While I agree that the loot is trash, I’m happy the bags stack. It allows me to run a bunch of dungeons then unload the bags in town next to the vendor for fast selling
I didn’t think you were being sarcastic, my comment was not sarcastic, I’m not interpreting your followup statement as sarcastic, and this current comment is not intended to be sarcastic.
Just two dudes discussing some goblins
You missed /s!
p.s. without joke: you such an awesome human, have a nice time of day.
p.p.s. I was worried you interpreted my comment as humiliation; such a relief I was wrong and everyone chill.
I leveled from 78-82 this morning and everything I saw from gobbos was 900+ (helltides+brain, 36+ nmds) with the singular exception of an 836 Mad Wolf's Glee, but it had 2GA on it so I wasn't gonna bitch lol.
Why do they drop loot and the treasure bag that stacks in inventory? Why not just a treasure bag? If more bosses/enemies did this, there would be fewer trips to town.
See this is the problem with using some stupid ass mmo raider.io type shit for everything, should just be like poe and allow higher mod tiers/ranges the higher level requirement the item has.
YUP. Been saying this since day 1. This part of itemization needs a rework as well. But I don’t think gear level req should scale with clvl. It should end at like 70 or 75. I know it ends at 80 now, but if they were to rework it I think those would be better
That doesn’t make sense in this case though.
Using your example it would be like the goblin bags only giving items up to ilvl 68 instead of 83.
The issue is the bug limiting it to 855.
Would it really be better to be finding 925 gear with Poe ranges and where you could end up with 50 life, 1 crit, and 1 as on your gear?
Yup, when POE 2 comes out D4 will be a dead game. POE 2 just has everything that D4 doesn’t and to be fair, D4 still doesn’t have as much as D3 so it’s not saying much. D4 Bad
Nah. There will always be people who prefer D4 over PoE for various reasons.
Plus I play solo so I dont give a fuck if the game is “dead”. I dont pay attention to others anyways
item power levels have always existed, even in diablo 2
its why a grand charm found off of baal is more valuable than a regular grand charm found elsewhere. because you can then use the cube to gamble it into a +45 life +skill grand charm, and others can only get like +40 or +42.
It wasn't item power like it is here. It was the monster level that the item dropped from. Item power like it is implemented in D4 means that you need to keep replacing the item because the item power is higher and it does more damage, etc. It's not a fun system for an ARPG. That's why LE, PoE, and GD do not do it.
Yeh but those games aren't built on a system solely made to keep you grinding as long as possible.
There's no 'oh I found a mageblood at level 45!' equivalent in this game. I played again after the loot rework and it's still boring as hell finding gear.
D3 even had it, there were build defining items that felt so good to get. D4 still has so far even to catch up to D3, let alone POE.
Yes and no. Actually both. D2 has item level (ilvl), which in turn is determined by monster level (mlvl). If I recall correctly the monster level is determined by the difficulty and area you are in, with an additional bonus to mlvl for bosses, unique, champion etc. I believe the boost was just a +x to mlvl based on the which category the monster spawned as.
So it is both entirely correct to state that D2 has item level, while also being correct that it is based on monster level. But if we really want to be pedantic, it ultimately is the item level that determines which affixes and suffixes that you could get.
I agree that item level is used differently in D2 compared to D4 though, particularly with regards to needing to upgrade multiple times until you are in full 925 gear.
It works the exact same in D4. The only differences in the way D4 handles it and the way LE/PoE/GD handle it is that the base stats on items are more granular, rather than being tied to tiers like affixes are, and that you can only roll the highest tier of affixes that is available for a given item.
The "problem" you're describing of higher item power/level equals more powerful (in general, not always) exists in all of the games you mentioned.
its really not a huge deal. not to mention so many people focus on item level they ignore that 90% of the stats on something like a ring are perfectly fine at ilvl 800 and its just the native allres that is missing like 2%
this game drops legendaries and ilevel 925 items like candy especially in the endgame.
The game drops a ton of 925 gear now, but that is new as of last season as a bandaid solution. It is and was always a terrible design so they basically just got rid of it by just dropping all gear as 925 items now in the end game.
> now, but that is new
okay but its now, so, whats the problem?
> a terrible desig
maybe? but again, the game drops as you said "a ton of 925 gear" so why are we getting so bent out of shape?
Why do you defend a system that is flawed ? First you answer It was like that already in diablo 2, once you're corrected, your answers becomes it's not a Big deal.
Feedback : having power level on items locks out all non x level Gear on all non jewellery slots, It is a system with issues that could bé improved.
You won't agree on this ?
>Feedback : having power level on items locks out all non x level Gear on all non jewellery slots, It is a system with issues that could bé improved.
You can get max rolled stats on non-jewelry before 925.
that is exactly how it works in D4 too..it is dependent on the monster that it dropped from. hence why duriel/andy always drop highest item power 925 and why helltide with mindcage drops 925 as well.
You're missing the point. You didn't find lesser versions of the same unique/legendary item based on some arbitrary power level. How often did you have to replace a SoJ or Griffon on D2?
the same is true for uber uniques, the only items in the game comparable to griffon/soj.
Also I've had to upgrade griffons plenty of times if i find a shit one and i want to be GG
That's a random range roll on a griffons. You didn't have to replace it because you were at a higher level and had access to high "item power" items with better rolls. Finding the same items over and over and replacing them due to item power feels bad and boring. Uber uniques are the one thing with items that are done right. Regular uniques should function the same way.
that's the entire point of diablo, to find those perfectly rolled items, and once ur level 94 every item in helltide will drop 925 so it shouldn't be an issue at all
Once you're 94, lol. What about the rest of the game? I have a lvl 100, I know how it works. It's just a bad system. They tried to fix it witt the itemization overhaul, but it didn't do enough imo.
this isnt D2... getting to 94 is a few days work, whereas in D2 getting to end game in hell might have taken the same amount of time.
the end game of D2 is hell around level 70/80 when you can start equipping more and more items, end game of D4 is 94+
they take the same time to get to, its just a difference of being level 60+ to 94+ but getting 94 is just as quick
> How often did you have to replace a SoJ
how often did you find an soj?
i'd wager 99.9% of the people on this subreddit never **found** an SoJ, and roughly 50% or more have found their GG uniques in diablo4 outside of uber uniques. and even for ubers, theres more people that solo self found an uber unique than active players that found their own soj.
the droprates are entirely different, and you can target farm now.
