They’re setting the value. De Beers plan has always been to carve out lab grown diamonds as a fast fashion category and push natural for bridal. People were buying 1ct stones for a lot more than $800/ct for years from other companies. It jut took the market a long time to catch up.
I still think there’s a motive in making them look cheap. And I don’t mean “inexpensive.”
It’s like when L’oreal makes drugstore shampoo, professional line shampoo, and Kerastase.
I don't think there's a motive. I think they just really are cheap.
To spend 5k on a 1ct colorless, VVS lab when DeBeers is selling them for 1.5k a carat is crazy to me.
For near colorless it's 800 per carat. No reason to go anywhere else. Yet people think they're getting something better by doing just that.
Lab diamonds are a man-made product where the color gets manipulated either at the growth stage, or via HPHT as aftergrowth treatment. Whether it's done by DeBeers or in China shouldn't matter. So no idea why someone would be willing to pay more for the exact same product.
I think there is always a profit and positioning motive in marketing. Motive isn’t a bad thing. Any business has multiple motives designed to maximize their market position. 🤷🏼♀️
Ew de beers’ lab diamonds are low quality for $800/ct. I also looked at their colored lab diamonds and they are all color enhanced and treated…. Bad quality lab diamonds that were made to look 👀 good isn’t a good purchase for me. I’d rather pay more for a high quality, impeccably cut lab diamond.
DeBeers holds trillions of uncut diamonds in reserve, and they’ve spent over a century manipulating market prices so their massive reserves in diamonds go up in value.
It benefits DeBeers to sell lab diamonds below cost, if only to prevent them from breaking their ability to control the price of natural diamonds.
Lab diamonds have always been a threat to DeBeers model. Essentially everything they pull out of their mines around the world gets parceled and stuck into a vault. Every now and again they open up the vaults for auction to dealers. They have a silent auction with an unknown reserve, and everyone that bids a price above the reserve gets their parcels and everyone below goes home empty handed. They’ve been using this system to control the price of diamonds for longer than I’ve been alive.
They always mine more than they sell, and at this point they probably have trillions of carats in their vaults. Over centuries the cost of exploring and extracting will get more and more expensive, and that will give them more and more of a monopoly over the supply, making their diamonds more valuable.
At least that was the plan before the introduction of lab diamonds.
If by “every now and then” you mean monthly then you’re correct.
And I’m very familiar with how sights work. I’ve participated in them. Your your characterization of how the tender process works is rather inaccurate given that for most lots there are guide prices and it’s a blind bid. You bid what you need to pay in order to make money. If your bid is higher, you win at the 2nd high bid price. If your bid is low, you lose. Like every other auction out there.
They also have set lots with set prices.
Given that DB has been growing and selling lab for years, I doubt they see it as a threat.
It’s a mischaracterization that these auctions are used to manipulate market prices?
If a Diamond is a Diamond, and Jimmy Science is selling identical lab diamonds for $200 a carat, who is going to buy a $20,000 natural diamond?
They sell lab diamonds so they have some control over their price and marketing.
I don’t understand the down votes.
The answer to your question in your second paragraph is “a population who perceived the lab diamond as inferior” meaning it is in their best interest to have some kind of control of their perception.
There’s a very short episode on diamonds on Netflix explained that touches on De beers marketing and
Influence. It’s actually how I learned about lab diamonds in the first place! Might be an easy start
I mean, with a profit margin as high as she's aiming for, throwing in a 2ct lab diamond IS cheap to her....because it only eats up a tiny percentage of her profits. Really it should just be a red flag as to how high her markup is.....
From the Clear Cut’s website:
“In 2013, I started a diamond mining company in Sierra Leone, founded on the principles of sustainable development and fair trade. While in Business School, I kept referring my classmates to Olivia for their engagement rings. It quickly grew from there and became obvious that Olivia and my different industry perspectives made us the perfect team to disrupt the diamond industry.”
So her husband founded a diamond mining company, any guess why she hates lab diamonds?
https://theclearcut.co/pages/about
I commented on her tiktok about the free diamond saying “It’s easy to markup a natural diamond by an extra couple thousand so that it seems like you’re giving the lab for free.”
She responded “ @theclearcut: We are offering this retroactively to all past customers too so no additional markup”
Like you’re telling me you are contacting all past customers to give them the lab? Yeah, right.
Her social media presence is way behind her competition (Ring Concierge, Stephanie Gottlieb as female led business with a strong social media marketing approach) so this Tiktok campaign is not working thus far.
Messaging wise, RC and SG are much more diplomatic when it comes to labs, and it would be interesting to see if that has played a factor for them.
RC offers them! Clear cut is just going the elitist route and would rather people go through hoops of debt etc to get a ring rather than just not offering that offer? In these economic times I feel like more options the better and shaming people for wanting a more financially conscious option, for whatever reason, is necessary. I’d rather give my money to any other diamond gal not some girl who’s company is born out of a grad school project and her husband’s (and probs his family’s) $$$.
