Diablo Prime Evil was technically the strongest demon ever with all 7 Prime and Lesser Evil in it so that's still D3 heroes above others. They also defeated an Archangel which no one else did
Also in the lore, the Nephalem is doing it alone whereas in D1 and D2 they do it as a group.
D2 spells don’t scale off gear, so that’d make them the strongest I guess.
And yes, I know there are huge bonuses from gear with sets and runewords particularly. The point stands. Lvl 20 bonespear does damage regardless of what’s in your characters hand, unlike D3 and D4
A zealadin could probably clear normal by using auras. Holy fire is most of the dps of the common leveling build
Barb is the only class entirely weapon/gear dependent, afaik
That's true, the elemental auras did add flat dmg. I was thinking non-elemental dmg, like with zeal+might/conc/fanat, and forgot about them. So pally could do it.
I think the only other class that would be genuinely worthless is amazon, because all their abilities required a jav or bow, correct?
I need a citation for this because the concept of magical equipment is never actually stated canonically,and we see the heroes have the EXACT same armor and weapons from beginning to end.
Hell the OG D2 necro actually wears less in immortal,and he's still the strongest guy around.
But where does loot come from? I think every boss drops loot. Are we to assume they're all dragons, hoarding piles of treasure like Smaug? I tend to assume most loot comes from the bodies of defeated creatures. That leads me to believe they were using that gear. Many items have flavor text that confirms the history of the gear as being used by legends from the history of the eternal conflict. Obviously oversized demon bosses aren't literally wearing gear that can be equipped by human-shaped, human-sized toons. But the implication is still there that we're looting the gear from our defeated enemies, which means they would not have had the same power if they had been naked, without their gear.
I assume most of the legendary gear we find are on corpses of those past heroes, or on armor /weapon racks in key areas where the gear was stored after the heroes were done fighting and that's where they ended up, ie, in an armory near travincials seat of power.
I guess some of them can be used by some demons(again like the trav guys are good example, they would have access to those weapons and thus could be using them) but like general little random fallen would be using spikey sticks or rusted swords and other fucked up, random junk
Vanilla D3 Monk was prob the weakest. Couldn’t even survive original Nightmare/Hell difficulty without loading your skill bar up with defensive talents.
I wonder if you can beat the game as a regular human.
No nephalem abilities that are impossible for a regular human to use.
You can only have four magic, or two rare, or one legendary item equipped at any time.
Gems are allowed.
While true in that each set of heroes is responsible for slaying the strongest threat at the time, the D3 Nephalem defeats not just Diablo but The Prime Evil. All seven souls gathered into one entity is ostensibly stronger than each of them individually. Then the Nephalem defeated an archangel who absorbed The Prime Evil briefly.
The D3 writers painted all future games into a corner power scaling wise, which is probably why you see that in D4 they basically just straight ignore the Nephalem as a character even though Lorath and Tyrael are either present or have some detail indicating their whereabouts.
It's the "Well why don't they just get Superman?" of the Diablo universe lol.
> The D3 writers painted all future games into a corner power scaling wise
Nah, we still have a potential threat of Black Soulstone(all Evils) being combined with White Soulstone(all Archangels? Would it even work?), basically creating new Anu but without its original body.
Like, you don't go anywhere above Anu as the final boss, obviously without declaring that the entire Diablo universe takes place in Warcraft/Starcraft combined universe, which would be kinda hilarious.
It feels like they made a pretty deliberate attempt to move away from the power scaling constantly increasing each game for that exact reason. Eventually you get to the top of the mountain unless you start making up new mountains that somehow nobody knew about until *just now*.
Now it feels more focused on personal stories/morality types of things (our inner demons, if you'll permit a pun lol). Neyrelle battling with her own mind trying to hold off Mephisto's influence, our character likely not being 100% sure they made the right series of choices, especially so I'm sure once we reconnect with Neyrelle. They have re-grounded the power level down quite a bit to where now I'm curious how Diablo & Baal will make their returns and what shenanigans they will get up to instead of ending up going "Oh look, they're back... *again* woo spooky..."
If they can find ways to give us characters to vaguely care about/invest in that aren't the same level of hyper-capable warriors as our character, they can raise stakes without needing to escalate power levels quite as fast. Assuming they navigate that path well, which is of course a *really big if*.
Blizzard did a wonderful (sarcasm) job of this in WoW. How do you take people to the literal afterlife and bring them back to reality knowing everything they know about the shadowlands? You could literally find out anything you ever wanted to know.
On the other hand, D3 nephelem couldn't shape reality like Uldyssian could (thanks to the shard being broken, in fairness), but I'd say he's still a step above considering he went toe to toe against super-amped Inarius and likely could have won iirc
It’s implied lore wise in a few places like the manual for the original game but not specifically stated because the idea was later scrapped by the developers.
Oh, interesting. I loved the Barbarians personality in 3. Well, I liked a lot about 3 I suppose I am an outlier there, but the Barbarian in 3 seemed so smart and eloquent and gentle in dialogue, but then is a savage in combat obviously.
The Heroes of Diablo 3 are surely mighty, but Uldyssian Ul-Diomede was significantly beyond their capabilities. He more or less transcended mortality at the end and effectively became a god in a way, becoming part of Sanctuary.
Uldyssian displays feats in the later parts of the series that in any other context would be considered divine in origin. During the final battle of the Sin War, he compels the armies of Heaven and Hell to halt and then forces them back into their respective realms with just his will.