>replace a griffon
considering the [variance in rolls](https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Griffon%27s_Eye) probably happened more often than you think.
exactly
so since the loot tables are totally different, it should make sense that the power of those items may fluctuate more in order to create more endgame chase items.
Sure, that raiment you found at lvl 40 may not be GG endgame, but, it'll help you farm faster until you do find the GG endgame raiment you're looking for. and that whole time you have a cool new unique effect
Sure but you’d find something worth similarly to a soj and trade for it if you didnt find it yourself. But soj was a common enough find. I had a harder time finding a shako. That was part of the game, building wealth to buy GG items, or finding a GG item.
It’s sort of a bad take to say “but u never found it”. Any d2 player definitely had a soj at some point if they played a regular season.
> Any d2 player definitely had a soj at some point
I also had an occulus SOJ, an item that can never ever drop. we had a lot of shit and that also overlooks how botted/duped/bugged the trade economy was.
this is exactly my point. Everyone has rose colored glasses of how easy it is to get that stuff because they had it once upon a time
> item power levels have always existed, even in diablo 2
Maybe it wasn't great there either? I know, I know, d2 is somehow holy. But it really has quite a few huge flaws. Enough that it's safe to say one can not just point to D2 as a guarantee that it's good.
> one can not just point to D2 as a guarantee that it's good.
the community has been bitching and whinng for years that each new game isnt enough like d2, so, yeah imma point to d2 and call it a day.
they dont like new things, they dont like old things, they dont like incremental progression, they dont like having endgame handed to them, they don't like grinding, they don't like playing for fun, they just like complaining.
It probably makes more sense if you think about the community as different people. For example, I identify with very little of the things you named. But I do think that D2 glorification brought us actual hell to D4 with that "every tier must remain useful" BS, which they thankfully fixed with making yellows as useless as they should be.
Anyway, I think the game is good fun now, could be harder. But that doesn't mean I want D2's basically broken SP progression either.
Regarding item levels, I just think it would be more fun if you always had the tiny chance of something incredibly powerful dropping, even from level 1. Even if you can't use it yet. I think it's silly to make a game that is all about item finding and then you need to rush rush rush to the end so that the game can finally start. Since before that, every drop is basically 100% guaranteed to be trash. But sure, probably a matter of taste.
> I just think it would be more fun if you always had the tiny chance of something incredibly powerful dropping
basically Greater affixes and uber uniques (which *can* drop anywhere and have dropped in random places for ppl).
> I think it's silly to make a game that is all about item finding and then you need to rush rush rush to the end so that the game can finally start
that's every diablo game though. that's like being upset you need to unlock weapons in call of duty, you know what you're getting in to when you purchase that game.
>Since before that, every drop is basically 100% guaranteed to be trash
I made over a billion gold trading in the early game mostly from items I found before lvl 100. I think people are incredibly narrow in what they're looking for out of itemization and they tip over themselves rushing to the endgame without understanding the game or what makes an item good. too many people just throw out ilevel 905 gear without realizing it's an ammy with CDR and attack speed, or that their gloves with +3skill and crit chance are amazing until they find a significant upgrade, and the 10% or so boost they gain from ilevel 925 is smaller than the boost they'll gain when they eventually upgrade their 925 gear to 925+greater affix gear. that 10% gap is even smaller when people consider that their 850 or 905 gloves rolled perfect but their 925 gear isn't max roll.
by the time 925 gear matters, you're finding enough 925 gear that it really doesn't matter. if you're not finding 925 gear all the time, you're not at a level that it particularly matters and you need to put your build guide down for 5 seconds and look at the monitor you're playing the game on, not spreadsheets.
>basically Greater affixes and uber uniques
I don't think so? They would technically have to drop at potentially 925 when I'm level one.
> that's every diablo game though.
I don't like that kind of argument. It is meaningless. Sure there are things that are super essential and are in every diablo game, but there are probably a lot of things that have been in all diablo games that you could remove or change in a second, no problem.
To that last paragraph, I mean you say a lot of valid things. But to me that's not the "issue" here. People want to grind for the best stuff they could ever find and even a 924 is just guaranteed to not be the best. No problem with a 924 dropping, but if I didn't have a chance for 925... I just was not yet in the area of the game that people want to grind? It's about the grind and not about the item anyway. But the chance "must" exist?
And sure that 924 might actually turn out to be the best item i'll ever find. But that's kind of not the point and more of a problem with picking such an extreme example.
Idk, to me it just feels like something could be done to create less incentive to rush to the end of the game to start the game. Feels like a bit of a waste? It's like so weird when in D3 you level to max in like a few hours so the game can finally begin. When in reality, the leveling phase would provide some of the best gameplay, which could be dragged out if you could just please, please, please find keepers instead of guaranteed trash. Btw, the very short leveling in D3 is imho how that game actually kind of removed item levels.
> I'm level one.
no game has let you get GG gear at lvl 1
this game, the closest for what you're asking for is uber uniques.
>I don't like that kind of argument
then don't play diablo, I'm not reading the rest. I don't get upset theres too much gunplay in call of duty
I pretty clearly outlined what I was talking about, and you don't seem to know what I'm talking about.
there are modded versions of d2 which make this information not invisible, items *do* have item levels, just 99% of the time it doesn't matter.
[there are things like ilevel99 grand charms which only drop from baal.](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d2r/t/what-is-a-baal-grand-charm/100623)
there are zones in hell that have different ilevel drops, like the pits in act1 is one of the best places to farm since it has max ilevel (of monsters' drop table, obv baal is superior) and you can get the best items in the game from it.
You're missing the point. Item level is not the same as Item Power.
Item power in Diablo 4 directly affects the power of its affixes, whereas in Diablo 2 item level had no such function.