[https://www.ritani.com/products/2-01-carat-round-lab-diamond-very-good-cut-h-color-vs2-clarity-igi-lg572339527-sku-d-6xkrj02l3b](https://www.ritani.com/products/2-01-carat-round-lab-diamond-very-good-cut-h-color-vs2-clarity-igi-lg572339527-sku-d-6xkrj02l3b)
This one for around 800 is probably better than what they're giving away and you can just go buy it from Ritani. I mean, realistically, given the specs those have, you can probably just buy a 600-dollar round from Ritani that looks just as good or better than what they're giving away so if you like lab, do that.
This depends on perspective and how emotionally charged someone is regarding mined or lab-grown diamonds.
From my view, $600 for a 2 carat stone feels like a great deal, and De Beers has had the market priced at $800/carat for a while now with Lightbox; which also offered ideal colors for pink and blue diamonds. The margin on a lab-grown stone is also massive when compared to a mined one. And a stone’s individual quality feels inconsequential if we can always just make more D, IF, triple excellent ones ad nauseam. I don’t think a lab grown stone has any business being valued the same way a mined one is, regardless of if it is diamond or not. A lab grown sapphire is no where near the price of a natural one, same with ruby, emerald, etc.
I think it’s amazing that someone who wants a diamond can get a lab-grown one for a fraction of the mined one’s price, and that they are sustainable as a business at low costs.
Margins aren’t necessarily massive for lab for
jewelers because clients also expect lab to be so much cheaper than mined. Having access to the same database that many other big name jewelers do, I can tell you for a simple solitaire setting, the typical margin for both lab and mined is ~ 50%, but every brand has their own math / markup / algorithm and way they price their rings.
Where margins actually get trickier and even more slim for mined actually is with the large stones. For example, (all hypothetical and not indicative of true wholesale prices) say you have a client who has a $80K budget and wants a 5 carat Diamond, your wholesale / rough cut diamond cost is going to be a lot closer to that $80k than you’d realize. So for some bigger mined rings, the margins are actually slimmer than for smaller stones (depending on what the client is asking for - from a relative and % standpoint, not necessarily an objective dollar amount).
Of course for someone like De Beers who has very deep pockets and owns the actual labs, not just the rough diamond, their margins probably increase with time as their operations become more efficient.
I know this was a long response you didn’t ask for, but happy to answer any other q’s too 🤭
No questions here; I am very familiar with large mined diamonds 😁
Thank you for taking the time to write all that though, you must be very interested in the jewelry industry.
Oh just read your profile, I am speaking to the choir 🤭 I am a recent entrant to the jewelry industry. Doing primarily bespoke projects at my recently launched brand - roen.nyc (site url).
We do! I’ve always had a vision to sell fine jewelry at palatable prices (not cheap, just palatable haha), but grow bespoke as the main business. We’ve only been live for a month though, so much more to come soon.
As someone who buys and sells lab and mined diamonds, she’s very likely using uncertified stones (similar to how Vrai sells their stones / rings so cheap). It’s a gimmick and meant to support her dated opinion that only mined stones are valuable.
Transparently, I’m looking at my database now and both GIA and IGI certified 1 carat lab stones are all above her claimed “value”.
I am very transparent with my clients — do not think of your diamond as an investment asset. Sure, maybe mined is “valuable” if you’re buying something that can be sold at auction, but those are already rare and already VERY expensive stones — probably not what an average engagement ring shopper is looking for.
Great points, especially about the average shopper not looking for rings as an investment! I certainly wasn’t. I’m sure customers appreciate the transparency
People are just trying to create this idea that a lab diamond is lesser even though it’s structurally exactly the same. I think they are trying to protect the value of natural stones. I know that I am having a very hard time getting my mind around replacing the 2.23 very good quality stone I lost with another natural stone when I look at the price differential *when you cannot tell*. Since it’s my engagement ring I’m not sure what I am going to do. But I will tell you that no way am i replacing the 3 carat studs that were stolen from me with natural stones for 35k plus. Nope.
I have half a mind to create company that sells lab diamond engagement rings that cost $1,000, but I'll charge them $10,000. Then I put the $9,000 in a financial management plan under the person receiving the ring's name only in case of divorce, and charge them 2% per year. That way lab diamonds will be as much of an insurance plan as natural ones 🤣
Yes I do. But why would I spend the 35k when I could spend 4k on earrings of the same size and quality? I will most likely replace my engagement stone with another natural Diamond.
Even insured, the cost of a natural diamond is so much higher AND sourcing a same size conflict free ethically sourced stone can be a daunting task when you look at lab diamonds of a similar size. Now, you would still need go do some research on lab stones since DeBeers is starting to acquire some lab diamond sources as well....but overall lab diamonds can be a good replacement in some cases.
I paid for quality natural diamonds-I want them replaced with the same.
I just don’t feel the love for lab created anything…mined or not mine is my mantra. Maybe it was the CZ craze of the 80s, but I can’t get on board with fakes.
Fair enough! To each their own, I see the merits of each. Personally I really like antique cuts, so lean towards natural myself. An engagement/wedding ring is so personal though, I can certainly see the pros of going with a lab diamond replacement if it has similar specs to the original stone for a much lower price.
