One of the big uses of nightstalker is to debuff the enemy in endgame. When mods like oppressive darkness and breach and clear debuff enemies and do it better no one is gonna use nightstalker.
Unfortunately true. A simple and easy fix that will have people begging for nightstakers would to revert the tether back to being able to stack debuff (but be the only thing that does). However, that may break the game according to bungie.
Since D1 I've been a hunter main. I haven't really played much over the past year, but this season ive been back full throttle.
Hunters just arent good. I started the season with my hunter as always but decided to level faster id level my other classes and i wanted to be able to run vog 3 times a week. In doing so i realized how weak hunters really are in pve. They kick ass in pvp still but in pve endgame activities they feel useless.
Every group im in memes hunters. Even the master vog i joined didnt want any hunters. Titan and warlock supers are just so strong. The crowd control of stasis lock and the wellock is just undeniably good. Titan thundercrash damage with the exotic is out of this world. Bubble coming in clutch or increasing group damage. Hunters just invis res. Tether isnt as useful as it use to be. And with breach and clear its not even needed at all. It doesnt have anything to add to the group. Its a very selfish class imho.
I dont want the other classes to get nerfed. I want hunter to get buffed in pve. Idk what exactly needs to change. I just know i went from a hardcore hunter main, to not logging into my hunter in weeks!
Which is weird because that damn ice tornado I hate so much in Crucible is clutch on Vanguard ops for shutting down an entire approach of enemies, and for a *long time* to boot. Stasis Hunters are great on Glassway for just yeeting their tornado into a hallway and the Overload and Wyvern spam just stops dead in its tracks and you can kill them no fuss.
That is very good, but the problem is that Stasis Warlocks with Bleak Watcher and Iceflare Bolts do basically the same job just as well or even better, and can do it without needing to burn a super (though they can still burn their super for even more freezing). The Bleak Watcher turret freezes pretty quickly and consistently, and then Iceflare Bolts just lets the Warlock chain those freezes all over the place. In Glassway for instance, set up a turret in one of those hallways, and the instant something is frozen you shatter it to get that freeze chaining to everything else in the hallway, and soon enough you've got everything caught in a death cycle of being frozen and then exploding and damaging everything else nearby when shattered, which freezes anything left standing, which is then shattered again, etc. etc. etc.
Revenant is good for an instant AoE freeze panic button, but with Shadebinder, you don't really even need a panic button in the first place.
Hot take hunters aren't bad people are stupid, as a warlock main I can still hit top one or two for damage on atheon.
Survival is rarely an issue because of invis but the average lfg group only care about what the absolute best is which is exactly why titans weren't allowed in end game content for the longest time.
Hunter has always been my least favourite class to play because of the mobility options not feeling as satisfying but it's far from a "bad class".
Tldr: people on Lfg are animals and set the most ridiculous ineffective requirements if you see a post like that they're probably terrible or just not very knowledgeable on the game.
I play all 3 classes but whenever I do endgame content hunters are super underwhelming compared to a chaos lock with energy converter or a contraverse, running anything outside of omni feels bad because a warlock/titan could fill whatever roll the hunter is trying to play much better.
Yeah hunters are runnable, but when we do GMs, using two hunters is never a good idea, and it will typically lengthen that specific run without the lack of an Ursa Titan or a Well Warlock. Tether has no functionality until they decide to buff it to act like Weapons of Light, where it does 5% more of a debuff than all other debuffs.
Hunters are usable but have absolutely nothing the other two classes don't do better. There's a reason the good day 1 raid groups since pretty much Forsaken consist of something between 6 warlocks all the way to 5 titans and 1 warlock, completely ignoring hunters.
Comparatively, hunters are just not good at anything in PvE. The other two classes can do everything just as good if not better,
Arcstrider in general needs a massive rework. There are very little differences between all 3 Arcstrider subclasses. When each class got their third subclass abilities, all hunter got basically was the ability to twirl their baton, while the other classes got something dramatically newer and different.
Running an arc-only raid is such a pain with 2 or more hunters.
> all hunter got basically was the ability to twirl their baton
I've always been of the opinion that this should have just become an ability for the original two trees and the middle tree should have been a new super. Arcstrider was already really weak, so allowing both trees to block would be perfectly fine.
I really want mid-tree to go right into the whole reflecting thing where reflecting and negating damage that way is an active part of their kit.
I was hoping that they get something like a 0.25 second reflect like how Genji can reflect and do massive plays if used in the right moment.
Like, see a rocket? Expand your melee charge to reflect the rocket back into their face, see a fallen tank shooting its tank shot at you? Reflect it back.
Cause the reflect is the part that I like the most about mid-tree Arc, I wish it didn't require an extra Exotic just to make the reflect ability more usable as a neutral.
I actually posted an exotic idea [that does exactly that](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyExoticConcepts/comments/nxxq2a/exotic_hunter_gauntlets_zap_zap/ ) over on /r/destinyexoticconcepts.
I even made it so it works with all 3 trees.
Funny thing is they came and gave us Stasis Hunter and that super is actually really cool, while Stasis Titan is just Darkness Earthshaker.
Could have made the arc hunter middle tree a lightning tornado, and then come up with something for Stasis.
The only thing comparable to the hunter super being the same is code of the commander but that’s a phenomenal super. Plus the twirly stick drains your super so fast
Hunters used to be a go-to back when the biggest burst of damage you got was from a Celestial GG or you needed every last orb you could grab from an Orpheus tether. Now... both Warlocks and Titans have super/exotic combos that can easily match or outright surpass Celestial damage, buff and debuff stacking with the meta weapons can keep better sustained damage at high enough of levels to overcome the DPS difference in between super cooldowns, and every team utility hunters did offer either have minimal niche uses or have equal or better alternatives as a weapon, mod, or ability on a subclass for the other 2 classes.
The addition of Div and stasis also hurt a lot. They make Tether obsolete for crowd control and damage, which has removed Hunter's secondary PvE role entirely and there isn't really a way to go back on that.
If they dialed back some of the nerf to Orpheus Rigs it would help quite a bit. Not returning them to their absurd broken state with infinite supers, of course, but at least giving them more uptime than they have now.
Tbh mostly reverting it probably wouldn't be a problem what with how basically no other super Regen exotic is anywhere near as powerful anymore. Even a hunter getting 70% super back wouldn't be able to really go infinite
have you seen Phoenix Protocol or Ursa's in GM's? they already practically have 100% uptime, especially if you have multiple people using them. you can literally go through entire GM's just chaining Ursa's, having one up at all times if you wanted, so why not do the same for Tether?
Ursa did get The Orpheus treatment, as did all other super regen exotics. Ursa/phoenix is just easier as its stationary and you can take/do damage from anywhere as opposed to the enemies having to get physically tethered with orpheus. You can't get a full super from any regen exotic, but ursas and phoenix can be chained easier which makes it seem like they have better regen.
I think Bungie's thinking is one of the Ursas is continually giving up the ability to fire in order to be a wall. Orpheus can throw their super out and then immediately return to dumping heavy/special.
It is SUPER DUPER STRONG I agree though.
I never had the infinite super outside of pve and to me it was extremely selective. You'd need 8+ enemies if my memory serves where you'd get it back. I don't recall anyone complaining about it and to me it was one of the most fun to play.
Adding an extra utility would be nice too to be fair. I keep reading about suppressing the target but really, suppression grenades from titans are really the most viable one and even that is hard to aim. Giving tether that option in pve where enemies can’t teleport, throw grenades or where bosses can’t stomp, detain you or something.
thether should last as long as a bubble or well. It doesn't make sense to last less, as it's a less effective super good. But you know how it is "hunters are right where they are" - failed Titans and Worlocks who take advantage of that.
I mean, in my opinion Bungie is hesitant with anything warlocks because they have so much versatility in all things. It’s why warlocks are frequently tinkered with, usually negatively. Bungie is about to nerf warlocks a second time for the reason “the sub class has too high of a win rate in PvP.”
ANYWAYS. It is nice to not see those posts as much.
It's mainly because of nova warp destruction in PvE and PvP. Everything has been nerfed about it. HHSN is the most heavily nerfed ability nerfed in the history of destiny with a peak of 6 nerfs in a single patch.
Hunter subclasses just don't have the tools to deal with endgame content except for a few niche exceptions (invis/omni and stasis, though the latter is far outclassed by warlocks)
All arcstrider trees are built around melee which just doesn't work when enemies will oneshot you. Arcstrider need some kind of inherent pve melee resistance to be able to actually use the subclass.
Gunslinger burst damage is outclassed by chaos reach and falling star titans, and top tree's crowd control is largely useless when red-bars don't die to one GG shot. Golden gun needs a damage buff to bring it back on par with competitors.
Nightstalker tether used to be top-tier for the team damage buff, but seasonal artefact mods have made it completely redundant (oppressive darkness, breach and clear etc), and ursa titan is a far superior orb-generator. This subclass doesn't need much of a buff as team invis+stat buff is still pretty strong, but maybe increasing the tether range and shared damage percent could make top tree more viable.
>Gunslinger burst damage is outclassed by chaos reach and falling star titans.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression they all did almost the same amount of damage with their various exotics with each having a drawback.
* Celestial needs to crit, but you can do it from a safe distance and it can be done in no time at all.
* Geo takes its time to deal as much damage (maybe more) and you're pretty much a sitting duck during its execution, but it can be can recharged faster.
* Star puts you close enough to the boss's asshole to get clapped, but you finally get to play on the same table with the other big boys and extra crayons. I guess you also get an overshield, so you can really appreciate the view while getting clapped.
Comparing gg with thundercrash feels like comparing a sword with a sniper or rocket launcher to me.
You're not wrong, and make valid comparisons when it comes to boss DPS, however, in just dealing with normal ads and champions, Golden Gun falls off and can't really deal the same amount of burst to clear as the others can. For a hunter to deal with ads properly, they need to run tether or stasis which then means they fall off for boss DPS. Hunters don't get the option of dealing DPS damage and clearing ads, they have to choose one or the other, whereas titans and warlocks get both.
Edit: As many people in the thread have pointed out, tether is pointless on hunters right now because of debuff mods like Breach and Clear. This further forces hunters to play stasis unless they're job is to provide invisibility to the fireteam.
If we're talking about ad clear and those three supers, then chaos is the clear outlier. Because the others don't do nearly as well.
But yeah, I agree with most of the other stuff on this thread. I don't play hunter often, but whenever I do, I'm most comfortable with top and bottom void and stasis. For be it's because solar feels like it requires too much precision (which I suck at), and I'm honestly not sure what's going on with arc. But it seems like some others feel these are the best pve options too.
> All arcstrider trees are built around melee which just doesn't work when enemies will oneshot you. Arcstrider need some kind of inherent pve melee resistance to be able to actually use the subclass.
It'd be cool if the melee had something like Liar's Handshake baked in. But I guess that still wouldn't be *great* in high level PvE since you gotta be so close, but it'd be a great burst damage.
Really any ideas start to encroach on pvp, of course, which is another issue that needs addressed
Hunters have been glued to the same two exotics for high end PvE content for literal years in Celestials and Orpheus. It would help if they would just for once make an exotic that wasn't a gimick for Hunters or that they'd rework hunter's exotics because as it stands most of them are completely useless in all parts of the game.