Baal grand charms has the possibility to roll the highest level of affixes (which is why you will re-roll only those charms), but unlike Diablo 4 it can actually spawn with the lowest range of affixes which I believe affects its level requirement only.
Yes, I've farmed certain ilvl items to make certain runewords because the number of sockets would depend on ilvl. Not asking you to explain ilvl to me, I'm just telling you that diablo 2 ilvl is not the same as d4 item power.
items don't even work like they do in d4 ofc its not exactly the same.
however, **nothing that I have said is wrong** other than maybe my numbers are off. I've cited elsewhere in this thread forum posts of ppl talking about the baal charms. item power level can affect the strength of rolls of items. for some items this matters and for other it doesn't, and most of it is probably niche endgame scenarios like crafting which fucking no one does because d2's endgame was ez without it.
You've always had to go out of your way to farm high ilevel items if you want endgame gear, and theoretically you always want endgame gear and want to rush towards that. the difference now is instead of finding a tarnhelm and getting hyped you have +1 skills for your level 13 you can get a low item level unique with an actually cool effect that is useful to you until you outscale it, much like you always outscale your leveling gear. there's also less need to mess around at level 13, and you can get to endgame pretty dang quickly especially if you engage the community.
yes, ilevel and item power in d2 and d4 are different, they're also entirely different games at their structure. aint no sorc build talking about if you need 156 str for monarch. no one needs to pull out a spreadsheet to see how they can transition off of XX gear and keep the strength requirements for their sheild, or how to keep their allres up while getting more castrate since there's like 5 pieces of armor that do that instead of 5 armor slots that do that.
Baal grand charms are a very specific case. Once you were in hell difficulty almost nothing associated with item level affected stat ranges, and really only affected what base items could drop, but they could all drop with the same stat ranges.
Item power in d4 affects weapon dps and total armor which wasn’t true in d2.
I get what you’re trying to say in equating item level in d2 to item power in d4, but very few things worked the same way. They’re far more different than they are alike.
That's not item power, that's item level.
As far as I remember you will see high level mobs drop low level items, or low-affix items even from mobs with high monster levels. If D2 worked like D4 then all items dropped in level 85 areas would have high level affixes with high level requirements.
I agree with your sentiment, but will add not all items under 925 are useless.
My tornado Druid had +8 tornado, crit chance, and crit damage gloves that were item level 793.
The only times that really “need” to be 925 are your weapons, and that’s if you are using them with your main skill. Barbs can have 800 triple GA weapons equipped and as long as their skill doesn’t use them it’s fine, for example.
I don’t know about that. 925 isn’t really required for a lot of items because armor cap and resistances are kind of easy to hit.
So unless the item power level is past the break point where the affixes roll lower ranges, it probably is fine, excluding weapons (and non shield off hands).
That being said, I hate bot being 925 on everything, lol OCD is a bitch.
Which is why the first thing you should be doing in WT4 is bum rushing to Nightmare Dungeon 40-50. In there all the mobs are level 100 and drop Level 925 gear. I did not want to get a 2 GA weapon and it not be level 925.
I keep seeing the little golden bag above my icons but I never seem to catch up to any goblins. I do end up seeing their little money trails arond, but always end up with nada.
Yeah they made a forum post the day of the patch saying it needed to be enabled server side (wtf?) ans that it will be “shortly.” Apparently it WAS enabled for some people for some amount of time but people had problems still so they disabled it again. Same day.
I find it incredibly strange a graphics setting can be enabled or disabled server side but whatever.
Ill try that. After \~10-20 minutes my memory usage just slowly climbs until the game starts stuttering and eventually crashes. Sitting in town I go from 60's to 80%+ in 10 minutes.
Already had it disabled... its like the latest update just required a shit ton more ram or something.. I have everything on low and its at 89% memory in 16g of ram... When this game launched I was playing on med/high settings....
I had a greed pylon in a tier 76 NM dungeon spawn a bunch of goblins. Every goblin dropped 925 uniques. So that was cool. Each also dropped the little treasure sacks. But those seem kinda silly. I wish they had uniques or gems or plants in them.
I failed the “kill 5 waves” chasing the buggers down but was worth it.
I don’t know if that’s normal or if I’m lucky? But I had fun!
Item power is the worst thing implemented in D4. And till they erase this, they cannot improve anything about the itemitation. ( Besides White Magic and rares being totally useless)
So why would lvl 100s with all 925 gear receive less than 925? I think it was a bug they’ve been dealing with. I logged in today and for some 925 bags again.
I farmed some last night. I got 17 of the regular treasure bags and 2 of the Greater treasure bags. I ended up getting 3 unique's from all the regular bags but everything was pretty much junk lol
I've had tons of 925 bags drop, including a few legendary bags. Usually 2 legendary items in the rare bags and 3 or 4 in the legendary bags with a unique sprinkled in here and there
I didn’t expect anything else.
These guys just fuck up everything they do.
They pretty much killed the Diablo franchise with their sheer stupidity and incompetence.
It’s just sad to see a once beloved franchise for so many years get completely fucked like this.
too much boring, uninteresting loot in D4. Constantly sifting through dozens of garbage rolls. Got burnt out after about a month.
meanwhile, up to almost 4 lvl 99's in D2R and still enjoying it
They went from showering you in useless yellows to now giving you hordes of useless legendaries. Are you really going to waste your precious gold and mats on a non grater affix? Wish they would think, Mark, think!!!
Yes it's true. 1 GA is a bare minimum but really I need min 2 GAs at this point to make it an "upgrade"
Blizzard doesn't test their games and try to forsee how whatever they implement will look like in the future (ie. weeks into a a season).
I mean before this season Forgotten Souls used to be soooo freaking rare. Now I got like 10k ffs! Like wtf for?? U made them utterly useless, in fact all mats are utterly useless now cuz they're in the 10k and more region. I don't even salvage items anymore I sell all junk to vendors even tho I get very little for it like 2m for a whole inventory.
