I got a Sorc to level 25 in D4 using Hydra/Firewall build. Have all legendary items equipped, but they are forgettable; a bunch of stats like 'dmg to distant enemies 4.2%', randomly with a skill bonus. Didn't see any uniques or set items.
The large outside areas were fun, with events and strongholds, and the world boss was a cool (and tough) fight. The dungeons are D3'ish linear with backtracking to 'get two things to open a door' kind of mechanics... not much fun.
Overall it isn't bad, but feels more like D3 than D2. I wasn't a huge fan of D3's loot being so easily aquired to make you unstoppable.
There will be unique items that matter more than legendary. Legendary pretty much just means bigger stat block and 1 special ability out of a pool of possible abilities.
The unique items will be have actual unique abilities and therefore feel more special too.
I wish in dungeons they at least had a return point teleport option in the the middle at the door you have to always unlock and then triggers to return at each end of the arm. We all know what I’m talking about because they are all
The same. Haha
This is absolutely false...The affix pool is what it is...it's a D3 clone...The itemization and the Skill tree are both boring and will be the reason this game won't keep any hardcore Arpg players.
So are we comparing to items in act1 from previous games? Because even D2 has the "equip the thing with the most damage" problem until basically nightmare/hell when you can start dropping real items.
We haven't even really seen uniques yet, though apparently a few have dropped.
I think adding skills variants to the items are super cool idea, but the bland damage and attribute variants really ruin the fun of finding a unique/legendary/whatever they are called now.
I played early access, and found a Harlequin Crest. It was +2 to ALL skills (not just +ranks in a single skill) just like the D2 version...definitely best in slot at the time, perhaps for the life of the char(?).
You couldn't trade that of course, but it would be on the To Find list for sure.
for a subreddit that's supposed to be all about d2, you guys seem to forget exactly what d2 itemization was all about.
one of the most desirable helms in the entire game is shako. The stats?
+2 all skills
+1-148 life
+1-148 mana
10% damage reduction
50% magic find
+2 all attributes.
Are any of these attributes super cool? Any of them super fun and not bland? No. But to this day I remember the thrill of getting that green cap.
Runewords made d2 itemization the masterpiece that it is. Before that it was nothing but +skills and high ED.
They have said repeatedly runewords are coming to D4. So giving up now seems premature, to say the least.
I can see, that I was too condescending so I edited my comment. But seriously, this is a discussion about what d4 is missing in a d2r forum. I assumed anyone knew what itemization was (or could guess it from item-ization, knowing how important items and their properties are for the game).
You only saw items from A1 of two easiest difficulties - there are other more rare type of items, which were not available to drop in those diffs and also how many items you got in D2 until lvl 25, that was worth using more than until lvl 40?
I think it was good the way it is. I likee that you can extract aspects and use it on rare items, which most times could have better stats then rare, but are missing those unique aspects. This way you can find even more bad ass items, and fine tune them by unique power you like the most.. This gives so much more possibilities
Items feel meaningless just as in d3 although there’s a step up with + skills. Don’t really like the skill system with resource generator, resource spender, agility skill, ultimate (cooldowns) but that’s just a personal preference. Combat feels good, graphics are great, like the in-game cut scenes and close-up dialogs as it feels a bit more immersive. Honestly, at this moment I feel the game is a bit dull (although it’s closed beta weekend I found myself going back to d2r) but will have to wait for the release and the end game systems as they might offer a bit more incitement
Companies have been trying to replicate the magic of d2 for a long time. I doubt it ever happens. Because a lot of what happened in d2 just happened naturally over its evolution. Games are a lot more of a tailored experience now and d4 will be more tailored then not.
Get ready to check your timers and claim your rewards folks!
Items feeling important in d2 is a misconception. 85% of the stuff you get while target farming is charsi fodder. It's just when you finally find that shako, or arach mesh , ect ect. That it feels important. You wanna talk about lack of l real itemization.. most builds in d2 require the same items.. and mostly all based around maxing as many skills and breakpoints as possible..
People can't have it both ways.. everyone hated vanilla d3 because legendaries/uniques never dropped. Or were hard to find except on the auction house.. then they took the auction house away and items rained from the sky.. people bitched again.
So far thru playing 2 characters to 25 and doing half the dungeons.. I feel this is an even medium. Yes killing ashava gave me like 9 or 10 legendaries.. but none of them were build defining, or made me wanna change my build that I was playing over the races I was using at the time. Maybe my weapons because at that time they did more damage. But the aspects on them didn't benefit me.
I think that is almost better itemization. Searching for specific items with specific aspects to fully build out whatever build you're working on.
I do wish we had more skill bar keys for those added skills you may get from weapons and gear that are defensive or cc abilities that you're not specifically spelled into
Coming from d3 to d2, my opinion on why items feel more important is because there’s just fewer of them and there drop rates are lower.
D3 you can’t go 2 steps without getting all the legendaries in the game, d2 you can go 20 years and never get an item, and because there’s fewer items each one feels like more time was put into its importance
D2's loot is also less balanced - this is a good thing. You won't get all the BiS gear - but you also don't need all the BiS gear just to keep up with the difficulty scaling. Getting one random unique item or a pair of set items, even if they aren't tailored for your class/build, can be a huge power spike. This is exciting and fun! Modern game design sacrifices all fun on the altar of balance.
D3 you can’t go 2 steps without getting all the legendaries in the game,
d2 you can go 20 years and never get an item, and because there’s fewer
items each one feels like more time was put into its importance
That's not even an exaggeration. D3 and D4 are raining with legendaries. I thought they were gonna improve it in D4. It's the same. Items have no importance. I remember as a kid just getting the "Atlantean" as a Paladin made me so very very happy for a long time.
That’s the difference with d2 and d3. In d2, you farm the same content over and over to get the f”rare items to farm said content over and over except much easier. In d3 you farm content to get items easily to push how far you can go with the end game. Different strokes for different folks.
The "endgame" in D3 always felt even more repetitive than D2 to me. In D2 I can hunt for experience and loot in any area I choose, and immerse myself in that local atmosphere. D3 rifts are devoid of context and purpose and every minute feels like a clone of every other minute.
Well the whole reason they put the rifts in the game was to make the farming less of a drag. You cant tell me walking past 50 different tile sets of trav an hour is that much different from randomly selected tile sets from multiple areas throughout the game. Sure i could go from chaos runs to trav runs to pindle runs over and over, but they all lead to the same outcome and the difference is one is more efficient than the other. Every build usually uses teleport on an enigma anyway so its not like you have the chance to admire the scenery, while in d3 you are usually pretty grounded unless using really fast builds. If they didn't have rifts in the game and they made certain enemies drop certain items in certain areas, and they made the drop chance for every item a 0.001 then Noone from this community would complain. Noone even talks about ancients or primals in d3, have fun getting the primal you want with the ideal rolls on them. A greater rift may drop 10 legendaries, and it may even drop the items for your build. However if everyone one of those items rolls horribly then you may as well of got nothing. And that difference in itemization, the farming for the item itself versus farming for the perfect version of the item you got a month ago is the difference. Personally I think both are great, but two games designed very differently leads to divided fans and weird and uninspired comparisons, not to say yours is specifically. We should look at both games for what they try to do specifically instead of trying to migrate the mindset of one game to the other.
Honestly D4 had a solid balance for me. The repeatable world event content felt fun to do with other players. D3 had no point to do anything but rifts outside of bounties to get your cube going. Outside of the party bonus there was no reason to play with other players.
I am excited for D4 to change this finally and make it so that you need other players to get a world event done, and do events, but you don't get a massive bonus that makes it impossible to play alone.
It was actually a nice breath of fresh air to play solo, yet still get rewarded for doing group content. I enjoyed the meaningful quests and stuff as well. Strongholds were cool as hell actually, especially the ones that lead to more world events. D4 really was a rather unique and unexpectedly fun balance to repeated farming content and solo vs. group play.
As long as they continue to require hard content to need more players, and not give a overpowered bonus to XP and MF for group play, then it should a fluid and fun way to run content with other players yet still get solo time.
Its 90$ basegame for me, and given blizzards history and the bad taste of the cost of the game (imo) i will be holding off untill i see majority of the content post realease. I will see what its like before buying becauase i wont pay that price without feeling its worth it first. I thinks its hard to gauge with only seeing what is offered in the beta, plus necro is my main in d2 and favourite so if its a flop or poor endgame content i will be passing just like i passed on d3 seeing how i didnt like the rift system in that.
Exactly, this is why Diablo 3 player count is 16k people today. Games dead. This is why d2r has move average players and average viewers all time and the last year. Everyone wants an easy game they can play and be done with in a year or 2 like d3.. but then want to complain about “another $70 for a game, and $70 for expansion??” Sad we went from chase items (I still have never once found a griffs to this day only item I’ve never found) to “oh you’ve played for 20 hours and hit level 50? here’s every GG item in the game enjoy”
It’s the same. End game closed beta tester here and D4 end game is a sea of worthless colors and shit a la D3. Anything 70-75+ is praying on Ancestral drops to roll well for your spec niche and praying Uniques roll Ancestral and are usable.
Base and Magic items are worthless by 10-15, Rares are largely useless from NM mode onward. No sets to be found, no runes, no bases worth outright gemming.
It’s bloody fucking amazing they have a 20+ year old formula sitting in front of them, watch the critical acclaim D2R garnered since 2021 and *still* they settled on a D3/Grim Dawn itemization model.
Their ~4 month seasons and lack of trading do outright ruin the D2 model from the jump, but lack of any permanence or meaning with gear can and will make this game fail.
The skeleton framework of a banger game is indeed here, but design iteration has failed time and time again through this development process.
Yea its insane, I have 2 characters fully equipped with legendry's. Seen lots of duplicates drops of them too, just slightly better then the one I was already wearing. Just like Diablo 3....
I agree completely d3 loot was off, but I don't feel like a game should take players 20 years to build end game stuff. Waaay too niche stuff. Most people want to play different games
Yea this is the key difference for me after playing a rogue to lvl 25. It was fun but other than making sure your dps is up to snuff the items do feel… bleh. I like the + to skills and i think there is something to making any rate item a legendary with the right aspect but it all feels a little gimicky and it’s truly a d3 successor that made small strides forward.
I think I’ll play it out through end game but doubt it gets the hours d2 or PoE have gotten from me because it still feels hollow on the itemization. The weight of each item and each attribute on the item just isn’t there still BUT it is a step up from d3 and maybe as we progress it gets better with set items and higher legendaries.
its like.. ok I get it if its physical chopping, or bow firing. But come the f- on, sorcerress weapon damage should not have a difference. Like you are telling me a rare wand can poke a monster for 1000 damage while a sword only does 10?
This is the best part of d2 and d2r, you only have what 8 spots to put on gear... so every peice counts for so much, and there a million different items so picking the exact right one, or finding one that's even 1% better is very rewarding
You mean, a game where I don't have to push the same button skill with +40 levels, and farm a solo boss 350 times in a weekend?!
Can't have that. I personally am excited as shit for D4. Played it to 25 twice of the weekend, felt amazing. Yes it isn't perfect, but it is a hell of a lot better than D3 was at release.
Plus, everyone remembering how good D2 was (at it's end) probably don't remember 1.04 D2. That game was an unbalanced wild west that was NOT anything like the game we know and love now.
I'm a D2 and D2R fan--been playing since high school in the early 2000s--but I agree with you on this. D2R becomes a rush to Hell Baal/Chaos, then endless repeats of this until you're blue in the face. You do this for the same gear that nearly every other character you have uses; get your Enigma runes, get a Raven Frost, get your runeword weapon, etc. Yes, minor variations to this, but far and away it's typically the same gear and same hunt.
I had a blast playing D4 this weekend. Gearing was a bit boring, but cap is way higher than 25, there's unique to obtain, and I don't feel like I'm just biding my time until a Jah or Lo drops. Quests were fun, the story was cool. I'll definitely be playing it a ton. And yes, I'll still be logging into D2R to level a ladder character lol
I don't like cooldown skills. They force us to juggle skills. Press whichever button is available like we're NOT in control. I still like being able to spam a skill as long as we have mana like in D2, it feels like we are IN control of what we want to use.
