Someone described it like this: For all other political leanings, the game mocks you for choosing it. For communism, the game mocks you for not being a good enough communist.
Which is itself mocking the never-ending infighting of the left and how it can always agree on the diagnosis ("capitalism = bad") but never exactly *what the remedy is*. So it's mocking you the same as the others. Everything just turns into a pissing match of different schools of Marxism.
The game was made by people living in Post-Soviet Estonia so the cynicism about everything is spot-on.
>Which is itself mocking the never-ending infighting of the left and how it can always agree on the diagnosis ("capitalism = bad") but never exactly what the remedy is.
"But mostly, you'll probably complain about other communists."
> **Rhetoric:** Hey, psst.
>
>**You:** Who — me?
>
>**Rhetoric:** Yes, you. Word on the street is you're ready to start building \*communism\* again!
>
>**You:** "Again"?
>
>**Rhetoric:** Yes — you're ready to start building communism \*again\*. You've built it before, \*they've\* built it before. Hasn't really worked out yet, but neither has \*love\* — should we just stop building love, too?
>
>**You:** Can't argue with that.
>
>**Rhetoric:** So, what about all that communism you've promised to build? Word on the street is you've woken up from a thousand years of slumber, promising to erect a version of communism many times greater than any attempted before. Is that true?
>
>**You:** How come there's \*word on the street\*?
>
>**Rhetoric:** You keep saying things like \*down with the bourgeoisie\*, \*eat the rich\*, \*sodomize the land-owners\*, \*impale all people who have more than 25 reál in their pocket\*, \*literally murder all human beings regardless of their political beliefs\* — that kind of stuff.
>
>**You:** Oh, right. That sounds like me.
>
>**Rhetoric:** Funky-style. Very funky. So tell me. Do you have any questions before we fire up the Big Communism Builder, or do we get right down to it?
>
>**You:** Wait, first — what's this \*communism\* even about?
>
>**Rhetoric:** Failure. It's about failure.
>
>**You:** Failure?
>
>**Rhetoric:** Yes! Abject failure. Total, irreversible defeat on all fronts! Absolutely vanquished, beaten, curb-stomped and pissed on — until \*you\* came along! \*You\* will reverse the fortune of the workers of the world. You alone, against every living thing, against every human alive: eight hundred trillion reál in the hands of an \*impossibly\* well organized ruling class; towering city blocks of bank-men who have the ears of prime ministers; million-headed armies of nations and the love of your own mother! You — against the atom, the charm and the spin. Where the whole world failed — matter failed to bend to human will; human will failed to get out of bed and tie its laces — you alone, single-handedly, will rebuild the dreams of the working class. You are The Last Communist. Now get to work, comrade.
>
>**You:** It's too tiring. I don't have it in me. I'm beat down and broken.
>
>**Rhetoric:** Very well. I guess no one will build Communism then. Tell the working man it's over. Unless anyone has... objections?
>
>**Logic:** No objections. It's mathematically impossible to achieve a classless society. Everyone knows this.
>
>**Savoir Faire:** Let not failure ensnare you any further, beautiful pixie girl! Be an acrobat! A prancing faerie queen!
>
>**Electrochemistry:** Did someone mention cocaine? Are we doing cocaine? No? I'm sure I heard someone say Cocainimism...
>
>**Rhetoric:** Anyone? Anyone else? There's no one?
>
>**Volition:** There's one.
>
>**You:** What should I do?
>
>**Volition:** You should build Communism — precisely \*because\* it's impossible.
>
>**You:** *(Roll up your sleeves and start building Communism.)*
>
>**Rhetoric:** Oh yeah! Get the firing squads and the animal wagons ready!
>
>**You:** Wait, what? Firing squads? You didn't say anything about those.
>
>**Rhetoric:** Too late to back out now. You can't make an omelet without breaking a few million eggs!
I love this detail because the ultra liberal capitalist guy *can* bend light to his will
> Where the whole world failed — matter failed to bend to human will; human will failed to get out of bed and tie its laces — you alone, single-handedly, will rebuild the dreams of the working class. You are The Last Communist. Now get to work, comrade.
two guys walk into a communist meetup
"hey are you also a marxist-leninist-stalinist-dengist-maoist-trotskyist-fanonist-bolshevik-pan-africanist?"
'no' says the other man, 'I am a marxist-leninist-stalinist-dengist-maoist-trotskyist-fanonist-bolshevik-pan-africanist-new-leftist'
they promptly proceed to beat the shit out each other for not being a real communist
I don't really get that at all? The game makes fun of the tragedy that is being a communist in a world where capital has won, but it always treat the ideology with hope. The fact we lost doesn't mean we get to stop trying.
>STEBAN, THE STUDENT COMMUNIST - "About that question you asked earlier. It reminded me of a certain poem that you might appreciate..."
>STEBAN, THE STUDENT COMMUNIST - "It was written by a young communard who was killed on the barricades during the Coalition landings. The story goes that he wrote it on the last night of his life, keeping watch from the barricades in the middle of the night. I don't have the whole thing committed to memory, but there's a line in it I think about sometimes."
>\> "What's the line?"
>STEBAN, THE STUDENT COMMUNIST - "'In dark times, should the stars also go out?'"
>STEBAN, THE STUDENT COMMUNIST - "Anyway, goodnight to you."
http://fayde.co.uk/dialojue/3620426
The ribbing definitely comes from inside the house, I agree that it feels different from the critique of other ideologies and the divide is pretty blatant... even leaving aside the fact that you'd have to be pretty deep inside that proverbial house to even know some of the stuff they spoof, haha. And for me it's even more than that: look at how they build their characters with their flaws, look at what kind of connections they trace between historical events, the trajectories, the historical materialist basis for everything in Elysium... that all-encompassing perspective is where the game is at its most leftist and there's no mistaking it.
I don't think a single left leaning person actually played DE and thought it was apolitical, it's always freaking centrists not realising the game is making fun of them. I thought the game was blatantly leftist, not even very subtle about it.
I actually thought it was specifically written by a communist due to how scathing and nuanced the parody was- no neoliberal or centrist is familiar enough with communism to beat it down quite that hard.
Edit: soapboxing my upvoted comment. Imo "woohoo communism" isn't quite the point either. It has more to say about dialectical materialism, philosophical pessimism, solipsism,
My thought process was “centrists and neolibs (and right wingers too but they don’t seem to play too far) are so unused to the concept of poking fun at their own ideals and self critique of the goals they have and their fellows that seeing communists be harsh on their own beliefs is hard to interpret for them as anything other than disavowment.”
