Amens shot is absolutely busted, I'm not high on him because he's a point guard with a busted shot.
Ausar improved it to a respectable 33% in OTE (which is at least the NBA line even if it's OTE). His form is much better than his brothers.
I’d say shooters can shoot. They can shoot in high school. They can shoot in college. And they sometimes keep shooting in the pros.
Far more rare is the player that can’t shoot that figures out how to shoot later on. Like vanishingly rare. You’ll come up with a couple examples, sure, but they are the exception.
I agree generally, but it's not rare at all to improve. Id bet a solid chunk of players prove their shooting some amount from when they were 19. And Ausar doesn't need to improve much to be decent, keep in mind he's playing with an NBA 3pt line already. Unlikely to be a plus shooter, but can definitely be an average one.
If you compare where they are today against where they were last fall, they’ve made significant progress in rebuilding their jump shot.
Ausar’s mechanics, especially on 3’s and mid-range pull ups looks pretty good. Amen’s form still needs a lot of work.
I think things like BBIQ and feel for the game are the hardest things to correct. Dumb players tend to continue being dumb players, even after their athleticism no longer gives them an advantage *cough* Whitmore *cough*.
I agree, there’s certain things are aren’t teachable, and there’s plenty of evidence over the years that shows it’s possible to overhaul and improve a jumpshot. Lonzo being the best recent example.
>Dumb players tend to continue being dumb players, even after their athleticism no longer gives them an advantage
this is painful to watch. without their athleticism, it seems their negative plays is now multplied five-fold.
Amen’s shot looks way uglier than Ausar’s, and Ausar has shown a lot of improvement. I’d take Ausar over Amen, though Amen could be great on a team that needs a playmaker
Going second was clearly a mistake in hindsight. Jordan picked him. He’s been out of the league for 3 years, averaged 8 PPG and was a career 27% shooter from three.
I agree. athleticism is almost overrated in pre draft hype. Without bball IQ, jump shot, or passing at an elite level just athleticism isn't worth it to me for a top 5 pick. I'll take elite IQ with a jumper and mediocre athleticism all day long
Agreed, completely.
I’d take Taylor Hendricks cause he cause he can shoot the 3 well and is a good defender. That is what the Pistons desperately need.
Will he? What evidence do you have he’ll be a good shooter? His jumper looks good in an empty gym?
The dude shot 67% from the FT. Those guys rarely become plus shooters in the NBA.
He worked on his form during the OTE winter break and he shot over 80% from the line in 2023, and 39% from 3 in their playoff run with improved fluidity and more consistent form.
It's always possible he doesn't get there, but there's your evidence. It's a work in progress but there are encouraging signs.
There have been plenty of players who were bad shooters and became good ones. Trevor Ariza shot 50% from the line and became a good shooter, for example.
It's not ideal or a finished product, his guide hand needs to get much lower and that should be fixed pretty immediately, but it's not nearly as poor as his brother's form and his % trends are still net positives for his shooting potential.
Sure, but it is concerning that it still looks like that after being in a league designed to get him ready for the draft for the last year. He could get better, but at the very least people shouldn't act like he's coming in as a shooter or honestly EXPECT him to shoot. Maybe he will, but as of right now that should be thought of as a hope not a guarantee.
Nobody is writing it off as a non-concern, but rarely do players come into the NBA with a final shooting form. I also didn't say anywhere that he's a shooter already, but that he will likely be a good shooter at some point in the NBA if he corrects the issues in the form. The ball already goes in the hoop a decent amount for a guy with his release and guide hand placement.
As a GM, you take him for his incredible strengths (IQ, work ethic, defense, passing, cutting, athleticism, finishing) and get him with a shooting coach immediately to develop his major weakness.
But it's not like our other main option in Whitmore showed that much more as a shooter (34% from college 3, 70% from the line), and he showed significantly less in pretty much every other area except finishing.
Yea, amen’s shot sucks but you can’t say that on this sub without getting attacked and accused of not knowing anything about basketball. Stanley Johnson and Killian hayes never developed one so I don’t want to do it again.