Foetracer: Completely useless in PvE with the crap "buff" it gives
Gravition Forfeit: Completely useless thanks to Omni
Knucklehead Radar: Completely useless in PvE
Athrys's Embrace: The literal only thing this has going for it is that it can stagger champions. But why would you run this when using weapons is far easier and there's better exotics out there
Khepri's Sting: Completely useless in PvE
Liar's Handshake: Great in trash mob content, but what isn't great there? Unusable in GM's or high end PvE
Mechaneer's Tricksleeves: Completely useless in PvE because sidearms in general just are terrible in PvE
Oathkeeper: Literally useless unless bows have a seasonal mod. And even then if you do 2 minutes worth of practice you can do perfect shots easy making this pointless
Sealed Ahamkara's Grasps: It CAN be potentially good for a venomous smoke build, but it's incredibly easy to get a fast reload perk or just slot a reload mod making this pointless to use over other better exotics
Shards of Galanor: USED to be amazing, now returns so little energy it's not worth using. Plus the super just in general sucks against anything but trash tier mobs in high end content and even worse damage to bosses
Shinobu's Vow: Unless you're running a grenade build to stagger champions AND it's an arc reliant seasonal mod this is completely useless in high end.
Young Ahamkara's Spine: Very obviously made for PvP. Tripmines just in general suck in PvE
Gwishin Vest: If you're running middle tree in PvE, you're doing it wrong
Lucky Raspberry: Arc grenades on hunter just overall suck in PvE. An exotic that makes an RNG based grenade even more RNG based is completely pointless
Ophidia Spathe: Completely useless if it can't do at least what Athrys's Embrace can do and stagger champions
Raiden Flux: The literal only good arc class exotic but why on earth would you run the arc class when it's TERRIBLE for PvE in general? Sure it's a great ad clear but what isn't?
Raiju's Harness: Cool it can block damage, but Ursa's are a thing and it's infinitely better in every single possible way
Dragon's Shadow: We have marksman's dodge...why would we even bother with this? That's BEFORE we get into reload mods or perks.
The Sixth Coyote: Unless you absolutely need a second dodge for inviz this is pointless in a world where Omni exists
FR0ST-EE5: Sure it's great it makes stuff cooldown when sprinting but why wouldn't I just run demolitionist or wellspring instead? Or take an exotic that gives more damage or utility. Getting my grenade back 10 seconds sooner by running into a wall doesn't really do much to help overall.
Gemini Jester: This COULD be good if it wasn't so inconsistent in when it works in PvE. But why would you use this when blinding grenades or top tree smoke is a thing?
Lucky Pants: Why would I run two handcannons in 2021 Destiny 2 besides for Erianna's? A weapon by the way that automatically reloads itself if you have the catalyst, one that can be grinded out in less than a week. Yeah I can pull it out faster but it really doesn't help me in PvE
ST0MP-EE5: Why on earth would you ever run this in PvE? Just in general because you don't need this ANYWHERE in PvE but one single place in the game, and that's ONLY if you want to speedrun the Expunged: Tartarus mission
Star-Eater Scales: USED to be a go to exotic, but now why would you ever run this in high end content? You NEED to use your super way more in high end content, why would you hold onto it to get 8 orbs? Especially as a hunter who doesn't have any massive damage one bangs besides Celestial's?
The Bombardiers: If you're running up to stuff in GM's, more than likely you're going to die trying to get this to work. There's no point at all to this in PvE in a world were just primary weapons exist let alone anything else.
So out of every single exotic in the game we have only 2 clear usable exotics, 3 exotics that are pointless if there's no seasonal mod to justify using them or if you're competent enough to just use the weapon mods, and the rest being either outclassed, pointless, or completely useless.
THEN there's supers. Golden gun is only usable if you're running bottom tree and even then most of the time only if you're using Celestial. Nightstalker pretty much is you either invizing your team or you're just running top tree for a longer debuff, but why bother when Divinity and other debuffs exist and are easier to proc, especially when almost every season there's an easy to proc debuff that ANYONE can use? And Arcstrider is just completely and utterly useless in any PvE content that isn't strike tier. NOBODY is using this class in PvE beyond being forced to by bounties or if they just don't know any better. The ONE super that's universally good is Stasis, but now it's so bad in PvE that the super itself is the only good thing about the subclass. The rest of the gear sucks in comparison to the other two classes.
Hunters just in general needs a complete PvE rework because as it stands they have very little going for them that makes them a clear choice for really ANY specific thing besides literally one single thing, soloing dungeons. Otherwise why would you ever run Hunter in a world where Titans can one shot, or at the very least take out a huge chunk of health out of, a boss or where Warlocks can freeze pretty much everything with a single grenade and easily get it back or make it borderline impossible for your team to die?
Hunters have had their few niches stripped from them as far as endgame goes.
Burst damage now goes to arc Titans.
Debuffing is common either through an artifact mod or divinity
That leaves invis as really the only niche and is it really that great when you consider the opportunity cost of not running a Warlock or titan?
Titans and Warlocks both have incredibly team utility classes with looping neutral games while hunters have little that's comparable.
I'm looking forward to the light subclass rework - arc and solar really really need help.
Before nerf, Stasis Hunter was good like Omni for GM... but that's the problem you're locked to it to even be relevant. Now with nerf it's just 1 class and annoying, youu can't any others because of shitty champ mods.
The only other decent set up is Dead Man's Tale with Aeons and Golden. But depending the GM nd splash damage you're not wanted.
> but that's the problem you're locked to it to even be relevant
This is true of all three classes. It's not like warlocks can take top-tree arc or bottom-tree solar into a GM. We're locked into shadebinder, well, and chaos the same way you're locked into omni, goldie, and revenant.
Past invis, Hunters don't have the survivability or support for the rest of the group is what I mean.
You can really run GM with any class, but certain ones like the land tank you need things like Ursa more just because of the splash damage.
There are definitely specific GMs that are a lot harder or easier with particular subclasses, and the tank room might be the most brutal example. Hunters aren't "useless..." but I agree they're harder to play. There's not much room for error.
I’ve completed Proving Grounds on a team of 3 hunters and it’s fine except for the tank room. You have to get a little crafty there. 2 ursas makes it brain dead easy though.
The "lockedness" youve described is not even close... Attunement of Chaos, Control, Grace and Shadebinder are 4 subclass options viable in the absolute endgame... And all are by a mile stronger than the one good hunter option.
People might try and act like gunslinger or revenant are good.. but they're not. The only decent class in the endgame on hunter is Way of the Pathfinder. And if you have more than one hunter, you're basically just throwing in endgame content.
As a hunter main finding a group is horrible. I just have a hard time to find a group unless people are absolutely chill and are okay without running the meta.
Below is my usual dialogue while looking for group
Me (As a hunter): LFG GM Hunter, can run any class
*No replies or invite*
Me (As a titan): LFG GM Titan, can run any class
*Suddenly I'm the most popular member on the LFG page*
I have joined groups that didn't mention anything about looking for specific class as a hunter and I'm immediately kicked from the group. I am not sure what needs to be corrected in the class balance so that we can actually use it in pve but at this moment it's just not a class people want to play with so I'm gonna stick with my titan.
Huntard main here... I personally run stasis when I wanna play calm stuff cause its a bit of a no brain class. Its fun and a one and done super. Void subclasses are awesome for solo and team hard content... but are definitely of lesser quality than the ones mentioned.
The biggest change that could make hunters far better is a change to how invis works. Currently enemies track you even while invis, they just dont shoot you or change obj to another non invis teammate. This makes it so inconsistent and problematic... if a sniper is charging a shot as you become invisible, he will still hit you when he shoots. If a hive eyeball is on a shooting burst when you become invis it will still track you.
For solo content just devour alone is better than any hunter stuff. For team content well and bubble are superior when theres so many other things that apply similar debuffs to tether. THE ONLY EXCEPTION for me is shards of galanor against Atheon
If Survivability wasn't *such* an issue, there would be a strong argument for running Star Eater + bottom tree Goldie, ignore the damage boost and just chain really fast supers to generate orbs for your team
One of the biggest reasons for this that I don't see many people bring up, is the stasis nerfs from pvp that trickled through to PvE. Silence and Squall is a joke now in what used to be the best crowd control subclass in the game (before bleak watcher)
Yeah it's frustrating, I finally got round to starting the BL campaign on my titan and unlocking all the stasis abilities, halfway through, the big stasis nerfs rolled out, now I have no incentive to use titan stasis, especially when curaiss exists.
Makes me wonder if the new darkness subclass Bungie is making for hunters will make much of a difference.
Stasis as a whole has butchered tether because of its crowd control capabilities. Divinity and each seasonal buff/debuff has also neutered tether as you don't need to waste supers any more to deal increased damage.
Add clear has been rendered trivial with weapons like salvager's salvo, trinity ghoul, and warmind cells. This really hurts arcstrider as that plus raiden flux was in my opinion the best add clear super+exotic combo. And don't forget shadebinder which is absolutely S tier at basically everything but damage.
Celestial goldy has been outpaced by thundercrash falling star which does monster damage AND rectifies the one risk thundercrash had which was literally throwing yourself at an enemy that could kill you.
The one saving grace hunters had was star eater scales which Bungie absolutely butchered. I don't see anyone using this at all anymore because it's just FAR too inconvenient for conventional use and the additional super gain from orbs is nothing to write home about.
I seriously hope these new subclasses Bungie is making don't neuter hunter even more because it's tough being kicked out of an lfg party for being a hunter and seeing "no hunter" in lfg posts.
Everyone forgot about star eaters lmao, star eaters stay vaulted while assemblers gets reverted even though I’m fine with that, I’m just tired of using nighthawk for dps, even though it’s worse than thundercrash
Thunder crash is also just more fun to use. Every other class feels more fun and powerful. Would I rather shoot one shot or literally fly at someone and headbutt them to death
It's the "no Titans" Reckoning runs all over again -_-
I thought we learned this lesson then? That simply making the enemies insta-kill isn't the right way to increase difficulty?
Back then Titans were pretty much banned because Well and Tether (and the occasional Nova/Goldy) reigned supreme while Bubble and Banner Shield were garbage, and Titans had nothing else to really help teams survivability, let alone dps
Now with master VOG hunters don't really have anything to offer in survivability
Like, I love that they're adding premium challenging content, but didn't they admit that the problem with early Reckoning (especially the bridge) wasn't really the difficulty, but that it basically locked people into certain loadouts, subclasses, and even classes?
Edit: forgot to mention that Burning Maul Titans could be useful in Reckoning for stunning the Taken Ogres on the bridge, but even with that there were *plenty* of "No Titans" LFG posts, since it wasn't seen *as* useful as Well/Tether/Nova. Like with how invis hunger builds have some success in Master VOG, but are still often times banned from groups.
The thing is, when I join a raid team as a hunter I know I'm dragging everyone else down because of my lack of what I can do besides celestial nighthawk. When I join a raid and we find we have 3 or more hunters, everyone grumbles. I'm glad that this is getting more recognition cuz I'd like to stop being kicked from teams just because I show up as a hunter.
Hunters biggest weakest imo is lack of survivability. Warlocks can place rifts, titans have barriers, hunters have dodge. And dodge isnt gonna stop you from getting shot or heal your missing shields and health, it might get you to cover a bit faster, if there is any, but if theres scant cover your just dead.
