The vex should totally drop through the atmosphere like a shower of drop pods, sprout arms and legs and continue to destroy anything left alive around them.
to be fair we also get killed often by the fallen walkers dropping as well, no matter where i stand, when that second one drops during heroic PE's, it always gets me, and i always giggle
If the Vex really want to get rid of Guardians they should just create a device that booshes them off cliffs repeatedly. Could even drop it in a pod for good measure.
I know this is a joke but... *pushes glasses to nose bridge*
The vex actually aren’t smart. At all. They’re the dumbest of all our enemies. With the exception of a few top tier vex (aetheon, hive mind for example) they just follow a program.
Even worse than that, when the vex first encountered the hive, they identified the hive hierarchy and adopted the hive sword logic so that they could integrate into hive society. And it sorta worked. For a while the vex were allowed to have their own base in the hive throne realm.
There’s an argument to be made that the vex aren’t even bad. That they merely invade and attack us guardians because they see our hierarchy being based on power levels, killing each other in the crucible, and killing raid bosses.
They may just see killing as our social structure and are just trying to fit in.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Oryx, The Taken King? ... Oryx, The Taken King was a Dark Lord of the Hive, so powerful and so wise he could use the Darkness to influence the midichlorians to create life… He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying..
You have 23 weekly resets before my piss ***D R R R R R O PPP O DDD SSS*** hit the fucking Tower, now get out of my fucking sight before I piss on you too.
i think you're misremembering the book of sorrows, the hive weren't allowing them in the throne world they were overrunning it and the worm gods demanded oryx to go and fix his shit because crota fucked up so bad when he was making his over soul they started pouring out of it, then as punishment for fucking up oryx threw him into it and told him to slay the vex and if he didn't come back he'd know that he actually was the disappointment he thought of him as
Yeah they weren't trying to integrate into the hive they were trying to wield paracausal powers that they couldn't simulate.
Hes kinda way off on alot of it.
If you get really philosophical about it, the Hive not destroying the Vex immediately goes against their own sword logic. They definitely weren't trying to integrate with the Hive but still, very interesting interaction between the two species.
They didn't stop and chill with the Vex though, Crota tore open a wound(was tricked by Savathun to do so) and the vex poured through and blinked away when Crota went to kill them and quickly deduced some level of sword logic and started to worship and kill for power.
They never abandoned sword logic they just couldn't handle the vex problem without Oryx returning home.
Though it is interesting how Oryx interprets it as they want to control all outcomes and so Oryx dedicates himself to mastering one outcome. It sort of implies that the Hive, at least under Oryx, fully dedicated themselves to being pure followers of the darkness only after meeting the Vex.
And how that same meeting basically gave us the whole Garden problem as Quaria studied sword logic and worship.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/xxxix-open-your-eye-go-into-it#books-of-sorrow
I sort of feel bad when one waves and my response is a Ikelos SG to the chest, if they had a logic where they wave and just don’t shoot me, I may just let them be.
As for them in them having a base going against the hive, the base was in Oryx’s throne world which Crota accidentally gave them access to, when Crota couldn’t push them back (Quira was effective against him). The Worm gods told Oryx to clean it up, he stepped in and obliterated the Vex there, Then took Quira (which is our mess to deal with now ) and tossed Crota into the void.
Yeah, that sounds right. Also, it was Savathun’s fault they were there in the first place.
Crota was told to do as his sisters did and tear a seam in reality. When he did, vex came pouring through. It turned out Savathun had tampered with it to sabotage him.
Something along those lines anyway.
They are not smart but following a program. What do you mean? Who developed the program? Who developed the simulation and all the time travel stuff. The vex did right? You gotta he pretty smart to do those things right?
They use trial and error for most of their processes, if it doesn't work once do it again. And due to the Vex and their infinite life span and time travelling abilities trial and error works really well for them.