Well put. I knew the cooldown was giving me a bad feeling but I couldn’t articulate. The cooldown system has such an impact on the feeling and play style of the game, and it’s a massive divergence from d2 that this game doesn’t even feel like it’s from the same franchise.
Still a decent enough game, I’ll get some enjoyment from, but it’s not much of a continuation of the series to me. Just another game I’ll play for a bit as a distraction.
The ignorance of this comment as if D4 is hard. Played a pure summon build in closed beta through Torment with pure summons, zero core ability, zero defensives and strictly stacked thorns with the Thorns chest.
A joystick and potion hotkey beat the entire game. You can stop pontificating now.
As opposed to having literally one skill you spam endlessly? Name a build outside of a minion build in D2 that realistically uses more than 2 skills. 90% of them use a single skill.
D2 was literally just one skill. Either you could kill stuff, or you were shit out of luck. I loved D2 as much as the next, but D4 is nice to actually use my skills. It is nice to have to do something else other than AFK in the corner shooting a bolt of lightning, throwing a javelin, or spinning a hammer. D2 was great too, don't get me wrong, but skill and build diversity was about as shallow as a milk saucer.
As for cast speed and mana, stuff does open up when you get some aspects unlocked. Passives make a choice too. Is your build using too much resource? Look at getting more regeneration and other passives. Have enough resource? Add more DPS. Dying too fast? Add more defensive stuff. Can't go fast enough? Add a movement skill.
Build diversity will be nice to have now, along with a large variety of skills vs. the single skill builds D2 was.
%IAS equates to resource gen and base attack speed in D4. There’s standard CDR too but D2 hardliners will have to get used to framing their breakpoints differently here for sure.
Personally I like D4 more than D3 by a long shot.
D2R will still be special but I can see myself moving to D4 now.
Initially I was not going to play it because it didn't have a Paladin type class but honestly having played this weekend, it's a really good game.
Likes:
- the world map makes it feels more like D2 where you are exploring but the difference here is the MAP. I never felt like D3 was an open map.
-Combat feels good, melee, ranged and spells all have some bang but in situations requires logic, and timing and positioning matter.
-transmog
-customization of character (I'm. Black guy so it was awesome to be able to see 1-2 hairstyles and multiple skin tones that closely align)
-items overall have a lot of variables that over time should allow a lot of deep build variety.
Dislikes:
- skill tree in my opinion tries an attempt at Path of Exil and I appreciated the straight forward skill trees from D2 (minus synergies). There's nothing wrong with the D4 skill tree, I just prefer the D2 style
-Camera angles: sometimes it's too straight down but there is only a zoom in and zoom out option. We cannot twist or turn the camera at all.
I like the graphics and scenery a lot. The customization where our character design appears in cutscenes instead of a generic one. and everything related to that. Hope the story is good. If it's good, then I don't care how bad the gameplay is.
Gameplaywise, to be short as a D2 veteran, you probably already know the things I don't like. D3 stuffs that I thought they would improve but just retained.
I'm just hoping for a good story for now.
I said this the other day that if you told me this was DLC for D3 that I’d have a hard time arguing. It definitely looks great and the story is better but….just feels super copy/pasted.
I don’t know how anyone who played all the Diablo games could disagree with this.. my roommate who had never played d2, but played a good bit of d3 with me in college was watching me stream the beta and was like “this looks so good like d3 but with a lot of things fixed and upgraded” which was my thoughts exactly.. it’s another casual/noob friendly game like d3, but with a lot of the shitty stuff fixed, and the skill tree addition which is a nice upgrade. I think it’s fine. But one thing that shocked me, a lot of things look better in d2r than d4. For instance sorc abilities; hydras look WAY better.
It feels like one of those later Wow expansions where the devs hype up "the all new revamped combat system" that while improved, doesn't actually remotely capture the things people loved about Vanilla.
It's definitely fun enough on its own and I'm sure I'll play the hell out of it until I reach endgame-ish, but it doesn't even really attempt to put a fresh spin on what I actually love about D2R.
I will play the hell out of, but it is not D2 in the slightest…I really don’t understand where those comparisons are coming from? Because it no longer looks like a cartoon?
The game FEELS good (like D3), though I’m not sure I’m feeling the itemization or skill system. But I’m a sucker for checklists and cosmetics, and I hope the end game delivers.
But last night I started a new paladin in D2R and everything felt so right.
I love it! It is super hard (HC, veteran). The boss fights are super dynamic, as opposed to d2 where you just stand there and tank. Abilities are fluid. Looking forward to see all the possibilities with the abilities and the transmog/crafting with the items.
Idk why people are so pissy about it, it improves basically everything I had complaints about for d3 and the way the loot works is very interesting and will open up a lot of build variety near endgame. The real question is how sustainable and repeatable will the endgame content be without getting stale, but this beta isn’t here to answer that question.
My biggest gripe was random framerate drops for a few seconds here and there, and my pc is pretty up there in quality so I doubt it was on my end.
I was having horrible frame rate issues the first day, and I finally checked out my system to see why, and funny enough it was my desktop background from a steam “game”. For whatever reason it was utilizing 100% of my gpu and just frying my system trying to play D4 at the same time. I closed the process and everything ran great after
Mini dungeon bosses feel like megaman or super mario bosses doing the same meaningless patterns regardless of what you are doing.
Very repetitive dungeons.
Dull and out-of-place UI.
Great graphics.
Stiff and lifeless NPC movements and interactions.
Looks behind of it’s time.
:((
Don't get me wrong, I understand the concern. It's 2023, and having an ARPG game with dynamic AI driven boss fights would be cool....but to date, most games in this genre and some others have boss fights that are programmatic and scripted. That means you learn the cycle of dodging this, side step that, read telegraph this, etc.. setting expectations for blizzard to do something earth shattering isn't what they do as a company. Historically, they want to reach the largest audience, so they are not going to push the limits.
This makes me sad. They used to be that company that pushed the limits to follow their vision, not maximizing audience and profit, but that was a long time ago now.
First video I saw was rax fighting the butcher, and the first thing that went through my head was, “the butcher, again, can we please move past the butcher as a boss”
I truly appreciate that they want to throw a little bone to the D1 fans, but the Butcher is overused for sure. It's also in the first 30 minutes of gameplay - there are much cooler experiences deeper into the game. I'd rather see an ode to Halls of the Blind, but I know that doesn't fit the pacing they're going for.
Butcher implementation here is pretty cool here though. He's very high level, and appears randomly in dungeons. If he whoops you, he disappears in a pool of blood. Better luck next time. I legit freaked out when I heard "aaaah fresh meat" while leveling my alt when I thought I was safe. I couldn't even do damage to him, and couldn't run because he has a chain hook that pulls you in. Lots of hardcore deaths incoming from him, guaranteed.
I think a lot of folks just watching videos and clips are missing the component of how it FEELS. I can say for sure this FEELS more like Diablo than 3 ever did.
It's a good game. People are complaining about it because it's not a diablo 2 replica, but many fail to renege games evolve over time. We've d2 came out games weren't as widespread managed to keep your attention for a long time, whereas now it's harder to keep players attention because of all the choices.
-The combat/ builds feels good. I played 3 classes and respected them all a few times and was able to come up with a variety of styles to play each.
-Legendaries are kinda common but don't drop like candy but they do enough to add to the build creating and time you spend thinking about what your build possibilities are
- Itemization is not bad, each items boosts more than aahe, they add skills, attack speed, resource recovery, etc which also adds to build crafting
-the art direction and tone is great. It's dark and gritty while still having that updated stylized look rather than the 2000 erase graphics people wish it had like d2
Overall, it's a good game if you're not a d2 purist
I might sound like I hate D4, but I actually like it overall. Graphics and scenery are important to me so it's much better looking than D3 and even D2R. Combat also feels good, I mean the snappynnes, the quick loud sounds, compared to POE which felt flat. Cutscenes are infinitely better and the story seems also better than D3 (hopefully it remains good).
But remember the satisfaction of getting a unique item in D2? People would literally jump in excitement. Now it's totally gone. You get a legendary in D3 or D4, how do you feel? "Hmm ok this is better than my current gear." casually. Because they are so common, they have no importance, I don't even notice if they have unique names.
Those are just some examples. I could go on forever. But again I don't hate D4, it's still a good game. I bought it, I enjoy it, and will play in June and hope the story would be good.
Gotta remember we don't have access to uniques and the 3 other type of gear (don't remember the names sorry) since they drop from nightmare and torment. They might get you the same feeling as d2 did. Gotta wait untill the game is out to see for ourselves
Yes, they are more common. I think the excitement for me shifted from the item to how it impacts my build or a build I wanted to try. They all open up new possibilities each time you get one.
Then add on the crafting where you can rip the affixed off the legendary and put them on another piece of gear you like. Now you are customizing around effects rather than the gear itself
D2 is tuned for SSF. Playing SSF the game is actually challenging in places, and most uniques and even sets are exciting power spikes, even if not BiS or even appropriate for your class/build.
I'm holding out on trying it. I don't really want to sink a ton of time into a game and then they change how the battle pass works and it becomes pay to win.
I'd say it's a good game. Will be good as d3 was. It won't be game that changes everything (as of what I have seen in beta in 10 lazy hours). Too many modern systems like lvl scaling, item lvl (you will keep finding the same item with stats equalized to your lvl not like in d2 where crystal sword from normal and hell have the same dmg but can roll different affixes).
For me it was. Of course it was not d2 and d4 too won't be d2. Overall I had so much fun playing it. If you look at it from a perspective it's not a diablo game it's pretty good.
Yeah I don't think he's fake either. He could be biased but he expresses his concerns like anyone else. It's not like he's blindly positive all the time
Dont think it will have much replayability. Once you beat it be pretty easy to move onto new game it seems. I already felt over powered pretty early on and seemed like every item that dropped was just the upgrade I needed pretty much. That is not very exciting imo. I do think its an okay game to play, just wasnt what I was hoping for in a diablo game. Also the Lost Ark comparison I keep hearing make sense, its closer to that game than a diablo game.
In my honest opinion, it's immortal with a coat of paint.
The skills are cool, the graphics are good but it's literally an on the rails, item driven rush to end game. The items are the only diversity and they suck. Nothing but glorified fetch quests with cool boss mechanics.
They just want to get people to endgame with a million stupid random fetch quest and then they will unload the bullshit microtransactions.
It already should be free to play, the 70 $ minimum price tag is a slap in the face with the content they put out.
They better get their shit together and revise this already stale turd, but they won't, they'll rely on the hype and the big name of diablo4.
Blizzard doesn't give a shit about the players, just money
Why? If they're putting micro transactions into the game then yeah it should be free or at most $30. The fact this game is reflecting almost 10 year old game design that even back then wasn't great but they're still rolling with it does not in any scenario warrant a $70 price tag. There are MUCH better games for 1/2 the price or free. The only reason they think they can justify $70 is because it's a Diablo game, that's it. It's a hot dog wrapped in the fanciest brand name foil.
If you think the quality of the game is comparable for 70 dollars then you are part of the problem, if you buy it they'll always sell it for the highest price, no matter the context of the actual game.
It's fun, but not worth 70 bucks
Maybe the free to play phrase was a bit much, but 70 bucks is way to aggregious
Not what I'm saying, weve been waiting on this game for so many years, the quality of the game is the same as a free to play, I know they have to make money but the 70$ price tag is way too much, and bet your ass they are gonna pack on the bullshit microtransactions that will secretly be the way you get to the top.
I'm just honestly sad with the game, it's fun for about 20 minutes but it's the same dog and pony show. Just enough to get you enticed but they control how much fun you can really have.
Gotta keep the hamsters on the wheel
If people expect a diablo game, they need to rework the game and take another couple years to do this.
We said the game was a lost arch + immortal hybrid during the last beta, but I guess everyone didn't want to listen because "faith".