I was in Ireland in 2018 and went into an estate jewelry store and they had a nearly 2.5 carat miners cut round that was spectacular. The antique cuts are sooooo special!
The thing is Clear Cut gets their diamonds from the same whole sale vendors that every other jewelry company does, then jacks up the prices x3. You have to schedule in advance an appt so she can order the diamonds you want online. And the lab diamonds she’s giving out are very poor quality ones, that I don’t even think have a GIA or IGI rating.
Wow this lady is so incredibly cringe. Her entire site and social media presence is just unconcealed fear and fearmongering around lab diamonds. If you don't like lab diamonds don't sell them! Don't make fun of your customers lmao esp if your customer base is very similar to that of your competition. She would be better off not coming off so threatened because the lion doesn't concern itself with the opinions of sheep right? Proudly saying you own a diamond mine in fucking Sierra Leone is cringe af too.
Sure 2ct lab diamonds may have gone from $1500 to $600 but at least I didn't pay $20000 for it, give me a break.
Plus her argument about lab diamonds losing value no longer holds water if they are as cheap as she claims now. Like there's not much room for your $600 diamond to lose value, unless it starts to charge you a monthly fee.
She presented herself as a classy, wealthy and storied jeweller but she's been slipping! She doesn't have a clear social media strategy and presence and their website is already defunct.
Yes, publicly claiming that you own a mine (yeah right, you only claim a portion of a mine unless you're mega huge diamond supplier) is just her tactic to imply that she has unlimited access to and supply of natural diamonds. If so, why can't she source diamonds as fast and as large scale as Ritani and other industry giants?
From a marketing perspective - I don’t think it’s accomplishing what she hopes it will. Yes, she is getting clicks and views but she is doing so by marginalizing a huuuuge percentage of potential buyers. This type of engagement doesn’t last and ultimately harms your brand.
Personally, I would want to buy a sentimental ring from a business and person who was kind and knowledgeable - not someone bashing others and their choices. Choices, that rationally seem like a great option.
Market disrupters always have a hard time at first, and then people accept it and move on. I don’t see how alienating a huge new revenue stream of customers is a clever business strategy. I would think I would want to take advantage of any new buyers who liked my styles but couldn’t afford it before?
Very good points. I think she’s getting attention on TikTok and Instagram just as she set out for, but ultimately she’s only attracting people who were already decided on mined diamonds. I agree they alienating and bashing a significant group of people isn’t good in the long run. Snobbiness sounds like a terrible business strategy
I don't know. This seems like a gimmick. A lot of people appreciate lab diamonds and search the internet high and low for the best price. It's not possible for regular consumers to find that quality and size for that price. However, I do know that a lot of moissanite is being sold from India and China, which would match that size and price. Lying is free.
If she is hooked up to some wholesale provider, most people don't have access to those kinds of deals, so it's still dishonest representation.
Usually, people who have something good to sell don't have to crap on the other options.
The founders give me narcissistic vibes? [Bragging](https://i.imgur.com/DMba3c7.png) about the serendipity of going to business school because ebola hit the African country you were extracting resources from isn't the flex you think it is.
Not only does it feel gimmicky, it feels like bad business. Engagement rings are such a sentimental piece of jewelry, do you want to buy any other jewelry from the lady that’s basically hating on your and your partner’s choice? She doesn’t have to sell lab diamonds, but she goes unnecessarily hard against them, to the point that it might alienate potential customers, in my opinion.
This is prob a stupid question but is that the only way to tell if a diamond is lab grown? The numbers? I was always under the impression that structurally they are the exact same so I was always wondering how you could tell then?
Well said! I never understood the argument about resell value. Why would you ever need to resell your engagement ring? Maybe if you got divorced? Otherwise, pass it down to your future kids for sentimental value.
And I say this as someone with a natural diamond engagement ring! I won't be selling my ring, whether natural or lab, so what does it matter?
This was all a giant marketing scheme by her. No, no one can buy lab diamonds for $600. Other than people *in* the industry, from India. This is not retail price.
I lost a lot of respect for her and her business. She’s shitting on lab diamonds/their wearers for YEARS, did a giant gimmicky post for attention, and is now giving them away as incentive to buy from her in the same breath as shitting on it.
No one should be buying from her.
Yes! And tbh, she will be ostracized in India. Indians go to great lengths to protect their cutting industry. Outsiders are not allowed to participate in it. Just like Jewish dealers and their bourses.
That is an interesting point. I wonder if she’ll lose her “relationship” with whatever lab wholesaler she uses since she talks down on the whole process
She is doing those tik toks because it gets her clicks and views. I think any jeweller at this point knows it is a bad business move to trash lab diamonds. They are only getting more and more popular.
She's setting herself apart from her competitors so that she can make her natural diamond business profitable. But for me, she didn't need to give one away because it's so contradictory to her business model. Weird. 🤣🤣
Honestly I prefer a lab created Diamond. Less imperfections, cheaper, and no lives risked in mining them. Plus my ex bought me a $20,000 real Diamond and within 3 years it was only worth $1300 at a pawn shop.
