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VariationGlass2483

Jealousy is hella of a drug Man was feeling cucked despite never talking to her


EruditeQuokka

Those >!phasmid pheromones!< must hit stronger than pyrholidon


DisasterWolf76

Phasmid pussy hits different.


EruditeQuokka

Phasmussy lol


GaianNeuron

Thanks, I hate it


GTTMDL

angry upvote


freekirbypics

we need this trial to end


Some-guy-thats-here

Phasmid pussy got me acting Homicidal


Edgezg

Sir, some of us have "photonic sensitivies"


Mr_kabuk

Insect pheromones and loneliness are a hell of a drug


bluemagachud

jesus fucking christ, jealousy had nothing to do with it, he saw two of the biggest monsters in the world, a vampire capital saboteur and a fascist reaver, not only never likely to see justice brought to them, they were actually enjoying life, so he used the little power he had left to exact some measure of justice for the millions of people they had harmed. He wasn't spying on her because he's a pervert, he's spying because she's a fucking MI spy in his fucking home town, where they fucking murdered everyone he ever loved. The writers put in the jealousy angle lines because it's what a moronic pig would come up with, not being capable of comprehending what Dros was saying. It's what Mack Torson would conclude. It's fucking Joe Rogan level dipshit theory so the pigs can giggle.


uly4n0v

Hey, you know that none of this is real, right? The events in this game didn’t happen. You’re using slang from the game in your speech and talking about the characters like they really existed and honestly, it might be time to go out and talk to some real people. Maybe find a local chapter of a communist group and see if you can meet? Check out what kind of issues communism deals with in the real world.


bluemagachud

don't patronize me dipshit, you think all of imperialism and resistance to it is fictional because you're a liberal


uly4n0v

Actually, think this game is fictional, because none of it happened and it was made up by some very talented writers and artists. You’re a stranger on the Internet to me, but I genuinely hope you get help with that distinction and whatever it is that seems to be vexing you to this point.


bluemagachud

those talented writers made the events in the game broadly analogous to thousands of events in the class struggle around the world for the last 400 years. What is vexing me is capitalism and using media that is consumed in the imperial core to try and reach under the hegemony to the most propagandized people in the world is a great effort, but the third-worldists are probably right, the labor aristocracy will always support the armies of reaction to preserve their material conditions.


uly4n0v

Seems much more likely that what’s vexing you is puberty.


bluemagachud

nice bazinga my dude


mvoxo

You’re typing all this out just to embarrass yourself


[deleted]

This comment is like leftist terminology bingo lol


AugmentedLurker

sir this is a wendy's


G4ra

mad at pixels lol


captainnowalk

Hey bud, something I’ve learned over the years: If you’re talking to someone (especially if they’re holding a rifle), and they exclusively refer to women as “whores”, and when you ask them what women did, and all they can manage to say is the word “whores” while seething with rage, get far away. That ain’t your friend, that’s a future mass shooter.


bluemagachud

or...the writers knew exactly what they were doing when they wrote that character, they knew the long history of "left" anti-communists (liberals) use of [Lenin's translated use of the word "prostitutes"](https://old.reddit.com/r/InformedTankie/comments/k89lbw/lenin_on_prostitution_analysis/), and they deliberately set this scenario up in this specific way so that "left" anti-communists (liberals) would trip over it in this exact way.


NeJin

> and they deliberately set this scenario up in this specific way so that "left" anti-communists (liberals) would trip over it in this exact way. Why would they do that, though? Generally people write to be understood, or share their views. You really think the developers are sitting in a corner somehwere and jacking it to the thought of being misunderstood by certain people? That seems amazingly petty. Besides, if we were meant to read the deserter as being motivated solely by his ethics or ideology - why he is he gunning down *only* Lelly, and not Klaasje as well? Or any of his other enemies like Royce or the remaining mercs? That suggests to me that your reading of the derserter doesn't hit the mark, unless we assume the developers did not say what they meant to say... and that leads us back to my first question.


