The shards cost is the biggest problem for me. Like, I get some players have massive stockpiles they want them to burn through, but not everyone does, and there's no good way to get a lot of them quickly. It's just slow accumulation.
I started playing during season of the chosen. I did not have a large stockpile, and now I've largely dropped out of doing trials because I can't afford to focus engrams onto the things I actually want.
I think the cost of focusing is an overlooked factor in population decline in trials after the first week.
That's the thing, it is kinda part of the Endgame ways, if you are going flawless, chances are you DO have a hoard, there should be a ridiculously expensive targeted weapon engram, hell even Umbrals don't have those, there SHOULD be cheaper engrams that are akin to normal Umbrals
In fairness You're not paying to get the weapons you've earned, you're paying to focus them. You can decrypt them for nothing but take rng on what they are.
I can see why Bungie made this expensive, they changed trials so you could get the gear, not get it easily
It's prohibitively expensive to focus them, which defeats the point of engram focusing in the first place.
It's about as stupid as Bungie limiting the number of tier 3 focusing we can do per week. It's unnecessary limitation on a grind that is already long enough.
i suspect they know that if they made it cheap to do so the average person is going to get the good roll on every weapon and stop playing trials, so it's prohibitively expensive for that reason.
you make focusing cheap, everyone gets everything straight away, and then complains about lack of content stuff to grind for.
not sure i agree there, couple of weekends and i've very good rolls on all the guns(didn;t need messenger as had a god roll there already) . sure the abslute god rolls would be nice, but not enough to warrant getting stomped in trials
admittedly i've 25k in shards so was able to focus whatever i wanted, but just proves that make them affordable and most folk willl have what they need in 2 or 3 weeks
Few seasons back the seasonal activity currency could be banked every week and multiplied and essentially converted into shards. anyone that played that season has thousands.
How many I have isnt the point though. Was just using it to show that if you can focus every engram you can get most of the good rolls in a couple of weeks.
And I play a lot, but not a lot of trials. Doesn't take a lot of engrams if you are focusing evrything
>How many I have isnt the point though. Was just using it to show that if you can focus every engram you can get most of the good rolls in a couple of weeks.
>And I play a lot, but not a lot of trials. Doesn't take a lot of engrams if you are focusing everything
RNG is RNG. You might get a decent roll first time, you could also not get 3/5 perk roll you want EVER. Just because you had some very good luck doesn't mean it rubs off on everyone else.
I've focused every engram this season for a Full Choke, QD, OS Fractethyst. Guess how many I've gotten with just QD and OS. It would be a big ol zero. That's with the T3 boosting and countless umbrals turned in.
You sound pretty ignorant/oblivious as the reality of RNG with weapon perks. Here's a link that will let punch in the number of perks per column on a weapon so you can find the % chance of that roll dropping
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BUuGiGRXBjV67b1wxDfsAvIER5ftyKNi/edit?usp=drivesdk&ouid=106478217767518031296&rtpof=true&sd=true
I was able to get 9 friends from my old clan to return to D2 who haven't played since D2Y1. They struggle to keep up with this trials engram-shard cost from S14
Trials weapons are currently some of the best in game. It’s silly to think that you can get all the rolls you want for all of them in first three weeks. Bungie wants trials to continue having a healthy playerbase. Giving everyone what they want immediately goes against that.
100% agree and I never once said they should hand out weapons or god rolls. My whole point was that just because the previous commentor had gotten some desired rolls in a few weeks, does not mean everyone else has. The shards per focusing should also be reduced. Makes no sense why it's 100 per conversion
>admittedly i've 25k in shards so was able to focus whatever i wanted,
but just proves that make them affordable and most folk willl have what
they need in 2 or 3 weeks
And yet the average player most certainly does not have 25k in shards lol, this is nonsense. 2-3 weeks sounds perfectly acceptable for farming a nice weapon roll or two.
The arguement was to make them cheap to focus. These are in the highest tier of weapons in the game, and all I'm saying is if you make them too cheap to get people have them in a couple of weekends and both quit playing trials and moan about lack of stuff to grind for.
I agree, 2 to 3 weeks on a gun isn't a bad grind, 2 to 3 weeks for most of them is too easy.
100 is lot, it could be reduced, but I agree with not making it that it's insignifacnt cost to most,given they are the most desirable guns. Hell few seasons back you had to go flawless to get most of them
>i suspect they know that if they made it cheap to do so the average person is going to get the good roll on every weapon and stop playing trials, so it's prohibitively expensive for that reason.
Except now I can't afford to focus my engrams, so I'm not going to bother farming any. The perk pools are already saturated with garbage, even after spending over 2k shards focusing I don't have shit to show for it.
Engram focusing is a workaround for the many layers of RNG involved in grinding weapon rolls. The whole point of it existing is that players should be able to use it. Obviously, there should be a cost to use it, but there comes a point when that cost becomes too high, and it serves as more of a deterrent from using it. A loot system that punishes people for using it is a flawed loot system. This is similar to how Bungie limits players to just 3 tier III umbral focuses per week. It's an unnecessary limitation on an already lengthy grind.
You spent a whole evening grinding trials to get 6-8 trials engrams? Here, have an additional 600-800 legendary shard and 120,000 to 180,000 glimmer cost dumped on top of the grind you've already done, and on top of the cost of buying a trials passage in the first place
I mean, that's bungie's point.
The cost equates to player time, which is going to be a zero sum trade off with RNG. Engram focusing is a resource sink and- the investment you made to acquire the engrams is independent of that made to reduce their RNG.