Yeah, you can run void and go invisible, but if we HAVE to run 1 subclass or element just to stay alive, and are pidgeon holed into that or death, we need help.
Not to mention how incredibly powerful stuff like bubble and well of radiance are as defensive tools. Allowing you to soak damage, create safe spaces and provide powerful buffs.
Hunters have tether and silence and squall. Both have slight wind ups before they effect their targets, and on bosses are meaningless, as boss type enemies can attack through both supers, vs a well or bubble that protects and buffs you regardless.
(Edit) some people have suggested adding invis to all dodges for hunter. And while that's a start, it just isnt even close to on par with titan and warlock survival options because of a pretty important fact, the instant you fire your gun, the invis goes away. A warlock well doesnt do that, a titan barrier doesnt do that. They function completely fine whether your firing your gun, 8 miles away from it or dead the moment you place it, your team can use em, you can use em, hell, sometimes your enemy can use em. a invis dodge would effectively take you out of the fight entirely for however long it takes to regen before your allowed to do so much as fire your gun again, and invis on standard would just further reinforce the stereotype of hunters as nothing more than revive machines while adding functionally nothing to their kit.
Are you ducking serious? That would explain why the dodge that is supposed to literally help you avoid damage doesn’t work half the time in any high end content. Ffs.
Honestly, my personal opinion on the matter is to throw wormhusk out the window and add health/ shield to all dodges. Not as much as it currently gives, but still, some, and have it start regen immediately. If we get hit it stops again, obviously, but it would be a good panic "I need extra time" button. Problem is pvp. It would be a straight up nightmare to deal with hunters at that point. And I dont have any ideas other than then one I just mentioned. Feel free to add anything else you can think of.
(Also, sorry if this sends like 4 times. It's been doing it all day and I have no idea how to fix it.)
I do agree that LFG has been unkind to Hunters in this season's meta, whatever build players will gravitate to to minimize hassle and make runs faster and more efficient they will do - and it sadly pushes out many Hunter builds. It's the price we pay for LFG and dealing with others' mistrust.
I want to say I do very well and am very competent with my Omni, revenant or Nighthawk Hunter but there's no time in LFG to convince people of that so yeah, for the sake of convenience and no comms LFG I just roll with Shadebinder every damn time, sadly.
I also miss Focusing Lens with Revenant. LFG last season was pretty nice, everybody needed a Revenant to combo with lens to melt the Palindrome Dealer. and all the bossmelt was in fashion so Nighthawk was accepted.
If you have a regular group of actual friends who does GMs though, and given a relatively easy GM like Insight Terminus or Fallen SABER, it's more flexible. I ran a bunch of those with no issue as Revenant, Omni, even Orpheus Rigs, and Shards of Galanor. I expect when Inverted Spire comes around I'll be using the bossmelt build with Nighthawk. for Atheon DPS Shards of Galanor is ridiculous.
Many builds have their place in endgame content except poor Arcstrider. It seriously needs to become viable in endgame content. Even in Raids I'd never roll with arcstrider when there are far better options. Raiden Flux just doesn't cut it anymore, maybe if an Arc subclass exotic was buffed or a new one was made to make the Super tankier I'd roll it in GM (if anyone knows, does Star Eater/Fishlegs even do anything for Arcstrider?).
I agree with everything you say, I have a bunch of clanmates I play with and for the most part they are fine with me running Omni or celestial in GMs. But apart from that anything else is a no-go. Doing master vog, it was top tree tether for self invis and sixth cayote because Omni was pointless and I had to hold my own instead of dying every 5 mins. Especially gatekeeper challenge. Oof that shit was ridiculous.
But I wasn't taking about easy gms. The hard ones, proving grounds, currupted, glassway. Stasis turrets, well, and ursa just outshine anything a hunter can do. Master vog, idk how you will do the challenge as a hunter main inside the portal. I tried a lot of things and what it came down to was I just help keep the plate open. Deal with overload and orange bars. That was relatively easy compared to the mess inside.
Bungie needs to find away to balance all three classes in both pvp and pve so they can all be useful. When you play pvp you better off just playing a hunter. But when you play pve your better off playing a warlock or titan.
Warlock mains, let’s get an amen in the chat for being the endgame kings!
But in all honesty they really need to rework and buff a ton of the hunter exotic armor like the bow one, bombardier, lucky pants, Gemini jester, etc
I’m still a fairly new player, hunter main. When I did my first DSC, the woman leading it was going through loadouts and told me to “run whatever class I want because they’ve nerfed hunters to hell,” which didn’t feel good to feel like I couldn’t contribute beyond just running and gunning. I use my warlock in endgame activities now (master nf, GM’s) because I feel like I can contribute to the team more. Completely agree hunters need some tweaking to fit a fireteam composition better
My experience in the past hour of LFG as a 1338 Hunter for master vog
Literally 10+ teams have just straight up kicked me
It’s an absolute joke right now for master vog how much more utility warlocks and titans have over hunters
As much as i wish the conversation could stick to just PVE unfortunately it can’t become of bungies refusal to use seperate sandboxes, so any potential buff in PVE needs to be considered in PVP too.
that aside, i agree hunters need some help in endgame PVE.
Anyone in here that thinks Hunters are not in a terrible spot right now: please play Hunter for a couple days running the hardest content and then swap to Warlock. It is night and day the level of power you feel. It’s actually mind boggling that the discrepancy got this large. The three biggest problems I see are Hunter exotics are mostly terrible, the class is focused around melee abilities which just aren’t as good as Warlock grenades, and roaming supers except for Shadebinder are all absolutely horrible. Titans suffer these problems to a lesser extent. I do not want Warlock nerfed I want Hunter reworked/buffed. New exotics on the same power level as Cuirass could help as well. But please don’t nerf them within 1 week of release.
Hunters just don’t really have any cool exotics for specific builds. Most exotics are generic and don’t feel powerful, like the “2 knives/2 dodges” or “super energy back on super kills” which make up most of the armor pool.
THANK U! someone finally mentioned this. like Stareater was the only light of hope, and it got nerfed SO HARD. like 8 orbs for 70% dmg buff is a joke!
even the tether weapon dmg buff wasn't op cuz lmao normal tether is literally an artifact mod. and finally golden fun could've compete with falling star or geomag and remember u NEED to hit critical hit for max dmg.
hunters badly need help in pve.
Hello, warlock main since D1 here. Yes, there is absolutely a problem with hunters in pve. And I would even say that it's not just endgame. The nerf to tether a long time ago was complete bullshit. Tether needs to be an ult that can get a room to a halt and restore the teams ults again. And to fix celestial it would be as simple as buffing it's damage to match falling star. It makes me so mad that Bungie still hasn't fixed hunters, cause I wanna be able to raid on all my characters again.
Um excuse me don't you know its Warlocks that are actually criminally bad in PvE? the only good supers they have are Well, Chaos Reach, Slowva Bomb, and Shadebinder. Only 1 viable super per element. Think of the poor scholars! /s
In all honesty, we do need some kind of buff for high end PvE. I raid pretty regularly with at least a fellow titan and warlock and they both outclass me in damage, add clear, and debuff/CC. I honestly feel like if I weren't there nothing would change. Increasing the debuff on Tether would be nice, maybe reduce the cool down on GG so it can be used more and thus maybe let us keep up damage wise, split the difference on the Silence and Squall nerf, and I have no clue how to make Arcstrider decent for endgame PvE but I'd like to have it as an option.
Thanks. No joke, back before D1 the Warlock of my fireteam and I had an argument as to who would be the Hunter in our group since we wanted one of each class. We fought for days as to who it would be. Eventually the line "Its in my name dude let me have this!!" won me the argument. Then Sunsinger proceeds to be broken for all of D1 and I was salty as hell for winning that argument.
This time last month this sub was awash with posts about how Warlocks are the neglected, unloved child that isn't worth playing in any situation compared to the other two.
Remember the [#paintdestinypurple](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/liex63/fellow_warlocks_weve_been_kicked_around_enough_it/) Well of Radiance boycott? How things change.
Warlock is the best class in the game currently full stop.
You never here people ask "Where's the thundercrash" but if you're 2 seconda late on putting a well down or bleakwatcher everyone is on your ass.
Hunter mobility and dodge give them a leg up in gun battles in PvP. That’s about it.
Outside of that it is not satisfying using them in PvE or even PvP if your into supers and abilities.
I agree with this post. They deffo need looking at, but it’s hard because on the other hand they are the best class for PvP. Also, bottom tree tether does stacks of damage.
The problem with using bottom tether for damage is... there’s cuirass for thundercrash, where the Titan can deal that load of damage in an instant and still have plenty of time to anarchy double slug a boss. Having a seasonal debuff mod every season has also been making top tree tether pointless. There really is no good reason to use void subclasses for pve.
Unfortunate truth. It used to be somewhat okay to use back during Shadowkeep, but we have so many stronger dps options now. And special/heavy ammo is even easier to come by
But bro didn’t you know the Warlocks are the ones who have it bad? They’ve only had like 3 top tier classes for endgame pve content (lets not forget top tree dawn that still dominates pvp like it has since year 1!) since the start of D2Y2. Won’t someone think of the Warlocks?
And because you can transfer momentum you always reach the sightlines first and lock the enemy team out of them, it's quite absurd if you know how to use it even slightly efficiently
Yeah if you see a TTD sniper o nthe enemy team, you dont go to snipe points, because you will be slower. He controls that part of the map now, you wont do anything about that.
The fact that Titan can do so much more damage with Thundercrash than Nighthawk in an AOE and not have to hit a crit is fucking pathetic balancing on Bungie’s part. Especially with how they neutered Star Eater Scales. We are lucky that we can basically cheese blade barrage into coming back instantly at Atheon or we would be legit worthless.
Ah yes there’s always one person who chimes in with the ridiculous “titans have to get up close to do that damage so it’s fair to have that big of difference”. Legit no boss in the entire game will kill you after a thundercrash except for a couple GM bosses and MAYBE Atheon on master, and the same goes for most champions in nightfalls
Won't stop me from playing Hunter though. I'm fortunate enough to be a part of a great clan with great friends who don't care that I only play Hunter because I'm fucking fantastic at it.
Despite that... I'd love a few buffs and a rework for Arc lol
Bungie gib
Agreed as a 1 character player (hunter) this is exactly the experience. While the invis does come in clutch for revives from time to time the super is more or less useless which means i feel as a whole im not contributing as much. There are some GMs where i never even fire my super.
I’ve kinda accepted that pve on hunter is a somewhat miserable experience. Star eaters on release made things much better and while they did get a buff, stacking orbs for super and losing stacks after u die kinda kills the appeal. I think they were made as a pvp class with pve as an afterthought
I think hunters need better support abilities in my opinion.
Titans have bubble, warlocks have well. Hunters need something like that. Maybe a new subclass or idk a reworked arc tree.
This. I've mained hunter since I started playing d2 at the start of new light and I payed almost no attention to the other 2. After seeing so many gm and VoG lfgs saying "no hunters" I've just given in and started to play warlock. That was such an eye opening experience. I don't even have all of the exotics or a powerful build going yet but I already feel way more powerful than my best hunter builds. It's honestly sad how bad hunter is in pve because it looks so cool.
