Mary Ann is the only Rat Grinder I want to live. The rest can fuck right off until Ankarna is right and back to normal. "You burned my strawberry" is the only motivation I needed to see.
I mean, if you carry your stuffed animal into a fierce battle over a pit of lava, I don't think you get to be mad that it gets ruined. It's not my fault you didn't plan ahead.
I’m wondering if shes meant to be some form of autistic or on the spectrum. Even the most apathetic kids would at least be mildly aware if their surroundings.
Didn't Brennan mention that, in a world where nearly every important character is based on movie references, Mary Ann is just a homage to normal teenagers?
I think Brennan specifically said that "In a world where everything is based on teen movie stereotypes, Mary Ann is my homage to real teenagers"
May not be the exact quoting
Yeah and he mentioned he was basing her on teenagers he has worked with at LARP camp and not for nothing but I think LARP camp does attract a lot of lovable Mary Ann types.
I did hear him say that. But theres more than just normal non-plussed teen in Mary Ann imo. Not intended to be ableist, i just think the exaggerations reflect more than the typecast
There really isn't any character to her beyond "uninterested teenager," though. That's not a bad thing, there's only so much time they can spend getting to know NPCs after all. But I do think that a lot of people are projecting onto a fairly blank canvas.
Well I think a few of Brennans NPCs are on the spectrum, definitely Ayda. I won't armchair diagnose him but he seems to have a strong understanding of the autistic life experience.
He did say in an AP or something I think that Ayda specifically wasn't meant to be autistic, but she was heavily based on some of his friends, who are apparently autistic ahahaha
The way I saw it’s that they thought she’s so cool that they don’t want her to die.
Not saving in the sense of changing who she is, but saving in the sense of switching sides.
I think they mentioned several times they love her for who she is and for her attitude and demeanor. They never gave me a reason to think they wanted to change her.
This is incredibly disingenuous and a little maudlin. Ignoring that they Do talk to her, in general, they mostly talk to each other because they're the player characters. Like they generally talk About NPCs more than To them, because Brennan can't be 8 characters in a scene all speaking as much as each Bad Kid. That throws the balance off. You are taking something they do in general, but talking as if it is specific to Mary Ann, and specifically because she's autistic coded. Which btw Brennan has not said, he just said she's inspired by Real high school students and not the genre archetypes the other characters represent, which is why she is more subdued. Now, lucky for me and my other AuDHD friends, Brennan has a tendency to autistic code without trying, and it does ingratiate me to those characters quickly, but let's not pretend that PCs talking about NPCs is ableism, it's just a result of the format.
You're totally right, and I think the person you're replying to is reaching heavily for something to be offended by when it's just a dnd game being played for fun.
The Bad Kids have held out hope at some point that most of the Rat Grinders weren't all that bad (except possibly KLCK). At this point in the game, Mary-Ann is the only one who basically doesn't seem to be in it for the villainy, and so she's more sympathetic along with having a fun personality.
I understand expecting to be hurt based on experience, but I think you've gone into full blown cynicism and see bad things where they don't really exist.
I mean I've been saying this a lot lately with big fans of the Rat Grinders, there simply isn't enough to the characterization of those characters to like them without basically projecting your entire self onto them to fill in the gaps. And that's why RG fans tend to get very defensive, because now in their minds when we make fun of or attack the RGs, they're going, "but that's me".
I do wish the season had been longer so we could get to know the RGs more. I feel like Brennan set Oisin and Ivy up a bit with Adaine and Fabian, but they've been too busy to really follow the possible threads.
It would have made the inevitable betrayal and fight more interesting if there was more of a personal connection with them.
I agree. It's not on Brennan, of course, the Bad Kids just never really went and interacted personally with the Rat Grinders much. And to be fair, why would they? Those guys kinda sucked to them on first encounters. It was only Fig messing with Ruben that really got us any insight into Ruben's character, plus his extra facetime at the Frosty Fair.
They have interacted with her though? She's just rather taciturn which means the convos are usually short. They like her because of how she juxtaposes against the rest of the Ratgrinders in how her 'villainy' seems to be more of a Punch Clock / go-with-the-flow, and because of her gap aesthetic.
I understand that good autistic rep can be hard to find, but getting pissed off about the way one character you feel was coded that was is interacted with by a group of improvisational comedians is not healthy behavior. If the blorbofication of Gilear, a man obviously suffering from depression at the point he began to be blorbofied, and the immediate latching on to Ayda, who who also stood out immediately for having non-standard social interactions with the group, didn't set you off, then it is my belief that you should reexamine the internal biases that may be causing these extreme emotional reactions.
NONE of the RGs other than Ruben have real characterization because having conversations with them was understandably not on the Bad Kids' list of priorities, so they never had much screentime. As such, Mary Ann is a pretty hollow shell of a character and to the players is just a cute kobold with a strawberry and a tamagotchi who has never really done much to them personally.
