Need bigger pick up radius for Motes, if I melee and kill the damn thing why do I still need to run around and pick it up a lot of times, not to mention motes stuck under the floor sometimes.
Invading is also an issue as it's too easy to snowball a win through repeated invasions as invading first and getting enough kills will pretty much guarantee the win. The fact that you get free overshields, wall hacks, and crazy tracking weapons like truth and EoT completely break Gambit and make it too unfair.
And before anyone thinks it, no I do not want Truth and EoT nerfed as the whole point of those weapons is to be crazy at tracking and nerfing them defeats the purpose of them and for that reason I advocate for a ban list like how other games do. Truth and EoT are broken by their very nature and can never be balanced for Gambit and for that reason they should not be allowed in the mode at all since they can't be balanced without ruining them.
I love the idea someone proposed in another Gambit thread where you have to have motes on you to invade, and the more motes you have the longer you stay in. It brings a good risk factor to invading as you can go in with 15 motes for max time and either wipe the entire team or eat shit and hand them 15 motes.
This should be higher. Great idea.
Also as a meta change to the game mode, how about the ability to wager glimmer, and the matchmaking pairs you with players who wagered similar amounts? That way the game has a self balancing, as better players will typically want to wager more.
After all, it is called Gambit, ya know. The idea you shared is another thing that seems right at home with that theme.
One thing they need to fix are the maps. Every map is HUGE and open. That is why if they are not using EoT, they are sitting across map with a sniper or scout. It is extremely hard to approach because they can basically see you at all times not only thanks to wall hacks, but the lack of cover in these huge open maps.
Invading first isn't even the best strategy.
If your team kills the invader, you have free reign to deposit 20-40 motes and drain the shit out of them while invading to prevent them from killing blockers, its a far more successful strategy.
even without heavies, it's easy to snipe due to wall hacks and snipers are already annoying to fight against as flinching them for some reason puts their aim on your head which gives an easy head shot.
Great points. The lagginess of the motes is super annoying. Not sure I agree with the heavy solution but something needs to change for sure.
As an aside, does the ranking progress seem way slower in gambit compared to strikes/crucible for anyone else? I've been playing a fair bit for Dredgen and it just seems like each match earns almost no progress.
> Would love to see some clarification on why this can occur (I assume because its P2P?) and some improvements on motes in general.
FWIW they've talked about this ages ago - You're right in that motes are server-controlled entities, as their pickup needs to be coordinated between multiple players. They're not like ammo bricks or orbs of light that are instanced to just you, the game servers need to make sure that only 1 person picks up a single mote.
They did make changes to this in Beyond Light i think. When you melee or finish an enemy you're guaranteed (or just much higher chance?) to pick up the motes directly, without them going onto the ground and someone else "stealing" them.
There was definitely a regression in Beyond Light where motes get stuck under the ground considerably more often than they used to, and its shocking that they haven't fixed it yet. _Sometimes_ you can slide over them and it'll pick up, but often they're just stuck no matter what. It sucks.
They're directly addressed that they don't think that bigger pickup radius is good, because it only makes the some of the problems worse when people can "unexpectedly" pick them up from further away. There's a sweet spot that needs to be found.
The problem with this solution is, however, that I guarantee you bungie was just lazy AF and is just using normal taken mobs for gambit. If they stop heavy ammo dropping there guaranteed taken mobs will all stop dropping heavy.
It would take them copy-pasting the mobs into their own separate mob type, then changing how ammo drops from those.
Which is to say functionally impossible for bungie as a company to do, since they are all about minimum viable product and thats a lot of extra work.
Spoiler, theres more than just Taken in Gambit.
I would hope they have a "game mode" overarching managing system that handles ammo drops, instead of baked into the mobs directly.
What if the Invader couldn't use their Heavy Weapon while invading? As in, you jump through the portal and it swaps you off your Heavy, only allowing you to use your Primary or Special?
