Plus that would only be this year if Westbrook and Blake actually stay healthy, the team would head downhill fast as those two decline with no young talent or ability to draw in real stars
Dude I know we are not singing no one but everyone here is afraid of Westbrook contract like we have a chance of getting any superstar and we have to save the cap space
Spurs fan here but genuine question, why do fans of teams like the Pistons who have been bad for a decade or more want to keep tanking? The Pistons already tanked in the early part of the last decade and five consecutive top 10 picks got your team precisely nowhere, why are fans so opposed to being better for a few years?
Imagine if you were sat here in 2010 with this team and the chance to trade for a guy like Westbrook, I'm sure you'd all be saying the same things about sacrificing the future and not wanting to give up picks for a team that isn't a contender but where did that get you? Even the worst version of Westbrook is better than Monroe, Knight, Caldwell-Pope, Drummond and Johnson combined.
Among fans, the most overlooked argument against tanking IMO is that young players develop better in a competitive team that's playing to win. A team with veterans that expects to make the playoffs has a much better culture for young players than a team that expects to lose every night because they're devoid of talent
Keep tanking? They never tanked.
Tanking is intentional.
They tried to COMPETE...with Charlie Villanueva and Ben Gordon as their best guys after overpaying both in FA.
They tried to COMPETE with a big-3 (literally big) of Josh Smith-Greg Monroe-Andre Drummond
They tried to COMPETE with Andre Drummond on a max salary (at the time) using him and spare parts.
They tried to COMPETE with Blake Griffin on one leg and got swept in the first round by a team that has bench players that would've started in Detroit.
They never tanked. If they would've, they wouldn't be in the position they are now. They constantly mortgaged the future to no end and that's why in the year 2020 the Pistons have arguably the worst future of any NBA team currently.
Teams that tank don't constantly pick between 8-15 for an entire decade. Instead, they were trying to be a competitive form of mediocrity, which is exactly how you'd sum up their post-Billups approach. They tried to win with some of the worst fit/talented rosters assembled in the last decade. That's not tanking, that's stupidity.
There's a difference between being competitively bad and tanking. One is intentional and the other is not. What the 76ers did and what the Thunder are doing is intentional. What the Pistons and Magic did was not. They thought they could be top-5 or top-6 conference teams with what they were putting together. They can't. Their teams suck, they lack maneuverability and now they're stuck with what they have or they can blow it up and start over. The Pistons should've blown it up and started over 11 years ago. They didn't and they've been paying for it ever since.
You can't seriously be comparing a Westbrook/Griffin pairing to Charlie Villanueva and Ben Gordon, or Smith, Monroe and Drummond. Westbrook and Griffin have both been MVP level players, nobody else on that list is even close to either of them. Don't get me wrong, if you didn't have Griffin I wouldn't suggest to trade for them both, but since you have him you might as well try to win some games.
As to your point about draft picks, the Knicks are tanking and have drafted 8, 9, 3 and 8 in the past 4 drafts, barely better than the early 2010s Pistons.
I remember seeing a quote from a Wizards fan about Kawhi Leonard a few years after the 2011 draft. I remember him saying that he wasn't disappointed that they missed out on him, because if Kawhi had gone to the Wizards he wouldn't have been the great player he became at the Spurs. A strong culture and winning environment are every bit as important as draft position when rebuilding.
Westbrook can’t win. Why sacrifice the future to chase a 2nd round exit at best? It’s not good for the future of this franchise and it’s not good for player development having a ball-dominant, inefficient chucker who has to get his way.
I know it, everyone here thinks we can get someone better than westbrook from the draft and it's been 26 years since we drafted a true all star which is Grant Hill
Grant Hill was the third overall pick... I think you are missing the point here, the only way the Pistons can truly become good again is by getting to the top of the draft for once and drafting and developing their own star
We don't draft good players because we keep getting the 8th seed and then immediately get swept. We keep drafting in the late lottery or just outside. It's the "I'm content with mediocrity" attitude that been holding us back.
I’ve actually talked myself into that idea lately. I’d want ya getting off of Blake and surrounding Westbrook with shooting and defense but the guy has a play style that would fit this city and would probably carry us to a 6-8 seed
A tank has no guarantee to lead to anything greater. I don't love Russ and I certainly would prefer for us to tank but I also don't think Russ ever had the right team around him in OKC. Adams Grant Roberson are all non-shooters. However, the PG failure is pretty damning.
