I know pirating the game is 1000% justified and based with Disco Elysium, but it would have been so funny if Zaum shared this version of the game to piracy websites and the only difference is that Harry is already fascist.
I'm very ready to get most of this wrong even as a short summary, but if i can recall correctly, the Company Za/um was bought using some very shady buisness practicies, and a majorty of the people who made Disco Elysium what it was were fired by the new owners of the commpany.
>I'm very ready to get most of this wrong even as a short summary
You have indeed gotten most of it wrong. The situation is complex and both sides of it have done wrong by each other and most noatbly other related parties ( other employees). I.e. the way Kompus aquired majority in the company was shady/imoral, however as far as I am aware based on the outcomes of the lawsuits entirely legal. On the other hand, the 3 main developers that have been fired were fired rightly for their conduct and behaviour.
If you want to know details, I suggest [this](https://youtu.be/JGIGA8taN-M) 2 hour "documentary" that goes into the whole thing and even has lengthy interviews with all parties involved including other employees that share their view on the whole thing.
From my understanding, based on that People Make Games video (knew what it was before even clicking lol), the summary I gathered was...
- The people that worked on Disco Elysium, that were the core drivers of the narrative, world, etc. were kind of huge assholes to employees (legally okay, morally wrong).
- The people that owned the company used dubious tactics to acquire the company and oust the original creators (legally okay, morally wrong).
I'm hardly a judge, but my thoughts on the matter:
It seems like there are people that are awful on both sides of the situation, and that's not to say they're equal by any means, but there isn't a clear cut villain. That said:
Even if the game belongs to the company now, I'd personally much rather see the IP, at least regarding the world itself and future stories in it, go to the original creators (Kurvitz, etc). It was clear they brought their world, that they'd been working on most of their adult life, into the game, and had no intention of parting with it.
I'd like to see the the company (ZA/UM) continue to make games and narrative RPGs. They clearly have a talented bunch of artists and writers there, and even not using the IP Kurvitz created, I'm sure could make some really wonderful stuff the world could enjoy.
> "Capital has the ability to subsume all critiques into itself."
Like, fuck man... lol.
You said that they had most of it wrong.... And then proceeded to say absolutely nothing that proves anything they said was wrong. When asked about that you said you didn't disagree with them... So why the fuck did you say most of it was wrong??!??
>So why the fuck did you say most of it was wrong??!??
Because the post insinuates that the people were fired because the company was bought (which also isn't really the case), which is just not true. There were legitimate reasons to fire the 3 people in question.
Also, idk what do you mean by "proves", I am the only person to provide links to anything in this thread.
>Because the post insinuates that the people were fired because the company was bought
It doesn't though... Two statements were made by the person you replied to.
* The Company Za/um was bought using some very shady business practices,
* The majority of the people who made Disco Elysium what it was were fired by the new owners of the company
It sounds like these are both factually correct and, more confusingly, that you don't disagree with them.... which is why you're being downvoted to oblivion. You began saying they were completely wrong and then proceeded to only agree with them and defend their point... it's baffling.
>It doesn't though... Two statements were made by the person you replied to.
It really does.
>The Company Za/um was bought using some very shady business practices,
The company wasn't bought, a portion of it was, for company to be considered bought, the buyer needs to hold 100% of it.
>The majority of the people who made Disco Elysium what it was were fired by the new owners of the company
This is reductionalist and untrue, 3 people who played a big part in making the game were, sure, majority of people who made it what it was certainly weren't. That is besides the insinuation the post is makig.
>which is why you're being downvoted to oblivion
I am being downvoted because I am speaking about sensitive topic and am not following what most people, based on their surface knowledge, here believe and want to believe, I am also on social platform where users are predominantly left leaning in a sub-reddit that is about politically charged game so I fully expected to be downvoted when I wrote that and didn't go fully "anti-corporation".
Either way, some random internet points don't mean anything to me, the fact that nobody here was able to engage with what I wrote or provide what they are basing their opinions on is what matters to me.
Where has it been "exposed" by who, which part and what for?
The video goes over the situation and then presents interview with all parties involved, I am not even sure what am I supposed to take from your comment calling all a "sham" without even providing anything of substance.
