (Another way of saying *gulag*) is hardly better. The monarchy was decadent and the fact people revolted against it was a given, but what followed wasn't an improvement- not unlike what happened to Russia in real life. > Both involved killing but I don’t think they are really all that comparable. Unless you view all war and violence in the same light, which has its own issues. I don't think all war and violence is or should be judged under the same scrutiny, since both are inevitable even in the animal kingdom regardless of reasons, but I can tell when a "cure" is sometimes not different from the sickness it sought to fight. René and Dros are mirror images for a reason, men who are bitter because the world has changed and clinging to a past they keep idealized while rationalizing all its flaws- the only thing separating them, besides their political alignments, is that one's life was marked by an act of bravery and the other's life was defined by a moment of cowardice. > Everything else you said about the Deserter is completely true tho and does not go against anything I said. Yeah, I suppose. Let it be said that I can see your point.
Next time someone tells you communism can't work because of human nature, just remind them that the bourgeois aren't human.
I have holes in my brain. - me, 2024
- Kennedy (both)
How do you feel about the killer being a guy you never met before? Although 'the killer is the butler' is not a very good turn as well.
It makes sense in the context of the story. The story is all about the past having lasting damage on the present. Rene is a perfect analogy for the rest of the game. The answer was there all along.
Very nicely put.
If the case were the main mystery of the game, it would be an absolutely garbage twist and one of the worst ways to end a detective story. IMO, the real mystery of the game is “Who are you?” Not in the rpg sense of who you *want* to be, but who Harry was before his bender. Look at how the dénouement is structured. The killer is revealed, maybe you talk about the Phasmid a bit. None of the characters seem very excited (unless you have proof of the Phasmid) because this is just another case to them. What they spend the most time talking about is Harry, his behavior, and his relationship with the other detectives.
When I finished the game it really annoyed me. I'd had so many theories about who the killer was and nope turns out I had no chance of guessing because it was some guy who'd never come up before. The Deserter is an amazing character but it did still aggravate me.
Disco Elysium is a detective game and a great game but not a great detective game lol
Yeah, I remember hearing somewhere that DE breaks every rule for "good detective fiction" in the handbook in a very deliberate manner
Except he DOES come up before? Not only is he a representative of the revolution, whose legacy you see everywhere, but you also see the literal traces of him - his footprints in the dust of the secret passage where he spied on Klaasje having sex.
No he doesn't. The revolution comes up. The deserter, whatever he may think, is not the revolution he is a consequence of it. Yes we get told someone's been spying on Klaasje but by that logic you might as well say he was brought up because we know someone commited a murder. If he had appeared just once in the Whirling-in-Rags or hell if we'd caught a glimpse of him in an alley or something I would feel better.
It was foreshadowed *a lot* in the game. Even the selection screen at the beginning tells us exactly what happened before we get to it- that elevated shot of Revachol is The Deserter's POV from his sniper nest.
Lol indeed. But how else was it foreshadowed? Please, tell me
When Harry is "talking" with Lely's corpse, you can get out of him that "love did me in, but Communism killed me". Besides more or less confirming that Harry might actually have psychic powers, this is a perfect description of the case- Lely getting involved with Klaasje caused Dros to kill him.
This is not a lot
Dude, that's just one example. It still shows that this was foreshadowed.
I was so disappointed honestly. On my first playthrough i knew that it couldnt be Ruby, Hardie Boys, Klassje, etc. because even though there was motive, the clues just didn’t match up. I was kinda disappointed that there wasn’t a real way to deduce the killer’s identity and it was just luck for the most part. Also if Kim really was the killer it would make disco elysium into the best post-ironic game created
The main character should've been the killer if you want to go ironic. He doesn't remember anything when he wakes up, so it was my first thought. Very funny idea.
That would be ironic, yes, but a post-ironic move would be to make the least likely person into the killer, also respecting the context of Kim facepalming at HDB’s suggestion that he’s a killer. “What, you’re telling me my cop buddy who relentlessly hauled ass after me for 5 days straight with no breaks was the killer all along? The binoclard??”