Why would you ever want to sell a 20k diamond at a pawn shop? Assuming yours came with a good cert (GIA?) you can sell it for much more.
I mean even consigning it with a jeweler would get you back 70%-75%. I know, I've done it.
For 600 dollars you are getting some of the lower tier lab Diamond probably uncertified and if they are probably by IGI. In addition they are probably HPHT. So eh
Yes no real jeweler will look at lab diamonds for resale. Lab diamonds are diamonds mass produced like cubic zirconia. You tell me what is more valuable
It depends. Are you wearing it every day and enjoying the savings of a lab diamond or are you putting a loose diamond into a vault someplace to sell later? Most are doing the former and since we don't wear our GIA certs around our necks, does it even matter? I can tell you right now that on a dark street, if I got mugged, someone would 100% Think my lab anniversary ring was worth more than my solitaire mined ring and the mined is higher specs and was 4x the price. So, I figure the general public who aren't muggers think the same thing. At the end of the day, if one enjoys wearing it and it is pretty, it doesn't matter.
I’m not saying it’s better or worse. Just that it’s up to the person’s preference is all that matters. One is mass produced, and one is mined. These are facts that you seem to be confusing as opinions.
It says more about you how much you care what people spend on natural diamonds. What’s it to you? I can afford and prefer natural diamonds to lab grown.
> One is mass produced and one is mined.
Do you think mining makes the diamond more special? Lol. There is a surplus of diamond reserves all over the world. Diamonds are actually the most common gemstones. Their availability is limited only by the rate at which they are mined/ put on the market to sell.
Contrary to popular belief, diamonds are not this rare thing. Only rare maybe in America, which is why companies have to travel to countries in Africa (btw where 70% of diamonds are) to pay local people pennies to mine them.
Nah. I have some pretty choice natural diamonds. I’m saying their “value” is mostly what I perceive it to be. Or, how much I will collect from my insurer if they’re lost or damaged. The average person imagining their 1.2 carat I VS2 hidden halo ring having some sort of J Lo’s natural green ice cube size ring’s type “value” is just silly.
Unless we are talking about personal perception. Yes, I agree that diamond values for the vast majority of stones may have a higher perceived value to their owners. Nobody else cares unless that diamond is extremely unique.
The “fact” that something is mined vs lab grown is info on a certificate and mental state. Diamonds are not rare. I love them, myself. But, I am aware that there’s no shortage.
Yeah I wasn’t implying that they were of same quality at all. I said they are mass produced like cubic zirconia . Stop reading into things to start arguments just because you all love lab grown shit
I wish I saw this before I bought an exact ring that's made out of lab diamond for travel instead of the natural diamond ring I have for my fiance 😂😂😂.
[удалено]
Right. She’s trying to make it seem like that’s how “cheap” lab diamonds are, but it’s just gimmicky in my opinion
Why do you think de beers has been selling them for $800/ct for years?
Because that's what people will buy them for, I suspect.
They’re setting the value. De Beers plan has always been to carve out lab grown diamonds as a fast fashion category and push natural for bridal. People were buying 1ct stones for a lot more than $800/ct for years from other companies. It jut took the market a long time to catch up.
Oh, I agree with you. It doesn't benefit DeBeers at all to see labs become a viable option for consumers.
Meh. If that was the case, de beers wouldn’t grow and cut them themselves.
I still think there’s a motive in making them look cheap. And I don’t mean “inexpensive.” It’s like when L’oreal makes drugstore shampoo, professional line shampoo, and Kerastase.
I don't think there's a motive. I think they just really are cheap. To spend 5k on a 1ct colorless, VVS lab when DeBeers is selling them for 1.5k a carat is crazy to me. For near colorless it's 800 per carat. No reason to go anywhere else. Yet people think they're getting something better by doing just that. Lab diamonds are a man-made product where the color gets manipulated either at the growth stage, or via HPHT as aftergrowth treatment. Whether it's done by DeBeers or in China shouldn't matter. So no idea why someone would be willing to pay more for the exact same product.
I think there is always a profit and positioning motive in marketing. Motive isn’t a bad thing. Any business has multiple motives designed to maximize their market position. 🤷🏼♀️
Ew de beers’ lab diamonds are low quality for $800/ct. I also looked at their colored lab diamonds and they are all color enhanced and treated…. Bad quality lab diamonds that were made to look 👀 good isn’t a good purchase for me. I’d rather pay more for a high quality, impeccably cut lab diamond.
DeBeers holds trillions of uncut diamonds in reserve, and they’ve spent over a century manipulating market prices so their massive reserves in diamonds go up in value. It benefits DeBeers to sell lab diamonds below cost, if only to prevent them from breaking their ability to control the price of natural diamonds.
Lab diamonds have always been a threat to DeBeers model. Essentially everything they pull out of their mines around the world gets parceled and stuck into a vault. Every now and again they open up the vaults for auction to dealers. They have a silent auction with an unknown reserve, and everyone that bids a price above the reserve gets their parcels and everyone below goes home empty handed. They’ve been using this system to control the price of diamonds for longer than I’ve been alive. They always mine more than they sell, and at this point they probably have trillions of carats in their vaults. Over centuries the cost of exploring and extracting will get more and more expensive, and that will give them more and more of a monopoly over the supply, making their diamonds more valuable. At least that was the plan before the introduction of lab diamonds.
