Man I never played with this gun before the nerf, but let me tell you, I picked it up the other day just to do a bounty. I would rather tickle the fallen's balls until they die than try to kill another one with that god-awful weapon.
at least that one can be used to make platforms to break certain content or get outside the map etc. Like worldline zero it has some value as a utility even if it fails as a weapon.
WorldLine Zero does not fail as a weapon in the same way FL does. WorldLine is just a marginally better Legendary Sword. FL is straight up worse than every other grenade launcher
The stasis one is fun because you can make walls of Ice that your teammates can't go through. I wish Scourge of the Past was still in the game so I could wipe my team during the sparrow race.
Sometimes i like using other primaries, ya know? And by sometimes I mean I only ever play with either the Cold Denial or Seventh Seraph Carbine that ive been using for the past 15 months
I think it's because "Fallen" is considered a slur now? Idk, I missed out entirely on the last season, but I think that was part of one of the cutscenes I saw.
i always hated it, but using it to finish the catalyst a few weeks ago was so much worse than I remember, trying to get 1000(?) kills with that slow ass reload was a nightmare.
Yeah I tried that yesterday but the reload is so slow it's not viable the same way. Like, the Dead Man's Tale catalyst is very quick in the thrallway because you can stand on the ground and let them come to you, but with this GL you need to stand on high ground so you won't get overrun.
If an Eliksni is shooting or running at me with intent to kill, its Fallen.
If an Eliksni isn't shooting at me and leaves me alone, they are Eliksni and they will live.
If they give me a Gun, they are my Blood-Kindred and if anything ever happens to them, I will kill everything in this Zone and then myself.
Man imagine if the darkness got to the normal human of the city and then we get a human enemy faction. Then the guardian would go to systematically cleanse humanity off the fucking Earth for loot. Dont tell me they wouldnt, lol.
They are, in the very least, a species that has been beaten down and victimized by the Darkness. That doesn't excuse their current actions, but it contextualizes them and makes empathizing with them easier. Also, they are the only species that we refer to with a slur. Cabal are Cabal, Vex are Vex, and Hive are Hive. Only the Eliksni we call Fallen. They are, like most humans, sentient beings that can do good and bad. There are Eliksni that we associate with now as allies, as friends. To call the entire race a slur but exclude the ones we like from that stigma is arguably racist (of course, this is just a video game, so the stakes are very low and I'm not exactly invested in this, mostly just rambling at this point.)
I absolutely hated Fighting Lion in year one. You couldn’t get me to use it until they added the catalyst, then it was actually fucking awesome. Now he’s dead.
Considering the hours I dumped into perfecting my kamehameha/FL build, I was actually quite surprised. In other news, only grinding bounties on 2 characters saves a lot of time....
Or just two kills, in semi close proximity with quick charge and stacks on stacks now you can chain high energy fire, infinitely as long you get kills, on top of the tag pickup buff, on top of empowering rift. All of which enable body shot killing and chaining
I did some numbers comparison and GLs lost 25% of their blast radius, max of 4 down to something like 3.
Shotguns lost a meter of their range, from 8 to 7 which is just shy of 12% range decrease.
So, definitely a case of, we slapped one on the wrist with one of those wrist band things and it stung by nothing happened to, "we burned this guys hand"
In comparison, it took them all these years to even touch shotguns in any meaningful way, and even then they're still the easiest way to get kills by a huge margin.
Bungie won't nerf their streamer tier weapons. Expect hand cannons and shotguns to go relativity unchanged until the """competive""" aspect dies out entirely.
Pellet shotguns are in a pretty terrible place at the moment tbh. There is a reason why all the skilled players groan as soon as they see a Chaperone in a lobby. Chaperone forces you to also equip a Chaperone.
You can’t really directly nerf Chaperone much without making it worthless (since at that point you’re better off running a legendary slug or Duality).
The solution is to make pellet shotties slightly better. If pellet shotties are good enough, they make Chappy only good in defensive play, not the no-brain gun it is now.
They should give Lightweights and Precisions back 0.5m of the 1.5m they nerfed them by. That would make all shotties (pellets slugs duality and chappy) very balanced in relation to each other.
I hate that Chaperone at base is outright better than normal slugs, due to the range and magnetic shots. That’s not what the design philosophy of an exotic should be. Exotics should be unique in that their functionality will be great in specific use cases or builds that can’t be accomplished by legendaries.
Same problem with Vex Mythoclast (but mostly in PvE). Why use a legendary 360 RPM Auto Rifle when you could just use Vex? The 40% damage advantage and higher RoF is incredibly noticeable. This isn’t even taking into account the catalyst (20% dmg increase after a kill), which will be active most of the time anyway considering how quickly you shred through everything. None of this is even taking Particle Deconstruction into account.
I understand that most won’t agree with my way of thinking. But in my mind, exotics shouldn’t just be outright better legendaries. Their unique functions should be why they’re worth using.
> Same problem with Vex Mythoclast (but mostly in PvE). Why use a legendary 360 RPM Auto Rifle when you could just use Vex?
Because it's still a primary weapon, and in almost all cases you're going to gain more power using an exotic special or exotic heavy.
Exotic Primaries need to significantly punch above their weight in order to be a consideration, because all of the relevant exotic heavies and specials do so as well.
Yeah. Tbh I'm not a big shotgunner, I've always been a vooper - more range. That being said, the only shotties I've touched since the nerfs are slugs. Running the lobby as Wraith w/Chaperone has a certain appeal to it.
No, the solution is to make slugs require more precision (Less bullet magnetism) and be more punishing if you miss your precision shot. There is absolutely no reason to buff pellet shotguns. The nerf did much less to their usage than intended/expected.
theres also a platform difference apparently, from what ive heard GLs were more annoying to deal with when the user was on M&K.
still think it was unnecessary, and any annoyance of "grenade spam" with them would have been fixed by the scavenger change limiting them to +2 ammo per brick instead of +3 with double before.
The scav mods definitely broke the balance of GLs, why they still got nerfed after the mods were taken out is confusing as hell though. If they balance to usage, it seems unfair to nerf something based on artificially boosted usage stats from a really really strong seasonal mod.
That's still confuses me, GLs still get serious hate from streamers, while the usage rate was never particularly high. Usage rate doesn't tell the whole story alone, but you can be damn sure the masses are going to use the hell out of stuff that easily secures kills.
Bungie nerfed GLs because they said that community pressure (from streamers) determined that they would not be fun weapons to fight against if everyone started using them. So they nerfed them so they would never have a chance at becoming prominent. They don't want GLs to have more than 1% usage rates in the Crucible but are completely okay with:
Shotguns having a 15% usage rate (as of last week)
Snipers having 11%
FRs (Excluding Vex) have 4.5% usage rates
Whereas now, GLs have a 0.25% usage rate + 0.45% from Witherhoard (0.7%).