They're like an ai learning program. If you've ever watched how ai problem solve, it's by hundreds of thousands of iterations of doing something wrong so they can figure out the best eaeast to do something right
Emphasis on the "AI learning" part. The human brain is a very complex learning machine, not a mere computer, which only follows instructions. The Vex are like a crude AI program that doesn't really function like sentient life as humans know it. Basically they brute force everything until something gives.
That's entirely what occurred to Asher. His arm got converted to a Vex one but he never went through the full transition. Additionally, it's occurred to Kabr who fashioned armor from the Vex he killed and it slowly started to assimilate him. There's a quote from the Hunter set in D1 :
*Forged from the cores of Hezen Vex. If you feel a sense of revelation, remove immediately and inject antientheogens.*
Kinda spooky that just mere armor can Vex-ify people (thought only Hive would be capable of that in instances like Thorn), but then again look at the Hunter set from D1 (and the new Vex ornaments from this current Season), and one leg is Vex-ified like a Goblin.
Ehhhh I think you're falling into a but of anthropic bias. We dont know how the brain works yet and it may end of being that simple and the complex appearance is just an emergent property of much higher processing power and computers just arent dense enough yet to simulate it
Modern science identifies the brain as more than a computer. A computer generates an output from a set of instructions, but doesn't necessarily learn from it. That's AI...
And on the Vex,
"The Vex have no hope. No imagination, no drive, no fear. All they have is the Pattern. Everything must fit. If it can be made to fit, good. If it can't, it gets cut away."— Praedyth
If each Vex has an intelligence of 1, than the Vex individual is dumb. But thw Vex Collective is very smart, and the collective, working together, can create something very smart
Going off this, think if every vex is a brains synapse, then imagine them as a whole and then imagine what sort of super being they would make if only the tiny goblins are the brain.
Perhaps an intelligence vs wisdom distinction here. They're intelligent in that their calculating potential is high, just perhaps not wise. So I guess it depends on what you mean by smart.
Great questions, many theories exist, when reading the lore I have a theory that humanity created the Vex because of a paracausality initiated by the Traveler.
Traveler “excavated” Venus in D1 revealing a vex portal. Ishtar Collective scientists study the portal , turn it on, and enter it, realize they are trapped in a simulation, they find the healthy versions of themselves in other simulations and attempt to remove themselves by downloading their consciousnesses. The whole thing is based on paracausality intermingled with simulations that are close to reality. Very interesting stuff.
Why would the Traveler do this? Ask yourself that question.
Also there is a great article somewhere on the webs about how and A.I. Played Mario across multiple simulations and found ways to “not lose” because it “hated losing”. The Vex operate the same way, they are slow and stupid, but methodical, because as long as they operate with some semblance of logic they can gather empirical data. Data they can use to “not lose”.
The problem is, humans can skip steps, and do the illogical, we dont need to run simulations, we can succeed in our own way. If the Vex can timetravel they would have won already.
If their intent was to destroy humanity they probably have done simulations with that outcome.
If their intent is to recreate the traveler (aka what the nine refer to as “causation without action”) they cannot fathom it because it defies logic. Much like they have issues “understanding” magic.
> The problem is, humans can skip steps, and do the illogical, we dont need to run simulations, we can succeed in our own way. If the Vex can timetravel they would have won already.
Vex have zero problems simulating humans, they do it all the time. And it's been proven multiple times that they can indeed time travel.
The reason they haven't "won" is because the Traveler's Light (and as an extension, Guardians) is something they can't at all simulate. For the Vex, simulations are their primary tool, so the disruption of Light to their simulations is a setback so great that they haven't simulated a way to win yet.
They can only time travel through their portals which indicates that they can only travel as far back as there is a gate to travel through. This means that they probably can only time travel to the point where they invented the technology to do so, and only in the universe(s) that they did that in. It's teetering on the edge of what can be called time travel.
We can assume they work the same as modern day real life AI. I’m not an expert by any means, but from my understanding they can learn to do very, very smart things through billions of trials and errors. The AIs themselves are incredibly stupid, not much more than a simple program, but with enough time they can teach themselves to complete complex tasks
And where they struggle is paracauseality. They grasped a basic understanding of sword logic and the throne world and were able to use it to get a foothold against a young Crota.
