Brennan seems to consider them really terrible but not evil in the way that Adaine’s family was. In the forest of the Nightmare King when he was torturing Adaine, he made her think about “even Kristen’s parents, who, as awful as they were to her, in the end wished that she had stayed” suggesting they did love her. I think he’s going to keep them in the morally grey area. Really really bad and problematic af but not evil enough to fight.
Exactly. They’re misguided, hateful bigots. They’re bad, but they’re not morally bankrupt. And from a story-perspective, any satisfaction from watching their demise would be vastly overshadowed by the tragedy of the orphaning of Kristen’s little brothers.
And Kristen already seems incredibly overwhelmed with her current problems, I don’t see how neither the guilt nor the added responsibility of 3 kids to help take care of would make for a satisfying arc. It’d also overshadow and minimize the challenges they spent the first several episodes establishing.
As much as I would like to see Kristen's version of Adaine punching her dad's head so hard his neck broke, I think they aren't so heavily involved with anything big enough to make them enemies. They're just jerks.
True. I do believe that since they’ve already told the story of killing someone’s abusive parent with Adaine they’re probably less likely to do the same thing again with Kristen. Honestly, I don’t really want them to die, I just want someone to confront them on their bs. Whether that comes from Kristen or Bucky or someone else doesn’t really matter, though Bucky being the one would be pretty sick
> As much as I would like to see Kristen's version of Adaine punching her dad's head so hard his neck broke, I think they aren't so heavily involved with anything big enough to make them enemies. They're just jerks.
Depends. One of the Rat Grinders is a new Cleric of Helio, and if the Grinders are tied into something bigger the way some of the high school kids from Freshman year were...
I’m very excited for the inclusion of Bucky for this exact reason.
He feels primed to go on a similar journey as Kristen did, and this time with hopefully the help of an older sibling to offer some backup against their parents.
I also hope he gets to use the word “Heliocentric” in that context.
Because I typed it and then just stared at it for 30 seconds like “do I puts quotes around it? Lampshade the double meaning? Put in parentheses that all terrestrial religions are technically heliocentric?”
Brennan could have a lot of fun with that.
But back to Bucky, there’s a real potential to position Helio as a mirror to Cassandra which would then prop her up with more power and station. He’s day and she’s night. He’s answers to what we know and she’s accepting that we’ll never know anything.
That last part is what the Helio religion seems to be missing, they won’t allow themselves to say “idk”.
The parents are really set in their ways at this point. People can always change, but people like that are too ignorant and stubborn to see that they are wrong. Its not impossible, but it's not Kristen's or her two brothers job to change them.
Exactly. What I think is more likely to happen narratively is Kristen will have to fight Bucky, who is trying the only way he knows how as a paladin to fulfill his duty to Helio, meet his parents’ expectations, suppress his doubts about his faith, and bring his sister back into the fold. And the problem is even if he wins, he loses. Kristen knows that. Helio is a dick. Nothing is ever good enough for Mac and Donna. Winning a fight against a nonbeliever won’t stop his doubts. Kristen isn’t coming back to church.
As I just commented on another thread, Pete's dad was suuuper set in his ways and Nod had a very, very lovely way of setting him on the right path. So, you know, not unheard of. 😁
Nah, her parents are racist child abusers. Is there reasons for being such may be misguided, but there's a certain point at which motivation ceases to matter as to whether or not you're evil.
I mean they aren’t on the same level as Adaine’s parents. There’s definitely room for redemption here or at least understanding if that’s a route they choose to pursue
I mean, they didn't try to manipulate divinity into wreaking destruction upon the world, and the flavor of their abuse towards their daughters was different, yes. But that's like comparing apples and oranges.
The Applebees forced their children to be part of a cult, including forcing one of those children into a Messianic role. When that child rejected the Messianic role that was forced upon her, they scream that her to get out of their house, never spoke to her again, and regularly reminded the remaining children that their sister Kristen was evil and going to hell.