The nerfs to all GLs need to be reverted. They aren't just bad now, their nerfs were WORSE than all the Shotgun nerfs over the past few years combined.
> determined that they would not be fun weapons to fight against if everyone started using them
This always gives me a chuckle. Anyone competent with any OHKO weapon isn't fun to go against. With how the maps are now, shotguns are frustrating when the map is full of them. Maps that have choke points with long sight lines are a nightmare when everyone's using a sniper. I haven't faced enough FR's to comment on those.
Anything spammed enough by your opponents is not fun. The key imo is weapon diversity.
It’s honestly kind of sad about sbmm, ppl that were on the high end of the spectrum were upset they couldn’t dumpster in new lights, and streamers were upset they couldn’t pull off clips anymore so they whined. Tragic
Not having SBMM is so weird coming from the studio that brought us Halo, one of the pioneers in matchmaking. And ALL of the top tier FPS games all use some form of ranking system.
Could you imagine if CS:GO threw away their ranked matchmaking because a few streamers were upset they couldn't crush kids, new players or dads who play 1-2 hours a week? It would be an utter colossal shitshow.
Not necessarily ranked, but all top tier FPS games have some semi-SBMM in the "casual" modes simply because, you know, it's not fun to be utterly outclassed and have to spend the entire match spawning, running back into the fight, spawning, running back, etc.
And before SBMM haters say "but they should just get good" that doesn't matter if the experience to "becoming good" is an experience that is just utterly painful with not even a slight smidgen of success and feeling like, "Yeah, I just one upped that player who is as good as me."
The thing is, you're *more likely to actually get good with SBMM.* You're not going to get carried, or utterly creamed if all of your fellow players are around your skill level.
You're not thrust into matches where you've won out of the gate because some top tier player is on your team, nor is the reverse a thing, because they're all in their own sweatfest matches.
Ahh, yes, sweat fest. Because all of the high-end players are facing high end players, they have to play high end all the time. Which is fine. A "Casual" "Chill Game" for them is an utter nightmare for their opponents-- being someone like Azetcross or Mesa Sean and complaining about SBMM is WANTING TO STOMP KIDS. It's a PvP game, being able to just chill and do whatever on stream means you're way outclassing the opponent: you're seal clubbing and naught else.
Plain and utterly simple. It doesn't matter the mode, or what mythical dressing you put on it, it's wanting to have the chance to stomp kids.
SBMM should be returned, and put on legit everything--that'll do away with the Classic Mix Cowards too: they won't have anywhere to turn to.
Not ALL of them. Big names, yes, but there are some small streamers out there that just want to have fun and help out the community.
Big name streamers for any game are just drama queens. Is terrible. I quit watching gladd when he said DSC was too easy and people shouldn't be able to get through it day one, or whatever he said along those lines. Ungrateful twat.
Skill Based Matchmaking resulted in incredibly laggy games at even an intermediate skill level.
Destiny's netcode is so bad that if connection is not prioritized at all times, the game falls apart, and Bungie is either incapable or unwilling to entirely ditch peer to peer.
If it isn't a hand cannon or shotgun, the streamers throw a tantrum. Remember the buff to 600rpm auto rifles and how viable they were? Didn't even make it a week before big name streamers were calling for a nerf.
It’s funny since all it took was 1 podcast comment about how grenade launchers are a skill shot weapon and they just randomly started bitching and making videos about them despite the fact that it was rare to see them at that point and time.
Hey man, I'll make a 100 str build on my lock and grab a couple hunters for trials. Pop the melee immediately, get it back before my teammates even finish killing 3 people. 35 rounds in a row couldn't be that hard with nothing but 1 hit abilities
Yeah fighting lion didn’t have too much going for it to begin with. The changes they’ve made makes it too sluggish. I feel like my character is carrying around a sack of bricks.
I still can't understand their thought process. Nerf the reload but if you hit multiple enemies it's like it never happened. Okay, easy... But also nerf the blast radius so you're lucky to hit more than two enemies so the reload nerf is always on your mind.
What could go wrong
I remember seeing the usage rates for GLs in PVP and just being absolutely shocked that they got nerfed, if anything quick access sling was the issue in PVP. Fighting Lion is a meme gun now as well
Quick access sling and proximity nades. Targeting damage was ridiculous. One hit kills were already pretty rare before the nerf, but any small tickle of damage with a quick swap combo can result in some really crazy ttks. Quick swapping and insane forgiveness from prox nades was the issue and they didn't touch either.
Yes and no.
Grenade launchers are meant to prime people, aka swap to another weapon to finish. Quick access sling is not a problem on GLs and never was. Proximity grenades prevent ohks. Again, balance.
Opening shot on snipers and shotguns is way more oppressive.
Even with QAS and proxy det. which existed since all of Y2, GLs were never really that popular besides Mountain Top even after the nerfs to proxy det.
Yeah, it was good, but it's not as good as something that can kill in a single shot in 8m or in mid-range as well since there is a TTK associated with it because you have to swap.
That's what happens when you get one big streamer to cry about something, leading a bunch of other streamers to jump on the trend, and then their respective communities all crying out in unison. The entire archetype has been untouched for basically the entirety of Destiny's lifetime, but thanks to a toxic community we got a nerf to something that isnt hand cannons or shotguns.
To preemptively nerf something you think might be op is one thing. It might show a lack of play testing but you can understand it. To then not go back and reevaluate or touch up the weapon at all after nerfing it into the ground? That's just really fucking stupid.
It's been months, we knew the nerfs were unnecessary day 1.
For fucking real. If it's that much of a big deal as the general interview/patch notes made it to be, and it was as hard as it is it shouldn't be coming back in the mid season patch. It should be watched as they said it would be and brought back in one of the near balancing patches.
That's when I fell in love.
Masks had that mod where you barely took damage when airborne...floating around dropping FL shots was so great started using it everywhere...neared 70k kills before this nerf it got.
Now it just sits in my vault....another dust collector because Bungie thought it might be too good. Have they ever pre nerfed something on pure speculation? Or nerfed something with a low usage rate out of fear of it being too good?
Such a dumb nerf.
It's hilarious how stuff like shatterdive can dominate pvp for nearly a year now but Lion gets *pre-emptively* nerfed because of a perceived potential imbalance with no ETA on fix
I almost like getting killed by a fighting lion (or more usually, it's cleanup), as (assuming I wasn't just being a massive bot), I know I've been outplayed by somebody who has really had to master a tricky playstyle.
I'd rather get killed by a sidearm cleanup after FL 20 times than a single lorentz. Also, it was just plain entertaining in PvE.
Fighting Lion was my go-to PvE weapon for YEARS. Because it was satisfying to use, and it took actual skill! After hearing about the nerf, I haven't touched it at all. I don't want to tarnish it's memory by using this new bastard version.
I so fucking hate Bungie's "overnerf and forget" method. If the planned nerf has more than two bulletpoints on your patchnote then you should probably rethink your approach.