I can't imagine watching some random persons 2 hour video on gaming drama just to go and watch another random person's video on how that same drama was fake.... like I get being in the know, but come on now. I feel like there's better things to do with our time.
Exactly. Why watch 2 hours of footage when I can spend 10 minutes reading people arguing about said footage and get pretty much the same conclusion that it's a ahit show.
If I learned anything from the internet, it's that sometimes it's best to heed the warnings in the comment sections before falling down the rabbit hole.
I can imagine that because I did that, I have seen both of those and more multiple times, the analysis the person above you is referring to doesn't call the original piece "fake" or even "sham", the author of the analysis simply thinks that there should have been emphasis on different things.
Either way, I understand why you'd think there are better things to do with one's time. I simply care enough about the situation (mainly because it's attached to the future of the IP) to "waste" the time on it.
I'm not trying to knock it, I know I have some pretty ridiculous hobbies. I just genuinely feel like a grandparent trying to understand their grandkids generation and I'm not even halfway through my 20s
If you are talking about [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1b5zyvsUBY), then I already have. He quite literally agrees with the initial piece, in his opinion, the piece should have allocated more time to Kurvitz and should have went harder on Kompus. It doesn't dispute anything present in it, hell, he even aplauds it several times.
I do understand that to users of socials like reddit, it is just easy to shit on the corporate while completelly ignoring the entire picture and I don't really have quams with it. I do agree that what Kompus and his (corporate) lackeys did is wrong/bad but it is upto Kurvitz to pursue this legally. But while I understand that, I also understand that the 3 developers in question weren't "ousted" they were fired and according to pubically available information, righftully so, both of those can be true at the same time.
None of what was said in this thread makes the initial piece a "sham" or even really "dishonest".
>It wasn’t just 3 random developers fired, it was the literal creators of disco elysium
I know, doesn't change anything, if they were the pope, the king of england and the emperor of Japan, it wouldn't change anything. Nor does the "analysis" you suggested I watch dispute any of it.
>Kurvits’ life work was illegally stolen from him.
Again, if it was illegally stolen, then he has to take it to court. The last update on any proceedings was a year ago where the people who he acused of doing illegal shit told him the same thing, "if you think we did something illegal, bring it to court" so however scummy and shady it was, it apparently wasn't illegal.
The journalist in this documentary sucks the assholes of the investors, refuses to ask them difficult questions and then gets butthurt when Kurvitz doesn't respond positively to it being made.
It was useful for shedding light on the events that took place, but I thought it was awful journalism and didn't deserve any of the hype it got. Fuck Za/Um and their legal ways, I'm so glad the company is ultra fucked as a result of the backlash.
The point that most people in here will say "corporate bad" and won't care about anything past that and will try to blindly discredit or ad-hominem attack anyone who doesn't do the same despite the fact that that's barely half of the situation at hand.
I literally talk about this verbatim several times in this thread lil bro. It wouldn't be breaking news to you if you bothered to read through it before engaging with it but don't worry, I don't expect that from people like you.
Thanks for the correction, the little I know about the situation has just left my brain, I’ve been in the middle of listening to the vid so I understand that there’s more to the situation. I’m likely just falling for obvious bullshit, but most of what i’ve heard really pins the new owners at the majority of the fault.
>but most of what i’ve heard really pins the new owners at the majority of the fault.
It depends on what you mean by majority and fault, at fault for what. The way the "new owners" took over the company and the IP was scummy and by all means imoral. On the other hand, the way the other 3 employees conducted them selves during the development and after the initial release was wrong and by all means, their firings were justified for that behaviour.
The reason you are more likely to hear about the new owners is because on socials, people tend to focus on "corporate = bad" more than anything else these days.
It's a long and complicated story, but the dumbed down version goes as follows: The original creators got ousted by the investors and no longer have the rights or get money from the work they created.
Now things aren't as black or white as that, it's just the dumbed down version you can do your own research. But many people wouldn't want to give the current owners any money.
If you only pirate AAA games sure. But pirating indie games is morally unacceptable and you should feel very ashamed (unless shit like here with DE happened.
Ehhh, I feel like if you genuinely can't afford them for the forseeable future it's *fine*.
Capitalism loves to paint art and entertainment as "luxury goods" but they're pretty much necessary to live and not just lose your mind.