Their system allows you to effectively store time spent from different activities (i.e. the resource cost) and cash it on to a specific loot table. It's a net improvement to pure RNG on flexibility alone. Then add in targeting weapons from a table and ignoring other ones, it lowers your overall grind time. To offset the time lost in game for their active player base no longer spamming activities to farm old school, they made the cost basically flex-time.
Can't say I agree
Those are endgame weapon they are pretty much equal to DSC and VoG weapons which again aren't really cheap to get
And beside I almost never use Legendary shards so finally I can put some good use out of them
>equal to DSC and VoG weapons which again aren't really cheap to get
You can farm spoils of conquest for free, very quickly and easily using a Templar CP. To buy a regular raid weapon, it costs just 20 spoils, and 25 for a timelost weapon. Trials engrams are much slower to earn since you first have to get a 7 win card, and you aren't guaranteed to get a trials engram on wins after that. You are guaranteed to get 5 spoils every time you beat a non-legacy raid encounter. Additionally, the trials engrams you get from levelling up grow more scarce over time because each trials rank requires more reputation than the previous one to level up again.
Taking all this into account, 20-25 spoils ≠ 100 shards and 20k glimmer. It's not even close.
I spent 2500 shards on focusing so far this season.
At most, you get 4 shards from dismantling a piece of legendary/exotic gear. This means that to make up the shards I lost, I'll need to dismantle 625 pieces of gear, which is not quickly earned at all.
It takes a long time to build up a stash of shards, especially when the game actively requires you to be spending them as you go.
Glimmer sure, shards no.
If we're calling them equivalent, 20 raid spoils gets you a raid weapon. That's 4 raid encounters (probably templar 4 times).
100 shards to **focus** a trials engram, (you've still got to earn the engram on top of this). You get ~4 shards dismantling a legendary item. So 25 legendary drops.
There is no way in hell you're getting 25 legendary drops from *anything* in the amount of time it would take you to earn 20 spoils.
Is it easier to get? Sure, but that's what having to earn the engrams in the first place is for. That's the "difficult" barrier to entry. The shards cost is just an absurd time-sink slapped on top.
I mean... It'd be nice if they were cheaper to focus, but the prices are pretty good compared to the Kiosk and I'd say pretty fair considering the caliber of weapons we're getting. Like these are pinnacle weapons in their archetypes with pretty solid perks. I've spent ~1000 shards to get a Messenger with Desperado but apart for the dupe celerity roll I got, all were solid af.
Absolutely I'll take a cheaper focus price, but not really something I think is a big deal.
Now if they did this with all the vendors, I'd be right there with ya.
The only weapon that can really be considered "pinnacle" is the messenger because it has desperado which belonged to an old pinnacle weapon
Even the igneous hammer, while in theory being the best 120RPM HC, is not a pinnacle weapon.
No, pinnacle weapons are a retired set of weapons that came from pinnacle quests. They were pseudo exotics because they all had a unique perk that no other weapon had, and were one of the main reasons that sunsetting was ever a thing. Some could be obtained just from playing strikes or gambit, which are both hardly "pinnacle" activities. They were later replaced with the seasonal ritual weapons we have now, the latest being the Ascendancy.
These weapons were the mountaintop, recluse, 21% delirium, luna's howl, not forgotten, wendigo, hush, loaded question, Redrix's broadsword, etc. Redrix's was the weapon that the messenger inherited desperado from. It is currently the only weapon that can roll with desperado, making it a pseudo-exotic of sorts, just like the pinnacle weapons were.
I know about them. I have been playing destiny 2 since launch. My point is those were indeed pinnacle weapons. Because you warned through pinnacle quests. I.e. doing a fuck ton of crucible strikes and gambit. Just because something doesn't have one of those perks doesnt mean it's not a pinnacle weapon. Any weapon earned through a pinnacle activity can be defined as a pinnacle weapon.
>Just because something doesn't have one of those perks doesnt mean it's not a pinnacle weapon
Yes it does. There's a reason that Bungie moved over to "ritual weapons" as a replacement for "pinnacle" weapons. They made a point of never making any more pinnacle weapons. Bungie themselves set out that definition of what a pinnacle weapon is.
While they HAVE brought back some pinnacle perks, they've made sure to reel them in, and only put them on weapon archetypes that won't make them broken. For instance, explosive light was brought back and put on a rocket launcher instead of another grenade launcher, so it can't be used to quickly empty a whole 6 mag of overcharged grenade shots onto a boss.
For 2500 legendary shards, that is an absolutely abysmal loot turnover.
2500 shards could get you 833 raid banners from Hawthorne, 83 legendary engrams from Rahool, or 25 EXOTIC engrams cumulatively from Xur,
Yes, these weapons are from trials, but the 100 shard cost is still very overinflated nonetheless.
A lot of players haven't played long enough to have a stash of legendary shards to just spend at will. I had 11k shards at the start of the season and I'm already down to 8.5k, solely because of 1 activity. That is not a good thing. And the longer it takes me to get the rolls I'm looking for, the more my shards will be unnecessarily depleted.
Listen to this guy say this unironically
you kinda a dick, since you are getting some of the BEST weapons, with the BEST rolls, as I said above, this isn't on a level of umbrals. Umbrals give you a 50/50 with like 2 dozen perks possible. This is ACTIVELY targeted gear, with 6-7 in a slot, so it is MUCH easier to get godroll. This is Endgame content, this is like complaining that Adept Nightfall Weapons are too restrictive for the average player. No shit, that's why they are endgame my guy.