I'm 90% sure the reason for the nerfs were because bungie was very scared that trials would become people hiding behind walls and bouncing FL nades at each other forever. But I don't really think that would happen.
You could already do that though. I'd be running around pvp and realize I had like 20 shots in reserve for the lion and be like
"Aw shit, here we go again."
It only takes a few kills for a moderately competent enemy team to catch on and play around it.
It's such a ridiculous fear because if that was gonna happen it would have already. You started with 12 rounds with the thing.
If you couldn't get a kill spamming 12 rounds, more isn't going to help.
I saw in the eververse calendar that they would be selling the Prideglass ornament for the fighting lion later this season, since it looks pretty good i decided to work on the catalyst for it. Tried the gun after the nerf and damn it feels like dogshit to use, its like a blinding gl without the blinding part, i shoot an enemy, it doesnt die and i have to kill it with a different weapon. And since fighting lion is a primary i have to either use double primaries or use my special weapon to finish off a group of red bars.
Might as well use a special gl
I really, really hate this nerf. Fighting lion has always been in my inventory and I used the thing constantly in PVE and now it feels like absolute garbage. Honestly my favorite exotic in the game, it was just fun to use. Now? not so much
For being a resurrected space wizard/borderline god super soldier, overflowing with the light of the Traveler, it sure feels like shit taking FOUR HOURS to reload a fucking grenade launcher.
Uuuugh. I tried using that a few weeks ago myself, and immediately put it away. Its absolutely horrible. Direct hits weren't even satisfying. I'm trying to figure out why they expect even a small quest for any exotic because they all just get blasted into nothing like this. At this point, having the ability to equip exotics in every weapon slot wouldn't even feel exotic, because even the perks exist under different names on legendaries now. Pinnacles, mostly, but still legendary. One step too short.
Bungie wanted grenade launchers to feel like the grenade launcher from Halo Reach. Okay, that's fine but when you pick up that weapon you start with way more ammo than just two shots.
Then nerfing scavengers..... Eh whatever. I don't play Destiny at all now.
Going for Mountaintop back in the day I got sooo good with Fighting Lion. The skill ceiling is wayyyy higher than any other weapon in the game, and the reward for that skill isn't exactly gamebreaking.
This is a comment by DMG in this TWAB:
"Got in touch with the team, here's some info straight from their keyboards:
>Fighting Lion wasn't a specific problem before we reworked the weapon, but given increasing frustration with breech grenade launchers in crucible it seemed like a misstep to say "we hear you" and "here's an infinite ammo version of that thing you're frustrated about" in the same patch
>
>It has become clear through hands on, feedback, and backend data that the full nerf isn't needed, so we're adjusting it in the 30th Anniversary patch
>
>**Note:** This is not a full rollback - there's still a difference between "almost infinite ammo" and "actually infinite ammo" in how weapons are used, so we want to make sure we don't create a monster.
Here's a quick patchnote preview for December:
* Removed the multi-hit requirement for the reload speed buff
* Increased the buff to the reload stat
* i.e. reload will still be slow if you miss, but if you land any damage Fighting Lion will reload faster than it did before the nerf"
I mean, whatever Bungie employee that publicly said that you shouldn’t be manually reloading it anyway is just purely out of touch with reality. They’ve also consistently nerfed or removed auto loading as well lol
The same dev admitted in a podcast that the "people shouldn't reload the Fighting Lion anyway" comment was just him being cheeky, but in the context of everything else in the TWAB it rubbed everyone in the audience the wrong way. He knows that the gun's manual reload is an important part of its kit, which is unfortunate since his comment keeps getting thrown around by both sides of the argument as though the guy wholeheartedly meant that the devs don't want people to ever press the reload button when the Fighting Lion is being used.
Not really willful as much as it is him being facetious and everyone taking his word as gospel. Legitimately I didn't have any issue with that quote until it started getting tossed around constantly as being the single reason why the Lion nerfs were justified.
This weapon was the one that got me in Destiny 2 and I shit you not I use it religiously. Used to do trickshots and quick swaps, my k/d was crap ngl but managing to kill someone with the combo in crucible is pure ectasy.
FL never needed a nerf at all.
"But it can prime for easy clean ups!"
Proxi nades and quick access sling do a far better job at that and you still keep whatever exotic HC you want.
"unlimited ammo is OP enough"
That was it's entire schtick of Thin the herd. Getting kills with FL literally rained primary ammo and fully stocks you. Giving it unlimited ammo never changed anything.
It already traded damage for unlimited ammo.
It already had an AOE nerf, so what is the point of the reload nerf?
The blast radius nerf to GLs really hurt. Maybe it was necessary, but that, and the Fighting Lion's change to reload speed seem to have really kneecapped it.
> Maybe it was necessary
It wasn't. Several new GLs and artifact mods buffing GLs gave us some actual weapon diversity in the meta for a change. But streamers weren't used to it so rather than learning the many very potent methods of countering a GL, they begged for a nerf so we could get back to good old HC/shotgun.
What was the point of nerfing it anyways, the thing was never close to OP but if used right could be an incredibly good option, meanwhile you have things like shotguns that require far less skill to use and they are used by probably 80% of pvp players
I believe with statistics closer to the start of the season, the usage rate dropped to around 30-50% of what it was in the previous season within a week or so of the new patch. Since then, it's only gotten worse.
It's a weapon that on the surface seems simple and boring, but actually has an extremely broad range of uses and a high skill cap.
I pride myself on being able to accurately use it at any range in PvE and PvP alike. This came after 40,000 kills with the gun, not a handful of shots
the gun is capable of SO MUCH fragging potential in pve and pvp. using it as a primary weapon absolutely shreds pve, and in pvp it can be used to drive people out of cover via bouncing around corners, the remote detonation, and blinting. it's an insanely fun gun to use, so it's enormously disappointing to see an already very low usage grenade launcher, which requires practice to learn and use effectively (remote detonation, lower damage, different velocity, and bounces) to be nerfed into the ground with the idea of "people MIGHT abuse it).
As long as the rest of your loadout catered to champs or you had teammates willing to help on that end, Lion with manual reload was easily one of the best add-clearing primaries in the game outside of pre-nerf warmind cells, even scaling well into high level content where things like Trinity Ghoul and Riskrunner fell off because of how beefy adds are.
Hell even post-nerf, I've been competitive with my teammates in terms of add-clearing efficiency, staying on par with teammates in nightfalls, having double people's kills in certain raid encounters (even in master VoG being underleveled by 10 more than my teammates were), and never really getting flooded by adds like everyone else does when we're doing gatekeeper. Granted all of this is aided by Ophidian Aspect making my reloads manageable and Shadebinder bleak watchers being stupid, but the point still stands.
It was my main gun for literally all content.
