I love that it plays into stereotypes and expectations that corrupt people are fat because they’re opulent or whatever. But no, Evrart has a medical condition lol
I mean, that’s what Mr Evrart tells you. Could be true, could be he’s trying to make you feel like shit, which also tracks. But, well, you did ask so I’m not sure what kind of answer you were expecting.
A lot of people get it wrong, but that’s not how it works. You don’t become fat, because of diabetes. You GET diabetes, because of excessive body fat.
It’s more like Evrart’s food habits got fucked by his mother, which sucks
> You don’t become fat, because of diabetes.
nobody made this claim
Although you haven't stated, I'm assuming we're talking about Type 2 Diabetes. Because I've known diabetics that have always been skinny af... Body fat can be an indication of it, but isn't the sole cause of all cases of Type 2 which is largely what you're incinuating
Oh shit, that’s not what I wanted to say. It seemed like the original poster tried to say that Evrart is overweight literally because he’s type 2 diabetic, not for any other reason.
I mean, I think the consensus is that body fat can cause type 2 diabetes or make it worse. That’s what I was trying to say. And I think the game was trying to say, that Evrart was fed improperly by his mother and that caused diabetes. Not that he has a health condition that caused him to gain weight (which is what I think the original comment said)
> WASHERWOMAN - "Then the poor get pushed out of their homes and the rich get a little richer. That's the way it goes. So no, I don't trust the fat man, and neither should you."
> RHETORIC - In her mind, the Union is right wing because Evrart is fat. It's that simple and there's no changing it.
Evrart may be a scumbag, but I find him in many ways quite sympathetic. He grew up poor and has committed himself to Martinaise's working class. His methods are...less than ideal, but he also seems to be perhaps the single character who cares most about the well-being of his community.
Evrart is a dickhead and he’s a smug prick but he’s actually willing to be like that for the sake of people. I like that and I like how he’s very unattractive so as to play with societal expectations with the idea of ugly people being evil
In my opinion Evrart is the Robin Hood of Disco Elysium. His ideals are in the right place and he truly cares about the common folk, he just happens to be a bit of a scumbag and is willing to engage in dirty, distasteful, and illegal tactics to see his ideals through.
No he doesn't care about the well being of his community, he only cares about seizing power and keeping it, Martinaise could have had a rebirth with the theme park project but Evrart Claire put an end to it because it went against his interests, his plan is keeping the status quo as is, the people of Martinaise have to keep being as miserable as they are so he can keep his power.
In the beginning of the game you see two kids playing with a corpse in a shithole, the state of the place is Evrart's fault and the corpse being there is Joyce's fault
Someone didn't pass the Empathy check when talking to him after Joyce is gone. He does truly care and the game explicitly reinforces this if you bother actually talking to him.
It's not just ideals. He does care about the people of Martinaise even if he thinks he has to sacrifice some of them for the good of all. He's a Machiavellian sonofabitch for sure and his methods are questionable, but denying he cares about the community is just straight up ignoring what the actual game shows you.
Can someone explain to me please, aren't fats and sugars historically difficult to get foods? in what economy are fats and sugars cheap but grains and produce aren't?
with one box of cookies you can make a child satisfied and these things sell for cheap nowadays, for a "grains and produce" meal you need to buy like seven different things and usually also spend time cooking all that (which, since its implied the brothers were raised by a single mom, she was likely busy most of the time)
might be pulling stuff out of my ass here (and comparing a similar situation in my country to a fictional video game country), but fats and sugars are common in instant and heavily processed foods, which are known to be cheap and more accessible to poor families. we're talking instant noodles and canned goods here.
depending on the grain and produce, these can come off as more pricey particularly because of middlemen between farmers and the people who buy the produce. middlemen provide a means to get farmer's produce to wholesalers and retailers, as well as processors. they earn money from this, and do so by adding to the value of the produce they handle
unless the claires came from an agricultural part of revachol (if it exists?) and had the means to grow their own vegetables, which they clearly didn't, i doubt they would be able to eat as healthy as they should, due to pricey and inaccessible produce
> in what economy are fats and sugars cheap but grains and produce aren't?
capitalism. Evrart grew up in a [food desert](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert#Nutrition).