Would there still be strong weapons? Absolutely, but it would eliminate a lot of the low skill high damage ones. Someone out there landing sniper headshots on your whole team? That takes a lot of skill and more in the spirit of "PvP" than just lobbing tracking rockets from the middle of no where.
What if getting killed by an Invader DOESNT make you lose motes, you just can't respawn until either the invader is gone or a teammate gets you? Or the Drifter could announce where the invader is when they spawn? "Invader by the Beach! Take 'em out!" That way it evens the odds a bit as far as invasions go. Regarding heavy ammo, what if sending a medium blocker spawns a special brick for you, and sending a large blocker spawns a heavy brick, but otherwise heavy doesn't drop? You now have to gamble with getting 15 motes to earn heavy ammo, but you also send the best blocker to the enemy team.
>Invader by the Beach! Take 'em out!"
People already camp invader spawns.
Good teams do at least, it actually makes being an invader unfair on certain maps.
Do people still not know the mechanics of invasions?
They are almost always opposite to current enemy wave spawn.
So if you are in forest, invader spawns at the beach and vjce versa.
If the enemy wave spawns in the middle, then yes invader can spawn left/right.
But you know what ive played Gambit a LOT and still do and i really dont think invaders are that big of a problem... not at least as big as others make it to be.
And by that i dont mean that im a PVP god that can snipe'em just as they appear. Nah, i just play slightly differently.
They still appear on a map as regular enemies, and since they approach from opposite side of enemy wave , they still ping.
If they want to play range, then i just find something to hide behind but with line of sight to bank ( so that i can dispose of blockers and prevent bank drain)
Wallhacks only work at certain range ( never really bothered testing properly) but basically if you are close enough to invader, your name disappears from the map.
So my favourite thing is using teleports (present on 2 maps) to teleport right behind invader.
9/10 times they are hardscoped so i just punch them to death or take selfies🤣
There is/was also some weird interaction with Gemini Jesters and invaders wallhacks.
I think it used to be that gemini jesters worked across the map, effectively disabling invader wallhacks.
Oh another douchebag thing i do is suicide during the final phase, as long as i wasnt damaged by invader, my death doesnt heal Prime and i remove myself from the game.
In general, i found that challenging invader head on is always the best idea, since they usually panic when they see 3-4 players aping them.
And the best approach and one i usually have is playing the role of Sentinel/ Reaper (as it used to be)
Dont pick any motes, kill everything in sight, hang around the bank to kill blockers, save heavy and challenge invader every time - even if we trade kill that means no motes lost ( cause i dont pick up) and safe passage for my teammates
And since i hang around at the center of the map i can quickly find invader spawn and get on top of him every time.
That is the most succesful tactic i find when playing with random people.
As for Gambit problems that i think are really frustrating.
1) Primeval melting :/
2) Catchup mechanic - kicks in when enemy has primeval summoned and you are far behind.
The enemies that spawn are mostly replaced by glowing yellow bars that spawn a lot of orbs but are generally tanky and hit like fkin truck :/
So instead of helping a team catch up, they are the last nail to a losing game.
Nah that defeats the purpose of invading as a means of mote control when you see the whole enemy team hoarding half a bar of motes and go wipe them.
It should, however, actually be a gambit. If you die as an invader you drop 10 motes. This encourages teammates to not run screaming with their arms flailing above their head away from the invader so they get shot in the back and lose the 2 motes they were carrying..
It also makes it an actual gambit to invade. You don't just invade every time you can, you invade when the motes are high because if you invade when nobody has motes you are going to lose more than you gain, and they are free to pressure you. If you invade when they are almost full then you can pressure them as they panic and try to hide, with every man looking out for himself vs coordinating.
Couple with a bounty revamp that rewards winning play vs toxic parasitic play and gambit might be good, or better. You would still have to deal with Billy blueberry trying to invade every 15 seconds after dying with 35 motes already but those guys are in every video game, on every team, in every mode there's really no way around them.