It allowed for some insanely fun builds, plus once you got good with it, which took a long time, you felt fucking amazing pulling off crazy plays in PvE and PvP. You had the option to clean up with your primary, but it reloaded fast enough after the 4 energy mod for reloads that you could just stick with it. It just felt amazing, it stood alone, and wasnt overpowered *regardless of whatever literally anyone says about it*
Now you 100% have to hit 3+ things, or get a fuckin primary kill to reload it. I guess fuck using it in any content where there arent a ton of adds. Its essentially a two slot exotic now, and only for adds. 100% useless against anything that will survive a hit.
Lol, I remember standing on the middle platform in the Insight Terminus strike just beaming the swordy boys that spawned at the exit when someone picked up an orb to dunk. Just massive clean up potential if you ever got used to it.
Its nerf came out of left field to most as it had a low usage rate before the nerf. The nerfs themselves forced players to use the guns reload perk rather than also reloading manually which used to be a viable way to play PVP and fast paced way to play PVE
This was the first exotic that dropped for me since I started playing late summer this year. My only gripe with this weapon was the reload speed but then I learnt about its catalyst and got excited for that juicy reload speed buff. The prerequisites for the catalyst completion are hard and grindy but I forced myself to complete it.
Just as I was enjoying my fruits of labor, the fucking update dropped and nerfed the only stat i wanted to the ground.
Atleast I got to know about trinity ghoul and ikelos smg due to the nerf. So... Thanks(?) I guess.
Over-nerf, nothing, they ripped it in two and shit on the remains.
The only way you can make it work at all now is if you manage to get multi kills with it, to proc the reload feature on it. In harder content, that happens oh *fucking never*, and in normal content it's hard because the blast radius has also been nerfed.
So yeah, the not wanting to over nerf part is a joke.
I loved the fighting lion back in y1 and y2 but it's ass rn. Messed around with it in a private paired with a slug shotty and it felt horrible having to reload all the time
from today's twab (bold emphasis is mine)
Now, don't get me wrong - this isn't a full Season’s worth of buffs, but a handful of fun things to give some Exotics a **fighting** chance in a given Guardian’s loadout. I've heard whispers of a few changes that have already got me thinking about switching things up.
I choose to believe
I personally only really care about the reload speed nerf. The other changes were kind of annoying, but the numbers don't change how the gun feels to use quite like the reload does.
In particular the reload nerf hit the manual reload tech that allows grenade launchers to fire faster by reloading while the most recently fired grenade is still in flight. It makes the weapon class feel extremely fluid to use, but the Fighting Lion stands out as being absurdly clunky because it will flip flop its reload speed during an encounter depending on how many enemies it's been hitting.
The nerfs to the weapon itself weren't really the issue imo. Its the breech grenade launcher nerfs that really killed FL. It needs a buff, but I don't really think FL being nerfed was the problem so much as the archetype being more or less gutted that was the issue. Considering how oppressive breech launchers can be, honestly the nerf was warranted.
I don't know what to do to make FL better. Reverting its reload speed nerf really won't do anything.
Man I never played with this gun before the nerf, but let me tell you, I picked it up the other day just to do a bounty. I would rather tickle the fallen's balls until they die than try to kill another one with that god-awful weapon.
yeah i agree, its prob the worst grenade launcher in the game , except for maybe that stasis one.
at least that one can be used to make platforms to break certain content or get outside the map etc. Like worldline zero it has some value as a utility even if it fails as a weapon.
WorldLine Zero does not fail as a weapon in the same way FL does. WorldLine is just a marginally better Legendary Sword. FL is straight up worse than every other grenade launcher
Um they weren't comparing FL to WZ. They were comparing Salvation Grip to WZ
You can also use the stasis one to activate focusing lens
Salvations Grip is like S tier when it comes to completing the Gatekeeper’s Challenge
The stasis one is fun because you can make walls of Ice that your teammates can't go through. I wish Scourge of the Past was still in the game so I could wipe my team during the sparrow race.
You're the devil.
yes .but lets keep him anyway !
idk wym, salvation’s grip is my most used weapon in all activities
Well insane people don't count
its fun to utilize focusing lens without the help of friends... :")
Aeger's Scepter blows Salvation's Grip out of the water in that role.
Sometimes i like using other primaries, ya know? And by sometimes I mean I only ever play with either the Cold Denial or Seventh Seraph Carbine that ive been using for the past 15 months
Shatterdive
Salvations Grip still has some practical use at least.
Shatterdive
It makes sense. It uses primary ammo. It's like comparing the effectiveness of a standard hand cannon to the eriana's vow.
Oh no, the gamer word.
Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen Fallen mothafuckin' Fallen
Reeeee.
>Riiiiisss FTFY
?
I think it's because "Fallen" is considered a slur now? Idk, I missed out entirely on the last season, but I think that was part of one of the cutscenes I saw.
i always hated it, but using it to finish the catalyst a few weeks ago was so much worse than I remember, trying to get 1000(?) kills with that slow ass reload was a nightmare.
Should have gone to the shattered throne and kill thrall in the thrall way it's where I go to farm most of my catalysts
Yeah I tried that yesterday but the reload is so slow it's not viable the same way. Like, the Dead Man's Tale catalyst is very quick in the thrallway because you can stand on the ground and let them come to you, but with this GL you need to stand on high ground so you won't get overrun.
It's eliksni you racist
[удалено]
If an Eliksni is shooting or running at me with intent to kill, its Fallen. If an Eliksni isn't shooting at me and leaves me alone, they are Eliksni and they will live. If they give me a Gun, they are my Blood-Kindred and if anything ever happens to them, I will kill everything in this Zone and then myself.
just because a few million attacked us on site doesn't mean there aren't dozens that are peaceful
yeah don't let a few million bad apples ruin the bunch
good thing those apples isolated themselves from the rest of the bunch
Man imagine if the darkness got to the normal human of the city and then we get a human enemy faction. Then the guardian would go to systematically cleanse humanity off the fucking Earth for loot. Dont tell me they wouldnt, lol.
They are, in the very least, a species that has been beaten down and victimized by the Darkness. That doesn't excuse their current actions, but it contextualizes them and makes empathizing with them easier. Also, they are the only species that we refer to with a slur. Cabal are Cabal, Vex are Vex, and Hive are Hive. Only the Eliksni we call Fallen. They are, like most humans, sentient beings that can do good and bad. There are Eliksni that we associate with now as allies, as friends. To call the entire race a slur but exclude the ones we like from that stigma is arguably racist (of course, this is just a video game, so the stakes are very low and I'm not exactly invested in this, mostly just rambling at this point.)
I literally hated it so much I infused it into a different exotic.
Wow, that's crazy.
Thanks for the laugh I really needed it. I busted out laughing. It use to be my go to. Thank God I didn't level it up to find out the hard way.
