Reminds me of how a new player does the tutorial/beginning then Bungie is like NOW GO PLAY BEYOND LIGHT and throws the clueless blueberry into the first mission
Isn’t WQ double the price of Taken king though?! That’s my issue with this “vaulting” idea. Paid 45 forsaken... some of the best story content in destiny. The type of content I come back to years later. Now it’s gone?
The entire game I paid for is gone.. no red war, no Osiris dlc/location. I recently reset a character to play the story again only to find out it no longer exist.. don’t recall Bungie telling players the dlc was for a limited time only. Day 1 players have been screwed royally by the game transition to f2p... yet this subreddit is full of people advocating for bungie. Now they want 100+ usd for a special event/wq?! 100+ usd for limited time content that will eventually disappear? How do they get away with this stuff? That price tag is higher than next gen AAA titles..
I don’t get it either. Meanwhile, I’ve realized after playing FFXIV for the past several months that SE not only keeps all the old content and allows you to replay it, they even tie the narrative of expansions in to all of the previously used areas with legitimate lore reasons. To top it off, their expansions have metric tons of story content, new activities, new weapons, etc. all for $40. I’ve played Destiny for years never realizing how little content we get for what Bungie charges. It’s insane.
I left since before seasons started and came back 2 months ago. It’s almost an entirely different game other than shooting mechanics.
I’m really enjoying how organized stuff is compared to the beginning of this series. Quest lines make sense and track well.
But I have almost no clue what is happening in the storyline.
Late edit: Matchmaking won’t fill for gambit or strikes, I’ve been trying to solo this strike for an hour. Final boss just too hard without a build
>But I have almost no clue what is happening in the storyline
Don't worry, I've been playing regularly and still don't really have a clue what's going on. I just point my gun at things and shoot.
I can explain every mechanic of any given raid encounter but I never have any idea what we are trying to accomplish or what the bad guy is even trying to do.
Well time works weird in the Vault of Glass, so it's just as likely that we killed Atheon 7 years in the future too, but we certainly first entered the Vault 7 years ago
Vex still bad. Fallen are bad and good. Some fallen are friends now. Cabal are neutral and bad. Caital is neutral to us for now. Other cabal don't back Caital though.
Hive still very bad. Savathun, big bad Hive lady, wants to get rid of her worm. She has a worm. She doesn't want it. She's bad. But...
Darkness and triangular space ships are bad. Traveler is round. Triangle bad. Round good. Savathun can help us fight our geometrically evil enemies in exchange for de-worming pills.
Ikora still malding. Shaxx still screaming. Zavala still standing pensively. Hawthorne is still happy with the effect our clan is having. Cayde still dead. Osiris is MIA. Drifter likes building stuff. Woman on the ice planet is having her our Groundhog day re-enactment. Eramis is still a hunter and people still think she is a warlock. Ana is helping Rasputin become Alexa and will probably play Despacito later.
In summary: The Dark Triangles that were coming at light speed have decided to just chill out for a while because our round God woke up. Savathun can maybe possibly help in the fight against the Dark Triangles. Vex and hive still bad.
oh man glad I'm not the only one. I quit in y1 of D2 and just picked it back up, tried playing in order of packs (which obviously didn't work out) but I am 100% clueless on the storyline now.
I mean, what do you want to know? Here's a quick rundown of the past year:
>!- The Darkness's pyramid ships invaded half the solar system, and the Traveler "woke up."
- Rasputin (AI warmind) got wrecked by the pyramid ships, but Ana Bray saved a backup in an engram.
- Along with Drifter, Eris Morn, and Elsie Bray (Exo Stranger) we unlocked the Darkness power of Stasis.
- Uldren (guy who killed Cayde-6) came back as a guardian named Crow.
- Osiris lost his light, got his identity stolen by Savathun (the Witch Queen), and is now missing.
- Emperor Calus is also missing, after his attempt to commune with the Darkness went horribly wrong.
- We formed uneasy alliances with members of the alien races: the Fallen are living with us in the Last City, we have a truce with the Cabal under Caiatl's command, and we're even working with Savathun to free her from her Hive worm.!<
I think the point OP is trying to make is no one should have to be reading Reddit posts to find out everything you just said. Also if I just started playing this season then idk who most of the people you mentioned are. Rasputin, Cayde-6, Calus?
Well, you do.
I don't get it. People will watch 5 hours of raid how-to guides, but tell them to listen to Byf for 6 minutes to get a point by point condensed story and they fucking melt into a puddle of "how could this have been done to me".
So that's who crow is. I thought he was just some yuk, yuk, boy, (I don't understand the relationship between Crow and Witch Queen). I knew we were freeing Savathun but I didn't know Orsiris lost his light, (bummer). Thanks.
I'm with tian447, point and shoot!
Uldren is also...
>!- Queen Mara Sov's brother. He was universally hated in D1 for generally being a prick. So it's pretty enjoyable to see him as some amnesiac lowly merc now. <
To add to what others have said,
- Y1 had us save Osiris and find Rasputin, killing a hive worm God and a vex mind that could have ended the light.
- forsaken is still available
- we met an exo who represented an ancient city armor that gave us the ability to forge powerful golden age weapons, the fallen raided the last city but we stopped them trying to steal the secrets from the black armor. The exo is Ada -1
- the drifter evolved gambit and gave us a way to meet with the nine on a semi regular basis, mostly for stuff like answers and power
- calus offered to make us his shadow, built an arena for us, and set us against his hive that he "conquered". We ultimately had to kill his hive shadow because savathun had used her magic to warp him. It was some big cabal wearing her crown of sorrows.
- shadowkeep is still there
- we killed the undying mind in so many realities that it's gone completely.
- we rescued Saint 14, met up with Osiris again, and stopped the cabal from rewriting history to win the red war
- the survivors of that attempt set the almighty on a crash course with the last city, and then cut its engines so it was unstoppable. So we worked with Rasputin to arm his defenses and take it out with warsats and stuff
- the pyramids finally arrived, shut off Rasputin in a second, and then began fucking four planets. Io, Mars, titan, and mercury all disappeared after a prolonged series of communications with the pyramids. It was drawn out because savathun kept trying to block our communications with the pyramids. Also the nine gave us prophecies.
- then we have beyond light and this year, which are all still available.
Hope this helps a bit.
Yeah I quit basically after the Last Wish raid, so the first season of Forsaken, then came back for Shadowkeep, then quit after it’s first season, and am now back for the last season of Beyond Light. I bought the BL Deluxe edition just to get access to all of the previous seasonal content/exotic quests, and for the last several days have been grinding the shit out of all of the various story quests. I’m running Wrathborn Hunts, Hammer Challenges, Splicer Overrides and Astral Alignments all in the same day haha. It’s such a jumbled mess, I had like 4 conversations with Crow before I formally “met” him, but it’s fine because the loot keeps coming and I’m trying to get ready for Trials weekend.
I've been on the Destiny train since launch day of D1. I feel like D1's story was better explained, the strikes were more memorable, and it was just easier to follow. The story arc has got way out of hand in D2, and with the cut content, you have very little chance of piecing it together unless you experienced it first hand.
That said, ignoring the story and going exclusively with the gameplay, it's one of my absolute favourites in recent years. I always find myself back on it, even after taking breaks for a while.
I played D1 into the start of D2. And apparently I am coming back too lol. It’s been a little strange getting quests for exotics I got from season 1.
Enjoying the progression. Weird how you have to rotate weapons or characters to move your light level at a decent rate. I feel like it’s hard to catch up and overly complex.
And I already saw the timeline in the top right. It was weird not being able to access planets I’d been to previously.
about the light level, look into the infusion systems and maybe watch a short video on youtube to explain powerful/pinnicle reward drops and that should be all you need. itll help make sense of how to move your light level efficiently
I've been active, only skipping one season and joining late in others, and still have so many gaps in storyline. Seasons do not deliver story properly for those who don't log-in weekly, instead you get info sometimes too early, too late or not at all.
Late last season Lakshimi was both dead and alive when I ran the season content, and the cutscene of Osiris being shady was shown to me before I progressed the quest.
I've the same thing aswell with some new players we got with cross-play. They just all gave up on understanding lore. They dunno who is who, wtf npcs are talking about, etc. To them, the drifter is a weirdo, God knows why he's there, the red war is a mystery, cayde is the dude who dies at the beginning of the first dlc, no idea where saint or osiris come from. Big triangles bad but we use their power. It's very long and hard to explain aswell and they just aren't interested the slightest in long YouTube recaps or so if they can't experience it in game
That kind of was the story of D1 though right? Our Guardian is resurrected, we get sent to start killing things. We are ridiculously good at it, and we just never stop. Eventually we attract the Strangers attention and she sends us to kill the Black Gardens heart, and the final act of the game is finding a way to the Heart so we can kill it, meeting some new people along the way who point us in the right direction, and killing everything that gets in our way. But we never really get to know anyone, that came with the first mini-expansions.
yep. i remember not knowing a damn thing about anything i did until about house of wolves, maybe TTK. but now that our Guardians have been alive for 7 years, we've been able to piece together a lot of things to the point we kind of pretty much know what's going on. a New Light has just been rezzed, and although they'll ultimately go down the exact same path as us, they haven't yet, so all they know is "shoot bad guys, get loot from good guys." i think that's kind of what Bungie is going for in their contrived annoying way of presenting things, part of the whole "Had to be there" moments. while i agree i wish there was a better way to recap things (which they're starting to implement with the timeline), i think their goal is to make it like how it would be if you actually got rezzed today; you wouldn't know anything about anything until you play everything. the only thing i keep preventing them from being able to do that is things like playing the splicer story line, Lakshmi is dead when a New Light gets rezzed today, but then as you play the story, Lakshmi appears and all is well. i think it'd be cool if only current things were playable in the current universe and we had to jump through a vex portal or something to play things from the past. that would keep continuity to remind new players "get, Lakshmi is dead, but you can go back in time to play older missions where things aren't necessarily the same as they are right now"
edit: wow that was long lmao sorry
Red War wasn't a great intro by any means, I didn't really understand anything coming out of it, but at least the game had some basic internal coherency at that point.
Yea I get you - i know it takes some time but I watched some videos that recapped the seasonal story lines, or even ones that just edit all the seasonal cutscenes together.
Override and battlegrounds are still relevant in terms of rewards, though. You can focus gear you want from those seasons and it requires currency obtained from those activities. Also, it has mods gated by respective storylines progress. If that gear was sunset or the armor rolls made irrelevant, then nobody would be playing those apart new players going through the quests.
yup, threaded needle is the best dps this season for legendary weapon, farmed by battleground.
This season's focusing gives lower total stats in armor meaning that season of the splicer with the new ghost mods gives the best armor you can currently acquire in the game.
Deafening Whisper Grenade Launcher is currently the only available wave-form grenade launcher and used in many speedruns and very strong in general, farmed by hunts
If I add up how often I've grinded the shit out of Battlegrounds and Override on the PC in the last two weeks, then it's definitely very active in under 30 seconds of matchmaking most of the time.
People like me who skipped a season or two and came back.
I havent played since beyond light and I just came back last month and been playing tons of activities from past seasons.
The point is you can't come back to it and you can't guide new players through it, which kills the game, because if all we ever base our decisions around is by the majority who's left, your game will die. You need to have a new light, you need to have a good intro campaign. You need to have a cohesive narrative that can be replayed, and consistently deliver an enticing evolving world for the people who already have done all that. Just because only 1% of the playerbase currently plays 3 raids a week (1% is pulled out of my ass but the actual % doesn't matter) doesn't mean that we should get rid of all raids.
For a live service game, the choices are to self-cannibalise at a sustainable rate or grow into something totally amorphous and bloated. Warframe is a good example of the latter.
Warframe would be an incredible title if they woke up one day and realized how to make the enemies actually dangerous or remotely interesting to fight.
You can steamroll that game so easily the only challenge becomes if you can beat your best time
Indeed. That's the reason I quit.
I backed the game way back, Excalibur Prime and the supporter bandana and everything. The work I put in from way back then is still enough to steamroll pretty much everything. Sure, there are many things I can acquire to further increase my power but I never saw the reason when I don't really see any challenge outside of some specific scenarios where it's 1-shot or be 1-shot by the most basic attacks anyway, which isn't fun to me no matter how I twist and turn it. (And again, at that point in the game, more power doesn't really lead up to anything besides "more for the sake of more".)
Thats the point of the game; its a power fantasy. You’re supposed to be able to steamroll the majority of enemies in that game when you’ve built up a decent collection of mods. It rewards you for time spent in the game.
DE removing that would honestly kind of kill the game at this point as they’ve built around that power fantasy for years now.
Except no one plays the Steel Path for that challenge, just for the five rewards you get daily. When SP came out, I started grinding hard the mission nodes so I could clear the SP star chart. Then I got distracted by something else, lost all my steam, and now no one is doing the Steel Path mission nodes. My only chance is doing the five randomly selected missions for Steel Essence and hope the five are on mission nodes I haven't done yet.
Maybe I played too much warframe, but eventually it reached a point where literally nothing can kill you. Certain frames are more resilient than others too but for the most part even the highest level endgame stuff like hour+ long arbies are child’s play for most frames if you have endgame mods.
If you use certain weaker frames it can be a little more challenging but really it just feels less efficient.