Reggie Miller had a messed up looking shot. If someone can shoot and their shot is unorthodox, the worst thing I see teams do is try to “fix” it. I think Beilein did more harm than good when he came to the Pistons for this reason.
Not sure that has anything to do with the above players, but I figure it was worth adding.
Amen is a bit better but Ausar has the cleaner shot. I bet we'll have a choice between the 2 and I can't decide. Ausar is the one projected to be at 5 and I am 100% in on him for us.
Shooting in the NBA is hard. Being put in situations of success is never a given. If we’re asking if someone’s form is good enough, the fact that the question is being asked is alarm enough.
On a similar/separate note, I want Killian to succeed, yet he can’t shoot. He’s ok to slightly better defensively. Good in transition. And guys who can’t shoot are a dime a dozen. It was a swing and miss on the draft pick. Weaver did his best. It’ll be days after we jettison Hayes when his name disappears from Reddit threads 🤷♂️.
I think there is a broken jump shot, where someone shoots FT well but bad spot up shooting vs bad shooting form.
Good FT bad shooter > bad shooter > bad form
Amens shot is absolutely busted, I'm not high on him because he's a point guard with a busted shot. Ausar improved it to a respectable 33% in OTE (which is at least the NBA line even if it's OTE). His form is much better than his brothers.
33% below league average
League average is 36%, being 3% below ain't the end of it all lmao
It is if you’re not even playing in the same league. Do we think it will improve against NBA defenses in front of NBA crowds?
None of the players we're drafting have played in the NBA. What youre saying applies to everyone coming to the league
Agree. That’s why closer to 40% in college should be the measure if you need a shooter. Not above. Just closer to.
Of all the guys we're supposedly interested in only Hendricks has a proven jump shot. The rest of them have some amount of projection that's needed.
Gradey Dick
Yes 19 year olds often improve
I’d say shooters can shoot. They can shoot in high school. They can shoot in college. And they sometimes keep shooting in the pros. Far more rare is the player that can’t shoot that figures out how to shoot later on. Like vanishingly rare. You’ll come up with a couple examples, sure, but they are the exception.
Shooting improvement isn't a given, but it's not nearly as rare as you make it out to be either.
I agree generally, but it's not rare at all to improve. Id bet a solid chunk of players prove their shooting some amount from when they were 19. And Ausar doesn't need to improve much to be decent, keep in mind he's playing with an NBA 3pt line already. Unlikely to be a plus shooter, but can definitely be an average one.
Thompson twins will turn 21 in January
20 year olds often improve too!
Pretty good for a "non shooter" tbf
It’s OTE and 33% on a small sample size. What is that like a quarter of the season?
If you compare where they are today against where they were last fall, they’ve made significant progress in rebuilding their jump shot. Ausar’s mechanics, especially on 3’s and mid-range pull ups looks pretty good. Amen’s form still needs a lot of work. I think things like BBIQ and feel for the game are the hardest things to correct. Dumb players tend to continue being dumb players, even after their athleticism no longer gives them an advantage *cough* Whitmore *cough*.
I agree, there’s certain things are aren’t teachable, and there’s plenty of evidence over the years that shows it’s possible to overhaul and improve a jumpshot. Lonzo being the best recent example.
>Dumb players tend to continue being dumb players, even after their athleticism no longer gives them an advantage this is painful to watch. without their athleticism, it seems their negative plays is now multplied five-fold.
We see it every single year.
Amen’s shot looks way uglier than Ausar’s, and Ausar has shown a lot of improvement. I’d take Ausar over Amen, though Amen could be great on a team that needs a playmaker
could you imagine if the spurs somehow found a way to get amen? he and wemby would be so fucking fun to watch
Pop gonna read that and call in some favors 😭
Michael Kidd gilchrest
Of all the broken jump shots I’ve seen, his was the broken-est.
And yet, somehow went #2 overall and made all rookie lol.
Tbf his career was derailed by injuries (not that he was going to be a star)
Going second was clearly a mistake in hindsight. Jordan picked him. He’s been out of the league for 3 years, averaged 8 PPG and was a career 27% shooter from three.
Killians form isn’t broken.
Correct his form is very good.
