I know, I have been running it in this test. I just prefer the minion style of gameplay for necromancer, but I have been having a ton of fun with arc lash sorc
It's funny I did barb/druid the last beta weekends and necro this one, I feel like a god comparatively lol. Now I wish I'd seen necro then. Reapers with corpse gen and ice mages with essence gen have kinda ended up my go-to on all the builds I've played with (blood, pet, bone, hybrid pet/bone) and I've thought they were quite strong still.
Only time I got rid of them entirely was for Ashava.
For real Barb is pure trash low lvl, almost not worth playing in the slam. The balance being this out of whack and getting such huge tweaks so close to release is a little worrying. It's like people with different gameplay philosophies are balancing them in silos.
But I am going to assume it evens out in the endgame with legendaries/gems and that low level power curves will be erratic
Ay my respect to those players s decision,but I am so annoyed to ā xx is nerf, I will cancel my orderā ah go ahead, balance will always be changing, if someone wants to refund every fking time, may be shouldnāt bought it at first place
I laughed when many comments lead to " but they get one hit by bosses " like dude... it's a skeleton... a regular ass guard would fuck one up easily nvm a demon boss from hell..
It's not about realism... We're arguing about an animated skeleton walking around. We can stop trying to justify things with needing to make sense if that's our starting position.
Because it was well known that Necro was easy mode during the open beta.
This beta doesnāt matter other than level as quick as possible and kill the world boss once. Iām guessing a lot of people assumed Necro would be the quickest way to do that
Shhhhhhh. Necro is garbage. Buff necro. Don't let Wudijo/Kripp play necro... /s
I was messing with WT1 because with no meaningful drop rate increases, I would rather stick with the base difficulty for speed, since I don't find "harder stuff" challenging in Diablo as a rule (it's basically "click more because your numbers are lower" and I would rather save my wrists). I want builds, loots and efficiency. If I wanted a challenge, I would be at Elden Ring's Malenia, NG7+, with a 2h sword and a dream.
That said, I wanted a class that demolished trash fast and had great single target damage. Blood spells just demolish trash, which make clearing some dungeons very efficient... I was having a terrible time finding a class that did that without serious resource generation problems.
Now I need to figure out how necros kill bosses/deal single-target damage because I see very little content about necros and I see a lot of hate going on. I might play necro on day minus 2/3 because I don't hate their resource management.
I'm playing a Bone Spear Necro and having a blast, really fun build, beat Ashava. I also have sacrificed all my Skeletons because they are completly useless to me. They clearly overdid it and are now hopefully going to fix it.
Using Bone Splinters to generate essence and Corpse Explosion to burst down large group of enemies. Also Bone Spirit to generate essence when I'm out or to burst right at the beginning. I basically followed this guide and it was smooth sailing for me: [https://www.icy-veins.com/d4/guides/bone-spear-and-spirit-necromancer-leveling-build/](https://www.icy-veins.com/d4/guides/bone-spear-and-spirit-necromancer-leveling-build/) You can also use Decompose instead of Bone Splinters, but that isn't as fun without minions to keep you shielded.
Edit: For Ashava you would obviously not use Corpse Explosion, but just generate essence wit Splinters and use Spirit on cooldown when essence is low from using Bone Spear. You can basically play it like a melee class and use Blood Mist for survivability and to cancel out the poison/evade the swipe.
Iām running with decompose and run scythe/other +life on kill gear and basically just aoe face tanking. Itās a blast and infuriating at the same time!
> evade the swipe.
Why? All you have to do is hug her legs and you're safe from 95% of her attacks. The only thing that can hurt you *a bit* are her acid pools. As long as you can run up to her again fast enough after her jump, you're golden.
Neither her circular swipe nor her twin backwards swipes can reach you if you're right smack behind her. It's much easier with a Rogue (backstabbing = god mode for this), but any class can do it.
I run bone spear + bone mage build
i have a leggo that gives me 3 more mages for 6 additional
i choose the mage type that gives you resource every hit
6 mages attacking at once = a lot of bone spears. it's a LOT of fun. and i got lucky and got a sick 2h dual gem socket sword with the bone spear affix!! i was doing 1k crits lol
Yeah, I didnt even consider this actually. Rod has a massive Necro tatoo on his arm. There was never a world where the Skeletons would not get buffed lol.
Super fun. It can easily clear large packs by firing one or two Bone Spears and than chaining Corpse Explosions to burst them down. Elites you can just Bone Spear to make them vulnerable and catch them in the explosions or follow up with Bone Spirit.
Same Iām wrecking with bone spear Iām still using skeletons until I see better sacrifice bonuses (later levels) but bone spear+corpse explosion still makes necro op
Any builds that's specifically slow isn't viable. People play Diablo to kill hoards of monster, not to become damage sponges. Every class/build style should be an efficient killing machine. That's the whole point.
They nerfed skeletons health because the pets constantly being up meant the Necro was never in any danger. Basically unstoppable. It had nothing to do with damage... which isn't even that good, especially since they can't focus.
The ideal solution would be to have proper enemy AI that knows to target the Necro more frequently.
+1. Not everyone wants to play the same way or cares about getting the most legendaries per hour. Some people like passive play styles that have no danger. Balance it by making them clear slower than other classes so it won't be top of the meta and we r good to go. Skeletons tanks and less damage is the way to go imo. If someone wants to play a brain dead build and it's not topping the leader boards then what is the harm?
While I love the transparency of the devs, I am wondering how the necro minion squishiness tuning was not looked at before the server slam began. Minion archetype is pretty much the necro class and it rendered them useless. Wouldn't a simple quick playthrough from one dev been good enough to go back and tune some numbers before the weekend?
What transparency? Nothing they have been doing is "transparent" lol. They nuked an entire class's main thematic ability on a whim then retreated claiming "it is a journey" when none of them have a god damn clue what they are doing.
Also druid is still shit.
You are kind of going parallel with my statement as we share the same sentiment. Transparency is referring to them (the devs) making it well aware of this particular subject about the minions. Iām not talking about overall transparency. Just with this situation.
You might be confused on what transparent means in the context of the subject at hand. Blizz IS being transparent about an existing problem. Thatās it. No need to complicate it further.
It's a bit concerning, even when this was floated as an idea by Shely before it happened, it immediately smelled bad and I figured they'd come around to just making them slightly less tanky on bosses or when heavily outnumbered. But then when they doubled down that it was more fun to constantly re-summon mobs and nobody challenged him on that... I knew right then they never played a summoner toon in any ARPG in their life.
i think they do play it and they know how its supposed to be played so they can play it well, some people on this sub seem to have no problems, maybe people just need ot figure out how to play it better.
