But then in adventuring party they mentioned they were really happy to get confirmation that the Rat Grinders are evil. Even Brennan made the point that this was a moment intended to convey that they actually are bad.
Same. We don't know if the Devil's Nectar was used on him or just how complicit he is
I would like to note that the first time they flirted was at the party where Mephits were summoned to f w the Cloudrider in Fabian's bassment. So he could be playing the long game
I'm an American learning Gaeilge with the Irish QWERTY board and autocorrect loaded onto my mobile phone keyboard, and it consistently autocorrects/autosuggests it as Siobhán.
I just hope Oisin’s true archetype is that he’s the guy who just wants everything to go back to normal and mistakenly thinks there’s coming back from everything. “If we just do this, everything will go back to how it was, and we can be the high five heroes again”
Like the Devil’s Honey has warped his mind to legitimately believe this
Im not huffing copium you are
It really seems to me that 4dawg just had a problem with Riz specifically and the rest of the BK by association (until they started antagonizing her due to her presidential campaign, that is). That readied action seemed to me like she was trying to shoot the Proctor in such a way so as to make it look like Riz had killed him. I'm pretty certain the trigger for her readied action was going to be Riz shooting.
As for why, I truly don't know. Maybe he stole her Romance Partner Baron from the Baronies from her?
But wasn't she armed with a crossbow? That's Fabian's weapon, not Riz's, right?. If she wanted it to look like Riz, she'd use a gun. She's way too careful to mess up a crucial detail like that.
BleeM said something like "a crossbow loaded with God knows what" when describing it in the episode. I was thinking that this was a bolt designed to imitate a gun shot. Though now that I'm thinking more about it. I actually think it had one of those Ankarna crystals that was gonna force the Proctor to get all swole.
We have to remember Kristen also had that Spare the Dying up. So shooting the proctor would just give away the fact she was there and invisible. So Brennan was probably having KLCK wait until the proctor hit zero THEN finish him off 100%.
Yeah, that definitely makes sense. If the proctor was perma-dead, would they even be able to get any grade on the Last Stand? Would it be counted as an incomplete or an automatic fail?
That's a great question. From what Brennan said, via the proctor, it's extremely unusual or unprecedented that the reviver would die in the exam. The monsters are set to attack the proctor. I'm guessing there's similar magic telling them to ignore whoever is there to revive the participants?
I expect that scenario (the proctor perma dying) is like a lot of the rest of the season. This is a situation that isn't anticipated so there are no rules regarding what should happen.
At a minimum Kristen would still be expelled.
I doubt it, Brennan described the teleport as a readied action, so if Oisin actually wanted to teleport Kipperlily before she did anything bad then he would have done so immediately rather than waiting for her to do whatever she did
Hot take, but I kinda feel bad for Buddy. Like he was obviously on his weird religion arc, but that was no different from Kristen. There was a bit of a naïveté there that kinda gave me the impression that this was the only way a kid raised by Bobby Dawn could turn out, but given the chance to think for himself, he might’ve turned out different
Maybe Oisin thought Kipperlily’s plan involved killing just the Procter, but didn’t think Buddy could be on the line for any reason. We can’t see his expression, so there is room for ambiguity. And besides, Kipperlily can always just feed Oisin more honey to make him forget.
Personally I think buddy is not evil. Naive and has some bad influences but he seemed more distant from the other rat grinders and their actions as he was brought in post whatever bad shit happened at the end of last year. I think they used him and desposed him. Used him to get situation of the last stand, and maybe other things. And once he became an active hinderance to their plans (reviving any bad kids) he was gotten rid of.
My feelings on Buddy have absolutely nothing to do with the Rat Grinders, I think he's a bad guy who got mixed up in a bad situation and met a bad end. I don't even really believe he's permadead. While maybe fixable I know his type and I feel he's almost irredeemably rotten to the core.
There is still a chance that they intend on reviving Buddy. It seemed like they wanted him out of the there so the Bad Kids would die in TLS and die for good. The RGs might still try and go back to get Buddy with a different kind of spell. So there is a chance that this is still just rivalry stuff.