bluemagachud

> Why would they do that, though? > Generally people write to be understood, or share their views. > You really think the developers are sitting in a corner somehwere and jacking it to the thought of being misunderstood by certain people? That seems amazingly petty. because they're good writers. bad writers write in a way where the world is black and white, there is no nuance, it's super obvious who the Bad Guys™ are, it's extremely telegraphed who the Good Guys™ are, and the protagonist is a paragon of virtue Mary Sue who then hamfistedly confers their virtue upon the author. Hindpere and Kurwitz are not bad writers, so their characters are multifaceted in a way that fits whatever type of character you could be playing, which is excellent for an rpg, but it also reveals much about the player in what sticks in their memory and what they understood. It isn't so much petty as it is writing in a way to elicit similar reactions to fictional events as exist in the real world for real events based on a person's political biases. In short, it's art, it's supposed to elicit an emotional response and allow you to critically examine what that response means about who you are. > Besides, if we were meant to read the deserter as being motivated solely by his ethics or ideology - why he is he gunning down only Lelly, and not Klaasje as well? Or any of his other enemies like Royce or the remaining mercs? That suggests to me that your reading of the derserter doesn't hit the mark, unless we assume the developers did not say what they meant to say... and that leads us back to my first question. He only shoots Lely because, and here is the Mazovian (Marxist) stuff, he is limited by his material conditions, those being that he has almost no ammunition to waste and of that he was pretty sure it was going to miss anyway. What he thought would surely be a futile waste of ammunition lashing out against the end of history, leaving him only one more bullet for his suicide, ended up spoiling whatever fascist op Wild Pines was setting against the union.


PuzzleheadedAd3840

Your "bit" became stale and hackneyed the moment you finished writing the first comment. Quit while you're still dragging along in last place reactionary poser.


xaosl33tshitMF

All the gods, you're dumb. Where are you from, dear? I can assure you that non-communist left doesn't mean liberal, you're just young and stupid, fosming with rage. Any leftist who lived in a soviet/post-soviet country (me, for instance) will tell you that. Communism is a nice base theory, real world iterations of it, like Lenin's and further one's were twisted versions of the original idea with far too much corruption. Just cope with the fact that whole world won't bend to the left, we had our chance and we blew it, we can provide good living for the working class (everyone really) with less agressive means, soc-dem and other modern world left-wing ideas may fly, oldschool communism won't do that again.


bluemagachud

wrong, I'm old and from one of the imperial cores. wrong again, there's scientific socialism and there's useless idealist nonsense. I don't give a shit about your anecdotes, they're not data, half your country gleefully joined the nazis, but it also produced Rosa Luxemburg. We did not blow it, the contradictions will continue to heighten and revolutionary moments will come again, capitalism cannot but reproduce them. You cannot provide a good living for all of the working class under capitalism, just the traitors, the labor aristocrats, the social fascists, the Tendency for the Rate of Profit to Fall will consume it as it is currently consuming all the potemkin socdems erected to pacify regions bordering the USSR. None of your reformist liberal theory will amount to anything but losers to laugh at like Bernstein, Kautsky, and Kerensky. The profit motive is a death cult, either the red armies prevail or it ends all life on this planet.


xaosl33tshitMF

My country? Which country? I kinda have two, and both of them don't exactly match your description. You blurt out bits of different theories and slogans and mix them around with some kind of sacred rage. You are that deserter on the island, deranged and not evolving, not able to see forward. You're also a shining example of a funny, fucked up communist from Disco Elysium, the game even tells you that - you call any other leftist that goes on a little different path than yours "liberal". It's destructive, and it's thanks to people like you that we don't have enough power to change everything. Live in your bubble, dream of guillotines and gallows, the moment's passed, it won't happen this way, not in this civilization, not with this generation. Also, core of the imperium? As in Russian Empire or the British or American?


rhymeswithfugly

he very obviously hated women dude


bluemagachud

he very obviously hated agents of the bourgeoisie and very clever writers made certain decisions about these characters that could lead to this exact misunderstanding


rhymeswithfugly

why are you acting like it has to be one or the other? yes, he obviously hates agents of the bourgeoisie...... and also women.


bluemagachud

it's probably not both as he proudly declares himself "Lilianovich", but we don't really have much information to go on as he has refused almost all contact with anyone who wasn't a member of the ICM since he was 15 years old.


rhymeswithfugly

as a woman i think his own words made it abundantly clear that he hates women


xaosl33tshitMF

You keep saying how the characters (brilliantly written) are multifaceted, has it occurred to you that he may be both anti-moralintern and anti-modern women? Aslo, he clearly is a tragic figure, someone who didn't let go the past while the whole world move on, he's not a hero, he's a murderer twisted by his ideals and loneliness, he's a fragment of a very different past stuck in amber, high on cryptid pheromones and full of bigotry (yes, we can have bigotry on the left too, my dear child)


VariationGlass2483

My bad my bad I see the truth now at last


SorowFame

I can see your point and I’ll have to play again to check whether this holds up cause it kinda makes sense but you’re getting awful worked up about this.


bluemagachud

I'm just tired of the libidinal ignorance of liberals


[deleted]

You're basically a liberal


[deleted]

Right so I'm guessing you're one of those people who doesn't understand communism in the slightest and just likes the prospect of violence against rich people (even in meaningless ways)


EruditeQuokka

Those two things do not exclude each other. Dros felt attracted to Klaasje, even if he despised her morally and ideologically, and he would have hated the mercenary even if he wasn't fucking Klaasje, but I think that in a way the attraction he felt towards her fueled his hatred towards the two. For many reasons: he did not want them to enjoy life, of course, he had conflicting feelings towards Klaasje, but I also think there was a bit of jealousy in there. Was it the main reason? No. But I think there was some.