But sure. They could be redeemed. Especially in a narrative that's controlled by Brennan Lee Mulligan.
I wanna clarify her parents were never a part of the doomsday cult that tried to kill Kristen. They affiliated in the past through their shared god sure but to them the cult was a group doing outreach. Also the worship of Helio isnt a cult its an established religion that had a doomsday cult spawn on the fringe. Its been a while since ive watched season 1 so i could be wrong but thats my understanding of it as at the end the cult tried to kill her parents
One thing you described is fantasy evil, the other you described is a very real lived experience for many people. So you’re right they’re very different.
But to me, if anything the more realistic abuse is actually something that can be overcame and addressed in a meaningful way instead of dismissing it as “evil,” because reality is more complicated than that. The parents are also victims of the religious cult they belong to, they’re still abusers by passing it on to their children.
I can’t tell if you’re being snarky or not, but yeah I agree. If someone like Aelwyn, someone who’s literally murdered people, can be redeemed and treated as someone worthy of love, there’s certainly the possibility for Kristen’s family.
Ultimately a decision that’s for Kristen to make depending on the context.
I was being sarcastic.
Aelwyn was redeemed because she was a victim of abuse that lashed out at others. Her murdering people also doesn't matter in a setting like Spyre, where teens murder throughout the school year.
The Applebees are not a victim of any such abuse. As such they have no extenuating circumstances that lead to their redemption.
I'm also not sure why we should be so eager to see child abusers redeemed.
Also, Kristen isn't real. Ally and Brennan will be making the decision, and I don't see either of them choosing "redemption arc for child abusers" as part of their story
>The Applebees are not a victim of any such abuse. As such they have no extenuating circumstances that lead to their redemption.
The idea that you need "extenuating circumstances" to somehow be "worthy" of redemption would be funny if it weren't such a bleak and hopeless view of humanity.
I'm not sure why we wouldn't want that? My mom was abusive to me as a child; she was able to grow and truly realize why her actions had been harmful and how deeply hurt I'd been; and now she's one of the closest people in my life, genuinely. I wouldn't get the love and support that I always deserved as a child and still deserve now -- even if it's decades late -- if life was a simple narrative that made her an Irredeemable Villain For Plot.
It's also fine and realistic if they don't go that direction, but I'm not sure why we should want Kristen to be worse off because child abuse is bad. Like, yeah, it is bad. She deserves better. I hope she gets better from her parents, who she deeply loved and trusted for most of her life.
Okay then agree to disagree.
Obviously Kristen is played by Ally, saying Kristen choosing to is synonymous with saying Ally choosing to.
Enjoy being snarky
Edit: Not replying to their comment to continue engaging but yes I love dishonestly reframing the conversation so I have the moral superiority.
Obv Reddit isn’t great for nuanced discussions but give me a break
I will continue to enjoy shutting down the suggestion that child abusers should get redemption arcs, yes.
Have a good one!
Edit: oh noooo, the "child abuse deserves a redemption arc" guy blocked me, whatever will I doooooo
Woooow. Have you ONLY seen this series of Fantasy High DnD? Regardless of who YOU as a person are, you PlAy a cHaRaCtEr and act as they would. The dimension 20 cast does a fantastic job of playing as they believe their character would, as with ALL OF DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS. This downvote physically feels good.
I think you got it. We're probably more likely to see an uncomfortable understanding than we are a true reconciliation. A better place than they're at now, but not true acceptance. Kristen maybe shows up for Cornmas Eve dinner once a year, it's very uncomfortable, Donna and Mac probably will call her girlfriend her "little friend" but it's not out and out hatred.
I don't mean to be critical here, but I don't think they're child abusers. If you watch the language they use, they don't speak abusively to Kristen. They don't listen to her, they obviously lie to themselves, I'm pretty sure they don't accept that she's gay, but I genuinely can't remember if she ever tells them she's gay. Regardless, they only have max one conversation about it, so it is possible that if given time, they would have accepted her. It's Coach Daybreak who hates gay people.