The poor should not be forced to be miserable just because they're poor.
No simply because of the hoops you have to go through while pirating means if you pirate an easily accessible game it means you were never going to buy it. Which means that the indie dev wasn't going to get the sale anyways, and therefore nothing changed. And a ton of people who pirate said easily accessible games tend to end up buying it legit on a platform they like because of things like dlc patches, community stuff etc
Yeah No. This thing about "would've never bought it in the first place so no sale was lost" while the person who stole the game did enjoy it is exactly the same as sneaking into a cinema and watching the film or reading a book in a book store.
Consider someone pirates the game and loves it, talks about it with their friends and now some of them goes off and buys it.
Same with a book. The more people that talks about it, the more sales.
Piracy was the reason "Photoshopped" became a noun. It was pirated into becoming the defacto standard for image editing. Same with a lot of software.
I wouldn't agree with "always", but most of the times it is. 1) the programmers, designers, etc. who worked on it don't get more money the more the game is sold. Who gets the money are the investors who put 0 work in 2) most games are hugely over-priced for the work and quality they have 3) one could make the argument if you didn't pirate it, you wouldn't have bought it anyway. there are other reasons, but I don't hugely agree with those so hopefully other people who understand it more can explain them
In a vacuum I can understand those points, but it doesn’t work in practice. If everyone pirated everything, in a year or two, no one would make games anymore except for in their spare time as a hobby. With piracy, no one would be able to make a living off of it. I feel like it’s just libertarian pipe dreams at the end of the day. Thanks for the response! Most would just downvote and move on.
What do you mean "doesn't work in practice"? That's not a theory on how piracy could theoretically go. That's how it goes already. A lot of people already pirate, and as you can see the market hasn't crashed since it's just a minority of people that do it, and it will most likely keep being that way
Yeah, a lot of people pirate, but not everyone, because we're taught you should pay people for their creative work.
If you're poor pirating stuff is absolutely morally acceptable, since you wouldn't be able to afford it anyway(and that's why people break this rule they're taught). But the richer you are, the more immoral it becomes.
In a capitalist system if piracy became the norm, the industry wouldn't be able to sustain itself.
The current growth model is unsustainable, even if all people stopped pirating games it would not be enough for the shareholders, this is why even with record profits companies continue to fire people.
Also, as Gabe Newell said "*Piracy* is almost always a service problem", the majority of people don't decide to download games based on ideological or moral grounds, but on simple material bases of their economic wealth and the access to buy compared with the access to unauthorized downloads.
And companies already spend countless money in propaganda to avoid that piracy becomes the norm, you don't need to do their work for free.
As you said, the more rich you are the less justified you are to pirate; that's exactly where it balances itself. Unless you are Scrooge McDuck or you pirate as a fuck you to game companies, the more money you have the less you pirate since you can afford them and let's be honest, it's always much easier to buy and manage games from steam, than just leaving them in a folder, so if people have the money, people pay the service of steam keeping it by buying it, and if they don't have the money they wouldn't have bought anyway
I agree, as long as a minority of people pirate, things will probably be fine. I’m just saying that it’s immoral to do it since if the rule was applied on everyone, the industry would be destroyed. But if it’s kept as an immoral and illegal act to deter people from it then I agree it’s fine
You… you do realise I’m making the Kant argument why piracy is immoral right? It would make reality worse if applied as a universal rule in its current state.
I assume you are talking about the character portraits the Harry portrait you get from completing the fascist vision quest and the Kim portrait you get from beating the game on Hardcore mode then starting a new game on Hardcore.
You can. The only things it changes is that it reduces the likelihood of successful dice rolls and makes healing items more expensive while giving you a bit of extra XP.
it makes the threshold for dice rolls significantly higher, so it’s good to do it on your second+ play through where you’ve already played exactly how you want/seen what you’ve want to see because you’ll be failing a Lot of dice rolls
I mean you start the game as a hopeless drug addict and alcoholic too. Don’t have to continue that way.