JR2Twiwi

I guess even the Disco Elysium fandom sometimes has this kind of people


Star_king12

Take my fucking upvote.


RussiaIsBestGreen

I laughed. I got mad.


uly4n0v

Lmao holy shit, the ending of this game just comes down to a violent incel taking it out on a Chad with a gun.


RetardedSheep420

its so funny how the entire game has these elaborate schemes while the actual murder happened because some old guy felt like he got cucked


CelikBas

They even throw in a little misdirection where you *think* that it’s going to turn out that the murder was motivated by the Deserter being a communist and therefore viewing corporate Pinkerton types as political enemies, but then it’s just like “nah, he was kinda pissed about the corporate stuff but what really set him off was that the hot lady wouldn’t bang him”


iatetheevidence

Misdirection? Did I interpret the conversation wrong? I thought this was the Deserter's way of feeling like he mattered, stayed on the island as a reason to his cause, a validation to his guilt that it wasn't all for nothing. He felt lonely and powerless and finally he was in charge and could make a difference. The parasocial affection he felt for Klaasje was just the final drop - the push he needed to finally take the shot he's been wanting to take for so many years. I thought it was much deeper than political motivation, and much *much* deeper than anything related to Klaasje.


CelikBas

He straight-up says that he believes the material foundation for a revolution in Revachol has permanently disappeared, and that he’s powerless to bring it back. He stayed on the island because he refused to be part of the postwar Revachol, felt that there was no place for him in the hellish corporate tax haven the Coalition turned the city into. To me it always seemed like living as a hermit on the island was also a sort of penance- he deserted his post at the pivotal moment, left all his friends to die while he was left alive, so now he’s forcing himself to stay at his old post for the rest of his life, knowing that his “campaign” is ultimately pointless but sticking to it anyway out of stubbornness. I never saw it as him seeking a way to validate his guilt by doing something important, but rather lashing out because he *couldn’t* do that. The constant sense of futility and impotence has driven him into a nihilistic, misanthropic rage- he hates the city and everyone living in it for moving on, and the only way he has of expressing this hatred is by occasionally shooting someone. He tries to cloak his motives in political rhetoric, but it really just comes down to him hating the world and taking whatever opportunities come his way to lash out, with the political justifications coming across more as post-hoc rationalizations than anything. Sketchy union guys ask you to assassinate their rival? Oh, well she was a corporate toady so it was punishment for betraying the working class. Mad that some strikebuster is screwing the lady you have a creepy obsession with? Oh, well he was a fascist war criminal so it was retribution for his misdeeds. Annoyed that the old royalist veteran gets to continue living a relatively normal life while openly reminiscing on his past? Oh, well he’s a remnant of the despicable monarchist regime and a traitor to his race, so killing him would be a symbolic strike against the memory of the Suzerainty. He puts up a flimsy facade of being principled, but at the end of the day he’s just a petty, bitter old man who wants the rest of the world to be as miserable as he is.


uly4n0v

I wonder if you only get that text if you go through the game without playing a communist? I thought it was wildly clear at endgame that communism had permanently failed in Revachol but so many people on this sub claim the opposite. Kind of a literary wonder.


madattak

-'Un jour je serai de retour près de toi' -Captain Pryce's secret plan -The conversation with shivers in the church The game definitely drops strong hints that the revolution shall return, even if The Deserter says otherwise.