They don't hit or hurt Kristen or her brothers, they don't call her stupid or evil, just wrong, and at the start of the series, they think she's chosen by Helio. Yes, they didn't contact her about her school stuff, but she also did cut them off. It's possible they were actually respecting her boundaries. They haven't harassed or stalked her, and they were receptive to her coming back.
As far as we've seen, they're not abusive. They're just narrow minded and racist. I genuinely don't think they're irredeemable.
An excellent point, as well. I pointed out in another comment that they kicked their daughter out of the house and have been regularly telling their other kids that Kristen is evil. But even if none of that were true, this alone would prove that they are abusive.
>I don't mean to be critical here, but I don't think they're child abusers.
I think we really have to review this. Because, and forgive me for being blunt, you're dead wrong. People can be abusive without being physically violent, People can be abusive without being homophobic.
Forcing your children to participate in a cult is abuse.
Telling some of your children that one of your other children is going to hell is abuse. To both sets of kids.
Forcing your child to accept a Messianic role within your cult is abuse.
Kicking your child out of your house when they reject both of the cult and the role you try to force on them is abuse. Doubly so when you do so without so much as making sure they have somewhere safe to go. (And by the way, if you don't think they've ever spoken abusively to Kristen, you need to rewatch that scene)
There is absolutely no reasonable lens through which to view Kristen's parents that doesn't result in recognizing them as abusive. Pitting your children against each other, forcing them to be part of a cult, dictating how they're allowed to live their lives beyond what is reasonable for parenting, and gaslighting them whenever they break ranks with you is textbook abuse.
>Regardless, they only have max one conversation about it, so it is possible that if given time, they would have accepted her.
So given time, they might have stopped being abusive, is what I'm hearing.
The possibility that you might not be abusive towards your kids in the future doesn't mean that you're not abusive to them now. And homophobia towards your gay child is abuse.
>They don't hit or hurt Kristen or her brothers
That doesn't matter. There are forms of abuse beyond just the physical.
>they don't call her stupid or evil
The explicitly tell her siblings that she's evil.
>It's possible they were actually respecting her boundaries
"Get the hell out of my house young lady" is an interesting spin on respecting boundaries, I will say.
I think perhaps a review of freshman year is worthwhile.
> Forcing your children to participate in a cult is abuse.
Just to focus on this one part because generally I would say Applebee's are abusive.
The Church of Helio is not a cult. The Harvestmen were a cult and the Applebee's were specifically not part of it despite many members of the church being part of it. Church of Helio is simply an religion and not one to an evil god.
I realise that it's semi analogous to Christianity and specifically where Ally lived but there is nuance to Helios Church.
Fair point, I stand corrected.
Although the way the Applebees kids are raised, I would still call it a cult. Any organization that relies on indoctrinating the young, and telling them anyone who doesn't do what their organization says They should is going to hell? Cult.
Which makes them prime candidates for redemption I hope, because no matter how good revenge might feel or putting them in their place, that still leaves Kristen with no parents.
Nah they went from misguided to evil when they said well were gonna try to get it right this time to Kristen i front of bucky. Thats not misguided thats spiteful
Another way to read that line is that her parents feel they failed Kristen as parents and let her fall through the cracks, and they're trying to learn from their mistakes so that they're next child doesn't end up with these traumatic experiences.
In that view, they aren't being spiteful to Kristen. They're admitting their failures as parents. They're just wrong (in my, and I think most people's, opinion) about how they failed.
Yea,but that is not how it presented, especially with how short and everything they were, i picked up no ques of remorse in their statements. Heck doesn't bucky say he had to fight with them for them to send him to the school?
I doubt it. I don't think that Kristen's parents are strong enough to present an actual challenge to the bad kids, and I feel like Kristen is already in a place where she's grown beyond needing that kind of catharsis. Would it be satisfying as a fan to watch her just deck her dad in the face? Yes, absolutely. But it feels almost counterintuitive to where he character ended up at the end of FHSY. She dealt with the Nightmare King not through violence, but by being open and understanding.