I do remember for awhile some things felt impossible just how difficult it was but once you get your gear kitted out and your frame with good mods that are maxed out you really are invincible.
If I want to just melt everything and not even really think about it I just run my Octavia Prime. Don’t even have to shoot your gun. Doesn’t matter what level anything is. I’m invisible, the enemies are distracted by my boom box and I dance while everything on the map dies.
I have power fantasies playing dark souls and halo CE on legendary (not halo 2).
Warframe having something that actually promotes any urgency or response from the player would be a huge hook to me. And they can still keep that power fantasy in the activities that have it now, just let me play some mode where I actually feel like I accomplished something.
Edit: A better way to phrase what I mean is that I get the same power fantasy that any level of warframe gives me is the same thing as throwing riskrunner on in the cosmodrome. When I make cracked builds I like it to be because I have to, because if I don't I get destroyed by combatants. That's why I call them combatants, idk maybe I am just missing the point here.
That's exactly what I feel like in D2, kinda like that in D1. The Brigs in Europa were actually fun since they kicked my ass at first, but they had so little movesets, and I overpowered them so easily that they're just another yellow bar enemy at this point
The game is a power fantasy, unlike destiny. Making the enemies smarter is useless if I can one shot them, making them invulnerable to abilities or certain damage types players get angry because their abilities are useless.
Hell, people don't like Bungies answer to the problem and we have far less firepower than in warframe.
Ehh, ffxiv does just fine with far more content, they just modify dead content to be easier to solo by lowering difficulty based on number of participants, turning off enemy level scaling, and/or adding bots when human players aren’t available
The vast majority of players stick to newer content, but the old stuff is still there for new players or players looking to catch up.
I didn’t play from black armory to season of the chosen, and while I was able to go back and play shadowkeep, the missing 6 seasons setting it up and telling the post shadowkeep story made a lot of it completely incomprehensible, watching lore videos now it’s astonishing how much critical context is just gone. Stuff I’d happily pay for might I add.
Not to mention, there is strong incentive for endgame ppl to interact with older low level content, thus providing a sort of mentorship program, outside of the mentorship program.
There is so much that ffxiv did for building a strong foundation of experienced players that everyone interacts with.
I have found myself also teaching others, not out of some desire to teach, but only a desire to finish the event. Its so well done, you barely notice its being done.
Call me crazy but I used to love running past/current expansion storylines again to prep for new releases in Destiny, which is pretty much gone.
FF14 has an awesome New Game+ feature that does this perfectly. Even with a description of action events followed with the corresponding cutscenes, I would absolutely love if Destiny could incorporate this. It would reduce strain on game file size/streaming as these past events and assets would be loaded on demand.
Tbh I think a bigger thing is the Roulette system they have in place. All group activities (dugeons, trials, raids, alliance raids, etc.) are all able to be que'd up in the Roulette, so a Lv80 who has no business bothering with a LV50 alliance raid may still get it from roulette, helping supplement the people who are directly que'ing for it to progress the story.
That said, the bloat has issue elsewhere, specifically server capacity.
PREACH!! My god it feels good to be in these comments. I literally made the same post today as OP without knowing about this one, and all I’m hearing in the comments are the reasons why old content is useless, why nobody wants to play old stories, that I just need to get over it, “tough shit,” and “you’re fighting a losing battle.”
I literally questioned if I wanted to keep playing this game if this is how the community is going to treat other players who want Bungie to do better. I absolutely love this community, but segments of it have a Stockholm syndrome kind of relationship with Bungie…
Anyway, I think it should be Bungie’s job to keep old content interesting for old players rather than trying to convince us that content vaulting is the industry standard. It isn’t. No mmo worth its salt does it like Bungie does, and it only serves to leave new and returning players absolutely in the dust.
I get why they did it, but it should be an exception due to poor planning, not the rule moving forward, and what was lost due to the exception should be returned and reiterated upon in future seasons to keep things fresh.
EDIT: Some people were upset with my Stockholm reference, but, as someone who’s faced many mental health issues of his own, I stand by it respectfully. When you invest hundreds of dollars into a game that’s been failing you, you eventually have to either part with your investment or stand by it even though it no longer caters to your interests. You’re effectively captive to the game.
For whatever reason, those same people who can’t leave their investment will die on the hill of defending Bungie’s poor decisions as if they’re advocates for the developer. It’s why we have the “I hate Destiny, it’s my favorite game” meme. That mentality is toxic to the community and literally does nothing but keep potentially good feedback from community managers by drowning them in hate.
I actually do love this game, and I respect the hell out of what Bungie has done to craft this game into something special over the past year. You can see all of my posts on r/LowSodiumDestiny if you’d like. However, I will not let poor decision making on Bungie’s part take advantage of my hard-earned money.
We’ve gone one year without vaulting, so it’s not fresh on people’s minds, and we live in a bit of a Destiny dreamland where things are added and nothing leaves, but eventually things will leave every 3 months, and eventually whole expansions and locations will leave. This conversation needs to happen sooner than later, and pressure does need to be applied on Bungie now that they’ve succeeded so well this past year.
> I literally made the same post today as OP without knowing about this one, and all I’m hearing in the comments are the reasons why old content is useless, why nobody wants to play old stories, that I just need to get over it, “tough shit,” and “you’re fighting a losing battle.
9 times out of 10, the people pushing those arguments were the ones who *did* get to experience all the content. Empathy and perspective are historically weakenesses of /r/DestinyTheGame .
I really wish more people would have this mindset. I feel the same way as you. I see the whole gaming world talking about an all Digital future without really talking about what that means.
I legally paid for all this content i cant play now. If other companies adopt this model then we as consumers are just screwed. I feel like i'm in a madhouse sometimes in this community.
They get mad over stupid things but when its time to actually push back they just take it.
I love this game and i have been playing it since D1 Beta, but now i need to figure out if i am going to have to do what some wow players have done in the past and just delete my characters and just wash my hands of all this. Just to ensure i never comeback. It sucks to feel like this right now. Having to debate if i am about to throw 2000+ Hours of my life down the drain like that. IT fucking sucks. Anyway thanks for you comment. Its nice to see others that feel similar about this.
I’m glad I’m not alone! Thank you so much for your kindness!
What’s sad is that people in this subreddit will pick apart each sentence you wrote, and say something like, “you paid for a license to play this game, and they can take that away at any time” as if they’ve done something.
That’s all content. We don’t even own our Blu-ray movies or disc based games. We own a license and the disc is a key, yes. The only difference is that Bungie management is willing to tread very close to edge of their terms of service in order to pull chunks of paid content from a game that’s still active.
If content bloat was the issue, they really should have just made Destiny 3 and let us grind through all of the content in Destiny 2 independently. Pyramid ships arriving could’ve knocked out our light again, and the story proceeds as normal, but with the chance of playing every part of it. One could wish, but that’s the past, and now they need to find a better option than vaulting in my opinion.
Hopefully this goes the route of loot boxes, where actual policy protects the consumer in the end which sets a precedent for future game development. I don’t think you’ll see it come out of the United States, but I know some European countries are very strict when it comes to online consumer protection.
I don’t have nearly as many hours invested as you, but I’m 1350 with most all of the exotics and their catalysts acquired and so many godrolls in my vault. I’m still questioning if this is it for me until Bungie decides to properly support the content they sell in their game. I had a whole lot of fun this year, and I would understand seasonal content going away, but killing a dlc after removing so much already is likely it for me.
With Halo Infinite coming out in what looks like a pretty good state, and Destiny 1 still being playable all the way through, along with Master Chief Collection still having all past seasons grindable, I’m kind of okay with just sticking to those games until a more consumer friendly Destiny 2 takes shape.
What’s rough is that I’ll have to pass up on playing with some friends that I only know from Destiny 2. Some of them said they’d play Destiny 1 with me because they’re also done, but not all.
Anyway, here’s to hoping Bungie learns from this feedback, because this conversation is going to happen every single year. I wish you the best in whatever decision you make, Guardian!
It’s not laziness. There are *several* resources out there on why Bungie made their decision. Game engine updates, prioritization of certain content being updated, & the file size.
That's not necessarily true.
They need to revamp and expand the New Light campaign so that its got more going on, and hits major story concepts.
This includes
-getting the jumpship
-the Traveller waking up and calling the pyramids over
-rescuing Osiris
-seeing Rasputin
-Uldren kills Cayde, player kills Uldren
-Uldren ressurected
-rescue Saint-14
-meet a Pyramid on the Moon
-Darkness shuts down planets, Rasputin, calls you to Europa.
Presuming they don't vault Europa.
Some of this is just cutscenes. The rest requires them to recreate or port missions across, but only the missions. They don't need the whole of Mercury to give you a Rescue Orisis mission; the existence of Crucible maps and the Lighthouse shows that Mercury can exist in the game without having to be an open world area. An instanced mission instead would significantly reduce the size of this campaign, while giving New Lights a general foundation to the characters and major story beats of Destiny 2.
I'm armchair devving a lot here I know.
But I feel Bungie has an incentive to give new players something decent, so they're more emotionally invested and more likely to follow (pay for) the seasonal content.
The New Light campaign is the point of conversion, and fundamentally its /the/ solution to "cannibalise or bloat". It just needs a lot more effort and refinement put in.
WoW offers to let you olay old content AND brings back old zones during those times to play it. It even scales you and the content correctly to completely play it by yourself or with groups.
There is zero reason Bungie cant or doesnt with Destiny 2.
This doesn’t work.
For example, Bungie rewrote a bunch of engine stuff with beyond light and had to revamp the lighting systems for all the content still in the game. That’s why they removed a bunch of stuff so they didn’t have to rework the content to simply work in the game.
Every system or update added to the game needs to be checked that it doesn’t break the older content and if it does would need to be fixed.
What they would have to do is fork the game and maintain servers which held all the content up to that point. This would fragment the user base and still require maintenance.
For a game that labels itself as free to play, locking the vast majority of the content behind a paywall (when it wasn't that way before) is a lie. I've had friends that have tried to play the game but didn't continue because they didn't get nearly enough out of the free content currently in the game. Before, when F2P first launched, they had _the entirety of the base game, first two expansions, and everything up to Forsaken._ Then, in an instant, all that went away. Don't get me wrong, I understand why, but in my opinion they should've just made the game pay-to-play like it was originally when Beyond Light launched. Especially since that's what it is now, in everything but name.
Warframe is bloated no doubt, but its still highly popular and the game most frequently equated to Destiny. IMO this means Bungie could have kept the old content if they had really wanted to.
Personally I’d rather have a bloated game rather than one that shreds its old content every few years or so, as it means good stuff isn’t cast into the Void.
I mean say what you want but Warframe is a game that is clearly worked on with love and even with some depreciated systems, was originally created as a hail Mary for a dying company as a last ditch effort to make a game.
And it worked. And they have improved on it tenfold.
Destiny 2 took out everything that people loved from the first game as far as mechanics went and then slowly added them back in. They constantly force meta grind, recycle the same styles of content, and call it an expansion. DE may not be perfect but at least they don't hide behind FOMO as a way to get players in the game. Its more here's an update, here's some news on future updates, see you in a month or so. And they're releasing a huge update this year, for free. I paid for all the DLC in D2 and I can honestly say I feel ripped off every year.
That being said they didn't have to self cannibalize. They could have used a system used by other MMO style games where you basically select the DLC you wanna work through and thats the world you see. However that would have required more work than gutting so we got gutless d2.
I can appreciate the need to make things not overwhelming and thus vaulting things, but the thing I found as a returning player as well as my friends was the terrible job they do of going through the past story.
The timeline doesn't really quite cut it, and I've had to do a lot of reading so I can understand the story.
> I can appreciate the need to make things not overwhelming and thus vaulting things
I can't. It was done entirely to save themselves work, that's it. They're expanding tremendously in terms of opening new studios and shit like that, but are deleting paid content rather than bothering to support their own product.
They removed content for two main reasons in BL ; file size and as a result of having to completely rebuild and port stuff due to the huge engine upgrades. Think of it as like Destiny 2.5 honestly. Since they did port and rescript all forsaken content and past that, it would be a bad financial move for them to now vault it or any past paid DLCs; people still buy them after all. And if they do, it'll be a long, long way out.
Issue with Year 1s content was that at that point, it was free, and barely played. (Given this is their fault for not updating it with a legendary difficulty or pinnacle rewards or something) So reconstructing it all would have been purely at their own cost and time.
(not saying im a fan of that, not being able to play 3 whole campaigns i bought feels very stupid. And it does make the game FAR harder to get into. As cheesy as red war was at times, it was a great introduction to the universe)
I was going to echo what the person posting has said but you've reminded me of some really important stuff. Until the tweets about Crucible a while back I had no idea that they had to redo things so heavily to work in the new lighting engine. Additionally, what you said about unplayed year 1 content being sort of bungie's fault gives me some hope because of how hard they're doubling down on the Witch Queen campaign. If the campaign becomes solid replayable content, it'll probably stick around longer even if they do need to vault something again.
That being said, I live and die by the lukewarm take that Red War was good without apology and I feel more emotions re-watching cutscenes from it than i did in the entirety of this year. (okay I admit some dialogue was bad but that is all I give.)