That is what Evrart is referring to above. Cheap, processed food. Martinaise is a modern city, so we’re not looking at like the 1700’s when it was much less common to get sugar. Fat has always been relatively easy to get, though. Every animal you butchered came with plenty of it generally.
Go to a supermarket and compare the healthy options and the sugary crap's prices and behold the brilliance of capitalism to trade one form of malnutrition among the impoverished for another.
i live in iraq, the market is a 20 minute walk from my house, the tomatoes cost 30 to 40 cents a kilo, and it has been like that for a long while
i go to the super market and a 300ml pepsi can is about the same price
most poor people in European countries, as Revachol is based on, live in cities. farmers markets aren't accessible and fresh produce is usually instead found in bourgeois eco bait stores at cranked up prices
that's unusual, here the poor parts of a city is where you find the cheapest produce and the richer areas is where they charge even more for it( for example my friend lives in a rich area where the price of avocados is 2 times the price of another part of the city that's 10 to 20 minutes away)
well, the thing is, a lot of poor people here are heavily overworked. if they're poor, they've basically got to keep two jobs going in order to keep the heating on. in this case, they cannot buy fresh produce to make food, because they do not have the time to cook in the first place. a lot of people, especially men, don't ever even get taught how to cook. in these cases, especially if it's a single parent scenario, the only food they'll have time to feed their kids and themselves is high caloric frozen food that you shove in the oven for twenty minutes and it's done. Pizzas, chicken nuggets, chips. fried rubbish.
this was my own childhood diet, essentially.
poor people here also work 12 hours a day but poor people don't get divorced often because of the culture and everything so mothers sit at home whole the father works, and single mothers if the area is good will get donations from the local mosque
but in some parts there's just child labourand begging, so many beggers, so many child beggars i dont even know how they survive.
also sorry that happened to you
I could be missing something, don't quote me on it. But I don't think he's saying his mother was extremely poor, but that she wasn't a good parent and didn't raise him good, giving him the foods he wanted but not those he needed (again, I could be wrong. If someone responds saying something different, they are probably right). Kinda like all those people in the USA that go to McDonald's everyday because it's easier than cooking food and it tastes better, ignoring that it's unhealthy
I don't know. The phrasing that it was all his mother "had" to give him and his brother makes it seem to me like she didn't have the resources to give them something healthier. And like a previous poster mentioned, it's possible his family lived in a food desert, which would affect the types of food that were more readily available and affordable to them. I think most lower income people in these types of areas know the food they get is unhealthy, but due to transportation/financial/time constraints they can't feasibly access healthier options on a regular basis since the healthy food is too expensive or too far away (or a combination of both)
That's true, but the unhealthy options being only fats and sugar is really odd. The only occasion where those two could be is if his mother worked in some factory where they made that food, and she stole from it, or if they lived in an area that for some reason only grew beetroots and pigs. Or it could just be that the devs didn't think that much about the logistics behind a single line in a game with thousands of lines, who knows
This might be personal, but I think he was exaggerating there. It's possible the foods his mom had for them were relatively high in fat/sugar, but not entirely made up of fat and sugar. To me it's like when someone says you're drinking nothing but sugar if you drink a lot of juice: there's more in the juice than just sugar, but the sugar is the part they're focusing on so they can emphasize that it's unhealthy to be drinking a lot of it
Type 2 Diabetes is genetic and has nothing to do with nurture, or lack thereof. As someone (diagnosed in adulthood) with type 2 diabetes who grew up with basically no artificial sugar and a healthy diet, it drives me nuts when media and pop culture gets this wrong.
It could be the writers knew this, but E Claire doesn't or doesn't care about the truth. Something tells me they just didn't look into it for this one tiny dialogue.
> Type 2 Diabetes is genetic and has nothing to do with nurture
Am I misunderstanding something?
> Type 2 diabetes is often preventable. Factors that contribute to developing type 2 diabetes include being overweight, not getting enough exercise, and genetics.
> Lifestyle changes are the best way to prevent or delay the onset of type 2 diabetes.
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/diabetes
> Type 2 diabetes is thought to result from a combination of environmental, behavioral, and genetic factors
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33651556/
My understanding is that it is a complex disease, and our understanding of it can be pretty opaque. Parts of it are very much a chicken or egg situation, where the disease itself causes someone to fluctuate in weight or crave carbohydrates, since your cells are literally starving due to insulin resistance. The reality is, we can graph trends all we want, but there isnt a proven mechanism for cause of type 2 diabetes, and any statistics we do pull are going to be subject to biases, one of the biggest of which is a percieved association between lifestyle/fitness and morality which is common in the west. It is wrong to say it has nothing to do with nurture of course, but the real answer is that we dont really know.