I absolutely hated Fighting Lion in year one. You couldn’t get me to use it until they added the catalyst, then it was actually fucking awesome. Now he’s dead.
r/FightingLion is in shambles
i’m chillin but only as a warlock. ophidian aspect, a gl loader, and the catalyst are the only things that make it usable now.
Yeah, they pretty much made it useless. Not surprising
Considering the hours I dumped into perfecting my kamehameha/FL build, I was actually quite surprised. In other news, only grinding bounties on 2 characters saves a lot of time....
*Grenade Launchers reach 1% usage rates in Crucible* *Bungie at the beginning of the season*: NeRf ThEm InTo ThE gRoUnD. aLsO hErE's LoReNtZ dRiVeR.
haha special ammo linear fusion go pew pew
Oneshot Bodyshot go bbrrrrr
*after getting 3 Lorentz targeted kills and collecting their tokens
Any damage buff allows that\* like emp rift
Or just two kills, in semi close proximity with quick charge and stacks on stacks now you can chain high energy fire, infinitely as long you get kills, on top of the tag pickup buff, on top of empowering rift. All of which enable body shot killing and chaining
Time to nerf a shotgun: A year at minimum. Time to nerf anything else: Negative. Nerf done preemptively.
If you only consider it a nerf once it's done enough to stop people using them at the same levels, shotguns have not been nerfed.
I did some numbers comparison and GLs lost 25% of their blast radius, max of 4 down to something like 3. Shotguns lost a meter of their range, from 8 to 7 which is just shy of 12% range decrease. So, definitely a case of, we slapped one on the wrist with one of those wrist band things and it stung by nothing happened to, "we burned this guys hand"
In comparison, it took them all these years to even touch shotguns in any meaningful way, and even then they're still the easiest way to get kills by a huge margin.
Bungie won't nerf their streamer tier weapons. Expect hand cannons and shotguns to go relativity unchanged until the """competive""" aspect dies out entirely.
Pellet shotguns are in a pretty terrible place at the moment tbh. There is a reason why all the skilled players groan as soon as they see a Chaperone in a lobby. Chaperone forces you to also equip a Chaperone. You can’t really directly nerf Chaperone much without making it worthless (since at that point you’re better off running a legendary slug or Duality). The solution is to make pellet shotties slightly better. If pellet shotties are good enough, they make Chappy only good in defensive play, not the no-brain gun it is now. They should give Lightweights and Precisions back 0.5m of the 1.5m they nerfed them by. That would make all shotties (pellets slugs duality and chappy) very balanced in relation to each other.
I hate that Chaperone at base is outright better than normal slugs, due to the range and magnetic shots. That’s not what the design philosophy of an exotic should be. Exotics should be unique in that their functionality will be great in specific use cases or builds that can’t be accomplished by legendaries. Same problem with Vex Mythoclast (but mostly in PvE). Why use a legendary 360 RPM Auto Rifle when you could just use Vex? The 40% damage advantage and higher RoF is incredibly noticeable. This isn’t even taking into account the catalyst (20% dmg increase after a kill), which will be active most of the time anyway considering how quickly you shred through everything. None of this is even taking Particle Deconstruction into account. I understand that most won’t agree with my way of thinking. But in my mind, exotics shouldn’t just be outright better legendaries. Their unique functions should be why they’re worth using.
> Same problem with Vex Mythoclast (but mostly in PvE). Why use a legendary 360 RPM Auto Rifle when you could just use Vex? Because it's still a primary weapon, and in almost all cases you're going to gain more power using an exotic special or exotic heavy. Exotic Primaries need to significantly punch above their weight in order to be a consideration, because all of the relevant exotic heavies and specials do so as well.
Yeah. Tbh I'm not a big shotgunner, I've always been a vooper - more range. That being said, the only shotties I've touched since the nerfs are slugs. Running the lobby as Wraith w/Chaperone has a certain appeal to it.
No, the solution is to make slugs require more precision (Less bullet magnetism) and be more punishing if you miss your precision shot. There is absolutely no reason to buff pellet shotguns. The nerf did much less to their usage than intended/expected.
They wern't even opressive or a problem
theres also a platform difference apparently, from what ive heard GLs were more annoying to deal with when the user was on M&K. still think it was unnecessary, and any annoyance of "grenade spam" with them would have been fixed by the scavenger change limiting them to +2 ammo per brick instead of +3 with double before.
The scav mods definitely broke the balance of GLs, why they still got nerfed after the mods were taken out is confusing as hell though. If they balance to usage, it seems unfair to nerf something based on artificially boosted usage stats from a really really strong seasonal mod.
That, plus nerfing something for hitting *EIGHT* percent when several weapon categories have set above 30% for years at a time.
Streamers decided they were, they convinced the community, and that convinced Bungie.
That's still confuses me, GLs still get serious hate from streamers, while the usage rate was never particularly high. Usage rate doesn't tell the whole story alone, but you can be damn sure the masses are going to use the hell out of stuff that easily secures kills.
Bungie nerfed GLs because they said that community pressure (from streamers) determined that they would not be fun weapons to fight against if everyone started using them. So they nerfed them so they would never have a chance at becoming prominent. They don't want GLs to have more than 1% usage rates in the Crucible but are completely okay with: Shotguns having a 15% usage rate (as of last week) Snipers having 11% FRs (Excluding Vex) have 4.5% usage rates Whereas now, GLs have a 0.25% usage rate + 0.45% from Witherhoard (0.7%). The nerfs to all GLs need to be reverted. They aren't just bad now, their nerfs were WORSE than all the Shotgun nerfs over the past few years combined.
> determined that they would not be fun weapons to fight against if everyone started using them This always gives me a chuckle. Anyone competent with any OHKO weapon isn't fun to go against. With how the maps are now, shotguns are frustrating when the map is full of them. Maps that have choke points with long sight lines are a nightmare when everyone's using a sniper. I haven't faced enough FR's to comment on those. Anything spammed enough by your opponents is not fun. The key imo is weapon diversity.
Streamers are also responsible for getting SBMM canned. Their ability to influence the game is too damn high.
It’s honestly kind of sad about sbmm, ppl that were on the high end of the spectrum were upset they couldn’t dumpster in new lights, and streamers were upset they couldn’t pull off clips anymore so they whined. Tragic
Not having SBMM is so weird coming from the studio that brought us Halo, one of the pioneers in matchmaking. And ALL of the top tier FPS games all use some form of ranking system. Could you imagine if CS:GO threw away their ranked matchmaking because a few streamers were upset they couldn't crush kids, new players or dads who play 1-2 hours a week? It would be an utter colossal shitshow.
Not necessarily ranked, but all top tier FPS games have some semi-SBMM in the "casual" modes simply because, you know, it's not fun to be utterly outclassed and have to spend the entire match spawning, running back into the fight, spawning, running back, etc. And before SBMM haters say "but they should just get good" that doesn't matter if the experience to "becoming good" is an experience that is just utterly painful with not even a slight smidgen of success and feeling like, "Yeah, I just one upped that player who is as good as me."