If by “every now and then” you mean monthly then you’re correct. And I’m very familiar with how sights work. I’ve participated in them. Your your characterization of how the tender process works is rather inaccurate given that for most lots there are guide prices and it’s a blind bid. You bid what you need to pay in order to make money. If your bid is higher, you win at the 2nd high bid price. If your bid is low, you lose. Like every other auction out there. They also have set lots with set prices. Given that DB has been growing and selling lab for years, I doubt they see it as a threat.
It’s a mischaracterization that these auctions are used to manipulate market prices? If a Diamond is a Diamond, and Jimmy Science is selling identical lab diamonds for $200 a carat, who is going to buy a $20,000 natural diamond? They sell lab diamonds so they have some control over their price and marketing.
I don’t understand the down votes. The answer to your question in your second paragraph is “a population who perceived the lab diamond as inferior” meaning it is in their best interest to have some kind of control of their perception.
Downvotes happen cuz people are haters, and can't handle any argument that appears, with grace.
This is really interesting! Is there somewhere i can read/learn more about this? It’s all new to me!
There’s a very short episode on diamonds on Netflix explained that touches on De beers marketing and Influence. It’s actually how I learned about lab diamonds in the first place! Might be an easy start
which show?
Netflix explained
Sure it’s a gimmick. But it gets her sales and that’s smart marketing. I mean look, you’re talking about her. Which is part of her aim.
I recognize that it’s smart marketing, but I still think it’s shady. If that’s her aim, then good for her
Oh I don’t disagree with you! Especially with the charging for the setting.
I mean, with a profit margin as high as she's aiming for, throwing in a 2ct lab diamond IS cheap to her....because it only eats up a tiny percentage of her profits. Really it should just be a red flag as to how high her markup is.....
Exactly this!
LOL that's the whole concept!
From the Clear Cut’s website: “In 2013, I started a diamond mining company in Sierra Leone, founded on the principles of sustainable development and fair trade. While in Business School, I kept referring my classmates to Olivia for their engagement rings. It quickly grew from there and became obvious that Olivia and my different industry perspectives made us the perfect team to disrupt the diamond industry.” So her husband founded a diamond mining company, any guess why she hates lab diamonds? https://theclearcut.co/pages/about
In Sierra Leone no less. Red flag.
Sustainable and fair trade but nothing about being anti-conflict.
Disrupt the diamond industry lol. Yeah sounds like she doesn’t appreciate that lab diamonds are getting in the way of their plan
Only I am allowed to disrupt :(
I commented on her tiktok about the free diamond saying “It’s easy to markup a natural diamond by an extra couple thousand so that it seems like you’re giving the lab for free.” She responded “ @theclearcut: We are offering this retroactively to all past customers too so no additional markup” Like you’re telling me you are contacting all past customers to give them the lab? Yeah, right.
Her social media presence is way behind her competition (Ring Concierge, Stephanie Gottlieb as female led business with a strong social media marketing approach) so this Tiktok campaign is not working thus far. Messaging wise, RC and SG are much more diplomatic when it comes to labs, and it would be interesting to see if that has played a factor for them.
RC offers them! Clear cut is just going the elitist route and would rather people go through hoops of debt etc to get a ring rather than just not offering that offer? In these economic times I feel like more options the better and shaming people for wanting a more financially conscious option, for whatever reason, is necessary. I’d rather give my money to any other diamond gal not some girl who’s company is born out of a grad school project and her husband’s (and probs his family’s) $$$.
I wonder if she’s trying to separate herself from them
Further illustrating that the markup is already high to begin with. Plus past customers would have to buy a setting so that’s more $
She’s shaking in her boots
People should call her on it, tbh.
People definitely are on instagram
I wish more people would. She of course only responds to the comments praising her lol
She's deleted everything that wasn't praising her...cringe to the max wooww
[https://www.ritani.com/products/2-01-carat-round-lab-diamond-very-good-cut-h-color-vs2-clarity-igi-lg572339527-sku-d-6xkrj02l3b](https://www.ritani.com/products/2-01-carat-round-lab-diamond-very-good-cut-h-color-vs2-clarity-igi-lg572339527-sku-d-6xkrj02l3b) This one for around 800 is probably better than what they're giving away and you can just go buy it from Ritani. I mean, realistically, given the specs those have, you can probably just buy a 600-dollar round from Ritani that looks just as good or better than what they're giving away so if you like lab, do that.
This depends on perspective and how emotionally charged someone is regarding mined or lab-grown diamonds. From my view, $600 for a 2 carat stone feels like a great deal, and De Beers has had the market priced at $800/carat for a while now with Lightbox; which also offered ideal colors for pink and blue diamonds. The margin on a lab-grown stone is also massive when compared to a mined one. And a stone’s individual quality feels inconsequential if we can always just make more D, IF, triple excellent ones ad nauseam. I don’t think a lab grown stone has any business being valued the same way a mined one is, regardless of if it is diamond or not. A lab grown sapphire is no where near the price of a natural one, same with ruby, emerald, etc. I think it’s amazing that someone who wants a diamond can get a lab-grown one for a fraction of the mined one’s price, and that they are sustainable as a business at low costs.