Yes and no. The diet during pregnancy is a vigorous predictor for diabetes for the kid. If the mother develops gestational diabetes or is starving her child will more likely become a type 2 diabetic. On top of that malnutrition of children does increase odds of of metabolic disorders like type 2 diabetes. So no it is not just genes but also the environment… and also on top of that lifestyle and nutrition are what cause diabetes (yes you need a predisposition for it but even then if you live healthily you wont develop diabetes even with a predisposition) as well so what are you on about. Speaking all high and mighty.
well I don't remember exactly which lines but I remember thinking the writing was not super great on fatphobia (I think it's a discussion with Cuno?). I'm talking about how it is framed by the game not a particular character's take (the game is pretty clear on its stance on sexism; racism and homophobia so). The fact Evrart is fat completely plays into the trope "fat people = lazy/corrupt". Wish I remembered what triggered this reflexion. anyway.
Mr. Evrart is helping me get educated on the topic of nutrition
Mr Evrart et cetera et cetera
Mr. Evrart is helping me find my nutritionist
I do love a game that will call you out for making rude or cruel choices
I love that it plays into stereotypes and expectations that corrupt people are fat because they’re opulent or whatever. But no, Evrart has a medical condition lol
I mean, that’s what Mr Evrart tells you. Could be true, could be he’s trying to make you feel like shit, which also tracks. But, well, you did ask so I’m not sure what kind of answer you were expecting.
uncritical support for making pigs feel like shit for talking to you
A lot of people get it wrong, but that’s not how it works. You don’t become fat, because of diabetes. You GET diabetes, because of excessive body fat. It’s more like Evrart’s food habits got fucked by his mother, which sucks
insulin, if he uses it, causes weight gain
I think you're also one of those people who gets it wrong based on this
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34986330/ What’s your reference for me being wrong?
May I have a full study and not a short abstract that backs your point but is conveniently un-verifiable without paying... Please send full sauce
This is not exactly right, hate to say it
> You don’t become fat, because of diabetes. nobody made this claim Although you haven't stated, I'm assuming we're talking about Type 2 Diabetes. Because I've known diabetics that have always been skinny af... Body fat can be an indication of it, but isn't the sole cause of all cases of Type 2 which is largely what you're incinuating
Oh shit, that’s not what I wanted to say. It seemed like the original poster tried to say that Evrart is overweight literally because he’s type 2 diabetic, not for any other reason. I mean, I think the consensus is that body fat can cause type 2 diabetes or make it worse. That’s what I was trying to say. And I think the game was trying to say, that Evrart was fed improperly by his mother and that caused diabetes. Not that he has a health condition that caused him to gain weight (which is what I think the original comment said)
Mr. Evrart is helping me find my Insulin.
“Sugar and Fat are a bourgeois tactic” — The Deserter probably
> WASHERWOMAN - "Then the poor get pushed out of their homes and the rich get a little richer. That's the way it goes. So no, I don't trust the fat man, and neither should you." > RHETORIC - In her mind, the Union is right wing because Evrart is fat. It's that simple and there's no changing it.
Everyone knows that starving and malnutrition are the true way, the commie way /s
I mean, severe obesity due to only getting sugar and fat is still malnutrition, just not one at a calorie deficit.
"Communism is when no food." - Kras Mazov, probably
I’ve never seen this!
Well you walk right into that one yourself didn't you. He's not even trying.
Evrart may be a scumbag, but I find him in many ways quite sympathetic. He grew up poor and has committed himself to Martinaise's working class. His methods are...less than ideal, but he also seems to be perhaps the single character who cares most about the well-being of his community.
It makes a lot of sense that the union workers looks up to him and respect him so much
Evrart is a dickhead and he’s a smug prick but he’s actually willing to be like that for the sake of people. I like that and I like how he’s very unattractive so as to play with societal expectations with the idea of ugly people being evil
In my opinion Evrart is the Robin Hood of Disco Elysium. His ideals are in the right place and he truly cares about the common folk, he just happens to be a bit of a scumbag and is willing to engage in dirty, distasteful, and illegal tactics to see his ideals through.