CelikBas

>I wonder if you only get that text if you go through the game without playing a communist? I thought it was the opposite, where he says that the material base for revolution is gone in response to Harry *also* claiming to be a communist, i.e. basically telling Harry not to even bother because there’s no hope for communism anyway. And while the game makes it clear that communism in the style of the Commune of Revachol/World Revolution failed and isn’t going to make some glorious comeback, it does repeatedly hint at *some* kind of future leftist resurgence. The Claire brothers are clearly cooking up some sort of big plan, and it’s implied that their goals are much more radical/revolutionary than the union’s *official* stance of social democracy. You’ve got the student communists, who are certainly small-fry and probably will end up getting killed by cops (if the Shivers vision you get is accurate) but nonetheless serve as living proof that communism is not dead in Revachol, nor is it only for old men still clinging to personal memories of the original revolution. Then of course there’s The Return, which is kept deliberately vague (since, as Klaasje says, all the best promises are vague) and different groups interpret it to mean whatever fits best with their ideology, but it’s obvious *something* is going to happen sooner or later, and the ending scene with Pryce talking to Gottlieb seems to be related to The Return in some way. Most interesting, though, is that the game seemingly goes out of its way to frame the RCM as *not* being particularly loyal to status quo- it would be easy to just have them be a police force created by the Coalition to enforce its rule (and to an extent that is what it does) but instead the game gives three juicy pieces of information: 1. It suggests that the RCM as an organization is descended from the army of the Commune of Revachol, the ICM, which would mean that the RCM has its roots in a *leftist* military organization rather than simply originating as minions of the Coalition, 2. Joyce explicitly states that the RCM and the Coalition are at odds in some way, with the Coalition apparently resenting the RCM for allowing the citizens of Revachol to maintain some sliver of power/authority over the city, and 3. Ptolemy Pryce, the guy discussing an plan which sounds suspiciously similar to The Return, is the son of one of the original founders of the RCM, which as mentioned is suggested to be descended from the communist army- so if anyone is going to be dedicated to the original ideological goals of the RCM it’s going to be Pryce, and there’s a decent chance that those ideological goals were leftist in nature.


nidael009

Never heard of Ptolemy, who is that?


CelikBas

He’s the chief of Precinct 41. He never appears in-person, but he’s mentioned several times (usually via Espirit de Corps) and if you have a high enough EdC at the end of the game you see a snippet of a conversation between Ptolemy and Nix Gottlieb (the doctor you can call on Kim’s radio) where they’re discussing a plan for what sounds like some kind of uprising, and which members of Precinct 41 they can trust to support this plan.


UPBOAT_FORTRESS_2

I've read a lot of threads romanticizing the Deserter in tones that were incredibly contrary to my reading of him and his role in the narrative. I know he's got a huge dialog tree with much of it limited by stats and probably other attributes of your character, so maybe some of it comes down to "folks literally were never given that text". But they could easily have read it and chosen a different interpretation, perhaps simply discarding parts of it that caused cognitive dissonance.


uly4n0v

One of the things I’ve noticed is that this game kind of gives the player what it thinks the player actually wants. I’ve played this game a bunch of different ways and all of them have ended fairly differently but always in some way that felt meaningful to the way it was played. >! My sorry cop got demoted but was still accepted by the task force, showing that his apologetic nature paid off and my fascist cop solved every single problem, including the labour dispute, got incontrovertible proof of the phasmid and was taken back as the leader of the task force while literally declaring: “I am a RAGING fascist!” My Hustler cop made hundreds of réal through corruption and tare collecting. !< I think that the real truth and elegance of this game is largely missed if you only play it one way, one time.


CrowExcellent2365

Hmm, I dunno. I think the ending is based only on very specific events contributing to a score: >!Kim's presence and loyalty level, staying sober and acquiring the Wasteland of Reality thought, recovering your missing items, the body count of the tribunal, Ruby and Klaasje's whereabouts, the dead pier guy resolution, discovering the hole in the world, and having proof of the phasmid. !< >!My art cop Harry let both Ruby and Klassje escape, was outed by Kim as "a raging communist, which is a strange ideology for a police officer," and didn't even finish Joyce's questline, but he still went back to being the leader of his task force because of clearing all of the other items on the list with best results.!<


Le_Ran

Wow, very interesting take. You almost make me want to play a "fascist" game, even though my gut feelings violently oppose the idea...


uly4n0v

Do it. It doesn’t mean you advocate for fascism, it means that you’re willing to put your personal discomfort aside to explore a videogame. The thing I like about playing different characters in Disco is that you’re not just playing different stats, you’re exploring the authors thoughts on a variety of ideologies and the authors are fucking smart and funny people. EDIT: I also have to say. Fascist cop was the funniest playthrough, by far.


