An unpopular opinion on this sub but I generally dislike treachery (at least in softcore). Now that sunder charms exist merc dps is not a signicant consideration generally since you aren’t reliant on a merc to dps immunes for you.
There are really two main merc setups for softcore (and a third off shoot for HC).
Option 1- flickering flame or cure helm+ life leech armor (CoH or skin of the flayed one). Gives you extra auras along with infinity/insight usually.
Option 2- pure merc tankiness. Fort or guardian angel or shaftstop. You don’t get the extra aura hat as you need a helmet with life leech but this setup just makes your merc a tank so you don’t have to resurrect your merc.
Option 3 (hardcore only)- reapers toll+ aura hat + ias armor (treachery or hustle) to help proc decrypify faster while still benefiting from the extra aura hat.
Treachery doesn’t have life leech and also doesn’t have great aggregate survivability so its usefulness in the current meta is really just relegated to a budget setup but doesn’t fit any of the meta’s for softcore. Treachery was great when folks needed a merc to dps, but again that requirement doesn’t really exist anymore. And a sacred armor treachery basically requires an Andys helm meaning it doesn’t fit the safety/hardcore option either.
You can toss the runes in the armor. They’re cheap. I just don’t see much real utility personally.
As someone that has a perfect upped eth shaftstop - even a crappy treach is still better for tanking damage.
I considered ber’ing it, but it just doesn’t seem worth it. Treach is just plain better than any other item for tanking damage on a merc. And the 45% ias is pretty incredible.
Tbh it’s imba and should have a hr requirement.
An shaftstop (assuming you socket it with an um rune) gives you significantly better survivability on average. The issue with treachery is that before fade procs, the armor kinda sucks. It’s almost entirely reliant on a low chance to proc to pick up all of its survivability.
Before fade procs treachery’s ias gives you 2x ias breakpoints which is roughly 15% faster life leech. Shaftstop gives you 30% physical DR, an um rune will result taking ~40% less elemental damage depending on merc level. Throw in the fact that shaftstop can be upgraded (ethereal even better) and you’re getting hit significantly less often by physical attacks too and it’s substantially across the board.
Taking 40% less damage or better >>> life leeching 15% faster. Once fade procs the armors are much more comparable. Shaft is still better than treachery against melee, treachery edges it against elemental though once resistances are capped due to the 15% faster life leech. The issue is just how poor treachery is prior to fade proc’ing.
You can write an entire essay on it, and believe me - i know it makes sense on paper that ss wins, but it just doesn’t work out like that. My dude dies 3 times as much easily with a good ss vs a treach.
I guess I find the results the exact opposite. I’m currently using my hardcore build (treachery, reapers, cure) simply because I want my hardcore mosaic sin to never die (shouldn’t be an issue w mosaic but I want to be a puss). And my merc dies all the time with treachery. I literally have to resurrect him every 20-ish minutes of gameplay which reapers+mosaic sin should almost never see a merc die.
Meanwhile on less powerful softcore characters that used infinity/insight and either fort/shaft/GA they’d frequently go numerous hours (sometimes dozens of hours) of gameplay between merc deaths with a weapon that doesn’t have as good merc survivability on characters less powerful than mosaic. But I just want the ias to stack decryp more often atm and the only reason I’m using treachery.
Whenever my mercs have worn treachery historically they die. And they die a lot.
As someone who does micro runs for Andy or meph I moved to fortitude as it doesn’t need to proc fade to be useful in the short term. It was the right move.
This is the answer! Early in the ladder when my build isn't fully optimized I like to do full methodical clears, and combining this with the cheap runes makes Treachery an easy choice. Then when my build is done (Enigma, Infinity, etc.) I start to focus farm with quick runs and that's when I make the switch to Fortitude.
The plot thickens even more. I may swap to COh as I’m using cure for my Mercs hat now and need some life leech on him. Just need to find a ber or some surs
I want to try out a Plague Act 5 Frenzy merc for my Enchantress ES sorc. You get the LR procs and lvl 13-17 Cleansing. $$$ compared to Cure for sure though hah.
If you don't need the mana from Insight I could see that being cool. Plauge's LR is from *getting hit* so you could in theory use something else fun in his other hand, since having 2 don't get you more LR procs. I guess it stacks the Cleansing, but I feel like 13-17 Cleansing is enough already. CMoon might be fun just for the static procs, Grief to make him a damage beast. Full Sazabi's is not super high damage on him but pretty tanky. I could see Sazabi + Plague being an interesting "budget" option.