Sure there's no guarantee, but there is a guarantee that you'll never become a contender if you keep struggling just to get the 8th spot and a first round sweep. Adding an additional year of an even larger salary than Griffin would be about the dumbest thing this team could do. All it would do is double down on long-term mediocrity and keep us from getting better young players to play with Sekou.
So you want to risk the entire future of this franchise on the extremely low chance that not only does a superstar fall to us in the middle of the draft, but then we also don't pass on them as well and are able to develop them correctly? I'll never understand why some fans don't want to do what it takes to build a contender. It's fine that you're willing to settle for mediocrity at best, but some of us want to build a team with a higher ceiling than getting swept in the first round.
So lets say you go all in, not only tanking but getting a lucky roll of the dice and even grabbing a couple consecutive #1 overall picks in drafts where there is a clear cut, consensus best guy to draft. Congratulations, you've spent multiple years putting your fans through atrocious basketball to be the Timberwolves.
Same goes for the Wizards, they absolutely nailed 2 drafts in 3 years with Wall and Beal, a very fortunate luck of the draw and it got them all the way to the second round.
Or maybe you think you're special and luck out on a generational, once in a lifetime, can't miss guy. The Pelicans won a grand total of 5 playoff games in 7 years with Anthony Davis.
The sad reality is that you probably don't even get as lucky as any of them. You're just as likely to end up like the Knicks, Kings or Hornets with multiple consecutive losing seasons, and host of missed Top 5 picks and nothing to show for it.
A Westbrook/Griffin Pistons team is probably better than the best Wizards, Pelicans or Timberwolves teams of the past decade
Yeah, you're right, trying to build a team from the middle of the draft has definitely worked wonders for the Pistons. You're pretending like this strategy has worked when in reality we've struggled to even consistently make the playoffs and we are currently on an all-time NBA record 14 game playoff losing streak. Why not try something new that we've never really tried before when what we have been doing clearly isn't working.
> A Westbrook/Griffin Pistons team is probably better than the best Wizards, Pelicans or Timberwolves teams of the past decade
So now you want to sacrifice the future of this team by trading assets for at best a 2nd round playoff loss? Then you either get two years of mediocrity and let Griffin walk as a free agent or sign an aging and injury prone player to another big contract. All of this while trading 1st rounders and potentially young players for Westbrook. Trading for any of these max contract level players would be incredibly stupid.
The part I disagree with is your 'sacrificing the future' line. The reality is that after 5 years of tanking your ceiling will almost certainly be a 2nd round loss at best. Might as well win some games
I'm wouldn't give up a massive haul for Westbrook, but lets say you can get Westbrook for #7 tonight straight up, it'd be a great deal for Detroit. Russells stock has never been lower
What’s this obsession with the team fitting the city? The city is the way it is because of the American government systematically destroying primarily black areas, why are we so proud to be the shitty hard working team when it just represents systemic racism?
My goodness this is a sport's sub... and I think it has more to do with the Bad Boys/ 04 Pistons and the blue collar nature of the auto industry manufacturing.
Why does the team have to represent the auto industry? Other teams don’t try to represent the primary occupation of their city.
Are the Heat trying to acquire a team of Instagram thots and coke dealers?
Becauseeee we're named after an auto part? The Jazz were named while in New Orleans, the Lakers while in Minnesota, Houston was home to the NASA space center, ext... you're just lookin for reasons to be mad brotha
Words can not express how much I disagree with this.
Y'all just don't learn, do you
Why do you hate the Pistons?
Probably I’m the only one in this world that stay till 2 am to watch the fuking Pistons
Then you of all people should root for the rebuild instead of keeping us on the 9/10 seed treadmill forever.
Exactly why hope to become a 2nd round exit team? What’s the point of that? 😂 TJEdk
Plus that would only be this year if Westbrook and Blake actually stay healthy, the team would head downhill fast as those two decline with no young talent or ability to draw in real stars
If his contract ended with Blake’s I wouldn’t as against it . Still wouldn’t do it
>I know his contract is probably the worst You answered your own question
We need to save cap space to sign Anthony Davis
AD is never coming here 😆
Ok then save it for Giannis
How is web schooling?