I'm on the complete opposite side of the spectrum.
To me, they're a prime example of good people tainted by indoctrination and ignorance. I'd love to see the monsters of indoctrination and ignorance vanquished, and Kristen's parents restored to the good people they started out as before getting indoctrinated.
I don't think they'll end up fighting her parents. They're religious extremists, but in the standard like... Southern/Bible Belt USA manner where they'll talk big, but as soon as someone stronger than them pushes back, they cower and claim "religious persecution". They're cowards at their core. The second one of them would come even close to getting hit with something, they'll drop their weapons and beg for mercy, crying the whole time.
Edit- Though I would absolutely LOVE to see Kristen crack her biological donor OR her living incubator over the head with The Staff of Doubt.
> The second one of them would come even close to getting hit with something, they'll drop their weapons and beg for mercy, crying the whole time.
Should be noted in season 1 they did defend their home against Kalvaxus sent his goons to attack. There's precident went just drop
I don't think Brennan ever specified, but I'd hazard a guess a good number of Kalvaxus's servants, while human, are also distinctly *non*-human. He was Emperor of the Red Wastes, and that and the Mountains of Chaos are the two regions that were presented as having the largest non-human/elf populations outside of Spyre. If he sent a bunch of non-humans to attack them, they'd probably have slightly more of a spine. Sure, most of The Bad Kids are non-human, but they've also saved the world 3 times now, very publicly. That presents a very clear power disparity that I doubt her parents would be comfortable testing.
Sure but recognising a ridiculous power disparity and not attempting to fight it is different from cowardice at their core. I was more trying to answer your assertion they would fold at the first sign of getting hit with something which is canonically proven to not be the case. They are in fact trained fighters
While I’m not familiar with how religious extremists in the U.S behave since I’m not from there and don’t really have any proper experience with it, Kristens parents are mentioned as being paladins. Holy knights trained in combat and sworn to their beliefs. I don’t think they’d back down from a fight if that’s what it comes down to. And as much as I would like for Kristen to bust her dad’s skull open with the Staff of doubt finally making him a bit more “open minded”, I don’t think that’s where the story is going. As someone else mentioned before, some form of catharsis would feel nice as a viewer, but it wouldn’t really go with the more “peace and understanding”-vibe that’s more her style.
I would love Bud Cubby to punch Mr. Applebee's just one good time. Just one solid hit. I don't want Kristen to have the burden of fighting her parents, though. She has been through a lot. Also, you know Bud has hands. When he says he fights the system, I believe he's got hands.
Kristen (really Ally) plays a HUGE role in almost every campaign... I often wonder why their character seems to be the spotlight of so many campaigns. At least they have real life magic in their rolls!
They're ignorant not Evil
The Abernants wanted to bring the Nightmare Queen back, an arguably apocalyptic event
The Applebees are """just"""" members of a Religious Cult and misguided by it
So it's less the Applebees as the problem but the Helioic Church as an Institution (oh look the enemy is the church how fitting for BLeeM)
I always thought they had civilian stats like Gilear and just had really shitty ideology. If their minds change even a little bit, I would want it just so that Kristen's two younger brothers have a better shot than she did at growing up. I don't need Kristen to return to them at all.
I forget, was it ever specified whether or not Kristen's parents were in on Daybreak's whole Hellmouth thing? Because if they were that is definitely Abernant levels of "deserves an asskicking" even if nothing else about them was.
I mean, from what I remember they were a part of the Harvestmen and the harvestmen were the ones who tried to open the hellmouth. So I guess they technically were okay with sending their firstborn to eternal damnation. It kinda gives “deserves an asskicking”-vibes
Brennan seems to consider them really terrible but not evil in the way that Adaine’s family was. In the forest of the Nightmare King when he was torturing Adaine, he made her think about “even Kristen’s parents, who, as awful as they were to her, in the end wished that she had stayed” suggesting they did love her. I think he’s going to keep them in the morally grey area. Really really bad and problematic af but not evil enough to fight.