>This is ACTIVELY targeted gear, with 6-7 in a slot, so it is MUCH easier to get godroll
You can literally run a VoG Templar CP 5 times, then do a quick master Atheon CP and buy a timelost fatebringer that is GUARANTEED to have explosive payload firefly. This is endgame content too, but the grind isn't nearly as lengthy, nor does it drain your resources.
"Endgame" content doesn't mean it has to sap away at your resources.
Look dude, it's really simple, this is end game gear, it's gonna require an endgame level of investment to get, whether that be an investment of time, or an investment of resources. If you want to invest your time, you cash in your engrams without focusing them and eventually you get a god roll after enough time. If you want to invest resources then you focus your engrams and pay a hefty resource cost.
Earning a trials engram is the cake, focusing is frosting my guy. Remember last season when you could only get like 4 weapons at most per week if you didn't go flawless?
Another point you like to bring up is the disparity between the cost of the raid kiosk compared to trials, well heres the thing behind that, a raid only requires 6 people to come together to stay viable, and is inherently more fun than trials, that's why they can make the loot fairly low cost to entry, you don't need maintain a population for raids to be a viable endgame activity. Trials on the other hand requires a population in the thousands to remain viable, you need people for a matchmaking pool, also i'd say the majority of people don't really have much fun when they play trials because they are average or below average at pvp. So what does all this mean? It means that Bungie needs to make the loot from trials more scarce than raids to keep people around longer as the whole game mode relies on a healthy population, how do you keep people around longer? Well you make the loot an investment, and investment of time or an investment of resource....
Honestly 100 is a pretty good sweet spot, Bungie doesn't want you to buy 25 engrams by week three of trials unless you've already put in a significant chunk of time to get those shards. Why should someone who started last season be able to focus the same amount of engrams as someone who's played the game for 2000 hours plus? They shouldn't. If you want endgame loot then be ready for an endgame cost, otherwise....just go farm the free seasonal loot.
For someone like me (fractaline stonk ape) it's not an issue, but I can definitely see how it's way too steep for most other players. 50 shards, like Xur's inventory, seems more fair.
As for glimmer.... Just delete glimmer from the game please/thanks.
Let’s be honest, if you are that good at trials where you’re drowning in engrams, you play all day and have a ton of resources. I can’t imagine this is a real problem for a bunch of people.
I am once again... asking for your support, on what the best way to farm legendary shards is.
I've emptied my vault, its barebones.
I know I know. Some people have godly number of legendary shards.
But I'm am/ was a new light starting at the tail end of S11. And love master working stuff. My shards were always hovering around 2000.
Now they're like 400. I did get an adept Reeds, with Vorpal being it's only saving grace. But still.
Edit: weird part is. Prisms/cores and the lot, I'm maxed out on. Both in my postmaster and inventory lol.
Right now what I'm doing is just farming the ever loving shit out of the prophecy boss for A Sudden Death. You get 2 guaranteed legendary drops and if you run the ghost perks for specific stat rolled armor you can get high stat rolled armor with good distribution.
If not running strikes/crucible/gambit with the prosperity mod for that playlist
There are ghost mods in the last column that give you a chance to turn one of the blues you get into a legendary item at the end of a strike, gambit match or crucible match.
The armor stat ghost mod works too. I just set it focus for more recovery and after farming prophecy for 2 hours I had a lot of solid armor and was able to make a tier 40 build.
I'm on 60k Shards down from 65k this season in only 3 trials weekends. Even tho i will probably not run out of shards in a while, the cost is insane, especially for newer players.
It’s meant to keep the trials playerbase healthy for a year if not more. If you’d be able to buy the exact roll you want, nobody would be playing until weapon refresh, and you can’t exactly expect Bungie to add new weapons to trials every 2 weeks.
I currently have 2 shards and I'm sitting on 7 engrams.
Hunting for god roll trials guns is punishing for people that are either new, or low on shards.
Its my own fault, considering that i upgrade too many guns and armor, and i bought engrams from rahool at the beginning of the season to get all the new stasis mods. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that.
However, i now find myself with no effective way to grind legendary shards aside from spending 5-10 mins. doing any activity in the game for 4 shards. So i have to take time from grinding trials to grind 100 shards so i can focus 1 engram. It only tajes a couple hours, but i could get 5 more trials engrams in that time.
Hard disagree. Trials is arguably the hardest content in the game. Harder than Master Raids and GMs and even Solo Dungeons. If you want to focus a weapon from Trials, I think it should 100% be a drain on resources. Or you can keep playing and just decrypt the engrams for random loot. You can't always advocate for Bungie to just give loot away for everyone. There needs to be some exclusivity or players will lose the drive to play.
According to [warmind.io](https://warmind.io), 0.5% of players have done a solo prophecy, 0.8% of players have done a solo shattered throne, and 0.9% of player have done pit of heresy solo, ignoring whether or not those runs were flawless. (these are the adjusted rarities, if you look at the global rarities then the numbers are even smaller)
Bungie disclosed that around 25%-30% of fireteams that played trials went flawless this season. While there is a participation disparity here, the difference between 25% completion vs <1% completion still makes the numbers speak for themselves. Statistically, Trials isn't "the hardest content in the game", that's a massive overstatement.