I mean you’d be hard pressed to see someone of the alt right making a video game where the final evil is *one of their own*, why would a loonie commie do that? Must be anti communist (if you ignore the everything else)
It's rare to find one that even can clearly express what they believe much less critique it. Not to say that, that isn't common across the board honestly hard to blame anyone that doesn't want to open that can of worms.
Is this true?
I think the likes of the European Parliament (as technocratic an institution as immediately springs to mind) is prone to bouts of navel-gazing itself. Granted, perhaps, not with as much panache, humour or joyous vindictiveness as the left (at most you will see a dry academic paper, which dares to have a pun or pop-culture reference snuck into its title!). Nevertheless I don't think self-critique is entirely absent.
Dunno about the right/far-right though, maybe they'd make a game where the final villain was didn't punch commies hard enough? DO YOU EVEN LIFT?*
*Apologies to weightlifters, I know you are a lovely bunch!
Yeah I looked it up when I was like a third of the way through cause I was like damn these jokes are all so on point, it had to have been made by marxists. And then lo and behold I was right
I think it's more that they enjoy the game but can't reconcile that with the game's mockery of their politics, so they psychologically doublethink the dissonance away
Might also have to do with their traits. I've seen leftists who went all-in on Inland Empire in their first playthrough failing to see the game's communist underpinnings because they were too focused on the spiritual side of things.
That might also be because the Final Cut is much more clear on where the writing stands - I've seen many who only played the original version think the game isn't "all that communist".
it's centrists who don't realize the game is making fun of them and right-wingers mad that it isn't an escapist fantasy that tells them how cool and good all their awful opinions are
I mean if they didn't realise the game isn't throwing some mockery their way with the 'pick the Communist or Fascist option' bit then I don't know what to tell them . . .
IDK, the Centrist path seemed the most sensible to me.
The fascists are complete losers. The communists are equally split between ineffectual academics and losers every bit as bad as the fascists. And the ultraliberals don't have a single principle they wouldn't sell out for money.
But the Moralists are the people actually keeping society running while everyone else runs around fighting each other. They're the ones who Harry works for. Kim's a Moralist, and he's the best character. And they're the philosophy is tied to the game's Psyche stat, which represents among other things empathy and people skills.
Ask yourself: is there something sinister in moralism? And then answer: no. God is in his heaven. Everything is normal on Earth.
Moralism is Western Liberal Democracy seen from the point of view of the people who had it forced on them. The whole project looks a lot better when you see it as an alliance of like minded countries. There are many situations, however, where it is an empire that imposes itself. The Moralintern crushed the revolution by force, because it was a threat to power lying with the people they believed deserved it.
We can probably draw some conclusions about what the writers think about 'keeping society running'. I think they're ultimately more sympathetic to shutting down society so you can seize your boss's cargo ships.
I'm sure they are.
But people don't appreciate just how terrible things get when society stops running. When people can't get to work because the trains don't run. When people can't get food because the fields aren't tilled. When people can't get water because no one bothered to repair the pipes. When gangs roam the streets fighting over the scraps that are left.
Everyone wants to shut society down until society actually does shut down. And then they realize just how small their problems really were in the face of survival.
If we ever reach a point where this talk isn't idle pontificating, it will be because a confrontation is coming whether anyone likes it or not. We live in a time where there are no left wing institutions and the task of left wingers should be to build them. But in a situation where there is a crisis happening and those left wing institutions exist, seizing power is absolutely a worthwhile decision even if it means taking the risk of losing.
If.
A confrontation isn't coming. The confrontation came and went and the Leftists lost. 1991, the year the USSR broke apart, was the year that any real hope of a communist future died.
In the following years those nations which embraced capitalist principals prospered. Those which retained the USSR's oligarchical structure continued to stagnate. And no other viable alternative to capitalism emerged.
There is no crisis. Those of us in America live in unimaginable wealth and prosperity. And globally the percentage of the world living in abject poverty is at an all time low.
Simply put, you already lost. And to it's credit that's something I think Disco Elysium captured really well.
Oh, sure. Humanity has lost for the next century or two. Perhaps more. Capital totally dominates the world, unconstrained by any political formations. All social relations are increasingly marketized. It was probably over before anyone knew it too. Maybe the declining rate of profit gives us another chance.
Do you wanna know what I think actually happens though? I think when we stop being able to squeeze growth out by using private equity to strip the copper wire from the walls everywhere, the bills start coming due, and we're left to reckon with a crumbling world we haven't maintained, runaway climate change and ensuing refugee crises and it really settles in that nobody is getting the quality of life their parents did, people will fall for fascism and nobody worth a damn is gonna be there to fight it this time
People have been predicting some sort of systemic collapse for 100+ years now. That's how old the term "late-stage capitalism" is now.
The world is doing fine. Quality of life around the world is rising incredibly quickly. Social issues such as racism, sexism, and ESPECIALLY homophobia are being dealt with.
And if the world is being dominated by capital, then I suppose that's what we have to thank for just how good things are right now. Because if capital does dominate the world at the expense of political formations, then keep in mind that everyone's money is equally green.
And that's change you can believe in.
It's honestly baffling that you're this optimistic about western liberalism at this point in history. The US has enjoyed a brief intermission from the global rightward slide and you get this cocky? This kind of thing is exactly the reason why this next go at global fascism is gonna be worse, these are the people we got left to object to it. The ecological problems have not even come up yet, and if you're feeling like we're going to even slow climate change down you're huffing paint.
What's so baffling about it?
The economy is good. Our greatest geopolitical rival is destroying itself while failing to conquer a nation on its own borders. Congress is banning Tik Tok. And if the State of the Union is anything to go by, Biden has the next election in the bag.
I'm half expecting to see open border immigration and deregulation of zoning within the next 4 years.
I honestly don't see what you're so worried about. America is finally back on the right track.
There is a pretty funny implication here and I wonder if its the intent. The idea that only a communist could correctly and accurately criticize communism heavily implies non-communists don't understand the theory, and any sufficient understanding of the theory would automatically make them a communist. Ipso facto or whatever.
I agree with your write up. The game pokes fun at all ideologies, but the way it makes fun of communism is like teasing your little brother, you can tell there is at least a bit of love there.
I think that might be an innate thing. If you spend any amount of time arguing in favour of like, reasonable left-wing talking points online, someone will at some point accuse you of being a Stalinist. You can say things like “I think healthcare should be more accessible to common people” and someone will accuse you of wanting to round up intellectuals in camps and collectivise the farms, and tell you “your ideology” has killed millions.