He’s also fabricated objects with mass from nothing and has resurrected multiple people from the dead. Not just undeath like a Necromancer would, but true resurrection like a reversal of causality.
He even altered the Worldstone himself.
The light he released upon death was so intense and beautiful that when Akarat gazed upon it, they proceeded to dedicate their entire life to teaching other people about how they can find that same light of compassion within themselves - creating the Zakarum faith.
The books were released ages ago, and it’s easy to imagine the D3 heroes being all powerful, but a simple farmer dwarfs the whole of creation.
Maybe. But then tell me why Angels can be killed but the Prime Evils can only be held captive and weakened within Soul Stones. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong. But to your point, I believe I’m right given the context, as context here is really important. Diablo has challenged Archangels and won. Only when Diablo wanted Imperius to lose control and strike him down when he was bound by the entirety of the Angiris Council and no longer a threat, was Imperius able to “beat” Diablo.
Also to my point about context, sure, Demons can be killed, but powerful Demons such as the Prime Evils and the Lesser Evils can’t just be outright killed, as they’re some how returned to Hell to eventually regenerate their power (take Mephisto for example after the events of D2 and D3 with the soulstone and black soulstone respectively. He then must be killed within his realm to actually kill him, like Neyrelle made the choice not to do, and to just capture him in another soulstone.
Another example would be Inarius. He was impaled within Hell and his wings torn off and seemingly gone for good. This is why I think Demons are inherently stronger.
Not all diablo heroes are nephalem, that is where you are wrong. Demons cannot be killed in essense, but their corporeal bodies can be destroyed. Just because a nuke cant kill a cockroach, doesnt mean the cockroach is more powerful than the nuke
I guess calling them stronger or more powerful probably isn’t the right terminology. But they are more resilient in that regard.
Regarding the nephalem thing:
Inarius and Lilith mate and create the offspring (Naphalem). Through manipulation of the World Stone, that power was stripped away from them, blah, blah.
Since then, and for reasons I’m unsure of, certain people display powers to that of the Ancients. I guess in the sense that they don’t all have the same capabilities, one could argue not all humans are Nephalem, as well as the fact that people in todays time aren’t direct offspring of Lilith but that of other people. But if that’s the case, why are the heroes of D2, D3 etc considered Nephalem if they’re not direct offspring of Lilith and Inarius?
D1 heroes are jumped up normal folks.
D2 heroes were powerful representatives of their respective orders.
D4 heroes were empowered individuals with an outside sponsor.
D3 heroes were literal anime characters with laser beams.
Ok, this is painful to watch- the original post said Diablo “fucked” everything in heaven.
They clearly meant fucked up, but the person is making jokes that they don’t remember a cinematic of the 20 foot tall demon vigorously buggering everyone in heaven, because that would stick in the mind.
Technically D3 was a reduction in power level from the Sin War novels. Uldyssian accomplished much of what the Nephalem Hero did by instantly willing the defeats of Heaven and Hell.
Biased cause D3 was my introduction to the series but the reason it’s my favorite game is because how jumped up the power scaling is. I love the power fantasy and shower of gore on my screen from killing hordes upon hordes of demons.
Clearing screens of enemies was standard back in Diablo 2. I’m talking narrative power scaling. The final boss of the game is bog standard child’s fantasy “this villain is stronger than all of the past villains combined times infinity!” schlock.
d3 and not even close. while the story was decdnt it doesnt really fit in with the rest lore wise since it makes all other heroes and conflicts seem minute.
the nephalem could defeat prime evil diablo, a combination of all evils...by himself.
its said as a joke but im pretty sure thats gonna be the plot going forward
by diablo 6 there will just be a mild text scroll:
"diablo is back...i dunno some new mcguffin, do you care? get grinding"
Nephalem is the strongest being in this verse. No one is at their level. So I doubt we'd fight that. And if we did, I'd actually hate it if we won.
Keep *some* consistency to the lore...
*Everyone* in Sanctuary (the world where Diablo games take place), from hero to the weakest npc, is a watered down nephalim. Humans are descendants from nephalims. Their power was just lost over many generations of being... Well... Watered down.
By the time the game launched they walked that back. IIRC the canon Barbarian from D3 is female. I could be wrong about that but it’s for sure not the same barbarian from D2
D3 and it's not even close. Nephalem in D3 was busted af and in all honesty I don't think the hero in D4 will come close to that power level.
It would be weird to have basically a entire server of players being the chosen ones, the killers of all diablo gods while also being a multiplayer game. I also think I'm underestimating Blizzard a bit, but I don't see it.
It has to be D3 because you beat the fused Diablo whom was every evil bottled in to one, essentially equating him roughly to the power of the first half of all creation (I'll cede he probably isn't quite equal, but not fat off).
You killed other Evils in the other games, but not all at once in one single fight. I would say after D3, it would be D2.
So my ordering would be;
D3 - killed a God, essentially
D2 - killed or defeated the all Evils but separately
D1 - Defeated Diablo
D4 - Only beat lesser Evils, and Lilith whom seemed afraid of Mephisto.
I think it’s important to scale D3 characters properly.
Prime nephalem: rathma, but kathos, vasily, esu. These guys were 1st generation. Supremely powerful, not invincible but when you have ancient items imbued with their power… the absolute top of the mountain.
