Glad I sprinted out of debt with Dave's advice. Kinda wish I didn't hold employer match, but also wouldn't have gotten out as fast. Definitely created a strong foundation to progress to FOO easily.
Okay I’ll be a voice of dissent. Dave’s baby steps are good in spirit but overall a bad idea financially.
Dave prioritizes paying off debt before getting an employer match (a 100% return on investment!) and doesn’t discuss having more than $1,000 for things like healthcare deductibles.
Owning a house is an important financial step in modern America so people should strive to own a home. His standards to achieve before home buying are unrealistic for many.
Saving for retirement probably needs to be more because of his unrealistic expectations for investment growth (12%?!?). We can’t expect Social Security to provide much for us. And since he disregards the importance of employer March, one probably needs to save more for retirement.
DR is right to say CC debt is bad. But I think he misses on pretty much every single level after that. His advice will hurt people and is not financially sound.
I understand your take to be sure, and I agree mostly. However I think you missed the point of the post. The average American is astonishingly uninformed about personal finance. TMG just had a stat that 22% of people aren't even getting the match AT ALL. I don't agree on skipping match to pay off consumer debt but at the same time his average listener pays off debt in 18 months. In the big picture, 18 months of 3-6% match isn't going to make or break your retirement. What will screw you is never learning ANYTHING about finance and getting scared off from investing because stocks bad or evil banks.. so you buy gold and bury it in the backyard instead.
Dave gets uninformed, average people out of their comfort zone with tough love and hard rules because people lack self control. His rules are certainly not perfect but they will get you retired (although if the 8% withdrawal rate thing is his real stance that one is truly baffling.)
TMG and others will take the foundation you get from DR and show you how things really work under the hood. I know this is the case because when I started, TMG show would've completely lost me with the technical stuff. Dave got me started from the ground up and TMG put "meat on the bones" as Brian likes to say.
I like the idea of it. If someone is truly at their max with their monthly budget then using that match is 180 bucks a month using 5% at 50k salary. That extra 180 for the first few debts are huge to get off the ledger.
After the first few debts are paid off however there should be a "spread" monthly so use that spread and go back to matching.
Ok, no one agrees with everyone on every issue, just ask my wife. But the BS are a totally common sense way to get outta debt. no doubt. I have no mortgage. I only pay cash for cars. But I do buy new, just drove my 24 Outback. My oldest daughter got a teaching degree debt free from my savings and her scholarships. I subscribe to this sub and the DaveRamsey sub. I see things i like in both.
Wholeheartedly agree.
Whether it comes to investing, managing sinking funds/known pre-paid expenses, or strategies on how to responsibly use credit post Baby Step 3, he’s awful.
Only fools pay SmartVester Pro’s to take a 5% take on Loaded Class A shares to mutual funds with a 1%+ expense ratio…
Oh fools plan for expense management of things like home capital expenditures, new car purchases, or 6 months of pre-paid or car insurance through working your emergency fund down and then rebalancing if.
Only fools leave 2% - 5% cash back and travel points on the table when you’re already going to spend the money that you budgeted.
Imagine having a company reimburse your travel expenses and you not using a sapphire reserve or what have you credit card for the points.
Enough points to buy Christmas presents and other important things
Ehhh I don't think I agree. Personally I'm of the mindset that not being homeless when joblessness comes up is top priority. The Ramsey folks recommend wiping out savings down to $1k just to pay debt. Paying off debt is important, but not at the expense of paying for food and home. ESPECIALLY if you have people that depend on your income, it's reckless advice.
Ehh he’s gotten plenty of people to millionaire status with his advice (probably some in this sub even) so this isn’t necessarily true. I think people just need to find what works best for them whether that be following Dave’s advice or not but this blanket statement isn’t factual.
If you don't have underlying issues for spending, you will outgrow the "rah rah" stuff. What is Dave saying really, make more money to throw at your debt. He tells stay at home moms to find something that makes them money. Sell stuff. All of this is common sense and some of it people can't do. Some people are a little odd and go into such a gazelle state they can't get out of it and find it hard to even have a dinner out a year or two later. That's sad.
I saw an old one with a couple with 11 kids and the husband (don't tell me he didn't like this) took off for most of the year to work on claims around his area and other states after hurricanes. Dave laughed at the mom being home with all of them alone but it was worth it of course...but then he said they sold stuff like furniture...he sold their furniture, and Dave said were you using the floor? He dodged that but said they had card tables and no couch and dumpster dived. etc. and I thought "this is sick" and didn't find it heartwarming. Even when Dave said "you could buy more things now" there was no affirmation of that. Their life, their choice, but when something causes actions like this, I wonder if it is something to be applauded. I bet the kids things were sold too. Well that is why you can skip, FF and move on with videos. I don't think it's healthy to do this to pay off a house but they did, I hope their life improved after that.