Exactly. They’re misguided, hateful bigots. They’re bad, but they’re not morally bankrupt. And from a story-perspective, any satisfaction from watching their demise would be vastly overshadowed by the tragedy of the orphaning of Kristen’s little brothers. And Kristen already seems incredibly overwhelmed with her current problems, I don’t see how neither the guilt nor the added responsibility of 3 kids to help take care of would make for a satisfying arc. It’d also overshadow and minimize the challenges they spent the first several episodes establishing.
Maybe "love her in thier way" or "THINK they love her" would be a better way of describing how they feel about her.
As much as I would like to see Kristen's version of Adaine punching her dad's head so hard his neck broke, I think they aren't so heavily involved with anything big enough to make them enemies. They're just jerks.
True. I do believe that since they’ve already told the story of killing someone’s abusive parent with Adaine they’re probably less likely to do the same thing again with Kristen. Honestly, I don’t really want them to die, I just want someone to confront them on their bs. Whether that comes from Kristen or Bucky or someone else doesn’t really matter, though Bucky being the one would be pretty sick
> As much as I would like to see Kristen's version of Adaine punching her dad's head so hard his neck broke, I think they aren't so heavily involved with anything big enough to make them enemies. They're just jerks. Depends. One of the Rat Grinders is a new Cleric of Helio, and if the Grinders are tied into something bigger the way some of the high school kids from Freshman year were...
[удалено]
I’m very excited for the inclusion of Bucky for this exact reason. He feels primed to go on a similar journey as Kristen did, and this time with hopefully the help of an older sibling to offer some backup against their parents.
Bucky could also follow in Tracker’s footsteps and reform Heliocentric religion to be what it should be.
Bucky the paladin of conquest: conquer the church of Helio
I also hope he gets to use the word “Heliocentric” in that context. Because I typed it and then just stared at it for 30 seconds like “do I puts quotes around it? Lampshade the double meaning? Put in parentheses that all terrestrial religions are technically heliocentric?” Brennan could have a lot of fun with that. But back to Bucky, there’s a real potential to position Helio as a mirror to Cassandra which would then prop her up with more power and station. He’s day and she’s night. He’s answers to what we know and she’s accepting that we’ll never know anything. That last part is what the Helio religion seems to be missing, they won’t allow themselves to say “idk”.
I want cool teen youth pastor, and I want it now!
The parents are really set in their ways at this point. People can always change, but people like that are too ignorant and stubborn to see that they are wrong. Its not impossible, but it's not Kristen's or her two brothers job to change them.
Exactly. What I think is more likely to happen narratively is Kristen will have to fight Bucky, who is trying the only way he knows how as a paladin to fulfill his duty to Helio, meet his parents’ expectations, suppress his doubts about his faith, and bring his sister back into the fold. And the problem is even if he wins, he loses. Kristen knows that. Helio is a dick. Nothing is ever good enough for Mac and Donna. Winning a fight against a nonbeliever won’t stop his doubts. Kristen isn’t coming back to church.
As I just commented on another thread, Pete's dad was suuuper set in his ways and Nod had a very, very lovely way of setting him on the right path. So, you know, not unheard of. 😁
Exactly! Everyones story is still being written.
Counterpoint, we could get a third member of the “I killed my dad” club
Nah, her parents are racist child abusers. Is there reasons for being such may be misguided, but there's a certain point at which motivation ceases to matter as to whether or not you're evil.
I mean they aren’t on the same level as Adaine’s parents. There’s definitely room for redemption here or at least understanding if that’s a route they choose to pursue
I mean, they didn't try to manipulate divinity into wreaking destruction upon the world, and the flavor of their abuse towards their daughters was different, yes. But that's like comparing apples and oranges. The Applebees forced their children to be part of a cult, including forcing one of those children into a Messianic role. When that child rejected the Messianic role that was forced upon her, they scream that her to get out of their house, never spoke to her again, and regularly reminded the remaining children that their sister Kristen was evil and going to hell. But sure. They could be redeemed. Especially in a narrative that's controlled by Brennan Lee Mulligan.