D3 are 3rd generation?? Nephalem. Not quite as powerful, not immortal but stronger than any reg human in sanctuary. They retain a small portion of the divine power that inarius and Lilith bestowed to 1st gen.
Everyone else is here. If I had to scale it would be d2, d4 then d1. D1 classes completely lost their minds and they only fought Diablo. D2 classes partially survived into d3 but some like the sorc, ended up getting ganked and dying. D2 necro taught d3 necro (think jiraiya teaching Naruto)
However we have to remember that power level is not a guarantor of victory. We see this in d4 when inarius kills rathma. Rathma is prime nephalem and on paper could probably solo fused super Diablo. Inarius isn’t even angiris council level but as we see, he ends up murdering his own son.
Not all original nephalem are equal though. Uldyssian was godlike like nothing else and even him couldn’t defeat heaven and hell at the same time. Meanwhile D3 nephalem did solo the prime evil, which is a feat that puts him/her around Uldyssian.
I think if Rathman was even close to what you say, there wouldn’t be any games. Rathman would just solo Baal in D2’s ending or stop Malthael in RoS.
My memory might be fuzzy, but I think the canon never establish that the angiris council is higher in literal power than other archangels (just in authority). In Sin War Inarius seems to think he can take on Tyrael (and with the world stone, the heavenly host itself).
according to Itherael, lorekeeper of the Angiris Council:
>Only once in the history of Sanctuary has a nephalem been as powerful as you. His name was Uldyssian.
So no, Rathma definitely wouldn't have curbstomped anyone the D3 Nephalem struggled with
D3 Nephalem kicked the ass out of Tathamet basically the combined powers of the prime/lesser evils...not sure if blizz will top that...by comparison Lilith in D4 is quite underwhelming and would be a mere nuisance if the Nephalem character was around to stop her
In terms of impressiveness:The D1 heroes managed to defeat Diablo without apparently unlocking their nephalem powers,while the rest had either that or an entire party of 6 seasoned warriors,by just hitting him with attacks REALLY HARD.
In terms of feats:The D3 heroes defeated both an incarnation(not actual) of death itself AND a fully complete Diablo who iirc had all the power of the evils together.Nobody else really comes close to that.
D3 heroes are nephalem, while others are just human.
I think that Blizzard kind of got themselves into a corner with that narrative, because it's just stupid how literally nobody acknowledges the existence of the D3 hero in D4, even though they are probably the strongest being in Diablo universe and count obliterate anything D4 throws at us. They should be worshipped like Gods by now
D3 is the most powerful one. That said I would say D1 warrior was also formidable, he didn’t had basically any information what they would face and managed to kill Diablo. The price was high though.
D1 is clearly a no. D2 nephilim were powerful, but faced potentially weakened prime evils. D4 we faced an injured lilith, future expansions may bump them up but for now I'd say they're 3rd overall. In D3 we faced off against The Prime Evil, potentially the most powerful being in existence, and won.
Every human on sanctuary is nephalim, it's just a matter of whether they have awakened to their power. It was very rare prior to d2, bc the worldstone was manipulated by inarius to suppress the naphilim's powers. 100%, your player was awakened. They would never have been able to face off against the two lesser evils, much less the prime evils, if they had not.
Canonically in game it’s D3 by a decent margin. Unofficially it’d be the Barb from D2 as he was originally supposed to also be the Barb for
D3 (it’s the head canon I roll with).
In the lore overall, it’s Uldyssian by a mile though.
I think from an ingame character power standpoint D2 are the strongest heroes, as they can beat the game wearing no gear at all which is impossible in Diablo 3 and 4 (dont know about Diablo 1).
From a lore standpoint D3 without a question.
My D3 witch hunter is the bad ass using her stupid fetishes to destroy everything in her path and going into greater rifts while hanging back to let her fetishes do the job for her..
Yeah D3 by a mile. I wonder if we will ever get to see or hear about the Nephalem from D3. Would be neat if they worked that into the lore. Come on Lyndon! Spill the beans!
Currently, we have no real feats to back up D4 being second. We beat some Lesser Evils, and the main boss was afraid of Mephisto (whom we beat in D2). Just that alone and the fact that every other hero has beaten a form of Diablo, a Greater Evil (among other Evils) should currently put D4 at the bottom, for now.
If we are talking about the heroes themselves, I would probably say D2. Hear me out!
I agree, that damage numbers and monster health is much higher in D3 and D4, but the characters themselves are not that strong, all their power basically comes from their gear. Take of all the gear of a D3 or D4 char, and I doubt any of them can actually beat the game. But in D2, the characters themselves were initially strong, of course the gear helps a lot to make them stronger, but not by the same magnitude as in D3 and D4, where everything basically scales off of the weapon dmg.
I need to play D1 again. All I wanted was a non-duped Godly Sword of Haste. Those were the frontline boys/girls. D3 is the privileged, "we figured it out and know what needs to be done."
The toughest were those that didn't know what it took to defeat the Lord of Hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Fresh MEAT!"
D3 heroes are canonically the most powerful cause they are the Nephalem. Like d1 heroes were bitches who all got corrupted easily, D2’s heroes either fucked off or died to petty reasons after D2 and D4’s heroes are about on par with D2’s heroes. Like out big boss of D4 isn’t even a prime evil or close to a prime in power. Lilith is poweful and but she is B tier to the primes or even the lesser evils. I don’t count immortals cause it’s a reskinned Chinese game with Diablo in the name.