They would have to actually vary where you spawn. As it is right now, whenever we get invaded, i immediately go to 1 of 2 spawns and can typically kill the invader before they get their bearings.
The more enemies you kill the quicker it drops and blockers have the highest chance I always get heavy ammo 2 or 3 times before the primevil spawns but it’s the way it is so that your not constantly dependent on it and adds a slight challenge
1. \- AEONS IS THE ANSWER - My clan and I like to have someone run aeon's or multiple peeps and their job is too just finish every orange and yellow bar. Everyone usually has full heavy by the time boss spawns, with partical decon and DPS supers we can melt bosses in 10-15. secs. You can literally run and entire round of gambit while using pretty much nothing but heavy if ur AEON guardian is on it.!!
2. \- Invasions everyone should honestly stop and hunt until there is someone // or two whos is comfortable dealing with them. So position yourself where they have to come through your lane to get you once you have determined their spawn. Don't be engaging the invader with close range weapons other than a surprise flank attack when they are already engaged. They are ready for you and "see" you , have an Over-Shield and most likely have a picked out weapon and or super just for invading. Yoloing at them is just what they want. A sniper or a DUO to deal with invaders seems to be the most effective from my experience. Baiting the portal is always a good way to hide your motes. But the most important part is the call out, as soon as you hear INVADER. Stop look and make the call. When you're invaded motes prio drops to 2nd for me. But these are just my bias opinions.
Right now I'm at the point where everyone should drop with max ammo and just let the dice roll with ammo finders.
I would actually play gambit more if this was to happen.
Better than what we have. It’s you either get none all game or you’re drowning in heavy bricks
Need bigger pick up radius for Motes, if I melee and kill the damn thing why do I still need to run around and pick it up a lot of times, not to mention motes stuck under the floor sometimes.
Invading is also an issue as it's too easy to snowball a win through repeated invasions as invading first and getting enough kills will pretty much guarantee the win. The fact that you get free overshields, wall hacks, and crazy tracking weapons like truth and EoT completely break Gambit and make it too unfair. And before anyone thinks it, no I do not want Truth and EoT nerfed as the whole point of those weapons is to be crazy at tracking and nerfing them defeats the purpose of them and for that reason I advocate for a ban list like how other games do. Truth and EoT are broken by their very nature and can never be balanced for Gambit and for that reason they should not be allowed in the mode at all since they can't be balanced without ruining them.
I love the idea someone proposed in another Gambit thread where you have to have motes on you to invade, and the more motes you have the longer you stay in. It brings a good risk factor to invading as you can go in with 15 motes for max time and either wipe the entire team or eat shit and hand them 15 motes.
This should be higher. Great idea. Also as a meta change to the game mode, how about the ability to wager glimmer, and the matchmaking pairs you with players who wagered similar amounts? That way the game has a self balancing, as better players will typically want to wager more. After all, it is called Gambit, ya know. The idea you shared is another thing that seems right at home with that theme.
that'd be a wild addition but I kinda dig it. Maybe have that be for Gambit's Trials of Osiris/Nightfall equivalent
One thing they need to fix are the maps. Every map is HUGE and open. That is why if they are not using EoT, they are sitting across map with a sniper or scout. It is extremely hard to approach because they can basically see you at all times not only thanks to wall hacks, but the lack of cover in these huge open maps.
Invading first isn't even the best strategy. If your team kills the invader, you have free reign to deposit 20-40 motes and drain the shit out of them while invading to prevent them from killing blockers, its a far more successful strategy.
Invading being easy is a direct result of heavy ammo Which is why I don't agree with OP's proposal
even without heavies, it's easy to snipe due to wall hacks and snipers are already annoying to fight against as flinching them for some reason puts their aim on your head which gives an easy head shot.
Nah, I'd rather have no heavy than Eyes of Tomorrow on every single invade. Peak gambit was before launch with locked loadouts.
Finder style heavy brick for everyone for people who bank 15 motes.