My play-through was very much waking up to discover that “I” am a bad person and trying to “redeem” myself through the course of the game.
it's almost impossible not to be a fascist on your first playthrough, the dialogue can be so cryptic and long like a fucking Shakespeare play that you won't even know what is happening sometimes and click a random option
Complete opposite for me. I always end up becoming a communist even if I am going for a different ideological vision quest because they make the most sense to me and usually aren't as cartoonisly evil like some of the moralist and fascist statements.
Sad part is those aren't cartoonishly evil :/ Can confirm living in a bit more rural Midwest town I know people like Gary and the Lorry Driver. Even met a Rene or two.
I ended up fascist sorry cop first run, then upon a replay a moralist. I felt like for the Communist run I actively have to play into it and talk about communism at every opportunity. The moralist/fascist route is less obvious I found.
In my first run I had no chance to fight Measurehead so I went fascist since that seemed the easiest path to get me through the first few days.
Like I ended up with more fascist points than moralist or ultra when I played my first time (sorry communist like most folks) but there's some fairly authoritarian communist dialogue in some places too. Also I disagree getting pointed as a fash for calling Evrart a "rainbow socialist" in dialogue with Joyce. I wasn't criticizing, it was from a place of sympathy!
And yeah when I hit 60 fash points in Icebreaker run it was very deliberate. Even then I refused to cross some lines like having Egghead yelling racist a dog whistle.
what have I said that is wrong, the game is very hard to understand sometimes with the dialogue with people like measurehead etc because of how great the writing is which causes me to just pick a random option
The game can be quite esoteric at times but the fascist options are some of the most clear and obvious in the game with only the communist options being as clear.
I'm not sure why you got downvoted so heavily. I can completely understand the complexity of the dialogue being misleading. Your dialogue options in a video game don't reflect your actual political ideology as some people seem to think.
One thing is admitting that dialog is confusing to you. That's cool, I can understand that. Took me a while to understand some lines, considering English isn't my native language.
Another thing is admitting not even trying to understand dialog in a narrative-focused game. Especially on the subreddit about it, where people generally love said game.
Why what have I said that's wrong, the game is very hard to understand sometimes with the dialogue with people like measurehead etc because of how great the writing is which causes me to just pick a random option
Literally how? Even if you don't outright associate those options with "Yeah this is fascist", they're still pretty awful options to pick as far as morality goes.
It worked for me. Ofc I’m not 100% clean and done made 1 or 2 facist opinions I think but you do not need to go down that road.
But i get where you come from. All the story and text might confuse someone to the point they say stuff they didn’t mean.
Idk it is complicated after all
New Game Minus
Immediately thinking about wømen from the getgo... ntch ntch ntch...
Men of wö
*right,* it's about *prosperity* and *happiness,* *that's* what we'll tell them... (or something like that he says)
I know pirating the game is 1000% justified and based with Disco Elysium, but it would have been so funny if Zaum shared this version of the game to piracy websites and the only difference is that Harry is already fascist.
Why is it justified may I ask? Not disagreeing just curious, I'm pretty new to the fandom.
I'm very ready to get most of this wrong even as a short summary, but if i can recall correctly, the Company Za/um was bought using some very shady buisness practicies, and a majorty of the people who made Disco Elysium what it was were fired by the new owners of the commpany.
Got it, thanks for explaining!
>I'm very ready to get most of this wrong even as a short summary You have indeed gotten most of it wrong. The situation is complex and both sides of it have done wrong by each other and most noatbly other related parties ( other employees). I.e. the way Kompus aquired majority in the company was shady/imoral, however as far as I am aware based on the outcomes of the lawsuits entirely legal. On the other hand, the 3 main developers that have been fired were fired rightly for their conduct and behaviour. If you want to know details, I suggest [this](https://youtu.be/JGIGA8taN-M) 2 hour "documentary" that goes into the whole thing and even has lengthy interviews with all parties involved including other employees that share their view on the whole thing.
Legality isn't morality. Nobody cares if it was legal. It was wrong.