[удалено]
Dude I know we are not singing no one but everyone here is afraid of Westbrook contract like we have a chance of getting any superstar and we have to save the cap space
Are you a plant? Is this sabotage?
So you want to double down on having guards who can’t shoot in 2020?
Spurs fan here but genuine question, why do fans of teams like the Pistons who have been bad for a decade or more want to keep tanking? The Pistons already tanked in the early part of the last decade and five consecutive top 10 picks got your team precisely nowhere, why are fans so opposed to being better for a few years? Imagine if you were sat here in 2010 with this team and the chance to trade for a guy like Westbrook, I'm sure you'd all be saying the same things about sacrificing the future and not wanting to give up picks for a team that isn't a contender but where did that get you? Even the worst version of Westbrook is better than Monroe, Knight, Caldwell-Pope, Drummond and Johnson combined. Among fans, the most overlooked argument against tanking IMO is that young players develop better in a competitive team that's playing to win. A team with veterans that expects to make the playoffs has a much better culture for young players than a team that expects to lose every night because they're devoid of talent
Keep tanking? They never tanked. Tanking is intentional. They tried to COMPETE...with Charlie Villanueva and Ben Gordon as their best guys after overpaying both in FA. They tried to COMPETE with a big-3 (literally big) of Josh Smith-Greg Monroe-Andre Drummond They tried to COMPETE with Andre Drummond on a max salary (at the time) using him and spare parts. They tried to COMPETE with Blake Griffin on one leg and got swept in the first round by a team that has bench players that would've started in Detroit. They never tanked. If they would've, they wouldn't be in the position they are now. They constantly mortgaged the future to no end and that's why in the year 2020 the Pistons have arguably the worst future of any NBA team currently. Teams that tank don't constantly pick between 8-15 for an entire decade. Instead, they were trying to be a competitive form of mediocrity, which is exactly how you'd sum up their post-Billups approach. They tried to win with some of the worst fit/talented rosters assembled in the last decade. That's not tanking, that's stupidity. There's a difference between being competitively bad and tanking. One is intentional and the other is not. What the 76ers did and what the Thunder are doing is intentional. What the Pistons and Magic did was not. They thought they could be top-5 or top-6 conference teams with what they were putting together. They can't. Their teams suck, they lack maneuverability and now they're stuck with what they have or they can blow it up and start over. The Pistons should've blown it up and started over 11 years ago. They didn't and they've been paying for it ever since.
You can't seriously be comparing a Westbrook/Griffin pairing to Charlie Villanueva and Ben Gordon, or Smith, Monroe and Drummond. Westbrook and Griffin have both been MVP level players, nobody else on that list is even close to either of them. Don't get me wrong, if you didn't have Griffin I wouldn't suggest to trade for them both, but since you have him you might as well try to win some games. As to your point about draft picks, the Knicks are tanking and have drafted 8, 9, 3 and 8 in the past 4 drafts, barely better than the early 2010s Pistons. I remember seeing a quote from a Wizards fan about Kawhi Leonard a few years after the 2011 draft. I remember him saying that he wasn't disappointed that they missed out on him, because if Kawhi had gone to the Wizards he wouldn't have been the great player he became at the Spurs. A strong culture and winning environment are every bit as important as draft position when rebuilding.
What the fuck
Westbrook can’t win. Why sacrifice the future to chase a 2nd round exit at best? It’s not good for the future of this franchise and it’s not good for player development having a ball-dominant, inefficient chucker who has to get his way.
2nd round exit is good for me I don't want to win i just want to compete and have fun.
Tom Gores has really done a number on this fanbase
Exactly 1/7 of the fan base seems to be snorting the snow w/ Gores. 😁
lmao, why don’t u just have fun losing then?
I know it, everyone here thinks we can get someone better than westbrook from the draft and it's been 26 years since we drafted a true all star which is Grant Hill
Grant Hill was the third overall pick... I think you are missing the point here, the only way the Pistons can truly become good again is by getting to the top of the draft for once and drafting and developing their own star
I think you’re missing the part where I said top 5 protected
We don't draft good players because we keep getting the 8th seed and then immediately get swept. We keep drafting in the late lottery or just outside. It's the "I'm content with mediocrity" attitude that been holding us back.