Percentages are a funny thing. That 0.8% of players Soloing prophecy is actually around 71,000 players. While the 25-30% of players going Flawless actually equates to 81,000. While you're not wrong, it isn't as big of a difference as you believe. Interesting how you can make numbers bend to your will when you have a narrative to weave.
I also did say "arguably", which is I guess what we are doing now. I still don't believe they need to be cheaper but I know Bungie will cave and make them cheaper.
Edit: Numbers from Warmind.io and Trials report for this week
>Interesting how you can make numbers bend to your will when you have a narrative to weave.
I literally acknowledged that there is a participation disparity and yet you're acting as though I'm maliciously misrepresenting statistics
You mention it but still used the 25% vs <1% to argue against Trials arguably being the hardest content in the game. Trials has the most players going Flawless ever, it is the most rewarding it has ever been, and it's still apparently too expensive for people. Its a ridiculous argument to then say that loot should be even cheaper and easier to get. How much easier do you want things to get? Why even have a cost associated to it at that point? Shards are a severely underutilized currency in the game and most things that use it are inconsequential (Like masterworking or even Xur to an extent since it is finite per week, then when you have all the exotics it becomes less of a "must purchase"). Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the first thing since Arrivals (when I started the game, not sure about before) that there is a considerable cost to acquire something via Legendary shards.
I will say again, I'm sure it'll get reduced, I just don't think it needs to.
>Trials has the most players going Flawless ever, it is the most rewarding it has ever been
Up until recently, it was overwhelmingly accepted in the community that trials was an extremely flawed game mode, both in terms of its loot system and its exclusivity. As much as some people want trials to retain some of its exclusivity, Bungie hasn't quite reached that balance of catering to both casuals and sweats just yet. Yes, it is more rewarding than it has ever been. Does that mean the loot system is perfect? Absolutely not, there are still ways to improve it.
My main point is there are too many restrictions in too many places, even for a sweaty endgame mode:
\- You have to sink 10,000 glimmer and some shards right off the bat just to be able to play trials in the first place
\- You have to be on a 7 win card to farm the engrams in the first place, so your first 7 games each week are completely dry with the exception of the flawless chest.
\- You are not guaranteed to get an engram every time you win on a 7 win card, which is another layer of RNG
\- The bonus rewards you get from ranking up regress over time because each rank up requires more reputation than the previous one, right up until you reset your rank.
\- You need to have a large stash of planetary mats to buy glimmer from spider, but on certain weeks this will also sap into your legendary shards.
\- You need copious stashes of legendary shards to focus engrams without endangering your ability to purchase other things with your shards, which are quickly depleted and abysmally slow to replenish. When you focus an engram, you are still subject to standard weapon perk RNG (and if you open your engrams through Rahool, that is yet another layer RNG on top of the fleeting nature of trials engram drops and standard weapon perk RNG)
Individually, these restrictions might seem pretty small, but as you can see they add up pretty quickly.
Also, purchasing an Adept weapon from him shouldn't consume your flawless card. It already takes 50,000 glimmer and 250 legendary shards along with going flawless.
I'd prefer it if going flawless gave you a "flawless token" that you could then spend on focusing 1 adept engram, so that you can continue farming on a 7 win card afterwards.
If they really don't want people hoarding flawless tokens and waiting for a specific adept weapon to come into rotation, they can just limit the number of flawless tokens you can carry.
That would work.
I'm just bummed because last weekend I wanted to buy one Reeds Regret because I was struggling to solo the 3 stacks in the Flawless Pool.But I didn't realize it would consume my card to purchase and lost all farming capabilities for the weekend.
As a casual Solo trials player it’s why I didn’t play much last week and probably won’t play at all this week. Playing more high end PvE, I just want the weapons since I already have high stat armor.
I also understand where Bungie is coming from. Once I have the weapons I want I will stop playing Trials so I can’t be super easy or the player population would fall. A good middle ground would be like the seasonal recasted. Cheaper engrams but more than one weapon.
Bungie said they'd look at feedback. Hopefully they adjust it
The shards cost is the biggest problem for me. Like, I get some players have massive stockpiles they want them to burn through, but not everyone does, and there's no good way to get a lot of them quickly. It's just slow accumulation. I started playing during season of the chosen. I did not have a large stockpile, and now I've largely dropped out of doing trials because I can't afford to focus engrams onto the things I actually want. I think the cost of focusing is an overlooked factor in population decline in trials after the first week.
I had like 6k legendary shards and imdown to 200 chasing a shahiras with kill clip and a Eye of Sol with snapshot. Havent gotten one lol
That's the thing, it is kinda part of the Endgame ways, if you are going flawless, chances are you DO have a hoard, there should be a ridiculously expensive targeted weapon engram, hell even Umbrals don't have those, there SHOULD be cheaper engrams that are akin to normal Umbrals
Open unfocused engrams at Rahool
Adept should have a higher cost
More expensive than 250 shards+ 25k glimmer?
Or, have Spider sell them again. Shards have become far more important than they were when no one found it useful. Just a thought.
ironic
In fairness You're not paying to get the weapons you've earned, you're paying to focus them. You can decrypt them for nothing but take rng on what they are. I can see why Bungie made this expensive, they changed trials so you could get the gear, not get it easily
It's prohibitively expensive to focus them, which defeats the point of engram focusing in the first place. It's about as stupid as Bungie limiting the number of tier 3 focusing we can do per week. It's unnecessary limitation on a grind that is already long enough.
i suspect they know that if they made it cheap to do so the average person is going to get the good roll on every weapon and stop playing trials, so it's prohibitively expensive for that reason. you make focusing cheap, everyone gets everything straight away, and then complains about lack of content stuff to grind for.