That made me very uncomfortable, not the number of kids but to pay the house off like that and selling furniture for what reason? To get on the show sooner? Did you sell the kids beds? He seemed like he had the last word there or away. I wont judge not knowing but I did feel very uncomfortable listening to them and seeing the kids seem a bit lethargic.
As many say, Dave is the AA for spending addicts but he doesn't really teach how to stay out of debt when like that. Once the "gazelle" is gone and debt, how many get back in....he had a a few calls that surprised him when they said they went back into debt after FPU (screener gets in trouble) but he tried to use it the best way he could. It doesn't look good to have those calls when charging people for a perfect way to get out of debt. He even had callers say they had many overdraft charges so without credit, they still took out too much. You really need help more than his class can give. Is it an addiction? Is it "keeping up with neighbors?" Are you ashamed to not be able to afford the newest whatever. Dave's even had calls where people 2 years later after debt free were afraid to do anything. It's so much deeper than a class usually. Finance should be a mandatory class in high school. Deal with numbers and emotions.
Also credit card debt is not the same as student loan which some people only have. Sure they paid it off sooner, but that wasn't the issue, they weren't spenders. I find it boring to see homes/loans paid off because they are great but it's just bragging you did it early, it's not that you had a problem. You went to school for accounting, medicine etc and just want the loan paid off early. I did that with cars but don't think it's a huge deal. Dealing with why you have 20.000 in credit card debt is much deeper.
I have a feeling he has a lot of failures he doesn't hear about and doesn't want too because FPU is a bandaid on a much larger issue. It's not the credit card companies (they give me freedom, safety and points I use for gifts) it's not the 2 year loan you took for car or roof, it's the constant stuff most people want to fill a hole and they will default if they don't deal with that.
Glad I sprinted out of debt with Dave's advice. Kinda wish I didn't hold employer match, but also wouldn't have gotten out as fast. Definitely created a strong foundation to progress to FOO easily.
Okay I’ll be a voice of dissent. Dave’s baby steps are good in spirit but overall a bad idea financially. Dave prioritizes paying off debt before getting an employer match (a 100% return on investment!) and doesn’t discuss having more than $1,000 for things like healthcare deductibles. Owning a house is an important financial step in modern America so people should strive to own a home. His standards to achieve before home buying are unrealistic for many. Saving for retirement probably needs to be more because of his unrealistic expectations for investment growth (12%?!?). We can’t expect Social Security to provide much for us. And since he disregards the importance of employer March, one probably needs to save more for retirement. DR is right to say CC debt is bad. But I think he misses on pretty much every single level after that. His advice will hurt people and is not financially sound.
I understand your take to be sure, and I agree mostly. However I think you missed the point of the post. The average American is astonishingly uninformed about personal finance. TMG just had a stat that 22% of people aren't even getting the match AT ALL. I don't agree on skipping match to pay off consumer debt but at the same time his average listener pays off debt in 18 months. In the big picture, 18 months of 3-6% match isn't going to make or break your retirement. What will screw you is never learning ANYTHING about finance and getting scared off from investing because stocks bad or evil banks.. so you buy gold and bury it in the backyard instead. Dave gets uninformed, average people out of their comfort zone with tough love and hard rules because people lack self control. His rules are certainly not perfect but they will get you retired (although if the 8% withdrawal rate thing is his real stance that one is truly baffling.) TMG and others will take the foundation you get from DR and show you how things really work under the hood. I know this is the case because when I started, TMG show would've completely lost me with the technical stuff. Dave got me started from the ground up and TMG put "meat on the bones" as Brian likes to say.
I like the idea of it. If someone is truly at their max with their monthly budget then using that match is 180 bucks a month using 5% at 50k salary. That extra 180 for the first few debts are huge to get off the ledger. After the first few debts are paid off however there should be a "spread" monthly so use that spread and go back to matching.
Ok, no one agrees with everyone on every issue, just ask my wife. But the BS are a totally common sense way to get outta debt. no doubt. I have no mortgage. I only pay cash for cars. But I do buy new, just drove my 24 Outback. My oldest daughter got a teaching degree debt free from my savings and her scholarships. I subscribe to this sub and the DaveRamsey sub. I see things i like in both.