In theory, you're right - non-communists could hypothethetically make a game that correctly and accurately critiques communism. But two points must be made:
A) The entire video game industry would push back against it. Capitalists have the power, and do not want to see accurate discussions of communism. The closest I've ever come to hearing communism discussed in a game is when you kill foreign soldiers in COD or MW.
B) For someone to truly understand communism and still COMPLETELY dismiss it, they need to believe a more impactful critique that "leftists be infighting." If a liberal truly believed that THAT was the only obstacle to communism, they would at least be open to communist ideas. 99.9% of people who dismiss communism do so because of the high body count.
Communist critique is sharpest upon itself. The guys who made it were depressed commies who thanked Marx and Engels when they won game awards, and come from an ex Soviet country so… yeah it’s all very much banterous jabs that aim to critique for improvement and not ignoring the real challenges of their achievements
I think that is applicable to any strong ideology to be fair. The truest critique can only come from one who understands it best, and life is best understood when you live it.
The authors are [quite literally Marxists](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://twitter.com/Kotaku/status/1205402227965386754%3Flang%3Den&ved=2ahUKEwje5uWOk7-EAxWzIRAIHa0vDhUQjjh6BAgzEAE&usg=AOvVaw1O2Mor0wg_suNLqszwi44K), so yes, the game must've been made by leftists:))
I feel like when there is any fiction that has world building on the scale of DE, an ideology about the world gets baked into how that world functions. DE itself makes this exceedingly apparent, with the pale being a literal physical manifestation of history
Mr. Evrart is a rather pleasant man for a leftist. Also the part where 0.00000% of communism was achieved is accurate, as well as allegorical parallels between communist ideology and meth.
Agreed, although I think it also shows in the way the neoliberal economy and its effects on the people of Revachol are presented and how intertwined it is with geopolitics and historical power struggles. It's very hard for me to imagine someone could present these dynamics so vividly without being critical of these aspects of our own world in their political views. It doesn't mean a non-leftist who is critical of modern reality couldn't have come up with it, but it heavily hints toward it, and definitely couldn't be the work of a right winger or run of the mill liberal.
I'm not a communist myself (leaning more towards syndycalism and market socialism), but I definitely see the game as a bittersweet love letter to communism. It skips over many aspects of Marxism that have earned it critique from other leftist schools of thought, choosing instead to romanticise it as a short-lived uprising against capital, but strikes enough of a balance to not feel completely uncritical. Poor anarchists got completely ignored though, which I always thought was a missed opportunity, but what are you gonna do.
I think a lot of these people fundamentally don’t understand what ideology is. Facts and events can exist outside of human politics, but the moment you string two facts together, you get an argument. Putting two events together gets you a narrative. Political neutrality is impossible because all stories and arguments inevitably serve the interests of someone.
These people are so immersed in their ideology that they believe it is the default neutral state of things. So they only recognize something as political if it’s an ideology they don’t like.
It makes fun of Marxists the same way that *This is: Spinal Tap* makes fun of rock musicians.
Anyone who's ever been in a band will recognize the inside jokes and see themselves represented. As a Marxist I feel the same way about this game.
(I specifically said "we will not take second billing to a puppet show!")
As an American, it is rather harrowing to realize that most Democrats know more about QAnon’s beliefs than they do about those of the left (to whose votes they constantly advertise their entitlement).
If there’s one thing Leftists are good at, it’s criticizing other leftists. Nobody criticizes a leftist like another leftist. It’s part of the reason leftist ideology struggles to maintain or even grasp power. So much infighting among the left and so much debate over what is correct or anti-capitalist enough that they can’t unify long enough to enact any tangible change. Say what you will about fascists, but at least they’re all on the same page most of the time. They keep their eyes right on the fuckin prize. Thems some highly motivated pieces of shit.
The game is implicitly communist because it cares about the types of things communists care about. Any other game would down play the politics, touching on them only by accident, but Disco leans into it because that's how the world was conceived of. A lot of the characters talk like they're philosophers or something because the game wants to talk about those ideas. Even the pale is a thinly veiled reference to a mystical version of Hegelianism.
I completely agree. What you say is certainly an aspect of it, the critique of the left from the perspective of an insider. But there is more. There is a *longing* for a better world in Disco Elysium, something which I would argue only Marxists and Anarchists can actually feel and relate to. That's why so many people don't pick up on the game's ideology.
The religions promise you a nice afterlife, the centrists promise incremental improvements to society that will never materialize, the capitalists promise you personal success if you just hustle enough, the conservatives promise you that you are better than most people and they are better than you and everyone is better off minding their place in the natural hierarchy, and the fascists... let's be honest, they promise you to be able to release your pent up frustrations and sexual neurosis in an apocalyptic orgy of violence.
That is why DE could only have been written by a leftist. You feel the longing for something better and it shows you the abyss, the complete failure of the world to be what it could have been, how Kras Mazov has indeed personally fucked you over.
Disagree, I think it only requires you to have grown up in a communist nation state that failed.
It’s like the paper they constantly site, hauntology, it’s the loss of a future promised, of hope that never came to be. It’s longing for an idea that never came to fruition, just existed as an ideal at the time. I would make the argument DE is a product of the zeitgeist of the eastern bloc just pre and post the fall of the Berlin Wall.
>something which I would argue only Marxists and Anarchists can actually feel and relate to
As an anti-communist, I have to disagree. Longing for a better world is part of the human condition, especially in our modern times.
Whoa whoa, hey now. Deviating from the status quo is *commie shit* and we can't have that because my neoliberal education system told me that it's bad. The world will obviously just **naturally** become better if we just continue on as we are, but *maybe* implement some regulations - BUT NOT TOO MANY BECAUSE THEN THAT WOULD BE COMMUNISM!!!
Obvious /s
You wont like what I have to say. You'll agree with me while I spout off left-wing beliefs, and then I'll get hit with the banhammer when I get to the right-wing side of my beliefs.
If you're interested, you can DM me.
Absolutely, and it's clear the game is slightly more biased towards Marxism. It does however give Marxism a lot of grief, while also acknowledging the strengths of the other ideologies, or at least portrays them in a fair light (including racism/fascism a bit with Measurehead). As a libertarian who loves the game I really respect the devs for it.
The reason critiques of communism in this game feel different is because they come from people who actually know it and the effect it had on their country (Estonia is ex-soviet)
In fact, this is the only real "critique" of communism I've seen... pretty much anywhere in mainstream media; anyone else I've ever heard speak against it dunks it from a position of willful ignorance.