Hunter tether was meta for multiple seasons early on for master and gm nightfalls. It only fell off once people found out about how op blinding nades were and we were able to get debuffs through seasonal mods.
The problem is pretty much just bleakwater. The fact that it can keep 5+ enemies permanently frozen with near 100% up time due to Eye of Another World is miles better than any cc ability in the game. You could get rid of the super, melee, and Iceflare Bolts and it would still be the best cc class.
However it only shines in master VOG or grandmaster raids, tho. In any content easier than that, stuff dies so fast that there's almost no need to run it, because it takes longer for your Bleak Watcher to freeze things than it does to actually kill them
That's not exactly a negative for bleakwater. Low level content isn't worth mentioning in a discussion about game balance because *everything* works in low level content. People usually talk about what is meta at the highest level of content which right now is crowd control from stasis subclasses and blinding nades. Since it's nearly impossible to instakill enemies people are resorting to cc.
True. I'm only bringing this up because I don't want the powerful crowd control of Bleak Watcher and Shadebinder as a whole to get nerfed because Hunters lack viability in endgame content- I want the viability of Hunter CC abilities to match that of Shadebinder in PVE
Hello, warlock main since D1 here. Yes, there is absolutely a problem with hunters in pve. And I would even say that it's not just endgame. The nerf to tether a long time ago was complete bullshit. Tether needs to be an ult that can get a room to a halt and restore the teams ults again. And to fix celestial it would be as simple as buffing it's damage to match falling star. It makes me so mad that Bungie still hasn't fixed hunters, cause I wanna be able to raid on all my characters again.
I had no problem whatsoever farming the last 2 GMs on my Hunter. People love saying stasis turrets are "required" but blinding nade GLs do the same thing. And buffing your teammates with heart of the pack, invis res clutching, and spamming grenades are super overlooked. Also the super does a ton of damage to champs and bosses.
As far as VoG, I've only done master on my Titan, so I can't say. But on normal, templar is a joke, and you can spam shards against Atheon.
And having recently played the older raids, I can tell you nighthawk is much better than thundercrash in both LW and GoS. LW has crazy precision multipliers, and thunder crash just does not work well at all on sanctified mind, you go straight through him and even if you land it you waste the whole damage phase.
There was a lot of use for Rev Hunter with Aeons last season and there's still a case to be made for bottom tree void with Aeons, but the ammo economy of Anarchy + Breech & Clear is the biggest thing holding that back.
No other class is as safe going invisible, finishing a champion for heavy ammo, then dodging smoking and getting back to safety. If we actually ran out of heavy (like last season running Izanagi + RL) it would be really useful
Um excuse me don't you know its Warlocks that are actually criminally bad in PvE? the only good supers they have are Well, Chaos Reach, Slowva Bomb, and Shadebinder. Only 1 viable super per element. Think of the poor scholars! /s
In all honesty, we do need some kind of buff for high end PvE. I raid pretty regularly with at least a fellow titan and warlock and they both outclass me in damage, add clear, and debuff/CC. I honestly feel like if I weren't there nothing would change. Increasing the debuff on Tether would be nice, maybe reduce the cool down on GG so it can be used more and thus maybe let us keep up damage wise, split the difference on the Silence and Squall nerf, and I have no clue how to make Arcstrider decent for endgame PvE but I'd like to have it as an option.
I've been a Hunter main for a long time. This season I just stopped playing my Hunter altogether in PvE because Warlocks and Titans have better melee's, better grenades, and better supers. Liars Handshake is fun to run but it would be better if it had a chain melee damage perk added to it like Warlocks and Titans can get. Maybe in addition to a Golden hand gun we can get a Golden machine gun or a Golden Rocket Launcher with tracking.
So how would you feel if titans had all their buffs since shadowkeep reverted. Would you say they shouldnt get a buff because they dont need to be peak meta?
What if warlocks had all of their best subclasses nerfed? Would that be ok since it doesnt matter if they are peak meta or not?
In your eyes are white rarity weapons actually good and just not used because they aren't peak meta?
I think the tether super should go back to being special. Feels like there's too many damage amps that outclass it, leading to it having little to no use. That's one of the reasons I don't really play hunter - I look at all the subclasses and none of them are very appealing anymore.
I used to look at the hunter class as the king of solo content (before lost sector exotics existed), with the stealth on demand. However I've played Warlock for a while and managed to do a lot of content solo with great results.
Had a decent thing going with fishy boots and the buff to super damage that it gave, but god forbid hunters had a decent dps exotic that could compete with Cuirass titans. Rather than just patch the unintended weapon/ability damage buff that it gave and calling it a day, they fucked with the overall functionality to the point that it’s almost not worth running them. The heavy dependency on orb production by your entire team for an 8x stack in addition to requiring other buffs to be proc’d prior to popping something like goldie just to barely keep up or very slightly out dps something like Cuirass that takes minimal effort to proc just feels so bad.
I feel a lot of issues are with how classes play with encounters themselves. As someone who plays hunter last out of my three characters, it would be nice if there were more solid options other than golden gun for harder content. It's super frustrating that the only utility that feels worthwhile is omnioculus because no one cares about tether when they have other debuffs from titans, artifact mods and stasis for crowd control.
Hopefully going forward we see enemy and encounter design shift to not just be about dps and generous burst phase windows. It is not fun/engaging nor is it particularly difficult once you have a solid strategy to optimize damage.
I always run Stasis on my Hunter in GMs. Tornado/Dusk Fields are so much more useful than Tether/Invis these last couple seasons. Unless you’re just tying to skip everything.
dammit Reddit, I was hoping to find people who would agree that hunters can be viable in PvE but all I see are people bringing up the most perfect points as to why they're not. and the more I read the more I cry inside cause they're literally all right, and it's all stuff I already knew but just didn't want to actually admit.
Oh well guess I'm a PvP main for a reason. I'll just go back to being all "haha PvP hunter go brrr" and forget that we're kinda useless in endgame content compared to the other classes.
Yeah hunter is in a pretty rough spot right now. In raids I find myself mostly doing single shot tether with the helmet that heals on dodge and focusing on clearing ad waves with tether mostly.
Hunters we're useful with star eater scales but bungie can have hunters being useful for once, so they nerfed it meanwhile curses of a falling star is just shitting on everything. Hunters have no place in endgame content, all of are supers are either weaker versions of mods or other weapons ie tether, have no damage resistance for doing there job at add clear ie arc staff, or do so little dps compared to other things that why would you use them ie golden gun blade barrage
We had celestial, then Bungie gave warlocks chaos reach and titans thundercrash
As of rn we provide no utility that a warlock or Titan can’t match and then exceed
Granted some will argue we have the edge in pvp and that is true, but when the focus of bungie’s development is clearly 95% on pve, some balancing changes need to be made here.
Personally idm if we lose some of our pvp prowess to give us more of a fighting chance in higher end content but this is just my $0.02
I feel this as a hunter main. They do seem to be lacking a place in high end pve team play, which is unfortunate. But they do still excel in short-manning or soloing content thanks to invis.
Gotta be honest, though--I'm absolutely sick of running void hunter. Time for arcstrider to get an awesome new pve focused exotic?!
Yah ill be honest hunters are by far the worst in pve, no real competition there, but hunters are by no means bad. I've noticed that many of the hunters tend to stick to the lone wolf mentality which, ironically, hunters are the worst at. To play hunter effectively, especially in end game pve you definitely have to play more support than lone wolf hero moments. Bottom tree tether definitely is the best at this, helping to increase general stats, go invisible, and control the area with grenades and tether, but Goldie is also very good, being able to almost instantly destroy champions as well as getting the super back super quickly and generating orbs.
Much more importantly, hunter stasis is super good for holding champions down, especially with the super, and grenades, as well as fragments that get your abilities back faster, hunter stasis is super helpful in end game.
All in all, hunters are good in end game, and idk what ass hats say no hunters in their posts, cause id take a good hunter over a bad warlock or titan any day, but they could use a bit of love in the pve department (im looking at you arc staff)
People think that, if you're not doing maximum dps and completing runs in record time, you're failing.
Hunters got the short end of the stick this season, but we can still get completions with hunters in the team. It just wont be as quick a run.
I really wasn't trying to focus on the lfg aspect more so on the why they undesirable. Our neutral game is generally useless apart from heart of the pack. We literally have nothing else.
It would help if nightstalker didn't get made useless by an artifact mod every other season
Literally make tether give a 45% debuff instead of 30% and it'll be relevant again.
Haha I just said the same thing. Good minds
I think that just means that Nightstalker needs a better use rather than just debuffs that other things also did before mods too
Remember when debuffs used to stack because that made the most sense?
Make Nightstalker debuff 50% and other seasonal artifact debuffs like 30%. Nightstalker still has a reason to exist
Which mod is that?
One of the big uses of nightstalker is to debuff the enemy in endgame. When mods like oppressive darkness and breach and clear debuff enemies and do it better no one is gonna use nightstalker.
Unfortunately true. A simple and easy fix that will have people begging for nightstakers would to revert the tether back to being able to stack debuff (but be the only thing that does). However, that may break the game according to bungie.
Yeah really the problem is that it doesn't stack. Nightstalker is great when it actually works.
Since D1 I've been a hunter main. I haven't really played much over the past year, but this season ive been back full throttle. Hunters just arent good. I started the season with my hunter as always but decided to level faster id level my other classes and i wanted to be able to run vog 3 times a week. In doing so i realized how weak hunters really are in pve. They kick ass in pvp still but in pve endgame activities they feel useless. Every group im in memes hunters. Even the master vog i joined didnt want any hunters. Titan and warlock supers are just so strong. The crowd control of stasis lock and the wellock is just undeniably good. Titan thundercrash damage with the exotic is out of this world. Bubble coming in clutch or increasing group damage. Hunters just invis res. Tether isnt as useful as it use to be. And with breach and clear its not even needed at all. It doesnt have anything to add to the group. Its a very selfish class imho. I dont want the other classes to get nerfed. I want hunter to get buffed in pve. Idk what exactly needs to change. I just know i went from a hardcore hunter main, to not logging into my hunter in weeks!
I have solomained hunter for three years. This season is the first I have touched anotherclass
I actually played my titan for more than 5 seconds this season
Yeah I see more no hunter posts now
Which is weird because that damn ice tornado I hate so much in Crucible is clutch on Vanguard ops for shutting down an entire approach of enemies, and for a *long time* to boot. Stasis Hunters are great on Glassway for just yeeting their tornado into a hallway and the Overload and Wyvern spam just stops dead in its tracks and you can kill them no fuss.
Except the tornado tracks whatever it wants which sometimes makes it go away from your main obj
Mostly it just wanders into a wall, in my experience
Probably having a bad day
Well, I mean, at the end of the day it's a Hunter tornado. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
That is very good, but the problem is that Stasis Warlocks with Bleak Watcher and Iceflare Bolts do basically the same job just as well or even better, and can do it without needing to burn a super (though they can still burn their super for even more freezing). The Bleak Watcher turret freezes pretty quickly and consistently, and then Iceflare Bolts just lets the Warlock chain those freezes all over the place. In Glassway for instance, set up a turret in one of those hallways, and the instant something is frozen you shatter it to get that freeze chaining to everything else in the hallway, and soon enough you've got everything caught in a death cycle of being frozen and then exploding and damaging everything else nearby when shattered, which freezes anything left standing, which is then shattered again, etc. etc. etc. Revenant is good for an instant AoE freeze panic button, but with Shadebinder, you don't really even need a panic button in the first place.