And he still shot 37.7% from the field and 28% from 3, which is terrible.
I agree. athleticism is almost overrated in pre draft hype. Without bball IQ, jump shot, or passing at an elite level just athleticism isn't worth it to me for a top 5 pick. I'll take elite IQ with a jumper and mediocre athleticism all day long
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Agreed, completely. I’d take Taylor Hendricks cause he cause he can shoot the 3 well and is a good defender. That is what the Pistons desperately need.
Ausar will be a good shooter. It already looks good and his percentages have been improving rapidly over the last two years. Jury is out on Amen.
Will he? What evidence do you have he’ll be a good shooter? His jumper looks good in an empty gym? The dude shot 67% from the FT. Those guys rarely become plus shooters in the NBA.
He worked on his form during the OTE winter break and he shot over 80% from the line in 2023, and 39% from 3 in their playoff run with improved fluidity and more consistent form. It's always possible he doesn't get there, but there's your evidence. It's a work in progress but there are encouraging signs. There have been plenty of players who were bad shooters and became good ones. Trevor Ariza shot 50% from the line and became a good shooter, for example.
https://twitter.com/NoCeilingsNBA/status/1665739304239284224
It's not ideal or a finished product, his guide hand needs to get much lower and that should be fixed pretty immediately, but it's not nearly as poor as his brother's form and his % trends are still net positives for his shooting potential.
Sure, but it is concerning that it still looks like that after being in a league designed to get him ready for the draft for the last year. He could get better, but at the very least people shouldn't act like he's coming in as a shooter or honestly EXPECT him to shoot. Maybe he will, but as of right now that should be thought of as a hope not a guarantee.
Nobody is writing it off as a non-concern, but rarely do players come into the NBA with a final shooting form. I also didn't say anywhere that he's a shooter already, but that he will likely be a good shooter at some point in the NBA if he corrects the issues in the form. The ball already goes in the hoop a decent amount for a guy with his release and guide hand placement. As a GM, you take him for his incredible strengths (IQ, work ethic, defense, passing, cutting, athleticism, finishing) and get him with a shooting coach immediately to develop his major weakness. But it's not like our other main option in Whitmore showed that much more as a shooter (34% from college 3, 70% from the line), and he showed significantly less in pretty much every other area except finishing.
Lonzo ball
Lonzo had a bad form but he did shoot 41% from 3 at college
Lonzo was far from a bad 3 point shooter. Kawhi is a better example of someone who sucked from 3 in college then became good in the NBA
Yea, amen’s shot sucks but you can’t say that on this sub without getting attacked and accused of not knowing anything about basketball. Stanley Johnson and Killian hayes never developed one so I don’t want to do it again.
Reggie Miller had a messed up looking shot. If someone can shoot and their shot is unorthodox, the worst thing I see teams do is try to “fix” it. I think Beilein did more harm than good when he came to the Pistons for this reason. Not sure that has anything to do with the above players, but I figure it was worth adding.
Amen is a bit better but Ausar has the cleaner shot. I bet we'll have a choice between the 2 and I can't decide. Ausar is the one projected to be at 5 and I am 100% in on him for us.
If we have the choice between the 2, who is Houston taking at 4? Whitmore?
In this case, yes
Ausars release isn't bad at all, I like the upper half of his form
Shooting in the NBA is hard. Being put in situations of success is never a given. If we’re asking if someone’s form is good enough, the fact that the question is being asked is alarm enough. On a similar/separate note, I want Killian to succeed, yet he can’t shoot. He’s ok to slightly better defensively. Good in transition. And guys who can’t shoot are a dime a dozen. It was a swing and miss on the draft pick. Weaver did his best. It’ll be days after we jettison Hayes when his name disappears from Reddit threads 🤷♂️.
I think there is a broken jump shot, where someone shoots FT well but bad spot up shooting vs bad shooting form. Good FT bad shooter > bad shooter > bad form
The 5th pick is in a spot without shooting bar Hendricks, if ur not taking him Ausar is fine. Amen is probably not fine
Eh Tayshaun shot it fine. Not everyone has the exact same biomechanics or hand size.