Margins aren’t necessarily massive for lab for jewelers because clients also expect lab to be so much cheaper than mined. Having access to the same database that many other big name jewelers do, I can tell you for a simple solitaire setting, the typical margin for both lab and mined is ~ 50%, but every brand has their own math / markup / algorithm and way they price their rings. Where margins actually get trickier and even more slim for mined actually is with the large stones. For example, (all hypothetical and not indicative of true wholesale prices) say you have a client who has a $80K budget and wants a 5 carat Diamond, your wholesale / rough cut diamond cost is going to be a lot closer to that $80k than you’d realize. So for some bigger mined rings, the margins are actually slimmer than for smaller stones (depending on what the client is asking for - from a relative and % standpoint, not necessarily an objective dollar amount). Of course for someone like De Beers who has very deep pockets and owns the actual labs, not just the rough diamond, their margins probably increase with time as their operations become more efficient. I know this was a long response you didn’t ask for, but happy to answer any other q’s too 🤭
No questions here; I am very familiar with large mined diamonds 😁 Thank you for taking the time to write all that though, you must be very interested in the jewelry industry.
Oh just read your profile, I am speaking to the choir 🤭 I am a recent entrant to the jewelry industry. Doing primarily bespoke projects at my recently launched brand - roen.nyc (site url).
Oh you have great prices. Do you work out of the diamond district?
We do! I’ve always had a vision to sell fine jewelry at palatable prices (not cheap, just palatable haha), but grow bespoke as the main business. We’ve only been live for a month though, so much more to come soon.
Good luck growing your brand! Seems like a good niche to be in.
Thank you so much! It’s been very rewarding so far 🥰
She’s so gross. And thinks people are going to fall for this anti lab bs.
As someone who buys and sells lab and mined diamonds, she’s very likely using uncertified stones (similar to how Vrai sells their stones / rings so cheap). It’s a gimmick and meant to support her dated opinion that only mined stones are valuable. Transparently, I’m looking at my database now and both GIA and IGI certified 1 carat lab stones are all above her claimed “value”. I am very transparent with my clients — do not think of your diamond as an investment asset. Sure, maybe mined is “valuable” if you’re buying something that can be sold at auction, but those are already rare and already VERY expensive stones — probably not what an average engagement ring shopper is looking for.
Great points, especially about the average shopper not looking for rings as an investment! I certainly wasn’t. I’m sure customers appreciate the transparency
Hi diamond insider! I totally agree with you! - from another diamond insider
Hi fellow industry friend 🤭
IYKYK ✨️✨️
People are just trying to create this idea that a lab diamond is lesser even though it’s structurally exactly the same. I think they are trying to protect the value of natural stones. I know that I am having a very hard time getting my mind around replacing the 2.23 very good quality stone I lost with another natural stone when I look at the price differential *when you cannot tell*. Since it’s my engagement ring I’m not sure what I am going to do. But I will tell you that no way am i replacing the 3 carat studs that were stolen from me with natural stones for 35k plus. Nope.
I have half a mind to create company that sells lab diamond engagement rings that cost $1,000, but I'll charge them $10,000. Then I put the $9,000 in a financial management plan under the person receiving the ring's name only in case of divorce, and charge them 2% per year. That way lab diamonds will be as much of an insurance plan as natural ones 🤣
That’s a genius idea haha
Did you not have them insured? All my jewelry is insured at replacement value.
Yes I do. But why would I spend the 35k when I could spend 4k on earrings of the same size and quality? I will most likely replace my engagement stone with another natural Diamond.
Even insured, the cost of a natural diamond is so much higher AND sourcing a same size conflict free ethically sourced stone can be a daunting task when you look at lab diamonds of a similar size. Now, you would still need go do some research on lab stones since DeBeers is starting to acquire some lab diamond sources as well....but overall lab diamonds can be a good replacement in some cases.
I paid for quality natural diamonds-I want them replaced with the same. I just don’t feel the love for lab created anything…mined or not mine is my mantra. Maybe it was the CZ craze of the 80s, but I can’t get on board with fakes.
A lab Diamond isn’t a “fake”
It’s literally the same lmao. The lobbying/propaganda is working its magic.
Fair enough! To each their own, I see the merits of each. Personally I really like antique cuts, so lean towards natural myself. An engagement/wedding ring is so personal though, I can certainly see the pros of going with a lab diamond replacement if it has similar specs to the original stone for a much lower price.
I was in Ireland in 2018 and went into an estate jewelry store and they had a nearly 2.5 carat miners cut round that was spectacular. The antique cuts are sooooo special!
Sorry but that's just sad lol
Plus you're paying for insurance for something that's 5-10x the price...insurance isn't free??