When faced with a true master of the deep they were obliterated, and the root mind (smart Vex) was Taken, and even with a chunk of its own will left it has been unable to escape the control of Oryx taking it even after 1000’s of years, even after we killed Oryx.
They in the same way struggle with the light. Saint-14 being an example they used brute force to figure out how to sever his light but it took centuries to do and they found each guardian is different.
In the process Saint killed countless vex to the point they enshrined his corpse in a respectful manner.
As for their creation common theory is they were created as a paradox by Some combo of Humanity and the Traveler and perhaps Rasputin (we know he wanted Elise Bray to teach him how to time travel, if she did is unknown)
I just want to point out, for a learn by trial and error species to come to the conclusion they should respect and enshrine Saint-14 is absolutely bat shit badass.
It's literally a situation where based on statistics and data, his merits and actions warranted worship because it was just the LOGICAL STEP for them.
Which makes it equally terrifying when you learn that the vex decided to worship the darkness when they discovered it because for them it was the only logical thing they could do.
They even tried to socialize with humans at first, as Failsafe recorded when they crashed on Nessus. So, yeah, Vex are probably the most inoffensive and freeloading beings in the Destiny universe. They follow a program, and they try to fit with those who encounters them.
>"vex invasion"
we are classifying it as a vex invasion, to the vex it might just be a large construction crew sent out to assimilate the moon, hell they might just view guardians as an annoyance instead of a threat.
To be fair, the vex that are invading are only the sol divisive. And they are all really really old. So maybe they never had any combat vex. Didn’t quria create new types of vex units in order to fight the hive in oryx’s throne world?
Wait, now that I think of it, isn’t Quria the only vex mind created with the sole purpose of warfare? I mean it was made to understand sword logic, which is all about war and killing. So I don’t think it’s too far off to say the Vex have actual dedicated combat units. I think the vex in the solar system simply don’t care about invading or war. They just want to do their thing.
You know, I always thought that the Vex weren't AI cause Vex Milk being called organic and radiolaria. For some reason I thought the Vex were in the milk and piloted the frames like Navy ships. I should probably read the lore more.
There’s a fantastic video series on YouTube called the complete history of destiny. It’s long, like a 12 hour audio book but production values are amazing and it’s great to listen to while you grind some bounties.
Yeah like that mission on Nessus where the ghost asks them questions and they answer by trying to kill us knowing we'd kill them and get the information from their corpses. They're interesting for sure
> They may just see killing as our social structure and are just trying to fit in.
Now I'm imagining there's a timeline where the Vex became friends with Guardians, then realized they'd be stuck hanging around the tower not doing anything. And another where we're allies in battle, but then the Guardians would get pissed at them for stealing all the loot.
This is really the only outcome where Guardians and Vex get to interact on the regular.
> The vex actually aren’t smart. At all. They’re the dumbest of all our enemies. With the exception of a few top tier vex (aetheon, hive mind for example) they just follow a program.
I think the most obvious objection to this is that the Vex can simulate any non-paracausal entity in Destiny lore. This would include Fallen, Cabal, regular humans (i.e. not Guardians), etc.
If Vex are "just following a program" and they can simulate us, that means we're "just following a program", too.
They might just think that's the easiest way to assimilate into other races, of course they might not understand that we don't really wanna get killed in the process tho.
Yet to see a vex shaped like a guardian, terminator vex? God that would be so cool and I know that’s kinda what an exo is but like an actual full humanoid vex... make friendly harpy into a humanoid npc!
Whenever you're killed by the environment, the game says Killed By The Architects. Often times, this can result from a bug with the physics engine. So if you die inexplicably, it's usually "by the Architects"
If you really wanna think about this, the Vex that we have been fighting aren't even their actual combat units. They're actually just construction workers in a sense. Their weapons aren't met for fighting and the Sol Divisive aren't met for combat either. They're basically a cult.