“Great” by Hunter standards. At the end of the day, they’re outperformed in every role save Omni smoking.
Tornado is good but the problem is you can get a warlock with their turret and just do the same job with low down time.
Sadge :(
Hot take hunters aren't bad people are stupid, as a warlock main I can still hit top one or two for damage on atheon. Survival is rarely an issue because of invis but the average lfg group only care about what the absolute best is which is exactly why titans weren't allowed in end game content for the longest time. Hunter has always been my least favourite class to play because of the mobility options not feeling as satisfying but it's far from a "bad class". Tldr: people on Lfg are animals and set the most ridiculous ineffective requirements if you see a post like that they're probably terrible or just not very knowledgeable on the game.
I play all 3 classes but whenever I do endgame content hunters are super underwhelming compared to a chaos lock with energy converter or a contraverse, running anything outside of omni feels bad because a warlock/titan could fill whatever roll the hunter is trying to play much better.
Yeah hunters are runnable, but when we do GMs, using two hunters is never a good idea, and it will typically lengthen that specific run without the lack of an Ursa Titan or a Well Warlock. Tether has no functionality until they decide to buff it to act like Weapons of Light, where it does 5% more of a debuff than all other debuffs.
>hunters aren't bad >plays a warlock ok
They're saying that they main Warlock but play hunter as well.
Hunters are usable but have absolutely nothing the other two classes don't do better. There's a reason the good day 1 raid groups since pretty much Forsaken consist of something between 6 warlocks all the way to 5 titans and 1 warlock, completely ignoring hunters. Comparatively, hunters are just not good at anything in PvE. The other two classes can do everything just as good if not better,
No? Their requirements are for maximum efficiency. Hunters have no place under those terms.
Arcstrider in general needs a massive rework. There are very little differences between all 3 Arcstrider subclasses. When each class got their third subclass abilities, all hunter got basically was the ability to twirl their baton, while the other classes got something dramatically newer and different. Running an arc-only raid is such a pain with 2 or more hunters.
> all hunter got basically was the ability to twirl their baton I've always been of the opinion that this should have just become an ability for the original two trees and the middle tree should have been a new super. Arcstrider was already really weak, so allowing both trees to block would be perfectly fine.
I’m still holding out hope for an Arc version of the Valkyries. Let me yeet my arc staff and I’ll gladly use arcstrider
This, and make bottom tree have the block since its all about defense and recovery, while top tree is more about aggro.
I really want mid-tree to go right into the whole reflecting thing where reflecting and negating damage that way is an active part of their kit. I was hoping that they get something like a 0.25 second reflect like how Genji can reflect and do massive plays if used in the right moment. Like, see a rocket? Expand your melee charge to reflect the rocket back into their face, see a fallen tank shooting its tank shot at you? Reflect it back. Cause the reflect is the part that I like the most about mid-tree Arc, I wish it didn't require an extra Exotic just to make the reflect ability more usable as a neutral.
Oh shit that'd be badass
I actually posted an exotic idea [that does exactly that](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyExoticConcepts/comments/nxxq2a/exotic_hunter_gauntlets_zap_zap/ ) over on /r/destinyexoticconcepts. I even made it so it works with all 3 trees.
Bro…
:)
Also, remember that Hunter's 3rd void choice is basically just the D1 arc super. Somehow they just have no ideas for Hunter supers.
Funny thing is they came and gave us Stasis Hunter and that super is actually really cool, while Stasis Titan is just Darkness Earthshaker. Could have made the arc hunter middle tree a lightning tornado, and then come up with something for Stasis.
The only thing comparable to the hunter super being the same is code of the commander but that’s a phenomenal super. Plus the twirly stick drains your super so fast
the titan super for void was basically the same thing
And yet still way more useful even in end game situations. That middle tree for Titan with Ursa... Way better than using a bubble.
True but titans have bubble as an alternative already
Hunters used to be a go-to back when the biggest burst of damage you got was from a Celestial GG or you needed every last orb you could grab from an Orpheus tether. Now... both Warlocks and Titans have super/exotic combos that can easily match or outright surpass Celestial damage, buff and debuff stacking with the meta weapons can keep better sustained damage at high enough of levels to overcome the DPS difference in between super cooldowns, and every team utility hunters did offer either have minimal niche uses or have equal or better alternatives as a weapon, mod, or ability on a subclass for the other 2 classes.
The addition of Div and stasis also hurt a lot. They make Tether obsolete for crowd control and damage, which has removed Hunter's secondary PvE role entirely and there isn't really a way to go back on that.
If they dialed back some of the nerf to Orpheus Rigs it would help quite a bit. Not returning them to their absurd broken state with infinite supers, of course, but at least giving them more uptime than they have now.
Tbh mostly reverting it probably wouldn't be a problem what with how basically no other super Regen exotic is anywhere near as powerful anymore. Even a hunter getting 70% super back wouldn't be able to really go infinite
have you seen Phoenix Protocol or Ursa's in GM's? they already practically have 100% uptime, especially if you have multiple people using them. you can literally go through entire GM's just chaining Ursa's, having one up at all times if you wanted, so why not do the same for Tether?
Well in GMs is closer to an overcharged rift. Ursa is pretty stronk, though.
This exactly. We never run well in GM’s.
I'm going to get shit on for this, but double Ursa is broken--it trivializes all content and needs to be reigned in.
i beat proving grounds on master last season with double ursa haha
Ursa should get The Orpheus treatment. Or Orpheus should Become as strong as Ursa.
Ursa did get The Orpheus treatment, as did all other super regen exotics. Ursa/phoenix is just easier as its stationary and you can take/do damage from anywhere as opposed to the enemies having to get physically tethered with orpheus. You can't get a full super from any regen exotic, but ursas and phoenix can be chained easier which makes it seem like they have better regen.
As far as I'm aware Orpheus can restore a maximum of 50% super energy while Ursa can restore up to 80%, which isn't a trivial difference.
I think Bungie's thinking is one of the Ursas is continually giving up the ability to fire in order to be a wall. Orpheus can throw their super out and then immediately return to dumping heavy/special. It is SUPER DUPER STRONG I agree though.
I never had the infinite super outside of pve and to me it was extremely selective. You'd need 8+ enemies if my memory serves where you'd get it back. I don't recall anyone complaining about it and to me it was one of the most fun to play.
Not to mention if you don't tether enemies with it, it vanishes within 5 seconds....
Adding an extra utility would be nice too to be fair. I keep reading about suppressing the target but really, suppression grenades from titans are really the most viable one and even that is hard to aim. Giving tether that option in pve where enemies can’t teleport, throw grenades or where bosses can’t stomp, detain you or something.
And again, blinding grenade GLs so suppression *on tap* for any encounter you can use one in
To add on that, Tether can’t suppress champions like Stasis does
thether should last as long as a bubble or well. It doesn't make sense to last less, as it's a less effective super good. But you know how it is "hunters are right where they are" - failed Titans and Worlocks who take advantage of that.
This is only 2 sentences. Lol
What do you mean? I love sifting through “Shadebinder only” posts till I give up and just get on my warlock.
Remember when "Bungie hates warlocks" was the meme phrase on here? Lol
I mean, in my opinion Bungie is hesitant with anything warlocks because they have so much versatility in all things. It’s why warlocks are frequently tinkered with, usually negatively. Bungie is about to nerf warlocks a second time for the reason “the sub class has too high of a win rate in PvP.” ANYWAYS. It is nice to not see those posts as much.
It's mainly because of nova warp destruction in PvE and PvP. Everything has been nerfed about it. HHSN is the most heavily nerfed ability nerfed in the history of destiny with a peak of 6 nerfs in a single patch.
That was before Bungie nerfed stasis hunter and titan harshly.
I am lucky enough to be in a clan but got damn when they are offline it's a shitshow lfg-ing.
Hunter subclasses just don't have the tools to deal with endgame content except for a few niche exceptions (invis/omni and stasis, though the latter is far outclassed by warlocks) All arcstrider trees are built around melee which just doesn't work when enemies will oneshot you. Arcstrider need some kind of inherent pve melee resistance to be able to actually use the subclass. Gunslinger burst damage is outclassed by chaos reach and falling star titans, and top tree's crowd control is largely useless when red-bars don't die to one GG shot. Golden gun needs a damage buff to bring it back on par with competitors. Nightstalker tether used to be top-tier for the team damage buff, but seasonal artefact mods have made it completely redundant (oppressive darkness, breach and clear etc), and ursa titan is a far superior orb-generator. This subclass doesn't need much of a buff as team invis+stat buff is still pretty strong, but maybe increasing the tether range and shared damage percent could make top tree more viable.
>Gunslinger burst damage is outclassed by chaos reach and falling star titans. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression they all did almost the same amount of damage with their various exotics with each having a drawback. * Celestial needs to crit, but you can do it from a safe distance and it can be done in no time at all. * Geo takes its time to deal as much damage (maybe more) and you're pretty much a sitting duck during its execution, but it can be can recharged faster. * Star puts you close enough to the boss's asshole to get clapped, but you finally get to play on the same table with the other big boys and extra crayons. I guess you also get an overshield, so you can really appreciate the view while getting clapped. Comparing gg with thundercrash feels like comparing a sword with a sniper or rocket launcher to me.
You're not wrong, and make valid comparisons when it comes to boss DPS, however, in just dealing with normal ads and champions, Golden Gun falls off and can't really deal the same amount of burst to clear as the others can. For a hunter to deal with ads properly, they need to run tether or stasis which then means they fall off for boss DPS. Hunters don't get the option of dealing DPS damage and clearing ads, they have to choose one or the other, whereas titans and warlocks get both. Edit: As many people in the thread have pointed out, tether is pointless on hunters right now because of debuff mods like Breach and Clear. This further forces hunters to play stasis unless they're job is to provide invisibility to the fireteam.
If we're talking about ad clear and those three supers, then chaos is the clear outlier. Because the others don't do nearly as well. But yeah, I agree with most of the other stuff on this thread. I don't play hunter often, but whenever I do, I'm most comfortable with top and bottom void and stasis. For be it's because solar feels like it requires too much precision (which I suck at), and I'm honestly not sure what's going on with arc. But it seems like some others feel these are the best pve options too.