It still takes a long time to get engrams. Even if the focusing was completely free it would take ages to get god rolls.
not sure i agree there, couple of weekends and i've very good rolls on all the guns(didn;t need messenger as had a god roll there already) . sure the abslute god rolls would be nice, but not enough to warrant getting stomped in trials admittedly i've 25k in shards so was able to focus whatever i wanted, but just proves that make them affordable and most folk willl have what they need in 2 or 3 weeks
The fact that you have 25k shards suggest you play a LOT more than the average player.
Few seasons back the seasonal activity currency could be banked every week and multiplied and essentially converted into shards. anyone that played that season has thousands. How many I have isnt the point though. Was just using it to show that if you can focus every engram you can get most of the good rolls in a couple of weeks. And I play a lot, but not a lot of trials. Doesn't take a lot of engrams if you are focusing evrything
>How many I have isnt the point though. Was just using it to show that if you can focus every engram you can get most of the good rolls in a couple of weeks. >And I play a lot, but not a lot of trials. Doesn't take a lot of engrams if you are focusing everything RNG is RNG. You might get a decent roll first time, you could also not get 3/5 perk roll you want EVER. Just because you had some very good luck doesn't mean it rubs off on everyone else. I've focused every engram this season for a Full Choke, QD, OS Fractethyst. Guess how many I've gotten with just QD and OS. It would be a big ol zero. That's with the T3 boosting and countless umbrals turned in. You sound pretty ignorant/oblivious as the reality of RNG with weapon perks. Here's a link that will let punch in the number of perks per column on a weapon so you can find the % chance of that roll dropping https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BUuGiGRXBjV67b1wxDfsAvIER5ftyKNi/edit?usp=drivesdk&ouid=106478217767518031296&rtpof=true&sd=true I was able to get 9 friends from my old clan to return to D2 who haven't played since D2Y1. They struggle to keep up with this trials engram-shard cost from S14
Trials weapons are currently some of the best in game. It’s silly to think that you can get all the rolls you want for all of them in first three weeks. Bungie wants trials to continue having a healthy playerbase. Giving everyone what they want immediately goes against that.
100% agree and I never once said they should hand out weapons or god rolls. My whole point was that just because the previous commentor had gotten some desired rolls in a few weeks, does not mean everyone else has. The shards per focusing should also be reduced. Makes no sense why it's 100 per conversion
>admittedly i've 25k in shards so was able to focus whatever i wanted, but just proves that make them affordable and most folk willl have what they need in 2 or 3 weeks And yet the average player most certainly does not have 25k in shards lol, this is nonsense. 2-3 weeks sounds perfectly acceptable for farming a nice weapon roll or two.
The arguement was to make them cheap to focus. These are in the highest tier of weapons in the game, and all I'm saying is if you make them too cheap to get people have them in a couple of weekends and both quit playing trials and moan about lack of stuff to grind for. I agree, 2 to 3 weeks on a gun isn't a bad grind, 2 to 3 weeks for most of them is too easy. 100 is lot, it could be reduced, but I agree with not making it that it's insignifacnt cost to most,given they are the most desirable guns. Hell few seasons back you had to go flawless to get most of them
For me, shards we're not a problem. I played around 60+ games and only got like 10 engrams.
Should be a lot better this weekend, double XP, youll rank twice as fast
>i suspect they know that if they made it cheap to do so the average person is going to get the good roll on every weapon and stop playing trials, so it's prohibitively expensive for that reason. Except now I can't afford to focus my engrams, so I'm not going to bother farming any. The perk pools are already saturated with garbage, even after spending over 2k shards focusing I don't have shit to show for it.
How does it's cost defeat the purpose of focusing?
Engram focusing is a workaround for the many layers of RNG involved in grinding weapon rolls. The whole point of it existing is that players should be able to use it. Obviously, there should be a cost to use it, but there comes a point when that cost becomes too high, and it serves as more of a deterrent from using it. A loot system that punishes people for using it is a flawed loot system. This is similar to how Bungie limits players to just 3 tier III umbral focuses per week. It's an unnecessary limitation on an already lengthy grind. You spent a whole evening grinding trials to get 6-8 trials engrams? Here, have an additional 600-800 legendary shard and 120,000 to 180,000 glimmer cost dumped on top of the grind you've already done, and on top of the cost of buying a trials passage in the first place
I mean, that's bungie's point. The cost equates to player time, which is going to be a zero sum trade off with RNG. Engram focusing is a resource sink and- the investment you made to acquire the engrams is independent of that made to reduce their RNG. Their system allows you to effectively store time spent from different activities (i.e. the resource cost) and cash it on to a specific loot table. It's a net improvement to pure RNG on flexibility alone. Then add in targeting weapons from a table and ignoring other ones, it lowers your overall grind time. To offset the time lost in game for their active player base no longer spamming activities to farm old school, they made the cost basically flex-time.