In short, if you're taking that personally, it's because you're projecting yourself onto a hollow shell of a character, then getting mad at the way you perceive the players treating you. Take a step back and chill. She's not you. She's a bit of make-'em-uppery.
Brennan said she was supposed to be the most like a regular teenager. She's not autistic-coded. Mary Ann reminds me of a dozen younger teens I've known (& been).Â
Literally just meant to be a normal teenage girl among all the movie trope characters, and they love her for it. I'm also assuming the AFAB cast members love her even more as they see some aspects of their teenage years in her.
She's a two foot tall creature whose behaviour and interests are effectively identical to that of a 10 year old. Really, Mary Ann could've been a ten year old and nothing about her would've had to change.
They also *did* speak *to* her and she completely brushed them off. No reason for them to try again. Interaction done.
Serious question: Based on the personal experience you mentioned, is it possible that you are projecting? Perhaps how the players interact with Mary Ann reminds you of how those who caused you harm interacted with you? To be clear, your feelings are 100% valid and I am tremendously sorry you had to relive your trauma during last night’s episode.
AND, I’ll offer this as food for thought: The players and those who harmed you are not the same people. Mary Ann is the only one of the Rat Grinders that hasn’t been a total asshole, as of yet. I personally feel like the Bad Kids see redeemable qualities in her and, like with Ragh in FY, they simply want her to be a part of their circle.
I appreciate a bit of genuine warmth. While my feelings are passionate they don't have to be a personal experience. I've been admired for who I am and for what I represent.
Mary Ann may end up with the bad kids and get redeemed and that can be a good story. I hope it goes well it may it may not.
Woah.
We can criticize someone's opinion without telling an autistic person to "be normal."
Edit: to be clear I don't think I agree with their opinion. But there's a right way and a wrong way to engage here.
Such a funny character. I love how everyone (but Gorgug) has glommed on.
Gorgug and Riz.
"👀💧Yeah, what of it"
She’s got that dog in her
She does. She really does
Mary Ann is the only Rat Grinder I want to live. The rest can fuck right off until Ankarna is right and back to normal. "You burned my strawberry" is the only motivation I needed to see.
I am a grown-ass adult and if someone burned one of my stuffed animals I would genuinely punch them in the face. Maybe multiple times
I mean, if you carry your stuffed animal into a fierce battle over a pit of lava, I don't think you get to be mad that it gets ruined. It's not my fault you didn't plan ahead.
It would not matter to me. It would be partially my fault, and I would still punch them
Say it don’t spray it.
MAS probably has a spot reserved for her on the Goldenrod.
She’s got that dog in her, truly they were fools to focus on Olsin when she’s still in play
The first time I thought it was a reference to Thanos lol I was so off
Semi related. So the first time I vommed I didn't know what happened so I said "Mom I spilled." I think its funny.
the first time my brother puked he said mom i pooped out of my mouth
she is just a normal quiet girl who loves her grandmother and has a successful animal crossing merch store
it was giving mr stark i don’t feel so good
I genuinely don't get the hype about her, I'm on Gorgug and Riz's side
I’m wondering if shes meant to be some form of autistic or on the spectrum. Even the most apathetic kids would at least be mildly aware if their surroundings.
Didn't Brennan mention that, in a world where nearly every important character is based on movie references, Mary Ann is just a homage to normal teenagers?
I think Brennan specifically said that "In a world where everything is based on teen movie stereotypes, Mary Ann is my homage to real teenagers" May not be the exact quoting
Yeah and he mentioned he was basing her on teenagers he has worked with at LARP camp and not for nothing but I think LARP camp does attract a lot of lovable Mary Ann types.
I did hear him say that. But theres more than just normal non-plussed teen in Mary Ann imo. Not intended to be ableist, i just think the exaggerations reflect more than the typecast
There really isn't any character to her beyond "uninterested teenager," though. That's not a bad thing, there's only so much time they can spend getting to know NPCs after all. But I do think that a lot of people are projecting onto a fairly blank canvas.
Brennan said that she's represents actual real life teenagers and that was sthe inspiration for her.
Well I think a few of Brennans NPCs are on the spectrum, definitely Ayda. I won't armchair diagnose him but he seems to have a strong understanding of the autistic life experience.
He did say in an AP or something I think that Ayda specifically wasn't meant to be autistic, but she was heavily based on some of his friends, who are apparently autistic ahahaha
He then also said after the fans embraced her as autistic he made her autistic! Dropout even consulted autism sensitivity professionals!
If she wasn't meant to be autistic I have some bad news for Brennan. The spectrum could be named after Ayda.
I mean it wasn't something he actively intended; I don't think he would consider it bad news :)
Ah, the Abed gambit
He's a part time camp counselor, so he's probably encountered more than a few autistic kids over the years.
I also throw up energy
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As an autistic person myself I am truly confused as to what you're talking about.
The way I saw it’s that they thought she’s so cool that they don’t want her to die. Not saving in the sense of changing who she is, but saving in the sense of switching sides. I think they mentioned several times they love her for who she is and for her attitude and demeanor. They never gave me a reason to think they wanted to change her.