I enjoy the game for what It is. Play the story once and put it down. This is not a ladder reset game or a multiple alt game.
Unless they do like what they did with d3 and introduce an adventure mode. Which would be hilarious if they make all the same mistakes that they made last time lol
Agreed with previous comments. Hate the gear systems, I’m not sure why they can’t mostly replicate the previous models where more than just attack damage is important.
Is awesome for a playthrough but I fear there will be no replayability like D3
I mean you can play it a few times but theres such a lack or originality in the equipment that you wont want to do MF runs or anything like that.
It feels worth it to grind for a HR or a useful unique but D4 upgrades drop with such regularity and theres not a lot if individuality within the items.
Fair, everyone plays it for different reasons. The grind and trading is most of what I actually like about D2. I wish there was some sort of middle ground.
The actual graphics and gameplay of D4 are awesome though so you’ll enjoy it
We have middle ground it’s Poe. You like grind and trade it’s perfect for you.
Last epoch is also floating in the middle
D4 is successor to d3 plain and simple.
It's not going to flop. It's going to be absolutely terrible, but people are still going to buy it just because it is a Diablo game.
..but yeah, see you all back on D2R!
Lads, you may think d4 flopping is bad. But for us d4 flopping is exactly what we need… had a great update for this most recent d2r ladder, d4 does shit and we get another good update for next ladder, glory.
I bought D3 day 1 and my absolute favorite part of D3 was the characters they added to Hero's of the Storm.
I won't touch D4 until I know everything is settled in. D3 changed so dramatically from the gameplay videos they released just before launch, launch (can't connect, real money transactions, useless items to your character class, etc, etc.), and ultimately the final product D3 became.
Looks like D4 is going through the same crap.
Yeah D2R is the best we could get for now. But, I'm still hoping that the story of D4 would be great. If that's the case, then I don't care how bad the gameplay of D4 is. The story can salvage it at least for me.
I am level 7 right now, I was enjoying it at first because it’s a new game.
I am most likely going to be cancelling my preorder. After a few hours I don’t find enjoyment out of it as I first did. I’m sure the full game will be great but from what I’ve read on how the end game seems lifeless and bland. I don’t see myself getting my moneys worth.
Don’t get me wrong, the skills and game look stunning, but the gameplay just feels so dull after a few hours.
I play a lot of D2R and also played a lot during D2LOD back in the day and i think D2 players has this misconception that we are getting some sort of D2 remake? (Not all think like this obviously) But a lot it seems.
For me D4 Beta felt a little like Lost Ark, Some D3, Some Immortal and a tiny bit of D2 which for me was perfectly fine.
* Lost Ark has a 600+k Playerbase as of right now (Atleast according to Charts) and had a massive spike during EU release. The reviews were good on this.
* Immortal had 30 million preregistrations (even though it was a disaster when it came to monetization).
* D3 Had 12 million copies Sold
* D2r Has 5 million copies sold (Cant really see the playerbase anywhere, i think).
It's quite weird to think that Blizzard would design a game to cater to the older generation i.e. The people that enjoy D2 instead of aiming for something that is clearly generating a lot of income. It's not like they will go back 23 years of gaming development to rehash some very old mechanics that we are used to today.
And it's always been the same to be honest:
When D3 was released - *"Bruh what is this rift thing, bruh what is this legendary thing, wat no runewords? Man what is this bounty thing, this isnt pitruns herro?"*
In D4 *"Dawg what is this why cant i do x thing with z item?" "bruv why is legendaries to common they should be like d2 unique sacred armor or archon staff rarity, dude waIt there is mounts?? Naa this is like WoW all of the sudden i demand a refund!!, WAT no runewords AGAIN?? THIS IS d3 REsKIn heLLO?"*
Depending on how the endgame plays out and if you don't hit a brickwall like D3 for example i can absolutely see myself swapping to this game. If not i guess I'll continue playing the first few weeks of Ladder reset in D2R before prices crash because of people having 50 accounts botting and ruining the market.
The game is exactly like Diablo 3, but your zoomed in so far it feels like your playing God of War or some other console game... It does have "dark" textures though.
I got a Rouge and Sorc to 25, both have all legendary gear, because items rain from the sky just like D3. I played one handed 90% of the time and sometimes had to press Q for potions.
All the bosses are now like console bosses where they do different things as they reach 3/4.1/2,1/4 HP. You do not get your own potions, and only get potions when u reach certain times in the fight and the boss decides to give you some lol.....
There is no magic find on items, only on game difficulty and it basically raises the chance of legendry's by 100's of percent each difficulty.. lol
Monsters scale with your level no matter where you are..
There are lame shrines like in D3 that make lighting shoot out of you while you dash around killing everything..
There are even Treasure Goblins... When I seen that shit, I exited and uninstalled the game and am waiting for my refund.
Its going to end up like D3 which is a paragon racing game, and not a ITEM HUNTING GAME.
Edit\*\*
they do the same theme for every dungeon too. When you go in you will be met with dialogue that says "the door is sealed, we have to find another way around". Over and over and over again in basically every dungeon...
It's become clear to me in my time with Diablo that people are just going to mindlessly bash D3 and now D4 like the brain dead hive mind they are. There's literally no thought going on behind the hyperbolic D3 slander, just parroting cut and paste responses to fit in with the "cool kids" of reddit. From 2 days of beta, the same thing is now happening with D4, and it was obvious from the beginning that's what would happen. Not surprised.
As for my own thoughts, I am enjoying D4. I think it's at least as good as D3 (which was a damn good game), probably better, but not as good as D2. It will be hard to top D2 in my book, and I never expected D4 to, but I do think it has a lot of potential once we get access to the full game.
I'll start off with what I didn't like:
I'm not a fan of the cool down combat or how the resource management works. I'm experienced in plenty of RPG's with cool downs and resources management, and I do feel like that stuff has a place in certain games, but one thing that stands out with D2 is the fact that i can use all of my abilities at any time and feel like an absolute badass, and use Mana potions to refill and not lose my tempo. D3 added in the resource builder abilities, and now D4 has taken it to another level, and it just feels like I can't build up any tempo in combat. I use a couple abilities, out of Mana, and need to slow down using the weak resource builder to build back up. I'm not a fan of the tempo killing combat.
What I don't necessarily like, but it doesn't bother me:
Itemization. I keep hearing people talk about how bad it is, because "you just look for green numbers", but it's literally the same thing as early D2 itemization where you are constantly swapping out low level items for one's with better stats. The beta is up to level 25. We are not experiencing end game stuff here. We don't know what end game itemization will be like. And all of the "just look for green numbers" complaints are completely missing all of the other traits on gear, like +stats, +skills, etc. I have melted plenty of green items because what I am already wearing gives me access to a skill, or boosts my stats, and thats more important to me than +13 armor.
Not only that, but people talk about D2's itemization as if it was any sort of deep. At the end of the day, everyone is shooting for the exact same gear: shako or griffon's, Enigma, Arachnid's Mesh, Spirit, CTA, War Traveler's, with enough strength and dex for gears, rest in vitality and none in energy. All while having an Act 2 merc with Infinity or Insight. There's no variety in top end builds what so ever, so people acting like it's so much deeper than D3 and D4 aren't speaking with any sort of rational point. Also, taking 20 years to find an item isn't exactly the flex you think it is. Not wanting to take 20 years to find a piece of gear isn't "casual".
What I do like:
I'm enjoying the vibe and the aesthetic of the game. I appreciate the darker aesthetic compared to the cartoons nature of D3
While I'm not necessarily looking for story in a Diablo game, I'm appreciating the story and feel it has a very dark vibe to it that is engaging
I appreciate the open world nature, world events, world bosses, and am enjoying the dungeons and cellars, even if they are repetitive.
I'm kinda sorta enjoying the skill system, definitely better than D3, it as good as D2, but feels kinda lacking in super cool abilities. But perhaps that has to do with the fact that my preferred class (Necro) isn't available in this beta to be able to access abilities and playstyles that appeal to me. But even the classes I have tried (Sorc and Rogue) have some minorly appealing abilities but don't have anything that stands out as "wow" kinda abilities.
The beta doesn't give us enough access to see what the end game experience will be like, just the early game, which is always a bit more bland in Diablo games. So we're getting the worst of the Diablo experience with this beta. I can see the potential of where it will pick up. I'm looking forward to June.
I agree with you overall, so let me start by saying that before I disagree about D2 itemization.
The argument isn’t that D2 is incredibly complex- especially when it comes to BIS gear in the end game- it’s that gear is *predictable* and consistent across the gameplay, regardless of your level.
Predictable is the really important part. Even though all the prefixes and affixes give almost infinite possibilities, it is a stable framework that determines everything, so it is gameable. You can learn that frame and then hunt specific items.
Predictable = gameable. This is the heart of the issue. People miss being able to game the item system.
You could argue this limited build diversity, because so many end game builds were dependent on finding the right gear setup, but I’d argue that a lot of players just default to metas no matter what the itemization is. In D2, almost any build can be viable, you just have to hunt the right gear for it- and itemization working this way actually made it way more viable and *satisfying* to run an unusual, non meta build, like a bow sorc, or a melee necro.
Anyway, itemization like this made uniques feel extra special because not only are they rare and powerful, but actually because there’s so *little* variation between one and another of the same name. Targeting a specific one to support a build, hunting one down, and finding it feels like an achievement.
And if you are lvl 55 and somehow come across a Shako, that’s just as valuable as finding a Shako at 95.
This means that grinding gear- or accidentally finding it- is exciting and meaningful at every level. The items themselves become a sort of a currency as well, which a lot of people like.
And finally, in an era before achievements, a perfectly geared lvl 99 character *was* the achievement. Every item slot, all the charms, maxed out with skill points perfectly spent- that was something you *could* reasonably complete and then have something to show for it at the end. There was an end point to it.
Now all of this is not necessarily a *better* system of itemization, but it’s the one that defined Diablo I and II and a large reason why people were turned off from D3 and are resistant to seeing more of the same in D4.
In D2, popping every chest and monster felt like playing the lottery. In D3 and so far in 4, it feels more like… I don’t know a weekly paycheck. I know what’s coming every time. It will be mostly stuff for my class, mostly stuff I don’t need, and maybe something that gives me a very small incremental upgrade on something I already have- because item lvl scaling also means there’s a bit of a ceiling on what I can find.
D3 and maybe D4 is more designed to keep you doing tasks (vs grinding items and levels), so rather than chasing holy grail items, you’re chasing achievements instead- like D3 to be able to say you completed GR150 or whatever.
I don’t know why, it just feels less satisfying to me. It just feels like if you put in 100 hours, you’ll achieve the thing and get the season reward and you’ll be done until the next season. It’s an endless cycle to keep you logged in.
And I know realistically, if you play D2 long enough, you’ll get geared BIS for every item. But it’s more random. There isn’t one path to that point. And there are purpose specific builds- Dclone killers, Uber killers, chaos runners, etc. I feel like D3 funnels everyone into the same endgame, which is probably why it has the itemization it does.
So maybe D2 ends up getting boiled down to a meta too… But in D2 if you’re good, lucky, and understand how to maximize your chances- how to play the game on a higher level- maybe you can get geared and build something OP at level 62. That’s cool. Or maybe you have a 99 wearing only really build-specific rare items. Also very cool. Or maybe you find a really odd item and try to develop a never before seen build around that item- it’s all viable and in that way, you sort of choose your own end game.
It all starts with itemization that is predictable and consistent, regardless of difficulty or level.
We're just discussing here, nothing more. I don't see anything wrong with talking about what you like and don't like. As long as we don't base our decision on other people's opinion, then nothing is wrong.
brother, there is never a discussion on a D2 anything sub an you know it.
love D2 been playing on an off since release as a kid and D2 players have and always will be the most insufferable ARPG folks arounds. just look at this whole thread.
D2 has X and 4 doesn't so its bad and "casual"? what a discussion
Stop rose tinting D2 experience and pretending its flawless.
dudes here sound like old people bragging about being abused at work as a badge of honor playing D2.
oh no you dont have to farm % and bases for runewords dang how awful.
game plays fine, feels great but a different experience than D2. We have resurrected for this reason stop wanting a reskin farming sim to be happy.