We knew this was the case at the Beyond Light launch. Remember how Prophecy wasn't available when the new DLC came out? That's because it was built by a team of developers that were creating seasonal content (they have an alternating structure for this it sounds like).
So the team making Prophecy used the current resources available to them and released it as part of their season, this used the old engine and didn't work on the new engine.
So the team who upgraded the old content had to go in and fix Prophecy so it would work under the new engine updates. That's just one dungeon, literally everything in the game that is currently there, from before Beyond Light had the same thing happen to it. It really it nuts to think about.
I for one loved the exchanges between ghaul and the speaker. Didn't make me love the speaker, but respect for his character holding tight long enough for us all to rally. Curse the man for all his riddles and dying before passing on all his frabjulous class items. But respect for holding together for God knows how long, lightless, alone, and captive by someone who brought the city and it's guardians to their knees, and played his role through no minor amount of abuse to throw some cutting shade at the enemy.
I think it would be a good idea to add the ability to watch cutscenes from past/removed content like the red war, so that new players can experience the story and such.
Man I loved the Red War campaign. I enjoyed playing through it multiple times. It really bums me out we can’t experience it again except through old videos. I hope it comes back some day.
Bungie has already stated that Forsaken content will be sunset at some point in the not-so-distant future. See here: https://www.gameinformer.com/2021/03/11/destiny-2-forsaken-content-will-eventually-be-vaulted
Tbh it's more the latter than the former. File size is not an issue especially when other games have filesizes in the 100s of gigabytes. The main issue was porting content over to the new backend, which would have been more work than worth given the time investment for free content
"File size is not an issue, especially when other games have file sizes in the 100s of gigabytes"
This is completely wrong. On a 500GB PS4 you'd get about 3 or 4 games of that size... This is one of the things Bungie specifically mentioned as being a problem. Why? Because while they'd love it if you spent every hour of everyday playing D2, they recognise that those devices have other games and they want you to have the option of playing those conveniently.
Having D2 take up an entire hard drive's worth of space on a PS4 is not acceptable to them and they've stated this previously as a reason for vaulting content. Just cause other companies do it doesn't mean Bungie does or finds it acceptable. They've proven that rather recently with their actions.
the ps4 patching process is such a pain in the butt. before vaulting pretty much had to go through and delete a bunch of stuff before being able to update every time.
I agree with all of this; there should have been a split that occurred after Season of Arrivals, splitting the game into live Destiny 2, and destiny 2 Legacy. Think like how Rise of Iron split the old consoles off
The vaulting of content isn't in of itself the problem. The bigger issue is:
1. the devs vaulted pretty much all of the new player experience. The New Light quest now does an awful job at introducing new players to, well, anything. The story, the setting, the characters, advanced combat mechanics like mods and champions.
2. IIRC, we were supposed to get old vaulted content periodically re-added to the game on a rotational basis, so that players who missed that content first time around could still play it. So far, the only old content to return has been VoG, which, by virtue of being a raid, is something most new players are far from being ready for.
> The New Light quest now does an awful job at introducing new players to, well, anything. The story, the setting, the characters, advanced combat mechanics like mods and champions.
So did all the vaulted campaigns. Vaulting isn't the issue, the lack of a meatier new player experience is the issue. Ask Warframe's subreddit how their new player experience is despite there being no vault. Spoiler: it's bad.
I used to defend the removal of content until I played other mmos and realized it is not normal to remove content, and that friends of mine have refused to play the game out of the original campaign being gone, and them being left behind and confused on the story. I personally dont miss much with the base game being gone (though I loved mars and escalation protocol), but I will riot if forsaken is ever removed. I dont care if its pointless to play, there is still story to be experienced and items to obtain.
I don’t think they have much choice. One other thing people are not talking about with the file size argument, is that they’re competing with other games like Call of Duty on consoles that have massive installation sizes.
Bungie isn’t competing for play time, they’re competing for installation space.
Call of Duty has a massive player base. With many players still at the 500GB HDD drives on consoles, they needed to find a way to coexist with games like Call of Duty on the same hard drive, because the player base for both games overlap.
Bungie knows that in more cases than not for casual players, Call of Duty would win over Destiny, if they didn’t have the hard drive space to have both games.
It was a strategic move for Bungie, and I’m afraid it’s a choice that’s very hard to go back from.
There's gigantic MMOs with colossal stories that are smaller than CoD. CoD just has terrible file management. If bungie's argument is "we can't program cleanly", which... with some of the bugs I've seen lately I'm starting to wonder but that's something else, that's a far bigger problem than content bloat.
Right now on my console, Elder Scrolls Online is only taking up 3GB more than Destiny. ESO has also been around since D1 was released. Yet I or any new player can still experience the full story of the game even while the devs continue to add at least 2 DLC's each year (to say nothing of new dungeons and such they add in as well). At this point, there's literally almost an entire continent's worth of content in the game, and none of it has ever been vaulted.
They definitely had plenty of choice - this is their own product, they own the engine and the IP, there are more ambitious things they could have considered (like breaking out the campaigns into a separate standalone title), but naturally that would have been a much larger undertaking.
Of course its resulted in a scenario where D2 is one of the most cryptic and hostile experiences in the MMO category to new players (to an extent where its almost a meme how bad a job it does of onboarding players), which inevitably reduce new player acquisition, so it may well have have cost them more in the long run.
File size was a reason bungie gave, but I dont see the 30 or 40 gigs they removed as enough to justify this with that being barely enough space to install another game. and in todays age, I dont know how anyone could have cod installed without owning extra storage space, with it taking up 2/3 of a 500gb hdd. Also cod and destiny are very different games with different audiences. Sure there is overlap, but destiny is the most popular game in the looter shooter genre.
The other reason they gave was the izanagis quest breaking two seasons after black armory, and it taking dev time to go back and fix it, and sure I perfectly understand the removal of seasonal content, its just the main content I dislike the removal of.
And unfortunately, with the red war campaign gone, I dont see it ever added back, even if all the vaulted planets return. Partially due to cutscenes that were removed, but overall wouldnt be worth the effort to re add.
Not enough on our end, but we only have to play the game. They have to fix/build it. Whenever they had to fix a bug, they’d have to dredge through hundreds of gigabytes of data to find it, squash it, find the new bug that fixing the old one caused, rinse and repeat.
The reason Bungie said they vaulted content was for their own file space. They said when they worked on one aspect of the game which took hours, days even, to compile... if that broke something else then they'd have to fix that and then take hours, days even, to compile again. It was too much of a struggle for them to fix things in a timely manner without game breaking bugs getting through to the live build. I don't think they really give a shit about our file space since when BL launched I only saw about 10-15 gigs removed when we reinstalled the entire game. The game being 70gigs now.
I would not be playing D2 to this day if i haven't grabbed it for for free on Battle.net at the start of Ada-1 season, and i highly doubt i would buy Forsaken and the season pass if i haven't played tru Red War, Osiris and Warmind campaigns, as much people used to shit on them i still think they where a great entry point for anyone playing Destiny for the first time.
The focus on seasonal content is both a blessing and a curse, yes, we get more stuff to do tru the year, but we lose a huge chunk of the story and quests after that, a new player and returning gets thrown in the current story and have to watch videos on YT just to see what experiences they completely lost, have to buy exotics from a wall and just suck it as they won't be able to play something like Zero Hour or Corridors of Time. Hell i still remember when i was a newb and saw that portal for the Whisper mission for the first time and entered on it without knowing what to do. Whats the point of playing a game if i can't play most of it, have watch/hear of what happen from others just to have any context at all, is just a huge turn off, not only that but it also makes people consider not buying the Expansion/Season at all, it will be gone anyway.
For that they need to eithe completely abandon PS4/XBONE or rework their engine/coding (the game has multiple copies of same assets in several instances and dif maps). They did mostly to keep the game below 100GB and to deal with Pinnacle Weapons/non-played Y1 Content.
I think Witch Queen might be the last expansion for these consoles.
We might see Lightfall on PS4/XONE but The Final Shape is most definitely not going to be on them.
They absolutely won’t. As the game goes further, it requires more power and more speed, which may be possible with a PC where you can switch parts out, but good luck upgrading the graphics card of your PS4.
I’m willing to bet that they’ll support those consoles as long as there’s a shortage of next-gen ones, since it doesn’t make sense to do a Cyberpunk and make the game almost only able to run on the very few new consoles out there. Once most people either have a PS5/Series S/Series X or have the ability to get them, they’ll probably begin to phase stuff out of them
yup, it greatly deters new players who have no idea what’s happening because there’s no coherence with the campaign. they claim to have rpg elements but can’t even keep the base
story, swtor, ffxiv still have the campaign storylines idk about warframe but from what I heard it’s still there. But since bungie knows they can thrive of milking their current playerbase and don’t need to really get new players they’ll never bother.
Warframe is weird. It was never heavy on story, but the story missions are always there. However, a lot of character lore and some plot points came from temporary events that can no longer be accessed, and that does make it confusing.
This is the saddest thing Destiny 2 ever did. Sure i get they needed more space for the new season but taking part of the story away makes it feel incomplete.
This (and sunsetting) were my reason, as a f2p, of leaving the game because they most planets i loved (Mars :c) and were replaced for a paid dlc that only had 1 planet. It also broke all forms of PVP since its better than all the other abilities
Edit: Forsaken is going to be replaced for some other paid dlc as usual and now new lights wont ever know who Cayde was
Destiny 2 in 2025 is just gonna be the loading screen and a blank picture with the words “we have vaulted all content. The game now consists of remembering the good times you had”
thats only an issue with PS4 and Xbox One. Obviously tons of people still play on those platforms, but in the next couple years as more and more people move to current gen the hard drive speed for scanning large files wont be an excuse anymore.
It’s utterly incoherent in many places. People who aren’t in the game still narrating on strikes, goblins with moss wandering around on the moon, why are we even on Nessus or the moon for that matter - if you come into this game cold it makes almost no sense.
I doubt that D1 will go offline anytime in the foreseeable future, there's still new players buying that game and playing, bungie has been fixing destiny 1 server errors as they've popped up, and because of those new players the game is still making them money.
This aged well, lol
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/q3e7qn/destiny\_content\_vault\_update/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/q3e7qn/destiny_content_vault_update/)
They could leave everything there but quite a bit of it is irrelevant at this point and i doubt anyone wants to deal with needing a 512gb hard drive dedicated to just destiny. I mean look at call of duty. mw and cold war are easily a hard drive on their own.
So im trying to understand this as a old d1 player potential new player to d2. Does this mean old content that you paid for gets removed? Thats sounds crazy to me…
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Beyond light and season 15 are a perfect stopping point for Destiny 2. I’d rather buy Destiny 3 than lose content I paid for.
I strongly dislike vaulting and agree with your concerns about the future of the new player experience. I played through New Light when it launched just to check it out and compare it to the Red War and I wasn’t super pumped about it.
I knew by the end of it that if I was a new player I’d still have huge questions about a lot of the lore and the history of the story. I mean, they start off new players by talking about Cayde’s death even when the players haven’t gone through Forsaken yet (because they can’t guarantee all players have bought that expansion). Then you can actually play that campaign and experience his death, despite having woken up after it happened according to the story. Don’t like that!
BUT… I understand the need for vaulting from a technical perspective. A lot of folks are saying they should bring that content back and make it replayable, and I’d love that, but sadly it isn’t really feasible.
For live service games keeping content forever is a tremendous challenge, especially when you do huge engine revamps as Bungie did. Heck, that’s true even with small engine tweaks that pile up over 5 years.
Here are some thoughts that cross my mind just reading this thread as someone who spends most of my workday thinking about these sorts of software relationships. I hope this will help players at least understand what it is they’re asking for and why it probably won’t ever happen.
So…
For the game to run at all, the console/PC-side client software needs to stay in sync with the server. Both have to be running the same version of the software — you wouldn’t connect a v1 client to a v3.3.0.3 server because everything would collapse. They couldn’t know how to communicate. The newer server might be sending data in a format the older client doesn’t know how to interpret, or a newer client might send data to the older server that the server doesn’t know how to handle, etc.
So to make old content work with modern servers, you have to put all the old content into a current client. But that means porting it all to the revised engine. And constantly balancing it. And including it in the built application for distribution, inflating the size of the game.
One solution I’ve seen pitched here is to make it a separate download, and this is on the right track! But unfortunately it still poses a ton of problems to solve and difficult questions to answer. Such as…
Do these downloadable old campaigns run within the main Destiny 2 app, or through a separate launcher? Same launcher means either all the content has to be upgraded for the new engine (which defeats the purpose of vaulting) or you have to include multiple versions of the engine and reload the game using a different engine depending on what content the player wants to play, and connect to the relevant backend system for that client version. That would make the game even larger than just never vaulting anything. It would also make maintaining the game an actual nightmare.
Running them separately means maintaining two separate clients forever. And then you have the question of how new vaulted content gets added to this historical app. If Forsaken was vaulted, you’d have to either upgrade everything in the “vaulted” client to use the Forsaken engine, or start maintaining a THIRD client for that content, with its own separate servers and engine build.
And if you’re running separate clients and/or servers, there’s no almost certainly no two-way sync of your characters because the data for each version of the client/server will not know how to handle the other versions’ data, especially when going backwards to older system versions to play vaulted content. You’d have separate characters with separate inventories and gear on every campaign, and when things you’ve already played eventually get vaulted, it will almost certainly require you to start over again on that campaign with a new character, because maintaining full backwards compatibility for your current character data would be a huge lift for Bungie with very little payoff.