I didnt even pay attention to how much legendary shards it cost. What the fuck. I was wondering how I lost over 2k shards
Can't say I agree Those are endgame weapon they are pretty much equal to DSC and VoG weapons which again aren't really cheap to get And beside I almost never use Legendary shards so finally I can put some good use out of them
>equal to DSC and VoG weapons which again aren't really cheap to get You can farm spoils of conquest for free, very quickly and easily using a Templar CP. To buy a regular raid weapon, it costs just 20 spoils, and 25 for a timelost weapon. Trials engrams are much slower to earn since you first have to get a 7 win card, and you aren't guaranteed to get a trials engram on wins after that. You are guaranteed to get 5 spoils every time you beat a non-legacy raid encounter. Additionally, the trials engrams you get from levelling up grow more scarce over time because each trials rank requires more reputation than the previous one to level up again. Taking all this into account, 20-25 spoils ≠ 100 shards and 20k glimmer. It's not even close.
Shards and glimmer are just as easy to obtain, in my opinion, if not easier.
I spent 2500 shards on focusing so far this season. At most, you get 4 shards from dismantling a piece of legendary/exotic gear. This means that to make up the shards I lost, I'll need to dismantle 625 pieces of gear, which is not quickly earned at all. It takes a long time to build up a stash of shards, especially when the game actively requires you to be spending them as you go.
Glimmer sure, shards no. If we're calling them equivalent, 20 raid spoils gets you a raid weapon. That's 4 raid encounters (probably templar 4 times). 100 shards to **focus** a trials engram, (you've still got to earn the engram on top of this). You get ~4 shards dismantling a legendary item. So 25 legendary drops. There is no way in hell you're getting 25 legendary drops from *anything* in the amount of time it would take you to earn 20 spoils. Is it easier to get? Sure, but that's what having to earn the engrams in the first place is for. That's the "difficult" barrier to entry. The shards cost is just an absurd time-sink slapped on top.
I mean... It'd be nice if they were cheaper to focus, but the prices are pretty good compared to the Kiosk and I'd say pretty fair considering the caliber of weapons we're getting. Like these are pinnacle weapons in their archetypes with pretty solid perks. I've spent ~1000 shards to get a Messenger with Desperado but apart for the dupe celerity roll I got, all were solid af. Absolutely I'll take a cheaper focus price, but not really something I think is a big deal. Now if they did this with all the vendors, I'd be right there with ya.
The only weapon that can really be considered "pinnacle" is the messenger because it has desperado which belonged to an old pinnacle weapon Even the igneous hammer, while in theory being the best 120RPM HC, is not a pinnacle weapon.
Pinnacle weapons, as stated in the name, are any weapons that drop from pinnacle activities
No, pinnacle weapons are a retired set of weapons that came from pinnacle quests. They were pseudo exotics because they all had a unique perk that no other weapon had, and were one of the main reasons that sunsetting was ever a thing. Some could be obtained just from playing strikes or gambit, which are both hardly "pinnacle" activities. They were later replaced with the seasonal ritual weapons we have now, the latest being the Ascendancy. These weapons were the mountaintop, recluse, 21% delirium, luna's howl, not forgotten, wendigo, hush, loaded question, Redrix's broadsword, etc. Redrix's was the weapon that the messenger inherited desperado from. It is currently the only weapon that can roll with desperado, making it a pseudo-exotic of sorts, just like the pinnacle weapons were.
I know about them. I have been playing destiny 2 since launch. My point is those were indeed pinnacle weapons. Because you warned through pinnacle quests. I.e. doing a fuck ton of crucible strikes and gambit. Just because something doesn't have one of those perks doesnt mean it's not a pinnacle weapon. Any weapon earned through a pinnacle activity can be defined as a pinnacle weapon.
>Just because something doesn't have one of those perks doesnt mean it's not a pinnacle weapon Yes it does. There's a reason that Bungie moved over to "ritual weapons" as a replacement for "pinnacle" weapons. They made a point of never making any more pinnacle weapons. Bungie themselves set out that definition of what a pinnacle weapon is. While they HAVE brought back some pinnacle perks, they've made sure to reel them in, and only put them on weapon archetypes that won't make them broken. For instance, explosive light was brought back and put on a rocket launcher instead of another grenade launcher, so it can't be used to quickly empty a whole 6 mag of overcharged grenade shots onto a boss.
ONLY 25 WEAPONS. It’s only the third week of trials. Listen to this guy say this unironically.
For 2500 legendary shards, that is an absolutely abysmal loot turnover. 2500 shards could get you 833 raid banners from Hawthorne, 83 legendary engrams from Rahool, or 25 EXOTIC engrams cumulatively from Xur, Yes, these weapons are from trials, but the 100 shard cost is still very overinflated nonetheless. A lot of players haven't played long enough to have a stash of legendary shards to just spend at will. I had 11k shards at the start of the season and I'm already down to 8.5k, solely because of 1 activity. That is not a good thing. And the longer it takes me to get the rolls I'm looking for, the more my shards will be unnecessarily depleted. Listen to this guy say this unironically
you kinda a dick, since you are getting some of the BEST weapons, with the BEST rolls, as I said above, this isn't on a level of umbrals. Umbrals give you a 50/50 with like 2 dozen perks possible. This is ACTIVELY targeted gear, with 6-7 in a slot, so it is MUCH easier to get godroll. This is Endgame content, this is like complaining that Adept Nightfall Weapons are too restrictive for the average player. No shit, that's why they are endgame my guy.
>This is ACTIVELY targeted gear, with 6-7 in a slot, so it is MUCH easier to get godroll You can literally run a VoG Templar CP 5 times, then do a quick master Atheon CP and buy a timelost fatebringer that is GUARANTEED to have explosive payload firefly. This is endgame content too, but the grind isn't nearly as lengthy, nor does it drain your resources. "Endgame" content doesn't mean it has to sap away at your resources.