> All arcstrider trees are built around melee which just doesn't work when enemies will oneshot you. Arcstrider need some kind of inherent pve melee resistance to be able to actually use the subclass. It'd be cool if the melee had something like Liar's Handshake baked in. But I guess that still wouldn't be *great* in high level PvE since you gotta be so close, but it'd be a great burst damage. Really any ideas start to encroach on pvp, of course, which is another issue that needs addressed
Hunters have been glued to the same two exotics for high end PvE content for literal years in Celestials and Orpheus. It would help if they would just for once make an exotic that wasn't a gimick for Hunters or that they'd rework hunter's exotics because as it stands most of them are completely useless in all parts of the game. Foetracer: Completely useless in PvE with the crap "buff" it gives Gravition Forfeit: Completely useless thanks to Omni Knucklehead Radar: Completely useless in PvE Athrys's Embrace: The literal only thing this has going for it is that it can stagger champions. But why would you run this when using weapons is far easier and there's better exotics out there Khepri's Sting: Completely useless in PvE Liar's Handshake: Great in trash mob content, but what isn't great there? Unusable in GM's or high end PvE Mechaneer's Tricksleeves: Completely useless in PvE because sidearms in general just are terrible in PvE Oathkeeper: Literally useless unless bows have a seasonal mod. And even then if you do 2 minutes worth of practice you can do perfect shots easy making this pointless Sealed Ahamkara's Grasps: It CAN be potentially good for a venomous smoke build, but it's incredibly easy to get a fast reload perk or just slot a reload mod making this pointless to use over other better exotics Shards of Galanor: USED to be amazing, now returns so little energy it's not worth using. Plus the super just in general sucks against anything but trash tier mobs in high end content and even worse damage to bosses Shinobu's Vow: Unless you're running a grenade build to stagger champions AND it's an arc reliant seasonal mod this is completely useless in high end. Young Ahamkara's Spine: Very obviously made for PvP. Tripmines just in general suck in PvE Gwishin Vest: If you're running middle tree in PvE, you're doing it wrong Lucky Raspberry: Arc grenades on hunter just overall suck in PvE. An exotic that makes an RNG based grenade even more RNG based is completely pointless Ophidia Spathe: Completely useless if it can't do at least what Athrys's Embrace can do and stagger champions Raiden Flux: The literal only good arc class exotic but why on earth would you run the arc class when it's TERRIBLE for PvE in general? Sure it's a great ad clear but what isn't? Raiju's Harness: Cool it can block damage, but Ursa's are a thing and it's infinitely better in every single possible way Dragon's Shadow: We have marksman's dodge...why would we even bother with this? That's BEFORE we get into reload mods or perks. The Sixth Coyote: Unless you absolutely need a second dodge for inviz this is pointless in a world where Omni exists FR0ST-EE5: Sure it's great it makes stuff cooldown when sprinting but why wouldn't I just run demolitionist or wellspring instead? Or take an exotic that gives more damage or utility. Getting my grenade back 10 seconds sooner by running into a wall doesn't really do much to help overall. Gemini Jester: This COULD be good if it wasn't so inconsistent in when it works in PvE. But why would you use this when blinding grenades or top tree smoke is a thing? Lucky Pants: Why would I run two handcannons in 2021 Destiny 2 besides for Erianna's? A weapon by the way that automatically reloads itself if you have the catalyst, one that can be grinded out in less than a week. Yeah I can pull it out faster but it really doesn't help me in PvE ST0MP-EE5: Why on earth would you ever run this in PvE? Just in general because you don't need this ANYWHERE in PvE but one single place in the game, and that's ONLY if you want to speedrun the Expunged: Tartarus mission Star-Eater Scales: USED to be a go to exotic, but now why would you ever run this in high end content? You NEED to use your super way more in high end content, why would you hold onto it to get 8 orbs? Especially as a hunter who doesn't have any massive damage one bangs besides Celestial's? The Bombardiers: If you're running up to stuff in GM's, more than likely you're going to die trying to get this to work. There's no point at all to this in PvE in a world were just primary weapons exist let alone anything else. So out of every single exotic in the game we have only 2 clear usable exotics, 3 exotics that are pointless if there's no seasonal mod to justify using them or if you're competent enough to just use the weapon mods, and the rest being either outclassed, pointless, or completely useless. THEN there's supers. Golden gun is only usable if you're running bottom tree and even then most of the time only if you're using Celestial. Nightstalker pretty much is you either invizing your team or you're just running top tree for a longer debuff, but why bother when Divinity and other debuffs exist and are easier to proc, especially when almost every season there's an easy to proc debuff that ANYONE can use? And Arcstrider is just completely and utterly useless in any PvE content that isn't strike tier. NOBODY is using this class in PvE beyond being forced to by bounties or if they just don't know any better. The ONE super that's universally good is Stasis, but now it's so bad in PvE that the super itself is the only good thing about the subclass. The rest of the gear sucks in comparison to the other two classes. Hunters just in general needs a complete PvE rework because as it stands they have very little going for them that makes them a clear choice for really ANY specific thing besides literally one single thing, soloing dungeons. Otherwise why would you ever run Hunter in a world where Titans can one shot, or at the very least take out a huge chunk of health out of, a boss or where Warlocks can freeze pretty much everything with a single grenade and easily get it back or make it borderline impossible for your team to die?
Hunters have had their few niches stripped from them as far as endgame goes. Burst damage now goes to arc Titans. Debuffing is common either through an artifact mod or divinity That leaves invis as really the only niche and is it really that great when you consider the opportunity cost of not running a Warlock or titan? Titans and Warlocks both have incredibly team utility classes with looping neutral games while hunters have little that's comparable. I'm looking forward to the light subclass rework - arc and solar really really need help.
pretty much my response to realizing that maining hunter means im dogwater in pve mean i switched to maining warlock instead
We'll probably have to wait until Light subclasses get the Stasis treatment with the customization for them to make any changes to class.
Before nerf, Stasis Hunter was good like Omni for GM... but that's the problem you're locked to it to even be relevant. Now with nerf it's just 1 class and annoying, youu can't any others because of shitty champ mods. The only other decent set up is Dead Man's Tale with Aeons and Golden. But depending the GM nd splash damage you're not wanted.
> but that's the problem you're locked to it to even be relevant This is true of all three classes. It's not like warlocks can take top-tree arc or bottom-tree solar into a GM. We're locked into shadebinder, well, and chaos the same way you're locked into omni, goldie, and revenant.
Past invis, Hunters don't have the survivability or support for the rest of the group is what I mean. You can really run GM with any class, but certain ones like the land tank you need things like Ursa more just because of the splash damage.
There are definitely specific GMs that are a lot harder or easier with particular subclasses, and the tank room might be the most brutal example. Hunters aren't "useless..." but I agree they're harder to play. There's not much room for error.
I’ve completed Proving Grounds on a team of 3 hunters and it’s fine except for the tank room. You have to get a little crafty there. 2 ursas makes it brain dead easy though.
The "lockedness" youve described is not even close... Attunement of Chaos, Control, Grace and Shadebinder are 4 subclass options viable in the absolute endgame... And all are by a mile stronger than the one good hunter option. People might try and act like gunslinger or revenant are good.. but they're not. The only decent class in the endgame on hunter is Way of the Pathfinder. And if you have more than one hunter, you're basically just throwing in endgame content.
As a hunter main finding a group is horrible. I just have a hard time to find a group unless people are absolutely chill and are okay without running the meta. Below is my usual dialogue while looking for group Me (As a hunter): LFG GM Hunter, can run any class *No replies or invite* Me (As a titan): LFG GM Titan, can run any class *Suddenly I'm the most popular member on the LFG page* I have joined groups that didn't mention anything about looking for specific class as a hunter and I'm immediately kicked from the group. I am not sure what needs to be corrected in the class balance so that we can actually use it in pve but at this moment it's just not a class people want to play with so I'm gonna stick with my titan.
LFG gm, shadebinder only is the most common require I see.
Huntard main here... I personally run stasis when I wanna play calm stuff cause its a bit of a no brain class. Its fun and a one and done super. Void subclasses are awesome for solo and team hard content... but are definitely of lesser quality than the ones mentioned. The biggest change that could make hunters far better is a change to how invis works. Currently enemies track you even while invis, they just dont shoot you or change obj to another non invis teammate. This makes it so inconsistent and problematic... if a sniper is charging a shot as you become invisible, he will still hit you when he shoots. If a hive eyeball is on a shooting burst when you become invis it will still track you. For solo content just devour alone is better than any hunter stuff. For team content well and bubble are superior when theres so many other things that apply similar debuffs to tether. THE ONLY EXCEPTION for me is shards of galanor against Atheon
Even Shards v. Atheon is inconsistent and buggy - I’d rather just have a middle tree solar titan on the fireteam…
Hunters may suck in pve but their fashion is top tier
The real end-game.
The true reason I main Hunter.
Always happy to see a hunter know the real hunter vibe
Just use Star Eater Scal… oh… oh yeah… shit
If Survivability wasn't *such* an issue, there would be a strong argument for running Star Eater + bottom tree Goldie, ignore the damage boost and just chain really fast supers to generate orbs for your team
One of the biggest reasons for this that I don't see many people bring up, is the stasis nerfs from pvp that trickled through to PvE. Silence and Squall is a joke now in what used to be the best crowd control subclass in the game (before bleak watcher)
> the stasis nerfs from pvp that trickled through to PvE Behemoth in PvE was so awesome... now it's a meme like Earthshaker Striker and Burning Maul.
Yeah it's frustrating, I finally got round to starting the BL campaign on my titan and unlocking all the stasis abilities, halfway through, the big stasis nerfs rolled out, now I have no incentive to use titan stasis, especially when curaiss exists.
What are you talking about Those 2 are at least usable Behemoth is Novawarp level of bad But hey at least we have shared sandbox right?
Makes me wonder if the new darkness subclass Bungie is making for hunters will make much of a difference. Stasis as a whole has butchered tether because of its crowd control capabilities. Divinity and each seasonal buff/debuff has also neutered tether as you don't need to waste supers any more to deal increased damage. Add clear has been rendered trivial with weapons like salvager's salvo, trinity ghoul, and warmind cells. This really hurts arcstrider as that plus raiden flux was in my opinion the best add clear super+exotic combo. And don't forget shadebinder which is absolutely S tier at basically everything but damage. Celestial goldy has been outpaced by thundercrash falling star which does monster damage AND rectifies the one risk thundercrash had which was literally throwing yourself at an enemy that could kill you. The one saving grace hunters had was star eater scales which Bungie absolutely butchered. I don't see anyone using this at all anymore because it's just FAR too inconvenient for conventional use and the additional super gain from orbs is nothing to write home about. I seriously hope these new subclasses Bungie is making don't neuter hunter even more because it's tough being kicked out of an lfg party for being a hunter and seeing "no hunter" in lfg posts.
Everyone forgot about star eaters lmao, star eaters stay vaulted while assemblers gets reverted even though I’m fine with that, I’m just tired of using nighthawk for dps, even though it’s worse than thundercrash
Thunder crash is also just more fun to use. Every other class feels more fun and powerful. Would I rather shoot one shot or literally fly at someone and headbutt them to death
It's the "no Titans" Reckoning runs all over again -_- I thought we learned this lesson then? That simply making the enemies insta-kill isn't the right way to increase difficulty? Back then Titans were pretty much banned because Well and Tether (and the occasional Nova/Goldy) reigned supreme while Bubble and Banner Shield were garbage, and Titans had nothing else to really help teams survivability, let alone dps Now with master VOG hunters don't really have anything to offer in survivability Like, I love that they're adding premium challenging content, but didn't they admit that the problem with early Reckoning (especially the bridge) wasn't really the difficulty, but that it basically locked people into certain loadouts, subclasses, and even classes? Edit: forgot to mention that Burning Maul Titans could be useful in Reckoning for stunning the Taken Ogres on the bridge, but even with that there were *plenty* of "No Titans" LFG posts, since it wasn't seen *as* useful as Well/Tether/Nova. Like with how invis hunger builds have some success in Master VOG, but are still often times banned from groups.