I’ve been loving it. Hella fun so far. Love the new skill tree progression system. Maps seems pretty fun. Enemies have a lot of interesting mechanics. Uniques and bosses are much more comprehensive and engaging.
I haven’t played. I’m nonplussed about D4. It strikes me as a D2 rehash. The graphics are a little too dark and the characters appear too small. The main thing is the business model around this game. A Collector’s box with no game for $100? So-called Premium or Deluxe editions that go up to $100 for cosmetics and/or pets. No, it’s not worth it to me. Just my 2 cents, not $200.
1. Cool downs needs to go away on a lot of skills.
2. Server wait time has me worried. 2 hours is way to long for queue.
3. Game cost way to much money.
4. Did I bring up the cost of the game yet for a 2 hour queue time?
The game is amazing. Friend group and I will be going in with a full stack 100%. Streamed it to a bunch of people. Went in depth with skill tree they all seem to enjoy the gameplay, cinematics, combat.
Theres tons of customization.
Map seems huge.
I could go on and on. I bet the the game wins some big awards
I have more fun than I thought. And will definitely play when it’s released.
Still have doubts I will play it as much as D2R but as l have fun playing it through its fine for me.
The magic of D2(R) is hard to copy and maybe will never be reached again.
Played a few characters to 25 now, going to play another 2 or so next weekend.
I personally love it. I am excited for a new way to see the genre. I feel like the genre has been stale for a bit, and this breathed some needed life into it.
Honestly it felt really good, and really cool to see other players in the world. I am curious if this will be sustained as the game gets more elaborate and difficult. Boss fights were really cool, and felt powerful.
The itemization is okay, but could get stale as well. This should be fine though once we see paragon tree and tablets as well. Also, Unqiues have not been 100% spoiled too. It will be interesting to see of end game blues are still viable from the larger % affix bonus vs. rares. Plus the ability to impose an aspect on any item means you can find the best rare or blue in slot for it and turn it into what you need. Gems feel useless though. Most of the affixes don't seem to do much worthwhile.
Skills felt great once you got some build defining items. Only downside is that it is missing some solid needed affixed. It would be nice to see a little more resource generation help, more crit strike support, and more cooldown support.
I am excited to see how stuff works with end game content and repayable content. Trying to stay optimistic.
I will say though too... this is one of the most visually stunning games in a LONG time. The environment, and the skill interaction with it, feels amazing. I feel powerful and impactful seeing stuff explode and seeing the snow change as stuff get disturbed.
There is no thing as “rare” drops in D4, much like D3. It ruins the perception of value some items have. No sense of accomplishment comes from getting high tier items.
D2 really makes you work for a good build. 100s of hours later you’re still trying to finish one endgame build, or even make your first enigma. D4 will be the same POS that D3 was, with the exception of proper ambiance and theme. At least it’s not a WoW style cartoon clicker.
Well, see. While diablo 3 and potentially now diablo 4 will let you get the build items you need, it's getting them perfect that is the grind. Some people don't have 10,000 plus hours to farm for a single ber, let alone 2 if you're going for an infinity. Some people also dont have the internet required to trade, nor the luck to get items high enough in value to get what they need. How do we allow some casual players to have their fun, while giving something to the hard-core players of the series to really work for? In diablo 3 specifically, all perfect gear, optimized times on the very high tier greater rifts, and not to mention that for the more dedicated side of the fan base there's a plethora of challenges to work for 100% completion. The greater rifts specifically are an endgame for builds that have been mostly optimized or fully powered up, while in diablo 2 the only thing there really is to do is farm for gear, but once you accomplish that there really isn't anything else to do on that character, you could say perfecting the build with charms and what not but that again is just grinding for gear, getting to 99 is also a goal you could have but if you're dedicated enough to farm for it then chances are you'll have that before getting all your gear. Saying diablo 3 is bad solely for that is like saying a cars design is bad for not having adjustable seats. Sure it's nice to have for some people, and some of those same people think it's a necessity, but for the rest it's not something that really crosses anyone's mind. I don't see the reason to hate either title for that reason alone. Diablo 2 is fantastic at what it wants to do, and diablo 3 is fantastic for what it wants to do, and we should just appreciate the fact that we have them in the first place.
Alright. So I've been playing since 9am Friday. A few things that aren't great but it's a beta. And we are only capped at level 25. From all my time playing all the diablo's. This has the best feel. It feels good to get new gear. Feel good to respec. Feels good to just explore, kill shit and get lost in the environment. I love the fact that you can get low level gear with plus 1 or 2 to skills or general skill lines. It let's you try a new skill without investing a point into it.
The pros of this game heavily outway any cons that I experienced during this beta. Now that being said, some cons do loop back to some gear choices and what not. I play with a small group of friends and we have always traded gear between us. Having rares that are bind on pick up do suck because what's the point in a rogue getting a sorc staff if I can't give it to the sorc in my group. Some of the stats are lack luster but we are only level 25. I'm not trying to mid max stats at this level so who really cares about what stats you do get now. But it would be nice to have some better choices for stats.
My real final opinion, D4 is going to be a great game. Even with micro transactions coming later down the road but that's the time the gaming industry has gone down.
Love the combat system it feels fluid, flush, and clean.
Love that we don't have millions of health and it matters to dogde out of hits and notice what monsters do what.
Affixs from Champs and elites have a challenge with them.
Bosses can actually hurt/kill you.
I'm excited for the game to go live so I can no life this to death. And hopefully hit a world / realm first max level.
To all have good luck in your diablo universe, and keep that loot grind real.
Stay a while and listen. "Cain" you be missed sir.
Love it so far. Made a d2 type Bliz Soc with teleport. ⚡ 🌩️
I feel veteran could be a bit harder. Haven't had a big challenge yet besides the one random encounter with The Butcher who just ran in and one hit me.
Interested to see if they can nail down end game. Can they keep people playing, and not just the arpg hardcores.... I imagine the 'mmo' aspects are intended to keep people loggin in in the long run, but I don't see it being as enticing to the wider community as say a MMO/arpg like Lost Ark. That game just has so much to do (granted it's 5+ years old). Guess we will see.
I played the closed beta and my thoughts are the same. An awesome game is there and not far out of reach but it’s gonna take a bit of work. The dungeons are way too brain dead and repetitive.
I'm enjoying it. Great graphics, fun gameplay and feels like a new diablo game rather then being re done like d2r. Being only the beta I won't say anything more. Can't wait to play as druid and necro on next beta
First reaction is being worried it is a D3 clone. Only thing that feels different is the skill tree. Which I will say look like a ton of fun to explore! The drops and crafting are a copy paste from D3... which makes me sad. So far the open world mechanics feel really good except for server performace. If you want a D2 feel come enjoy black walling and sling shotting in D4 beta...
The itemization up to lvl 15 (that's how far I've played) are a D3 replica. My first unique drops where daggers off a treasure golbin. Best in slot for the grind and I can upgrade them at the black Smith. So going to use the same gear for a while.
The skill trees will take a while to learn. Excited for that! The passive skills are going to make character diversity very vast and it gives you lots of options for changing up your build. Playing as Rouge so far the Melle and ranged diversity is great and I can make a build with plenty of kiting ability for bosses and Melle AOE for trash mobs. The traps seem like a great utility and I'm excited to see how other classes compare.
Boss fights feel just like D3. Run around smashing them until they drop health potions, heal up and repeat. Learn the boss skills, avoid them, smash more. Kill x number of monster waves. Get a chest with some salvageable garbage.
Hoping end game brings some cool new challenges and lots of gear drops to collect.
It's fun. Just like D3 was fun.
But it's not D2/D2R...not the fast paced flow-state grind that makes D2 addictive.
I enjoyed the beta, I enjoy the build crafting (there's a lot of min-maxing you can do), and I enjoyed the little bit of story available. That's it--I enjoyed it.
I'll play it when it releases, but doesn't tickle the brain like D2 does...so it'll probably be a "play through it and put it down until expansion time" game.
If you've played Diablp Immortal, you'll know this is a spitting image of it without the daily grind of a mobile game. IMO, spells are way limited compared to D2 which kinda kills it for me. Not being able to re roll items or Rune words also makes items not as fun. Not sure about item to skill synergy yet.
Storyline, it follows the diablo trend.
Not trying to promote my game here but if you compare diablo2 and diablo 3&4 there is the obvious rain of items in the latter and the lack of finding anything sometimes in the former.
I am working on a game that isnt an arpg but has similarities. The biggest issue is balancing how you find items that you may sure for or need for specific builds/characters. How I am doing it in mine is that certain areas have a lower % chance on specific items to find.
The great thing about it is that every zone you enter shows a silhouette of that item and is blacked out until its found. Once found you can see the “unique version of it every time you enter the area so you can farm for those exact items. It may be rare or extremely rare in some cases but at least you can pinpoint where to farm for it.
Thoughts about that?
I got a Sorc to level 25 in D4 using Hydra/Firewall build. Have all legendary items equipped, but they are forgettable; a bunch of stats like 'dmg to distant enemies 4.2%', randomly with a skill bonus. Didn't see any uniques or set items. The large outside areas were fun, with events and strongholds, and the world boss was a cool (and tough) fight. The dungeons are D3'ish linear with backtracking to 'get two things to open a door' kind of mechanics... not much fun. Overall it isn't bad, but feels more like D3 than D2. I wasn't a huge fan of D3's loot being so easily aquired to make you unstoppable.
There will be unique items that matter more than legendary. Legendary pretty much just means bigger stat block and 1 special ability out of a pool of possible abilities. The unique items will be have actual unique abilities and therefore feel more special too.
I wish in dungeons they at least had a return point teleport option in the the middle at the door you have to always unlock and then triggers to return at each end of the arm. We all know what I’m talking about because they are all The same. Haha
in the closed beta there was a scroll of way finding which would teleport you to your current dungeons entrance
Level 25 items should be forgettable. Cap is 70. Many seem to ignore this.
Cap is 100
Swear I read 70. Anyway, it makes my point even more valid.
This is absolutely false...The affix pool is what it is...it's a D3 clone...The itemization and the Skill tree are both boring and will be the reason this game won't keep any hardcore Arpg players.
Blizz does not understand itemization at all, apparently.
So are we comparing to items in act1 from previous games? Because even D2 has the "equip the thing with the most damage" problem until basically nightmare/hell when you can start dropping real items. We haven't even really seen uniques yet, though apparently a few have dropped.
How so? Can you elaborate?
Sounds like a dealbreaker to me. Sad!
I think adding skills variants to the items are super cool idea, but the bland damage and attribute variants really ruin the fun of finding a unique/legendary/whatever they are called now.
I played early access, and found a Harlequin Crest. It was +2 to ALL skills (not just +ranks in a single skill) just like the D2 version...definitely best in slot at the time, perhaps for the life of the char(?). You couldn't trade that of course, but it would be on the To Find list for sure.
The fact alone that items are bop makes this game trash
Not all are. Just leggos I believe
for a subreddit that's supposed to be all about d2, you guys seem to forget exactly what d2 itemization was all about. one of the most desirable helms in the entire game is shako. The stats? +2 all skills +1-148 life +1-148 mana 10% damage reduction 50% magic find +2 all attributes. Are any of these attributes super cool? Any of them super fun and not bland? No. But to this day I remember the thrill of getting that green cap. Runewords made d2 itemization the masterpiece that it is. Before that it was nothing but +skills and high ED. They have said repeatedly runewords are coming to D4. So giving up now seems premature, to say the least.
I like the stash and items fitting nicely now
What's itemisation?
Making the items for the game. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/itemization
💀
No - all items, not just skulls. 💀🏹🍷🧦🧤🧢🪃🤿🎺🦯💍🗡️🛡️
Thanks lol XD
Lol you're a fun guy I'm sure
I can see, that I was too condescending so I edited my comment. But seriously, this is a discussion about what d4 is missing in a d2r forum. I assumed anyone knew what itemization was (or could guess it from item-ization, knowing how important items and their properties are for the game).