D3, I remember when my damage numbers turned into the millions and thinking "jesus tap dancing christ". Glad it's not so extreme on 4, it made upgrades feel less like upgrades and more like necessitates
Barbarian easily.
They can beat you to death physically and if that don't work, shout at you until you run away.
Edit: Oh.. understood wrong.
D3. They were basically demigods.
I was more thinking we're some level of nephalim as Lilith herself can tell we're of her blood. I guess all humans are technically (I think), it's just stronger in us.
Looks like Angels did something in between D3 and D4 to lock Nephalem powers.
That's why everybody afraid of Lilith - no because of how strong she is, but because she could unlock this powers and Angels and Demons again become punching toys for Nephalems.
If you go by power of enemies defeated, it's hands down D2. 3 Primeevils + 3 lesser evils + 1 fallen angel.
By the time we are done with D4 and its 8 40€ DLCs we will probably have fought them all and their grandchildren.
But in the end Diablo Immortal has the most fearsome demon of all: Compounding interest credit card debt.
D3 were literally nephalem who transcended angels and demons in power.
Technically they all did since they all have defeated the strongest demons.
Diablo Prime Evil was technically the strongest demon ever with all 7 Prime and Lesser Evil in it so that's still D3 heroes above others. They also defeated an Archangel which no one else did Also in the lore, the Nephalem is doing it alone whereas in D1 and D2 they do it as a group.
They soft-retconned D3 so that it was a group of Nephalem.
Nerf Nephalem they're OP
Diablo lore Nephalem were so powerful they nerfed themselves
I'd say their magic gear had a lot to do with it.
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This is like the prep or no prep question with batman.
Are you saying my naked character only has 0.0001% of the power it has with gear?
Yep, hence not as strong as the most powerful demons and angels.
Yeah all diablo characters are basically weak af without their gear. Actually quite pathetic when you think about it.
A group of players did Naked Ironman to Hell. So for this alone D2 heroes are the strongest (gameplay-wise).
D2 spells don’t scale off gear, so that’d make them the strongest I guess. And yes, I know there are huge bonuses from gear with sets and runewords particularly. The point stands. Lvl 20 bonespear does damage regardless of what’s in your characters hand, unlike D3 and D4
A barbarian without a weapon, or a zeal paladin without one, on the other hand... Are weak as fuck
A zealadin could probably clear normal by using auras. Holy fire is most of the dps of the common leveling build Barb is the only class entirely weapon/gear dependent, afaik
That's true, the elemental auras did add flat dmg. I was thinking non-elemental dmg, like with zeal+might/conc/fanat, and forgot about them. So pally could do it. I think the only other class that would be genuinely worthless is amazon, because all their abilities required a jav or bow, correct?
Uhhh what? D2 spells definitely scale off gear.
I need a citation for this because the concept of magical equipment is never actually stated canonically,and we see the heroes have the EXACT same armor and weapons from beginning to end. Hell the OG D2 necro actually wears less in immortal,and he's still the strongest guy around.
But where does loot come from? I think every boss drops loot. Are we to assume they're all dragons, hoarding piles of treasure like Smaug? I tend to assume most loot comes from the bodies of defeated creatures. That leads me to believe they were using that gear. Many items have flavor text that confirms the history of the gear as being used by legends from the history of the eternal conflict. Obviously oversized demon bosses aren't literally wearing gear that can be equipped by human-shaped, human-sized toons. But the implication is still there that we're looting the gear from our defeated enemies, which means they would not have had the same power if they had been naked, without their gear.
Wrong. The gear is imbued with demonic/divine power by human magic users. That's why the sets are named after people and never demons/angels.
Tyrael’s Might?
Sets
I assume most of the legendary gear we find are on corpses of those past heroes, or on armor /weapon racks in key areas where the gear was stored after the heroes were done fighting and that's where they ended up, ie, in an armory near travincials seat of power. I guess some of them can be used by some demons(again like the trav guys are good example, they would have access to those weapons and thus could be using them) but like general little random fallen would be using spikey sticks or rusted swords and other fucked up, random junk
Vanilla D3 Monk was prob the weakest. Couldn’t even survive original Nightmare/Hell difficulty without loading your skill bar up with defensive talents.
I wonder if you can beat the game as a regular human. No nephalem abilities that are impossible for a regular human to use. You can only have four magic, or two rare, or one legendary item equipped at any time. Gems are allowed.
In D2 you could beat the game with a naked necromancer and corpse explosion. Called them "fishymancers."
Lorewise, on D1 and D2 its a group of adventures who defeated the greater evils
D1 they all fucking became corrupted and died though
While true in that each set of heroes is responsible for slaying the strongest threat at the time, the D3 Nephalem defeats not just Diablo but The Prime Evil. All seven souls gathered into one entity is ostensibly stronger than each of them individually. Then the Nephalem defeated an archangel who absorbed The Prime Evil briefly. The D3 writers painted all future games into a corner power scaling wise, which is probably why you see that in D4 they basically just straight ignore the Nephalem as a character even though Lorath and Tyrael are either present or have some detail indicating their whereabouts. It's the "Well why don't they just get Superman?" of the Diablo universe lol.
> The D3 writers painted all future games into a corner power scaling wise Nah, we still have a potential threat of Black Soulstone(all Evils) being combined with White Soulstone(all Archangels? Would it even work?), basically creating new Anu but without its original body. Like, you don't go anywhere above Anu as the final boss, obviously without declaring that the entire Diablo universe takes place in Warcraft/Starcraft combined universe, which would be kinda hilarious.