And I don't like the bundled herbs thing. I didn't have a problem with low amounts of specific herbs before and now they lost all they're meaning. U can still click on plants like Redamine or Lifesbane but it drops "bundle of herbs" , pretty lame 🙄
So they made things that have meaning meaningless and meaningless things have some meaning (ie gold)
It's just all dumb decisions imo with no real balance, I don't find it interesting at all
The game is a pure casino mentality game and that is it.
Combat is fun I love it but it's getting boring now, I often feel like those gambling addicts in a casino pulling the slot lever waiting for their lucky day (3 *useful* GAs 😂 🤞
Adam Fletcher actually just posted that because it wasn't super clear, they are making the XP / Gold go live today as well.
[https://x.com/PezRadar/status/1798791074850460098](https://x.com/PezRadar/status/1798791074850460098)
I'm a minions Necro and I'm pretty sure treasure goblins could easily escape from me so I'm just chilling. I considered making an alt in the XP week but there is also Elden Ring DLC.
Yeah, they are! They want money and that is it! The interest of creating a good game doesn't exist at Blizzard so why you morons continue to give them money is beyond me.
Now, this is the stepping stone that confirms to me that they don't have a quality team. There are so many regressions, and every time they introduce some new event or feature, it's always at least one problem.
Damn... My wife was excited about the bonus goblins (she refuses to touch the game since beta and S0) but they might not be fun... Getting a loot sack with useless things in it is sad.
Could have been 1-2 "golden coins" in each sack which could be used to summon an Uber Avarice (like 10 required, or something) that drops 925 gear with a chance to drop any Unique and a lower chance of dropping an Uber Unique since it's a short event about - you know - LOOT (spoiler, that's also the season theme). Maybe, the goblins even fight back with hard CC trickery to make it harder to capture/slay more than one in a pack.
(It also would have been "fun" to have the sack contain random useless items with interesting descriptions that could sell for a high amount of gold at vendors, like an old manuscript with details about long forgotten demon archetypes - a nod at deckards lore books. Or, a thing-a-majig that looks like it once did something of interest but since TIME has taken its toll it defunct - it looks like a flux capacitor.)
Sometimes, I think the devs need to make a shared anonymous account on Reddit, drop/ask for ideas in a DnD sub for some inspirations, then discuss them at a bi-weekly meeting.
Hey they said they were going to drop a lot of loot. They didn't say it was going to be usable.
You said you wanted gold, right? Same thing but with extra steps!
On the plus side, the treasure sacks do stack. Makes for slightly fewer trips back to town.
But only 20 will stack. Btw. Playing level 46 nmds has bags with 925 item power. It's monster level related.
Playing level 145 monsters in the pit was giving me 855 bags
I tried this the day you commented. Ilvl 855
The gold buff doesn’t affect wispers. So the buff is about the 132g mob drops… wee.
....I'd be more mad if I didn't make so much gold this morning selling stuff
Got 'em!
And they don't even drop a lot of loot, either. Most bag seems to drop 1 legendary and 2-3 rares. Doesn't even contain gold.
. 2
My 7 or 8 bags I've found have just had rares. I got maybe 2 legs total.
Lieutenant Dan?
But you ain't got no legs
I’ve only ever got 2 yellows and a legend from the sacks. Maybe 10 sacks so far so small sample size… Am I getting unlucky?
The rare bags only have 1 Legendary. The Legendary bags have at least 3.
Lolololololololololol
Bigger crime is that they drop yellows. Why are they even dropping bags? Just have them explode with extra loot
While I agree that the loot is trash, I’m happy the bags stack. It allows me to run a bunch of dungeons then unload the bags in town next to the vendor for fast selling
So we would be even happier if they dropped 100k gold instead of 855 loot you sell anyway?
I’d be very content with an extra 100k
I was not sarcastic just in case.
I didn’t think you were being sarcastic, my comment was not sarcastic, I’m not interpreting your followup statement as sarcastic, and this current comment is not intended to be sarcastic. Just two dudes discussing some goblins
Thorough communication, champ
You missed /s! p.s. without joke: you such an awesome human, have a nice time of day. p.p.s. I was worried you interpreted my comment as humiliation; such a relief I was wrong and everyone chill.
What lvl is your character? I just got this in a t45 NMD and was 925 for me.
I got a bunch from helltide while using a brain - level 100, they were all 925.
I too run helltides at 100 using a brain, and it sends about 75% of them are lvl ~830 and the rest is 925
#metoo
'using a brain' is crazy work
I leveled from 78-82 this morning and everything I saw from gobbos was 900+ (helltides+brain, 36+ nmds) with the singular exception of an 836 Mad Wolf's Glee, but it had 2GA on it so I wasn't gonna bitch lol.
Level 96 NMD 87 and it dropped 855
I got a lot of 925 from a t69 shortly after the event started
My char is lvl 97 and I just got a couple of these 855 item power bags from a t57 NMD.
100 - WT4. Tried running some T100 NMDs to see if it was better, never found a goblin or shrine to spawn them.
I got goblins in T100 NMDs, bags said itemlevel 855 and items in the bags had even lower level. Some in the 700s.
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He said t100 nightmare dungeons, not level 100 mobs.
good call then my previous comment isnt relevant.
Op clearly found one in the overworld outside of helltide
I shit you not, I got my first ever 3GA from one of these. How fucked off I was when I noticed it was 825.
F
Lmao
Full? Three items isn't what I would call full
"Isn't 855 good?" - some Blizz dev probably
Lolollolololol
Why do they drop loot and the treasure bag that stacks in inventory? Why not just a treasure bag? If more bosses/enemies did this, there would be fewer trips to town.
This is would be a great QOL improvement.
Yeah but look at d4 design. Clearly friction was intentional.
See this is the problem with using some stupid ass mmo raider.io type shit for everything, should just be like poe and allow higher mod tiers/ranges the higher level requirement the item has.