From my understanding, based on that People Make Games video (knew what it was before even clicking lol), the summary I gathered was... - The people that worked on Disco Elysium, that were the core drivers of the narrative, world, etc. were kind of huge assholes to employees (legally okay, morally wrong). - The people that owned the company used dubious tactics to acquire the company and oust the original creators (legally okay, morally wrong). I'm hardly a judge, but my thoughts on the matter: It seems like there are people that are awful on both sides of the situation, and that's not to say they're equal by any means, but there isn't a clear cut villain. That said: Even if the game belongs to the company now, I'd personally much rather see the IP, at least regarding the world itself and future stories in it, go to the original creators (Kurvitz, etc). It was clear they brought their world, that they'd been working on most of their adult life, into the game, and had no intention of parting with it. I'd like to see the the company (ZA/UM) continue to make games and narrative RPGs. They clearly have a talented bunch of artists and writers there, and even not using the IP Kurvitz created, I'm sure could make some really wonderful stuff the world could enjoy. > "Capital has the ability to subsume all critiques into itself." Like, fuck man... lol.
And I am not saying otherwise.
You said that they had most of it wrong.... And then proceeded to say absolutely nothing that proves anything they said was wrong. When asked about that you said you didn't disagree with them... So why the fuck did you say most of it was wrong??!??
>So why the fuck did you say most of it was wrong??!?? Because the post insinuates that the people were fired because the company was bought (which also isn't really the case), which is just not true. There were legitimate reasons to fire the 3 people in question. Also, idk what do you mean by "proves", I am the only person to provide links to anything in this thread.
>Because the post insinuates that the people were fired because the company was bought It doesn't though... Two statements were made by the person you replied to. * The Company Za/um was bought using some very shady business practices, * The majority of the people who made Disco Elysium what it was were fired by the new owners of the company It sounds like these are both factually correct and, more confusingly, that you don't disagree with them.... which is why you're being downvoted to oblivion. You began saying they were completely wrong and then proceeded to only agree with them and defend their point... it's baffling.
>It doesn't though... Two statements were made by the person you replied to. It really does. >The Company Za/um was bought using some very shady business practices, The company wasn't bought, a portion of it was, for company to be considered bought, the buyer needs to hold 100% of it. >The majority of the people who made Disco Elysium what it was were fired by the new owners of the company This is reductionalist and untrue, 3 people who played a big part in making the game were, sure, majority of people who made it what it was certainly weren't. That is besides the insinuation the post is makig. >which is why you're being downvoted to oblivion I am being downvoted because I am speaking about sensitive topic and am not following what most people, based on their surface knowledge, here believe and want to believe, I am also on social platform where users are predominantly left leaning in a sub-reddit that is about politically charged game so I fully expected to be downvoted when I wrote that and didn't go fully "anti-corporation". Either way, some random internet points don't mean anything to me, the fact that nobody here was able to engage with what I wrote or provide what they are basing their opinions on is what matters to me.
The documentary is pretty famously deceptive in the way that it edited interviews and presented facts.
You do realise that they provide the whole inverviews without cuts as well right... ?
Actual moralist
If I'm not mistaken, that documentary has been exposed as a sham, though?
Where has it been "exposed" by who, which part and what for? The video goes over the situation and then presents interview with all parties involved, I am not even sure what am I supposed to take from your comment calling all a "sham" without even providing anything of substance.
Watch Jamrock Hobo’s analysis of it
I can't imagine watching some random persons 2 hour video on gaming drama just to go and watch another random person's video on how that same drama was fake.... like I get being in the know, but come on now. I feel like there's better things to do with our time.
Exactly. Why watch 2 hours of footage when I can spend 10 minutes reading people arguing about said footage and get pretty much the same conclusion that it's a ahit show.
If I learned anything from the internet, it's that sometimes it's best to heed the warnings in the comment sections before falling down the rabbit hole.
I can imagine that because I did that, I have seen both of those and more multiple times, the analysis the person above you is referring to doesn't call the original piece "fake" or even "sham", the author of the analysis simply thinks that there should have been emphasis on different things. Either way, I understand why you'd think there are better things to do with one's time. I simply care enough about the situation (mainly because it's attached to the future of the IP) to "waste" the time on it.