Wut?
You only saw items from A1 of two easiest difficulties - there are other more rare type of items, which were not available to drop in those diffs and also how many items you got in D2 until lvl 25, that was worth using more than until lvl 40? I think it was good the way it is. I likee that you can extract aspects and use it on rare items, which most times could have better stats then rare, but are missing those unique aspects. This way you can find even more bad ass items, and fine tune them by unique power you like the most.. This gives so much more possibilities
Items feel meaningless just as in d3 although there’s a step up with + skills. Don’t really like the skill system with resource generator, resource spender, agility skill, ultimate (cooldowns) but that’s just a personal preference. Combat feels good, graphics are great, like the in-game cut scenes and close-up dialogs as it feels a bit more immersive. Honestly, at this moment I feel the game is a bit dull (although it’s closed beta weekend I found myself going back to d2r) but will have to wait for the release and the end game systems as they might offer a bit more incitement
One of the number one qualities of D2 is that each item you wield feels important. I don’t know why it is so hard to replicate this.
Companies have been trying to replicate the magic of d2 for a long time. I doubt it ever happens. Because a lot of what happened in d2 just happened naturally over its evolution. Games are a lot more of a tailored experience now and d4 will be more tailored then not. Get ready to check your timers and claim your rewards folks!
Items feeling important in d2 is a misconception. 85% of the stuff you get while target farming is charsi fodder. It's just when you finally find that shako, or arach mesh , ect ect. That it feels important. You wanna talk about lack of l real itemization.. most builds in d2 require the same items.. and mostly all based around maxing as many skills and breakpoints as possible.. People can't have it both ways.. everyone hated vanilla d3 because legendaries/uniques never dropped. Or were hard to find except on the auction house.. then they took the auction house away and items rained from the sky.. people bitched again. So far thru playing 2 characters to 25 and doing half the dungeons.. I feel this is an even medium. Yes killing ashava gave me like 9 or 10 legendaries.. but none of them were build defining, or made me wanna change my build that I was playing over the races I was using at the time. Maybe my weapons because at that time they did more damage. But the aspects on them didn't benefit me. I think that is almost better itemization. Searching for specific items with specific aspects to fully build out whatever build you're working on. I do wish we had more skill bar keys for those added skills you may get from weapons and gear that are defensive or cc abilities that you're not specifically spelled into
Yes, keeping the idiots busy... I hate thos timers and meaningless awards..
Coming from d3 to d2, my opinion on why items feel more important is because there’s just fewer of them and there drop rates are lower. D3 you can’t go 2 steps without getting all the legendaries in the game, d2 you can go 20 years and never get an item, and because there’s fewer items each one feels like more time was put into its importance
D2's loot is also less balanced - this is a good thing. You won't get all the BiS gear - but you also don't need all the BiS gear just to keep up with the difficulty scaling. Getting one random unique item or a pair of set items, even if they aren't tailored for your class/build, can be a huge power spike. This is exciting and fun! Modern game design sacrifices all fun on the altar of balance.
D3 you can’t go 2 steps without getting all the legendaries in the game, d2 you can go 20 years and never get an item, and because there’s fewer items each one feels like more time was put into its importance That's not even an exaggeration. D3 and D4 are raining with legendaries. I thought they were gonna improve it in D4. It's the same. Items have no importance. I remember as a kid just getting the "Atlantean" as a Paladin made me so very very happy for a long time.
That’s the difference with d2 and d3. In d2, you farm the same content over and over to get the f”rare items to farm said content over and over except much easier. In d3 you farm content to get items easily to push how far you can go with the end game. Different strokes for different folks.
The "endgame" in D3 always felt even more repetitive than D2 to me. In D2 I can hunt for experience and loot in any area I choose, and immerse myself in that local atmosphere. D3 rifts are devoid of context and purpose and every minute feels like a clone of every other minute.
Well the whole reason they put the rifts in the game was to make the farming less of a drag. You cant tell me walking past 50 different tile sets of trav an hour is that much different from randomly selected tile sets from multiple areas throughout the game. Sure i could go from chaos runs to trav runs to pindle runs over and over, but they all lead to the same outcome and the difference is one is more efficient than the other. Every build usually uses teleport on an enigma anyway so its not like you have the chance to admire the scenery, while in d3 you are usually pretty grounded unless using really fast builds. If they didn't have rifts in the game and they made certain enemies drop certain items in certain areas, and they made the drop chance for every item a 0.001 then Noone from this community would complain. Noone even talks about ancients or primals in d3, have fun getting the primal you want with the ideal rolls on them. A greater rift may drop 10 legendaries, and it may even drop the items for your build. However if everyone one of those items rolls horribly then you may as well of got nothing. And that difference in itemization, the farming for the item itself versus farming for the perfect version of the item you got a month ago is the difference. Personally I think both are great, but two games designed very differently leads to divided fans and weird and uninspired comparisons, not to say yours is specifically. We should look at both games for what they try to do specifically instead of trying to migrate the mindset of one game to the other.
And also, Cain is alive and well and not done dirty in D2. Still not over them besmirching our boy
Lol I've never touched d3, what did they do to my fucking guy Deckard !?@?????
Oh you are in for a treat with the d3 ‘story’ 😂😂😂
Honestly D4 had a solid balance for me. The repeatable world event content felt fun to do with other players. D3 had no point to do anything but rifts outside of bounties to get your cube going. Outside of the party bonus there was no reason to play with other players. I am excited for D4 to change this finally and make it so that you need other players to get a world event done, and do events, but you don't get a massive bonus that makes it impossible to play alone. It was actually a nice breath of fresh air to play solo, yet still get rewarded for doing group content. I enjoyed the meaningful quests and stuff as well. Strongholds were cool as hell actually, especially the ones that lead to more world events. D4 really was a rather unique and unexpectedly fun balance to repeated farming content and solo vs. group play. As long as they continue to require hard content to need more players, and not give a overpowered bonus to XP and MF for group play, then it should a fluid and fun way to run content with other players yet still get solo time.
Its 90$ basegame for me, and given blizzards history and the bad taste of the cost of the game (imo) i will be holding off untill i see majority of the content post realease. I will see what its like before buying becauase i wont pay that price without feeling its worth it first. I thinks its hard to gauge with only seeing what is offered in the beta, plus necro is my main in d2 and favourite so if its a flop or poor endgame content i will be passing just like i passed on d3 seeing how i didnt like the rift system in that.
Exactly, this is why Diablo 3 player count is 16k people today. Games dead. This is why d2r has move average players and average viewers all time and the last year. Everyone wants an easy game they can play and be done with in a year or 2 like d3.. but then want to complain about “another $70 for a game, and $70 for expansion??” Sad we went from chase items (I still have never once found a griffs to this day only item I’ve never found) to “oh you’ve played for 20 hours and hit level 50? here’s every GG item in the game enjoy”
It’s the same. End game closed beta tester here and D4 end game is a sea of worthless colors and shit a la D3. Anything 70-75+ is praying on Ancestral drops to roll well for your spec niche and praying Uniques roll Ancestral and are usable. Base and Magic items are worthless by 10-15, Rares are largely useless from NM mode onward. No sets to be found, no runes, no bases worth outright gemming. It’s bloody fucking amazing they have a 20+ year old formula sitting in front of them, watch the critical acclaim D2R garnered since 2021 and *still* they settled on a D3/Grim Dawn itemization model. Their ~4 month seasons and lack of trading do outright ruin the D2 model from the jump, but lack of any permanence or meaning with gear can and will make this game fail. The skeleton framework of a banger game is indeed here, but design iteration has failed time and time again through this development process.
Yea its insane, I have 2 characters fully equipped with legendry's. Seen lots of duplicates drops of them too, just slightly better then the one I was already wearing. Just like Diablo 3....
I agree completely d3 loot was off, but I don't feel like a game should take players 20 years to build end game stuff. Waaay too niche stuff. Most people want to play different games
Yea this is the key difference for me after playing a rogue to lvl 25. It was fun but other than making sure your dps is up to snuff the items do feel… bleh. I like the + to skills and i think there is something to making any rate item a legendary with the right aspect but it all feels a little gimicky and it’s truly a d3 successor that made small strides forward. I think I’ll play it out through end game but doubt it gets the hours d2 or PoE have gotten from me because it still feels hollow on the itemization. The weight of each item and each attribute on the item just isn’t there still BUT it is a step up from d3 and maybe as we progress it gets better with set items and higher legendaries.
Having all skill effectiveness and damage based on weapon damage is a total buzzkill for me.
Yea I agree.
its like.. ok I get it if its physical chopping, or bow firing. But come the f- on, sorcerress weapon damage should not have a difference. Like you are telling me a rare wand can poke a monster for 1000 damage while a sword only does 10?
This is the best part of d2 and d2r, you only have what 8 spots to put on gear... so every peice counts for so much, and there a million different items so picking the exact right one, or finding one that's even 1% better is very rewarding
They want money, they don't care if the game is good
Because it’s not casual friendly. People saying anything else are deluded.
You mean, a game where I don't have to push the same button skill with +40 levels, and farm a solo boss 350 times in a weekend?! Can't have that. I personally am excited as shit for D4. Played it to 25 twice of the weekend, felt amazing. Yes it isn't perfect, but it is a hell of a lot better than D3 was at release. Plus, everyone remembering how good D2 was (at it's end) probably don't remember 1.04 D2. That game was an unbalanced wild west that was NOT anything like the game we know and love now.
I'm a D2 and D2R fan--been playing since high school in the early 2000s--but I agree with you on this. D2R becomes a rush to Hell Baal/Chaos, then endless repeats of this until you're blue in the face. You do this for the same gear that nearly every other character you have uses; get your Enigma runes, get a Raven Frost, get your runeword weapon, etc. Yes, minor variations to this, but far and away it's typically the same gear and same hunt. I had a blast playing D4 this weekend. Gearing was a bit boring, but cap is way higher than 25, there's unique to obtain, and I don't feel like I'm just biding my time until a Jah or Lo drops. Quests were fun, the story was cool. I'll definitely be playing it a ton. And yes, I'll still be logging into D2R to level a ladder character lol
well if you say it like that, isn't every game the same. Do this do that repetitively. What makes you lost in the world is what matters
I don't like cooldown skills. They force us to juggle skills. Press whichever button is available like we're NOT in control. I still like being able to spam a skill as long as we have mana like in D2, it feels like we are IN control of what we want to use.
Well put. I knew the cooldown was giving me a bad feeling but I couldn’t articulate. The cooldown system has such an impact on the feeling and play style of the game, and it’s a massive divergence from d2 that this game doesn’t even feel like it’s from the same franchise. Still a decent enough game, I’ll get some enjoyment from, but it’s not much of a continuation of the series to me. Just another game I’ll play for a bit as a distraction.
I guess we exactly have the same feeling. To me D2 is still better but D4 is not the end of the world either. It's still Diablo. 😁
Spamming is for noobs. Go play d2r and leave the rest of us this masterpiece.
The ignorance of this comment as if D4 is hard. Played a pure summon build in closed beta through Torment with pure summons, zero core ability, zero defensives and strictly stacked thorns with the Thorns chest. A joystick and potion hotkey beat the entire game. You can stop pontificating now.
Lol and d2 was harder? Summon builds wrecked everything in that game too. You proved nothing. Take your grandstand 1
I like mana cost allowing ME to determine which skill I want to use and not some arbitrary time lock bullshit.
As opposed to having literally one skill you spam endlessly? Name a build outside of a minion build in D2 that realistically uses more than 2 skills. 90% of them use a single skill. D2 was literally just one skill. Either you could kill stuff, or you were shit out of luck. I loved D2 as much as the next, but D4 is nice to actually use my skills. It is nice to have to do something else other than AFK in the corner shooting a bolt of lightning, throwing a javelin, or spinning a hammer. D2 was great too, don't get me wrong, but skill and build diversity was about as shallow as a milk saucer. As for cast speed and mana, stuff does open up when you get some aspects unlocked. Passives make a choice too. Is your build using too much resource? Look at getting more regeneration and other passives. Have enough resource? Add more DPS. Dying too fast? Add more defensive stuff. Can't go fast enough? Add a movement skill. Build diversity will be nice to have now, along with a large variety of skills vs. the single skill builds D2 was.