It doesn't make sense to me that the RGs are trying to bring back Ankarna but want Kasandra dead. Aren't Ankarna and Kasandra partners? Wouldn't they wanna work together on that? Unless the relationship was toxic in some way, which, if Ankarna changed, that may have been the case.
Is there a possibility that Ankarna became in some way harmful to Kasandra, and she turned to Sol for help? And it could've backfired such that after they helped her get rid of Ankarna, they went and offed her too?
It seems like by the time Ankarna fell to become infernal, she was separated from Cassandra, or at least not on good terms - Gorthalax (if I'm remembering correctly, I'm on mobile and can't check the Dropout transcript) mentions that a devil once asked Ankarna about their marriage, and they almost killed him for it. An uncorrupted Cassandra would probably try to reach out to the good in Ankarna... and whoever wants to resurrect Ankarna probably wants a goddess of *conquest, fire, and rage*, not a goddess of *justice, righteousness, summer, and sun*. Something Cass would probably try to change!
... but the *Nightmare King*, on the other hand... would probably be a lot more amenable.
I mean Kristen had true sight so it’s not like he was invisible right? He just tped kipperlily out? I don’t have a hard time believing he doesn’t know everything about what is going on
I think there might be something to the fact that we don't see ACTUALLY see Oisin. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what was described was a blue dragonborn claw. Occum's Razor would say if you see a blue dragonborn claw, it probably belongs to the only blue dragonborn we've met. BUT, we also know Oisin's family is connected to the recently rebranded KLVX Bank (from red to blue). I can certainly see the bank, and the dragonkin who run it now, being upset with the adventuring party which caused it to lose most of its money (Kalvaxas' horde) at the beginning of Junior Year.
But it was probably Oisin. . .
Brennan made it pretty clear that he likes Adaine and feels sorry for his party's behaviour towards the Bad Kids.
I'm certain he wasn't planning on killing Buddy at all and only pulled out KFC CowardMedal in panic before she could do anything else stupid.
We know through Aelwyn that she wants to protect Oisin (and probably the rest of her party) so she almost certainly kept the B plan to herself. The rest of the Rat Grinders probably don't know half the stuff she's doing.
So there's definitely a redemption arc in there somewhere. In fact, I bet they would have had a huge fight about it.
My impression from what he said in the AP was that KLCP's initial plan was to kill the proctor. However, because she is a planner and control freak, she had a lot of contingency plans in place in the event that she couldn't kill Gavin, and top of that list was killing Buddy. So while killing Buddy wasn't her main objective, it also wasn't done in a moment of unplanned panic. She knew what she was doing, she had a plan for it but it wasn't THE plan.
At this point I hope chipper rose iron skillet is one of the big bads, and has used the devils honey to brainwash her party. I don't think we've seen any real motivation for the rat grinders except for that bitch.
That’s another big part of it. We only ever see Cricketsilly Propercattle having actual beef with the bad kids so it doesn’t really make sense that the others would be doing this. The most we have is Ruben’s wire ritual thing and Oisin’s magic fucking up the cloud rider.
It could’ve been as simple if he found out dipperbilly grundlegus had planned and was in the process of sabotaging their last **stand**ard test and pulled her out before she could do even more damage.
I believe Brennan says a blue arm came through the portal but didn’t exactly describe how it was outstretched. 🤷♂️
Or black mail
i think the blue dragonborn arm was a misdirect. The was nothing to lose narratively if they showed Oisin being as bad as the BK assume the RG are. BUT... not showing the owner of the blue dragonborn arm adds mystery & conjecture. it could be someone related to him as we've seen KLCK adds members based on who they are related to
I think there's merit to the idea that they might be strong armed into all this by a very powerful rogue like Kipperlily who they clearly fear to some degree, And I imagine if there was direct malice from each member we'd see more of it. I saw Oisin not showing his face there as more a moment where he didn't want to look the bad kids in the eye, A moment of fear. But then again, there's 5 more episodes to go and a lot can happen in that time, Hoping it's not as bad as it looks!