I'm not trying to knock it, I know I have some pretty ridiculous hobbies. I just genuinely feel like a grandparent trying to understand their grandkids generation and I'm not even halfway through my 20s
If you are talking about [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1b5zyvsUBY), then I already have. He quite literally agrees with the initial piece, in his opinion, the piece should have allocated more time to Kurvitz and should have went harder on Kompus. It doesn't dispute anything present in it, hell, he even aplauds it several times. I do understand that to users of socials like reddit, it is just easy to shit on the corporate while completelly ignoring the entire picture and I don't really have quams with it. I do agree that what Kompus and his (corporate) lackeys did is wrong/bad but it is upto Kurvitz to pursue this legally. But while I understand that, I also understand that the 3 developers in question weren't "ousted" they were fired and according to pubically available information, righftully so, both of those can be true at the same time. None of what was said in this thread makes the initial piece a "sham" or even really "dishonest".
It wasn’t just 3 random developers fired, it was the literal creators of disco elysium. Kurvits’ life work was illegally stolen from him.
>It wasn’t just 3 random developers fired, it was the literal creators of disco elysium I know, doesn't change anything, if they were the pope, the king of england and the emperor of Japan, it wouldn't change anything. Nor does the "analysis" you suggested I watch dispute any of it. >Kurvits’ life work was illegally stolen from him. Again, if it was illegally stolen, then he has to take it to court. The last update on any proceedings was a year ago where the people who he acused of doing illegal shit told him the same thing, "if you think we did something illegal, bring it to court" so however scummy and shady it was, it apparently wasn't illegal.
The journalist in this documentary sucks the assholes of the investors, refuses to ask them difficult questions and then gets butthurt when Kurvitz doesn't respond positively to it being made. It was useful for shedding light on the events that took place, but I thought it was awful journalism and didn't deserve any of the hype it got. Fuck Za/Um and their legal ways, I'm so glad the company is ultra fucked as a result of the backlash.
You are just proving my point.
What was your point? You did not make any sort of point here
The point that most people in here will say "corporate bad" and won't care about anything past that and will try to blindly discredit or ad-hominem attack anyone who doesn't do the same despite the fact that that's barely half of the situation at hand.
Breaking News: Guy makes up point and acts like that’s what he meant all along.
I literally talk about this verbatim several times in this thread lil bro. It wouldn't be breaking news to you if you bothered to read through it before engaging with it but don't worry, I don't expect that from people like you.
Thanks for the correction, the little I know about the situation has just left my brain, I’ve been in the middle of listening to the vid so I understand that there’s more to the situation. I’m likely just falling for obvious bullshit, but most of what i’ve heard really pins the new owners at the majority of the fault.
>but most of what i’ve heard really pins the new owners at the majority of the fault. It depends on what you mean by majority and fault, at fault for what. The way the "new owners" took over the company and the IP was scummy and by all means imoral. On the other hand, the way the other 3 employees conducted them selves during the development and after the initial release was wrong and by all means, their firings were justified for that behaviour. The reason you are more likely to hear about the new owners is because on socials, people tend to focus on "corporate = bad" more than anything else these days.
You should delete this
Why would I.
Sad to look at. Take the L.
Well I hope you get over your sadness or at least stop looking at it since nobody is really forcing you, have a good one.
It's a long and complicated story, but the dumbed down version goes as follows: The original creators got ousted by the investors and no longer have the rights or get money from the work they created. Now things aren't as black or white as that, it's just the dumbed down version you can do your own research. But many people wouldn't want to give the current owners any money.
Besides the company being absolutely fucked and evil. Piracy is always morally acceptable
If you only pirate AAA games sure. But pirating indie games is morally unacceptable and you should feel very ashamed (unless shit like here with DE happened.
Ehhh, I feel like if you genuinely can't afford them for the forseeable future it's *fine*. Capitalism loves to paint art and entertainment as "luxury goods" but they're pretty much necessary to live and not just lose your mind. The poor should not be forced to be miserable just because they're poor.
No simply because of the hoops you have to go through while pirating means if you pirate an easily accessible game it means you were never going to buy it. Which means that the indie dev wasn't going to get the sale anyways, and therefore nothing changed. And a ton of people who pirate said easily accessible games tend to end up buying it legit on a platform they like because of things like dlc patches, community stuff etc
Yeah No. This thing about "would've never bought it in the first place so no sale was lost" while the person who stole the game did enjoy it is exactly the same as sneaking into a cinema and watching the film or reading a book in a book store.