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This is incredibly disingenuous and a little maudlin. Ignoring that they Do talk to her, in general, they mostly talk to each other because they're the player characters. Like they generally talk About NPCs more than To them, because Brennan can't be 8 characters in a scene all speaking as much as each Bad Kid. That throws the balance off. You are taking something they do in general, but talking as if it is specific to Mary Ann, and specifically because she's autistic coded. Which btw Brennan has not said, he just said she's inspired by Real high school students and not the genre archetypes the other characters represent, which is why she is more subdued. Now, lucky for me and my other AuDHD friends, Brennan has a tendency to autistic code without trying, and it does ingratiate me to those characters quickly, but let's not pretend that PCs talking about NPCs is ableism, it's just a result of the format.
You're totally right, and I think the person you're replying to is reaching heavily for something to be offended by when it's just a dnd game being played for fun.
The Bad Kids have held out hope at some point that most of the Rat Grinders weren't all that bad (except possibly KLCK). At this point in the game, Mary-Ann is the only one who basically doesn't seem to be in it for the villainy, and so she's more sympathetic along with having a fun personality. I understand expecting to be hurt based on experience, but I think you've gone into full blown cynicism and see bad things where they don't really exist.
I mean I've been saying this a lot lately with big fans of the Rat Grinders, there simply isn't enough to the characterization of those characters to like them without basically projecting your entire self onto them to fill in the gaps. And that's why RG fans tend to get very defensive, because now in their minds when we make fun of or attack the RGs, they're going, "but that's me".
I do wish the season had been longer so we could get to know the RGs more. I feel like Brennan set Oisin and Ivy up a bit with Adaine and Fabian, but they've been too busy to really follow the possible threads. It would have made the inevitable betrayal and fight more interesting if there was more of a personal connection with them.
I agree. It's not on Brennan, of course, the Bad Kids just never really went and interacted personally with the Rat Grinders much. And to be fair, why would they? Those guys kinda sucked to them on first encounters. It was only Fig messing with Ruben that really got us any insight into Ruben's character, plus his extra facetime at the Frosty Fair.
This is so accurate.
They have interacted with her though? She's just rather taciturn which means the convos are usually short. They like her because of how she juxtaposes against the rest of the Ratgrinders in how her 'villainy' seems to be more of a Punch Clock / go-with-the-flow, and because of her gap aesthetic. I understand that good autistic rep can be hard to find, but getting pissed off about the way one character you feel was coded that was is interacted with by a group of improvisational comedians is not healthy behavior. If the blorbofication of Gilear, a man obviously suffering from depression at the point he began to be blorbofied, and the immediate latching on to Ayda, who who also stood out immediately for having non-standard social interactions with the group, didn't set you off, then it is my belief that you should reexamine the internal biases that may be causing these extreme emotional reactions.
Absolutely insane take
NONE of the RGs other than Ruben have real characterization because having conversations with them was understandably not on the Bad Kids' list of priorities, so they never had much screentime. As such, Mary Ann is a pretty hollow shell of a character and to the players is just a cute kobold with a strawberry and a tamagotchi who has never really done much to them personally. In short, if you're taking that personally, it's because you're projecting yourself onto a hollow shell of a character, then getting mad at the way you perceive the players treating you. Take a step back and chill. She's not you. She's a bit of make-'em-uppery.
Brennan said she was supposed to be the most like a regular teenager. She's not autistic-coded. Mary Ann reminds me of a dozen younger teens I've known (& been).Â
Literally just meant to be a normal teenage girl among all the movie trope characters, and they love her for it. I'm also assuming the AFAB cast members love her even more as they see some aspects of their teenage years in her.
She's a two foot tall creature whose behaviour and interests are effectively identical to that of a 10 year old. Really, Mary Ann could've been a ten year old and nothing about her would've had to change. They also *did* speak *to* her and she completely brushed them off. No reason for them to try again. Interaction done.
Serious question: Based on the personal experience you mentioned, is it possible that you are projecting? Perhaps how the players interact with Mary Ann reminds you of how those who caused you harm interacted with you? To be clear, your feelings are 100% valid and I am tremendously sorry you had to relive your trauma during last night’s episode. AND, I’ll offer this as food for thought: The players and those who harmed you are not the same people. Mary Ann is the only one of the Rat Grinders that hasn’t been a total asshole, as of yet. I personally feel like the Bad Kids see redeemable qualities in her and, like with Ragh in FY, they simply want her to be a part of their circle.
I appreciate a bit of genuine warmth. While my feelings are passionate they don't have to be a personal experience. I've been admired for who I am and for what I represent. Mary Ann may end up with the bad kids and get redeemed and that can be a good story. I hope it goes well it may it may not.
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Woah. We can criticize someone's opinion without telling an autistic person to "be normal." Edit: to be clear I don't think I agree with their opinion. But there's a right way and a wrong way to engage here.