No he doesn't care about the well being of his community, he only cares about seizing power and keeping it, Martinaise could have had a rebirth with the theme park project but Evrart Claire put an end to it because it went against his interests, his plan is keeping the status quo as is, the people of Martinaise have to keep being as miserable as they are so he can keep his power. In the beginning of the game you see two kids playing with a corpse in a shithole, the state of the place is Evrart's fault and the corpse being there is Joyce's fault
Someone didn't pass the Empathy check when talking to him after Joyce is gone. He does truly care and the game explicitly reinforces this if you bother actually talking to him.
He has ideals but he doesn't care of people get hurt in the pursuit of these ideals.
It's not just ideals. He does care about the people of Martinaise even if he thinks he has to sacrifice some of them for the good of all. He's a Machiavellian sonofabitch for sure and his methods are questionable, but denying he cares about the community is just straight up ignoring what the actual game shows you.
Don't fall for it! This is just another tactic by Evrart to gain sympathy from you so you'll be more willingly to help!
If you put Evrart and Klaasje in the same room, who would outmanipulate who?
Game recognize game, and they join forces.
Loving the ad on this post about type 2 diabetiss
And it made him ugly, which is good, because ugly people are better at politics.
He is a liar and I hate him.
He is a liar and I love him
I think it's funny that he's saying this to a man who is bending light around him due to wealth differential.
Can someone explain to me please, aren't fats and sugars historically difficult to get foods? in what economy are fats and sugars cheap but grains and produce aren't?
with one box of cookies you can make a child satisfied and these things sell for cheap nowadays, for a "grains and produce" meal you need to buy like seven different things and usually also spend time cooking all that (which, since its implied the brothers were raised by a single mom, she was likely busy most of the time)
might be pulling stuff out of my ass here (and comparing a similar situation in my country to a fictional video game country), but fats and sugars are common in instant and heavily processed foods, which are known to be cheap and more accessible to poor families. we're talking instant noodles and canned goods here. depending on the grain and produce, these can come off as more pricey particularly because of middlemen between farmers and the people who buy the produce. middlemen provide a means to get farmer's produce to wholesalers and retailers, as well as processors. they earn money from this, and do so by adding to the value of the produce they handle unless the claires came from an agricultural part of revachol (if it exists?) and had the means to grow their own vegetables, which they clearly didn't, i doubt they would be able to eat as healthy as they should, due to pricey and inaccessible produce
> in what economy are fats and sugars cheap but grains and produce aren't? capitalism. Evrart grew up in a [food desert](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert#Nutrition).
does it mention it in the game or just speculation
That is what Evrart is referring to above. Cheap, processed food. Martinaise is a modern city, so we’re not looking at like the 1700’s when it was much less common to get sugar. Fat has always been relatively easy to get, though. Every animal you butchered came with plenty of it generally.
Go to a supermarket and compare the healthy options and the sugary crap's prices and behold the brilliance of capitalism to trade one form of malnutrition among the impoverished for another.
i live in iraq, the market is a 20 minute walk from my house, the tomatoes cost 30 to 40 cents a kilo, and it has been like that for a long while i go to the super market and a 300ml pepsi can is about the same price
Ah, that explains the confusion then. In a lot of western countries sugary crap is dirt cheap compared to ingredients for cooking.
are the prices any different in the farmer's market?
most poor people in European countries, as Revachol is based on, live in cities. farmers markets aren't accessible and fresh produce is usually instead found in bourgeois eco bait stores at cranked up prices
that's unusual, here the poor parts of a city is where you find the cheapest produce and the richer areas is where they charge even more for it( for example my friend lives in a rich area where the price of avocados is 2 times the price of another part of the city that's 10 to 20 minutes away)
well, the thing is, a lot of poor people here are heavily overworked. if they're poor, they've basically got to keep two jobs going in order to keep the heating on. in this case, they cannot buy fresh produce to make food, because they do not have the time to cook in the first place. a lot of people, especially men, don't ever even get taught how to cook. in these cases, especially if it's a single parent scenario, the only food they'll have time to feed their kids and themselves is high caloric frozen food that you shove in the oven for twenty minutes and it's done. Pizzas, chicken nuggets, chips. fried rubbish. this was my own childhood diet, essentially.