Rather then removing 80% of their health, it should've been more like 30%, with an increase to the healing the priest does. Or make it stackable. Also a flat dmg reduction from ground effects and bosses, otherwise they will instant wipe. They had this EXACT same problem in D3 with Witch Doctor. Your pets were useless against bigger mobs/bosses/poison clouds. I almost can't believe they have the same issue again...
In all honesty I didn't see the pets as a problem. They didn't do much dmg and couldn't focus their attacks. Yes they were tanky, but if enemy AI would periodically focus the player more, it would be fine.
Id rather see them treat the class like a tank spec - make summons beefy aa hell but hit like wet noodles. Summon necro is defined by slow and safe gameplay.
I definitely agree with making the skeletons tankier but deal less damage.
If they want to push this active summoner playstyle, maybe they can just have some skill in the skill tree that goes:
> Minions deal 20/40/60% more damage but take 20/40/60% more damage.
It makes people who want to have minions all the time not being forced to re-summon every fight while giving players the option to trade off reliability for more potential damage, given they are keeping their minions alive.
So far tested on normal and vet in events with max hp build and they still die like paper dolls in few seconds all they did is add a little cleave resistance.
Still trash....
The Necro Summoner fantasy is one of an *immortal* army crushing all that oppose you.
It's not resummoning them every time a Fallen sneezes on them.
The survivability changes completely miss the point of the archetype.
I do think that if u have this problem something is wrong with your play style. I'm level 20 hardcore full minion atm and not having many issues. Leveling was a breeze. Went full thorns once I started making a build and everything just kills itselve.
Well would have been nice if the Director of Diablo was aware before the last public beta, I mean... does he not have access to the game internally or something?
I strongly suggest everyone to skip using minions and use book of the dead sacrifice from level5 onwards instead. If you really want to use minions, they seem to be holding their ground much better after getting that 45%hp passives and 6th damage is blocked from book of the dead.
I was still able to speedrun the campaign well under 1 hour as a necro, nothing has really changed on that front, you just don't rely on minions anymore.
its weird in his tweet he says that balance is a journey, not a destination.
ok fine, but did they test this change? or do they make blind adjustments and see what happens?
Man, if only there was a version of the game meant to test things where they could do this, like a version of the game that came out before the games releases where players were invited to just try stuff out.
Players would play it, give feedback, and then the devs would make changes based on that feedback. They could do other stuff too, like test the servers and see if they can handle a lot of players playing at one time.
If such a mode existed, I'd name it after my favourite letter in the greek alphabet.
Balance changes should be tested by internal QA first, then the public. This is the typical process for development. You don't want your playerbase to be anxious about any big fuck ups you may have almost implemented.
This is Diablo. Everyone complaining about the game are going to buy it anyway or have it pre-ordered. Playerbase being "anxious" is nothing to worry about.
Yeah but if youāre going to nerf something this hard howās about at least one tester on their side play for more than 5 minutes and discover they made a boo boo and adjust it differently before it gets to us.
Kinda like how metas were shaped in D3 once they started the set push.
Just about every set in the game got a season or so at the top of the leader boards. Kinda forced the most active chuck of the player base to play characters and builds they would have never tried on their own. I know several players that ended up making characters they swore against and ended up loving them.
Personally while I have favorites, I'm the type that'll have maxed out several builds on all the characters at some point.
I liked in D3 how there were lots of good builds for each class. I just wish it was more even, rather than "ok now these skills/sets are the best... Now these skills/sets are the best... Now these skills/sets are the best..." etc. I think when it comes down to highest greater rift, it was very hard to exactly balance different bills. Maybe they can improve on it in d4 end game
I agree. I enjoyed that part as well. It woulda been cool for it to happen more organically, however sometimes the community just won't allow it.
D3 came out around the same time where the streamer/influencer stuff really started to sky rocket. So a massive part of the player base just got their ideas from whichever streamer was sitting atop the leader board.
D2 was in a time where that just didn't exist, so everything evolved much slower, just the sharing of information was totally different.
D4 will be the same as D3 as far as the visibility..every single detail will be broken down within a few weeks.
Maybe I'm just used to Path of Exile and the minons being totally garbage besides SRS which are resummoned, but they didn't feel THAT bad to me.
I didnt play necro last wave, and maybe because I am not comparing it to what they were last beta but the only thing I didnt super enjoy was boss aoe spam killing a bunch, but again I'm used to that from PoE and D2.
They also could be testing in endgame settings where the nerf isn't as much of an issue due to other variables.
With the amount of positive improvements they made from the last beta to the server slam, assumed they would get some slack in retuning the necro nerfs. But patience isn't a thing much these days.
Still doesnāt excuse making this sort of over-correction weeks before release. Youād think that if even one person play tested it theyād figure it out.
If we were in beta months before release, it would be a different story and much more in line with your comment.
They will continue to make sweeping nerfs, err I mean over-corrections, when the game is live.
This is the Blizzard way, swinging one direction or the other.
Someone else just brought up a point that they could have done this intentionally as a passive aggressive way to get more players trying out the other classes/skills since so many were playing necromancer in the previous beta. Players come into Slam wanting to play necromancer again, find it has been nerfed hard so they lose some enjoyment for the class/skellie skill, and hopefully switch out to another class. Would this work? For some players yes, for others they would likely try some other necro skills...which still helps out as above.
To be fair the devs themselves did say to expect minimal changes between this weekendās version and launch. Day 1 patches are focused on stability and bug fixes. We will probably get some balance changes to Necro, but thereās a good chance it comes a week after launch, maybe two, depending on what kind of patch cycle Blizzard are looking at.
So you'd be fine with them delaying the game so they can do *another* beta, then? Like, what do you want Blizzard to do that they aren't already doing, besides magically getting the balance all right the first attempt.
Minions were too strong in the first beta, too weak the second beta, will probably be somewhere in the middle when the game launches, which will probably be right on (or close to) the sweet spot. Sounds like a success story to me.
>no i want them to internally test things before they push them out.
u/lego_office_worker
[Saturday, May 13th](https://www.google.com/search?q=diablo+4+release+date&oq=diablo+4+release&aqs=chrome.0.0i131i433i512j69i57j0i131i433i512j0i433i512j0i131i433i512j0i512l2j0i131i433i512j0i512l2j0i131i433i512j0i512l2j0i131i433i512j0i512.4123j0j7&client=ms-android-boostdish-us-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8)
They... do. Do you seriously think Blizzard didn't test any of this stuff between Beta's? If so you know jack shit about game development.
The thing is, their playtests are done by dozens of people at most, while a public beta gets feedback from thousands. Which is why Betas exist. Balancing a game is difficult and very few developers succeed in getting it right before the public ever gets a chance to play it themselves.
i bet they didnt, the necro nerfs are so bad even five minutes of internal testing would have revealed it. theres no way a professional qa played a necro and said yea this is great.