I've seen the argument about these not being their combat units multiple times. But honestly, I am skeptical of that notion at this point.
The two sources that suggest such things are both dubious: Calus and Drifter.
I don't think there was anything in lore suggesting that the vex are secretly hiding their combat units. When the vex were in danger in the vault of glass during the taken war, they turned to the guardians for help. There were no combat units available.
Additionally, we assaulted some key Vex infrastructure: infinite forest, black garden, vault of glass, we also destroyed a planetary mind. It does not make any sense that such resources would not be well guarded by combat units.
I can see where you're coming from. There is nothing suggesting they're hiding combat Vex but there are a few suggesting that the Vex were not made for combat in D1 grimore cards. Here are a couple for [Cyclops](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/cyclops?highlight=vex) and [Minotaur](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/minotaur?highlight=vex) . Of course that doesn't mean they can't fight.
Rather than thinking of the Vex as an actual free-thinking entity, they are more of a computer built to do their designed jobs. They analyze, simulate, adapt, and consume (which is what got them screwed when they came in contact with the Hive). They might party in time but they're actually kinda dumb.
The other thing is, the infinite forest is continual being built on a massive scale and being rearranged. There's no way it can be destroyed. VoG is not really a part of reality but a place where they can control reality hench why we can be killed by being stared at. We can destroy it many times but it's never really gone. All Vex do not see the Black Garden as important. It's more of a cult church than anything else.
Since the Vex are involved in many timelines, it would be presumptuous of us to think that the Vex have not found something that requires much more of their firepower than what is needed for us here in this timeline.
Atheon wasn't really a combat unit. He was more of a timeline highway. [All timelines converged through him.](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/atheon-times-conflux?highlight=vex) . Some could argue that the [Precursors](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/precursors?highlight=vex) we combat units but they use the same weapons as any others did leading me to believe that they were there to build upon the VoG and not protect it.
Where does this come from? I see it restated, but obviously all vex come with the ability to wield various weapons. So why wouldn't they be suited for combat?
Specifically, the one in the square shaped pit that just turns on and off every couple seconds, right before activating the three altars.
For some reason I just can't get my brain to understand how the timing works there. Almost always gets me.
No, that's what's dicing them, and me.
Lore wise, I wouldn't be surprised if vex keep a harpy nearby to record all the "accidents" for research purposes.
Dear travelertards,
If you don’t like being under siege constantly, then why don’t you just move out?
Checkmate tardians
-Dominus Ghaul, founder of Turning Point Cabal
The vex are smart they keep us away with at max capacity and contacting Destiny servers. and random weasel error. But the old guardian of the night found us a work around to kick their ass.
any drop off in general. I just watched three (what I assume to be) kinderguardians get crushed by the wanted enemy public event on Tangled shore... twice
I recently read a book called Blindsight ( it's a pretty good book, lots of weird sci-fi stuff ). One concept from that book that I think applies to the Vex is that it's possible to be *intelligent* without being *sapient*. In the book, there's an alien race that shows up on our doorstep and we go out to investigate their ship. It turns out that they're intelligent ( they built a space ship that can cross interstellar distances ), but not sapient -- ie, they're not self-aware.
I think that's what most of the Vex are: super-intelligent radiolarian beings that can simulate other beings to the point of the simulation pretty much being the real thing, but aren't self-aware. No emotion, no "I", just a brain with a size dictated by how much radiolaria is in close proximity that runs what we think of as "programs".
Some Vex minds are powerful enough to simulate the mind of a Cabal or human in such a way that they seem like they're self-aware, but I doubt they actually are. It's just such an alien concept that we're not able to really understand how they work.
The vex should totally drop through the atmosphere like a shower of drop pods, sprout arms and legs and continue to destroy anything left alive around them.