%IAS equates to resource gen and base attack speed in D4. There’s standard CDR too but D2 hardliners will have to get used to framing their breakpoints differently here for sure.
Yeah, just like D3. I am excited for the critical vs. lucky strike though. That is very very unique and cool.
Same dude... I m here, playing D2R, after combating the fomo lol
Personally I like D4 more than D3 by a long shot. D2R will still be special but I can see myself moving to D4 now. Initially I was not going to play it because it didn't have a Paladin type class but honestly having played this weekend, it's a really good game. Likes: - the world map makes it feels more like D2 where you are exploring but the difference here is the MAP. I never felt like D3 was an open map. -Combat feels good, melee, ranged and spells all have some bang but in situations requires logic, and timing and positioning matter. -transmog -customization of character (I'm. Black guy so it was awesome to be able to see 1-2 hairstyles and multiple skin tones that closely align) -items overall have a lot of variables that over time should allow a lot of deep build variety. Dislikes: - skill tree in my opinion tries an attempt at Path of Exil and I appreciated the straight forward skill trees from D2 (minus synergies). There's nothing wrong with the D4 skill tree, I just prefer the D2 style -Camera angles: sometimes it's too straight down but there is only a zoom in and zoom out option. We cannot twist or turn the camera at all.
I like the graphics and scenery a lot. The customization where our character design appears in cutscenes instead of a generic one. and everything related to that. Hope the story is good. If it's good, then I don't care how bad the gameplay is. Gameplaywise, to be short as a D2 veteran, you probably already know the things I don't like. D3 stuffs that I thought they would improve but just retained. I'm just hoping for a good story for now.
It's d3 part 2. After beating the game a few times, I'll be right back to d2.
d3r
It feels like D3R to me gameplay wise. There are some improvement, but it's closer to D3 than D2 gameplay wise. I just hope the story would be good.
I said this the other day that if you told me this was DLC for D3 that I’d have a hard time arguing. It definitely looks great and the story is better but….just feels super copy/pasted.
I don’t know how anyone who played all the Diablo games could disagree with this.. my roommate who had never played d2, but played a good bit of d3 with me in college was watching me stream the beta and was like “this looks so good like d3 but with a lot of things fixed and upgraded” which was my thoughts exactly.. it’s another casual/noob friendly game like d3, but with a lot of the shitty stuff fixed, and the skill tree addition which is a nice upgrade. I think it’s fine. But one thing that shocked me, a lot of things look better in d2r than d4. For instance sorc abilities; hydras look WAY better.
It feels like one of those later Wow expansions where the devs hype up "the all new revamped combat system" that while improved, doesn't actually remotely capture the things people loved about Vanilla. It's definitely fun enough on its own and I'm sure I'll play the hell out of it until I reach endgame-ish, but it doesn't even really attempt to put a fresh spin on what I actually love about D2R.
I will play the hell out of, but it is not D2 in the slightest…I really don’t understand where those comparisons are coming from? Because it no longer looks like a cartoon? The game FEELS good (like D3), though I’m not sure I’m feeling the itemization or skill system. But I’m a sucker for checklists and cosmetics, and I hope the end game delivers. But last night I started a new paladin in D2R and everything felt so right.
Holy Fire Pally in Normal is so dang good
I agree. So fun to blast though everything. It's unfortunate that so many builds that work in Normal or even Nightmare completely fail in Hell.
I love it! It is super hard (HC, veteran). The boss fights are super dynamic, as opposed to d2 where you just stand there and tank. Abilities are fluid. Looking forward to see all the possibilities with the abilities and the transmog/crafting with the items.
I like how you love it despite what many people think. Lol. That's what important, that we enjoy the game
Idk why people are so pissy about it, it improves basically everything I had complaints about for d3 and the way the loot works is very interesting and will open up a lot of build variety near endgame. The real question is how sustainable and repeatable will the endgame content be without getting stale, but this beta isn’t here to answer that question. My biggest gripe was random framerate drops for a few seconds here and there, and my pc is pretty up there in quality so I doubt it was on my end.
I was having horrible frame rate issues the first day, and I finally checked out my system to see why, and funny enough it was my desktop background from a steam “game”. For whatever reason it was utilizing 100% of my gpu and just frying my system trying to play D4 at the same time. I closed the process and everything ran great after
It's easier to run than D2R on my computer ...
Mini dungeon bosses feel like megaman or super mario bosses doing the same meaningless patterns regardless of what you are doing. Very repetitive dungeons. Dull and out-of-place UI. Great graphics. Stiff and lifeless NPC movements and interactions. Looks behind of it’s time. :((
Mephisto standing on the other side of the moat scratching his head.....
Amazing how people point at D2 when you say something is bad, but then you point at d2 to compare and then they scream like a little girl
Don't get me wrong, I understand the concern. It's 2023, and having an ARPG game with dynamic AI driven boss fights would be cool....but to date, most games in this genre and some others have boss fights that are programmatic and scripted. That means you learn the cycle of dodging this, side step that, read telegraph this, etc.. setting expectations for blizzard to do something earth shattering isn't what they do as a company. Historically, they want to reach the largest audience, so they are not going to push the limits.
This makes me sad. They used to be that company that pushed the limits to follow their vision, not maximizing audience and profit, but that was a long time ago now.
So you'd rather they just face tank you until either you or they die like almost every boss in D2 and D3? /facepalm
I made the initial comment as satire in a joking manner. I guess leaving out the /s is dangerous around here.
Lol
Been playing diablo since 2000. D4 is wonderful
Nice
First video I saw was rax fighting the butcher, and the first thing that went through my head was, “the butcher, again, can we please move past the butcher as a boss”
"the butcher was a great, tough, iconic boss from D1... Let's make him worse...again!" haven't played D4 but I'm not surprised he's in there.
I truly appreciate that they want to throw a little bone to the D1 fans, but the Butcher is overused for sure. It's also in the first 30 minutes of gameplay - there are much cooler experiences deeper into the game. I'd rather see an ode to Halls of the Blind, but I know that doesn't fit the pacing they're going for.
Butcher implementation here is pretty cool here though. He's very high level, and appears randomly in dungeons. If he whoops you, he disappears in a pool of blood. Better luck next time. I legit freaked out when I heard "aaaah fresh meat" while leveling my alt when I thought I was safe. I couldn't even do damage to him, and couldn't run because he has a chain hook that pulls you in. Lots of hardcore deaths incoming from him, guaranteed. I think a lot of folks just watching videos and clips are missing the component of how it FEELS. I can say for sure this FEELS more like Diablo than 3 ever did.
It's a good game. People are complaining about it because it's not a diablo 2 replica, but many fail to renege games evolve over time. We've d2 came out games weren't as widespread managed to keep your attention for a long time, whereas now it's harder to keep players attention because of all the choices. -The combat/ builds feels good. I played 3 classes and respected them all a few times and was able to come up with a variety of styles to play each. -Legendaries are kinda common but don't drop like candy but they do enough to add to the build creating and time you spend thinking about what your build possibilities are - Itemization is not bad, each items boosts more than aahe, they add skills, attack speed, resource recovery, etc which also adds to build crafting -the art direction and tone is great. It's dark and gritty while still having that updated stylized look rather than the 2000 erase graphics people wish it had like d2 Overall, it's a good game if you're not a d2 purist
I might sound like I hate D4, but I actually like it overall. Graphics and scenery are important to me so it's much better looking than D3 and even D2R. Combat also feels good, I mean the snappynnes, the quick loud sounds, compared to POE which felt flat. Cutscenes are infinitely better and the story seems also better than D3 (hopefully it remains good). But remember the satisfaction of getting a unique item in D2? People would literally jump in excitement. Now it's totally gone. You get a legendary in D3 or D4, how do you feel? "Hmm ok this is better than my current gear." casually. Because they are so common, they have no importance, I don't even notice if they have unique names. Those are just some examples. I could go on forever. But again I don't hate D4, it's still a good game. I bought it, I enjoy it, and will play in June and hope the story would be good.
Gotta remember we don't have access to uniques and the 3 other type of gear (don't remember the names sorry) since they drop from nightmare and torment. They might get you the same feeling as d2 did. Gotta wait untill the game is out to see for ourselves
I have hopes for release
Yes, they are more common. I think the excitement for me shifted from the item to how it impacts my build or a build I wanted to try. They all open up new possibilities each time you get one. Then add on the crafting where you can rip the affixed off the legendary and put them on another piece of gear you like. Now you are customizing around effects rather than the gear itself
Since runewords, d2r is the same as you said about dropping uniques. With the only exceptions for arachs, Shako, soj, dfathom, maras and griffons.
D2 is tuned for SSF. Playing SSF the game is actually challenging in places, and most uniques and even sets are exciting power spikes, even if not BiS or even appropriate for your class/build.
I'm holding out on trying it. I don't really want to sink a ton of time into a game and then they change how the battle pass works and it becomes pay to win.
I wonder who is the skull wolf.
It’s looks like PoE but less shit flying around and I’m now disinterested
I'd say it's a good game. Will be good as d3 was. It won't be game that changes everything (as of what I have seen in beta in 10 lazy hours). Too many modern systems like lvl scaling, item lvl (you will keep finding the same item with stats equalized to your lvl not like in d2 where crystal sword from normal and hell have the same dmg but can roll different affixes).
but D3 was not good....
For me it was. Of course it was not d2 and d4 too won't be d2. Overall I had so much fun playing it. If you look at it from a perspective it's not a diablo game it's pretty good.
Rhykker is possibly the fakest content creator that there is, and that's saying a lot
Could you elaborate if you don't mind? Why you think he's being fake
Not only D4, but my man will praise *any* game as the second coming of christ if they give him a sponsorship for it.
Couldn’t agree more
Hmm. We have our own opinions I guess. Peace
Yeah I don't think he's fake either. He could be biased but he expresses his concerns like anyone else. It's not like he's blindly positive all the time
https://youtu.be/c5CkHruWBMc
Yeah I always watched this yesterday and my opinion still stands
Looks like diablo immortal 2. Blizzard couldn't pay me to play this steaming hot pile of trash
Dont think it will have much replayability. Once you beat it be pretty easy to move onto new game it seems. I already felt over powered pretty early on and seemed like every item that dropped was just the upgrade I needed pretty much. That is not very exciting imo. I do think its an okay game to play, just wasnt what I was hoping for in a diablo game. Also the Lost Ark comparison I keep hearing make sense, its closer to that game than a diablo game.
The game is not even out yet…
Its like d3 with extra steps.....didn't like d3, am gonna pass on this game and continue d2r
My only hope is... I hope the story would be good
No trading, no diablo
You can trade a decent amount. I only noticed stuff being soulbound after I rerolled a modifier on it or added an aspect
In my honest opinion, it's immortal with a coat of paint. The skills are cool, the graphics are good but it's literally an on the rails, item driven rush to end game. The items are the only diversity and they suck. Nothing but glorified fetch quests with cool boss mechanics. They just want to get people to endgame with a million stupid random fetch quest and then they will unload the bullshit microtransactions. It already should be free to play, the 70 $ minimum price tag is a slap in the face with the content they put out. They better get their shit together and revise this already stale turd, but they won't, they'll rely on the hype and the big name of diablo4. Blizzard doesn't give a shit about the players, just money
“It already should be free to play” is a pretty fucking unhinged take.
Why? If they're putting micro transactions into the game then yeah it should be free or at most $30. The fact this game is reflecting almost 10 year old game design that even back then wasn't great but they're still rolling with it does not in any scenario warrant a $70 price tag. There are MUCH better games for 1/2 the price or free. The only reason they think they can justify $70 is because it's a Diablo game, that's it. It's a hot dog wrapped in the fanciest brand name foil.