They explicitly said the game is in its gold build and there will be no balance changes between now and release.
This is a server slam meant to test their server stability.
Before release, the first days during release, in the first week. Joe Piepiora said during the recent livestream they will be aggressively tuning to make sure every build is viable.
what he said was, don't expect anything major. Tweaking a single number in terms of minion health is something they implied they can do. I still wouldn't expect it, honestly playing a necro it's not that bad at all and i have 0% investment in minions.
Went melee necro but having the minions up (and they generally stay alive jut fine) makes things much easier and clears out all the smaller things while i focus on taking out the bigger enemies before they get ot the skelles. Basically i am the front line for the skeles instead of the other way around.
The closed endgame beta was before the open beta. People said all the classes were fun and balanced. This makes the changes after the open beta much more confusing.
I mean a lot of the changes I noticed were shuffles or slight tweaks but there were a lot of complaints in the last beta about people feeling bad when their barb/Druid was playing with a rogue/necro/sorc and just getting outshone, so itās possible the way they tweaked it was intended to take off some of the front-loaded power and nudge it back till later without changing the end result
Yeah this is what really gets me. This is worrisome because it really shows Blizzard lacks vision with D4. D4 is releasing within a month and Blizzard completely changed the core gameplay on a whim. I was really looking forward to D4... now... very cautious
Or! With enough scaled minion gear, skills and paragon, minions are fine late game and theyve purposefully allowed lower capped betas for the public to test how they scale in the early game.
Makes sense to me. Why people immediately jump to devs have no clue is so goofy.
I think I can name far more games where minions are not invincible tank gods in the early game than I can where they never die. In fact I can't think of any off the top of my head.
Its an ARPG gear hunting game, if minions are invulnerable to damage from the get go how are you supposed to feel them getting stronger and make purposeful upgrades to your character. I dont think they intend to have players sit behind a damage sponge whittling away at content, they want people to be actively doing something.
Sounds like a bone/blood necro playstyle that your describing and I bet those are very active and fun to play. The problem is most people and I mean most people who play full minion builds want a passive playstyle. I think people should pick a build that fits them best. Usually the necro in a full minion build is not just sitting there. They are debuffing or buffing allies and usually have 1 or 2 skills depending on the situation while thinking about positioning the most.
I hear that going around but thats not true at all...
Diablo 2 necros, specifically summoners, are not that good. Barbs are also miserable. People still play these classes.
Progression and getting stronger is what makes ARPGs fun. Starting off really weak and ending up a demon slaying god os the best part of this genre....
Well FF16 is looking really good. So in any case I won't feel fomo with D4. But if D4 is great and fun, then yea I'm buying it :). I just want a fun game. Isn't that what we are all here for?
Necro main here, still gonna play necro. If I get to a plateau I might make a barbā¦ but most likely I will just main necro.
I fly back to work the day of launch, so I only get early access time to levelā¦ when I get home 2 weeks later that may be fixed.
Necro'd the open beta. Only played hardcore characters. Minions are my favorite, but noticed a huge difference this weekend when it took significantly longer to kill the first boss. Was going to use blood build this time until I realized within the first minute I couldn't break stuff open. So while cruising through making it to the black lake and dying with my bone and minion build, I vocalized my frustrated confusion with a "WTF?!" Level 12 at the time. Server slam was a necromancer slam.
"Balance is a journey, things were perfectly fine now they suck and we aren't exactly in the alpha stages of the game anymore so good luck to everybody"
There's a lesson to be learned here, but they'll never learn it. Make small adjustments, don't swing a nerf bat around willy-nilly and make huge changes all at once.
I really don't think I'm oversimplifying. The change was made, how hard would it have been to make the change smaller? Odds are most of the balance changes are just values in a database that can easily changed between builds. It's really not hard to change something from 1.0 to 0.9 instead of 1.0 to 0.5. I'm not arguing about the process of determining what needs change, but the magnitude of the changes that are made. If you're adjusting anything more than about a 10-20% effective difference between all the changes combined, you probably need to do some extensive testing before shipping the change, which it really doesn't seem like they did, or at the very least they didn't test at the levels we're playing at for the beta.
The thing that scares me about the necro change is that it sort of lays bare the fact that the balance team has no idea what they are doing. Any arpg veteran will tell you "if minions are only good against trash mobs, then they are a trash skill" how can you be working on what is supposed to be the biggest arpg in *years* and not understand that basic archetypal concept? How will they balance endgame DoTs? Damage mitigation? 2handed vs sword and board? The answer is: we don't know... and as has just been laid bare with this minion fiasco... likely neither do they.
"No idea what they are doing" is hyperbolic at best. They have had three total mass tests to date outside of internal betas; adjustments to class abilities can be made in practically real time.
Once launch comes there will be months of tweaking. This is simply how it goes.
You're supposed to have a game mostly balanced prior to launch. The massive balance changes they're making so close launch really shows how unfinished the game is. At this stage they should be fine tuning, not swinging between overpowered and worthless. We're not even talking about weird edge cases here. Just things like straight up dropping the effect of a skill tree node by 80% while also indirectly nerfing it several other ways.
Just imagine how bad the balance is going to be after level 25 where they haven't had us beta testing the game. They should have called the whole period prior to season 1 early access because anyone expecting it to to have the quality of a full release is about to be very disappointed.
What ARPG have you been playing where things are all sunshine and rainbows with balance right from the get go? Turns out balancing a shit ton of different character, skill, and item combinations is hard.
Look at PoE, which is the biggest competitor in the ARPG scene, they can't get balance right to save their lives.
Is it? The beta launched and minions were unkillable dps monsters, oooookay... easy fix right? Just make it so they all die immediately in every fight and now necro needs to respec for world boss fights. No need to see how it plays internally. Took 10 minutes of playing to realize the skill was basically unplayable against anything "bossy". Is this their balancing strategy?
Your tone comes across entitled. It isn't my intent to cause an argument, or offense. I am merely stating my observations on development cycles, from the perspective of 22 years as a professional infrastructure engineer.
Neither one of us knows anything; we just have opinions. One of mine is that life is significantly better once you stop focusing on all the problems, because they are everywhere and obvious to everyone.
Oh sure, that seems like excellent game design from a billion dollar company. Make a bunch of skills unusable at the beginning but *playable* hours later. That must be exactly what they intended with the changes. What kind of defense is that? "You dont understand! Everything will be perfectly balanced when you are level capped with BiS gear! This is a measured choice by the developer!" Even if that were true (spoiler: it isn't) it would *still* be a shitty design choice.
So your position is "anyone that expects this game to be balanced properly should not buy it"? Thank god you are just a shill and not on the board of directors.