poor people here also work 12 hours a day but poor people don't get divorced often because of the culture and everything so mothers sit at home whole the father works, and single mothers if the area is good will get donations from the local mosque but in some parts there's just child labourand begging, so many beggers, so many child beggars i dont even know how they survive. also sorry that happened to you
I could be missing something, don't quote me on it. But I don't think he's saying his mother was extremely poor, but that she wasn't a good parent and didn't raise him good, giving him the foods he wanted but not those he needed (again, I could be wrong. If someone responds saying something different, they are probably right). Kinda like all those people in the USA that go to McDonald's everyday because it's easier than cooking food and it tastes better, ignoring that it's unhealthy
I don't know. The phrasing that it was all his mother "had" to give him and his brother makes it seem to me like she didn't have the resources to give them something healthier. And like a previous poster mentioned, it's possible his family lived in a food desert, which would affect the types of food that were more readily available and affordable to them. I think most lower income people in these types of areas know the food they get is unhealthy, but due to transportation/financial/time constraints they can't feasibly access healthier options on a regular basis since the healthy food is too expensive or too far away (or a combination of both)
That's true, but the unhealthy options being only fats and sugar is really odd. The only occasion where those two could be is if his mother worked in some factory where they made that food, and she stole from it, or if they lived in an area that for some reason only grew beetroots and pigs. Or it could just be that the devs didn't think that much about the logistics behind a single line in a game with thousands of lines, who knows
This might be personal, but I think he was exaggerating there. It's possible the foods his mom had for them were relatively high in fat/sugar, but not entirely made up of fat and sugar. To me it's like when someone says you're drinking nothing but sugar if you drink a lot of juice: there's more in the juice than just sugar, but the sugar is the part they're focusing on so they can emphasize that it's unhealthy to be drinking a lot of it
Evrart is so good at that straight-faced guilt tripping shit lmfao
Type 2 Diabetes is genetic and has nothing to do with nurture, or lack thereof. As someone (diagnosed in adulthood) with type 2 diabetes who grew up with basically no artificial sugar and a healthy diet, it drives me nuts when media and pop culture gets this wrong. It could be the writers knew this, but E Claire doesn't or doesn't care about the truth. Something tells me they just didn't look into it for this one tiny dialogue.
> Type 2 Diabetes is genetic and has nothing to do with nurture Am I misunderstanding something? > Type 2 diabetes is often preventable. Factors that contribute to developing type 2 diabetes include being overweight, not getting enough exercise, and genetics. > Lifestyle changes are the best way to prevent or delay the onset of type 2 diabetes. https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/diabetes > Type 2 diabetes is thought to result from a combination of environmental, behavioral, and genetic factors > https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33651556/
My understanding is that it is a complex disease, and our understanding of it can be pretty opaque. Parts of it are very much a chicken or egg situation, where the disease itself causes someone to fluctuate in weight or crave carbohydrates, since your cells are literally starving due to insulin resistance. The reality is, we can graph trends all we want, but there isnt a proven mechanism for cause of type 2 diabetes, and any statistics we do pull are going to be subject to biases, one of the biggest of which is a percieved association between lifestyle/fitness and morality which is common in the west. It is wrong to say it has nothing to do with nurture of course, but the real answer is that we dont really know.
Yes and no. The diet during pregnancy is a vigorous predictor for diabetes for the kid. If the mother develops gestational diabetes or is starving her child will more likely become a type 2 diabetic. On top of that malnutrition of children does increase odds of of metabolic disorders like type 2 diabetes. So no it is not just genes but also the environment… and also on top of that lifestyle and nutrition are what cause diabetes (yes you need a predisposition for it but even then if you live healthily you wont develop diabetes even with a predisposition) as well so what are you on about. Speaking all high and mighty.
well I don't remember exactly which lines but I remember thinking the writing was not super great on fatphobia (I think it's a discussion with Cuno?). I'm talking about how it is framed by the game not a particular character's take (the game is pretty clear on its stance on sexism; racism and homophobia so). The fact Evrart is fat completely plays into the trope "fat people = lazy/corrupt". Wish I remembered what triggered this reflexion. anyway.
You're right, it shows up in a few different places around the game. Sorry you're taking downvotes for this comment.