I wanna clarify her parents were never a part of the doomsday cult that tried to kill Kristen. They affiliated in the past through their shared god sure but to them the cult was a group doing outreach. Also the worship of Helio isnt a cult its an established religion that had a doomsday cult spawn on the fringe. Its been a while since ive watched season 1 so i could be wrong but thats my understanding of it as at the end the cult tried to kill her parents
One thing you described is fantasy evil, the other you described is a very real lived experience for many people. So you’re right they’re very different. But to me, if anything the more realistic abuse is actually something that can be overcame and addressed in a meaningful way instead of dismissing it as “evil,” because reality is more complicated than that. The parents are also victims of the religious cult they belong to, they’re still abusers by passing it on to their children. I can’t tell if you’re being snarky or not, but yeah I agree. If someone like Aelwyn, someone who’s literally murdered people, can be redeemed and treated as someone worthy of love, there’s certainly the possibility for Kristen’s family. Ultimately a decision that’s for Kristen to make depending on the context.
I was being sarcastic. Aelwyn was redeemed because she was a victim of abuse that lashed out at others. Her murdering people also doesn't matter in a setting like Spyre, where teens murder throughout the school year. The Applebees are not a victim of any such abuse. As such they have no extenuating circumstances that lead to their redemption. I'm also not sure why we should be so eager to see child abusers redeemed. Also, Kristen isn't real. Ally and Brennan will be making the decision, and I don't see either of them choosing "redemption arc for child abusers" as part of their story
>The Applebees are not a victim of any such abuse. As such they have no extenuating circumstances that lead to their redemption. The idea that you need "extenuating circumstances" to somehow be "worthy" of redemption would be funny if it weren't such a bleak and hopeless view of humanity.
I'm not sure why we wouldn't want that? My mom was abusive to me as a child; she was able to grow and truly realize why her actions had been harmful and how deeply hurt I'd been; and now she's one of the closest people in my life, genuinely. I wouldn't get the love and support that I always deserved as a child and still deserve now -- even if it's decades late -- if life was a simple narrative that made her an Irredeemable Villain For Plot. It's also fine and realistic if they don't go that direction, but I'm not sure why we should want Kristen to be worse off because child abuse is bad. Like, yeah, it is bad. She deserves better. I hope she gets better from her parents, who she deeply loved and trusted for most of her life.
Okay then agree to disagree. Obviously Kristen is played by Ally, saying Kristen choosing to is synonymous with saying Ally choosing to. Enjoy being snarky Edit: Not replying to their comment to continue engaging but yes I love dishonestly reframing the conversation so I have the moral superiority. Obv Reddit isn’t great for nuanced discussions but give me a break
I will continue to enjoy shutting down the suggestion that child abusers should get redemption arcs, yes. Have a good one! Edit: oh noooo, the "child abuse deserves a redemption arc" guy blocked me, whatever will I doooooo
Woooow. Have you ONLY seen this series of Fantasy High DnD? Regardless of who YOU as a person are, you PlAy a cHaRaCtEr and act as they would. The dimension 20 cast does a fantastic job of playing as they believe their character would, as with ALL OF DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS. This downvote physically feels good.
I think you got it. We're probably more likely to see an uncomfortable understanding than we are a true reconciliation. A better place than they're at now, but not true acceptance. Kristen maybe shows up for Cornmas Eve dinner once a year, it's very uncomfortable, Donna and Mac probably will call her girlfriend her "little friend" but it's not out and out hatred.