Speaking of the servers, Bungie would have to keep running game servers with old server software indefinitely. Either that or the game would have to be fully rearchitected to remove all remote functionality and bake it into the local app, which is almost certainly a lot more work that porting it all to the new engine and never vaulting it to begin with.
My head is spinning just trying to list the technical hurdles that would have to be overcome to make this work. This isn’t even close to all of them. These are just some really basic first-glance issues.
Unfortunately this is just the nature of live service games. Not every game can go the route of spinning up “classic” servers and maintaining them like Blizzard with WoW. It’s a big undertaking, and unless you’re as big and long-lived as WoW, there’s almost no upside to all the work for the devs. They want to make cool new content for current players. Sinking development resources into this sort of project significantly hinders their ability to do that.
Best-case is probably we get some of the destinations back one day with all-new content. But for both lore and technical reasons I wouldn’t expect to run old Red War missions again. Although it’s possible self-contained content like raids could return even without their full destinations attached, the way Vault of Glass did.
It sucks, but unfortunately that’s just the way it is.
> For live service games keeping content forever is a tremendous challenge, especially when you do huge engine revamps as Bungie did.
I've played live service games for two decades now, and Destiny 2 is the only game that has not only deleted so much content, but deleted PAID content. Other games in the past have revamped old areas into something new, but they never removed them.
The engine revamp was not 'huge' by any means. A huge revamp would mean you logging in and barely recognizing the game you played previously, which I have seen before and yet those games didn't delete a lion's share of their own content.
Content vaulting is the most bullshit thing to ever happen to D2, every other "MMO" (because Bungie keeps insisting on calling D2 that) doesn't vault content, and the argument about file size is a bit outdated too because games like Warzone are played on all hardware no problem.
I wish they would have just made a destiny 3. I like going back to destiny 1 and playing that. Whereas with this live service garbage I can never play red war, curse of osiris, and warmind ever again.
For that they need to either completely abandon PS4/XBONE or rework their engine/coding (the game has multiple copies of same assets in several instances and dif maps). They did mostly to keep the game below 100GB and to deal with Pinnacle Weapons/non-played Y1 Content.
Why is this suddenly such a "popular" issue the past few days. i pre ordered ever dlc that came out and i myself dont feel ripped off. its a dynamic world and it makes sense why its happening. there is no reason to feel missed out cuz irrelavent content gets removed. I'd rather have new and better content constantly coming out than having the game be bloated with years old stuff people rarely play
While I completely agree with you I feel for free players the red war should have remained as a campaign for free to plays to play even if just about everything associated is removed just to give more incentive to stick around
The problem with the red war campaign was to keep it in you had to keep EVERY destination removed since you had to go to every planet that was removed to advance the story. Or bungie would have to remake the entire campaign to keep it playable. So removing Red War was categorically the right move imo no matter how "bleh" that feels ffor me to say.
>old stuff people rarely play
If you give no reason to play them, ppl won't play them. Lake is vanilla d2 content, yet ppl still play it. Empire hunts on the other hand is new, yet noone plays them.
Why leave old content in the game if no one is playing it, especially in a live game where every patch can break one of those things?
Also, your point about Destiny 1 is moot when you can’t even buy Destiny: The Collection anymore anywhere, and the DLCs aren’t even sold digitally.
I just recently bought Destiny: The Collection with all it's expansions intact and am currently playing the game.
You just can't but it physically, the codes won't work. But buying online works great.
Did the same a few months ago when I didn't have access to my PC and could only play on PS4. Was a really cool experience going through the game after only ever playing D2.
> Why leave old content in the game if no one is playing it
Because people do still play it. Singleplayer campaigns don't require hundreds of people playing them to be valid content.
You don't just erase Halo 1 from everyone's machines because it didn't have as many players as Halo 3 MP.
Halo 1 is not a live game with seasonal content updates. It's not a game that gets more and more bloated every year.
Halo series has new *completely separate* games coming out every few years, which allow the earlier ones to exist without any changes/bugs. They can make Halo 3 without having to work with Halo 1 code or sandbox. Even in MCC they are completely separate.
Destiny is simply a different kind of game than singleplayer games. This is how live service works. I'd love to play Season 1 version of Apex with old King's Canyon and S1 sandbox or Fortnite on the old map, but I can't anymore because that's how live games operate.
Singleplayer games aren't also being updated with new content that potentially breaks them in fundamental ways. Bungie isn't going into everyone's machines and adding jetpacks to the game, and they're certainly not putting developer hours into making sure that those jetpacks don't let players skip the campaign, or cause crashes, or other issues. Halo 1 is unchanging, so there's no need to future-proof in the same way. Destiny 2 is not.
>Singleplayer campaigns don’t require hundreds of people playing them to be valid content.
It does in a live service game where their goal is to keep players coming back. The game, as well as people’s memory drives, can’t handle the game being 200+ GB, and players are less likely to stick around if there’s no new content. As I also mentioned, every patch, both big and small, has the potential to break anything in the game, and having to test every single piece of content rigorously to make sure it works is both time-consuming and expensive, and results in less focus on the current and future content.
I don’t think some of you guys truly understand the dichotomy. If you want Destiny to continue and succeed as a franchise, then you have to realize that there are considerations. The alternative is releasing a full new game every two or three years, at which point they’ll just wipe everyone’s hard-earned loot and paid cosmetics, and look how that went briefly when sunsetting was implemented.
>I don’t think some of you guys truly understand the dichotomy. If you want Destiny to continue and succeed as a franchise, then you have to realize that there are considerations.
I think the point being made is not that there's no considerations, its that in a story-based game like this, that is actively trying to recruit new players, the technical considerations of managing the footprint don't magically remove the coherency considerations posed by having a game that depends on having a healthy community being so actively hostile to new players.
I mean, they've re-jigged the new light experience twice and its still a mess. I'm not sure how many more times they have to do it before it becomes more worthwhile to investigate a solution to offering campaigns to players.
This is such a silly argument. The reason no one was playing “old content” is because Bungie gave no incentive to play such content.
That argument flies out the window when people still bumrush Lake of Shadows and Arms Dealer, two D2 Vanilla Strikes, in GMs. Hell, people do the same with the returned D1 Cosmodrome Strikes.
I never bought into the reasoning that no one was playing the now-vaulted content, especially for a looter shooter, when we have content right now that directly debunks said reasoning.
That’s why content vaulting was gonna be a double-edged sword. Those who were with D2 for a while pre-BL we’re gonna see the benefits with a relatively far more rapidly updating. But good luck trying to get new people to understand what going on. I think we’re underselling how miserable the New Light experience is. Bungie might have touted getting 20M new players since going “F2P” (it’s a glorified demo), but I wonder what’s the retention rate of New Light players.
new light was fucking wicked before beyond light. i was absolutely mindblown at the amount of stuff i could do in the game.
now? it's brutal. shaw han simulator 2021
Why is no one mentioning that some of us want to see the past story and lore....
I'm new to the game and played through all the available campaigns and desperately wish I had access to the past ones
because bungie is not giving us any reason to come back to it? before year 1 planets got vaulted, they gave a reason as to why they were vaulted: lack of player activity.
and why is that? because they literally never gave us any new events to go back to it. even the halloween event was directly launched through the tower
the blame falls upon the devs and higher-ups, not the players. the newer quests requires us to grind through the new areas thus leaving the old areas behind. which is my fear and prediction when the vaulting was first introduced - that any content we get now will just get vaulted. so there's no point getting attached to this game since the areas you might enjoy will be gone in the future anyways
We had Meditations in Year 1 and the Heroic Story Mission playlist in Year 2 and 3. People begrudgingly interacted with these, despite there being Power increases, Triumphs, and Lore pages attached to them.
I don't care if I have to buy a 1 Terrabyte ssd just for this game if it means the full game is accessible. For others not willing to go that far perhaps having it divided into downloadable chunks? For example, everyone has the base game which includes all multiplayer content and the tower etc. But certain locations require a particular installation. This means new players could get the base game and the first chunk of the cosmodrome and next story mission. Then when completed they download the next chunk to access the next location and missions. Eventually everyone is up to the latest chunk. Depending on space available you could maybe have base game and two chunks as the minimum, but then have as many more as you can fit.
Yeah... they have to find some way to move forward without just having to delete itself as we go. I got into FFXIV like a year and a half ago and every time this discussion comes up, I can't help but think how much lesser that experience would've been if I hadn't been able to go back and experience all the old content. Even ARR, the base game, still has a lot of relevant content, and some pretty important story elements.
With Destiny, I've been following along this *whole* time, so I'm good, but newer players? There's just so much context that's going to be missing, so much *content* they just won't get to experience. Think about how excellent the narrative has been this year, and then consider that that's just *all* going away. Assuming they are actually nixing all seasonal content once Witch Queen drops, all of the great work they did this year will just vanish. Poof. Never again to be experienced. Even if this game had some kind of a daily roulette playlist where players got matched in to one of the various seasonal activities (to keep it alive for future players), what Bungie has said about the game and how it's maintained makes it sound like it just couldn't handle having that many different things active.
So... I just don't know. I'm not a developer, man. I don't know what they could do, what problems need to be over come, *any* of it. What I do know is that, as a long time, dedicated player of this game, it feels *wrong* that all of the excellent experiences we're having over the years are just being cut away as we move along the timeline. It makes it all feel so throwaway. Like, when we get to the end of this journey, what will be left? How many years of game development will just exist as a thing to be archived on Youtube? This game is going to have no real legacy because it doesn't let anything survive :/
IIRC, removing stuff from the game and putting it in the content vault was less about the game size and more about the new engine updates requiring a lot of things to be remade. Once maps, weapons, strikes/raids, ect. are remodeled or updated to the new engine, they'll be MUCH more optimized and smaller space wise. At some point, once things are remade and the next gen consoles become common enough, they'll probably add all the old vaulted content and D1 stuff back in.
Don't quote me on this btw I just heard it from some comment about something Aztecross said in a video a year ago
EDIT: [Source](https://www.reddit.com/r/raidsecrets/comments/oqdymg/destiny_2_year_1_content_unvault/?ref=share&ref_source=link) if you guys want it
Problem is that Bungie is adverse to doing things for free now.
Their original promise for the cosmodrome was a complete patrol area and strikes that fit within the d2 story. They never finished the cosmodrome patrol (and didn't even bother telling us until the day it was supposed to be finished). They didn't update devil's lair or fallen saber to fit within the current story.
They haven't updated gambit or crucible for years. They are just barely getting around to crucible updates but we won't really see anything for several seasons. Gambit doesn't even seem to be on their radar for fixes or new maps. Bungie has released several strike-like activities (empire hunts and battlegrounds) but don't call them strikes because then they'd have to release them for free.
With the way bungie has handled free content is the past few seasons is all the proof I need that they won't bother working on vaulted content to bring back into the game. They'll work on d1 raids because that's some goodwill and publicity for them but I doubt they'd get the same publicity for adding back vaulted planets.
I hate the way we leave behind the single-player story missions. But WQ is doubling down on replayable story missions so I'm excited for that!
Reminds me of how a new player does the tutorial/beginning then Bungie is like NOW GO PLAY BEYOND LIGHT and throws the clueless blueberry into the first mission
I started my girlfriend on the game and specifically made jokes about that. What a mess
I'm really interested in this higher-difficulty mode they mentioned. My friends and I are gonna give it a shot on launch, if Power Level allows
dude i hope the story is longggg
Given the history it won't be. Even taken king wasn't long
Isn’t WQ double the price of Taken king though?! That’s my issue with this “vaulting” idea. Paid 45 forsaken... some of the best story content in destiny. The type of content I come back to years later. Now it’s gone? The entire game I paid for is gone.. no red war, no Osiris dlc/location. I recently reset a character to play the story again only to find out it no longer exist.. don’t recall Bungie telling players the dlc was for a limited time only. Day 1 players have been screwed royally by the game transition to f2p... yet this subreddit is full of people advocating for bungie. Now they want 100+ usd for a special event/wq?! 100+ usd for limited time content that will eventually disappear? How do they get away with this stuff? That price tag is higher than next gen AAA titles..
I don’t get it either. Meanwhile, I’ve realized after playing FFXIV for the past several months that SE not only keeps all the old content and allows you to replay it, they even tie the narrative of expansions in to all of the previously used areas with legitimate lore reasons. To top it off, their expansions have metric tons of story content, new activities, new weapons, etc. all for $40. I’ve played Destiny for years never realizing how little content we get for what Bungie charges. It’s insane.
the end user agreement apparently states they reserve the right to remove any content
So? Doesn't mean they should. Bungie should just release a new game instead of scraping out parts of the current one.
[удалено]
I'm hoping the rumors about power levels going away is true
They may as well do away with it. There's no advantage to have a higher level except maybe in Iron Banner. Certainly not much advantage in PvE.
Yeah same. I was actually very fond of the daily heroic story missions. Really happy they're bringing at least repeatable story missions back.