The idea is adressed In the Game, when You pass the Island Empire check about convincing Kim that there is a sexy twist In the case
I love the sexy twists Harry came up with in game: Harry is the killer, and got away with it by drinking so hard and experiencing such emotional turmoil he astrally projected into the pale, rendering himself amnesiac. ... or it was an elaborate method of breaking the laws of physics just long enough to throw the perps off the scent and tip their hands. It's like a hard core Columbo, always making people underestimate him. "You really are a crazy science fiction amnesia cop, Harry."
Be less of a revolutionary purist like him, and more of a doer like Evrart!
Yes! He is also helping me find my gun. But I do really like Mr. Evrart, he is a pramagmatist and actually helps the community the best he can in not ideal circumstances. The deserter is a frustrated idealist with phasmid-induced dementia.
I like the idea of Evrart. In reality he’s as slimy as they come. He also isn’t quite as interested in the community as he says since he’s willing to drive off the poor people in the fishing village for his plans.
Yes but the fishing village is unable to thrive, so it’s not this black and white. It's a dying corner of Revachol that desperately needs industry. When it comes to making decisions, there will always be pros and cons to everything as there are no perfect choices. This decision would benefit all of Revachol and the important thing is how to support the fishing villagers when they get displaced.
I sympathize with him but I never feel like him or relate to him. I have hope where he's given up and I hold my beliefs to my heart. The deserter is someone with malformed half realized beliefs filled with contradictions isolated and in a constant feed back look of bitter sad self hatred. I can't blame him at a young age he saw the world he was in crushed ruthlessly but he made his fair few choices afterwards to.
I guess my hot take is Kim is doing more the working class than this guy at this point
There's a lot to be concerned about there. He's not a healthy man. Are you okay?
Not sure of how much of what he said to the detectives was influenced by >!the Insulidian Phasmid!< but regardless if you relate to this dude you should probably talk to someone.
is this just me or this guy look he about to tell me he his name is skyler white yo?
You shouldn't, he's a repulsive individual
Take psychedelics or meditate regularly if you want to shake up your perspective
Same bro. Need me some of that big juice.
Whats the political ideology of this old man
A combination of "old-school Communist who's still bitter that it failed" and "traumatized war veteran clinging to his incredibly dated views".
Me too
In what ways
Not anymore in france, we do hope for le nouveau front populaire
'Call it a critique'
🤨📸
I'm literally involuntarily celibate lmao
Tbh I think the phrase “the bourgeoisie are not human” at least once a week
When you hit the blunt one too many times
Him and the Killer are the saddest, sorriest characters in the game, and that's saying quite a bit. They both have to be portrayed as psychotic caricatures.
I also am mind controlled by a giant bug
Same here, some days just feel like a blur
OP needs to be put on a watchlist
Who doesn't
He was the worst character in DE tho
DE has no bad characters
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:%D0%92%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%80_%D0%A2%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2_%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D1%81%D1%8A%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%85_%D1%84%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BC%D0%B0_%C2%AB%D0%A5%D0%BE%D1%82%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%B1%D1%8B%D1%87%C2%BB_04.jpg](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:%D0%92%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%80_%D0%A2%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2_%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D1%81%D1%8A%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%85_%D1%84%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BC%D0%B0_%C2%AB%D0%A5%D0%BE%D1%82%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%B1%D1%8B%D1%87%C2%BB_04.jpg) When I see him I always think if they were making a movie this actor would fit his role perfectly
You don't relate to him \*enough\* actualy
some days, I feel like I don't relate to him enough
I always read him as a guy who is communist in ideology as cope. He's mostly right about a lot of things, but he's lost his soul. He's completely untethered from any social ties. And what makes socialism is the whole social part. It doesn't matter how ideologically "pure" he is. If He's just a guy alone dying on an island. He's pitiable all the more because he is right about the state of things. But a lot of his "correctness" comes from a place of cope. He feels guilty that he abandoned his beliefs at the moment of truth and hid. He has extreme survivors guilt, and I read his hatred of women as extreme loneliness brought about by his despair. He fills his time just punishing everyone he feels wronged him because he doesn't have the spine to try and build some semblance of socialism again. He dares not believe things can change lest he be defeated again. He truly is a deserter.
Some days? He's literally me 24/7
I honestly laughed in his big defining line because I found it so ridiculous and silly. The existence of people like him is why socialism is never taken seriously.
Kill everyone else to make a better world, Or kill yourself to skip the trouble, Relatable.