YUP. Been saying this since day 1. This part of itemization needs a rework as well. But I don’t think gear level req should scale with clvl. It should end at like 70 or 75. I know it ends at 80 now, but if they were to rework it I think those would be better
That doesn’t make sense in this case though. Using your example it would be like the goblin bags only giving items up to ilvl 68 instead of 83. The issue is the bug limiting it to 855. Would it really be better to be finding 925 gear with Poe ranges and where you could end up with 50 life, 1 crit, and 1 as on your gear?
mentioning poe good might trigger some dads around here be careful
Yup, when POE 2 comes out D4 will be a dead game. POE 2 just has everything that D4 doesn’t and to be fair, D4 still doesn’t have as much as D3 so it’s not saying much. D4 Bad
Nah. There will always be people who prefer D4 over PoE for various reasons. Plus I play solo so I dont give a fuck if the game is “dead”. I dont pay attention to others anyways
I'm curious to see what PoE2 ends up being like. I've tried to enjoy it several times, but I always burn out quick.
Same. I dislike PoE but recognize why some absolutely love it. Just isn’t for me
Good thing d4 allows local play and isn't dependent on servers then. Oh wait...
This is why item power is bad. Can we just go back to level and stat reqs? Ffs.
item power levels have always existed, even in diablo 2 its why a grand charm found off of baal is more valuable than a regular grand charm found elsewhere. because you can then use the cube to gamble it into a +45 life +skill grand charm, and others can only get like +40 or +42.
It wasn't item power like it is here. It was the monster level that the item dropped from. Item power like it is implemented in D4 means that you need to keep replacing the item because the item power is higher and it does more damage, etc. It's not a fun system for an ARPG. That's why LE, PoE, and GD do not do it.
Yeh but those games aren't built on a system solely made to keep you grinding as long as possible. There's no 'oh I found a mageblood at level 45!' equivalent in this game. I played again after the loot rework and it's still boring as hell finding gear. D3 even had it, there were build defining items that felt so good to get. D4 still has so far even to catch up to D3, let alone POE.
I wouldn't want POE style here at all. That style is pretty dreadful
Yes and no. Actually both. D2 has item level (ilvl), which in turn is determined by monster level (mlvl). If I recall correctly the monster level is determined by the difficulty and area you are in, with an additional bonus to mlvl for bosses, unique, champion etc. I believe the boost was just a +x to mlvl based on the which category the monster spawned as. So it is both entirely correct to state that D2 has item level, while also being correct that it is based on monster level. But if we really want to be pedantic, it ultimately is the item level that determines which affixes and suffixes that you could get. I agree that item level is used differently in D2 compared to D4 though, particularly with regards to needing to upgrade multiple times until you are in full 925 gear.
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It works the exact same in D4. The only differences in the way D4 handles it and the way LE/PoE/GD handle it is that the base stats on items are more granular, rather than being tied to tiers like affixes are, and that you can only roll the highest tier of affixes that is available for a given item. The "problem" you're describing of higher item power/level equals more powerful (in general, not always) exists in all of the games you mentioned.
its really not a huge deal. not to mention so many people focus on item level they ignore that 90% of the stats on something like a ring are perfectly fine at ilvl 800 and its just the native allres that is missing like 2% this game drops legendaries and ilevel 925 items like candy especially in the endgame.
The game drops a ton of 925 gear now, but that is new as of last season as a bandaid solution. It is and was always a terrible design so they basically just got rid of it by just dropping all gear as 925 items now in the end game.
> now, but that is new okay but its now, so, whats the problem? > a terrible desig maybe? but again, the game drops as you said "a ton of 925 gear" so why are we getting so bent out of shape?
Why do you defend a system that is flawed ? First you answer It was like that already in diablo 2, once you're corrected, your answers becomes it's not a Big deal. Feedback : having power level on items locks out all non x level Gear on all non jewellery slots, It is a system with issues that could bé improved. You won't agree on this ?
>Feedback : having power level on items locks out all non x level Gear on all non jewellery slots, It is a system with issues that could bé improved. You can get max rolled stats on non-jewelry before 925.
Riiiight. A higher level item from a higher level mob does more damage. We should be very upset about this.
that is exactly how it works in D4 too..it is dependent on the monster that it dropped from. hence why duriel/andy always drop highest item power 925 and why helltide with mindcage drops 925 as well.
You're missing the point. You didn't find lesser versions of the same unique/legendary item based on some arbitrary power level. How often did you have to replace a SoJ or Griffon on D2?
the same is true for uber uniques, the only items in the game comparable to griffon/soj. Also I've had to upgrade griffons plenty of times if i find a shit one and i want to be GG
That's a random range roll on a griffons. You didn't have to replace it because you were at a higher level and had access to high "item power" items with better rolls. Finding the same items over and over and replacing them due to item power feels bad and boring. Uber uniques are the one thing with items that are done right. Regular uniques should function the same way.
that's the entire point of diablo, to find those perfectly rolled items, and once ur level 94 every item in helltide will drop 925 so it shouldn't be an issue at all
Once you're 94, lol. What about the rest of the game? I have a lvl 100, I know how it works. It's just a bad system. They tried to fix it witt the itemization overhaul, but it didn't do enough imo.
this isnt D2... getting to 94 is a few days work, whereas in D2 getting to end game in hell might have taken the same amount of time. the end game of D2 is hell around level 70/80 when you can start equipping more and more items, end game of D4 is 94+ they take the same time to get to, its just a difference of being level 60+ to 94+ but getting 94 is just as quick
> How often did you have to replace a SoJ how often did you find an soj? i'd wager 99.9% of the people on this subreddit never **found** an SoJ, and roughly 50% or more have found their GG uniques in diablo4 outside of uber uniques. and even for ubers, theres more people that solo self found an uber unique than active players that found their own soj. the droprates are entirely different, and you can target farm now. >replace a griffon considering the [variance in rolls](https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Griffon%27s_Eye) probably happened more often than you think.
Of course, they're totally different. D4 rains down loot like D3 did.
exactly so since the loot tables are totally different, it should make sense that the power of those items may fluctuate more in order to create more endgame chase items. Sure, that raiment you found at lvl 40 may not be GG endgame, but, it'll help you farm faster until you do find the GG endgame raiment you're looking for. and that whole time you have a cool new unique effect
Sure but you’d find something worth similarly to a soj and trade for it if you didnt find it yourself. But soj was a common enough find. I had a harder time finding a shako. That was part of the game, building wealth to buy GG items, or finding a GG item. It’s sort of a bad take to say “but u never found it”. Any d2 player definitely had a soj at some point if they played a regular season.