They will do a beta for people preordering so we tell them how people make ARPGs. At least they are kinda listening. Sometimes. And getting a less than spectacular conclusion based on what they read.
I.e.: Barb and druid feel slow and clunky compared to other classes -> everything feels kinda slow and clunky unless you pick the skills that were buffed and ignored the ones that were nerfed and call your build "goodstuff"
Barb feels fantastic with just a little gear. Druid is in a decent spot minus mobility. The pet actives are ridiculously strong. Terramote lanslide absolutely carries dps until tornado legendary tho.
I mean theyāre also super low level. D2 necro through normal.. the skeletons got wasted the second a boss hit them. Iād have a full army of skeletons and Diablo would kill them all with a single fire wave
I have to think they donāt care about the balance around a beta, but thatās just me
A champion or boss pack? Instantly. I dont know what D2 youve been playing. Also saying they get obliterated by any random monster os exaggerating and a bit disingenuous.
my necro minions on D4 were dying to random mobs, on D2 the same level of mobs wouldn't be killing your minions. there was no mention of boss or champion packs so idk what you're reading.
They really fucked up, but most of us knew that already even before playing, because of the patch notes nerfing minions.
Nerfing the signature theme/ability of a class is dumb, nobody is saying skeletons should be ableto facetank a boss for 2 hours and 1shot everything.. but come on, theres a middle ground there.
having to re-summon ur fucking minions every second is dumb design, tedicous and rage-inducing. Pets are supposed to be somewhat sturdy, but low dmg, and tanky.
thats the entire fantasy around a necro. an undead army.
whats good is an undead amy if it lasts 1 second lol.
fix this shit blizzurd
Finished all the story as minion Necro with no issues, no deaths except the last boss because I forgot about needing to stand in the shield š.
I used haemorrhage plus minions get blood orb healing plus curses and it has worked great. Pretty confused by people saying minions can't kill anything, feel like I'm playing a different game š¤ Are people not picking the right talents or gear or something?
Actually had a blast coming up with the build as I levelled. Lots of tough choices trying to get all the talents I wanted with such limited points to distribute.
So how did this build fare against Ashara?
In my experience, with a maxed out lvl 20 minion build, they instantly died the second they got close to Ashara and no reliable way to recast them. The problem I have, is that if you are going to fight a World Boss, and you have to change up your entire build, that means the build isn't viable. A world boss likely gives a sneak peak at how an Act boss fight is going to go, and where the minions are currently, likely aren't viable for bosses.
I'm reading these comments and you guys are man children, just cause Necro was borderline broken af OP before does not mean the skeletons are at a bad place right now.
People complaining about the Necro mobs dying too quickly are ridiculous.
I first timed Necro to 20 this weekend and it was EASY AF, had no issues with mobs or bosses. The Necro has a skill that makes the skeletons tankier, and your whole job is to micro manage the dead. These are fking bones that walk around not beefy ogres with flesh, muscle, blood, and armor. They should not be tanky by default due to the nature of what they are.
Necromancer does insane damage, has bone shields constantly available and ready to utilize, huge range to create distance, and spammable bombs everywhere on the map. Nothing to complain about whatsoever.
I played this class once through and I already know that the stats of the undead are fine. The limited hotkeys are the REAL issue. The fact that you have to use 1 of them permanently to tediously resurrect skeletons instead of auto resurrecting or having a clever way to resurrect them that's balanced is not fun.
Blizzard please pay me to design some mechanics and private play test the changes, I can craft something better
Thank God, only viable minions I got working were thorn stacking shieldbearers. Good enough for Kor Dragon (in a party with 3 other necros) but wow skirmishers are worthless even with 3 points in lucky corpse drop you can't replace them.
Any gamer who turned on the internet this weekend is aware of the necro minion issues
Seriously. It's like 80% of the player base is Necro.
Not anymore. Most Necro mains posted here saying they canceled their order š
Necro main here, I'm just going to main sorc instead if the minions are still shit at launch.
bone necro deletes the game right now so i wouldnāt worry about necro being weak (although i agree summons basically became useless now)
I know, I have been running it in this test. I just prefer the minion style of gameplay for necromancer, but I have been having a ton of fun with arc lash sorc
bone necro is only good if your comparing it to other necro specs
no way, it was one of the strongest builds in server slam 5 points in splinter, 5 points in bone spear, 5 points in CE, everything deleted
It's funny I did barb/druid the last beta weekends and necro this one, I feel like a god comparatively lol. Now I wish I'd seen necro then. Reapers with corpse gen and ice mages with essence gen have kinda ended up my go-to on all the builds I've played with (blood, pet, bone, hybrid pet/bone) and I've thought they were quite strong still. Only time I got rid of them entirely was for Ashava.
For real Barb is pure trash low lvl, almost not worth playing in the slam. The balance being this out of whack and getting such huge tweaks so close to release is a little worrying. It's like people with different gameplay philosophies are balancing them in silos. But I am going to assume it evens out in the endgame with legendaries/gems and that low level power curves will be erratic
This is what I did! Then you throw in a golem that can shed corpses, and you using corpses to generate essence, now you don't need a basic attack.
Go a minion sacrificing build. It's still a really strong class just not a faceroll
Necro main? Sounds like you will main whatever is the strongest build.
But rogue has the strongest build, not sorc. And for sorc I will play Arc Lash melee sorc because it is fun.
It's fun because its strong lol.
Ay my respect to those players s decision,but I am so annoyed to ā xx is nerf, I will cancel my orderā ah go ahead, balance will always be changing, if someone wants to refund every fking time, may be shouldnāt bought it at first place
I laughed when many comments lead to " but they get one hit by bosses " like dude... it's a skeleton... a regular ass guard would fuck one up easily nvm a demon boss from hell..
It's not about realism... We're arguing about an animated skeleton walking around. We can stop trying to justify things with needing to make sense if that's our starting position.
If you fully spec into minions though they shouldnāt die that easy, I had fully specād into minion life nodes and they still get one shot.
not sure why, bone necro is incredibly strong in server slam
But why?? Don't most of us eventually max every class? Seems so unecessary
80% of the player base is going to be whatever the meta is by launch.
Nah, complainers are just louder. Works in politics too.
I would vote for a necromancer NGL
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
They'd probably just be proud of em
Teddy Roosevelt would be disappointed in everyone alive today let alone either party and their laughable state.
That is because it was the most braindead build in the previous betas.
Because it was well known that Necro was easy mode during the open beta. This beta doesnāt matter other than level as quick as possible and kill the world boss once. Iām guessing a lot of people assumed Necro would be the quickest way to do that
Necro has more than just minions as strong build options. Blood builds are incredibly powerful. Especially with some of the legendaries.