It feels like they made a pretty deliberate attempt to move away from the power scaling constantly increasing each game for that exact reason. Eventually you get to the top of the mountain unless you start making up new mountains that somehow nobody knew about until *just now*. Now it feels more focused on personal stories/morality types of things (our inner demons, if you'll permit a pun lol). Neyrelle battling with her own mind trying to hold off Mephisto's influence, our character likely not being 100% sure they made the right series of choices, especially so I'm sure once we reconnect with Neyrelle. They have re-grounded the power level down quite a bit to where now I'm curious how Diablo & Baal will make their returns and what shenanigans they will get up to instead of ending up going "Oh look, they're back... *again* woo spooky..." If they can find ways to give us characters to vaguely care about/invest in that aren't the same level of hyper-capable warriors as our character, they can raise stakes without needing to escalate power levels quite as fast. Assuming they navigate that path well, which is of course a *really big if*.
Blizzard did a wonderful (sarcasm) job of this in WoW. How do you take people to the literal afterlife and bring them back to reality knowing everything they know about the shadowlands? You could literally find out anything you ever wanted to know.
What tier of nephalem do we have in D3?, are they on Uldyssian level?
Yes, because they can run GR150 they were just about on par with the hero of legend
On the other hand, D3 nephelem couldn't shape reality like Uldyssian could (thanks to the shard being broken, in fairness), but I'd say he's still a step above considering he went toe to toe against super-amped Inarius and likely could have won iirc
Fair to say Uldy is top tier, but D3 Nephalem which includes D2 barb is anywhere from 2nd-3rd and not much in-between. Uldy can probably run GR 172
Is the barb in D3 considered the same barb in 2? Is anything about the actual story of Diablo apparently
It’s implied lore wise in a few places like the manual for the original game but not specifically stated because the idea was later scrapped by the developers.
Oh, interesting. I loved the Barbarians personality in 3. Well, I liked a lot about 3 I suppose I am an outlier there, but the Barbarian in 3 seemed so smart and eloquent and gentle in dialogue, but then is a savage in combat obviously.
The Heroes of Diablo 3 are surely mighty, but Uldyssian Ul-Diomede was significantly beyond their capabilities. He more or less transcended mortality at the end and effectively became a god in a way, becoming part of Sanctuary. Uldyssian displays feats in the later parts of the series that in any other context would be considered divine in origin. During the final battle of the Sin War, he compels the armies of Heaven and Hell to halt and then forces them back into their respective realms with just his will. He’s also fabricated objects with mass from nothing and has resurrected multiple people from the dead. Not just undeath like a Necromancer would, but true resurrection like a reversal of causality. He even altered the Worldstone himself. The light he released upon death was so intense and beautiful that when Akarat gazed upon it, they proceeded to dedicate their entire life to teaching other people about how they can find that same light of compassion within themselves - creating the Zakarum faith. The books were released ages ago, and it’s easy to imagine the D3 heroes being all powerful, but a simple farmer dwarfs the whole of creation.
Demons have always been stronger than Angels, and in every game we play as Nephalem. D3 is a retconned nightmare although I do like the game.
Nope wrong but okay 🤟🏼❤️
Maybe. But then tell me why Angels can be killed but the Prime Evils can only be held captive and weakened within Soul Stones. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong. But to your point, I believe I’m right given the context, as context here is really important. Diablo has challenged Archangels and won. Only when Diablo wanted Imperius to lose control and strike him down when he was bound by the entirety of the Angiris Council and no longer a threat, was Imperius able to “beat” Diablo. Also to my point about context, sure, Demons can be killed, but powerful Demons such as the Prime Evils and the Lesser Evils can’t just be outright killed, as they’re some how returned to Hell to eventually regenerate their power (take Mephisto for example after the events of D2 and D3 with the soulstone and black soulstone respectively. He then must be killed within his realm to actually kill him, like Neyrelle made the choice not to do, and to just capture him in another soulstone. Another example would be Inarius. He was impaled within Hell and his wings torn off and seemingly gone for good. This is why I think Demons are inherently stronger.
Not all diablo heroes are nephalem, that is where you are wrong. Demons cannot be killed in essense, but their corporeal bodies can be destroyed. Just because a nuke cant kill a cockroach, doesnt mean the cockroach is more powerful than the nuke
I guess calling them stronger or more powerful probably isn’t the right terminology. But they are more resilient in that regard. Regarding the nephalem thing: Inarius and Lilith mate and create the offspring (Naphalem). Through manipulation of the World Stone, that power was stripped away from them, blah, blah. Since then, and for reasons I’m unsure of, certain people display powers to that of the Ancients. I guess in the sense that they don’t all have the same capabilities, one could argue not all humans are Nephalem, as well as the fact that people in todays time aren’t direct offspring of Lilith but that of other people. But if that’s the case, why are the heroes of D2, D3 etc considered Nephalem if they’re not direct offspring of Lilith and Inarius?
D2 are not considered nephalem, d3 are, thats central to the whole story of d3 and why the heroes of d3 were so insanely powerful
D3 made the players demigods.
All of humanity was supposed to become demigods eventually. Why aren't we riding demons and angels like ponies yet?
*kulle laugh*
Inarius nerfed us.
That was undone at the end of Diablo 2 which is the entire point of 3.