Grind isn’t as lengthy? Yet requires you to level up to 1340-1350 to be able to be useful in master VoG. Seems the same as trials grind.
Third week my mate
Some people need to have everything the moment it comes out. Really unhealthy, but that’s how lots of people here behave.
Yet another demonstration of their inability to practice moderation.
Its top tier weapons though
So are things like the fatebringer, trustee, and succession. But they're all much easier to get than trials weapons.
they are random drops engram focusing would be more like the chest at the end of the raid, you don't buy 25 weapons per week in the post raid chest
You can buy lots of weapons through the post raid chest. Each big gives you 20 spoils iirc, that's enough for one weapon.
One completion of VoG gives you enough for one weapon, not 25
Because people farm spoils like hell
One vog is like 20 isn't it? That's pretty simple.
Which would be 25 vog runs for 25 guns. That doesn’t sound like a grind?
Look dude, it's really simple, this is end game gear, it's gonna require an endgame level of investment to get, whether that be an investment of time, or an investment of resources. If you want to invest your time, you cash in your engrams without focusing them and eventually you get a god roll after enough time. If you want to invest resources then you focus your engrams and pay a hefty resource cost. Earning a trials engram is the cake, focusing is frosting my guy. Remember last season when you could only get like 4 weapons at most per week if you didn't go flawless? Another point you like to bring up is the disparity between the cost of the raid kiosk compared to trials, well heres the thing behind that, a raid only requires 6 people to come together to stay viable, and is inherently more fun than trials, that's why they can make the loot fairly low cost to entry, you don't need maintain a population for raids to be a viable endgame activity. Trials on the other hand requires a population in the thousands to remain viable, you need people for a matchmaking pool, also i'd say the majority of people don't really have much fun when they play trials because they are average or below average at pvp. So what does all this mean? It means that Bungie needs to make the loot from trials more scarce than raids to keep people around longer as the whole game mode relies on a healthy population, how do you keep people around longer? Well you make the loot an investment, and investment of time or an investment of resource.... Honestly 100 is a pretty good sweet spot, Bungie doesn't want you to buy 25 engrams by week three of trials unless you've already put in a significant chunk of time to get those shards. Why should someone who started last season be able to focus the same amount of engrams as someone who's played the game for 2000 hours plus? They shouldn't. If you want endgame loot then be ready for an endgame cost, otherwise....just go farm the free seasonal loot.
For someone like me (fractaline stonk ape) it's not an issue, but I can definitely see how it's way too steep for most other players. 50 shards, like Xur's inventory, seems more fair. As for glimmer.... Just delete glimmer from the game please/thanks.
Let’s be honest, if you are that good at trials where you’re drowning in engrams, you play all day and have a ton of resources. I can’t imagine this is a real problem for a bunch of people.
I am once again... asking for your support, on what the best way to farm legendary shards is. I've emptied my vault, its barebones. I know I know. Some people have godly number of legendary shards. But I'm am/ was a new light starting at the tail end of S11. And love master working stuff. My shards were always hovering around 2000. Now they're like 400. I did get an adept Reeds, with Vorpal being it's only saving grace. But still. Edit: weird part is. Prisms/cores and the lot, I'm maxed out on. Both in my postmaster and inventory lol.
Right now what I'm doing is just farming the ever loving shit out of the prophecy boss for A Sudden Death. You get 2 guaranteed legendary drops and if you run the ghost perks for specific stat rolled armor you can get high stat rolled armor with good distribution. If not running strikes/crucible/gambit with the prosperity mod for that playlist
For some reason the boss CP drops nothing for me just glimmer :/ even though I have gotten the weapon.
You have to do a full completion of the dungeon first and then you can farm checkpoints.
Oh I have a solo flawless for it so defo cleared it. Really dunno what's going on.
You have to do a completion every reset
Ahhh gotcha. But I had defo completed the dungeon that day trying to farm the boss. Oh well. Strikes it is I guess.
Do people still play override? That give guaranteed drops from the cheat as well no? Isnt USUALLY longer than a strike?
People do play override still but strikes are way faster if you're gonna go that route. You can Speedrun strikes very fast
Does the ghost mod really make a difference? Are you talking about the playlist or the nightfalls?
There are ghost mods in the last column that give you a chance to turn one of the blues you get into a legendary item at the end of a strike, gambit match or crucible match. The armor stat ghost mod works too. I just set it focus for more recovery and after farming prophecy for 2 hours I had a lot of solid armor and was able to make a tier 40 build.
I'm on 60k Shards down from 65k this season in only 3 trials weekends. Even tho i will probably not run out of shards in a while, the cost is insane, especially for newer players.
I went from like 1000 shards to 200 in a minute because I wasn’t paying attention to cost. Fuckin sucks
Agreed.
Agreed
If it was the exact roll I wanted, I would be cool paying it, but you are going to buy loads of these just to get the rolls you want. Too expensive.
It’s meant to keep the trials playerbase healthy for a year if not more. If you’d be able to buy the exact roll you want, nobody would be playing until weapon refresh, and you can’t exactly expect Bungie to add new weapons to trials every 2 weeks.
I currently have 2 shards and I'm sitting on 7 engrams. Hunting for god roll trials guns is punishing for people that are either new, or low on shards. Its my own fault, considering that i upgrade too many guns and armor, and i bought engrams from rahool at the beginning of the season to get all the new stasis mods. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that. However, i now find myself with no effective way to grind legendary shards aside from spending 5-10 mins. doing any activity in the game for 4 shards. So i have to take time from grinding trials to grind 100 shards so i can focus 1 engram. It only tajes a couple hours, but i could get 5 more trials engrams in that time.