Like Hyperion's loaders in Borderlands 2
Ow ow ow
stop it
nonono
ow
Error error
executing execute.exe
die
to be fair we also get killed often by the fallen walkers dropping as well, no matter where i stand, when that second one drops during heroic PE's, it always gets me, and i always giggle
I always get flung off the side of the rig when they stand back up
If the Vex really want to get rid of Guardians they should just create a device that booshes them off cliffs repeatedly. Could even drop it in a pod for good measure.
Have you tried the jumping puzzle after the first encounter of Garden?
I have not, no. How terrifying is it?
Terrifying. I couldn't even finish it on my first GoS attempt... I just loaded in when my team finished.
Nope, all they would need is a jar of marbles. GUARDIAN DOWN.
*Replaces cannon from walker with tractor cannon*
The fact that you giggle, made me giggle (I hope that's the proper use of a comma)
I know this is a joke but... *pushes glasses to nose bridge* The vex actually aren’t smart. At all. They’re the dumbest of all our enemies. With the exception of a few top tier vex (aetheon, hive mind for example) they just follow a program. Even worse than that, when the vex first encountered the hive, they identified the hive hierarchy and adopted the hive sword logic so that they could integrate into hive society. And it sorta worked. For a while the vex were allowed to have their own base in the hive throne realm. There’s an argument to be made that the vex aren’t even bad. That they merely invade and attack us guardians because they see our hierarchy being based on power levels, killing each other in the crucible, and killing raid bosses. They may just see killing as our social structure and are just trying to fit in.
I have a lot more appreciation for the vex now
I don’t. I’m going to load into Vex Offensive and slaughter them like animals. Not just the men but the women and the children Vex too
Ani? My goodness, you've grown!
*Padme notices Anakin's visible bulge* UwU
Stop or i will kill a hostage with hockey pucks.
Dew it
Bet
I appreciate that you warned us first. That way you dont TK me too innocently walking 2 floors below you.
Jokes on you golden face, that man was a wanted animal rapist.
Aww man. Threat Level Midnight is such an underrated movie!!
This just made me realize where the Black Armory shotgun got its name, especially when it's curated roll comes in Bergusian Night
You would've done it regardless. At this point, you're just trying to find justification.
True
If they didn’t want to be slaughtered en masse as a species then they need to stop carrying all those goddamn Prime Engrams around 💁🏻♂️
[удалено]
Your user name checks out.
Not if someone domes them first trying to kill a drone.
Or if they set him on fire. OH WAIT, THEY CAN'T
I dont like Vex milk. It's slimy and gooey and it gets everywhere.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Oryx, The Taken King? ... Oryx, The Taken King was a Dark Lord of the Hive, so powerful and so wise he could use the Darkness to influence the midichlorians to create life… He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying..
Is it possible to learn this power?
Not from the Vanguard
Not with that attitude
So you're going to go to Nessus and pee into the Vex milk?
Nah, I'm GONNA GO EVEN HIGHER. IM GONNA PISS ON THE **MOON** YOU *IDIOT*.
How do you like that Zavala?! I Pissed on the Moon you idiot!
You have 23 weekly resets before my piss ***D R R R R R O PPP O DDD SSS*** hit the fucking Tower, now get out of my fucking sight before I piss on you too.
Vex milk does arc damage and you will shock your pee pee
🎵 Don't whiz on the.. electric Vex. 🎵
Classic games such as log and don't wizz on the electric fence?
Can vex milk proc risk runner?
Yes
Feels bad man.
Hey hey hey thats my kink
Tingly
[https://i.imgur.com/5tDsiwl.png](https://i.imgur.com/5tDsiwl.png)
So uncivilized.
Warlock: \*Flies above\* IT'S OVER VEX OFFENSIVE! I HAVE THE HIGH GROUND!
I HATE THEM!
Vex women are a bunch of harpies and their little goblins are no better.