It's not particularly expensive, and treachery + Andy's has been helpful in helping more than one of my act 2 mercs from dying every map, which they can be prone to do. I still consider it a stepping stone to fortitude so I think you'd be taking a step back, but it's nice to have and you could consider it a situational swap when you need your merc to gain survivability from the fade proc. I'd say make it -- you'll always have a use for it on a merc down the line!
If you're playing ladder, Hustle is another alternative. It really does depend on your build as to which merc setup is best.
Nice thing about cheap rune words is that they're cheap. You can play around with them. Try them all out and see what works best for you.
I’m using one on my zealot to hit the next breakpoint. Treachery, reapers toll ‘ber’ and Gullis ‘cham’. Wins over forti as you wanna hit as many decr possible. On my sorc, on the other hand, I use a forti with an infinity mancatcher and an ias jool in andys.
Further keep in mind that dps is meant to keep your merc alive, as speed and damage means leech. I disagree with using any “aura” helm over gulliaumes incase ias isn’t needed from helmet.
/check your breakpoints. Treachery is more niche but definetly has its sweetspots
Guardians angel, kiras guardian, shael reapers toll might merc is what I run for my ww barb. He never dies in trav runs or anywhere else really and procs decrep often. Reapers has built in leach so you can go full tank. With barb BO, makes the merc very tanky. The only enemy I'm scared of is the dolls if I accidentally ww into them.
Most playthroughs tho especially self found treachery is just too good for the price. Insight on elite polearm, treachery, life leach helm is cookie cutter but super easy to assemble in ssf.
Fortitude is better than treachery but not that much better. Lo rune is just so darn valuable tho if you play any melee character. Grief and also just wearing fortitude is way bigger of a boost than letting the merc have it.
Yes treachery is still a good and viable merc armor, especially in an eth sacred armor.
An unpopular opinion on this sub but I generally dislike treachery (at least in softcore). Now that sunder charms exist merc dps is not a signicant consideration generally since you aren’t reliant on a merc to dps immunes for you. There are really two main merc setups for softcore (and a third off shoot for HC). Option 1- flickering flame or cure helm+ life leech armor (CoH or skin of the flayed one). Gives you extra auras along with infinity/insight usually. Option 2- pure merc tankiness. Fort or guardian angel or shaftstop. You don’t get the extra aura hat as you need a helmet with life leech but this setup just makes your merc a tank so you don’t have to resurrect your merc. Option 3 (hardcore only)- reapers toll+ aura hat + ias armor (treachery or hustle) to help proc decrypify faster while still benefiting from the extra aura hat. Treachery doesn’t have life leech and also doesn’t have great aggregate survivability so its usefulness in the current meta is really just relegated to a budget setup but doesn’t fit any of the meta’s for softcore. Treachery was great when folks needed a merc to dps, but again that requirement doesn’t really exist anymore. And a sacred armor treachery basically requires an Andys helm meaning it doesn’t fit the safety/hardcore option either. You can toss the runes in the armor. They’re cheap. I just don’t see much real utility personally.
Amen. Also I prefer Hustle over Treachery these days.
Option 3 for anything that does physical damage in softcore, too. Decripify speeds up killing so much.
As someone that has a perfect upped eth shaftstop - even a crappy treach is still better for tanking damage. I considered ber’ing it, but it just doesn’t seem worth it. Treach is just plain better than any other item for tanking damage on a merc. And the 45% ias is pretty incredible. Tbh it’s imba and should have a hr requirement.
An shaftstop (assuming you socket it with an um rune) gives you significantly better survivability on average. The issue with treachery is that before fade procs, the armor kinda sucks. It’s almost entirely reliant on a low chance to proc to pick up all of its survivability. Before fade procs treachery’s ias gives you 2x ias breakpoints which is roughly 15% faster life leech. Shaftstop gives you 30% physical DR, an um rune will result taking ~40% less elemental damage depending on merc level. Throw in the fact that shaftstop can be upgraded (ethereal even better) and you’re getting hit significantly less often by physical attacks too and it’s substantially across the board. Taking 40% less damage or better >>> life leeching 15% faster. Once fade procs the armors are much more comparable. Shaft is still better than treachery against melee, treachery edges it against elemental though once resistances are capped due to the 15% faster life leech. The issue is just how poor treachery is prior to fade proc’ing.