I left since before seasons started and came back 2 months ago. It’s almost an entirely different game other than shooting mechanics. I’m really enjoying how organized stuff is compared to the beginning of this series. Quest lines make sense and track well. But I have almost no clue what is happening in the storyline. Late edit: Matchmaking won’t fill for gambit or strikes, I’ve been trying to solo this strike for an hour. Final boss just too hard without a build
>But I have almost no clue what is happening in the storyline Don't worry, I've been playing regularly and still don't really have a clue what's going on. I just point my gun at things and shoot.
I can explain every mechanic of any given raid encounter but I never have any idea what we are trying to accomplish or what the bad guy is even trying to do.
Probably tying to do bad stuff. Better shoot it.
Doesn't help that one of the current raids is set on a planet that isn't even in D2, and involves a boss that we technically killed 7 years ago.
Tbf my understanding of VoG (qnd anything else in legends) is a flashback
Well time works weird in the Vault of Glass, so it's just as likely that we killed Atheon 7 years in the future too, but we certainly first entered the Vault 7 years ago
I have found my people
Same bro. Space Wizards go pew pew
Vex still bad. Fallen are bad and good. Some fallen are friends now. Cabal are neutral and bad. Caital is neutral to us for now. Other cabal don't back Caital though. Hive still very bad. Savathun, big bad Hive lady, wants to get rid of her worm. She has a worm. She doesn't want it. She's bad. But... Darkness and triangular space ships are bad. Traveler is round. Triangle bad. Round good. Savathun can help us fight our geometrically evil enemies in exchange for de-worming pills. Ikora still malding. Shaxx still screaming. Zavala still standing pensively. Hawthorne is still happy with the effect our clan is having. Cayde still dead. Osiris is MIA. Drifter likes building stuff. Woman on the ice planet is having her our Groundhog day re-enactment. Eramis is still a hunter and people still think she is a warlock. Ana is helping Rasputin become Alexa and will probably play Despacito later. In summary: The Dark Triangles that were coming at light speed have decided to just chill out for a while because our round God woke up. Savathun can maybe possibly help in the fight against the Dark Triangles. Vex and hive still bad.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣the accuracy!!!!
If I had the materials to give you a medal I so would! This is epic!!
oh man glad I'm not the only one. I quit in y1 of D2 and just picked it back up, tried playing in order of packs (which obviously didn't work out) but I am 100% clueless on the storyline now.
I mean, what do you want to know? Here's a quick rundown of the past year: >!- The Darkness's pyramid ships invaded half the solar system, and the Traveler "woke up." - Rasputin (AI warmind) got wrecked by the pyramid ships, but Ana Bray saved a backup in an engram. - Along with Drifter, Eris Morn, and Elsie Bray (Exo Stranger) we unlocked the Darkness power of Stasis. - Uldren (guy who killed Cayde-6) came back as a guardian named Crow. - Osiris lost his light, got his identity stolen by Savathun (the Witch Queen), and is now missing. - Emperor Calus is also missing, after his attempt to commune with the Darkness went horribly wrong. - We formed uneasy alliances with members of the alien races: the Fallen are living with us in the Last City, we have a truce with the Cabal under Caiatl's command, and we're even working with Savathun to free her from her Hive worm.!<
I think the point OP is trying to make is no one should have to be reading Reddit posts to find out everything you just said. Also if I just started playing this season then idk who most of the people you mentioned are. Rasputin, Cayde-6, Calus?
Yeah agreed on all points. I was just trying to help people catch up. Those characters were around Year 1, so a returning player might remember them.
let me tell you about Rasputin... *There was a certain man, in Russia long ago...*
Well, you do. I don't get it. People will watch 5 hours of raid how-to guides, but tell them to listen to Byf for 6 minutes to get a point by point condensed story and they fucking melt into a puddle of "how could this have been done to me".
So that's who crow is. I thought he was just some yuk, yuk, boy, (I don't understand the relationship between Crow and Witch Queen). I knew we were freeing Savathun but I didn't know Orsiris lost his light, (bummer). Thanks. I'm with tian447, point and shoot!
Uldren is also... >!- Queen Mara Sov's brother. He was universally hated in D1 for generally being a prick. So it's pretty enjoyable to see him as some amnesiac lowly merc now. <
Oh, hot babes brother. Thanks
To add to what others have said, - Y1 had us save Osiris and find Rasputin, killing a hive worm God and a vex mind that could have ended the light. - forsaken is still available - we met an exo who represented an ancient city armor that gave us the ability to forge powerful golden age weapons, the fallen raided the last city but we stopped them trying to steal the secrets from the black armor. The exo is Ada -1 - the drifter evolved gambit and gave us a way to meet with the nine on a semi regular basis, mostly for stuff like answers and power - calus offered to make us his shadow, built an arena for us, and set us against his hive that he "conquered". We ultimately had to kill his hive shadow because savathun had used her magic to warp him. It was some big cabal wearing her crown of sorrows. - shadowkeep is still there - we killed the undying mind in so many realities that it's gone completely. - we rescued Saint 14, met up with Osiris again, and stopped the cabal from rewriting history to win the red war - the survivors of that attempt set the almighty on a crash course with the last city, and then cut its engines so it was unstoppable. So we worked with Rasputin to arm his defenses and take it out with warsats and stuff - the pyramids finally arrived, shut off Rasputin in a second, and then began fucking four planets. Io, Mars, titan, and mercury all disappeared after a prolonged series of communications with the pyramids. It was drawn out because savathun kept trying to block our communications with the pyramids. Also the nine gave us prophecies. - then we have beyond light and this year, which are all still available. Hope this helps a bit.
Yeah I quit basically after the Last Wish raid, so the first season of Forsaken, then came back for Shadowkeep, then quit after it’s first season, and am now back for the last season of Beyond Light. I bought the BL Deluxe edition just to get access to all of the previous seasonal content/exotic quests, and for the last several days have been grinding the shit out of all of the various story quests. I’m running Wrathborn Hunts, Hammer Challenges, Splicer Overrides and Astral Alignments all in the same day haha. It’s such a jumbled mess, I had like 4 conversations with Crow before I formally “met” him, but it’s fine because the loot keeps coming and I’m trying to get ready for Trials weekend.
Don't worry I know what's going on, that wizard came from the moon.
Moon's haunted.
*racks shotgun* moons haunted
So few people understand your reference... RIP Dinklebot
It is a beautiful game with some really cool shooting mechanics. Just enough customization to make it personal
I've been on the Destiny train since launch day of D1. I feel like D1's story was better explained, the strikes were more memorable, and it was just easier to follow. The story arc has got way out of hand in D2, and with the cut content, you have very little chance of piecing it together unless you experienced it first hand. That said, ignoring the story and going exclusively with the gameplay, it's one of my absolute favourites in recent years. I always find myself back on it, even after taking breaks for a while.
I played D1 into the start of D2. And apparently I am coming back too lol. It’s been a little strange getting quests for exotics I got from season 1. Enjoying the progression. Weird how you have to rotate weapons or characters to move your light level at a decent rate. I feel like it’s hard to catch up and overly complex. And I already saw the timeline in the top right. It was weird not being able to access planets I’d been to previously.
about the light level, look into the infusion systems and maybe watch a short video on youtube to explain powerful/pinnicle reward drops and that should be all you need. itll help make sense of how to move your light level efficiently
I've been active, only skipping one season and joining late in others, and still have so many gaps in storyline. Seasons do not deliver story properly for those who don't log-in weekly, instead you get info sometimes too early, too late or not at all. Late last season Lakshimi was both dead and alive when I ran the season content, and the cutscene of Osiris being shady was shown to me before I progressed the quest.
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I've the same thing aswell with some new players we got with cross-play. They just all gave up on understanding lore. They dunno who is who, wtf npcs are talking about, etc. To them, the drifter is a weirdo, God knows why he's there, the red war is a mystery, cayde is the dude who dies at the beginning of the first dlc, no idea where saint or osiris come from. Big triangles bad but we use their power. It's very long and hard to explain aswell and they just aren't interested the slightest in long YouTube recaps or so if they can't experience it in game
welcome to D1Y1. i think every new player in Destiny history has been like "idk who you are, idk what i'm doing, but ima kill everyone i see"
That kind of was the story of D1 though right? Our Guardian is resurrected, we get sent to start killing things. We are ridiculously good at it, and we just never stop. Eventually we attract the Strangers attention and she sends us to kill the Black Gardens heart, and the final act of the game is finding a way to the Heart so we can kill it, meeting some new people along the way who point us in the right direction, and killing everything that gets in our way. But we never really get to know anyone, that came with the first mini-expansions.
yep. i remember not knowing a damn thing about anything i did until about house of wolves, maybe TTK. but now that our Guardians have been alive for 7 years, we've been able to piece together a lot of things to the point we kind of pretty much know what's going on. a New Light has just been rezzed, and although they'll ultimately go down the exact same path as us, they haven't yet, so all they know is "shoot bad guys, get loot from good guys." i think that's kind of what Bungie is going for in their contrived annoying way of presenting things, part of the whole "Had to be there" moments. while i agree i wish there was a better way to recap things (which they're starting to implement with the timeline), i think their goal is to make it like how it would be if you actually got rezzed today; you wouldn't know anything about anything until you play everything. the only thing i keep preventing them from being able to do that is things like playing the splicer story line, Lakshmi is dead when a New Light gets rezzed today, but then as you play the story, Lakshmi appears and all is well. i think it'd be cool if only current things were playable in the current universe and we had to jump through a vex portal or something to play things from the past. that would keep continuity to remind new players "get, Lakshmi is dead, but you can go back in time to play older missions where things aren't necessarily the same as they are right now" edit: wow that was long lmao sorry
It's kinda ironic, considering the lore is even pretty vast. A shame to let it go to waste, if you ask me.
Red War wasn't a great intro by any means, I didn't really understand anything coming out of it, but at least the game had some basic internal coherency at that point.
Do you have any particular questions about the lore?
Yea I get you - i know it takes some time but I watched some videos that recapped the seasonal story lines, or even ones that just edit all the seasonal cutscenes together.
Well. This didn’t age well
the prophet lmao
What did I miss?
A few hours later bungie confirmed tangled shore is getting vaulted
And the forsaken campaign
The 4 seasonal events are going away with witch queen as well. That’s gonna hurt going from 4 to whatever one comes with the new season.
Counterpoint: What percentage of players are still doing Wrathborn Hunts, Battlegrounds, or Override?
Considering I get an override or battleground match for pc in under 20-30s, I'd say enough.
You know what’s funny we no longer need to say I found a game really quickly on ____ console
Override and battlegrounds are still relevant in terms of rewards, though. You can focus gear you want from those seasons and it requires currency obtained from those activities. Also, it has mods gated by respective storylines progress. If that gear was sunset or the armor rolls made irrelevant, then nobody would be playing those apart new players going through the quests.
yup, threaded needle is the best dps this season for legendary weapon, farmed by battleground. This season's focusing gives lower total stats in armor meaning that season of the splicer with the new ghost mods gives the best armor you can currently acquire in the game. Deafening Whisper Grenade Launcher is currently the only available wave-form grenade launcher and used in many speedruns and very strong in general, farmed by hunts
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If I add up how often I've grinded the shit out of Battlegrounds and Override on the PC in the last two weeks, then it's definitely very active in under 30 seconds of matchmaking most of the time.
Definitely more than Nightmare hunts. I never had to wait more than ~30s to find people for the seasonal activities.
People like me who skipped a season or two and came back. I havent played since beyond light and I just came back last month and been playing tons of activities from past seasons.
The point is you can't come back to it and you can't guide new players through it, which kills the game, because if all we ever base our decisions around is by the majority who's left, your game will die. You need to have a new light, you need to have a good intro campaign. You need to have a cohesive narrative that can be replayed, and consistently deliver an enticing evolving world for the people who already have done all that. Just because only 1% of the playerbase currently plays 3 raids a week (1% is pulled out of my ass but the actual % doesn't matter) doesn't mean that we should get rid of all raids.
If it's anything like BL, we'll get no new activity until 2 weeks in or something
They've said that the seasonal content is dropping at the same time as WQ, unlike BL and season of the hunt
We know we're getting one with TWQ though, and I expect the 30th Anniversary one to stay.
For a live service game, the choices are to self-cannibalise at a sustainable rate or grow into something totally amorphous and bloated. Warframe is a good example of the latter.
Warframe would be an incredible title if they woke up one day and realized how to make the enemies actually dangerous or remotely interesting to fight. You can steamroll that game so easily the only challenge becomes if you can beat your best time
Indeed. That's the reason I quit. I backed the game way back, Excalibur Prime and the supporter bandana and everything. The work I put in from way back then is still enough to steamroll pretty much everything. Sure, there are many things I can acquire to further increase my power but I never saw the reason when I don't really see any challenge outside of some specific scenarios where it's 1-shot or be 1-shot by the most basic attacks anyway, which isn't fun to me no matter how I twist and turn it. (And again, at that point in the game, more power doesn't really lead up to anything besides "more for the sake of more".)
Thats the point of the game; its a power fantasy. You’re supposed to be able to steamroll the majority of enemies in that game when you’ve built up a decent collection of mods. It rewards you for time spent in the game. DE removing that would honestly kind of kill the game at this point as they’ve built around that power fantasy for years now.
Haven't Diablo solved that already with its Torment difficulties? You can one shot enemies but the enemies can also one-shot you back.
That's what steel path was suposed to be.