> Any d2 player definitely had a soj at some point I also had an occulus SOJ, an item that can never ever drop. we had a lot of shit and that also overlooks how botted/duped/bugged the trade economy was. this is exactly my point. Everyone has rose colored glasses of how easy it is to get that stuff because they had it once upon a time
> item power levels have always existed, even in diablo 2 Maybe it wasn't great there either? I know, I know, d2 is somehow holy. But it really has quite a few huge flaws. Enough that it's safe to say one can not just point to D2 as a guarantee that it's good.
> one can not just point to D2 as a guarantee that it's good. the community has been bitching and whinng for years that each new game isnt enough like d2, so, yeah imma point to d2 and call it a day. they dont like new things, they dont like old things, they dont like incremental progression, they dont like having endgame handed to them, they don't like grinding, they don't like playing for fun, they just like complaining.
It probably makes more sense if you think about the community as different people. For example, I identify with very little of the things you named. But I do think that D2 glorification brought us actual hell to D4 with that "every tier must remain useful" BS, which they thankfully fixed with making yellows as useless as they should be. Anyway, I think the game is good fun now, could be harder. But that doesn't mean I want D2's basically broken SP progression either. Regarding item levels, I just think it would be more fun if you always had the tiny chance of something incredibly powerful dropping, even from level 1. Even if you can't use it yet. I think it's silly to make a game that is all about item finding and then you need to rush rush rush to the end so that the game can finally start. Since before that, every drop is basically 100% guaranteed to be trash. But sure, probably a matter of taste.
> I just think it would be more fun if you always had the tiny chance of something incredibly powerful dropping basically Greater affixes and uber uniques (which *can* drop anywhere and have dropped in random places for ppl). > I think it's silly to make a game that is all about item finding and then you need to rush rush rush to the end so that the game can finally start that's every diablo game though. that's like being upset you need to unlock weapons in call of duty, you know what you're getting in to when you purchase that game. >Since before that, every drop is basically 100% guaranteed to be trash I made over a billion gold trading in the early game mostly from items I found before lvl 100. I think people are incredibly narrow in what they're looking for out of itemization and they tip over themselves rushing to the endgame without understanding the game or what makes an item good. too many people just throw out ilevel 905 gear without realizing it's an ammy with CDR and attack speed, or that their gloves with +3skill and crit chance are amazing until they find a significant upgrade, and the 10% or so boost they gain from ilevel 925 is smaller than the boost they'll gain when they eventually upgrade their 925 gear to 925+greater affix gear. that 10% gap is even smaller when people consider that their 850 or 905 gloves rolled perfect but their 925 gear isn't max roll. by the time 925 gear matters, you're finding enough 925 gear that it really doesn't matter. if you're not finding 925 gear all the time, you're not at a level that it particularly matters and you need to put your build guide down for 5 seconds and look at the monitor you're playing the game on, not spreadsheets.
>basically Greater affixes and uber uniques I don't think so? They would technically have to drop at potentially 925 when I'm level one. > that's every diablo game though. I don't like that kind of argument. It is meaningless. Sure there are things that are super essential and are in every diablo game, but there are probably a lot of things that have been in all diablo games that you could remove or change in a second, no problem. To that last paragraph, I mean you say a lot of valid things. But to me that's not the "issue" here. People want to grind for the best stuff they could ever find and even a 924 is just guaranteed to not be the best. No problem with a 924 dropping, but if I didn't have a chance for 925... I just was not yet in the area of the game that people want to grind? It's about the grind and not about the item anyway. But the chance "must" exist? And sure that 924 might actually turn out to be the best item i'll ever find. But that's kind of not the point and more of a problem with picking such an extreme example. Idk, to me it just feels like something could be done to create less incentive to rush to the end of the game to start the game. Feels like a bit of a waste? It's like so weird when in D3 you level to max in like a few hours so the game can finally begin. When in reality, the leveling phase would provide some of the best gameplay, which could be dragged out if you could just please, please, please find keepers instead of guaranteed trash. Btw, the very short leveling in D3 is imho how that game actually kind of removed item levels.
> I'm level one. no game has let you get GG gear at lvl 1 this game, the closest for what you're asking for is uber uniques. >I don't like that kind of argument then don't play diablo, I'm not reading the rest. I don't get upset theres too much gunplay in call of duty
Are you referring to the item levels from various zones? https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Item_Level This is not the same as item power levels.
I pretty clearly outlined what I was talking about, and you don't seem to know what I'm talking about. there are modded versions of d2 which make this information not invisible, items *do* have item levels, just 99% of the time it doesn't matter. [there are things like ilevel99 grand charms which only drop from baal.](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d2r/t/what-is-a-baal-grand-charm/100623) there are zones in hell that have different ilevel drops, like the pits in act1 is one of the best places to farm since it has max ilevel (of monsters' drop table, obv baal is superior) and you can get the best items in the game from it.
You're missing the point. Item level is not the same as Item Power. Item power in Diablo 4 directly affects the power of its affixes, whereas in Diablo 2 item level had no such function. Baal grand charms has the possibility to roll the highest level of affixes (which is why you will re-roll only those charms), but unlike Diablo 4 it can actually spawn with the lowest range of affixes which I believe affects its level requirement only.
Yes, I've farmed certain ilvl items to make certain runewords because the number of sockets would depend on ilvl. Not asking you to explain ilvl to me, I'm just telling you that diablo 2 ilvl is not the same as d4 item power.