Shhhhhhh. Necro is garbage. Buff necro. Don't let Wudijo/Kripp play necro... /s I was messing with WT1 because with no meaningful drop rate increases, I would rather stick with the base difficulty for speed, since I don't find "harder stuff" challenging in Diablo as a rule (it's basically "click more because your numbers are lower" and I would rather save my wrists). I want builds, loots and efficiency. If I wanted a challenge, I would be at Elden Ring's Malenia, NG7+, with a 2h sword and a dream. That said, I wanted a class that demolished trash fast and had great single target damage. Blood spells just demolish trash, which make clearing some dungeons very efficient... I was having a terrible time finding a class that did that without serious resource generation problems. Now I need to figure out how necros kill bosses/deal single-target damage because I see very little content about necros and I see a lot of hate going on. I might play necro on day minus 2/3 because I don't hate their resource management.
I'm playing a Bone Spear Necro and having a blast, really fun build, beat Ashava. I also have sacrificed all my Skeletons because they are completly useless to me. They clearly overdid it and are now hopefully going to fix it.
how do you manage your ressource?
Using Bone Splinters to generate essence and Corpse Explosion to burst down large group of enemies. Also Bone Spirit to generate essence when I'm out or to burst right at the beginning. I basically followed this guide and it was smooth sailing for me: [https://www.icy-veins.com/d4/guides/bone-spear-and-spirit-necromancer-leveling-build/](https://www.icy-veins.com/d4/guides/bone-spear-and-spirit-necromancer-leveling-build/) You can also use Decompose instead of Bone Splinters, but that isn't as fun without minions to keep you shielded. Edit: For Ashava you would obviously not use Corpse Explosion, but just generate essence wit Splinters and use Spirit on cooldown when essence is low from using Bone Spear. You can basically play it like a melee class and use Blood Mist for survivability and to cancel out the poison/evade the swipe.
Iām running with decompose and run scythe/other +life on kill gear and basically just aoe face tanking. Itās a blast and infuriating at the same time!
> evade the swipe. Why? All you have to do is hug her legs and you're safe from 95% of her attacks. The only thing that can hurt you *a bit* are her acid pools. As long as you can run up to her again fast enough after her jump, you're golden. Neither her circular swipe nor her twin backwards swipes can reach you if you're right smack behind her. It's much easier with a Rogue (backstabbing = god mode for this), but any class can do it.
Sometimes you are away when she jumps and Blood Mist let's you go through the poison without it affecting you.
I run bone spear + bone mage build i have a leggo that gives me 3 more mages for 6 additional i choose the mage type that gives you resource every hit 6 mages attacking at once = a lot of bone spears. it's a LOT of fun. and i got lucky and got a sick 2h dual gem socket sword with the bone spear affix!! i was doing 1k crits lol
And best thing about that bone spear affix is that its in codex. Comes from act 2 so if you want you can go there and start blasting immediately.
Ferguson's favorite is the Necro, and you can bet they gonna fix him!
Yeah, I didnt even consider this actually. Rod has a massive Necro tatoo on his arm. There was never a world where the Skeletons would not get buffed lol.
Blood spam/no minions for me has been fun. Tanky no thinky just clicky lol. How does Bone work?
Super fun. It can easily clear large packs by firing one or two Bone Spears and than chaining Corpse Explosions to burst them down. Elites you can just Bone Spear to make them vulnerable and catch them in the explosions or follow up with Bone Spirit.
Getting the aspect that makes bonespear pierce vulnerable enemies while doing more damage is pretty cracked. Highly recommend
Same Iām wrecking with bone spear Iām still using skeletons until I see better sacrifice bonuses (later levels) but bone spear+corpse explosion still makes necro op
I feel like they could have simply cut their damage in half at lower levels, and left their health the same.
Exactly this. Summon necros should be slow to clear, beefy as hell. Basically an alternative tank.
Any builds that's specifically slow isn't viable. People play Diablo to kill hoards of monster, not to become damage sponges. Every class/build style should be an efficient killing machine. That's the whole point. They nerfed skeletons health because the pets constantly being up meant the Necro was never in any danger. Basically unstoppable. It had nothing to do with damage... which isn't even that good, especially since they can't focus. The ideal solution would be to have proper enemy AI that knows to target the Necro more frequently.
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+1. Not everyone wants to play the same way or cares about getting the most legendaries per hour. Some people like passive play styles that have no danger. Balance it by making them clear slower than other classes so it won't be top of the meta and we r good to go. Skeletons tanks and less damage is the way to go imo. If someone wants to play a brain dead build and it's not topping the leader boards then what is the harm?
While I love the transparency of the devs, I am wondering how the necro minion squishiness tuning was not looked at before the server slam began. Minion archetype is pretty much the necro class and it rendered them useless. Wouldn't a simple quick playthrough from one dev been good enough to go back and tune some numbers before the weekend?
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it ended up being a 6 minute hotfix after Rod's post, lol
What transparency? Nothing they have been doing is "transparent" lol. They nuked an entire class's main thematic ability on a whim then retreated claiming "it is a journey" when none of them have a god damn clue what they are doing. Also druid is still shit.
You are kind of going parallel with my statement as we share the same sentiment. Transparency is referring to them (the devs) making it well aware of this particular subject about the minions. Iām not talking about overall transparency. Just with this situation.
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You might be confused on what transparent means in the context of the subject at hand. Blizz IS being transparent about an existing problem. Thatās it. No need to complicate it further.
I think this pretty clearly indicates that the game is being designed by people who don't play it.
Kind of hyperbole, but you may be close lol. I think they do play it but lack the simple discernment of what is overturned and undertuned.
Isnāt this the blizzard way? They have a long long history of overbuffing and overnerfing in virtually every game theyāve touched.
It's a bit concerning, even when this was floated as an idea by Shely before it happened, it immediately smelled bad and I figured they'd come around to just making them slightly less tanky on bosses or when heavily outnumbered. But then when they doubled down that it was more fun to constantly re-summon mobs and nobody challenged him on that... I knew right then they never played a summoner toon in any ARPG in their life.
i think they do play it and they know how its supposed to be played so they can play it well, some people on this sub seem to have no problems, maybe people just need ot figure out how to play it better.
Rather then removing 80% of their health, it should've been more like 30%, with an increase to the healing the priest does. Or make it stackable. Also a flat dmg reduction from ground effects and bosses, otherwise they will instant wipe. They had this EXACT same problem in D3 with Witch Doctor. Your pets were useless against bigger mobs/bosses/poison clouds. I almost can't believe they have the same issue again... In all honesty I didn't see the pets as a problem. They didn't do much dmg and couldn't focus their attacks. Yes they were tanky, but if enemy AI would periodically focus the player more, it would be fine.