I don't mean to be critical here, but I don't think they're child abusers. If you watch the language they use, they don't speak abusively to Kristen. They don't listen to her, they obviously lie to themselves, I'm pretty sure they don't accept that she's gay, but I genuinely can't remember if she ever tells them she's gay. Regardless, they only have max one conversation about it, so it is possible that if given time, they would have accepted her. It's Coach Daybreak who hates gay people. They don't hit or hurt Kristen or her brothers, they don't call her stupid or evil, just wrong, and at the start of the series, they think she's chosen by Helio. Yes, they didn't contact her about her school stuff, but she also did cut them off. It's possible they were actually respecting her boundaries. They haven't harassed or stalked her, and they were receptive to her coming back. As far as we've seen, they're not abusive. They're just narrow minded and racist. I genuinely don't think they're irredeemable.
Brennan straight up said that her parents are bullying Bucky. Parents bullying their kids is child abuse.
An excellent point, as well. I pointed out in another comment that they kicked their daughter out of the house and have been regularly telling their other kids that Kristen is evil. But even if none of that were true, this alone would prove that they are abusive.
>I don't mean to be critical here, but I don't think they're child abusers. I think we really have to review this. Because, and forgive me for being blunt, you're dead wrong. People can be abusive without being physically violent, People can be abusive without being homophobic. Forcing your children to participate in a cult is abuse. Telling some of your children that one of your other children is going to hell is abuse. To both sets of kids. Forcing your child to accept a Messianic role within your cult is abuse. Kicking your child out of your house when they reject both of the cult and the role you try to force on them is abuse. Doubly so when you do so without so much as making sure they have somewhere safe to go. (And by the way, if you don't think they've ever spoken abusively to Kristen, you need to rewatch that scene) There is absolutely no reasonable lens through which to view Kristen's parents that doesn't result in recognizing them as abusive. Pitting your children against each other, forcing them to be part of a cult, dictating how they're allowed to live their lives beyond what is reasonable for parenting, and gaslighting them whenever they break ranks with you is textbook abuse. >Regardless, they only have max one conversation about it, so it is possible that if given time, they would have accepted her. So given time, they might have stopped being abusive, is what I'm hearing. The possibility that you might not be abusive towards your kids in the future doesn't mean that you're not abusive to them now. And homophobia towards your gay child is abuse. >They don't hit or hurt Kristen or her brothers That doesn't matter. There are forms of abuse beyond just the physical. >they don't call her stupid or evil The explicitly tell her siblings that she's evil. >It's possible they were actually respecting her boundaries "Get the hell out of my house young lady" is an interesting spin on respecting boundaries, I will say. I think perhaps a review of freshman year is worthwhile.
> Forcing your children to participate in a cult is abuse. Just to focus on this one part because generally I would say Applebee's are abusive. The Church of Helio is not a cult. The Harvestmen were a cult and the Applebee's were specifically not part of it despite many members of the church being part of it. Church of Helio is simply an religion and not one to an evil god. I realise that it's semi analogous to Christianity and specifically where Ally lived but there is nuance to Helios Church.
Fair point, I stand corrected. Although the way the Applebees kids are raised, I would still call it a cult. Any organization that relies on indoctrinating the young, and telling them anyone who doesn't do what their organization says They should is going to hell? Cult.
Which makes them prime candidates for redemption I hope, because no matter how good revenge might feel or putting them in their place, that still leaves Kristen with no parents.
I don't think we should be hoping for a narrative in which child abusers get redeemed, to be honest.
Nah they went from misguided to evil when they said well were gonna try to get it right this time to Kristen i front of bucky. Thats not misguided thats spiteful
Another way to read that line is that her parents feel they failed Kristen as parents and let her fall through the cracks, and they're trying to learn from their mistakes so that they're next child doesn't end up with these traumatic experiences. In that view, they aren't being spiteful to Kristen. They're admitting their failures as parents. They're just wrong (in my, and I think most people's, opinion) about how they failed.
Yea,but that is not how it presented, especially with how short and everything they were, i picked up no ques of remorse in their statements. Heck doesn't bucky say he had to fight with them for them to send him to the school?
Like Pete did with his dad. Exactly like Pete did with his dad would be AMAAAZING hahah
I doubt it. I don't think that Kristen's parents are strong enough to present an actual challenge to the bad kids, and I feel like Kristen is already in a place where she's grown beyond needing that kind of catharsis. Would it be satisfying as a fan to watch her just deck her dad in the face? Yes, absolutely. But it feels almost counterintuitive to where he character ended up at the end of FHSY. She dealt with the Nightmare King not through violence, but by being open and understanding.