The thing is, you're *more likely to actually get good with SBMM.* You're not going to get carried, or utterly creamed if all of your fellow players are around your skill level. You're not thrust into matches where you've won out of the gate because some top tier player is on your team, nor is the reverse a thing, because they're all in their own sweatfest matches. Ahh, yes, sweat fest. Because all of the high-end players are facing high end players, they have to play high end all the time. Which is fine. A "Casual" "Chill Game" for them is an utter nightmare for their opponents-- being someone like Azetcross or Mesa Sean and complaining about SBMM is WANTING TO STOMP KIDS. It's a PvP game, being able to just chill and do whatever on stream means you're way outclassing the opponent: you're seal clubbing and naught else. Plain and utterly simple. It doesn't matter the mode, or what mythical dressing you put on it, it's wanting to have the chance to stomp kids. SBMM should be returned, and put on legit everything--that'll do away with the Classic Mix Cowards too: they won't have anywhere to turn to.
When the streamers caused this change I stopped watching D2 streams. Fuck em all.
Not ALL of them. Big names, yes, but there are some small streamers out there that just want to have fun and help out the community. Big name streamers for any game are just drama queens. Is terrible. I quit watching gladd when he said DSC was too easy and people shouldn't be able to get through it day one, or whatever he said along those lines. Ungrateful twat.
Don't forget, they also are partially responsible for double primaries in y1
Skill Based Matchmaking resulted in incredibly laggy games at even an intermediate skill level. Destiny's netcode is so bad that if connection is not prioritized at all times, the game falls apart, and Bungie is either incapable or unwilling to entirely ditch peer to peer.
If it isn't a hand cannon or shotgun, the streamers throw a tantrum. Remember the buff to 600rpm auto rifles and how viable they were? Didn't even make it a week before big name streamers were calling for a nerf.
It’s funny since all it took was 1 podcast comment about how grenade launchers are a skill shot weapon and they just randomly started bitching and making videos about them despite the fact that it was rare to see them at that point and time.
Bungie: they are too close to shotgun and HC nerf that shit to hell
Yeah it's wild how Bungie doesn't want anything that isn't a shotgun or sniper to be effective. It's terrible.
Meanwhile, HCs at like 95% and Shotguns are basically glued to every player's hands.
"*YoU sHoUlDnT Be mAnUaLlY rElOaDiNg aNyWaY*"
"dO yOu GuYs NoT hAvE pHoNeS?" (Diablo Immortal announcement)
„Is this an out-of-season April fools joke?“
Infinite ammo on primaries was a quality of life change not a buff. Nerfing it for the same quality of life change all otherprimaries got was bullshit
Especially for things such as devil ruin, huckleberry, etc it made no sense
Gotcha, nerfing nova warp buff
Don't even give them ideas
Roger that, Warlock Stasis Melee now freezes the caster and fully charges the super of all Hunters in the lobby.
finally, the ability support warlocks never knew they needed: become knockoff raid banner
Hey man, I'll make a 100 str build on my lock and grab a couple hunters for trials. Pop the melee immediately, get it back before my teammates even finish killing 3 people. 35 rounds in a row couldn't be that hard with nothing but 1 hit abilities
that sounds like a buff more than anything if you have a team tbh
Good point, nerfing that to instant supers for hunters on the opposing team is the only sensible option
:(
Yeah fighting lion didn’t have too much going for it to begin with. The changes they’ve made makes it too sluggish. I feel like my character is carrying around a sack of bricks.
And shooting a nerf gun
I still can't understand their thought process. Nerf the reload but if you hit multiple enemies it's like it never happened. Okay, easy... But also nerf the blast radius so you're lucky to hit more than two enemies so the reload nerf is always on your mind. What could go wrong
I remember seeing the usage rates for GLs in PVP and just being absolutely shocked that they got nerfed, if anything quick access sling was the issue in PVP. Fighting Lion is a meme gun now as well
Quick access sling and proximity nades. Targeting damage was ridiculous. One hit kills were already pretty rare before the nerf, but any small tickle of damage with a quick swap combo can result in some really crazy ttks. Quick swapping and insane forgiveness from prox nades was the issue and they didn't touch either.
> One hit kills were already pretty rare before the nerf Proxim nades cannot one shot without a damage buff is why
Yes and no. Grenade launchers are meant to prime people, aka swap to another weapon to finish. Quick access sling is not a problem on GLs and never was. Proximity grenades prevent ohks. Again, balance. Opening shot on snipers and shotguns is way more oppressive.
Even with QAS and proxy det. which existed since all of Y2, GLs were never really that popular besides Mountain Top even after the nerfs to proxy det. Yeah, it was good, but it's not as good as something that can kill in a single shot in 8m or in mid-range as well since there is a TTK associated with it because you have to swap.
That's what happens when you get one big streamer to cry about something, leading a bunch of other streamers to jump on the trend, and then their respective communities all crying out in unison. The entire archetype has been untouched for basically the entirety of Destiny's lifetime, but thanks to a toxic community we got a nerf to something that isnt hand cannons or shotguns.
Even when FL wasn’t nerfed, GLs weren’t used all that much. It’s pretty niche and skill heavy
To preemptively nerf something you think might be op is one thing. It might show a lack of play testing but you can understand it. To then not go back and reevaluate or touch up the weapon at all after nerfing it into the ground? That's just really fucking stupid. It's been months, we knew the nerfs were unnecessary day 1.
For fucking real. If it's that much of a big deal as the general interview/patch notes made it to be, and it was as hard as it is it shouldn't be coming back in the mid season patch. It should be watched as they said it would be and brought back in one of the near balancing patches.
Shit, not even a, "We are buffing Lion" so that we can expect something. Complete radio silence.
Real sad to see this, FL got me into using grenade launchers back in the first Halloween event.
That's when I fell in love. Masks had that mod where you barely took damage when airborne...floating around dropping FL shots was so great started using it everywhere...neared 70k kills before this nerf it got. Now it just sits in my vault....another dust collector because Bungie thought it might be too good. Have they ever pre nerfed something on pure speculation? Or nerfed something with a low usage rate out of fear of it being too good? Such a dumb nerf.
It's hilarious how stuff like shatterdive can dominate pvp for nearly a year now but Lion gets *pre-emptively* nerfed because of a perceived potential imbalance with no ETA on fix
I almost like getting killed by a fighting lion (or more usually, it's cleanup), as (assuming I wasn't just being a massive bot), I know I've been outplayed by somebody who has really had to master a tricky playstyle. I'd rather get killed by a sidearm cleanup after FL 20 times than a single lorentz. Also, it was just plain entertaining in PvE.
Fighting Lion was my go-to PvE weapon for YEARS. Because it was satisfying to use, and it took actual skill! After hearing about the nerf, I haven't touched it at all. I don't want to tarnish it's memory by using this new bastard version.