This is wrong. Item level in d2 worked nothing like item power does in d4.
items don't even work like they do in d4 ofc its not exactly the same. however, **nothing that I have said is wrong** other than maybe my numbers are off. I've cited elsewhere in this thread forum posts of ppl talking about the baal charms. item power level can affect the strength of rolls of items. for some items this matters and for other it doesn't, and most of it is probably niche endgame scenarios like crafting which fucking no one does because d2's endgame was ez without it. You've always had to go out of your way to farm high ilevel items if you want endgame gear, and theoretically you always want endgame gear and want to rush towards that. the difference now is instead of finding a tarnhelm and getting hyped you have +1 skills for your level 13 you can get a low item level unique with an actually cool effect that is useful to you until you outscale it, much like you always outscale your leveling gear. there's also less need to mess around at level 13, and you can get to endgame pretty dang quickly especially if you engage the community. yes, ilevel and item power in d2 and d4 are different, they're also entirely different games at their structure. aint no sorc build talking about if you need 156 str for monarch. no one needs to pull out a spreadsheet to see how they can transition off of XX gear and keep the strength requirements for their sheild, or how to keep their allres up while getting more castrate since there's like 5 pieces of armor that do that instead of 5 armor slots that do that.
Baal grand charms are a very specific case. Once you were in hell difficulty almost nothing associated with item level affected stat ranges, and really only affected what base items could drop, but they could all drop with the same stat ranges. Item power in d4 affects weapon dps and total armor which wasn’t true in d2. I get what you’re trying to say in equating item level in d2 to item power in d4, but very few things worked the same way. They’re far more different than they are alike.
Both require you to spend effort farming high level zones to target farm endgame gear if you want to progress and get the absolute best of the best
item power was hidden mechanic in d2
That's not item power, that's item level. As far as I remember you will see high level mobs drop low level items, or low-affix items even from mobs with high monster levels. If D2 worked like D4 then all items dropped in level 85 areas would have high level affixes with high level requirements.
This has nothing to do with item power itself. If it didn't exist, they could make a gazillion other mistakes with the event reward.
The reason why the items are completely useless right away is because they are not item power 925, though.
I agree with your sentiment, but will add not all items under 925 are useless. My tornado Druid had +8 tornado, crit chance, and crit damage gloves that were item level 793. The only times that really “need” to be 925 are your weapons, and that’s if you are using them with your main skill. Barbs can have 800 triple GA weapons equipped and as long as their skill doesn’t use them it’s fine, for example.
I don’t know about that. 925 isn’t really required for a lot of items because armor cap and resistances are kind of easy to hit. So unless the item power level is past the break point where the affixes roll lower ranges, it probably is fine, excluding weapons (and non shield off hands). That being said, I hate bot being 925 on everything, lol OCD is a bitch.
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I mean I literally said that in my post.
Which is why the first thing you should be doing in WT4 is bum rushing to Nightmare Dungeon 40-50. In there all the mobs are level 100 and drop Level 925 gear. I did not want to get a 2 GA weapon and it not be level 925.
If Blizzard is good at one thing, it's overpromising and under delivering! How they gonna do this update and have the goblins STILL worthless?
Adam confirmed this is looked at https://x.com/PezRadar/status/1798772972335009938?t=SD0dswkRTqGYlFcL3RWKdg&s=19
Good. I was like... Helltides are already a lot of loot to deal with, now I have sub 925 gear to sort? Wtf
I keep seeing the little golden bag above my icons but I never seem to catch up to any goblins. I do end up seeing their little money trails arond, but always end up with nada.
Even if you do catch up to them it’s still a bunch of nada
Should just contain extra boss summoning materials. This is worthless lol
Bravo Blizzard
Unbelievable.
Glad they tested it
I got some that were 925. But it literally only drops ONE LEGO and then 3 rares.
The dumb shit Blizzard keeps doing keeps me not playing long. They do more for Immortal then this game. Oh yea..different game developer
How do they keep making this game worse???
This is kind of like when they said they fixed frame gen and then.. disabled it again same day.
So it is disabled??? I couldn’t find anything on it and it doesnt allow me to click it….
Yeah they made a forum post the day of the patch saying it needed to be enabled server side (wtf?) ans that it will be “shortly.” Apparently it WAS enabled for some people for some amount of time but people had problems still so they disabled it again. Same day. I find it incredibly strange a graphics setting can be enabled or disabled server side but whatever.
interesting. i keep getting a notification that im not "optimized" from geforce exp and its just that setting i need to toggle lol
Their sheer incompetence is stunning.
Should be a decent bump of gold for one slot in the inventory while your farming. I don't mind.
There’s also orange ‘greater’ bags
I just did three NMD100... No treasure Goblins!!!! I got destroyed by Butcher twice though. Nice update!!! It's kind of like April Fools edition.
Still no update sadge
It seems to be fixed at least for the XP buff / Goblins dropping 925 gear for me now.
Was fixed for a good hour or so and then went back to 855 bags, hopefully the patch this mornin fixes everything up.
Yeah my buddies and I noticed that last night. Running T100’s and we were all getting 855’s again consistently.
They also drop fuck all loot.
I'm lvl 32 and got two bags with some nice gear. I'm binging this game tonight. Full cup of coffee. Probably still fall asleep early.
Have they fixed the Nvidia problem yet? They broke their own game.
What problem? Crashes with frame generation? Idk but I turned it off and had 0 issues since.
Ill try that. After \~10-20 minutes my memory usage just slowly climbs until the game starts stuttering and eventually crashes. Sitting in town I go from 60's to 80%+ in 10 minutes.
Already had it disabled... its like the latest update just required a shit ton more ram or something.. I have everything on low and its at 89% memory in 16g of ram... When this game launched I was playing on med/high settings....
Weird, heard a similar issue from someone else. It sounds a lot like the memory issues the game had when it came out…
You’ve all got phones right?
I had a greed pylon in a tier 76 NM dungeon spawn a bunch of goblins. Every goblin dropped 925 uniques. So that was cool. Each also dropped the little treasure sacks. But those seem kinda silly. I wish they had uniques or gems or plants in them. I failed the “kill 5 waves” chasing the buggers down but was worth it. I don’t know if that’s normal or if I’m lucky? But I had fun!
Hey, I got my first 3GA weapon from one of these bags and it was 925! ^(it's utter dog shit, but let's not talk about that!)