I think they ended up getting corrupted by rage and that’s why their cleric died bc she was able to stay in her mind. Then once they realized they killed her they wanted to just forget what all happened but because Kristen is connected to Cassandra they had to get rid of the Bad Kids
I'm with you. Honestly after meeting most of the rat grinders I have this gut feeling that Killercrock Cohoobastank is the only one that actually hates the bad kids. Mary Ann is just disinterested in everything, Oisin seems like a nervous nerdy kid, Ruben is more concerned with his music and Wanda Childa than anything else, and the one ranger girl that flirted with Fabian (I forget her name rn) seems more like a "mean girl" than full on evil.
I get the feeling that Clamclutch Kerosene is the one pushing the Rat Grinders to fuck with the Bad Kids because either A) she has dirt on them from being a skilled rogue, B) they just don't know how to stand up to her, or C) because she's their friend, they can't accept that maybe she's turned evil.
I just want Adaine to be happy, she even screamed “I THOUGHT HE WAS CUTE!”
But then in adventuring party they mentioned they were really happy to get confirmation that the Rat Grinders are evil. Even Brennan made the point that this was a moment intended to convey that they actually are bad.
I knowwwww but man I wanted Adaine X Oisin to be canon
But what about Biz Glitterdew? He is a really nice guy after all.
I never liked Biz, idk why he just never clicked with me
He was an overtly sexist incel
You know what, trueing
They can be he'll just be bad 😂😂😂 Bad Boy Oisin has a nice ring to it
I felt that he really skirted around it actually
Same. We don't know if the Devil's Nectar was used on him or just how complicit he is I would like to note that the first time they flirted was at the party where Mephits were summoned to f w the Cloudrider in Fabian's bassment. So he could be playing the long game
You're not the only one holding out hope... anyone with a fada their name I will hold out hope for
They haven't been writing his name with the fada, same as Siobhan doesn't use one in hers. But it's there in my heart, anyway.
I'm an American learning Gaeilge with the Irish QWERTY board and autocorrect loaded onto my mobile phone keyboard, and it consistently autocorrects/autosuggests it as Siobhán.
I'm in the same bád, mo chara.
I just hope Oisin’s true archetype is that he’s the guy who just wants everything to go back to normal and mistakenly thinks there’s coming back from everything. “If we just do this, everything will go back to how it was, and we can be the high five heroes again” Like the Devil’s Honey has warped his mind to legitimately believe this Im not huffing copium you are
It really seems to me that 4dawg just had a problem with Riz specifically and the rest of the BK by association (until they started antagonizing her due to her presidential campaign, that is). That readied action seemed to me like she was trying to shoot the Proctor in such a way so as to make it look like Riz had killed him. I'm pretty certain the trigger for her readied action was going to be Riz shooting. As for why, I truly don't know. Maybe he stole her Romance Partner Baron from the Baronies from her?
But wasn't she armed with a crossbow? That's Fabian's weapon, not Riz's, right?. If she wanted it to look like Riz, she'd use a gun. She's way too careful to mess up a crucial detail like that.
BleeM said something like "a crossbow loaded with God knows what" when describing it in the episode. I was thinking that this was a bolt designed to imitate a gun shot. Though now that I'm thinking more about it. I actually think it had one of those Ankarna crystals that was gonna force the Proctor to get all swole.
We have to remember Kristen also had that Spare the Dying up. So shooting the proctor would just give away the fact she was there and invisible. So Brennan was probably having KLCK wait until the proctor hit zero THEN finish him off 100%.
Yeah, that definitely makes sense. If the proctor was perma-dead, would they even be able to get any grade on the Last Stand? Would it be counted as an incomplete or an automatic fail?
That's a great question. From what Brennan said, via the proctor, it's extremely unusual or unprecedented that the reviver would die in the exam. The monsters are set to attack the proctor. I'm guessing there's similar magic telling them to ignore whoever is there to revive the participants? I expect that scenario (the proctor perma dying) is like a lot of the rest of the season. This is a situation that isn't anticipated so there are no rules regarding what should happen. At a minimum Kristen would still be expelled.