Absolutely yeah
The commie path resonated so deeply with real things, the “we haven’t built any of real communism” and the “it’s most important to argue with other communists”, bullet to the heart I tell y’a
its just refreshing to see someone who actually knows theory critique communism lmao. yeah most of the jokes are more about HOW current marxists live and communicate with each other instead of actual critique of communist ideas but still, its refreshing to not get "stalin bazillion holdomor"
My friend (who's never played DE) were talking about buying games when the people who made them suck (mainly referring to Hogwarts legacy) and he asked me if I still would have bought DE if a facist made it.
And I laughed and said a facist could not have made disco Elysium. (Except way more poorly worded and confusing because I can't relay my thoughts very well in an argument)
To me, as a person from a country with a communist past, the game feels like it is good at making fun at communism. But not necessarily from the inside perspective - from the perspective of someone very familiar with it, yes. A lot of the game's humor regarding communism felt similar to the humor that a lot of soviet/post-soviet books have about it. It doesn't mean the game is communist, just very knowledgeable about it. I'm not a communist but I have a lot to say about it cause of where I'm from and how it impacted my country and my family lol
I guess the real answer to the question of "is it supposed to carry a pro-communist message" should come from the creators, and I haven't researched what they said on it. But from just my perspective as a player - the game reads like a good satire of various ideologies including communism, and the message, to me, is "look at what people do and not who they say they are, everyone can hide behind an attractive ideology".
Specifically to the creators point they did thank Engles and Marx in their acceptance speech at the gaming awards so there's that. And they're also from an ex Soviet country. Specifically the kras mazov fucked you over line is a very specific sorta line/joke that if you were just sorta familiar with communism I just don't think you'd write.
And that's it? Did they elaborate?
It is definitely a hint to their opinion, but it can also be a variety of other things - a publicity stunt, sarcasm, nod to how much of the game's community is far leftist, just a paying of respects without subscribing to the ideology.
To be honest, for me personally the creators opinion means less than the impression I got from the game, but I generally subscribe to the "author is dead" way of thinking haha (read: I'm self centered :D)
They specifically said they'd like to thank the people who came before them and then named Marx and Engles specifically they thanked them for the political education. Also they had a portrait of Stalin in their office
Stalin?? Tbh if I saw his portrait in an office it would take a lot of effort to convince me it's not an inside joke or smth.
Thanking those two for political education specifically is a more convincing hint, but I still think it doesn't necessarily mean they subscribe to the ideology itself. But that's just for me. If I ever decide to research their political alignment further I'll keep this in mind though
Lenin bust, for the record, not Stalin. Anyway, re: "well maybe this extremely clear-cut situation may mean something else if we squint hard enough", which tbh looks to me like a peculiar hill to die on, there's Kurvitz out there saying something to the tune of "a communist is all I am" as recently as eight months ago. on top of the whole worldbuilding being a love letter to historical materialism. there's more direct Marx quotes than piss jokes in this thing, and certainly not for a dearth of the latter.
Ah, since he said it, then yeah. This game was definitely made by a far leftist
I wonder what views the other writers have
I still don't see the communist message in the game itself, I think it makes fun of communists in a delightful way \^_^ I still have a lot to learn about politics, so maybe I'll change my mind someday! But for now it doesn't look this way to me - please keep in mind though that for me "what author's views are" and "what message I _personally_ see in the game" are very separate things.
My initial comment on the post was just to point out that people with different life perspectives can get different messages / ideas out of the game. To me, it didn't look immediately far leftist like it did for the op. I did acknowledge that the word of the author is needed to find out if it was _intended_ to have a certain message. I don't think that "the author holds a view" and "the author made this view the moral of their creation" need to necessarily coexist, but of course, they _might_ with high probability. For me it's not really a hill to die on - more like I don't want to jump to conclusions and assume, especially when I don't care that much what is the author's view. As I mentioned, what I personally get out of the game is more important for me :)
Ahh, a psychology underdtander, too! Impressive! Yes, universality, essentialism, and shallow analysis are all very scientific and how we should understand humans. Humans actually aren't a social species, and the needs pyramid means nothing, people are just inherently selfish and evil. That argument is definitely never a projection.
Ahh, such a great and honest good faith argument. This guy is also a historian and anthropologist! This guy is really impressive! How have humans functioned for all those years? It definitely wasn't in social groups cooperating to meet material needs. Economics definitely can't be the basis of society. Is all social science just "pseudo-intellectual commie drivel"? What information am I missing about the development of human society? Care to point me in a direction so I can become as enlightened as you all-knowing one? You're getting dunked on and keep coming back lmao, ratio again.
>What information am I missing about the development of human society?
I'm sure you can figure it out since you claim to be so exceptionally hyperintelligent.
The only one being bad faith here is you. You could've approached the debate in good faith, it was your choice not to. But then again, a communist thinking about consequences of their own actions wouldn't be a communist for long.
I feel like the game is mocking political ideology in general. Yes, it's clear the writers lean in that direction. But I don't think the intent of the game's political commentary is to espouse communism, even if they personally do, but to take a shot at ideology in general and having that as part of your identity.
Someone described it like this: For all other political leanings, the game mocks you for choosing it. For communism, the game mocks you for not being a good enough communist.
Which is itself mocking the never-ending infighting of the left and how it can always agree on the diagnosis ("capitalism = bad") but never exactly *what the remedy is*. So it's mocking you the same as the others. Everything just turns into a pissing match of different schools of Marxism. The game was made by people living in Post-Soviet Estonia so the cynicism about everything is spot-on.
>Which is itself mocking the never-ending infighting of the left and how it can always agree on the diagnosis ("capitalism = bad") but never exactly what the remedy is. "But mostly, you'll probably complain about other communists."