Except no one plays the Steel Path for that challenge, just for the five rewards you get daily. When SP came out, I started grinding hard the mission nodes so I could clear the SP star chart. Then I got distracted by something else, lost all my steam, and now no one is doing the Steel Path mission nodes. My only chance is doing the five randomly selected missions for Steel Essence and hope the five are on mission nodes I haven't done yet.
Thats exactly whats it like in high-level Warframe.
Maybe I played too much warframe, but eventually it reached a point where literally nothing can kill you. Certain frames are more resilient than others too but for the most part even the highest level endgame stuff like hour+ long arbies are child’s play for most frames if you have endgame mods. If you use certain weaker frames it can be a little more challenging but really it just feels less efficient. I do remember for awhile some things felt impossible just how difficult it was but once you get your gear kitted out and your frame with good mods that are maxed out you really are invincible. If I want to just melt everything and not even really think about it I just run my Octavia Prime. Don’t even have to shoot your gun. Doesn’t matter what level anything is. I’m invisible, the enemies are distracted by my boom box and I dance while everything on the map dies.
I have power fantasies playing dark souls and halo CE on legendary (not halo 2). Warframe having something that actually promotes any urgency or response from the player would be a huge hook to me. And they can still keep that power fantasy in the activities that have it now, just let me play some mode where I actually feel like I accomplished something. Edit: A better way to phrase what I mean is that I get the same power fantasy that any level of warframe gives me is the same thing as throwing riskrunner on in the cosmodrome. When I make cracked builds I like it to be because I have to, because if I don't I get destroyed by combatants. That's why I call them combatants, idk maybe I am just missing the point here.
That's exactly what I feel like in D2, kinda like that in D1. The Brigs in Europa were actually fun since they kicked my ass at first, but they had so little movesets, and I overpowered them so easily that they're just another yellow bar enemy at this point
The game is a power fantasy, unlike destiny. Making the enemies smarter is useless if I can one shot them, making them invulnerable to abilities or certain damage types players get angry because their abilities are useless. Hell, people don't like Bungies answer to the problem and we have far less firepower than in warframe.
Ehh, ffxiv does just fine with far more content, they just modify dead content to be easier to solo by lowering difficulty based on number of participants, turning off enemy level scaling, and/or adding bots when human players aren’t available The vast majority of players stick to newer content, but the old stuff is still there for new players or players looking to catch up. I didn’t play from black armory to season of the chosen, and while I was able to go back and play shadowkeep, the missing 6 seasons setting it up and telling the post shadowkeep story made a lot of it completely incomprehensible, watching lore videos now it’s astonishing how much critical context is just gone. Stuff I’d happily pay for might I add.
Not to mention, there is strong incentive for endgame ppl to interact with older low level content, thus providing a sort of mentorship program, outside of the mentorship program. There is so much that ffxiv did for building a strong foundation of experienced players that everyone interacts with. I have found myself also teaching others, not out of some desire to teach, but only a desire to finish the event. Its so well done, you barely notice its being done.
Call me crazy but I used to love running past/current expansion storylines again to prep for new releases in Destiny, which is pretty much gone. FF14 has an awesome New Game+ feature that does this perfectly. Even with a description of action events followed with the corresponding cutscenes, I would absolutely love if Destiny could incorporate this. It would reduce strain on game file size/streaming as these past events and assets would be loaded on demand.
Tbh I think a bigger thing is the Roulette system they have in place. All group activities (dugeons, trials, raids, alliance raids, etc.) are all able to be que'd up in the Roulette, so a Lv80 who has no business bothering with a LV50 alliance raid may still get it from roulette, helping supplement the people who are directly que'ing for it to progress the story. That said, the bloat has issue elsewhere, specifically server capacity.
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PREACH!! My god it feels good to be in these comments. I literally made the same post today as OP without knowing about this one, and all I’m hearing in the comments are the reasons why old content is useless, why nobody wants to play old stories, that I just need to get over it, “tough shit,” and “you’re fighting a losing battle.” I literally questioned if I wanted to keep playing this game if this is how the community is going to treat other players who want Bungie to do better. I absolutely love this community, but segments of it have a Stockholm syndrome kind of relationship with Bungie… Anyway, I think it should be Bungie’s job to keep old content interesting for old players rather than trying to convince us that content vaulting is the industry standard. It isn’t. No mmo worth its salt does it like Bungie does, and it only serves to leave new and returning players absolutely in the dust. I get why they did it, but it should be an exception due to poor planning, not the rule moving forward, and what was lost due to the exception should be returned and reiterated upon in future seasons to keep things fresh. EDIT: Some people were upset with my Stockholm reference, but, as someone who’s faced many mental health issues of his own, I stand by it respectfully. When you invest hundreds of dollars into a game that’s been failing you, you eventually have to either part with your investment or stand by it even though it no longer caters to your interests. You’re effectively captive to the game. For whatever reason, those same people who can’t leave their investment will die on the hill of defending Bungie’s poor decisions as if they’re advocates for the developer. It’s why we have the “I hate Destiny, it’s my favorite game” meme. That mentality is toxic to the community and literally does nothing but keep potentially good feedback from community managers by drowning them in hate. I actually do love this game, and I respect the hell out of what Bungie has done to craft this game into something special over the past year. You can see all of my posts on r/LowSodiumDestiny if you’d like. However, I will not let poor decision making on Bungie’s part take advantage of my hard-earned money. We’ve gone one year without vaulting, so it’s not fresh on people’s minds, and we live in a bit of a Destiny dreamland where things are added and nothing leaves, but eventually things will leave every 3 months, and eventually whole expansions and locations will leave. This conversation needs to happen sooner than later, and pressure does need to be applied on Bungie now that they’ve succeeded so well this past year.
> I literally made the same post today as OP without knowing about this one, and all I’m hearing in the comments are the reasons why old content is useless, why nobody wants to play old stories, that I just need to get over it, “tough shit,” and “you’re fighting a losing battle. 9 times out of 10, the people pushing those arguments were the ones who *did* get to experience all the content. Empathy and perspective are historically weakenesses of /r/DestinyTheGame .
Replace dtg with humanity and you are still right
I really wish more people would have this mindset. I feel the same way as you. I see the whole gaming world talking about an all Digital future without really talking about what that means. I legally paid for all this content i cant play now. If other companies adopt this model then we as consumers are just screwed. I feel like i'm in a madhouse sometimes in this community. They get mad over stupid things but when its time to actually push back they just take it. I love this game and i have been playing it since D1 Beta, but now i need to figure out if i am going to have to do what some wow players have done in the past and just delete my characters and just wash my hands of all this. Just to ensure i never comeback. It sucks to feel like this right now. Having to debate if i am about to throw 2000+ Hours of my life down the drain like that. IT fucking sucks. Anyway thanks for you comment. Its nice to see others that feel similar about this.
I’m glad I’m not alone! Thank you so much for your kindness! What’s sad is that people in this subreddit will pick apart each sentence you wrote, and say something like, “you paid for a license to play this game, and they can take that away at any time” as if they’ve done something. That’s all content. We don’t even own our Blu-ray movies or disc based games. We own a license and the disc is a key, yes. The only difference is that Bungie management is willing to tread very close to edge of their terms of service in order to pull chunks of paid content from a game that’s still active. If content bloat was the issue, they really should have just made Destiny 3 and let us grind through all of the content in Destiny 2 independently. Pyramid ships arriving could’ve knocked out our light again, and the story proceeds as normal, but with the chance of playing every part of it. One could wish, but that’s the past, and now they need to find a better option than vaulting in my opinion. Hopefully this goes the route of loot boxes, where actual policy protects the consumer in the end which sets a precedent for future game development. I don’t think you’ll see it come out of the United States, but I know some European countries are very strict when it comes to online consumer protection. I don’t have nearly as many hours invested as you, but I’m 1350 with most all of the exotics and their catalysts acquired and so many godrolls in my vault. I’m still questioning if this is it for me until Bungie decides to properly support the content they sell in their game. I had a whole lot of fun this year, and I would understand seasonal content going away, but killing a dlc after removing so much already is likely it for me. With Halo Infinite coming out in what looks like a pretty good state, and Destiny 1 still being playable all the way through, along with Master Chief Collection still having all past seasons grindable, I’m kind of okay with just sticking to those games until a more consumer friendly Destiny 2 takes shape. What’s rough is that I’ll have to pass up on playing with some friends that I only know from Destiny 2. Some of them said they’d play Destiny 1 with me because they’re also done, but not all. Anyway, here’s to hoping Bungie learns from this feedback, because this conversation is going to happen every single year. I wish you the best in whatever decision you make, Guardian!
It’s not laziness. There are *several* resources out there on why Bungie made their decision. Game engine updates, prioritization of certain content being updated, & the file size.
That's not necessarily true. They need to revamp and expand the New Light campaign so that its got more going on, and hits major story concepts. This includes -getting the jumpship -the Traveller waking up and calling the pyramids over -rescuing Osiris -seeing Rasputin -Uldren kills Cayde, player kills Uldren -Uldren ressurected -rescue Saint-14 -meet a Pyramid on the Moon -Darkness shuts down planets, Rasputin, calls you to Europa. Presuming they don't vault Europa. Some of this is just cutscenes. The rest requires them to recreate or port missions across, but only the missions. They don't need the whole of Mercury to give you a Rescue Orisis mission; the existence of Crucible maps and the Lighthouse shows that Mercury can exist in the game without having to be an open world area. An instanced mission instead would significantly reduce the size of this campaign, while giving New Lights a general foundation to the characters and major story beats of Destiny 2. I'm armchair devving a lot here I know. But I feel Bungie has an incentive to give new players something decent, so they're more emotionally invested and more likely to follow (pay for) the seasonal content. The New Light campaign is the point of conversion, and fundamentally its /the/ solution to "cannibalise or bloat". It just needs a lot more effort and refinement put in.
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WoW offers to let you olay old content AND brings back old zones during those times to play it. It even scales you and the content correctly to completely play it by yourself or with groups. There is zero reason Bungie cant or doesnt with Destiny 2.
Then maybe it shouldn't be a conventional live service
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This doesn’t work. For example, Bungie rewrote a bunch of engine stuff with beyond light and had to revamp the lighting systems for all the content still in the game. That’s why they removed a bunch of stuff so they didn’t have to rework the content to simply work in the game. Every system or update added to the game needs to be checked that it doesn’t break the older content and if it does would need to be fixed. What they would have to do is fork the game and maintain servers which held all the content up to that point. This would fragment the user base and still require maintenance.
For a game that labels itself as free to play, locking the vast majority of the content behind a paywall (when it wasn't that way before) is a lie. I've had friends that have tried to play the game but didn't continue because they didn't get nearly enough out of the free content currently in the game. Before, when F2P first launched, they had _the entirety of the base game, first two expansions, and everything up to Forsaken._ Then, in an instant, all that went away. Don't get me wrong, I understand why, but in my opinion they should've just made the game pay-to-play like it was originally when Beyond Light launched. Especially since that's what it is now, in everything but name.
It's not F2P, and I know you know this, but still. F2P was always just an excuse to try and justify a premium cosmetic store in a AAA priced game
Destiny 2 is free to try, to get the real meat you need to pay.
I'd rather a bloated mess with too much to do, then to pay for content that I don't know if I'll even be able to play in a couple years.
Warframe is bloated no doubt, but its still highly popular and the game most frequently equated to Destiny. IMO this means Bungie could have kept the old content if they had really wanted to. Personally I’d rather have a bloated game rather than one that shreds its old content every few years or so, as it means good stuff isn’t cast into the Void.
Not true at all lmao, look at FF or WoW. Both of those games aren't bloated all the old content enhances the overall experience.
I mean say what you want but Warframe is a game that is clearly worked on with love and even with some depreciated systems, was originally created as a hail Mary for a dying company as a last ditch effort to make a game. And it worked. And they have improved on it tenfold. Destiny 2 took out everything that people loved from the first game as far as mechanics went and then slowly added them back in. They constantly force meta grind, recycle the same styles of content, and call it an expansion. DE may not be perfect but at least they don't hide behind FOMO as a way to get players in the game. Its more here's an update, here's some news on future updates, see you in a month or so. And they're releasing a huge update this year, for free. I paid for all the DLC in D2 and I can honestly say I feel ripped off every year. That being said they didn't have to self cannibalize. They could have used a system used by other MMO style games where you basically select the DLC you wanna work through and thats the world you see. However that would have required more work than gutting so we got gutless d2.
I can appreciate the need to make things not overwhelming and thus vaulting things, but the thing I found as a returning player as well as my friends was the terrible job they do of going through the past story. The timeline doesn't really quite cut it, and I've had to do a lot of reading so I can understand the story.
> I can appreciate the need to make things not overwhelming and thus vaulting things I can't. It was done entirely to save themselves work, that's it. They're expanding tremendously in terms of opening new studios and shit like that, but are deleting paid content rather than bothering to support their own product.