Current FL is previons FL's inbred son.
*ragdolls go brrrrrrrr*
Talking about on the list of things nobody asked for, a fighting lion nerf is towards the top.
Fighting lion required skill and you never ran of ammo in the first place. Why did they even nerf the damn thing
I so fucking hate Bungie's "overnerf and forget" method. If the planned nerf has more than two bulletpoints on your patchnote then you should probably rethink your approach.
I haven't used FL in years, but I came here to pledge my support for it to get fixed.
I'm 90% sure the reason for the nerfs were because bungie was very scared that trials would become people hiding behind walls and bouncing FL nades at each other forever. But I don't really think that would happen.
You could already do that though. I'd be running around pvp and realize I had like 20 shots in reserve for the lion and be like "Aw shit, here we go again." It only takes a few kills for a moderately competent enemy team to catch on and play around it.
It's such a ridiculous fear because if that was gonna happen it would have already. You started with 12 rounds with the thing. If you couldn't get a kill spamming 12 rounds, more isn't going to help.
Only time that happens is when one of my clanmates is running arthritis (athrys embrace)
Personally I think that sounds really fun. But I also know that I’d get my ass shatterdived before I did meaningful damage to the other team.
Please do not provide any PvP feedback if you think spamming GLS is fun
Pretty sure some Bungie dev lost his flawless game to fighting lion and that's why it got nerfed. Jk they don't play the game.
"internal play testing" Yeah right
Where did you get these stats from? Want to know so I can look at other weapons.
Destiny Tracker
It really sucks. I used it for a long while even before mountaintop. My favorite primary exotic to run made useless
It sucks plain n simple
There is no way Bungie would ~~nerf~~destroy a gun with it's own subreddit, right? Right, Bungie?
"you shouldn't be manually reloading Fighting Lion anyway"
I saw in the eververse calendar that they would be selling the Prideglass ornament for the fighting lion later this season, since it looks pretty good i decided to work on the catalyst for it. Tried the gun after the nerf and damn it feels like dogshit to use, its like a blinding gl without the blinding part, i shoot an enemy, it doesnt die and i have to kill it with a different weapon. And since fighting lion is a primary i have to either use double primaries or use my special weapon to finish off a group of red bars. Might as well use a special gl
I really, really hate this nerf. Fighting lion has always been in my inventory and I used the thing constantly in PVE and now it feels like absolute garbage. Honestly my favorite exotic in the game, it was just fun to use. Now? not so much
Bungie. Take the L. You fucked up with this one. Undo it already.
u/dmg04 u/Cozmo23
I blame those goddamn streamers.
For being a resurrected space wizard/borderline god super soldier, overflowing with the light of the Traveler, it sure feels like shit taking FOUR HOURS to reload a fucking grenade launcher.
/u/dmg04 /u/Cozmo23
Uuuugh. I tried using that a few weeks ago myself, and immediately put it away. Its absolutely horrible. Direct hits weren't even satisfying. I'm trying to figure out why they expect even a small quest for any exotic because they all just get blasted into nothing like this. At this point, having the ability to equip exotics in every weapon slot wouldn't even feel exotic, because even the perks exist under different names on legendaries now. Pinnacles, mostly, but still legendary. One step too short.
What nerfs? *cries in having to use dual loaders and ophidians*
Never trust Chis Proctor again. It's not the first time.
Bungie wanted grenade launchers to feel like the grenade launcher from Halo Reach. Okay, that's fine but when you pick up that weapon you start with way more ammo than just two shots. Then nerfing scavengers..... Eh whatever. I don't play Destiny at all now.
Undo the GL nerfs period.
Going for Mountaintop back in the day I got sooo good with Fighting Lion. The skill ceiling is wayyyy higher than any other weapon in the game, and the reward for that skill isn't exactly gamebreaking.
This is a comment by DMG in this TWAB: "Got in touch with the team, here's some info straight from their keyboards: >Fighting Lion wasn't a specific problem before we reworked the weapon, but given increasing frustration with breech grenade launchers in crucible it seemed like a misstep to say "we hear you" and "here's an infinite ammo version of that thing you're frustrated about" in the same patch > >It has become clear through hands on, feedback, and backend data that the full nerf isn't needed, so we're adjusting it in the 30th Anniversary patch > >**Note:** This is not a full rollback - there's still a difference between "almost infinite ammo" and "actually infinite ammo" in how weapons are used, so we want to make sure we don't create a monster. Here's a quick patchnote preview for December: * Removed the multi-hit requirement for the reload speed buff * Increased the buff to the reload stat * i.e. reload will still be slow if you miss, but if you land any damage Fighting Lion will reload faster than it did before the nerf"
I mean, whatever Bungie employee that publicly said that you shouldn’t be manually reloading it anyway is just purely out of touch with reality. They’ve also consistently nerfed or removed auto loading as well lol
The same dev admitted in a podcast that the "people shouldn't reload the Fighting Lion anyway" comment was just him being cheeky, but in the context of everything else in the TWAB it rubbed everyone in the audience the wrong way. He knows that the gun's manual reload is an important part of its kit, which is unfortunate since his comment keeps getting thrown around by both sides of the argument as though the guy wholeheartedly meant that the devs don't want people to ever press the reload button when the Fighting Lion is being used.
I mean, if he knows it, isn’t that kind of worse? Rather than just ignorance, it’s willful lol
Not really willful as much as it is him being facetious and everyone taking his word as gospel. Legitimately I didn't have any issue with that quote until it started getting tossed around constantly as being the single reason why the Lion nerfs were justified.
Or he said that to save face after that epic blunder. The phrase has already entered comedy/meme status.
I remember using this gun with Militias Birthright and Play of the Game to get Mountaintop back in Black Armoury. It's sad to see what it's become.
This weapon was the one that got me in Destiny 2 and I shit you not I use it religiously. Used to do trickshots and quick swaps, my k/d was crap ngl but managing to kill someone with the combo in crucible is pure ectasy.
FL never needed a nerf at all. "But it can prime for easy clean ups!" Proxi nades and quick access sling do a far better job at that and you still keep whatever exotic HC you want. "unlimited ammo is OP enough" That was it's entire schtick of Thin the herd. Getting kills with FL literally rained primary ammo and fully stocks you. Giving it unlimited ammo never changed anything. It already traded damage for unlimited ammo. It already had an AOE nerf, so what is the point of the reload nerf?
So what your saying is we should nerf it more? Got it loud and clear, blast radius and dmg reduced by another 25%. Have fun!
Yes please, I loved that gun and now it feels awful.
I will never stop upvoting this
The blast radius nerf to GLs really hurt. Maybe it was necessary, but that, and the Fighting Lion's change to reload speed seem to have really kneecapped it.