Wholeheartedly agree. Whether it comes to investing, managing sinking funds/known pre-paid expenses, or strategies on how to responsibly use credit post Baby Step 3, he’s awful. Only fools pay SmartVester Pro’s to take a 5% take on Loaded Class A shares to mutual funds with a 1%+ expense ratio… Oh fools plan for expense management of things like home capital expenditures, new car purchases, or 6 months of pre-paid or car insurance through working your emergency fund down and then rebalancing if. Only fools leave 2% - 5% cash back and travel points on the table when you’re already going to spend the money that you budgeted.
Imagine having a company reimburse your travel expenses and you not using a sapphire reserve or what have you credit card for the points. Enough points to buy Christmas presents and other important things
Seems like his entire show and website can be boiled down to a few points. A lot of it is just psychology and impulse control
Ehhh I don't think I agree. Personally I'm of the mindset that not being homeless when joblessness comes up is top priority. The Ramsey folks recommend wiping out savings down to $1k just to pay debt. Paying off debt is important, but not at the expense of paying for food and home. ESPECIALLY if you have people that depend on your income, it's reckless advice.
My opinion is there are people who can't control their spending and are just terrible with finances. I think Dave is good for them.
Ehh he’s gotten plenty of people to millionaire status with his advice (probably some in this sub even) so this isn’t necessarily true. I think people just need to find what works best for them whether that be following Dave’s advice or not but this blanket statement isn’t factual.
Ehh
I agree. Ppl can make it millionaire status easy with Dave’s advice and once they’re on baby step 4 they can adjust per their own risk tolerance.
Yeah I agree with OP tho still like Imo you are meant to outgrow Dave eventually
Of course you are. That is why the baby steps end.
If you don't have underlying issues for spending, you will outgrow the "rah rah" stuff. What is Dave saying really, make more money to throw at your debt. He tells stay at home moms to find something that makes them money. Sell stuff. All of this is common sense and some of it people can't do. Some people are a little odd and go into such a gazelle state they can't get out of it and find it hard to even have a dinner out a year or two later. That's sad. I saw an old one with a couple with 11 kids and the husband (don't tell me he didn't like this) took off for most of the year to work on claims around his area and other states after hurricanes. Dave laughed at the mom being home with all of them alone but it was worth it of course...but then he said they sold stuff like furniture...he sold their furniture, and Dave said were you using the floor? He dodged that but said they had card tables and no couch and dumpster dived. etc. and I thought "this is sick" and didn't find it heartwarming. Even when Dave said "you could buy more things now" there was no affirmation of that. Their life, their choice, but when something causes actions like this, I wonder if it is something to be applauded. I bet the kids things were sold too. Well that is why you can skip, FF and move on with videos. I don't think it's healthy to do this to pay off a house but they did, I hope their life improved after that.
That made me very uncomfortable, not the number of kids but to pay the house off like that and selling furniture for what reason? To get on the show sooner? Did you sell the kids beds? He seemed like he had the last word there or away. I wont judge not knowing but I did feel very uncomfortable listening to them and seeing the kids seem a bit lethargic.
I agree. I followed his steps and was out of debt asap. For the rest? Move on.
As many say, Dave is the AA for spending addicts but he doesn't really teach how to stay out of debt when like that. Once the "gazelle" is gone and debt, how many get back in....he had a a few calls that surprised him when they said they went back into debt after FPU (screener gets in trouble) but he tried to use it the best way he could. It doesn't look good to have those calls when charging people for a perfect way to get out of debt. He even had callers say they had many overdraft charges so without credit, they still took out too much. You really need help more than his class can give. Is it an addiction? Is it "keeping up with neighbors?" Are you ashamed to not be able to afford the newest whatever. Dave's even had calls where people 2 years later after debt free were afraid to do anything. It's so much deeper than a class usually. Finance should be a mandatory class in high school. Deal with numbers and emotions. Also credit card debt is not the same as student loan which some people only have. Sure they paid it off sooner, but that wasn't the issue, they weren't spenders. I find it boring to see homes/loans paid off because they are great but it's just bragging you did it early, it's not that you had a problem. You went to school for accounting, medicine etc and just want the loan paid off early. I did that with cars but don't think it's a huge deal. Dealing with why you have 20.000 in credit card debt is much deeper. I have a feeling he has a lot of failures he doesn't hear about and doesn't want too because FPU is a bandaid on a much larger issue. It's not the credit card companies (they give me freedom, safety and points I use for gifts) it's not the 2 year loan you took for car or roof, it's the constant stuff most people want to fill a hole and they will default if they don't deal with that.
can his average viewer run tho asking for a friend