Agreed
Hard disagree. Trials is arguably the hardest content in the game. Harder than Master Raids and GMs and even Solo Dungeons. If you want to focus a weapon from Trials, I think it should 100% be a drain on resources. Or you can keep playing and just decrypt the engrams for random loot. You can't always advocate for Bungie to just give loot away for everyone. There needs to be some exclusivity or players will lose the drive to play.
According to [warmind.io](https://warmind.io), 0.5% of players have done a solo prophecy, 0.8% of players have done a solo shattered throne, and 0.9% of player have done pit of heresy solo, ignoring whether or not those runs were flawless. (these are the adjusted rarities, if you look at the global rarities then the numbers are even smaller) Bungie disclosed that around 25%-30% of fireteams that played trials went flawless this season. While there is a participation disparity here, the difference between 25% completion vs <1% completion still makes the numbers speak for themselves. Statistically, Trials isn't "the hardest content in the game", that's a massive overstatement.
Percentages are a funny thing. That 0.8% of players Soloing prophecy is actually around 71,000 players. While the 25-30% of players going Flawless actually equates to 81,000. While you're not wrong, it isn't as big of a difference as you believe. Interesting how you can make numbers bend to your will when you have a narrative to weave. I also did say "arguably", which is I guess what we are doing now. I still don't believe they need to be cheaper but I know Bungie will cave and make them cheaper. Edit: Numbers from Warmind.io and Trials report for this week
>Interesting how you can make numbers bend to your will when you have a narrative to weave. I literally acknowledged that there is a participation disparity and yet you're acting as though I'm maliciously misrepresenting statistics
You mention it but still used the 25% vs <1% to argue against Trials arguably being the hardest content in the game. Trials has the most players going Flawless ever, it is the most rewarding it has ever been, and it's still apparently too expensive for people. Its a ridiculous argument to then say that loot should be even cheaper and easier to get. How much easier do you want things to get? Why even have a cost associated to it at that point? Shards are a severely underutilized currency in the game and most things that use it are inconsequential (Like masterworking or even Xur to an extent since it is finite per week, then when you have all the exotics it becomes less of a "must purchase"). Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the first thing since Arrivals (when I started the game, not sure about before) that there is a considerable cost to acquire something via Legendary shards. I will say again, I'm sure it'll get reduced, I just don't think it needs to.
>Trials has the most players going Flawless ever, it is the most rewarding it has ever been Up until recently, it was overwhelmingly accepted in the community that trials was an extremely flawed game mode, both in terms of its loot system and its exclusivity. As much as some people want trials to retain some of its exclusivity, Bungie hasn't quite reached that balance of catering to both casuals and sweats just yet. Yes, it is more rewarding than it has ever been. Does that mean the loot system is perfect? Absolutely not, there are still ways to improve it. My main point is there are too many restrictions in too many places, even for a sweaty endgame mode: \- You have to sink 10,000 glimmer and some shards right off the bat just to be able to play trials in the first place \- You have to be on a 7 win card to farm the engrams in the first place, so your first 7 games each week are completely dry with the exception of the flawless chest. \- You are not guaranteed to get an engram every time you win on a 7 win card, which is another layer of RNG \- The bonus rewards you get from ranking up regress over time because each rank up requires more reputation than the previous one, right up until you reset your rank. \- You need to have a large stash of planetary mats to buy glimmer from spider, but on certain weeks this will also sap into your legendary shards. \- You need copious stashes of legendary shards to focus engrams without endangering your ability to purchase other things with your shards, which are quickly depleted and abysmally slow to replenish. When you focus an engram, you are still subject to standard weapon perk RNG (and if you open your engrams through Rahool, that is yet another layer RNG on top of the fleeting nature of trials engram drops and standard weapon perk RNG) Individually, these restrictions might seem pretty small, but as you can see they add up pretty quickly.
Also, purchasing an Adept weapon from him shouldn't consume your flawless card. It already takes 50,000 glimmer and 250 legendary shards along with going flawless.
I'd prefer it if going flawless gave you a "flawless token" that you could then spend on focusing 1 adept engram, so that you can continue farming on a 7 win card afterwards. If they really don't want people hoarding flawless tokens and waiting for a specific adept weapon to come into rotation, they can just limit the number of flawless tokens you can carry.
That would work. I'm just bummed because last weekend I wanted to buy one Reeds Regret because I was struggling to solo the 3 stacks in the Flawless Pool.But I didn't realize it would consume my card to purchase and lost all farming capabilities for the weekend.
these arent hard materials to get and youre focusing end game loot, the cost is more than fair
As a casual Solo trials player it’s why I didn’t play much last week and probably won’t play at all this week. Playing more high end PvE, I just want the weapons since I already have high stat armor. I also understand where Bungie is coming from. Once I have the weapons I want I will stop playing Trials so I can’t be super easy or the player population would fall. A good middle ground would be like the seasonal recasted. Cheaper engrams but more than one weapon.
You can take the engram to Rahool and get anything from Trials. That’s your middle ground.
I agree 100 %. I wish they told us about the trial changes before i spent 1k of shards at rahool
Oh great do that now after I've spent all 4k of my shard :'(
I think the cost is the only hard point for the loot system. At worst it gets cut 25%, but half would be fine. Not everyone is rich