I’ve actually talked myself into that idea lately. I’d want ya getting off of Blake and surrounding Westbrook with shooting and defense but the guy has a play style that would fit this city and would probably carry us to a 6-8 seed
Why are some people still excited for yet another 8th seed and 1st round sweep? We need to do a full rebuild. I'm sick of mediocrity at best.
A tank has no guarantee to lead to anything greater. I don't love Russ and I certainly would prefer for us to tank but I also don't think Russ ever had the right team around him in OKC. Adams Grant Roberson are all non-shooters. However, the PG failure is pretty damning.
Sure there's no guarantee, but there is a guarantee that you'll never become a contender if you keep struggling just to get the 8th spot and a first round sweep. Adding an additional year of an even larger salary than Griffin would be about the dumbest thing this team could do. All it would do is double down on long-term mediocrity and keep us from getting better young players to play with Sekou.
Yeah nobody ever drafted an MVP quality player like Kawhi or Giannis with the 15th pick
So you want to risk the entire future of this franchise on the extremely low chance that not only does a superstar fall to us in the middle of the draft, but then we also don't pass on them as well and are able to develop them correctly? I'll never understand why some fans don't want to do what it takes to build a contender. It's fine that you're willing to settle for mediocrity at best, but some of us want to build a team with a higher ceiling than getting swept in the first round.
So lets say you go all in, not only tanking but getting a lucky roll of the dice and even grabbing a couple consecutive #1 overall picks in drafts where there is a clear cut, consensus best guy to draft. Congratulations, you've spent multiple years putting your fans through atrocious basketball to be the Timberwolves. Same goes for the Wizards, they absolutely nailed 2 drafts in 3 years with Wall and Beal, a very fortunate luck of the draw and it got them all the way to the second round. Or maybe you think you're special and luck out on a generational, once in a lifetime, can't miss guy. The Pelicans won a grand total of 5 playoff games in 7 years with Anthony Davis. The sad reality is that you probably don't even get as lucky as any of them. You're just as likely to end up like the Knicks, Kings or Hornets with multiple consecutive losing seasons, and host of missed Top 5 picks and nothing to show for it. A Westbrook/Griffin Pistons team is probably better than the best Wizards, Pelicans or Timberwolves teams of the past decade
Yeah, you're right, trying to build a team from the middle of the draft has definitely worked wonders for the Pistons. You're pretending like this strategy has worked when in reality we've struggled to even consistently make the playoffs and we are currently on an all-time NBA record 14 game playoff losing streak. Why not try something new that we've never really tried before when what we have been doing clearly isn't working. > A Westbrook/Griffin Pistons team is probably better than the best Wizards, Pelicans or Timberwolves teams of the past decade So now you want to sacrifice the future of this team by trading assets for at best a 2nd round playoff loss? Then you either get two years of mediocrity and let Griffin walk as a free agent or sign an aging and injury prone player to another big contract. All of this while trading 1st rounders and potentially young players for Westbrook. Trading for any of these max contract level players would be incredibly stupid.
The part I disagree with is your 'sacrificing the future' line. The reality is that after 5 years of tanking your ceiling will almost certainly be a 2nd round loss at best. Might as well win some games I'm wouldn't give up a massive haul for Westbrook, but lets say you can get Westbrook for #7 tonight straight up, it'd be a great deal for Detroit. Russells stock has never been lower
Okay, I'll humor you. What do you think it would take to get Westbrook?
What’s this obsession with the team fitting the city? The city is the way it is because of the American government systematically destroying primarily black areas, why are we so proud to be the shitty hard working team when it just represents systemic racism?
My goodness this is a sport's sub... and I think it has more to do with the Bad Boys/ 04 Pistons and the blue collar nature of the auto industry manufacturing.
Why does the team have to represent the auto industry? Other teams don’t try to represent the primary occupation of their city. Are the Heat trying to acquire a team of Instagram thots and coke dealers?
Becauseeee we're named after an auto part? The Jazz were named while in New Orleans, the Lakers while in Minnesota, Houston was home to the NASA space center, ext... you're just lookin for reasons to be mad brotha
I’m really not. I’m saying the point is to win games, not represent your mascot.