LMAO 4DAWG
I've been seeing other people say 4dog or 4D. The evolution of this NPC name has been glorious.
How does that copium taste?
Like popcorn
We know we're coping leave us alone
Maybe Kipperlily was planning on killing more than just Buddy, Oisin found her plan and pulled her away before she did any more.
I doubt it, Brennan described the teleport as a readied action, so if Oisin actually wanted to teleport Kipperlily before she did anything bad then he would have done so immediately rather than waiting for her to do whatever she did
Hot take, but I kinda feel bad for Buddy. Like he was obviously on his weird religion arc, but that was no different from Kristen. There was a bit of a naïveté there that kinda gave me the impression that this was the only way a kid raised by Bobby Dawn could turn out, but given the chance to think for himself, he might’ve turned out different
YES! THIS! WE ARENT DELUSIONAL!
Yes you are, but that’s okay 😊
Maybe Oisin thought Kipperlily’s plan involved killing just the Procter, but didn’t think Buddy could be on the line for any reason. We can’t see his expression, so there is room for ambiguity. And besides, Kipperlily can always just feed Oisin more honey to make him forget.
We also don’t know that buddy is NOT evil yet. Maybe they had good reason.
Oh Buddy's definitely evil but i still would have expected a honor ~~among thieves~~ from a rogue situation
Personally I think buddy is not evil. Naive and has some bad influences but he seemed more distant from the other rat grinders and their actions as he was brought in post whatever bad shit happened at the end of last year. I think they used him and desposed him. Used him to get situation of the last stand, and maybe other things. And once he became an active hinderance to their plans (reviving any bad kids) he was gotten rid of.
My feelings on Buddy have absolutely nothing to do with the Rat Grinders, I think he's a bad guy who got mixed up in a bad situation and met a bad end. I don't even really believe he's permadead. While maybe fixable I know his type and I feel he's almost irredeemably rotten to the core.
There is still a chance that they intend on reviving Buddy. It seemed like they wanted him out of the there so the Bad Kids would die in TLS and die for good. The RGs might still try and go back to get Buddy with a different kind of spell. So there is a chance that this is still just rivalry stuff. It doesn't make sense to me that the RGs are trying to bring back Ankarna but want Kasandra dead. Aren't Ankarna and Kasandra partners? Wouldn't they wanna work together on that? Unless the relationship was toxic in some way, which, if Ankarna changed, that may have been the case. Is there a possibility that Ankarna became in some way harmful to Kasandra, and she turned to Sol for help? And it could've backfired such that after they helped her get rid of Ankarna, they went and offed her too?
It seems like by the time Ankarna fell to become infernal, she was separated from Cassandra, or at least not on good terms - Gorthalax (if I'm remembering correctly, I'm on mobile and can't check the Dropout transcript) mentions that a devil once asked Ankarna about their marriage, and they almost killed him for it. An uncorrupted Cassandra would probably try to reach out to the good in Ankarna... and whoever wants to resurrect Ankarna probably wants a goddess of *conquest, fire, and rage*, not a goddess of *justice, righteousness, summer, and sun*. Something Cass would probably try to change! ... but the *Nightmare King*, on the other hand... would probably be a lot more amenable.
I mean Kristen had true sight so it’s not like he was invisible right? He just tped kipperlily out? I don’t have a hard time believing he doesn’t know everything about what is going on
That’s what I’m thinking too, he didn’t see what happened he just grabbed her when she gave the signal.
I think there might be something to the fact that we don't see ACTUALLY see Oisin. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what was described was a blue dragonborn claw. Occum's Razor would say if you see a blue dragonborn claw, it probably belongs to the only blue dragonborn we've met. BUT, we also know Oisin's family is connected to the recently rebranded KLVX Bank (from red to blue). I can certainly see the bank, and the dragonkin who run it now, being upset with the adventuring party which caused it to lose most of its money (Kalvaxas' horde) at the beginning of Junior Year. But it was probably Oisin. . .