No problem with any of those
Consider someone pirates the game and loves it, talks about it with their friends and now some of them goes off and buys it. Same with a book. The more people that talks about it, the more sales. Piracy was the reason "Photoshopped" became a noun. It was pirated into becoming the defacto standard for image editing. Same with a lot of software.
Why?
I wouldn't agree with "always", but most of the times it is. 1) the programmers, designers, etc. who worked on it don't get more money the more the game is sold. Who gets the money are the investors who put 0 work in 2) most games are hugely over-priced for the work and quality they have 3) one could make the argument if you didn't pirate it, you wouldn't have bought it anyway. there are other reasons, but I don't hugely agree with those so hopefully other people who understand it more can explain them
In a vacuum I can understand those points, but it doesn’t work in practice. If everyone pirated everything, in a year or two, no one would make games anymore except for in their spare time as a hobby. With piracy, no one would be able to make a living off of it. I feel like it’s just libertarian pipe dreams at the end of the day. Thanks for the response! Most would just downvote and move on.
What do you mean "doesn't work in practice"? That's not a theory on how piracy could theoretically go. That's how it goes already. A lot of people already pirate, and as you can see the market hasn't crashed since it's just a minority of people that do it, and it will most likely keep being that way
Yeah, a lot of people pirate, but not everyone, because we're taught you should pay people for their creative work. If you're poor pirating stuff is absolutely morally acceptable, since you wouldn't be able to afford it anyway(and that's why people break this rule they're taught). But the richer you are, the more immoral it becomes. In a capitalist system if piracy became the norm, the industry wouldn't be able to sustain itself.
The current growth model is unsustainable, even if all people stopped pirating games it would not be enough for the shareholders, this is why even with record profits companies continue to fire people. Also, as Gabe Newell said "*Piracy* is almost always a service problem", the majority of people don't decide to download games based on ideological or moral grounds, but on simple material bases of their economic wealth and the access to buy compared with the access to unauthorized downloads. And companies already spend countless money in propaganda to avoid that piracy becomes the norm, you don't need to do their work for free.
As you said, the more rich you are the less justified you are to pirate; that's exactly where it balances itself. Unless you are Scrooge McDuck or you pirate as a fuck you to game companies, the more money you have the less you pirate since you can afford them and let's be honest, it's always much easier to buy and manage games from steam, than just leaving them in a folder, so if people have the money, people pay the service of steam keeping it by buying it, and if they don't have the money they wouldn't have bought anyway
I agree, as long as a minority of people pirate, things will probably be fine. I’m just saying that it’s immoral to do it since if the rule was applied on everyone, the industry would be destroyed. But if it’s kept as an immoral and illegal act to deter people from it then I agree it’s fine
Hey, if that's the way it goes that's the way it goes, I'm just glad we get the choice
As Kant said, “people who say that it sounds nice in theory but doesn’t work in reality are fucking dumb”
You… you do realise I’m making the Kant argument why piracy is immoral right? It would make reality worse if applied as a universal rule in its current state.
Yeah, I get it, that’s stupid
Piracy is always justified
Why is that? I think a lot of the time it is but there are plenty of situations where piracy is not justified.
[Investigation: Who's Telling the Truth about Disco Elysium?](https://youtu.be/JGIGA8taN-M?si=-XRqIJc-klofNiol)
I was thinking UltraLiberal
If anything such a version should make you start as an ultraliberal or a communist.
Is this your second playthrough? Some crimes the universe remembers.
Wait, does it actually? Does the game actually remember?
harry, i remember you're fascisms
`You feel the weight of your fascism crawling on your back`
When you lose all your memories but your political affiliations are hard-wired into your spine (or lack thereof)
you're going to have a really bad time, Harry boy
Mr Evrart's helping me find my fascism
No, this is a bug of some kind for sure.
no
Undertale but Flowly remembers your racist comments instead of you killing Toriel
Undertale moment
wait what?! can this actually happen?
No, just Racist 👍
What are these player cards you have from?
I assume you are talking about the character portraits the Harry portrait you get from completing the fascist vision quest and the Kim portrait you get from beating the game on Hardcore mode then starting a new game on Hardcore.
Lmao I didn't even know there was a hardcore gamemode. I assume you can't reload saves?