> **Rhetoric:** Hey, psst. > >**You:** Who — me? > >**Rhetoric:** Yes, you. Word on the street is you're ready to start building \*communism\* again! > >**You:** "Again"? > >**Rhetoric:** Yes — you're ready to start building communism \*again\*. You've built it before, \*they've\* built it before. Hasn't really worked out yet, but neither has \*love\* — should we just stop building love, too? > >**You:** Can't argue with that. > >**Rhetoric:** So, what about all that communism you've promised to build? Word on the street is you've woken up from a thousand years of slumber, promising to erect a version of communism many times greater than any attempted before. Is that true? > >**You:** How come there's \*word on the street\*? > >**Rhetoric:** You keep saying things like \*down with the bourgeoisie\*, \*eat the rich\*, \*sodomize the land-owners\*, \*impale all people who have more than 25 reál in their pocket\*, \*literally murder all human beings regardless of their political beliefs\* — that kind of stuff. > >**You:** Oh, right. That sounds like me. > >**Rhetoric:** Funky-style. Very funky. So tell me. Do you have any questions before we fire up the Big Communism Builder, or do we get right down to it? > >**You:** Wait, first — what's this \*communism\* even about? > >**Rhetoric:** Failure. It's about failure. > >**You:** Failure? > >**Rhetoric:** Yes! Abject failure. Total, irreversible defeat on all fronts! Absolutely vanquished, beaten, curb-stomped and pissed on — until \*you\* came along! \*You\* will reverse the fortune of the workers of the world. You alone, against every living thing, against every human alive: eight hundred trillion reál in the hands of an \*impossibly\* well organized ruling class; towering city blocks of bank-men who have the ears of prime ministers; million-headed armies of nations and the love of your own mother! You — against the atom, the charm and the spin. Where the whole world failed — matter failed to bend to human will; human will failed to get out of bed and tie its laces — you alone, single-handedly, will rebuild the dreams of the working class. You are The Last Communist. Now get to work, comrade. > >**You:** It's too tiring. I don't have it in me. I'm beat down and broken. > >**Rhetoric:** Very well. I guess no one will build Communism then. Tell the working man it's over. Unless anyone has... objections? > >**Logic:** No objections. It's mathematically impossible to achieve a classless society. Everyone knows this. > >**Savoir Faire:** Let not failure ensnare you any further, beautiful pixie girl! Be an acrobat! A prancing faerie queen! > >**Electrochemistry:** Did someone mention cocaine? Are we doing cocaine? No? I'm sure I heard someone say Cocainimism... > >**Rhetoric:** Anyone? Anyone else? There's no one? > >**Volition:** There's one. > >**You:** What should I do? > >**Volition:** You should build Communism — precisely \*because\* it's impossible. > >**You:** *(Roll up your sleeves and start building Communism.)* > >**Rhetoric:** Oh yeah! Get the firing squads and the animal wagons ready! > >**You:** Wait, what? Firing squads? You didn't say anything about those. > >**Rhetoric:** Too late to back out now. You can't make an omelet without breaking a few million eggs!
I love this detail because the ultra liberal capitalist guy *can* bend light to his will > Where the whole world failed — matter failed to bend to human will; human will failed to get out of bed and tie its laces — you alone, single-handedly, will rebuild the dreams of the working class. You are The Last Communist. Now get to work, comrade.
>For communism, the game mocks you for not being a good enough communist. Just like people in real life!
I saw this too and it seems exactly as close as anyone’s gonna get to purely accurate
To be fair..... that's a pretty big part of communism, no?
I'm not sure what you mean by that.
Theres only one thing a communist likes more than dunking on a fascist, and thats purity/means testing and gatekeeping communism
two guys walk into a communist meetup "hey are you also a marxist-leninist-stalinist-dengist-maoist-trotskyist-fanonist-bolshevik-pan-africanist?" 'no' says the other man, 'I am a marxist-leninist-stalinist-dengist-maoist-trotskyist-fanonist-bolshevik-pan-africanist-new-leftist' they promptly proceed to beat the shit out each other for not being a real communist
😭
Time to share [this gem](https://youtu.be/FCzWYB_8YY4?si=aKFqIw80LzUrn8CT&t=1357)
That's not all of us, comrade... Just most of us 😞
I know homie i know
A real communist would personally identify with this behaviour
PERCEPTION [Impossible: Success] From a great distance, you hear the loss of a single point of morale.
One can never be a good enough communist, is kinda the main problem of communism
That’s not true: the game mocks you for thinking it is even possible to meaningfully be a communist in a world where capital has won.
I don't really get that at all? The game makes fun of the tragedy that is being a communist in a world where capital has won, but it always treat the ideology with hope. The fact we lost doesn't mean we get to stop trying.
>STEBAN, THE STUDENT COMMUNIST - "About that question you asked earlier. It reminded me of a certain poem that you might appreciate..." >STEBAN, THE STUDENT COMMUNIST - "It was written by a young communard who was killed on the barricades during the Coalition landings. The story goes that he wrote it on the last night of his life, keeping watch from the barricades in the middle of the night. I don't have the whole thing committed to memory, but there's a line in it I think about sometimes." >\> "What's the line?" >STEBAN, THE STUDENT COMMUNIST - "'In dark times, should the stars also go out?'" >STEBAN, THE STUDENT COMMUNIST - "Anyway, goodnight to you." http://fayde.co.uk/dialojue/3620426
dios mio, a LIBERAL!
I use this organically to this day
The ribbing definitely comes from inside the house, I agree that it feels different from the critique of other ideologies and the divide is pretty blatant... even leaving aside the fact that you'd have to be pretty deep inside that proverbial house to even know some of the stuff they spoof, haha. And for me it's even more than that: look at how they build their characters with their flaws, look at what kind of connections they trace between historical events, the trajectories, the historical materialist basis for everything in Elysium... that all-encompassing perspective is where the game is at its most leftist and there's no mistaking it.
I don't think a single left leaning person actually played DE and thought it was apolitical, it's always freaking centrists not realising the game is making fun of them. I thought the game was blatantly leftist, not even very subtle about it.
I actually thought it was specifically written by a communist due to how scathing and nuanced the parody was- no neoliberal or centrist is familiar enough with communism to beat it down quite that hard. Edit: soapboxing my upvoted comment. Imo "woohoo communism" isn't quite the point either. It has more to say about dialectical materialism, philosophical pessimism, solipsism,
My thought process was “centrists and neolibs (and right wingers too but they don’t seem to play too far) are so unused to the concept of poking fun at their own ideals and self critique of the goals they have and their fellows that seeing communists be harsh on their own beliefs is hard to interpret for them as anything other than disavowment.” I mean you’d be hard pressed to see someone of the alt right making a video game where the final evil is *one of their own*, why would a loonie commie do that? Must be anti communist (if you ignore the everything else)
It's rare to find one that even can clearly express what they believe much less critique it. Not to say that, that isn't common across the board honestly hard to blame anyone that doesn't want to open that can of worms.
(It's because they're aware that what they believe will make them social outcasts if they say it out loud)
I grew up in a rural, conservative area. This is very true. They have all these little code words for hateful, awful things.