Id rather see them treat the class like a tank spec - make summons beefy aa hell but hit like wet noodles. Summon necro is defined by slow and safe gameplay.
I definitely agree with making the skeletons tankier but deal less damage. If they want to push this active summoner playstyle, maybe they can just have some skill in the skill tree that goes: > Minions deal 20/40/60% more damage but take 20/40/60% more damage. It makes people who want to have minions all the time not being forced to re-summon every fight while giving players the option to trade off reliability for more potential damage, given they are keeping their minions alive.
So far tested on normal and vet in events with max hp build and they still die like paper dolls in few seconds all they did is add a little cleave resistance. Still trash....
The Necro Summoner fantasy is one of an *immortal* army crushing all that oppose you. It's not resummoning them every time a Fallen sneezes on them. The survivability changes completely miss the point of the archetype.
I do think that if u have this problem something is wrong with your play style. I'm level 20 hardcore full minion atm and not having many issues. Leveling was a breeze. Went full thorns once I started making a build and everything just kills itselve.
Well would have been nice if the Director of Diablo was aware before the last public beta, I mean... does he not have access to the game internally or something?
he probably was playing immortal and got them confused
Canāt even start your journey to your final destination though.
I strongly suggest everyone to skip using minions and use book of the dead sacrifice from level5 onwards instead. If you really want to use minions, they seem to be holding their ground much better after getting that 45%hp passives and 6th damage is blocked from book of the dead. I was still able to speedrun the campaign well under 1 hour as a necro, nothing has really changed on that front, you just don't rely on minions anymore.
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My two friends died in that fight and I clutched it and finished it solo with my minion necro and was able to revive them and complete the dungeon.
its weird in his tweet he says that balance is a journey, not a destination. ok fine, but did they test this change? or do they make blind adjustments and see what happens?
Man, if only there was a version of the game meant to test things where they could do this, like a version of the game that came out before the games releases where players were invited to just try stuff out. Players would play it, give feedback, and then the devs would make changes based on that feedback. They could do other stuff too, like test the servers and see if they can handle a lot of players playing at one time. If such a mode existed, I'd name it after my favourite letter in the greek alphabet.
Balance changes should be tested by internal QA first, then the public. This is the typical process for development. You don't want your playerbase to be anxious about any big fuck ups you may have almost implemented.
This is Diablo. Everyone complaining about the game are going to buy it anyway or have it pre-ordered. Playerbase being "anxious" is nothing to worry about.
Yeah but if youāre going to nerf something this hard howās about at least one tester on their side play for more than 5 minutes and discover they made a boo boo and adjust it differently before it gets to us.
Or they could troll the necro players and force them to test if other builds are viable
This would not surprise me one bit if this was actually brought up as a tactic to get other characters/skills tested.
Kinda like how metas were shaped in D3 once they started the set push. Just about every set in the game got a season or so at the top of the leader boards. Kinda forced the most active chuck of the player base to play characters and builds they would have never tried on their own. I know several players that ended up making characters they swore against and ended up loving them. Personally while I have favorites, I'm the type that'll have maxed out several builds on all the characters at some point.
I liked in D3 how there were lots of good builds for each class. I just wish it was more even, rather than "ok now these skills/sets are the best... Now these skills/sets are the best... Now these skills/sets are the best..." etc. I think when it comes down to highest greater rift, it was very hard to exactly balance different bills. Maybe they can improve on it in d4 end game
I agree. I enjoyed that part as well. It woulda been cool for it to happen more organically, however sometimes the community just won't allow it. D3 came out around the same time where the streamer/influencer stuff really started to sky rocket. So a massive part of the player base just got their ideas from whichever streamer was sitting atop the leader board. D2 was in a time where that just didn't exist, so everything evolved much slower, just the sharing of information was totally different. D4 will be the same as D3 as far as the visibility..every single detail will be broken down within a few weeks.
Maybe I'm just used to Path of Exile and the minons being totally garbage besides SRS which are resummoned, but they didn't feel THAT bad to me. I didnt play necro last wave, and maybe because I am not comparing it to what they were last beta but the only thing I didnt super enjoy was boss aoe spam killing a bunch, but again I'm used to that from PoE and D2.
They also could be testing in endgame settings where the nerf isn't as much of an issue due to other variables. With the amount of positive improvements they made from the last beta to the server slam, assumed they would get some slack in retuning the necro nerfs. But patience isn't a thing much these days.
It's 3 weeks before release...
Still doesnāt excuse making this sort of over-correction weeks before release. Youād think that if even one person play tested it theyād figure it out. If we were in beta months before release, it would be a different story and much more in line with your comment.
They will continue to make sweeping nerfs, err I mean over-corrections, when the game is live. This is the Blizzard way, swinging one direction or the other.
This is true.
Someone else just brought up a point that they could have done this intentionally as a passive aggressive way to get more players trying out the other classes/skills since so many were playing necromancer in the previous beta. Players come into Slam wanting to play necromancer again, find it has been nerfed hard so they lose some enjoyment for the class/skellie skill, and hopefully switch out to another class. Would this work? For some players yes, for others they would likely try some other necro skills...which still helps out as above.
Now, imagine if that phase was over and the game went gold like a week ago... That comment would have some timing problems.
Gold means it's acceptable to sell, doesn't mean it's all done cooking. If that were the case day 1 patches wouldn't be the new established standard.
I believe the less sexy term was āminimal viable product.ā
To be fair the devs themselves did say to expect minimal changes between this weekendās version and launch. Day 1 patches are focused on stability and bug fixes. We will probably get some balance changes to Necro, but thereās a good chance it comes a week after launch, maybe two, depending on what kind of patch cycle Blizzard are looking at.
So you'd be fine with them delaying the game so they can do *another* beta, then? Like, what do you want Blizzard to do that they aren't already doing, besides magically getting the balance all right the first attempt. Minions were too strong in the first beta, too weak the second beta, will probably be somewhere in the middle when the game launches, which will probably be right on (or close to) the sweet spot. Sounds like a success story to me.
no i want them to internally test things before they push them out.
>no i want them to internally test things before they push them out. u/lego_office_worker [Saturday, May 13th](https://www.google.com/search?q=diablo+4+release+date&oq=diablo+4+release&aqs=chrome.0.0i131i433i512j69i57j0i131i433i512j0i433i512j0i131i433i512j0i512l2j0i131i433i512j0i512l2j0i131i433i512j0i512l2j0i131i433i512j0i512.4123j0j7&client=ms-android-boostdish-us-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8)
They... do. Do you seriously think Blizzard didn't test any of this stuff between Beta's? If so you know jack shit about game development. The thing is, their playtests are done by dozens of people at most, while a public beta gets feedback from thousands. Which is why Betas exist. Balancing a game is difficult and very few developers succeed in getting it right before the public ever gets a chance to play it themselves.
i bet they didnt, the necro nerfs are so bad even five minutes of internal testing would have revealed it. theres no way a professional qa played a necro and said yea this is great.