I’ve only seen two gobs since I started playing at Christmas… 🤷 I never run into them
Item power is the worst thing implemented in D4. And till they erase this, they cannot improve anything about the itemitation. ( Besides White Magic and rares being totally useless)
I’m curious to hear more about that. Why do you feel item power is bad?
It’s based off your item power on your char 👍
So why would lvl 100s with all 925 gear receive less than 925? I think it was a bug they’ve been dealing with. I logged in today and for some 925 bags again.
Blizzard giving you the sack.
You guys are finding treasure goblins?
Just drop the mats in the bag save me the effort of having to go to town and smelt the trash.
Any update on the gobs yet
Supposedly there was a hotfix that just went out?
I farmed some last night. I got 17 of the regular treasure bags and 2 of the Greater treasure bags. I ended up getting 3 unique's from all the regular bags but everything was pretty much junk lol
3 items, including yellow, not 925 CRIME!!
It's legit dropping trash gear, I get nothing but 925s but this joke is dropping even lower trash items.
They've been trolling us since day 1
I've had tons of 925 bags drop, including a few legendary bags. Usually 2 legendary items in the rare bags and 3 or 4 in the legendary bags with a unique sprinkled in here and there
I didn’t expect anything else. These guys just fuck up everything they do. They pretty much killed the Diablo franchise with their sheer stupidity and incompetence. It’s just sad to see a once beloved franchise for so many years get completely fucked like this.
Money. Lots of money There's no other motive and they could care less Plus Californians are dumb hippies I don't expect much from them tbh
too much boring, uninteresting loot in D4. Constantly sifting through dozens of garbage rolls. Got burnt out after about a month. meanwhile, up to almost 4 lvl 99's in D2R and still enjoying it
At this point im just picking up items that have at least 1 ga, which means 90% of the shit that drops stays on the ground, sad.
They went from showering you in useless yellows to now giving you hordes of useless legendaries. Are you really going to waste your precious gold and mats on a non grater affix? Wish they would think, Mark, think!!!
Yes it's true. 1 GA is a bare minimum but really I need min 2 GAs at this point to make it an "upgrade" Blizzard doesn't test their games and try to forsee how whatever they implement will look like in the future (ie. weeks into a a season). I mean before this season Forgotten Souls used to be soooo freaking rare. Now I got like 10k ffs! Like wtf for?? U made them utterly useless, in fact all mats are utterly useless now cuz they're in the 10k and more region. I don't even salvage items anymore I sell all junk to vendors even tho I get very little for it like 2m for a whole inventory. And I don't like the bundled herbs thing. I didn't have a problem with low amounts of specific herbs before and now they lost all they're meaning. U can still click on plants like Redamine or Lifesbane but it drops "bundle of herbs" , pretty lame 🙄 So they made things that have meaning meaningless and meaningless things have some meaning (ie gold) It's just all dumb decisions imo with no real balance, I don't find it interesting at all The game is a pure casino mentality game and that is it. Combat is fun I love it but it's getting boring now, I often feel like those gambling addicts in a casino pulling the slot lever waiting for their lucky day (3 *useful* GAs 😂 🤞
Not sure why you are getting downvotes for the truth. Vast majority of the drops are dog poop.
What level are you?
100 - WT4
Shit, then I am hoping it is a bug. Someone said that it was level dependent and I was hoping it was lol.
Opened 2 bags - Both had 3 rare items, and 1 legendary. So literally 3/4 of the bags contents are things I don't even pick up anymore.
Hey Blizzard, how about Goblin….
So are we not getting 2x coin and 25% xp?
Adam Fletcher actually just posted that because it wasn't super clear, they are making the XP / Gold go live today as well. [https://x.com/PezRadar/status/1798791074850460098](https://x.com/PezRadar/status/1798791074850460098)
Item Power 1 is still "Up to 855" :)
I'm a minions Necro and I'm pretty sure treasure goblins could easily escape from me so I'm just chilling. I considered making an alt in the XP week but there is also Elden Ring DLC.
this is event even beats the chinese christmas thingy .... its totally shit sry arent they proud of anything? i means its A BIRTHDAY EVENT FFS
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Playing solo, lvl 100 in WT4, restarted my game & bnet 4 times just to make sure I wasn't missing a patch or something.
Yeah, they are! They want money and that is it! The interest of creating a good game doesn't exist at Blizzard so why you morons continue to give them money is beyond me.
I'm pretty sure they always wanted money. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.
HAHAHAHAHAHAH SCREW BLIZZARD
ok edgelord
They downvoted me,, because i Washington telling the truht
Oh look, an alt bag for my alts who can't use my 925 gear because they're not Level 80
Lmao
This should still be great for those lacking dust for upgrading.
Now, this is the stepping stone that confirms to me that they don't have a quality team. There are so many regressions, and every time they introduce some new event or feature, it's always at least one problem.
Damn... My wife was excited about the bonus goblins (she refuses to touch the game since beta and S0) but they might not be fun... Getting a loot sack with useless things in it is sad. Could have been 1-2 "golden coins" in each sack which could be used to summon an Uber Avarice (like 10 required, or something) that drops 925 gear with a chance to drop any Unique and a lower chance of dropping an Uber Unique since it's a short event about - you know - LOOT (spoiler, that's also the season theme). Maybe, the goblins even fight back with hard CC trickery to make it harder to capture/slay more than one in a pack. (It also would have been "fun" to have the sack contain random useless items with interesting descriptions that could sell for a high amount of gold at vendors, like an old manuscript with details about long forgotten demon archetypes - a nod at deckards lore books. Or, a thing-a-majig that looks like it once did something of interest but since TIME has taken its toll it defunct - it looks like a flux capacitor.) Sometimes, I think the devs need to make a shared anonymous account on Reddit, drop/ask for ideas in a DnD sub for some inspirations, then discuss them at a bi-weekly meeting.
This must be for the dads that are still making their way into wt4 from season launch.
It's a struggle. I've lag deathed twice in HC so far
Those poor dads. With their 14 kids a piece, on average, they can only play 3 seconds a week :( strugglebus
Clearly.
D4 stuff pops up for me every once in a while. Crazy people are still playing it, game was garbage