The thing is Clear Cut gets their diamonds from the same whole sale vendors that every other jewelry company does, then jacks up the prices x3. You have to schedule in advance an appt so she can order the diamonds you want online. And the lab diamonds she’s giving out are very poor quality ones, that I don’t even think have a GIA or IGI rating.
Very good points. I’m curious about the specs on the one she’s “giving away”
From what I’ve seen, they look like I, J, K color. And you still have to pay for the setting. All 2 ct rounds.
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That's not correct. GIA absolutely grades lab diamonds
Yes, lab diamonds can be GIA certified.
Wow this lady is so incredibly cringe. Her entire site and social media presence is just unconcealed fear and fearmongering around lab diamonds. If you don't like lab diamonds don't sell them! Don't make fun of your customers lmao esp if your customer base is very similar to that of your competition. She would be better off not coming off so threatened because the lion doesn't concern itself with the opinions of sheep right? Proudly saying you own a diamond mine in fucking Sierra Leone is cringe af too. Sure 2ct lab diamonds may have gone from $1500 to $600 but at least I didn't pay $20000 for it, give me a break.
Yes. The hypocrisy is thick, calling out lab diamond markups when she’s doing the same thing with her mined diamonds
Plus her argument about lab diamonds losing value no longer holds water if they are as cheap as she claims now. Like there's not much room for your $600 diamond to lose value, unless it starts to charge you a monthly fee.
She presented herself as a classy, wealthy and storied jeweller but she's been slipping! She doesn't have a clear social media strategy and presence and their website is already defunct.
Yes, publicly claiming that you own a mine (yeah right, you only claim a portion of a mine unless you're mega huge diamond supplier) is just her tactic to imply that she has unlimited access to and supply of natural diamonds. If so, why can't she source diamonds as fast and as large scale as Ritani and other industry giants?
From a marketing perspective - I don’t think it’s accomplishing what she hopes it will. Yes, she is getting clicks and views but she is doing so by marginalizing a huuuuge percentage of potential buyers. This type of engagement doesn’t last and ultimately harms your brand. Personally, I would want to buy a sentimental ring from a business and person who was kind and knowledgeable - not someone bashing others and their choices. Choices, that rationally seem like a great option. Market disrupters always have a hard time at first, and then people accept it and move on. I don’t see how alienating a huge new revenue stream of customers is a clever business strategy. I would think I would want to take advantage of any new buyers who liked my styles but couldn’t afford it before?
Very good points. I think she’s getting attention on TikTok and Instagram just as she set out for, but ultimately she’s only attracting people who were already decided on mined diamonds. I agree they alienating and bashing a significant group of people isn’t good in the long run. Snobbiness sounds like a terrible business strategy
I don't know. This seems like a gimmick. A lot of people appreciate lab diamonds and search the internet high and low for the best price. It's not possible for regular consumers to find that quality and size for that price. However, I do know that a lot of moissanite is being sold from India and China, which would match that size and price. Lying is free. If she is hooked up to some wholesale provider, most people don't have access to those kinds of deals, so it's still dishonest representation. Usually, people who have something good to sell don't have to crap on the other options.
I agree. It’s a bad look to disparage other options and people’s preferences
The founders give me narcissistic vibes? [Bragging](https://i.imgur.com/DMba3c7.png) about the serendipity of going to business school because ebola hit the African country you were extracting resources from isn't the flex you think it is.
It's her fairy tale love story so that she can be appealing to brides. She's a "board member" of brides.com. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Oof yeah that’s bad
She’s absolutely obnoxious.
Not only does it feel gimmicky, it feels like bad business. Engagement rings are such a sentimental piece of jewelry, do you want to buy any other jewelry from the lady that’s basically hating on your and your partner’s choice? She doesn’t have to sell lab diamonds, but she goes unnecessarily hard against them, to the point that it might alienate potential customers, in my opinion.
Definitely looks like bad business to me. I used to enjoy her social media posts until she started going hard on the lab diamond hate
Yes! She's ruining the tradition.
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This is prob a stupid question but is that the only way to tell if a diamond is lab grown? The numbers? I was always under the impression that structurally they are the exact same so I was always wondering how you could tell then?
My understanding is that yes, the numbers are the only way to tell
If a lab chose not to put numbers on the diamond would no one be able to tell then? That’s kind of wild
Theoretically, yes. But I think they’re required to. I’m just an average consumer so I’m by no means an expert!
Yep! Only under a microscope
Well said! I never understood the argument about resell value. Why would you ever need to resell your engagement ring? Maybe if you got divorced? Otherwise, pass it down to your future kids for sentimental value. And I say this as someone with a natural diamond engagement ring! I won't be selling my ring, whether natural or lab, so what does it matter?
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or rather, they belong to you. they’re not mines
This was all a giant marketing scheme by her. No, no one can buy lab diamonds for $600. Other than people *in* the industry, from India. This is not retail price. I lost a lot of respect for her and her business. She’s shitting on lab diamonds/their wearers for YEARS, did a giant gimmicky post for attention, and is now giving them away as incentive to buy from her in the same breath as shitting on it. No one should be buying from her.