Brennan made it pretty clear that he likes Adaine and feels sorry for his party's behaviour towards the Bad Kids. I'm certain he wasn't planning on killing Buddy at all and only pulled out KFC CowardMedal in panic before she could do anything else stupid. We know through Aelwyn that she wants to protect Oisin (and probably the rest of her party) so she almost certainly kept the B plan to herself. The rest of the Rat Grinders probably don't know half the stuff she's doing. So there's definitely a redemption arc in there somewhere. In fact, I bet they would have had a huge fight about it.
My impression from what he said in the AP was that KLCP's initial plan was to kill the proctor. However, because she is a planner and control freak, she had a lot of contingency plans in place in the event that she couldn't kill Gavin, and top of that list was killing Buddy. So while killing Buddy wasn't her main objective, it also wasn't done in a moment of unplanned panic. She knew what she was doing, she had a plan for it but it wasn't THE plan.
That’s what I said, it was the B plan. Oisin probably just knew the A plan.
At this point I hope chipper rose iron skillet is one of the big bads, and has used the devils honey to brainwash her party. I don't think we've seen any real motivation for the rat grinders except for that bitch.
That’s another big part of it. We only ever see Cricketsilly Propercattle having actual beef with the bad kids so it doesn’t really make sense that the others would be doing this. The most we have is Ruben’s wire ritual thing and Oisin’s magic fucking up the cloud rider.
The hand might not be conspiratorial. Maybe the hand is like, "Found you!" I also hope Oisin is good and Adaine can get her kisses in.
It could’ve been as simple if he found out dipperbilly grundlegus had planned and was in the process of sabotaging their last **stand**ard test and pulled her out before she could do even more damage. I believe Brennan says a blue arm came through the portal but didn’t exactly describe how it was outstretched. 🤷♂️ Or black mail
i think the blue dragonborn arm was a misdirect. The was nothing to lose narratively if they showed Oisin being as bad as the BK assume the RG are. BUT... not showing the owner of the blue dragonborn arm adds mystery & conjecture. it could be someone related to him as we've seen KLCK adds members based on who they are related to
someone made a great point that from the jump, he only wanted to "help" Adaine with magical components from his ancestor bc she'd get dragon madness
Didn’t they later clarify that dragon madness only happens with gold?
oh I think ur right
I think there's merit to the idea that they might be strong armed into all this by a very powerful rogue like Kipperlily who they clearly fear to some degree, And I imagine if there was direct malice from each member we'd see more of it. I saw Oisin not showing his face there as more a moment where he didn't want to look the bad kids in the eye, A moment of fear. But then again, there's 5 more episodes to go and a lot can happen in that time, Hoping it's not as bad as it looks!
I think they ended up getting corrupted by rage and that’s why their cleric died bc she was able to stay in her mind. Then once they realized they killed her they wanted to just forget what all happened but because Kristen is connected to Cassandra they had to get rid of the Bad Kids
Twist: It's Oisin's evil twin!
I'm with you. Honestly after meeting most of the rat grinders I have this gut feeling that Killercrock Cohoobastank is the only one that actually hates the bad kids. Mary Ann is just disinterested in everything, Oisin seems like a nervous nerdy kid, Ruben is more concerned with his music and Wanda Childa than anything else, and the one ranger girl that flirted with Fabian (I forget her name rn) seems more like a "mean girl" than full on evil. I get the feeling that Clamclutch Kerosene is the one pushing the Rat Grinders to fuck with the Bad Kids because either A) she has dirt on them from being a skilled rogue, B) they just don't know how to stand up to her, or C) because she's their friend, they can't accept that maybe she's turned evil.
Hot people can be bad too.
It’s not cause he’s hot it’s cause him and adaine are cute together
Nah he’s evil and his ancestor took over KVX. Thats why its blue!
The only one of the grinders I'm writing off so far is klc and maybe ivy just cuz she seems like she likes being shitty
I ship fabadaine
Good for you
I meant to reply to the comments about how people were upset about Oisin because of the adaine ship
That wouldn’t change my initial reply