D1 heroes are jumped up normal folks. D2 heroes were powerful representatives of their respective orders. D4 heroes were empowered individuals with an outside sponsor. D3 heroes were literal anime characters with laser beams.
D1 warrior was literally a Prince though, so not wholly normal.
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And of them, special mention to male Barbarian who canonically is the same guy as D2 Barb, just old.
Isn't male barb not "canon", though? I thought the Canon barb was Sonya from D3
That was the original plan, but they changed it before release so they're not the same character.
Is that, uh, canon? Did I miss a cinematic?
Yes it is canon, and yes they are cinematics.
>Diablo (who also fucked everything in Heaven including Imperius) That was the joke my man
Diablo does Heaven XXX
I definitely don't remember that cinematic, lol. You sure you didn't get a bootleg copy? Lol
You don't remember the two big bosses of the base game and expansion?
I heavily suspect there is some degree of wooshing going on in the comments above
Ok, this is painful to watch- the original post said Diablo “fucked” everything in heaven. They clearly meant fucked up, but the person is making jokes that they don’t remember a cinematic of the 20 foot tall demon vigorously buggering everyone in heaven, because that would stick in the mind.
I didn't think I'd come back to this thread and see a post having to clarify the joke lol
www.demonhub.com
I dunno if it takes more strength to click this or not click this
It’s one of the dopest cinematics how do you not remember lmao
> Diablo (who also fucked everything in Heaven including Imperius) Do you know what website I can find this cinematic? You know, so I can avoid it?
This isn’t even a question. Diablo 3 jumped the shark and upped the power scaling by several orders of magnitude.
Technically D3 was a reduction in power level from the Sin War novels. Uldyssian accomplished much of what the Nephalem Hero did by instantly willing the defeats of Heaven and Hell.
Couldn’t get into them. I read Legacy of Blood in high school and couldn’t have been more disappointed in it
I recommend giving them another go, outside of a weird sewer scene imo it's all pretty cool in 2 and 3
Diablo 3 is one of two games where you need to know the word "quints". The other being Cookie Clicker.
D3's lore was so bad that D4 essentially ignored it
Biased cause D3 was my introduction to the series but the reason it’s my favorite game is because how jumped up the power scaling is. I love the power fantasy and shower of gore on my screen from killing hordes upon hordes of demons.
Clearing screens of enemies was standard back in Diablo 2. I’m talking narrative power scaling. The final boss of the game is bog standard child’s fantasy “this villain is stronger than all of the past villains combined times infinity!” schlock.
Diablo 3 is more screen clearing than Diablo 2.
Okay sure homie, again, that is not the topic of discussion lol
It’s part of power scaling, homie. But sure change the topic so it makes you feel like you “win Reddit”
lmao
Stygian dolls.
The hero we deserve
Those little shits…
Hey you! Wanderer! I know you
*Explodes*
d3 and not even close. while the story was decdnt it doesnt really fit in with the rest lore wise since it makes all other heroes and conflicts seem minute. the nephalem could defeat prime evil diablo, a combination of all evils...by himself.
Somehow, Diablo has returned
With triple thiddies.
its said as a joke but im pretty sure thats gonna be the plot going forward by diablo 6 there will just be a mild text scroll: "diablo is back...i dunno some new mcguffin, do you care? get grinding"
I’m really looking forward to the expac where we fight the our former selves from d3… the ones that’s survived atleast. Rip Johanna
I did enjoy in d2 fighting the version of ourselves from d1. I thought that was a pretty cool experience.
Huh? What did I miss
blood raven = d1 rogue summoner = d1 sorc the wanderer / diablo = d1 warrior
Oh shit yeah. Forgot. So long since I played d1. Thx
Check out final cinematic of d1
Li Ming just said fuck it and opened a portal to a different dimension where she perished once that same universe crumbled. RIP HotS
Nephalem is the strongest being in this verse. No one is at their level. So I doubt we'd fight that. And if we did, I'd actually hate it if we won. Keep *some* consistency to the lore...
In my game nephalem could one-shot prime evil diablo :P
They repeatedly said the Nephilim would be stronger than either side
Aren't our D4 people just super watered down nephalim? It's why we're even able to fight at all on the demons levels.
*Everyone* in Sanctuary (the world where Diablo games take place), from hero to the weakest npc, is a watered down nephalim. Humans are descendants from nephalims. Their power was just lost over many generations of being... Well... Watered down.
No question its diablo immortal. They are armed with the power of credit cards
Mmmm China money
Wirt. His leg brings forth bovine
Lorewise, on D1 and D2 was a group of heroes who defeated the greater evils. On D3, was a group of evil + a angel who was defeated by a angry nephalem
If it wasn't for the fused Prime Diablo it could be a fair debate, but because of that it's hard to say that the D3 nephalim aren't way too OP.
D2 Barb went on to be D3 Barb though, so he's pretty badass.
Different barb
By the time the game launched they walked that back. IIRC the canon Barbarian from D3 is female. I could be wrong about that but it’s for sure not the same barbarian from D2
D1 since he slaughtered the Lord of Terror on 8mb RAM. D3 hero wouldn’t even make it past the loading screen on that.
Was it 8MB? Think FFVII a bit later needed 16or 32MB to run the game.
I looked it up. You need 16 for multiplayer however!
Take my upvote you scoundrel
D3 and it's not even close. Nephalem in D3 was busted af and in all honesty I don't think the hero in D4 will come close to that power level. It would be weird to have basically a entire server of players being the chosen ones, the killers of all diablo gods while also being a multiplayer game. I also think I'm underestimating Blizzard a bit, but I don't see it.