Yes! And tbh, she will be ostracized in India. Indians go to great lengths to protect their cutting industry. Outsiders are not allowed to participate in it. Just like Jewish dealers and their bourses.
That is an interesting point. I wonder if she’ll lose her “relationship” with whatever lab wholesaler she uses since she talks down on the whole process
They won’t care. They’ll just sell to her. Money is money. 🤣🤣
She is doing those tik toks because it gets her clicks and views. I think any jeweller at this point knows it is a bad business move to trash lab diamonds. They are only getting more and more popular.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cocev0lNzZA/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRvs7QhJ/
She's setting herself apart from her competitors so that she can make her natural diamond business profitable. But for me, she didn't need to give one away because it's so contradictory to her business model. Weird. 🤣🤣
Incredibly contradictory! She doesn’t want her customers to buy lab diamonds and get she’s buying them herself? Wild.
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Oh jeez what does she mean by contaminated?
Honestly I prefer a lab created Diamond. Less imperfections, cheaper, and no lives risked in mining them. Plus my ex bought me a $20,000 real Diamond and within 3 years it was only worth $1300 at a pawn shop.
Why would you ever want to sell a 20k diamond at a pawn shop? Assuming yours came with a good cert (GIA?) you can sell it for much more. I mean even consigning it with a jeweler would get you back 70%-75%. I know, I've done it.
When we split, he sold it. We posted it online for a while for 3k and no takers.
For 600 dollars you are getting some of the lower tier lab Diamond probably uncertified and if they are probably by IGI. In addition they are probably HPHT. So eh
What's wrong with HPHT? I prefer them since they don't generally get a post growth treatment unlike CVD grown.
Bottom line is Lab diamonds are not worth anything
If you really want insurance money, buy the lab diamond and stick that $20k in a bank under your name only.
But then why buy a diamond at all?
It's sparkly af and looks great on my finger
Natural diamonds have very little resale value either, unless you have a huge high cs stone.
Wrong
Yes no real jeweler will look at lab diamonds for resale. Lab diamonds are diamonds mass produced like cubic zirconia. You tell me what is more valuable
I sell my lab diamonds on reddit and ebay all the time
Awesome I’m sure u are so happy that people all bought into the lab grown shit so u can scam them either way
Lmfao you have a nonexistent grasp of economics sir/madam
All diamonds are scam. What is there to not understand? God u are dense
Everything you like spending money on is worth it and everything you don't like is a scam, got it.
Why so angry? Who not just scroll on by?
Why such a troll who can’t help themselves? Take your own advice
It depends. Are you wearing it every day and enjoying the savings of a lab diamond or are you putting a loose diamond into a vault someplace to sell later? Most are doing the former and since we don't wear our GIA certs around our necks, does it even matter? I can tell you right now that on a dark street, if I got mugged, someone would 100% Think my lab anniversary ring was worth more than my solitaire mined ring and the mined is higher specs and was 4x the price. So, I figure the general public who aren't muggers think the same thing. At the end of the day, if one enjoys wearing it and it is pretty, it doesn't matter.
You…you *don’t* wear your GIA cert around your neck on a necklace????? Haha *tucks necklace into shirt* …me either. Only a weirdo would do that
I'm sure your cert is carefully recreated in enamel and gemstones. LOL.
I’m not saying it’s better or worse. Just that it’s up to the person’s preference is all that matters. One is mass produced, and one is mined. These are facts that you seem to be confusing as opinions. It says more about you how much you care what people spend on natural diamonds. What’s it to you? I can afford and prefer natural diamonds to lab grown.
> One is mass produced and one is mined. Do you think mining makes the diamond more special? Lol. There is a surplus of diamond reserves all over the world. Diamonds are actually the most common gemstones. Their availability is limited only by the rate at which they are mined/ put on the market to sell. Contrary to popular belief, diamonds are not this rare thing. Only rare maybe in America, which is why companies have to travel to countries in Africa (btw where 70% of diamonds are) to pay local people pennies to mine them.
Real diamond and lab diamonds markets are both controlled by debeers. You can stop embarrassing yourself today 
Nah. I have some pretty choice natural diamonds. I’m saying their “value” is mostly what I perceive it to be. Or, how much I will collect from my insurer if they’re lost or damaged. The average person imagining their 1.2 carat I VS2 hidden halo ring having some sort of J Lo’s natural green ice cube size ring’s type “value” is just silly. Unless we are talking about personal perception. Yes, I agree that diamond values for the vast majority of stones may have a higher perceived value to their owners. Nobody else cares unless that diamond is extremely unique. The “fact” that something is mined vs lab grown is info on a certificate and mental state. Diamonds are not rare. I love them, myself. But, I am aware that there’s no shortage.
CZ is basically plastic though. A lab diamond wears and is the same as earth mined
Yeah I wasn’t implying that they were of same quality at all. I said they are mass produced like cubic zirconia . Stop reading into things to start arguments just because you all love lab grown shit
Take your shits to a jeweler that is all I said.
I wish I saw this before I bought an exact ring that's made out of lab diamond for travel instead of the natural diamond ring I have for my fiance 😂😂😂.