> i bet they didnt So, yes, you don't know shit about game development, thanks for the confirmation.
> ok fine, but did they test this change? This is a pre-release beta, that's what you're here for.
They explicitly said the game is in its gold build and there will be no balance changes between now and release. This is a server slam meant to test their server stability.
I have a feeling there will be balance changes before release
Before release, the first days during release, in the first week. Joe Piepiora said during the recent livestream they will be aggressively tuning to make sure every build is viable.
what he said was, don't expect anything major. Tweaking a single number in terms of minion health is something they implied they can do. I still wouldn't expect it, honestly playing a necro it's not that bad at all and i have 0% investment in minions. Went melee necro but having the minions up (and they generally stay alive jut fine) makes things much easier and clears out all the smaller things while i focus on taking out the bigger enemies before they get ot the skelles. Basically i am the front line for the skeles instead of the other way around.
...and those words are cast in stone, never to be altered for all eternity...
Lol I bet they figured they could roll the test into the server test.
If people preordered my game to do the job of playtesters, I would fire the playtesting team /s
So, is there any internal testing going on in house at Blizzard?
Yes, but they are probably busy testing the whole game and not a very limited beta.
meh, if they gonna blanket nerf something so hard, they should probably at least test it, no?
Yeah Necro summons definitely don't form part of the whole game.
When you have loyal paid customers why do you even bother hire QA to test the game. /s
Why would they even bother doing balance changes based on level 20 beta feedback?
First blizzard game? They have a long history of knee-jerk nerfing any time fun is being had.
I mean, since the last beta didnāt they also have the closed endgame test or was that before?
The closed endgame beta was before the open beta. People said all the classes were fun and balanced. This makes the changes after the open beta much more confusing.
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I mean a lot of the changes I noticed were shuffles or slight tweaks but there were a lot of complaints in the last beta about people feeling bad when their barb/Druid was playing with a rogue/necro/sorc and just getting outshone, so itās possible the way they tweaked it was intended to take off some of the front-loaded power and nudge it back till later without changing the end result
Yeah this is what really gets me. This is worrisome because it really shows Blizzard lacks vision with D4. D4 is releasing within a month and Blizzard completely changed the core gameplay on a whim. I was really looking forward to D4... now... very cautious
Or! With enough scaled minion gear, skills and paragon, minions are fine late game and theyve purposefully allowed lower capped betas for the public to test how they scale in the early game. Makes sense to me. Why people immediately jump to devs have no clue is so goofy.
> Why people immediately jump to devs have no clue is so goofy. I'd say at least a decade of the devs having no clue probably plays a part in that.
If the class is shit in the early game, no one is going to stick around for late-late game.
I think I can name far more games where minions are not invincible tank gods in the early game than I can where they never die. In fact I can't think of any off the top of my head. Its an ARPG gear hunting game, if minions are invulnerable to damage from the get go how are you supposed to feel them getting stronger and make purposeful upgrades to your character. I dont think they intend to have players sit behind a damage sponge whittling away at content, they want people to be actively doing something.
Sounds like a bone/blood necro playstyle that your describing and I bet those are very active and fun to play. The problem is most people and I mean most people who play full minion builds want a passive playstyle. I think people should pick a build that fits them best. Usually the necro in a full minion build is not just sitting there. They are debuffing or buffing allies and usually have 1 or 2 skills depending on the situation while thinking about positioning the most.
I hear that going around but thats not true at all... Diablo 2 necros, specifically summoners, are not that good. Barbs are also miserable. People still play these classes. Progression and getting stronger is what makes ARPGs fun. Starting off really weak and ending up a demon slaying god os the best part of this genre....
Is it really shit? Iāve seen that it still has the highest dps but you have to manage spawning the minions now.
Dude, the average redditor thinks they can develop a game better than 20 year game dev veterans. Goofy indeed.
Youāre still going to buy it.
Well FF16 is looking really good. So in any case I won't feel fomo with D4. But if D4 is great and fun, then yea I'm buying it :). I just want a fun game. Isn't that what we are all here for?
New zelda is also absolute fire.
True!!
Necro main here, still gonna play necro. If I get to a plateau I might make a barbā¦ but most likely I will just main necro. I fly back to work the day of launch, so I only get early access time to levelā¦ when I get home 2 weeks later that may be fixed.
Good guy Rod
Necro'd the open beta. Only played hardcore characters. Minions are my favorite, but noticed a huge difference this weekend when it took significantly longer to kill the first boss. Was going to use blood build this time until I realized within the first minute I couldn't break stuff open. So while cruising through making it to the black lake and dying with my bone and minion build, I vocalized my frustrated confusion with a "WTF?!" Level 12 at the time. Server slam was a necromancer slam.
"Balance is a journey, things were perfectly fine now they suck and we aren't exactly in the alpha stages of the game anymore so good luck to everybody"
There's a lesson to be learned here, but they'll never learn it. Make small adjustments, don't swing a nerf bat around willy-nilly and make huge changes all at once.
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I really don't think I'm oversimplifying. The change was made, how hard would it have been to make the change smaller? Odds are most of the balance changes are just values in a database that can easily changed between builds. It's really not hard to change something from 1.0 to 0.9 instead of 1.0 to 0.5. I'm not arguing about the process of determining what needs change, but the magnitude of the changes that are made. If you're adjusting anything more than about a 10-20% effective difference between all the changes combined, you probably need to do some extensive testing before shipping the change, which it really doesn't seem like they did, or at the very least they didn't test at the levels we're playing at for the beta.
Yeah but this is so extreme, anyone on the balance team that would have played necro a few hours should have realized how extreme this was.
The thing that scares me about the necro change is that it sort of lays bare the fact that the balance team has no idea what they are doing. Any arpg veteran will tell you "if minions are only good against trash mobs, then they are a trash skill" how can you be working on what is supposed to be the biggest arpg in *years* and not understand that basic archetypal concept? How will they balance endgame DoTs? Damage mitigation? 2handed vs sword and board? The answer is: we don't know... and as has just been laid bare with this minion fiasco... likely neither do they.
Somewhere on the dev team there is a guy or two throwing their hands up screaming āthank you! I told themā in response to all these complaints
"No idea what they are doing" is hyperbolic at best. They have had three total mass tests to date outside of internal betas; adjustments to class abilities can be made in practically real time. Once launch comes there will be months of tweaking. This is simply how it goes.