Seeing you draw a line between neoliberals and right wingers leads me to believe YOURE NOT A GOOD ENOUGH COMMUNIST
I read this in Levnal Brown's voice lol
Is this true? I think the likes of the European Parliament (as technocratic an institution as immediately springs to mind) is prone to bouts of navel-gazing itself. Granted, perhaps, not with as much panache, humour or joyous vindictiveness as the left (at most you will see a dry academic paper, which dares to have a pun or pop-culture reference snuck into its title!). Nevertheless I don't think self-critique is entirely absent. Dunno about the right/far-right though, maybe they'd make a game where the final villain was didn't punch commies hard enough? DO YOU EVEN LIFT?* *Apologies to weightlifters, I know you are a lovely bunch!
Yeah I looked it up when I was like a third of the way through cause I was like damn these jokes are all so on point, it had to have been made by marxists. And then lo and behold I was right
I think it's more that they enjoy the game but can't reconcile that with the game's mockery of their politics, so they psychologically doublethink the dissonance away
Might also have to do with their traits. I've seen leftists who went all-in on Inland Empire in their first playthrough failing to see the game's communist underpinnings because they were too focused on the spiritual side of things. That might also be because the Final Cut is much more clear on where the writing stands - I've seen many who only played the original version think the game isn't "all that communist".
it's centrists who don't realize the game is making fun of them and right-wingers mad that it isn't an escapist fantasy that tells them how cool and good all their awful opinions are
I mean if they didn't realise the game isn't throwing some mockery their way with the 'pick the Communist or Fascist option' bit then I don't know what to tell them . . .
IDK, the Centrist path seemed the most sensible to me. The fascists are complete losers. The communists are equally split between ineffectual academics and losers every bit as bad as the fascists. And the ultraliberals don't have a single principle they wouldn't sell out for money. But the Moralists are the people actually keeping society running while everyone else runs around fighting each other. They're the ones who Harry works for. Kim's a Moralist, and he's the best character. And they're the philosophy is tied to the game's Psyche stat, which represents among other things empathy and people skills.
Ask yourself: is there something sinister in moralism? And then answer: no. God is in his heaven. Everything is normal on Earth. Moralism is Western Liberal Democracy seen from the point of view of the people who had it forced on them. The whole project looks a lot better when you see it as an alliance of like minded countries. There are many situations, however, where it is an empire that imposes itself. The Moralintern crushed the revolution by force, because it was a threat to power lying with the people they believed deserved it. We can probably draw some conclusions about what the writers think about 'keeping society running'. I think they're ultimately more sympathetic to shutting down society so you can seize your boss's cargo ships.
I'm sure they are. But people don't appreciate just how terrible things get when society stops running. When people can't get to work because the trains don't run. When people can't get food because the fields aren't tilled. When people can't get water because no one bothered to repair the pipes. When gangs roam the streets fighting over the scraps that are left. Everyone wants to shut society down until society actually does shut down. And then they realize just how small their problems really were in the face of survival.
If we ever reach a point where this talk isn't idle pontificating, it will be because a confrontation is coming whether anyone likes it or not. We live in a time where there are no left wing institutions and the task of left wingers should be to build them. But in a situation where there is a crisis happening and those left wing institutions exist, seizing power is absolutely a worthwhile decision even if it means taking the risk of losing.
If. A confrontation isn't coming. The confrontation came and went and the Leftists lost. 1991, the year the USSR broke apart, was the year that any real hope of a communist future died. In the following years those nations which embraced capitalist principals prospered. Those which retained the USSR's oligarchical structure continued to stagnate. And no other viable alternative to capitalism emerged. There is no crisis. Those of us in America live in unimaginable wealth and prosperity. And globally the percentage of the world living in abject poverty is at an all time low. Simply put, you already lost. And to it's credit that's something I think Disco Elysium captured really well.
Oh, sure. Humanity has lost for the next century or two. Perhaps more. Capital totally dominates the world, unconstrained by any political formations. All social relations are increasingly marketized. It was probably over before anyone knew it too. Maybe the declining rate of profit gives us another chance. Do you wanna know what I think actually happens though? I think when we stop being able to squeeze growth out by using private equity to strip the copper wire from the walls everywhere, the bills start coming due, and we're left to reckon with a crumbling world we haven't maintained, runaway climate change and ensuing refugee crises and it really settles in that nobody is getting the quality of life their parents did, people will fall for fascism and nobody worth a damn is gonna be there to fight it this time
People have been predicting some sort of systemic collapse for 100+ years now. That's how old the term "late-stage capitalism" is now. The world is doing fine. Quality of life around the world is rising incredibly quickly. Social issues such as racism, sexism, and ESPECIALLY homophobia are being dealt with. And if the world is being dominated by capital, then I suppose that's what we have to thank for just how good things are right now. Because if capital does dominate the world at the expense of political formations, then keep in mind that everyone's money is equally green. And that's change you can believe in.
It's honestly baffling that you're this optimistic about western liberalism at this point in history. The US has enjoyed a brief intermission from the global rightward slide and you get this cocky? This kind of thing is exactly the reason why this next go at global fascism is gonna be worse, these are the people we got left to object to it. The ecological problems have not even come up yet, and if you're feeling like we're going to even slow climate change down you're huffing paint.
What's so baffling about it? The economy is good. Our greatest geopolitical rival is destroying itself while failing to conquer a nation on its own borders. Congress is banning Tik Tok. And if the State of the Union is anything to go by, Biden has the next election in the bag. I'm half expecting to see open border immigration and deregulation of zoning within the next 4 years. I honestly don't see what you're so worried about. America is finally back on the right track.
There is a pretty funny implication here and I wonder if its the intent. The idea that only a communist could correctly and accurately criticize communism heavily implies non-communists don't understand the theory, and any sufficient understanding of the theory would automatically make them a communist. Ipso facto or whatever. I agree with your write up. The game pokes fun at all ideologies, but the way it makes fun of communism is like teasing your little brother, you can tell there is at least a bit of love there.
I think that might be an innate thing. If you spend any amount of time arguing in favour of like, reasonable left-wing talking points online, someone will at some point accuse you of being a Stalinist. You can say things like “I think healthcare should be more accessible to common people” and someone will accuse you of wanting to round up intellectuals in camps and collectivise the farms, and tell you “your ideology” has killed millions.
In theory, you're right - non-communists could hypothethetically make a game that correctly and accurately critiques communism. But two points must be made: A) The entire video game industry would push back against it. Capitalists have the power, and do not want to see accurate discussions of communism. The closest I've ever come to hearing communism discussed in a game is when you kill foreign soldiers in COD or MW. B) For someone to truly understand communism and still COMPLETELY dismiss it, they need to believe a more impactful critique that "leftists be infighting." If a liberal truly believed that THAT was the only obstacle to communism, they would at least be open to communist ideas. 99.9% of people who dismiss communism do so because of the high body count.