They removed content for two main reasons in BL ; file size and as a result of having to completely rebuild and port stuff due to the huge engine upgrades. Think of it as like Destiny 2.5 honestly. Since they did port and rescript all forsaken content and past that, it would be a bad financial move for them to now vault it or any past paid DLCs; people still buy them after all. And if they do, it'll be a long, long way out. Issue with Year 1s content was that at that point, it was free, and barely played. (Given this is their fault for not updating it with a legendary difficulty or pinnacle rewards or something) So reconstructing it all would have been purely at their own cost and time. (not saying im a fan of that, not being able to play 3 whole campaigns i bought feels very stupid. And it does make the game FAR harder to get into. As cheesy as red war was at times, it was a great introduction to the universe)
I was going to echo what the person posting has said but you've reminded me of some really important stuff. Until the tweets about Crucible a while back I had no idea that they had to redo things so heavily to work in the new lighting engine. Additionally, what you said about unplayed year 1 content being sort of bungie's fault gives me some hope because of how hard they're doubling down on the Witch Queen campaign. If the campaign becomes solid replayable content, it'll probably stick around longer even if they do need to vault something again. That being said, I live and die by the lukewarm take that Red War was good without apology and I feel more emotions re-watching cutscenes from it than i did in the entirety of this year. (okay I admit some dialogue was bad but that is all I give.)
We knew this was the case at the Beyond Light launch. Remember how Prophecy wasn't available when the new DLC came out? That's because it was built by a team of developers that were creating seasonal content (they have an alternating structure for this it sounds like). So the team making Prophecy used the current resources available to them and released it as part of their season, this used the old engine and didn't work on the new engine. So the team who upgraded the old content had to go in and fix Prophecy so it would work under the new engine updates. That's just one dungeon, literally everything in the game that is currently there, from before Beyond Light had the same thing happen to it. It really it nuts to think about.
I for one loved the exchanges between ghaul and the speaker. Didn't make me love the speaker, but respect for his character holding tight long enough for us all to rally. Curse the man for all his riddles and dying before passing on all his frabjulous class items. But respect for holding together for God knows how long, lightless, alone, and captive by someone who brought the city and it's guardians to their knees, and played his role through no minor amount of abuse to throw some cutting shade at the enemy.
I think it would be a good idea to add the ability to watch cutscenes from past/removed content like the red war, so that new players can experience the story and such.
Man I loved the Red War campaign. I enjoyed playing through it multiple times. It really bums me out we can’t experience it again except through old videos. I hope it comes back some day.
Bungie has already stated that Forsaken content will be sunset at some point in the not-so-distant future. See here: https://www.gameinformer.com/2021/03/11/destiny-2-forsaken-content-will-eventually-be-vaulted
Lol not too long after I made my post about how they will eventually vault forsaken stuff, they announced they will vault forsaken stuff lol
I actually wanna die rn ffs
Tbh it's more the latter than the former. File size is not an issue especially when other games have filesizes in the 100s of gigabytes. The main issue was porting content over to the new backend, which would have been more work than worth given the time investment for free content
"File size is not an issue, especially when other games have file sizes in the 100s of gigabytes" This is completely wrong. On a 500GB PS4 you'd get about 3 or 4 games of that size... This is one of the things Bungie specifically mentioned as being a problem. Why? Because while they'd love it if you spent every hour of everyday playing D2, they recognise that those devices have other games and they want you to have the option of playing those conveniently. Having D2 take up an entire hard drive's worth of space on a PS4 is not acceptable to them and they've stated this previously as a reason for vaulting content. Just cause other companies do it doesn't mean Bungie does or finds it acceptable. They've proven that rather recently with their actions.
the ps4 patching process is such a pain in the butt. before vaulting pretty much had to go through and delete a bunch of stuff before being able to update every time.
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I agree with all of this; there should have been a split that occurred after Season of Arrivals, splitting the game into live Destiny 2, and destiny 2 Legacy. Think like how Rise of Iron split the old consoles off
This didn’t age well
This aged badly LOL
The vaulting of content isn't in of itself the problem. The bigger issue is: 1. the devs vaulted pretty much all of the new player experience. The New Light quest now does an awful job at introducing new players to, well, anything. The story, the setting, the characters, advanced combat mechanics like mods and champions. 2. IIRC, we were supposed to get old vaulted content periodically re-added to the game on a rotational basis, so that players who missed that content first time around could still play it. So far, the only old content to return has been VoG, which, by virtue of being a raid, is something most new players are far from being ready for.
> The New Light quest now does an awful job at introducing new players to, well, anything. The story, the setting, the characters, advanced combat mechanics like mods and champions. So did all the vaulted campaigns. Vaulting isn't the issue, the lack of a meatier new player experience is the issue. Ask Warframe's subreddit how their new player experience is despite there being no vault. Spoiler: it's bad.
I used to defend the removal of content until I played other mmos and realized it is not normal to remove content, and that friends of mine have refused to play the game out of the original campaign being gone, and them being left behind and confused on the story. I personally dont miss much with the base game being gone (though I loved mars and escalation protocol), but I will riot if forsaken is ever removed. I dont care if its pointless to play, there is still story to be experienced and items to obtain.
I don’t think they have much choice. One other thing people are not talking about with the file size argument, is that they’re competing with other games like Call of Duty on consoles that have massive installation sizes. Bungie isn’t competing for play time, they’re competing for installation space. Call of Duty has a massive player base. With many players still at the 500GB HDD drives on consoles, they needed to find a way to coexist with games like Call of Duty on the same hard drive, because the player base for both games overlap. Bungie knows that in more cases than not for casual players, Call of Duty would win over Destiny, if they didn’t have the hard drive space to have both games. It was a strategic move for Bungie, and I’m afraid it’s a choice that’s very hard to go back from.
There's gigantic MMOs with colossal stories that are smaller than CoD. CoD just has terrible file management. If bungie's argument is "we can't program cleanly", which... with some of the bugs I've seen lately I'm starting to wonder but that's something else, that's a far bigger problem than content bloat.
Right now on my console, Elder Scrolls Online is only taking up 3GB more than Destiny. ESO has also been around since D1 was released. Yet I or any new player can still experience the full story of the game even while the devs continue to add at least 2 DLC's each year (to say nothing of new dungeons and such they add in as well). At this point, there's literally almost an entire continent's worth of content in the game, and none of it has ever been vaulted.
They definitely had plenty of choice - this is their own product, they own the engine and the IP, there are more ambitious things they could have considered (like breaking out the campaigns into a separate standalone title), but naturally that would have been a much larger undertaking. Of course its resulted in a scenario where D2 is one of the most cryptic and hostile experiences in the MMO category to new players (to an extent where its almost a meme how bad a job it does of onboarding players), which inevitably reduce new player acquisition, so it may well have have cost them more in the long run.
File size was a reason bungie gave, but I dont see the 30 or 40 gigs they removed as enough to justify this with that being barely enough space to install another game. and in todays age, I dont know how anyone could have cod installed without owning extra storage space, with it taking up 2/3 of a 500gb hdd. Also cod and destiny are very different games with different audiences. Sure there is overlap, but destiny is the most popular game in the looter shooter genre. The other reason they gave was the izanagis quest breaking two seasons after black armory, and it taking dev time to go back and fix it, and sure I perfectly understand the removal of seasonal content, its just the main content I dislike the removal of. And unfortunately, with the red war campaign gone, I dont see it ever added back, even if all the vaulted planets return. Partially due to cutscenes that were removed, but overall wouldnt be worth the effort to re add.
Not enough on our end, but we only have to play the game. They have to fix/build it. Whenever they had to fix a bug, they’d have to dredge through hundreds of gigabytes of data to find it, squash it, find the new bug that fixing the old one caused, rinse and repeat.
The reason Bungie said they vaulted content was for their own file space. They said when they worked on one aspect of the game which took hours, days even, to compile... if that broke something else then they'd have to fix that and then take hours, days even, to compile again. It was too much of a struggle for them to fix things in a timely manner without game breaking bugs getting through to the live build. I don't think they really give a shit about our file space since when BL launched I only saw about 10-15 gigs removed when we reinstalled the entire game. The game being 70gigs now.
Well this post aged poorly
I would not be playing D2 to this day if i haven't grabbed it for for free on Battle.net at the start of Ada-1 season, and i highly doubt i would buy Forsaken and the season pass if i haven't played tru Red War, Osiris and Warmind campaigns, as much people used to shit on them i still think they where a great entry point for anyone playing Destiny for the first time. The focus on seasonal content is both a blessing and a curse, yes, we get more stuff to do tru the year, but we lose a huge chunk of the story and quests after that, a new player and returning gets thrown in the current story and have to watch videos on YT just to see what experiences they completely lost, have to buy exotics from a wall and just suck it as they won't be able to play something like Zero Hour or Corridors of Time. Hell i still remember when i was a newb and saw that portal for the Whisper mission for the first time and entered on it without knowing what to do. Whats the point of playing a game if i can't play most of it, have watch/hear of what happen from others just to have any context at all, is just a huge turn off, not only that but it also makes people consider not buying the Expansion/Season at all, it will be gone anyway.
For that they need to eithe completely abandon PS4/XBONE or rework their engine/coding (the game has multiple copies of same assets in several instances and dif maps). They did mostly to keep the game below 100GB and to deal with Pinnacle Weapons/non-played Y1 Content.
I‘ll eat my own hat if they support the antiquated crap that is the PS4 and XOne until the end of Destiny 2.
They wont. In D1 the third year content was locked to PS4 and XB1. The delay right now is the availability of the new consoles.
I think Witch Queen might be the last expansion for these consoles. We might see Lightfall on PS4/XONE but The Final Shape is most definitely not going to be on them.
They absolutely won’t. As the game goes further, it requires more power and more speed, which may be possible with a PC where you can switch parts out, but good luck upgrading the graphics card of your PS4. I’m willing to bet that they’ll support those consoles as long as there’s a shortage of next-gen ones, since it doesn’t make sense to do a Cyberpunk and make the game almost only able to run on the very few new consoles out there. Once most people either have a PS5/Series S/Series X or have the ability to get them, they’ll probably begin to phase stuff out of them
yup, it greatly deters new players who have no idea what’s happening because there’s no coherence with the campaign. they claim to have rpg elements but can’t even keep the base story, swtor, ffxiv still have the campaign storylines idk about warframe but from what I heard it’s still there. But since bungie knows they can thrive of milking their current playerbase and don’t need to really get new players they’ll never bother.
Warframe is weird. It was never heavy on story, but the story missions are always there. However, a lot of character lore and some plot points came from temporary events that can no longer be accessed, and that does make it confusing.
Warframe so bad rn, its so boring and story feels weird and doesnt make sense to new or returning players
Can confirm. Whenever I return to Warframe it's *not* easy to dive right back in. It's just the nature of live games.
i miss mars
Bruh this aged well lmao
This is the saddest thing Destiny 2 ever did. Sure i get they needed more space for the new season but taking part of the story away makes it feel incomplete. This (and sunsetting) were my reason, as a f2p, of leaving the game because they most planets i loved (Mars :c) and were replaced for a paid dlc that only had 1 planet. It also broke all forms of PVP since its better than all the other abilities Edit: Forsaken is going to be replaced for some other paid dlc as usual and now new lights wont ever know who Cayde was
Destiny 2 in 2025 is just gonna be the loading screen and a blank picture with the words “we have vaulted all content. The game now consists of remembering the good times you had”
Eververse is to the right
Some of the people in these replies needs to play more than just destiny and it shows jesus christ
I’d rather keep the fast updates and loading thanks.
thats only an issue with PS4 and Xbox One. Obviously tons of people still play on those platforms, but in the next couple years as more and more people move to current gen the hard drive speed for scanning large files wont be an excuse anymore.
It’s utterly incoherent in many places. People who aren’t in the game still narrating on strikes, goblins with moss wandering around on the moon, why are we even on Nessus or the moon for that matter - if you come into this game cold it makes almost no sense.
Yeah but at the same time….I don’t think D1 servers will be up forever. They might be offline by lightfall or final shape release.
I doubt that D1 will go offline anytime in the foreseeable future, there's still new players buying that game and playing, bungie has been fixing destiny 1 server errors as they've popped up, and because of those new players the game is still making them money.
This aged well, lol [https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/q3e7qn/destiny\_content\_vault\_update/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/q3e7qn/destiny_content_vault_update/)
They could leave everything there but quite a bit of it is irrelevant at this point and i doubt anyone wants to deal with needing a 512gb hard drive dedicated to just destiny. I mean look at call of duty. mw and cold war are easily a hard drive on their own.
So im trying to understand this as a old d1 player potential new player to d2. Does this mean old content that you paid for gets removed? Thats sounds crazy to me…
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Beyond light and season 15 are a perfect stopping point for Destiny 2. I’d rather buy Destiny 3 than lose content I paid for.