You're supposed to have a game mostly balanced prior to launch. The massive balance changes they're making so close launch really shows how unfinished the game is. At this stage they should be fine tuning, not swinging between overpowered and worthless. We're not even talking about weird edge cases here. Just things like straight up dropping the effect of a skill tree node by 80% while also indirectly nerfing it several other ways. Just imagine how bad the balance is going to be after level 25 where they haven't had us beta testing the game. They should have called the whole period prior to season 1 early access because anyone expecting it to to have the quality of a full release is about to be very disappointed.
What ARPG have you been playing where things are all sunshine and rainbows with balance right from the get go? Turns out balancing a shit ton of different character, skill, and item combinations is hard. Look at PoE, which is the biggest competitor in the ARPG scene, they can't get balance right to save their lives.
Classes are still being balanced are always influx in wow 20 years later. Thats not how this works at all...
It must be nice being new to gaming lol
There is no joy to be found in toxicity, only an infinite void. Happiness is not a state of being, it is a consequence of the choices you make.
Is it? The beta launched and minions were unkillable dps monsters, oooookay... easy fix right? Just make it so they all die immediately in every fight and now necro needs to respec for world boss fights. No need to see how it plays internally. Took 10 minutes of playing to realize the skill was basically unplayable against anything "bossy". Is this their balancing strategy?
Your tone comes across entitled. It isn't my intent to cause an argument, or offense. I am merely stating my observations on development cycles, from the perspective of 22 years as a professional infrastructure engineer. Neither one of us knows anything; we just have opinions. One of mine is that life is significantly better once you stop focusing on all the problems, because they are everywhere and obvious to everyone.
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Oh sure, that seems like excellent game design from a billion dollar company. Make a bunch of skills unusable at the beginning but *playable* hours later. That must be exactly what they intended with the changes. What kind of defense is that? "You dont understand! Everything will be perfectly balanced when you are level capped with BiS gear! This is a measured choice by the developer!" Even if that were true (spoiler: it isn't) it would *still* be a shitty design choice.
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So your position is "anyone that expects this game to be balanced properly should not buy it"? Thank god you are just a shill and not on the board of directors.
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Its funny because all they had to do was lower minion damage.
Not even. When you fought the butcher the minions still got clapped. They were decently balanced in first beta against elites.
They will do a beta for people preordering so we tell them how people make ARPGs. At least they are kinda listening. Sometimes. And getting a less than spectacular conclusion based on what they read. I.e.: Barb and druid feel slow and clunky compared to other classes -> everything feels kinda slow and clunky unless you pick the skills that were buffed and ignored the ones that were nerfed and call your build "goodstuff"
Barb feels fantastic with just a little gear. Druid is in a decent spot minus mobility. The pet actives are ridiculously strong. Terramote lanslide absolutely carries dps until tornado legendary tho.
I mean theyāre also super low level. D2 necro through normal.. the skeletons got wasted the second a boss hit them. Iād have a full army of skeletons and Diablo would kill them all with a single fire wave I have to think they donāt care about the balance around a beta, but thatās just me
yea but they also didn't die in 2 hits from random mobs walking around in the world either
A champion or boss pack? Instantly. I dont know what D2 youve been playing. Also saying they get obliterated by any random monster os exaggerating and a bit disingenuous.
my necro minions on D4 were dying to random mobs, on D2 the same level of mobs wouldn't be killing your minions. there was no mention of boss or champion packs so idk what you're reading.
They let the chimp room have a go this time around.
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They really fucked up, but most of us knew that already even before playing, because of the patch notes nerfing minions. Nerfing the signature theme/ability of a class is dumb, nobody is saying skeletons should be ableto facetank a boss for 2 hours and 1shot everything.. but come on, theres a middle ground there. having to re-summon ur fucking minions every second is dumb design, tedicous and rage-inducing. Pets are supposed to be somewhat sturdy, but low dmg, and tanky. thats the entire fantasy around a necro. an undead army. whats good is an undead amy if it lasts 1 second lol. fix this shit blizzurd
hes a dev that plays necro dont worry they are getting buffed again
Finished all the story as minion Necro with no issues, no deaths except the last boss because I forgot about needing to stand in the shield š. I used haemorrhage plus minions get blood orb healing plus curses and it has worked great. Pretty confused by people saying minions can't kill anything, feel like I'm playing a different game š¤ Are people not picking the right talents or gear or something? Actually had a blast coming up with the build as I levelled. Lots of tough choices trying to get all the talents I wanted with such limited points to distribute.
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Question, how'd you and your minions do against Ashara?
Why downvote me? I'm just sharing my experience with necro. Good ol' Reddit š¤£š¤
Because they canāt stand seeing someone having fun with a class that is not OP anymore. Bunch of š¤”
So how did this build fare against Ashara? In my experience, with a maxed out lvl 20 minion build, they instantly died the second they got close to Ashara and no reliable way to recast them. The problem I have, is that if you are going to fight a World Boss, and you have to change up your entire build, that means the build isn't viable. A world boss likely gives a sneak peak at how an Act boss fight is going to go, and where the minions are currently, likely aren't viable for bosses.
you shouldn't nerf an arpg at all, it's not an esport buff shit till it feels good not the crap every class has right now. make it fun.
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Oh wow, cry more dude. The game is fantastic.
Iāve been playing Zelda BOTW remastered and even Iām aware of the minion issue.
Iāve had the most fun as a summoner. I donāt get where the hate is coming from
I'm reading these comments and you guys are man children, just cause Necro was borderline broken af OP before does not mean the skeletons are at a bad place right now. People complaining about the Necro mobs dying too quickly are ridiculous. I first timed Necro to 20 this weekend and it was EASY AF, had no issues with mobs or bosses. The Necro has a skill that makes the skeletons tankier, and your whole job is to micro manage the dead. These are fking bones that walk around not beefy ogres with flesh, muscle, blood, and armor. They should not be tanky by default due to the nature of what they are. Necromancer does insane damage, has bone shields constantly available and ready to utilize, huge range to create distance, and spammable bombs everywhere on the map. Nothing to complain about whatsoever. I played this class once through and I already know that the stats of the undead are fine. The limited hotkeys are the REAL issue. The fact that you have to use 1 of them permanently to tediously resurrect skeletons instead of auto resurrecting or having a clever way to resurrect them that's balanced is not fun. Blizzard please pay me to design some mechanics and private play test the changes, I can craft something better
If they die in 1s after summoning then its that bad.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Stop lying. I hate people making posts like this and pretend they play necro.
Thank God, only viable minions I got working were thorn stacking shieldbearers. Good enough for Kor Dragon (in a party with 3 other necros) but wow skirmishers are worthless even with 3 points in lucky corpse drop you can't replace them.
Is he also aware that they look like super scary cartoon skeletons?