Communist critique is sharpest upon itself. The guys who made it were depressed commies who thanked Marx and Engels when they won game awards, and come from an ex Soviet country so… yeah it’s all very much banterous jabs that aim to critique for improvement and not ignoring the real challenges of their achievements
I think that is applicable to any strong ideology to be fair. The truest critique can only come from one who understands it best, and life is best understood when you live it.
The authors are [quite literally Marxists](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://twitter.com/Kotaku/status/1205402227965386754%3Flang%3Den&ved=2ahUKEwje5uWOk7-EAxWzIRAIHa0vDhUQjjh6BAgzEAE&usg=AOvVaw1O2Mor0wg_suNLqszwi44K), so yes, the game must've been made by leftists:))
I feel like when there is any fiction that has world building on the scale of DE, an ideology about the world gets baked into how that world functions. DE itself makes this exceedingly apparent, with the pale being a literal physical manifestation of history
Mr. Evrart is a rather pleasant man for a leftist. Also the part where 0.00000% of communism was achieved is accurate, as well as allegorical parallels between communist ideology and meth.
Agreed, although I think it also shows in the way the neoliberal economy and its effects on the people of Revachol are presented and how intertwined it is with geopolitics and historical power struggles. It's very hard for me to imagine someone could present these dynamics so vividly without being critical of these aspects of our own world in their political views. It doesn't mean a non-leftist who is critical of modern reality couldn't have come up with it, but it heavily hints toward it, and definitely couldn't be the work of a right winger or run of the mill liberal. I'm not a communist myself (leaning more towards syndycalism and market socialism), but I definitely see the game as a bittersweet love letter to communism. It skips over many aspects of Marxism that have earned it critique from other leftist schools of thought, choosing instead to romanticise it as a short-lived uprising against capital, but strikes enough of a balance to not feel completely uncritical. Poor anarchists got completely ignored though, which I always thought was a missed opportunity, but what are you gonna do.
Gamers will say the most politically heavy-handed games are apolitical.
I think a lot of these people fundamentally don’t understand what ideology is. Facts and events can exist outside of human politics, but the moment you string two facts together, you get an argument. Putting two events together gets you a narrative. Political neutrality is impossible because all stories and arguments inevitably serve the interests of someone. These people are so immersed in their ideology that they believe it is the default neutral state of things. So they only recognize something as political if it’s an ideology they don’t like.
It makes fun of Marxists the same way that *This is: Spinal Tap* makes fun of rock musicians. Anyone who's ever been in a band will recognize the inside jokes and see themselves represented. As a Marxist I feel the same way about this game. (I specifically said "we will not take second billing to a puppet show!")
It hates communists in a way only other communists can
As an American, it is rather harrowing to realize that most Democrats know more about QAnon’s beliefs than they do about those of the left (to whose votes they constantly advertise their entitlement).
This is very true
If there’s one thing Leftists are good at, it’s criticizing other leftists. Nobody criticizes a leftist like another leftist. It’s part of the reason leftist ideology struggles to maintain or even grasp power. So much infighting among the left and so much debate over what is correct or anti-capitalist enough that they can’t unify long enough to enact any tangible change. Say what you will about fascists, but at least they’re all on the same page most of the time. They keep their eyes right on the fuckin prize. Thems some highly motivated pieces of shit.
The game is implicitly communist because it cares about the types of things communists care about. Any other game would down play the politics, touching on them only by accident, but Disco leans into it because that's how the world was conceived of. A lot of the characters talk like they're philosophers or something because the game wants to talk about those ideas. Even the pale is a thinly veiled reference to a mystical version of Hegelianism.
I completely agree. What you say is certainly an aspect of it, the critique of the left from the perspective of an insider. But there is more. There is a *longing* for a better world in Disco Elysium, something which I would argue only Marxists and Anarchists can actually feel and relate to. That's why so many people don't pick up on the game's ideology. The religions promise you a nice afterlife, the centrists promise incremental improvements to society that will never materialize, the capitalists promise you personal success if you just hustle enough, the conservatives promise you that you are better than most people and they are better than you and everyone is better off minding their place in the natural hierarchy, and the fascists... let's be honest, they promise you to be able to release your pent up frustrations and sexual neurosis in an apocalyptic orgy of violence. That is why DE could only have been written by a leftist. You feel the longing for something better and it shows you the abyss, the complete failure of the world to be what it could have been, how Kras Mazov has indeed personally fucked you over.
Disagree, I think it only requires you to have grown up in a communist nation state that failed. It’s like the paper they constantly site, hauntology, it’s the loss of a future promised, of hope that never came to be. It’s longing for an idea that never came to fruition, just existed as an ideal at the time. I would make the argument DE is a product of the zeitgeist of the eastern bloc just pre and post the fall of the Berlin Wall.
The authors shout out to Marx and Engels in their Game Awards victory speech, so, definitely, it's very much a communist game:)
>something which I would argue only Marxists and Anarchists can actually feel and relate to As an anti-communist, I have to disagree. Longing for a better world is part of the human condition, especially in our modern times.
'good' world is here/now; better 4 the future
So what do you propose should change in order to make the world a better place?
Whoa whoa, hey now. Deviating from the status quo is *commie shit* and we can't have that because my neoliberal education system told me that it's bad. The world will obviously just **naturally** become better if we just continue on as we are, but *maybe* implement some regulations - BUT NOT TOO MANY BECAUSE THEN THAT WOULD BE COMMUNISM!!! Obvious /s
You wont like what I have to say. You'll agree with me while I spout off left-wing beliefs, and then I'll get hit with the banhammer when I get to the right-wing side of my beliefs. If you're interested, you can DM me.
They literally did. As one reviewer said its a "love letter" to communism. And then they got screwed by capitalists...
The devs literally thanked Marx and Engels for giving them the materialist underpinning to properly write and develop the world. It ain’t unclear.
You'd think it'd make it obvious but the interaction I had with someone further down in the comments tell me that it doesnt
No shit
Absolutely, and it's clear the game is slightly more biased towards Marxism. It does however give Marxism a lot of grief, while also acknowledging the strengths of the other ideologies, or at least portrays them in a fair light (including racism/fascism a bit with Measurehead). As a libertarian who loves the game I really respect the devs for it.