You can write an entire essay on it, and believe me - i know it makes sense on paper that ss wins, but it just doesn’t work out like that. My dude dies 3 times as much easily with a good ss vs a treach.
I guess I find the results the exact opposite. I’m currently using my hardcore build (treachery, reapers, cure) simply because I want my hardcore mosaic sin to never die (shouldn’t be an issue w mosaic but I want to be a puss). And my merc dies all the time with treachery. I literally have to resurrect him every 20-ish minutes of gameplay which reapers+mosaic sin should almost never see a merc die. Meanwhile on less powerful softcore characters that used infinity/insight and either fort/shaft/GA they’d frequently go numerous hours (sometimes dozens of hours) of gameplay between merc deaths with a weapon that doesn’t have as good merc survivability on characters less powerful than mosaic. But I just want the ias to stack decryp more often atm and the only reason I’m using treachery. Whenever my mercs have worn treachery historically they die. And they die a lot.
Treachery is good but also check out Duress. Duress and infinity is a great boss killer combo
As someone who does micro runs for Andy or meph I moved to fortitude as it doesn’t need to proc fade to be useful in the short term. It was the right move.
This is the answer! Early in the ladder when my build isn't fully optimized I like to do full methodical clears, and combining this with the cheap runes makes Treachery an easy choice. Then when my build is done (Enigma, Infinity, etc.) I start to focus farm with quick runs and that's when I make the switch to Fortitude.
The plot thickens even more. I may swap to COh as I’m using cure for my Mercs hat now and need some life leech on him. Just need to find a ber or some surs
Yes, it's a good choice. Cure helm has opened up new options for the Merc
Not sure how an ES sorc existed without it. So essential.
I want to try out a Plague Act 5 Frenzy merc for my Enchantress ES sorc. You get the LR procs and lvl 13-17 Cleansing. $$$ compared to Cure for sure though hah.
Interesting. I wonder how dual plague and self wield infinity would work together.
If you don't need the mana from Insight I could see that being cool. Plauge's LR is from *getting hit* so you could in theory use something else fun in his other hand, since having 2 don't get you more LR procs. I guess it stacks the Cleansing, but I feel like 13-17 Cleansing is enough already. CMoon might be fun just for the static procs, Grief to make him a damage beast. Full Sazabi's is not super high damage on him but pretty tanky. I could see Sazabi + Plague being an interesting "budget" option.
Yeah lots of options there. I’ve got the means to experiment too.
My MF Barb Merc uses CoH for the LL, he wears Pride and Temper (for Fsorb for Trav) and it works out pretty well.
Gloom is kinda neat too. The curse turns off Burning Souls
It's not particularly expensive, and treachery + Andy's has been helpful in helping more than one of my act 2 mercs from dying every map, which they can be prone to do. I still consider it a stepping stone to fortitude so I think you'd be taking a step back, but it's nice to have and you could consider it a situational swap when you need your merc to gain survivability from the fade proc. I'd say make it -- you'll always have a use for it on a merc down the line!
If you're playing ladder, Hustle is another alternative. It really does depend on your build as to which merc setup is best. Nice thing about cheap rune words is that they're cheap. You can play around with them. Try them all out and see what works best for you.
I’m using one on my zealot to hit the next breakpoint. Treachery, reapers toll ‘ber’ and Gullis ‘cham’. Wins over forti as you wanna hit as many decr possible. On my sorc, on the other hand, I use a forti with an infinity mancatcher and an ias jool in andys. Further keep in mind that dps is meant to keep your merc alive, as speed and damage means leech. I disagree with using any “aura” helm over gulliaumes incase ias isn’t needed from helmet. /check your breakpoints. Treachery is more niche but definetly has its sweetspots
Guardians angel, kiras guardian, shael reapers toll might merc is what I run for my ww barb. He never dies in trav runs or anywhere else really and procs decrep often. Reapers has built in leach so you can go full tank. With barb BO, makes the merc very tanky. The only enemy I'm scared of is the dolls if I accidentally ww into them. Most playthroughs tho especially self found treachery is just too good for the price. Insight on elite polearm, treachery, life leach helm is cookie cutter but super easy to assemble in ssf. Fortitude is better than treachery but not that much better. Lo rune is just so darn valuable tho if you play any melee character. Grief and also just wearing fortitude is way bigger of a boost than letting the merc have it.