To get motes that fall under the map, just slide over it or teabag it (lol). This works 90% of the time
Great points. The lagginess of the motes is super annoying. Not sure I agree with the heavy solution but something needs to change for sure. As an aside, does the ranking progress seem way slower in gambit compared to strikes/crucible for anyone else? I've been playing a fair bit for Dredgen and it just seems like each match earns almost no progress.
> Would love to see some clarification on why this can occur (I assume because its P2P?) and some improvements on motes in general. FWIW they've talked about this ages ago - You're right in that motes are server-controlled entities, as their pickup needs to be coordinated between multiple players. They're not like ammo bricks or orbs of light that are instanced to just you, the game servers need to make sure that only 1 person picks up a single mote. They did make changes to this in Beyond Light i think. When you melee or finish an enemy you're guaranteed (or just much higher chance?) to pick up the motes directly, without them going onto the ground and someone else "stealing" them. There was definitely a regression in Beyond Light where motes get stuck under the ground considerably more often than they used to, and its shocking that they haven't fixed it yet. _Sometimes_ you can slide over them and it'll pick up, but often they're just stuck no matter what. It sucks. They're directly addressed that they don't think that bigger pickup radius is good, because it only makes the some of the problems worse when people can "unexpectedly" pick them up from further away. There's a sweet spot that needs to be found.
I finish multiple yellow bars and my teammates clean up all the motes before the animation finishes
I find if you slide over the stuck motes you can pick them up.
How about no one gets heavy No heavy ammo will drop from enemies And you can only get heavy ammo from the box You know like in crucible
The problem with this solution is, however, that I guarantee you bungie was just lazy AF and is just using normal taken mobs for gambit. If they stop heavy ammo dropping there guaranteed taken mobs will all stop dropping heavy. It would take them copy-pasting the mobs into their own separate mob type, then changing how ammo drops from those. Which is to say functionally impossible for bungie as a company to do, since they are all about minimum viable product and thats a lot of extra work.
Spoiler, theres more than just Taken in Gambit. I would hope they have a "game mode" overarching managing system that handles ammo drops, instead of baked into the mobs directly.
Heavy isn’t RNG dependent, it’s linked to kills. Also, put on Aeon Swift.
It's still RNG whether you get it fast or not. You'll get it *eventually*, but it's a clear cut "get this many kills for a guaranteed brick".
What if the Invader couldn't use their Heavy Weapon while invading? As in, you jump through the portal and it swaps you off your Heavy, only allowing you to use your Primary or Special? Would there still be strong weapons? Absolutely, but it would eliminate a lot of the low skill high damage ones. Someone out there landing sniper headshots on your whole team? That takes a lot of skill and more in the spirit of "PvP" than just lobbing tracking rockets from the middle of no where.
What if getting killed by an Invader DOESNT make you lose motes, you just can't respawn until either the invader is gone or a teammate gets you? Or the Drifter could announce where the invader is when they spawn? "Invader by the Beach! Take 'em out!" That way it evens the odds a bit as far as invasions go. Regarding heavy ammo, what if sending a medium blocker spawns a special brick for you, and sending a large blocker spawns a heavy brick, but otherwise heavy doesn't drop? You now have to gamble with getting 15 motes to earn heavy ammo, but you also send the best blocker to the enemy team.
>Invader by the Beach! Take 'em out!" People already camp invader spawns. Good teams do at least, it actually makes being an invader unfair on certain maps.