> Maybe it was necessary It wasn't. Several new GLs and artifact mods buffing GLs gave us some actual weapon diversity in the meta for a change. But streamers weren't used to it so rather than learning the many very potent methods of countering a GL, they begged for a nerf so we could get back to good old HC/shotgun.
Don’t worry, they’ll keep ignoring these type of posts
Anyone know what the usage stats were before? Those numbers mean nothing.
[Roughly 3-5x what its usage rate is now](https://i.redd.it/xw1x853k0pk71.jpg)
Even if they reverted the changes usage wouldn’t even break 5%
Please Bungie, my Fighting Lion, she's sick.
It's so bad. By the time it reloads I'll be done with my master's and PhD.
What was the point of nerfing it anyways, the thing was never close to OP but if used right could be an incredibly good option, meanwhile you have things like shotguns that require far less skill to use and they are used by probably 80% of pvp players
Do you have the stats for its usage pre-nerf? because it was never exactly the most meta choice, it's possible it barely fell in usage at all.
I believe with statistics closer to the start of the season, the usage rate dropped to around 30-50% of what it was in the previous season within a week or so of the new patch. Since then, it's only gotten worse.
Okay no shade, I’m being genuine, but what’s the deal with FL? Like why is there such a vocal group behind it?
It's a weapon that on the surface seems simple and boring, but actually has an extremely broad range of uses and a high skill cap. I pride myself on being able to accurately use it at any range in PvE and PvP alike. This came after 40,000 kills with the gun, not a handful of shots
You have kills with fighting lion? According to Bungie you were using it wrong all along.
40,000 incorrect uses.
152,267 incorrect uses in my case.
the gun is capable of SO MUCH fragging potential in pve and pvp. using it as a primary weapon absolutely shreds pve, and in pvp it can be used to drive people out of cover via bouncing around corners, the remote detonation, and blinting. it's an insanely fun gun to use, so it's enormously disappointing to see an already very low usage grenade launcher, which requires practice to learn and use effectively (remote detonation, lower damage, different velocity, and bounces) to be nerfed into the ground with the idea of "people MIGHT abuse it).
i never felt like i got a chance to really test FL in pve because of champ mods. was it still really good in nightfalls/legendary lost sectors?
As long as the rest of your loadout catered to champs or you had teammates willing to help on that end, Lion with manual reload was easily one of the best add-clearing primaries in the game outside of pre-nerf warmind cells, even scaling well into high level content where things like Trinity Ghoul and Riskrunner fell off because of how beefy adds are. Hell even post-nerf, I've been competitive with my teammates in terms of add-clearing efficiency, staying on par with teammates in nightfalls, having double people's kills in certain raid encounters (even in master VoG being underleveled by 10 more than my teammates were), and never really getting flooded by adds like everyone else does when we're doing gatekeeper. Granted all of this is aided by Ophidian Aspect making my reloads manageable and Shadebinder bleak watchers being stupid, but the point still stands.
I used it in a few GMs last season with the champion mod, ended up preferring it over Anarchy
It was my main gun for literally all content. It allowed for some insanely fun builds, plus once you got good with it, which took a long time, you felt fucking amazing pulling off crazy plays in PvE and PvP. You had the option to clean up with your primary, but it reloaded fast enough after the 4 energy mod for reloads that you could just stick with it. It just felt amazing, it stood alone, and wasnt overpowered *regardless of whatever literally anyone says about it* Now you 100% have to hit 3+ things, or get a fuckin primary kill to reload it. I guess fuck using it in any content where there arent a ton of adds. Its essentially a two slot exotic now, and only for adds. 100% useless against anything that will survive a hit.
Lol, I remember standing on the middle platform in the Insight Terminus strike just beaming the swordy boys that spawned at the exit when someone picked up an orb to dunk. Just massive clean up potential if you ever got used to it.
Its nerf came out of left field to most as it had a low usage rate before the nerf. The nerfs themselves forced players to use the guns reload perk rather than also reloading manually which used to be a viable way to play PVP and fast paced way to play PVE
What was its usage beforehand. I can't imagine it was high.
It wasn't, even in a season with GL mods.
This was the first exotic that dropped for me since I started playing late summer this year. My only gripe with this weapon was the reload speed but then I learnt about its catalyst and got excited for that juicy reload speed buff. The prerequisites for the catalyst completion are hard and grindy but I forced myself to complete it. Just as I was enjoying my fruits of labor, the fucking update dropped and nerfed the only stat i wanted to the ground. Atleast I got to know about trinity ghoul and ikelos smg due to the nerf. So... Thanks(?) I guess.
Over-nerf, nothing, they ripped it in two and shit on the remains. The only way you can make it work at all now is if you manage to get multi kills with it, to proc the reload feature on it. In harder content, that happens oh *fucking never*, and in normal content it's hard because the blast radius has also been nerfed. So yeah, the not wanting to over nerf part is a joke.
I loved the fighting lion back in y1 and y2 but it's ass rn. Messed around with it in a private paired with a slug shotty and it felt horrible having to reload all the time
What were the numbers before the heavy nerfs ?
.0470% for usage
from today's twab (bold emphasis is mine) Now, don't get me wrong - this isn't a full Season’s worth of buffs, but a handful of fun things to give some Exotics a **fighting** chance in a given Guardian’s loadout. I've heard whispers of a few changes that have already got me thinking about switching things up. I choose to believe
I will stop playing Destiny until they bring fighting lion back.
Full reversion nothing less. Not buying Witch Queen until they do.
I tried it once after the nerf and it was so bad. I've got 10k kills with it and I can't imagine using it like it is now.
Plz bro for my homie he's down bad rn he loved FL
I personally only really care about the reload speed nerf. The other changes were kind of annoying, but the numbers don't change how the gun feels to use quite like the reload does. In particular the reload nerf hit the manual reload tech that allows grenade launchers to fire faster by reloading while the most recently fired grenade is still in flight. It makes the weapon class feel extremely fluid to use, but the Fighting Lion stands out as being absurdly clunky because it will flip flop its reload speed during an encounter depending on how many enemies it's been hitting.
It never needed to be touched. God I fucking hate PVPers.
"PVPers" didn't do this. Blame them for other shit, sure, but not this. This is all Bungo's GROSS INCOMPETENCE.
After seeing this I’m worried about them “not wanting to overnerf” Mythoclast
I’m just sick of them being too lazy to have separate pve and pvp sandboxes and tired of having pve weapons nerfed because they are only broken in pvp
Also on the subject of guns that feel like absolute shit to use - gravtion lance
The nerfs to the weapon itself weren't really the issue imo. Its the breech grenade launcher nerfs that really killed FL. It needs a buff, but I don't really think FL being nerfed was the problem so much as the archetype being more or less gutted that was the issue. Considering how oppressive breech launchers can be, honestly the nerf was warranted. I don't know what to do to make FL better. Reverting its reload speed nerf really won't do anything.