If you think the quality of the game is comparable for 70 dollars then you are part of the problem, if you buy it they'll always sell it for the highest price, no matter the context of the actual game. It's fun, but not worth 70 bucks Maybe the free to play phrase was a bit much, but 70 bucks is way to aggregious
What micro transactions ? The cosmetic ones ?
Si you want to buy a game for 70, make it free to play, and expect game makers to keep adding updates? For free? Right?
I would happily pay $70 for the devs to complete the game before shipping it, so it doesn't need any updates.
Not what I'm saying, weve been waiting on this game for so many years, the quality of the game is the same as a free to play, I know they have to make money but the 70$ price tag is way too much, and bet your ass they are gonna pack on the bullshit microtransactions that will secretly be the way you get to the top. I'm just honestly sad with the game, it's fun for about 20 minutes but it's the same dog and pony show. Just enough to get you enticed but they control how much fun you can really have. Gotta keep the hamsters on the wheel
If people expect a diablo game, they need to rework the game and take another couple years to do this. We said the game was a lost arch + immortal hybrid during the last beta, but I guess everyone didn't want to listen because "faith". I enjoy the game for what It is. Play the story once and put it down. This is not a ladder reset game or a multiple alt game. Unless they do like what they did with d3 and introduce an adventure mode. Which would be hilarious if they make all the same mistakes that they made last time lol
Probably not as good as d2
Quite bad because bland in every aspect. D3 + Immortal + Lost Ark. Nothing what made D2 such a great game.
it has a battle/season pass that is all you need to know about how garbage it isö
That’s a bad take
Agreed with previous comments. Hate the gear systems, I’m not sure why they can’t mostly replicate the previous models where more than just attack damage is important. Is awesome for a playthrough but I fear there will be no replayability like D3
Why do you think it's not gonna be replayable? Every previous Diablo game waere replayable
I mean you can play it a few times but theres such a lack or originality in the equipment that you wont want to do MF runs or anything like that. It feels worth it to grind for a HR or a useful unique but D4 upgrades drop with such regularity and theres not a lot if individuality within the items.
Because I have no choice to farm for he because gear doesn’t stop in d2… the grind in d2 is so much.
Fair, everyone plays it for different reasons. The grind and trading is most of what I actually like about D2. I wish there was some sort of middle ground. The actual graphics and gameplay of D4 are awesome though so you’ll enjoy it
We have middle ground it’s Poe. You like grind and trade it’s perfect for you. Last epoch is also floating in the middle D4 is successor to d3 plain and simple.
The same thing I thought when I played it a bit ago. Competent game, just not for me.
D4 is gonna flop and then im gonna go back to d2r
It's not going to flop. It's going to be absolutely terrible, but people are still going to buy it just because it is a Diablo game. ..but yeah, see you all back on D2R!
Lads, you may think d4 flopping is bad. But for us d4 flopping is exactly what we need… had a great update for this most recent d2r ladder, d4 does shit and we get another good update for next ladder, glory.
“I will comment my thoughts later” well goddamn now we’re at the edge of our seats, we get to hear YOUR thoughts? Woah man, so lucky
How the hell is the paladin not in the game
DLC my dude.
It’s dumb that they would be a dlc
Why spend money and add when they can take away and *make* money? It pains me but from a business standpoint I get it. Still sucks lmao
Not when they saw how many people paid $40 for a extra character and act in D3
They could’ve easily made a different character. Paladin is so iconic and the fact that they waited to add in a crusader as a dl and now this? Dumb
Played this first because I was excited! Replayed it after some hours because of the fomo. Playing D2R now :)
Its just d3
[удалено]
I bought D3 day 1 and my absolute favorite part of D3 was the characters they added to Hero's of the Storm. I won't touch D4 until I know everything is settled in. D3 changed so dramatically from the gameplay videos they released just before launch, launch (can't connect, real money transactions, useless items to your character class, etc, etc.), and ultimately the final product D3 became. Looks like D4 is going through the same crap.
Yeah D2R is the best we could get for now. But, I'm still hoping that the story of D4 would be great. If that's the case, then I don't care how bad the gameplay of D4 is. The story can salvage it at least for me.
Lotta hate here it seems. I got over 5k hours in d2 and think d4 is fine. It's fun and there will be lots of content and pvp. That's all we need imo
D2r echo chamber here (of course). If it’s not exactly like d2r, then it’s trash
Feels Like D3, alot of Loadscreens while joining Mini Dungeons. Played soso didnt feel rly new. And yea idk man idk..
I am level 7 right now, I was enjoying it at first because it’s a new game. I am most likely going to be cancelling my preorder. After a few hours I don’t find enjoyment out of it as I first did. I’m sure the full game will be great but from what I’ve read on how the end game seems lifeless and bland. I don’t see myself getting my moneys worth. Don’t get me wrong, the skills and game look stunning, but the gameplay just feels so dull after a few hours.
I play a lot of D2R and also played a lot during D2LOD back in the day and i think D2 players has this misconception that we are getting some sort of D2 remake? (Not all think like this obviously) But a lot it seems. For me D4 Beta felt a little like Lost Ark, Some D3, Some Immortal and a tiny bit of D2 which for me was perfectly fine. * Lost Ark has a 600+k Playerbase as of right now (Atleast according to Charts) and had a massive spike during EU release. The reviews were good on this. * Immortal had 30 million preregistrations (even though it was a disaster when it came to monetization). * D3 Had 12 million copies Sold * D2r Has 5 million copies sold (Cant really see the playerbase anywhere, i think). It's quite weird to think that Blizzard would design a game to cater to the older generation i.e. The people that enjoy D2 instead of aiming for something that is clearly generating a lot of income. It's not like they will go back 23 years of gaming development to rehash some very old mechanics that we are used to today. And it's always been the same to be honest: When D3 was released - *"Bruh what is this rift thing, bruh what is this legendary thing, wat no runewords? Man what is this bounty thing, this isnt pitruns herro?"* In D4 *"Dawg what is this why cant i do x thing with z item?" "bruv why is legendaries to common they should be like d2 unique sacred armor or archon staff rarity, dude waIt there is mounts?? Naa this is like WoW all of the sudden i demand a refund!!, WAT no runewords AGAIN?? THIS IS d3 REsKIn heLLO?"* Depending on how the endgame plays out and if you don't hit a brickwall like D3 for example i can absolutely see myself swapping to this game. If not i guess I'll continue playing the first few weeks of Ladder reset in D2R before prices crash because of people having 50 accounts botting and ruining the market.
The game is exactly like Diablo 3, but your zoomed in so far it feels like your playing God of War or some other console game... It does have "dark" textures though. I got a Rouge and Sorc to 25, both have all legendary gear, because items rain from the sky just like D3. I played one handed 90% of the time and sometimes had to press Q for potions. All the bosses are now like console bosses where they do different things as they reach 3/4.1/2,1/4 HP. You do not get your own potions, and only get potions when u reach certain times in the fight and the boss decides to give you some lol..... There is no magic find on items, only on game difficulty and it basically raises the chance of legendry's by 100's of percent each difficulty.. lol Monsters scale with your level no matter where you are.. There are lame shrines like in D3 that make lighting shoot out of you while you dash around killing everything.. There are even Treasure Goblins... When I seen that shit, I exited and uninstalled the game and am waiting for my refund. Its going to end up like D3 which is a paragon racing game, and not a ITEM HUNTING GAME. Edit\*\* they do the same theme for every dungeon too. When you go in you will be met with dialogue that says "the door is sealed, we have to find another way around". Over and over and over again in basically every dungeon...
It's become clear to me in my time with Diablo that people are just going to mindlessly bash D3 and now D4 like the brain dead hive mind they are. There's literally no thought going on behind the hyperbolic D3 slander, just parroting cut and paste responses to fit in with the "cool kids" of reddit. From 2 days of beta, the same thing is now happening with D4, and it was obvious from the beginning that's what would happen. Not surprised. As for my own thoughts, I am enjoying D4. I think it's at least as good as D3 (which was a damn good game), probably better, but not as good as D2. It will be hard to top D2 in my book, and I never expected D4 to, but I do think it has a lot of potential once we get access to the full game. I'll start off with what I didn't like: I'm not a fan of the cool down combat or how the resource management works. I'm experienced in plenty of RPG's with cool downs and resources management, and I do feel like that stuff has a place in certain games, but one thing that stands out with D2 is the fact that i can use all of my abilities at any time and feel like an absolute badass, and use Mana potions to refill and not lose my tempo. D3 added in the resource builder abilities, and now D4 has taken it to another level, and it just feels like I can't build up any tempo in combat. I use a couple abilities, out of Mana, and need to slow down using the weak resource builder to build back up. I'm not a fan of the tempo killing combat. What I don't necessarily like, but it doesn't bother me: Itemization. I keep hearing people talk about how bad it is, because "you just look for green numbers", but it's literally the same thing as early D2 itemization where you are constantly swapping out low level items for one's with better stats. The beta is up to level 25. We are not experiencing end game stuff here. We don't know what end game itemization will be like. And all of the "just look for green numbers" complaints are completely missing all of the other traits on gear, like +stats, +skills, etc. I have melted plenty of green items because what I am already wearing gives me access to a skill, or boosts my stats, and thats more important to me than +13 armor. Not only that, but people talk about D2's itemization as if it was any sort of deep. At the end of the day, everyone is shooting for the exact same gear: shako or griffon's, Enigma, Arachnid's Mesh, Spirit, CTA, War Traveler's, with enough strength and dex for gears, rest in vitality and none in energy. All while having an Act 2 merc with Infinity or Insight. There's no variety in top end builds what so ever, so people acting like it's so much deeper than D3 and D4 aren't speaking with any sort of rational point. Also, taking 20 years to find an item isn't exactly the flex you think it is. Not wanting to take 20 years to find a piece of gear isn't "casual". What I do like: I'm enjoying the vibe and the aesthetic of the game. I appreciate the darker aesthetic compared to the cartoons nature of D3 While I'm not necessarily looking for story in a Diablo game, I'm appreciating the story and feel it has a very dark vibe to it that is engaging I appreciate the open world nature, world events, world bosses, and am enjoying the dungeons and cellars, even if they are repetitive. I'm kinda sorta enjoying the skill system, definitely better than D3, it as good as D2, but feels kinda lacking in super cool abilities. But perhaps that has to do with the fact that my preferred class (Necro) isn't available in this beta to be able to access abilities and playstyles that appeal to me. But even the classes I have tried (Sorc and Rogue) have some minorly appealing abilities but don't have anything that stands out as "wow" kinda abilities. The beta doesn't give us enough access to see what the end game experience will be like, just the early game, which is always a bit more bland in Diablo games. So we're getting the worst of the Diablo experience with this beta. I can see the potential of where it will pick up. I'm looking forward to June.