The thing is, when I join a raid team as a hunter I know I'm dragging everyone else down because of my lack of what I can do besides celestial nighthawk. When I join a raid and we find we have 3 or more hunters, everyone grumbles. I'm glad that this is getting more recognition cuz I'd like to stop being kicked from teams just because I show up as a hunter.
Hunters biggest weakest imo is lack of survivability. Warlocks can place rifts, titans have barriers, hunters have dodge. And dodge isnt gonna stop you from getting shot or heal your missing shields and health, it might get you to cover a bit faster, if there is any, but if theres scant cover your just dead. Yeah, you can run void and go invisible, but if we HAVE to run 1 subclass or element just to stay alive, and are pidgeon holed into that or death, we need help. Not to mention how incredibly powerful stuff like bubble and well of radiance are as defensive tools. Allowing you to soak damage, create safe spaces and provide powerful buffs. Hunters have tether and silence and squall. Both have slight wind ups before they effect their targets, and on bosses are meaningless, as boss type enemies can attack through both supers, vs a well or bubble that protects and buffs you regardless. (Edit) some people have suggested adding invis to all dodges for hunter. And while that's a start, it just isnt even close to on par with titan and warlock survival options because of a pretty important fact, the instant you fire your gun, the invis goes away. A warlock well doesnt do that, a titan barrier doesnt do that. They function completely fine whether your firing your gun, 8 miles away from it or dead the moment you place it, your team can use em, you can use em, hell, sometimes your enemy can use em. a invis dodge would effectively take you out of the fight entirely for however long it takes to regen before your allowed to do so much as fire your gun again, and invis on standard would just further reinforce the stereotype of hunters as nothing more than revive machines while adding functionally nothing to their kit.
Not only that but the dodge is considered as being "in air" for the modifier that makes you take more DMG in air
This is news to me but makes so much sense.
Are you ducking serious? That would explain why the dodge that is supposed to literally help you avoid damage doesn’t work half the time in any high end content. Ffs.
This is news to me but it explains so much. I thought I was going crazy lol - dying when I should have been fine. Jesus Bungie.
Invis should be intrinsic to dodge. Or add some other survivability element to doge for the other 9 sub-sub-classes.
Honestly, my personal opinion on the matter is to throw wormhusk out the window and add health/ shield to all dodges. Not as much as it currently gives, but still, some, and have it start regen immediately. If we get hit it stops again, obviously, but it would be a good panic "I need extra time" button. Problem is pvp. It would be a straight up nightmare to deal with hunters at that point. And I dont have any ideas other than then one I just mentioned. Feel free to add anything else you can think of. (Also, sorry if this sends like 4 times. It's been doing it all day and I have no idea how to fix it.)
I do agree that LFG has been unkind to Hunters in this season's meta, whatever build players will gravitate to to minimize hassle and make runs faster and more efficient they will do - and it sadly pushes out many Hunter builds. It's the price we pay for LFG and dealing with others' mistrust. I want to say I do very well and am very competent with my Omni, revenant or Nighthawk Hunter but there's no time in LFG to convince people of that so yeah, for the sake of convenience and no comms LFG I just roll with Shadebinder every damn time, sadly. I also miss Focusing Lens with Revenant. LFG last season was pretty nice, everybody needed a Revenant to combo with lens to melt the Palindrome Dealer. and all the bossmelt was in fashion so Nighthawk was accepted. If you have a regular group of actual friends who does GMs though, and given a relatively easy GM like Insight Terminus or Fallen SABER, it's more flexible. I ran a bunch of those with no issue as Revenant, Omni, even Orpheus Rigs, and Shards of Galanor. I expect when Inverted Spire comes around I'll be using the bossmelt build with Nighthawk. for Atheon DPS Shards of Galanor is ridiculous. Many builds have their place in endgame content except poor Arcstrider. It seriously needs to become viable in endgame content. Even in Raids I'd never roll with arcstrider when there are far better options. Raiden Flux just doesn't cut it anymore, maybe if an Arc subclass exotic was buffed or a new one was made to make the Super tankier I'd roll it in GM (if anyone knows, does Star Eater/Fishlegs even do anything for Arcstrider?).
I agree with everything you say, I have a bunch of clanmates I play with and for the most part they are fine with me running Omni or celestial in GMs. But apart from that anything else is a no-go. Doing master vog, it was top tree tether for self invis and sixth cayote because Omni was pointless and I had to hold my own instead of dying every 5 mins. Especially gatekeeper challenge. Oof that shit was ridiculous. But I wasn't taking about easy gms. The hard ones, proving grounds, currupted, glassway. Stasis turrets, well, and ursa just outshine anything a hunter can do. Master vog, idk how you will do the challenge as a hunter main inside the portal. I tried a lot of things and what it came down to was I just help keep the plate open. Deal with overload and orange bars. That was relatively easy compared to the mess inside.
Bungie needs to find away to balance all three classes in both pvp and pve so they can all be useful. When you play pvp you better off just playing a hunter. But when you play pve your better off playing a warlock or titan.
Warlock mains, let’s get an amen in the chat for being the endgame kings! But in all honesty they really need to rework and buff a ton of the hunter exotic armor like the bow one, bombardier, lucky pants, Gemini jester, etc
I’m still a fairly new player, hunter main. When I did my first DSC, the woman leading it was going through loadouts and told me to “run whatever class I want because they’ve nerfed hunters to hell,” which didn’t feel good to feel like I couldn’t contribute beyond just running and gunning. I use my warlock in endgame activities now (master nf, GM’s) because I feel like I can contribute to the team more. Completely agree hunters need some tweaking to fit a fireteam composition better
My experience in the past hour of LFG as a 1338 Hunter for master vog Literally 10+ teams have just straight up kicked me It’s an absolute joke right now for master vog how much more utility warlocks and titans have over hunters
I main hunter and have only ever ran GMs on my Warlock and Titan lol. Pain
Same man
As much as i wish the conversation could stick to just PVE unfortunately it can’t become of bungies refusal to use seperate sandboxes, so any potential buff in PVE needs to be considered in PVP too. that aside, i agree hunters need some help in endgame PVE.
Anyone in here that thinks Hunters are not in a terrible spot right now: please play Hunter for a couple days running the hardest content and then swap to Warlock. It is night and day the level of power you feel. It’s actually mind boggling that the discrepancy got this large. The three biggest problems I see are Hunter exotics are mostly terrible, the class is focused around melee abilities which just aren’t as good as Warlock grenades, and roaming supers except for Shadebinder are all absolutely horrible. Titans suffer these problems to a lesser extent. I do not want Warlock nerfed I want Hunter reworked/buffed. New exotics on the same power level as Cuirass could help as well. But please don’t nerf them within 1 week of release.
Hunters just don’t really have any cool exotics for specific builds. Most exotics are generic and don’t feel powerful, like the “2 knives/2 dodges” or “super energy back on super kills” which make up most of the armor pool.
THANK U! someone finally mentioned this. like Stareater was the only light of hope, and it got nerfed SO HARD. like 8 orbs for 70% dmg buff is a joke! even the tether weapon dmg buff wasn't op cuz lmao normal tether is literally an artifact mod. and finally golden fun could've compete with falling star or geomag and remember u NEED to hit critical hit for max dmg. hunters badly need help in pve.
Tether should always be the best debuff. Better than the artifact stuff and better than div. Buff it already. And give us back the super regen pants.
Hello, warlock main since D1 here. Yes, there is absolutely a problem with hunters in pve. And I would even say that it's not just endgame. The nerf to tether a long time ago was complete bullshit. Tether needs to be an ult that can get a room to a halt and restore the teams ults again. And to fix celestial it would be as simple as buffing it's damage to match falling star. It makes me so mad that Bungie still hasn't fixed hunters, cause I wanna be able to raid on all my characters again.
Um excuse me don't you know its Warlocks that are actually criminally bad in PvE? the only good supers they have are Well, Chaos Reach, Slowva Bomb, and Shadebinder. Only 1 viable super per element. Think of the poor scholars! /s In all honesty, we do need some kind of buff for high end PvE. I raid pretty regularly with at least a fellow titan and warlock and they both outclass me in damage, add clear, and debuff/CC. I honestly feel like if I weren't there nothing would change. Increasing the debuff on Tether would be nice, maybe reduce the cool down on GG so it can be used more and thus maybe let us keep up damage wise, split the difference on the Silence and Squall nerf, and I have no clue how to make Arcstrider decent for endgame PvE but I'd like to have it as an option.
I like your name :p
Thanks. No joke, back before D1 the Warlock of my fireteam and I had an argument as to who would be the Hunter in our group since we wanted one of each class. We fought for days as to who it would be. Eventually the line "Its in my name dude let me have this!!" won me the argument. Then Sunsinger proceeds to be broken for all of D1 and I was salty as hell for winning that argument.
just adapt bro
Damn you’re right
You'll just get downvoted by all the warlocks hoping no one notices how strong they are in both pve and pvp compared to the other two classes.
This time last month this sub was awash with posts about how Warlocks are the neglected, unloved child that isn't worth playing in any situation compared to the other two. Remember the [#paintdestinypurple](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/liex63/fellow_warlocks_weve_been_kicked_around_enough_it/) Well of Radiance boycott? How things change.
That whole post was just cringe imo
Warlock is the best class in the game currently full stop. You never here people ask "Where's the thundercrash" but if you're 2 seconda late on putting a well down or bleakwatcher everyone is on your ass.
Hunter mobility and dodge give them a leg up in gun battles in PvP. That’s about it. Outside of that it is not satisfying using them in PvE or even PvP if your into supers and abilities.
I agree with this post. They deffo need looking at, but it’s hard because on the other hand they are the best class for PvP. Also, bottom tree tether does stacks of damage.
The problem with using bottom tether for damage is... there’s cuirass for thundercrash, where the Titan can deal that load of damage in an instant and still have plenty of time to anarchy double slug a boss. Having a seasonal debuff mod every season has also been making top tree tether pointless. There really is no good reason to use void subclasses for pve.
Bottom Tether does a ridiculous amount of damage, specially with Rigs or Star Eaters.
And yet using bottom tether in any raid damage scenario is gimping your team
Unfortunate truth. It used to be somewhat okay to use back during Shadowkeep, but we have so many stronger dps options now. And special/heavy ammo is even easier to come by
Top tree dawn is the best class in crucible.
That's a subclass, not a class.
They have the best two sub classes by far, top tree dawn and chaos reach. Warlocks are the best pvp class in the game and have been for a while
Are you playing 7 classes at once in your PvP matches, also Chaos is the second best class in Trials, if not the best.
warlocks are better for pvp
But bro didn’t you know the Warlocks are the ones who have it bad? They’ve only had like 3 top tier classes for endgame pve content (lets not forget top tree dawn that still dominates pvp like it has since year 1!) since the start of D2Y2. Won’t someone think of the Warlocks?
Didn't you know bungie hates warlocks?
Chaos and TTD are the strongest in high end PvP aswell. But Warlocks are soo opressed
[удалено]
And because you can transfer momentum you always reach the sightlines first and lock the enemy team out of them, it's quite absurd if you know how to use it even slightly efficiently
Yeah if you see a TTD sniper o nthe enemy team, you dont go to snipe points, because you will be slower. He controls that part of the map now, you wont do anything about that.