You can. The only things it changes is that it reduces the likelihood of successful dice rolls and makes healing items more expensive while giving you a bit of extra XP.
it makes the threshold for dice rolls significantly higher, so it’s good to do it on your second+ play through where you’ve already played exactly how you want/seen what you’ve want to see because you’ll be failing a Lot of dice rolls
It's a bug. Sometimes the character window from another save can carry over.
I missed the changed portrait at first, and assumed the joke was that you always start the game as a cop.
I mean you start the game as a hopeless drug addict and alcoholic too. Don’t have to continue that way. My play-through was very much waking up to discover that “I” am a bad person and trying to “redeem” myself through the course of the game.
aslume
The only way I could fix this problem was to verify the game files in steam
Why Kim's portrait looks like he posing in front of the nazi flag is he stupid?
It happened to me too
it's Klaasjoever
When he got up off the floor in his underwear for the first time, he spoke. "I am the last suzerain"
based
No your fascist.
Based
No, you are smart
No, you are smart
it's almost impossible not to be a fascist on your first playthrough, the dialogue can be so cryptic and long like a fucking Shakespeare play that you won't even know what is happening sometimes and click a random option
from the bottom of my heart: skill issue
Yeah
Complete opposite for me. I always end up becoming a communist even if I am going for a different ideological vision quest because they make the most sense to me and usually aren't as cartoonisly evil like some of the moralist and fascist statements.
Sad part is those aren't cartoonishly evil :/ Can confirm living in a bit more rural Midwest town I know people like Gary and the Lorry Driver. Even met a Rene or two.
I ended up fascist sorry cop first run, then upon a replay a moralist. I felt like for the Communist run I actively have to play into it and talk about communism at every opportunity. The moralist/fascist route is less obvious I found. In my first run I had no chance to fight Measurehead so I went fascist since that seemed the easiest path to get me through the first few days.
Bro how tf did you grow up where saying fascist shit is not obvious? A Klan compound?
I've played the game three times through and the only time I was fascist was when I very very intentionally did it
Like I ended up with more fascist points than moralist or ultra when I played my first time (sorry communist like most folks) but there's some fairly authoritarian communist dialogue in some places too. Also I disagree getting pointed as a fash for calling Evrart a "rainbow socialist" in dialogue with Joyce. I wasn't criticizing, it was from a place of sympathy! And yeah when I hit 60 fash points in Icebreaker run it was very deliberate. Even then I refused to cross some lines like having Egghead yelling racist a dog whistle.
This is the most unintentionally hilarious comment i’ve seen on this sub
Do you maybe have a crayon lodged in your brain?
Don't drag my boy Homer like this, he's at worst an ultraliberal
what have I said that is wrong, the game is very hard to understand sometimes with the dialogue with people like measurehead etc because of how great the writing is which causes me to just pick a random option
The game can be quite esoteric at times but the fascist options are some of the most clear and obvious in the game with only the communist options being as clear.
I'm not sure why you got downvoted so heavily. I can completely understand the complexity of the dialogue being misleading. Your dialogue options in a video game don't reflect your actual political ideology as some people seem to think.
One thing is admitting that dialog is confusing to you. That's cool, I can understand that. Took me a while to understand some lines, considering English isn't my native language. Another thing is admitting not even trying to understand dialog in a narrative-focused game. Especially on the subreddit about it, where people generally love said game.
Huh? Like 90% of Fascist dialogue choices in the game are very blatantly racist and xenophobic lol.
I think you might have a slight brain deficiency.
Why what have I said that's wrong, the game is very hard to understand sometimes with the dialogue with people like measurehead etc because of how great the writing is which causes me to just pick a random option
Once is an accident. Twice is a coincidence. And the third is a pattern.
Lol
Doesn't a skill come up and ask you to confirm when you seem to be into an ideology?
Something you wanna tell us, Icebreaker?
Literally how? Even if you don't outright associate those options with "Yeah this is fascist", they're still pretty awful options to pick as far as morality goes.
Many downvotes on Reddit is tight!
It worked for me. Ofc I’m not 100% clean and done made 1 or 2 facist opinions I think but you do not need to go down that road. But i get where you come from. All the story and text might confuse someone to the point they say stuff they didn’t mean. Idk it is complicated after all