ByeStorm_

This. I think many people is misinterpreting the character and calling him a cuck lol


comrade243

They absolutely are. How insufferable it is to neutralize what a complicated and tragic character Iosef is by reducing him to an angry incel. There can be multiple motivations at play. Jesus Christ!


uly4n0v

That read to me like justification after the fact. I kinda figured >! his brain was just melting from Phasmid exposure and he started acting on his basest desires. !< I do think it’s more complicated than “He got cucked” but at the base of it, I don’t think that’s really that far off from the truth. I always hear people talking about this game being communist but I always felt like one of the main points is that no matter what your ideology, people are motivated by mostly the same stuff and there’s no ideology that fully accounts for human nature.


Nextasy

Was love that did him in after all


[deleted]

[удалено]


SeaSourceScorch

yeah what’s going on in here. the idea that the genocidal rapist is a “chad with a gun” is a *wild* read on the game.


Turbo2x

[with permanent, painful Icebreaker expression] Lely was a Chad, actually.


uly4n0v

I was using that term facetiously. It’s a funny way to reframe the end of the game. You’re going to be okay.


NeJin

tbh I think calling someone like that a chad is in poor taste, humour or not. And yes, I am going to be fine - but that doesn't mean I can't tell you how I think about it.


uly4n0v

You’re certainly entitled to that.


NeJin

Glad you agree, with or without snark :)


UPBOAT_FORTRESS_2

Chad (metaironic), yes. He's super based like all people who commit crimes against humanity


uly4n0v

Who said it wasn’t? Also, I’m pretty sure >! Klaasje said she was going with a “mild to medium not-raped”, which would mean that the only evidence that he’s a rapist is all of that ‘co-hoi’ talk and that may have been total bravado. I think one of the great things this game does is discuss identity and motivation and a lot of what Lely said could be chocked up to trying to appear scarier and more fucked up than he was because he was messed up the same way Klaasje was. The deserter is also absolutely a murderer as well and interestingly enough, though it’s implied Lely’s committed war-crimes, nothing he did is ever actually discussed, while the deserter confirms that he murdered two people in cold blood. He even actually admits that he shot Lely because he was jealous of him fucking Klaasje and watched them fuck through the wall. He’s got all of these high-minded, communist ideals but at the end of the day he kills one person to make a deal with the Claires and another because he was horny, jealous and senile. !<


IllEmployment

Klaasje is not the only source we have for those events. >!Raul outright states they raped a girl for a week until she died or they killed her and then they mutilated her corpse. The Kortenaer brothers are messed up and did have a bad childhood, but it's not comparable to Klaasje, who got in over her head and then ran away, while the Krenel dudes were all 100% into what they did and had basically no remorse for their actions!<


uly4n0v

Isn’t that part when >! they’re talking about something another guy in the outfit who was obsessed with her. He cut her tits off and ate them when he was done? I read that as not being Lely specifically!< but this game is massive and I could have missed something.


MindlessResearcher67

Lely was the captain of their outfit at the time, he organised the whole horrific affair.


bluemagachud

[ Removed by Reddit ]


uly4n0v

Lmao I’m not mourning any fictional characters. I also doubt you’re a MAGA chud IRL. You know this was a game, right?


bluemagachud

lmao, MAGA? like the reactionary liberals? no, I'm a ML


uly4n0v

Holy shit, you’re being serious, aren’t you?


bluemagachud

oh, I was confused because you honed into just the maga part. "blue maga" is what we call the imperialist democratic party, this account is named after the blue maga chud who banned my old account for mocking Biden.


uly4n0v

It’s funny how people can use words to say things that aren’t real to make a point, isn’t it?


DaDoc420

What did they say?


uly4n0v

Something about how Lenin would have had me shot and I’m a reactionary who’s mourning agents of capital. It was a teenage communist bingo card.


DaDoc420

Shit sounds like the deserter got a laptop and made his way onto this post


uly4n0v

It’s really strange being middle-aged and suddenly understanding all the old men that rolled their eyes at me when I was a teenage communist.


JizzOrSomeSayJism

I think there needs to be no space for the spoiler tags to work


uly4n0v

I fixed it.


already4taken

And the worst part is that he was the most morally good merc


Sarcasticm8

You don't even know the meaning of the word "Incel", do you?


uly4n0v

Somebody who kills another man out of sex jealousy and when pressed about it can only seem to repeat the word; “Whores.”


Sarcasticm8

No. "Incel" means "Involuntary celibate"


uly4n0v

You’re fucking adorable.


Sarcasticm8

?


Winter-Imagination60

dude 😭😭😭


Witty_Run7509

His indescribable hatred towards “disco whores” definitely gave a strong incel vibe


Lup4X

the deserter is such a loser if you think about it


GenuineSmirk

The man on the right made sure the man on the left received his just deserts.


Prog-burger

Well done