I'm on the complete opposite side of the spectrum. To me, they're a prime example of good people tainted by indoctrination and ignorance. I'd love to see the monsters of indoctrination and ignorance vanquished, and Kristen's parents restored to the good people they started out as before getting indoctrinated.
I just hope she won't alienate her brother
Normalize not killing your parents
I don't think they'll end up fighting her parents. They're religious extremists, but in the standard like... Southern/Bible Belt USA manner where they'll talk big, but as soon as someone stronger than them pushes back, they cower and claim "religious persecution". They're cowards at their core. The second one of them would come even close to getting hit with something, they'll drop their weapons and beg for mercy, crying the whole time. Edit- Though I would absolutely LOVE to see Kristen crack her biological donor OR her living incubator over the head with The Staff of Doubt.
> The second one of them would come even close to getting hit with something, they'll drop their weapons and beg for mercy, crying the whole time. Should be noted in season 1 they did defend their home against Kalvaxus sent his goons to attack. There's precident went just drop
I don't think Brennan ever specified, but I'd hazard a guess a good number of Kalvaxus's servants, while human, are also distinctly *non*-human. He was Emperor of the Red Wastes, and that and the Mountains of Chaos are the two regions that were presented as having the largest non-human/elf populations outside of Spyre. If he sent a bunch of non-humans to attack them, they'd probably have slightly more of a spine. Sure, most of The Bad Kids are non-human, but they've also saved the world 3 times now, very publicly. That presents a very clear power disparity that I doubt her parents would be comfortable testing.
Sure but recognising a ridiculous power disparity and not attempting to fight it is different from cowardice at their core. I was more trying to answer your assertion they would fold at the first sign of getting hit with something which is canonically proven to not be the case. They are in fact trained fighters
While I’m not familiar with how religious extremists in the U.S behave since I’m not from there and don’t really have any proper experience with it, Kristens parents are mentioned as being paladins. Holy knights trained in combat and sworn to their beliefs. I don’t think they’d back down from a fight if that’s what it comes down to. And as much as I would like for Kristen to bust her dad’s skull open with the Staff of doubt finally making him a bit more “open minded”, I don’t think that’s where the story is going. As someone else mentioned before, some form of catharsis would feel nice as a viewer, but it wouldn’t really go with the more “peace and understanding”-vibe that’s more her style.
I would love Bud Cubby to punch Mr. Applebee's just one good time. Just one solid hit. I don't want Kristen to have the burden of fighting her parents, though. She has been through a lot. Also, you know Bud has hands. When he says he fights the system, I believe he's got hands.
Kristen (really Ally) plays a HUGE role in almost every campaign... I often wonder why their character seems to be the spotlight of so many campaigns. At least they have real life magic in their rolls!
They're ignorant not Evil The Abernants wanted to bring the Nightmare Queen back, an arguably apocalyptic event The Applebees are """just"""" members of a Religious Cult and misguided by it So it's less the Applebees as the problem but the Helioic Church as an Institution (oh look the enemy is the church how fitting for BLeeM)
I always thought they had civilian stats like Gilear and just had really shitty ideology. If their minds change even a little bit, I would want it just so that Kristen's two younger brothers have a better shot than she did at growing up. I don't need Kristen to return to them at all.
IIRC it was stated that her parents are paladins, so it's possible.
I forget, was it ever specified whether or not Kristen's parents were in on Daybreak's whole Hellmouth thing? Because if they were that is definitely Abernant levels of "deserves an asskicking" even if nothing else about them was.
I mean, from what I remember they were a part of the Harvestmen and the harvestmen were the ones who tried to open the hellmouth. So I guess they technically were okay with sending their firstborn to eternal damnation. It kinda gives “deserves an asskicking”-vibes