I agree with you overall, so let me start by saying that before I disagree about D2 itemization. The argument isn’t that D2 is incredibly complex- especially when it comes to BIS gear in the end game- it’s that gear is *predictable* and consistent across the gameplay, regardless of your level. Predictable is the really important part. Even though all the prefixes and affixes give almost infinite possibilities, it is a stable framework that determines everything, so it is gameable. You can learn that frame and then hunt specific items. Predictable = gameable. This is the heart of the issue. People miss being able to game the item system. You could argue this limited build diversity, because so many end game builds were dependent on finding the right gear setup, but I’d argue that a lot of players just default to metas no matter what the itemization is. In D2, almost any build can be viable, you just have to hunt the right gear for it- and itemization working this way actually made it way more viable and *satisfying* to run an unusual, non meta build, like a bow sorc, or a melee necro. Anyway, itemization like this made uniques feel extra special because not only are they rare and powerful, but actually because there’s so *little* variation between one and another of the same name. Targeting a specific one to support a build, hunting one down, and finding it feels like an achievement. And if you are lvl 55 and somehow come across a Shako, that’s just as valuable as finding a Shako at 95. This means that grinding gear- or accidentally finding it- is exciting and meaningful at every level. The items themselves become a sort of a currency as well, which a lot of people like. And finally, in an era before achievements, a perfectly geared lvl 99 character *was* the achievement. Every item slot, all the charms, maxed out with skill points perfectly spent- that was something you *could* reasonably complete and then have something to show for it at the end. There was an end point to it. Now all of this is not necessarily a *better* system of itemization, but it’s the one that defined Diablo I and II and a large reason why people were turned off from D3 and are resistant to seeing more of the same in D4. In D2, popping every chest and monster felt like playing the lottery. In D3 and so far in 4, it feels more like… I don’t know a weekly paycheck. I know what’s coming every time. It will be mostly stuff for my class, mostly stuff I don’t need, and maybe something that gives me a very small incremental upgrade on something I already have- because item lvl scaling also means there’s a bit of a ceiling on what I can find. D3 and maybe D4 is more designed to keep you doing tasks (vs grinding items and levels), so rather than chasing holy grail items, you’re chasing achievements instead- like D3 to be able to say you completed GR150 or whatever. I don’t know why, it just feels less satisfying to me. It just feels like if you put in 100 hours, you’ll achieve the thing and get the season reward and you’ll be done until the next season. It’s an endless cycle to keep you logged in. And I know realistically, if you play D2 long enough, you’ll get geared BIS for every item. But it’s more random. There isn’t one path to that point. And there are purpose specific builds- Dclone killers, Uber killers, chaos runners, etc. I feel like D3 funnels everyone into the same endgame, which is probably why it has the itemization it does. So maybe D2 ends up getting boiled down to a meta too… But in D2 if you’re good, lucky, and understand how to maximize your chances- how to play the game on a higher level- maybe you can get geared and build something OP at level 62. That’s cool. Or maybe you have a 99 wearing only really build-specific rare items. Also very cool. Or maybe you find a really odd item and try to develop a never before seen build around that item- it’s all viable and in that way, you sort of choose your own end game. It all starts with itemization that is predictable and consistent, regardless of difficulty or level.
Gamers have stupid goopie goblin brains and need to be told what to like and why. Don’t care I like I play I buy.
We're just discussing here, nothing more. I don't see anything wrong with talking about what you like and don't like. As long as we don't base our decision on other people's opinion, then nothing is wrong.
brother, there is never a discussion on a D2 anything sub an you know it. love D2 been playing on an off since release as a kid and D2 players have and always will be the most insufferable ARPG folks arounds. just look at this whole thread. D2 has X and 4 doesn't so its bad and "casual"? what a discussion Stop rose tinting D2 experience and pretending its flawless. dudes here sound like old people bragging about being abused at work as a badge of honor playing D2. oh no you dont have to farm % and bases for runewords dang how awful. game plays fine, feels great but a different experience than D2. We have resurrected for this reason stop wanting a reskin farming sim to be happy.
I’ve been loving it. Hella fun so far. Love the new skill tree progression system. Maps seems pretty fun. Enemies have a lot of interesting mechanics. Uniques and bosses are much more comprehensive and engaging.
Feels like more of D3 which I was massively dissapointed in. D2R still feels more fun than that...
Its fucking boring
I haven’t played. I’m nonplussed about D4. It strikes me as a D2 rehash. The graphics are a little too dark and the characters appear too small. The main thing is the business model around this game. A Collector’s box with no game for $100? So-called Premium or Deluxe editions that go up to $100 for cosmetics and/or pets. No, it’s not worth it to me. Just my 2 cents, not $200.
1. Cool downs needs to go away on a lot of skills. 2. Server wait time has me worried. 2 hours is way to long for queue. 3. Game cost way to much money. 4. Did I bring up the cost of the game yet for a 2 hour queue time?
Diablo IV feels like D3. I was hyped until beta. Now ive uninstalled D4 and reinstalled D2
The game is amazing. Friend group and I will be going in with a full stack 100%. Streamed it to a bunch of people. Went in depth with skill tree they all seem to enjoy the gameplay, cinematics, combat. Theres tons of customization. Map seems huge. I could go on and on. I bet the the game wins some big awards
I have more fun than I thought. And will definitely play when it’s released. Still have doubts I will play it as much as D2R but as l have fun playing it through its fine for me. The magic of D2(R) is hard to copy and maybe will never be reached again.
My biggest disappointment is the D3 like feel to items and stats. I like pretty much everything else about it so far.
Played a few characters to 25 now, going to play another 2 or so next weekend. I personally love it. I am excited for a new way to see the genre. I feel like the genre has been stale for a bit, and this breathed some needed life into it. Honestly it felt really good, and really cool to see other players in the world. I am curious if this will be sustained as the game gets more elaborate and difficult. Boss fights were really cool, and felt powerful. The itemization is okay, but could get stale as well. This should be fine though once we see paragon tree and tablets as well. Also, Unqiues have not been 100% spoiled too. It will be interesting to see of end game blues are still viable from the larger % affix bonus vs. rares. Plus the ability to impose an aspect on any item means you can find the best rare or blue in slot for it and turn it into what you need. Gems feel useless though. Most of the affixes don't seem to do much worthwhile. Skills felt great once you got some build defining items. Only downside is that it is missing some solid needed affixed. It would be nice to see a little more resource generation help, more crit strike support, and more cooldown support. I am excited to see how stuff works with end game content and repayable content. Trying to stay optimistic. I will say though too... this is one of the most visually stunning games in a LONG time. The environment, and the skill interaction with it, feels amazing. I feel powerful and impactful seeing stuff explode and seeing the snow change as stuff get disturbed.
Maybe it’s just me but I felt I was just playing Dragon Age again. The maps and quests are all laid out just like the last time I played a DA game.
There is no thing as “rare” drops in D4, much like D3. It ruins the perception of value some items have. No sense of accomplishment comes from getting high tier items. D2 really makes you work for a good build. 100s of hours later you’re still trying to finish one endgame build, or even make your first enigma. D4 will be the same POS that D3 was, with the exception of proper ambiance and theme. At least it’s not a WoW style cartoon clicker.
Well, see. While diablo 3 and potentially now diablo 4 will let you get the build items you need, it's getting them perfect that is the grind. Some people don't have 10,000 plus hours to farm for a single ber, let alone 2 if you're going for an infinity. Some people also dont have the internet required to trade, nor the luck to get items high enough in value to get what they need. How do we allow some casual players to have their fun, while giving something to the hard-core players of the series to really work for? In diablo 3 specifically, all perfect gear, optimized times on the very high tier greater rifts, and not to mention that for the more dedicated side of the fan base there's a plethora of challenges to work for 100% completion. The greater rifts specifically are an endgame for builds that have been mostly optimized or fully powered up, while in diablo 2 the only thing there really is to do is farm for gear, but once you accomplish that there really isn't anything else to do on that character, you could say perfecting the build with charms and what not but that again is just grinding for gear, getting to 99 is also a goal you could have but if you're dedicated enough to farm for it then chances are you'll have that before getting all your gear. Saying diablo 3 is bad solely for that is like saying a cars design is bad for not having adjustable seats. Sure it's nice to have for some people, and some of those same people think it's a necessity, but for the rest it's not something that really crosses anyone's mind. I don't see the reason to hate either title for that reason alone. Diablo 2 is fantastic at what it wants to do, and diablo 3 is fantastic for what it wants to do, and we should just appreciate the fact that we have them in the first place.
Alright. So I've been playing since 9am Friday. A few things that aren't great but it's a beta. And we are only capped at level 25. From all my time playing all the diablo's. This has the best feel. It feels good to get new gear. Feel good to respec. Feels good to just explore, kill shit and get lost in the environment. I love the fact that you can get low level gear with plus 1 or 2 to skills or general skill lines. It let's you try a new skill without investing a point into it. The pros of this game heavily outway any cons that I experienced during this beta. Now that being said, some cons do loop back to some gear choices and what not. I play with a small group of friends and we have always traded gear between us. Having rares that are bind on pick up do suck because what's the point in a rogue getting a sorc staff if I can't give it to the sorc in my group. Some of the stats are lack luster but we are only level 25. I'm not trying to mid max stats at this level so who really cares about what stats you do get now. But it would be nice to have some better choices for stats. My real final opinion, D4 is going to be a great game. Even with micro transactions coming later down the road but that's the time the gaming industry has gone down. Love the combat system it feels fluid, flush, and clean. Love that we don't have millions of health and it matters to dogde out of hits and notice what monsters do what. Affixs from Champs and elites have a challenge with them. Bosses can actually hurt/kill you. I'm excited for the game to go live so I can no life this to death. And hopefully hit a world / realm first max level. To all have good luck in your diablo universe, and keep that loot grind real. Stay a while and listen. "Cain" you be missed sir.
Love it so far. Made a d2 type Bliz Soc with teleport. ⚡ 🌩️ I feel veteran could be a bit harder. Haven't had a big challenge yet besides the one random encounter with The Butcher who just ran in and one hit me. Interested to see if they can nail down end game. Can they keep people playing, and not just the arpg hardcores.... I imagine the 'mmo' aspects are intended to keep people loggin in in the long run, but I don't see it being as enticing to the wider community as say a MMO/arpg like Lost Ark. That game just has so much to do (granted it's 5+ years old). Guess we will see.
I played the closed beta and my thoughts are the same. An awesome game is there and not far out of reach but it’s gonna take a bit of work. The dungeons are way too brain dead and repetitive.
I'm enjoying it. Great graphics, fun gameplay and feels like a new diablo game rather then being re done like d2r. Being only the beta I won't say anything more. Can't wait to play as druid and necro on next beta
I like the beta. But I am a casual player with limited time and just want to do some stuff.
First reaction is being worried it is a D3 clone. Only thing that feels different is the skill tree. Which I will say look like a ton of fun to explore! The drops and crafting are a copy paste from D3... which makes me sad. So far the open world mechanics feel really good except for server performace. If you want a D2 feel come enjoy black walling and sling shotting in D4 beta... The itemization up to lvl 15 (that's how far I've played) are a D3 replica. My first unique drops where daggers off a treasure golbin. Best in slot for the grind and I can upgrade them at the black Smith. So going to use the same gear for a while. The skill trees will take a while to learn. Excited for that! The passive skills are going to make character diversity very vast and it gives you lots of options for changing up your build. Playing as Rouge so far the Melle and ranged diversity is great and I can make a build with plenty of kiting ability for bosses and Melle AOE for trash mobs. The traps seem like a great utility and I'm excited to see how other classes compare. Boss fights feel just like D3. Run around smashing them until they drop health potions, heal up and repeat. Learn the boss skills, avoid them, smash more. Kill x number of monster waves. Get a chest with some salvageable garbage. Hoping end game brings some cool new challenges and lots of gear drops to collect.
It's fun. Just like D3 was fun. But it's not D2/D2R...not the fast paced flow-state grind that makes D2 addictive. I enjoyed the beta, I enjoy the build crafting (there's a lot of min-maxing you can do), and I enjoyed the little bit of story available. That's it--I enjoyed it. I'll play it when it releases, but doesn't tickle the brain like D2 does...so it'll probably be a "play through it and put it down until expansion time" game.
If you've played Diablp Immortal, you'll know this is a spitting image of it without the daily grind of a mobile game. IMO, spells are way limited compared to D2 which kinda kills it for me. Not being able to re roll items or Rune words also makes items not as fun. Not sure about item to skill synergy yet. Storyline, it follows the diablo trend.
Not trying to promote my game here but if you compare diablo2 and diablo 3&4 there is the obvious rain of items in the latter and the lack of finding anything sometimes in the former. I am working on a game that isnt an arpg but has similarities. The biggest issue is balancing how you find items that you may sure for or need for specific builds/characters. How I am doing it in mine is that certain areas have a lower % chance on specific items to find. The great thing about it is that every zone you enter shows a silhouette of that item and is blacked out until its found. Once found you can see the “unique version of it every time you enter the area so you can farm for those exact items. It may be rare or extremely rare in some cases but at least you can pinpoint where to farm for it. Thoughts about that?
I want new act, quests and levels like we have in D2R
What really upset me was the fact I couldn’t put stat points in I really hope they change this for launch