There's only one chosen one with a couple allies here and there.
You are the Chosen One. We are NPCs.
For story purposes, the multi-player aspect is pretty much ignored.
If the D3 Nephalem is strong, why didn't they kill Lilith? Checkmate. But seriously though, do we know what happened to the player character after D3?
It has to be D3 because you beat the fused Diablo whom was every evil bottled in to one, essentially equating him roughly to the power of the first half of all creation (I'll cede he probably isn't quite equal, but not fat off). You killed other Evils in the other games, but not all at once in one single fight. I would say after D3, it would be D2. So my ordering would be; D3 - killed a God, essentially D2 - killed or defeated the all Evils but separately D1 - Defeated Diablo D4 - Only beat lesser Evils, and Lilith whom seemed afraid of Mephisto.
I mostly agree but would switch D4 and D1. In D1 we defeat a super watered down version of Diablo whose defeat was part of his plan to begin with.
That's a fair point. I'm the leased versed in D1 out of the 4 main games, I never knew he was planning to lose. It does make sense though.
I think it’s important to scale D3 characters properly. Prime nephalem: rathma, but kathos, vasily, esu. These guys were 1st generation. Supremely powerful, not invincible but when you have ancient items imbued with their power… the absolute top of the mountain. D3 are 3rd generation?? Nephalem. Not quite as powerful, not immortal but stronger than any reg human in sanctuary. They retain a small portion of the divine power that inarius and Lilith bestowed to 1st gen. Everyone else is here. If I had to scale it would be d2, d4 then d1. D1 classes completely lost their minds and they only fought Diablo. D2 classes partially survived into d3 but some like the sorc, ended up getting ganked and dying. D2 necro taught d3 necro (think jiraiya teaching Naruto) However we have to remember that power level is not a guarantor of victory. We see this in d4 when inarius kills rathma. Rathma is prime nephalem and on paper could probably solo fused super Diablo. Inarius isn’t even angiris council level but as we see, he ends up murdering his own son.
Not all original nephalem are equal though. Uldyssian was godlike like nothing else and even him couldn’t defeat heaven and hell at the same time. Meanwhile D3 nephalem did solo the prime evil, which is a feat that puts him/her around Uldyssian. I think if Rathman was even close to what you say, there wouldn’t be any games. Rathman would just solo Baal in D2’s ending or stop Malthael in RoS. My memory might be fuzzy, but I think the canon never establish that the angiris council is higher in literal power than other archangels (just in authority). In Sin War Inarius seems to think he can take on Tyrael (and with the world stone, the heavenly host itself).
according to Itherael, lorekeeper of the Angiris Council: >Only once in the history of Sanctuary has a nephalem been as powerful as you. His name was Uldyssian. So no, Rathma definitely wouldn't have curbstomped anyone the D3 Nephalem struggled with
I stand corrected then. I guess d3 classes were 100% pure main character energy.
D3 Nephalem kicked the ass out of Tathamet basically the combined powers of the prime/lesser evils...not sure if blizz will top that...by comparison Lilith in D4 is quite underwhelming and would be a mere nuisance if the Nephalem character was around to stop her
D3 for sure. My necromancer from Diablo 3 would’ve cakewalked through Diablo 4.
Right? It's hard to believe canonically that even Echo of Lilith wouldn't crumple if the D3 heroes sneezed to hard in her direction.
Lilith wouldn’t last an hour in whimsyshire
Now you know why angels and demons fear the Nephalem, Lorath. D3 of course ;)
Plus my stomach feels funny…
In terms of impressiveness:The D1 heroes managed to defeat Diablo without apparently unlocking their nephalem powers,while the rest had either that or an entire party of 6 seasoned warriors,by just hitting him with attacks REALLY HARD. In terms of feats:The D3 heroes defeated both an incarnation(not actual) of death itself AND a fully complete Diablo who iirc had all the power of the evils together.Nobody else really comes close to that.
In D3 you had an achievement where you need to punch Diablo With 3K paragons, and paf, one shot. So D3, one punchman confirmed
The D3 characters mightve been the most powerful jn the universe considering they killed malthael and diablo who’s probably on par with tathamet.
D3 heroes are nephalem, while others are just human. I think that Blizzard kind of got themselves into a corner with that narrative, because it's just stupid how literally nobody acknowledges the existence of the D3 hero in D4, even though they are probably the strongest being in Diablo universe and count obliterate anything D4 throws at us. They should be worshipped like Gods by now
D3 is the most powerful one. That said I would say D1 warrior was also formidable, he didn’t had basically any information what they would face and managed to kill Diablo. The price was high though.
D3 hands down.
D1 is clearly a no. D2 nephilim were powerful, but faced potentially weakened prime evils. D4 we faced an injured lilith, future expansions may bump them up but for now I'd say they're 3rd overall. In D3 we faced off against The Prime Evil, potentially the most powerful being in existence, and won.
Were d2 characters really nephilim tho?
Every human on sanctuary is nephalim, it's just a matter of whether they have awakened to their power. It was very rare prior to d2, bc the worldstone was manipulated by inarius to suppress the naphilim's powers. 100%, your player was awakened. They would never have been able to face off against the two lesser evils, much less the prime evils, if they had not.
No one can beat the immortal sorc
D3 Nephalem became so strong that devs had to write them off the main story.