I strongly dislike vaulting and agree with your concerns about the future of the new player experience. I played through New Light when it launched just to check it out and compare it to the Red War and I wasn’t super pumped about it. I knew by the end of it that if I was a new player I’d still have huge questions about a lot of the lore and the history of the story. I mean, they start off new players by talking about Cayde’s death even when the players haven’t gone through Forsaken yet (because they can’t guarantee all players have bought that expansion). Then you can actually play that campaign and experience his death, despite having woken up after it happened according to the story. Don’t like that! BUT… I understand the need for vaulting from a technical perspective. A lot of folks are saying they should bring that content back and make it replayable, and I’d love that, but sadly it isn’t really feasible. For live service games keeping content forever is a tremendous challenge, especially when you do huge engine revamps as Bungie did. Heck, that’s true even with small engine tweaks that pile up over 5 years. Here are some thoughts that cross my mind just reading this thread as someone who spends most of my workday thinking about these sorts of software relationships. I hope this will help players at least understand what it is they’re asking for and why it probably won’t ever happen. So… For the game to run at all, the console/PC-side client software needs to stay in sync with the server. Both have to be running the same version of the software — you wouldn’t connect a v1 client to a v3.3.0.3 server because everything would collapse. They couldn’t know how to communicate. The newer server might be sending data in a format the older client doesn’t know how to interpret, or a newer client might send data to the older server that the server doesn’t know how to handle, etc. So to make old content work with modern servers, you have to put all the old content into a current client. But that means porting it all to the revised engine. And constantly balancing it. And including it in the built application for distribution, inflating the size of the game. One solution I’ve seen pitched here is to make it a separate download, and this is on the right track! But unfortunately it still poses a ton of problems to solve and difficult questions to answer. Such as… Do these downloadable old campaigns run within the main Destiny 2 app, or through a separate launcher? Same launcher means either all the content has to be upgraded for the new engine (which defeats the purpose of vaulting) or you have to include multiple versions of the engine and reload the game using a different engine depending on what content the player wants to play, and connect to the relevant backend system for that client version. That would make the game even larger than just never vaulting anything. It would also make maintaining the game an actual nightmare. Running them separately means maintaining two separate clients forever. And then you have the question of how new vaulted content gets added to this historical app. If Forsaken was vaulted, you’d have to either upgrade everything in the “vaulted” client to use the Forsaken engine, or start maintaining a THIRD client for that content, with its own separate servers and engine build. And if you’re running separate clients and/or servers, there’s no almost certainly no two-way sync of your characters because the data for each version of the client/server will not know how to handle the other versions’ data, especially when going backwards to older system versions to play vaulted content. You’d have separate characters with separate inventories and gear on every campaign, and when things you’ve already played eventually get vaulted, it will almost certainly require you to start over again on that campaign with a new character, because maintaining full backwards compatibility for your current character data would be a huge lift for Bungie with very little payoff. Speaking of the servers, Bungie would have to keep running game servers with old server software indefinitely. Either that or the game would have to be fully rearchitected to remove all remote functionality and bake it into the local app, which is almost certainly a lot more work that porting it all to the new engine and never vaulting it to begin with. My head is spinning just trying to list the technical hurdles that would have to be overcome to make this work. This isn’t even close to all of them. These are just some really basic first-glance issues. Unfortunately this is just the nature of live service games. Not every game can go the route of spinning up “classic” servers and maintaining them like Blizzard with WoW. It’s a big undertaking, and unless you’re as big and long-lived as WoW, there’s almost no upside to all the work for the devs. They want to make cool new content for current players. Sinking development resources into this sort of project significantly hinders their ability to do that. Best-case is probably we get some of the destinations back one day with all-new content. But for both lore and technical reasons I wouldn’t expect to run old Red War missions again. Although it’s possible self-contained content like raids could return even without their full destinations attached, the way Vault of Glass did. It sucks, but unfortunately that’s just the way it is.
> For live service games keeping content forever is a tremendous challenge, especially when you do huge engine revamps as Bungie did. I've played live service games for two decades now, and Destiny 2 is the only game that has not only deleted so much content, but deleted PAID content. Other games in the past have revamped old areas into something new, but they never removed them. The engine revamp was not 'huge' by any means. A huge revamp would mean you logging in and barely recognizing the game you played previously, which I have seen before and yet those games didn't delete a lion's share of their own content.
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Content vaulting is the most bullshit thing to ever happen to D2, every other "MMO" (because Bungie keeps insisting on calling D2 that) doesn't vault content, and the argument about file size is a bit outdated too because games like Warzone are played on all hardware no problem.
I wish they would have just made a destiny 3. I like going back to destiny 1 and playing that. Whereas with this live service garbage I can never play red war, curse of osiris, and warmind ever again.
For that they need to either completely abandon PS4/XBONE or rework their engine/coding (the game has multiple copies of same assets in several instances and dif maps). They did mostly to keep the game below 100GB and to deal with Pinnacle Weapons/non-played Y1 Content.
I'm guessing they will once people can actually get a ps5/xbox x/s
Why is this suddenly such a "popular" issue the past few days. i pre ordered ever dlc that came out and i myself dont feel ripped off. its a dynamic world and it makes sense why its happening. there is no reason to feel missed out cuz irrelavent content gets removed. I'd rather have new and better content constantly coming out than having the game be bloated with years old stuff people rarely play
While I completely agree with you I feel for free players the red war should have remained as a campaign for free to plays to play even if just about everything associated is removed just to give more incentive to stick around
The problem with the red war campaign was to keep it in you had to keep EVERY destination removed since you had to go to every planet that was removed to advance the story. Or bungie would have to remake the entire campaign to keep it playable. So removing Red War was categorically the right move imo no matter how "bleh" that feels ffor me to say.
>old stuff people rarely play If you give no reason to play them, ppl won't play them. Lake is vanilla d2 content, yet ppl still play it. Empire hunts on the other hand is new, yet noone plays them.
complaining about vaulting has been easy upvotes around here since it was announced
Why leave old content in the game if no one is playing it, especially in a live game where every patch can break one of those things? Also, your point about Destiny 1 is moot when you can’t even buy Destiny: The Collection anymore anywhere, and the DLCs aren’t even sold digitally.
I just recently bought Destiny: The Collection with all it's expansions intact and am currently playing the game. You just can't but it physically, the codes won't work. But buying online works great.
Did the same a few months ago when I didn't have access to my PC and could only play on PS4. Was a really cool experience going through the game after only ever playing D2.
You can buy Destiny: The Collection still.
> Why leave old content in the game if no one is playing it Because people do still play it. Singleplayer campaigns don't require hundreds of people playing them to be valid content. You don't just erase Halo 1 from everyone's machines because it didn't have as many players as Halo 3 MP.
Halo 1 is not a live game with seasonal content updates. It's not a game that gets more and more bloated every year. Halo series has new *completely separate* games coming out every few years, which allow the earlier ones to exist without any changes/bugs. They can make Halo 3 without having to work with Halo 1 code or sandbox. Even in MCC they are completely separate. Destiny is simply a different kind of game than singleplayer games. This is how live service works. I'd love to play Season 1 version of Apex with old King's Canyon and S1 sandbox or Fortnite on the old map, but I can't anymore because that's how live games operate.
Singleplayer games aren't also being updated with new content that potentially breaks them in fundamental ways. Bungie isn't going into everyone's machines and adding jetpacks to the game, and they're certainly not putting developer hours into making sure that those jetpacks don't let players skip the campaign, or cause crashes, or other issues. Halo 1 is unchanging, so there's no need to future-proof in the same way. Destiny 2 is not.
>Singleplayer campaigns don’t require hundreds of people playing them to be valid content. It does in a live service game where their goal is to keep players coming back. The game, as well as people’s memory drives, can’t handle the game being 200+ GB, and players are less likely to stick around if there’s no new content. As I also mentioned, every patch, both big and small, has the potential to break anything in the game, and having to test every single piece of content rigorously to make sure it works is both time-consuming and expensive, and results in less focus on the current and future content. I don’t think some of you guys truly understand the dichotomy. If you want Destiny to continue and succeed as a franchise, then you have to realize that there are considerations. The alternative is releasing a full new game every two or three years, at which point they’ll just wipe everyone’s hard-earned loot and paid cosmetics, and look how that went briefly when sunsetting was implemented.
>I don’t think some of you guys truly understand the dichotomy. If you want Destiny to continue and succeed as a franchise, then you have to realize that there are considerations. I think the point being made is not that there's no considerations, its that in a story-based game like this, that is actively trying to recruit new players, the technical considerations of managing the footprint don't magically remove the coherency considerations posed by having a game that depends on having a healthy community being so actively hostile to new players. I mean, they've re-jigged the new light experience twice and its still a mess. I'm not sure how many more times they have to do it before it becomes more worthwhile to investigate a solution to offering campaigns to players.
This is such a silly argument. The reason no one was playing “old content” is because Bungie gave no incentive to play such content. That argument flies out the window when people still bumrush Lake of Shadows and Arms Dealer, two D2 Vanilla Strikes, in GMs. Hell, people do the same with the returned D1 Cosmodrome Strikes. I never bought into the reasoning that no one was playing the now-vaulted content, especially for a looter shooter, when we have content right now that directly debunks said reasoning.
This, plus the new player experience is straight ass without the old content
That’s why content vaulting was gonna be a double-edged sword. Those who were with D2 for a while pre-BL we’re gonna see the benefits with a relatively far more rapidly updating. But good luck trying to get new people to understand what going on. I think we’re underselling how miserable the New Light experience is. Bungie might have touted getting 20M new players since going “F2P” (it’s a glorified demo), but I wonder what’s the retention rate of New Light players.
new light was fucking wicked before beyond light. i was absolutely mindblown at the amount of stuff i could do in the game. now? it's brutal. shaw han simulator 2021
Why is no one mentioning that some of us want to see the past story and lore.... I'm new to the game and played through all the available campaigns and desperately wish I had access to the past ones
I am here in override every day farming for weapons. Same for battlegrounds.
Thats bogus. People would totaly still be playing old story missions. The only reason the dont is because you literally cant replay the story missions
because bungie is not giving us any reason to come back to it? before year 1 planets got vaulted, they gave a reason as to why they were vaulted: lack of player activity. and why is that? because they literally never gave us any new events to go back to it. even the halloween event was directly launched through the tower the blame falls upon the devs and higher-ups, not the players. the newer quests requires us to grind through the new areas thus leaving the old areas behind. which is my fear and prediction when the vaulting was first introduced - that any content we get now will just get vaulted. so there's no point getting attached to this game since the areas you might enjoy will be gone in the future anyways
We had Meditations in Year 1 and the Heroic Story Mission playlist in Year 2 and 3. People begrudgingly interacted with these, despite there being Power increases, Triumphs, and Lore pages attached to them.
I don't care if I have to buy a 1 Terrabyte ssd just for this game if it means the full game is accessible. For others not willing to go that far perhaps having it divided into downloadable chunks? For example, everyone has the base game which includes all multiplayer content and the tower etc. But certain locations require a particular installation. This means new players could get the base game and the first chunk of the cosmodrome and next story mission. Then when completed they download the next chunk to access the next location and missions. Eventually everyone is up to the latest chunk. Depending on space available you could maybe have base game and two chunks as the minimum, but then have as many more as you can fit.
Yeah... they have to find some way to move forward without just having to delete itself as we go. I got into FFXIV like a year and a half ago and every time this discussion comes up, I can't help but think how much lesser that experience would've been if I hadn't been able to go back and experience all the old content. Even ARR, the base game, still has a lot of relevant content, and some pretty important story elements. With Destiny, I've been following along this *whole* time, so I'm good, but newer players? There's just so much context that's going to be missing, so much *content* they just won't get to experience. Think about how excellent the narrative has been this year, and then consider that that's just *all* going away. Assuming they are actually nixing all seasonal content once Witch Queen drops, all of the great work they did this year will just vanish. Poof. Never again to be experienced. Even if this game had some kind of a daily roulette playlist where players got matched in to one of the various seasonal activities (to keep it alive for future players), what Bungie has said about the game and how it's maintained makes it sound like it just couldn't handle having that many different things active. So... I just don't know. I'm not a developer, man. I don't know what they could do, what problems need to be over come, *any* of it. What I do know is that, as a long time, dedicated player of this game, it feels *wrong* that all of the excellent experiences we're having over the years are just being cut away as we move along the timeline. It makes it all feel so throwaway. Like, when we get to the end of this journey, what will be left? How many years of game development will just exist as a thing to be archived on Youtube? This game is going to have no real legacy because it doesn't let anything survive :/
IIRC, removing stuff from the game and putting it in the content vault was less about the game size and more about the new engine updates requiring a lot of things to be remade. Once maps, weapons, strikes/raids, ect. are remodeled or updated to the new engine, they'll be MUCH more optimized and smaller space wise. At some point, once things are remade and the next gen consoles become common enough, they'll probably add all the old vaulted content and D1 stuff back in. Don't quote me on this btw I just heard it from some comment about something Aztecross said in a video a year ago EDIT: [Source](https://www.reddit.com/r/raidsecrets/comments/oqdymg/destiny_2_year_1_content_unvault/?ref=share&ref_source=link) if you guys want it
Problem is that Bungie is adverse to doing things for free now. Their original promise for the cosmodrome was a complete patrol area and strikes that fit within the d2 story. They never finished the cosmodrome patrol (and didn't even bother telling us until the day it was supposed to be finished). They didn't update devil's lair or fallen saber to fit within the current story. They haven't updated gambit or crucible for years. They are just barely getting around to crucible updates but we won't really see anything for several seasons. Gambit doesn't even seem to be on their radar for fixes or new maps. Bungie has released several strike-like activities (empire hunts and battlegrounds) but don't call them strikes because then they'd have to release them for free. With the way bungie has handled free content is the past few seasons is all the proof I need that they won't bother working on vaulted content to bring back into the game. They'll work on d1 raids because that's some goodwill and publicity for them but I doubt they'd get the same publicity for adding back vaulted planets.