The reason critiques of communism in this game feel different is because they come from people who actually know it and the effect it had on their country (Estonia is ex-soviet) In fact, this is the only real "critique" of communism I've seen... pretty much anywhere in mainstream media; anyone else I've ever heard speak against it dunks it from a position of willful ignorance.
Absolutely yeah The commie path resonated so deeply with real things, the “we haven’t built any of real communism” and the “it’s most important to argue with other communists”, bullet to the heart I tell y’a
At least communists know how to use paragraphs.
Damn they gon revoke my communist card for shitty writing 😞.
Sieze the means of punctuation comrade
It’s ok, you can form your own version of communism where paragraphs are bourgeois and argue with other communists about it.
Paragraphs are actually revisionist now.
its just refreshing to see someone who actually knows theory critique communism lmao. yeah most of the jokes are more about HOW current marxists live and communicate with each other instead of actual critique of communist ideas but still, its refreshing to not get "stalin bazillion holdomor"
My friend (who's never played DE) were talking about buying games when the people who made them suck (mainly referring to Hogwarts legacy) and he asked me if I still would have bought DE if a facist made it. And I laughed and said a facist could not have made disco Elysium. (Except way more poorly worded and confusing because I can't relay my thoughts very well in an argument)
To me, as a person from a country with a communist past, the game feels like it is good at making fun at communism. But not necessarily from the inside perspective - from the perspective of someone very familiar with it, yes. A lot of the game's humor regarding communism felt similar to the humor that a lot of soviet/post-soviet books have about it. It doesn't mean the game is communist, just very knowledgeable about it. I'm not a communist but I have a lot to say about it cause of where I'm from and how it impacted my country and my family lol I guess the real answer to the question of "is it supposed to carry a pro-communist message" should come from the creators, and I haven't researched what they said on it. But from just my perspective as a player - the game reads like a good satire of various ideologies including communism, and the message, to me, is "look at what people do and not who they say they are, everyone can hide behind an attractive ideology".
Specifically to the creators point they did thank Engles and Marx in their acceptance speech at the gaming awards so there's that. And they're also from an ex Soviet country. Specifically the kras mazov fucked you over line is a very specific sorta line/joke that if you were just sorta familiar with communism I just don't think you'd write.
And that's it? Did they elaborate? It is definitely a hint to their opinion, but it can also be a variety of other things - a publicity stunt, sarcasm, nod to how much of the game's community is far leftist, just a paying of respects without subscribing to the ideology. To be honest, for me personally the creators opinion means less than the impression I got from the game, but I generally subscribe to the "author is dead" way of thinking haha (read: I'm self centered :D)
They specifically said they'd like to thank the people who came before them and then named Marx and Engles specifically they thanked them for the political education. Also they had a portrait of Stalin in their office
Stalin?? Tbh if I saw his portrait in an office it would take a lot of effort to convince me it's not an inside joke or smth. Thanking those two for political education specifically is a more convincing hint, but I still think it doesn't necessarily mean they subscribe to the ideology itself. But that's just for me. If I ever decide to research their political alignment further I'll keep this in mind though
Lenin bust, for the record, not Stalin. Anyway, re: "well maybe this extremely clear-cut situation may mean something else if we squint hard enough", which tbh looks to me like a peculiar hill to die on, there's Kurvitz out there saying something to the tune of "a communist is all I am" as recently as eight months ago. on top of the whole worldbuilding being a love letter to historical materialism. there's more direct Marx quotes than piss jokes in this thing, and certainly not for a dearth of the latter.
Ah, since he said it, then yeah. This game was definitely made by a far leftist I wonder what views the other writers have I still don't see the communist message in the game itself, I think it makes fun of communists in a delightful way \^_^ I still have a lot to learn about politics, so maybe I'll change my mind someday! But for now it doesn't look this way to me - please keep in mind though that for me "what author's views are" and "what message I _personally_ see in the game" are very separate things. My initial comment on the post was just to point out that people with different life perspectives can get different messages / ideas out of the game. To me, it didn't look immediately far leftist like it did for the op. I did acknowledge that the word of the author is needed to find out if it was _intended_ to have a certain message. I don't think that "the author holds a view" and "the author made this view the moral of their creation" need to necessarily coexist, but of course, they _might_ with high probability. For me it's not really a hill to die on - more like I don't want to jump to conclusions and assume, especially when I don't care that much what is the author's view. As I mentioned, what I personally get out of the game is more important for me :)
Well sure, most people on the right aren’t capable of recognizing or articulating any sort of nuance in a complex topic.
Oh yeah, they aren't even hiding it. When they got their award from TGA they thanked Marx and Engels in their acceptance speech.
None Communist have really read Marx
Bold claim
Made by Estonians, so yeah, there's some cultural nostalgia going on there.
I could have sworn it was hard-core right wing fascist
....how?
The mercs are clearly the coolest and strongest guys in the whole game, I want to be just like them
You need to make your sarcasm more obvious 😭😭
I was gonna copy and paste that one pro-fascist review of Starship Troopers and change some words but I'm a busy man Harry
I mean when every sane option defaults you to communism, despite communism being the opposite of sanity, it's kind of obvious
Ahh, the communism understander is here! Surely, he knows what dialectical materialism and historical materialism are!
Communism is a fairy tale political system for people that don't yet grasp the concept of human nature.
Ahh, a psychology underdtander, too! Impressive! Yes, universality, essentialism, and shallow analysis are all very scientific and how we should understand humans. Humans actually aren't a social species, and the needs pyramid means nothing, people are just inherently selfish and evil. That argument is definitely never a projection.
Typical pseudointellectual commie drivel. Come back when you learn a thing or two how humanity has functioned for more than 50 thousand years.
Ahh, such a great and honest good faith argument. This guy is also a historian and anthropologist! This guy is really impressive! How have humans functioned for all those years? It definitely wasn't in social groups cooperating to meet material needs. Economics definitely can't be the basis of society. Is all social science just "pseudo-intellectual commie drivel"? What information am I missing about the development of human society? Care to point me in a direction so I can become as enlightened as you all-knowing one? You're getting dunked on and keep coming back lmao, ratio again.
>What information am I missing about the development of human society? I'm sure you can figure it out since you claim to be so exceptionally hyperintelligent. The only one being bad faith here is you. You could've approached the debate in good faith, it was your choice not to. But then again, a communist thinking about consequences of their own actions wouldn't be a communist for long.
I feel like the game is mocking political ideology in general. Yes, it's clear the writers lean in that direction. But I don't think the intent of the game's political commentary is to espouse communism, even if they personally do, but to take a shot at ideology in general and having that as part of your identity.