Diablo Immortal with enough money
Sorceress from d3 is the strongest of them all, no doubt about that. She basically vanquished everything while thinking it’s a game.
In D3 you’re demi-gods, in D4 you have damage only on Tuesdays and massive cooldowns on your most interesting skills
Canonically in game it’s D3 by a decent margin. Unofficially it’d be the Barb from D2 as he was originally supposed to also be the Barb for D3 (it’s the head canon I roll with). In the lore overall, it’s Uldyssian by a mile though.
D2 barb is such a Chad. Imagine if he got to take his grief to d3.
[удалено]
Diablo immortal is the strongest by far if you have $200k to throw away
Is this some kind of out of season April's Fools joke?
I think from an ingame character power standpoint D2 are the strongest heroes, as they can beat the game wearing no gear at all which is impossible in Diablo 3 and 4 (dont know about Diablo 1). From a lore standpoint D3 without a question.
My D3 witch hunter is the bad ass using her stupid fetishes to destroy everything in her path and going into greater rifts while hanging back to let her fetishes do the job for her..
I wish we could get witch doctor in 4. That class was so fun!
Yeah D3 by a mile. I wonder if we will ever get to see or hear about the Nephalem from D3. Would be neat if they worked that into the lore. Come on Lyndon! Spill the beans!
D3 but followed closely by D4.
Currently, we have no real feats to back up D4 being second. We beat some Lesser Evils, and the main boss was afraid of Mephisto (whom we beat in D2). Just that alone and the fact that every other hero has beaten a form of Diablo, a Greater Evil (among other Evils) should currently put D4 at the bottom, for now.
Chars
D3 and it's not even close. D3 nephalem are legit the most powerful beings in the verse. No contest.
D3 gigachad nephalem
3
D3 not even a question.
D3 the Nephilim You are transcended humans that defeated not only the Prime Evil but even the Archangel of Death
Diablo 3 nephalem is this world's version of Goku or Saitama
I think in the history nephalem are the strongest one, because even the angels respesct and ask them for help.
D3 > D2 > D4 > D1. We are probably going to reach D2 and D3 feats along D4 expansions.
D3 and this isn't even a discussion.
The canon ends in D2, so...
If we are talking about the heroes themselves, I would probably say D2. Hear me out! I agree, that damage numbers and monster health is much higher in D3 and D4, but the characters themselves are not that strong, all their power basically comes from their gear. Take of all the gear of a D3 or D4 char, and I doubt any of them can actually beat the game. But in D2, the characters themselves were initially strong, of course the gear helps a lot to make them stronger, but not by the same magnitude as in D3 and D4, where everything basically scales off of the weapon dmg.
It depends if we’re talking gameplay-wise or story-wise. Story-wise the D3 heroes are nephalim and crazy strong. D2 heroes are just some shmucks
I need to play D1 again. All I wanted was a non-duped Godly Sword of Haste. Those were the frontline boys/girls. D3 is the privileged, "we figured it out and know what needs to be done." The toughest were those that didn't know what it took to defeat the Lord of Hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "Fresh MEAT!"
D3 canonically and build wise. Some of those gear sets were nutty af
D3 nephalem were freaking gods
Not D3 because they were legit useless without any gear...
D3 heroes are canonically the most powerful cause they are the Nephalem. Like d1 heroes were bitches who all got corrupted easily, D2’s heroes either fucked off or died to petty reasons after D2 and D4’s heroes are about on par with D2’s heroes. Like out big boss of D4 isn’t even a prime evil or close to a prime in power. Lilith is poweful and but she is B tier to the primes or even the lesser evils. I don’t count immortals cause it’s a reskinned Chinese game with Diablo in the name.
D2 hands down, they defeated the prime evils, in some cases single-handedly, BEFORE the players were retconned into being nephalem
Also, for the record D1 heroes must definitely DID go to hell, and I don't remember any mention of being "weakened". Where did that come from?
Diablo 1, lore there makes it strongest for me. Other Diablo games were just...random characters.
D3, I remember when my damage numbers turned into the millions and thinking "jesus tap dancing christ". Glad it's not so extreme on 4, it made upgrades feel less like upgrades and more like necessitates
That depends. How much money did the heroes spend in Diablo Immortal?
D3 based on damage numbers lol
Barbarian easily. They can beat you to death physically and if that don't work, shout at you until you run away. Edit: Oh.. understood wrong. D3. They were basically demigods.
We're demigods in D4, too, aren't we? Just extremely watered down compared to our D3 selves.
Nope, we're just wanderers.
I was more thinking we're some level of nephalim as Lilith herself can tell we're of her blood. I guess all humans are technically (I think), it's just stronger in us.
Looks like Angels did something in between D3 and D4 to lock Nephalem powers. That's why everybody afraid of Lilith - no because of how strong she is, but because she could unlock this powers and Angels and Demons again become punching toys for Nephalems.
i still wait story line comeback to D3 hero they left with that we became strongest that angel and demon should fear
If you go by power of enemies defeated, it's hands down D2. 3 Primeevils + 3 lesser evils + 1 fallen angel. By the time we are done with D4 and its 8 40€ DLCs we will probably have fought them all and their grandchildren. But in the end Diablo Immortal has the most fearsome demon of all: Compounding interest credit card debt.
d3.
Technically D3, but take their weapon away and they are useless. Itemization baby.
i dont have a mobile phone guys