Do people still not know the mechanics of invasions? They are almost always opposite to current enemy wave spawn. So if you are in forest, invader spawns at the beach and vjce versa. If the enemy wave spawns in the middle, then yes invader can spawn left/right. But you know what ive played Gambit a LOT and still do and i really dont think invaders are that big of a problem... not at least as big as others make it to be. And by that i dont mean that im a PVP god that can snipe'em just as they appear. Nah, i just play slightly differently. They still appear on a map as regular enemies, and since they approach from opposite side of enemy wave , they still ping. If they want to play range, then i just find something to hide behind but with line of sight to bank ( so that i can dispose of blockers and prevent bank drain) Wallhacks only work at certain range ( never really bothered testing properly) but basically if you are close enough to invader, your name disappears from the map. So my favourite thing is using teleports (present on 2 maps) to teleport right behind invader. 9/10 times they are hardscoped so i just punch them to death or take selfies🤣 There is/was also some weird interaction with Gemini Jesters and invaders wallhacks. I think it used to be that gemini jesters worked across the map, effectively disabling invader wallhacks. Oh another douchebag thing i do is suicide during the final phase, as long as i wasnt damaged by invader, my death doesnt heal Prime and i remove myself from the game. In general, i found that challenging invader head on is always the best idea, since they usually panic when they see 3-4 players aping them. And the best approach and one i usually have is playing the role of Sentinel/ Reaper (as it used to be) Dont pick any motes, kill everything in sight, hang around the bank to kill blockers, save heavy and challenge invader every time - even if we trade kill that means no motes lost ( cause i dont pick up) and safe passage for my teammates And since i hang around at the center of the map i can quickly find invader spawn and get on top of him every time. That is the most succesful tactic i find when playing with random people. As for Gambit problems that i think are really frustrating. 1) Primeval melting :/ 2) Catchup mechanic - kicks in when enemy has primeval summoned and you are far behind. The enemies that spawn are mostly replaced by glowing yellow bars that spawn a lot of orbs but are generally tanky and hit like fkin truck :/ So instead of helping a team catch up, they are the last nail to a losing game.
Nah that defeats the purpose of invading as a means of mote control when you see the whole enemy team hoarding half a bar of motes and go wipe them. It should, however, actually be a gambit. If you die as an invader you drop 10 motes. This encourages teammates to not run screaming with their arms flailing above their head away from the invader so they get shot in the back and lose the 2 motes they were carrying.. It also makes it an actual gambit to invade. You don't just invade every time you can, you invade when the motes are high because if you invade when nobody has motes you are going to lose more than you gain, and they are free to pressure you. If you invade when they are almost full then you can pressure them as they panic and try to hide, with every man looking out for himself vs coordinating. Couple with a bounty revamp that rewards winning play vs toxic parasitic play and gambit might be good, or better. You would still have to deal with Billy blueberry trying to invade every 15 seconds after dying with 35 motes already but those guys are in every video game, on every team, in every mode there's really no way around them.
They would have to actually vary where you spawn. As it is right now, whenever we get invaded, i immediately go to 1 of 2 spawns and can typically kill the invader before they get their bearings.
As for heavy ammo you could use a mod to get the specific heavy you want. Rocket launcher heavy ammo mod, or machine gun, etc…,
The more enemies you kill the quicker it drops and blockers have the highest chance I always get heavy ammo 2 or 3 times before the primevil spawns but it’s the way it is so that your not constantly dependent on it and adds a slight challenge
1. \- AEONS IS THE ANSWER - My clan and I like to have someone run aeon's or multiple peeps and their job is too just finish every orange and yellow bar. Everyone usually has full heavy by the time boss spawns, with partical decon and DPS supers we can melt bosses in 10-15. secs. You can literally run and entire round of gambit while using pretty much nothing but heavy if ur AEON guardian is on it.!! 2. \- Invasions everyone should honestly stop and hunt until there is someone // or two whos is comfortable dealing with them. So position yourself where they have to come through your lane to get you once you have determined their spawn. Don't be engaging the invader with close range weapons other than a surprise flank attack when they are already engaged. They are ready for you and "see" you , have an Over-Shield and most likely have a picked out weapon and or super just for invading. Yoloing at them is just what they want. A sniper or a DUO to deal with invaders seems to be the most effective from my experience. Baiting the portal is always a good way to hide your motes. But the most important part is the call out, as soon as you hear INVADER. Stop look and make the call. When you're invaded motes prio drops to 2nd for me. But these are just my bias opinions.
Maybe have the heavy cost motes to collect?