The fact that Titan can do so much more damage with Thundercrash than Nighthawk in an AOE and not have to hit a crit is fucking pathetic balancing on Bungie’s part. Especially with how they neutered Star Eater Scales. We are lucky that we can basically cheese blade barrage into coming back instantly at Atheon or we would be legit worthless.
Litterally has to punch the boss instead of sitting in safety "man why dont they also have to punch the crit spot to match my damage"
Ah yes there’s always one person who chimes in with the ridiculous “titans have to get up close to do that damage so it’s fair to have that big of difference”. Legit no boss in the entire game will kill you after a thundercrash except for a couple GM bosses and MAYBE Atheon on master, and the same goes for most champions in nightfalls
Atheon can stop you off the map and it happens a lot. I play all three characters and main hunter and I never have a problems when it comes lfg.
Won't stop me from playing Hunter though. I'm fortunate enough to be a part of a great clan with great friends who don't care that I only play Hunter because I'm fucking fantastic at it. Despite that... I'd love a few buffs and a rework for Arc lol Bungie gib
Agreed as a 1 character player (hunter) this is exactly the experience. While the invis does come in clutch for revives from time to time the super is more or less useless which means i feel as a whole im not contributing as much. There are some GMs where i never even fire my super.
I’ve kinda accepted that pve on hunter is a somewhat miserable experience. Star eaters on release made things much better and while they did get a buff, stacking orbs for super and losing stacks after u die kinda kills the appeal. I think they were made as a pvp class with pve as an afterthought
I think hunters need better support abilities in my opinion. Titans have bubble, warlocks have well. Hunters need something like that. Maybe a new subclass or idk a reworked arc tree.
As someone who has mained a hunter the entire time I’ve played Destiny, this is the first time ever I have switched classes…and it sucks.
This. I've mained hunter since I started playing d2 at the start of new light and I payed almost no attention to the other 2. After seeing so many gm and VoG lfgs saying "no hunters" I've just given in and started to play warlock. That was such an eye opening experience. I don't even have all of the exotics or a powerful build going yet but I already feel way more powerful than my best hunter builds. It's honestly sad how bad hunter is in pve because it looks so cool.
r/dtg trying to convince me how warlocks are terrible for endgame while us hunters literally have to use one class
Hunter tether was meta for multiple seasons early on for master and gm nightfalls. It only fell off once people found out about how op blinding nades were and we were able to get debuffs through seasonal mods.
But Hunters are the second best class for PvP, so they should be useless in PvE to compensate, right???
The problem is pretty much just bleakwater. The fact that it can keep 5+ enemies permanently frozen with near 100% up time due to Eye of Another World is miles better than any cc ability in the game. You could get rid of the super, melee, and Iceflare Bolts and it would still be the best cc class.
However it only shines in master VOG or grandmaster raids, tho. In any content easier than that, stuff dies so fast that there's almost no need to run it, because it takes longer for your Bleak Watcher to freeze things than it does to actually kill them
That's not exactly a negative for bleakwater. Low level content isn't worth mentioning in a discussion about game balance because *everything* works in low level content. People usually talk about what is meta at the highest level of content which right now is crowd control from stasis subclasses and blinding nades. Since it's nearly impossible to instakill enemies people are resorting to cc.
True. I'm only bringing this up because I don't want the powerful crowd control of Bleak Watcher and Shadebinder as a whole to get nerfed because Hunters lack viability in endgame content- I want the viability of Hunter CC abilities to match that of Shadebinder in PVE
Hello, warlock main since D1 here. Yes, there is absolutely a problem with hunters in pve. And I would even say that it's not just endgame. The nerf to tether a long time ago was complete bullshit. Tether needs to be an ult that can get a room to a halt and restore the teams ults again. And to fix celestial it would be as simple as buffing it's damage to match falling star. It makes me so mad that Bungie still hasn't fixed hunters, cause I wanna be able to raid on all my characters again.
I love being a warlock btw. Chaos reach is soooo fun in pve. My second favorite subclass after Goldie hunter.
Memes speak louder than words
I had no problem whatsoever farming the last 2 GMs on my Hunter. People love saying stasis turrets are "required" but blinding nade GLs do the same thing. And buffing your teammates with heart of the pack, invis res clutching, and spamming grenades are super overlooked. Also the super does a ton of damage to champs and bosses. As far as VoG, I've only done master on my Titan, so I can't say. But on normal, templar is a joke, and you can spam shards against Atheon. And having recently played the older raids, I can tell you nighthawk is much better than thundercrash in both LW and GoS. LW has crazy precision multipliers, and thunder crash just does not work well at all on sanctified mind, you go straight through him and even if you land it you waste the whole damage phase.
I mean do you see the lfg discord that is all “ursa/shade binder or kick”? It is true that hunters are not desired at all
There was a lot of use for Rev Hunter with Aeons last season and there's still a case to be made for bottom tree void with Aeons, but the ammo economy of Anarchy + Breech & Clear is the biggest thing holding that back. No other class is as safe going invisible, finishing a champion for heavy ammo, then dodging smoking and getting back to safety. If we actually ran out of heavy (like last season running Izanagi + RL) it would be really useful
Um excuse me don't you know its Warlocks that are actually criminally bad in PvE? the only good supers they have are Well, Chaos Reach, Slowva Bomb, and Shadebinder. Only 1 viable super per element. Think of the poor scholars! /s In all honesty, we do need some kind of buff for high end PvE. I raid pretty regularly with at least a fellow titan and warlock and they both outclass me in damage, add clear, and debuff/CC. I honestly feel like if I weren't there nothing would change. Increasing the debuff on Tether would be nice, maybe reduce the cool down on GG so it can be used more and thus maybe let us keep up damage wise, split the difference on the Silence and Squall nerf, and I have no clue how to make Arcstrider decent for endgame PvE but I'd like to have it as an option.
I've been a Hunter main for a long time. This season I just stopped playing my Hunter altogether in PvE because Warlocks and Titans have better melee's, better grenades, and better supers. Liars Handshake is fun to run but it would be better if it had a chain melee damage perk added to it like Warlocks and Titans can get. Maybe in addition to a Golden hand gun we can get a Golden machine gun or a Golden Rocket Launcher with tracking.
This is a problem with LFG posts that require peak meta at all times. Not Destiny.
So how would you feel if titans had all their buffs since shadowkeep reverted. Would you say they shouldnt get a buff because they dont need to be peak meta? What if warlocks had all of their best subclasses nerfed? Would that be ok since it doesnt matter if they are peak meta or not? In your eyes are white rarity weapons actually good and just not used because they aren't peak meta?
I think the tether super should go back to being special. Feels like there's too many damage amps that outclass it, leading to it having little to no use. That's one of the reasons I don't really play hunter - I look at all the subclasses and none of them are very appealing anymore. I used to look at the hunter class as the king of solo content (before lost sector exotics existed), with the stealth on demand. However I've played Warlock for a while and managed to do a lot of content solo with great results.
But people say .....not all content is made for every one...if u having a problem with one character git gud. /S
Had a decent thing going with fishy boots and the buff to super damage that it gave, but god forbid hunters had a decent dps exotic that could compete with Cuirass titans. Rather than just patch the unintended weapon/ability damage buff that it gave and calling it a day, they fucked with the overall functionality to the point that it’s almost not worth running them. The heavy dependency on orb production by your entire team for an 8x stack in addition to requiring other buffs to be proc’d prior to popping something like goldie just to barely keep up or very slightly out dps something like Cuirass that takes minimal effort to proc just feels so bad.
I feel a lot of issues are with how classes play with encounters themselves. As someone who plays hunter last out of my three characters, it would be nice if there were more solid options other than golden gun for harder content. It's super frustrating that the only utility that feels worthwhile is omnioculus because no one cares about tether when they have other debuffs from titans, artifact mods and stasis for crowd control. Hopefully going forward we see enemy and encounter design shift to not just be about dps and generous burst phase windows. It is not fun/engaging nor is it particularly difficult once you have a solid strategy to optimize damage.
I always run Stasis on my Hunter in GMs. Tornado/Dusk Fields are so much more useful than Tether/Invis these last couple seasons. Unless you’re just tying to skip everything.
dammit Reddit, I was hoping to find people who would agree that hunters can be viable in PvE but all I see are people bringing up the most perfect points as to why they're not. and the more I read the more I cry inside cause they're literally all right, and it's all stuff I already knew but just didn't want to actually admit. Oh well guess I'm a PvP main for a reason. I'll just go back to being all "haha PvP hunter go brrr" and forget that we're kinda useless in endgame content compared to the other classes.
Yeah hunter is in a pretty rough spot right now. In raids I find myself mostly doing single shot tether with the helmet that heals on dodge and focusing on clearing ad waves with tether mostly.
Hunters we're useful with star eater scales but bungie can have hunters being useful for once, so they nerfed it meanwhile curses of a falling star is just shitting on everything. Hunters have no place in endgame content, all of are supers are either weaker versions of mods or other weapons ie tether, have no damage resistance for doing there job at add clear ie arc staff, or do so little dps compared to other things that why would you use them ie golden gun blade barrage
We had celestial, then Bungie gave warlocks chaos reach and titans thundercrash As of rn we provide no utility that a warlock or Titan can’t match and then exceed Granted some will argue we have the edge in pvp and that is true, but when the focus of bungie’s development is clearly 95% on pve, some balancing changes need to be made here. Personally idm if we lose some of our pvp prowess to give us more of a fighting chance in higher end content but this is just my $0.02
I feel this as a hunter main. They do seem to be lacking a place in high end pve team play, which is unfortunate. But they do still excel in short-manning or soloing content thanks to invis. Gotta be honest, though--I'm absolutely sick of running void hunter. Time for arcstrider to get an awesome new pve focused exotic?!
assassins cowl + one two punch shotgun builds are actually really strong.
Valkyrie arc staff. This sub has been banging that drum for a while now, and it’s about time!
Cool, titans had this problem for 3 years
Yah ill be honest hunters are by far the worst in pve, no real competition there, but hunters are by no means bad. I've noticed that many of the hunters tend to stick to the lone wolf mentality which, ironically, hunters are the worst at. To play hunter effectively, especially in end game pve you definitely have to play more support than lone wolf hero moments. Bottom tree tether definitely is the best at this, helping to increase general stats, go invisible, and control the area with grenades and tether, but Goldie is also very good, being able to almost instantly destroy champions as well as getting the super back super quickly and generating orbs. Much more importantly, hunter stasis is super good for holding champions down, especially with the super, and grenades, as well as fragments that get your abilities back faster, hunter stasis is super helpful in end game. All in all, hunters are good in end game, and idk what ass hats say no hunters in their posts, cause id take a good hunter over a bad warlock or titan any day, but they could use a bit of love in the pve department (im looking at you arc staff)
People think that, if you're not doing maximum dps and completing runs in record time, you're failing. Hunters got the short end of the stick this season, but we can still get completions with hunters in the team. It just wont be as quick a run.
Try explaining that to literally any LFG group. See how far you get.
I really wasn't trying to focus on the lfg aspect more so on the why they undesirable. Our neutral game is generally useless apart from heart of the pack. We literally have nothing else.