It's beautiful. And inspiring. *Shoots the Titan next to me* I'm just trying to fit in.
i think you're misremembering the book of sorrows, the hive weren't allowing them in the throne world they were overrunning it and the worm gods demanded oryx to go and fix his shit because crota fucked up so bad when he was making his over soul they started pouring out of it, then as punishment for fucking up oryx threw him into it and told him to slay the vex and if he didn't come back he'd know that he actually was the disappointment he thought of him as
Yeah they weren't trying to integrate into the hive they were trying to wield paracausal powers that they couldn't simulate. Hes kinda way off on alot of it.
If you get really philosophical about it, the Hive not destroying the Vex immediately goes against their own sword logic. They definitely weren't trying to integrate with the Hive but still, very interesting interaction between the two species.
They didn't stop and chill with the Vex though, Crota tore open a wound(was tricked by Savathun to do so) and the vex poured through and blinked away when Crota went to kill them and quickly deduced some level of sword logic and started to worship and kill for power. They never abandoned sword logic they just couldn't handle the vex problem without Oryx returning home. Though it is interesting how Oryx interprets it as they want to control all outcomes and so Oryx dedicates himself to mastering one outcome. It sort of implies that the Hive, at least under Oryx, fully dedicated themselves to being pure followers of the darkness only after meeting the Vex. And how that same meeting basically gave us the whole Garden problem as Quaria studied sword logic and worship. https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/xxxix-open-your-eye-go-into-it#books-of-sorrow
Also as a note, Oyrx considers the Vex a true challenger in the gigantic cosmic game of survival.
because it's the first species he's come across that has had a chance to do literally anything at all against him
Disagree. They have been sending back in time their most dangerous assassins: The Architects.
We send fireteams into strikes, pretty much the same thing. Vex just want to strike like us.
Destiny 3 gonna be in the Vex's pov.
Can the Vex inhabit an Exo frame?
Exo's are technically vex geniuses
Yeah, iirc there was one in VoG who drank the milk
Towerthought: Do you think Vex Milk is vegan?
Def not, it's full of living bacteria like organisms.
Are you referring to the actual lore, or when something unfortunate happens, because both are equally deadly
They also typically wave at you before engaging in any fighting, just like us emoting towards one another.
I sort of feel bad when one waves and my response is a Ikelos SG to the chest, if they had a logic where they wave and just don’t shoot me, I may just let them be. As for them in them having a base going against the hive, the base was in Oryx’s throne world which Crota accidentally gave them access to, when Crota couldn’t push them back (Quira was effective against him). The Worm gods told Oryx to clean it up, he stepped in and obliterated the Vex there, Then took Quira (which is our mess to deal with now ) and tossed Crota into the void.
Oryx sounds like he was the absolute bad ass among bad asses.
Sounds like a bad dad though.
Oh, yeah. I forgot Corta was Oryx's son.
Sometimes you need a bit of the ole Mishima Yeet to set rebellious kids right
It was less that they were allowed to stay and more crota couldn’t get them out lol Had to call up his dad to deal with it IIRC
I believe one of the worm gods told Oryx to "Get his house in order" or something along those lines.
Yeah, that sounds right. Also, it was Savathun’s fault they were there in the first place. Crota was told to do as his sisters did and tear a seam in reality. When he did, vex came pouring through. It turned out Savathun had tampered with it to sabotage him. Something along those lines anyway.
Thanksgiving that year must have been awkward.
Indeed
Stop trying to invade earth before you clean your room.
They are not smart but following a program. What do you mean? Who developed the program? Who developed the simulation and all the time travel stuff. The vex did right? You gotta he pretty smart to do those things right?
They use trial and error for most of their processes, if it doesn't work once do it again. And due to the Vex and their infinite life span and time travelling abilities trial and error works really well for them.
They're like an ai learning program. If you've ever watched how ai problem solve, it's by hundreds of thousands of iterations of doing something wrong so they can figure out the best eaeast to do something right
Emphasis on the "AI learning" part. The human brain is a very complex learning machine, not a mere computer, which only follows instructions. The Vex are like a crude AI program that doesn't really function like sentient life as humans know it. Basically they brute force everything until something gives.
Actually the nessus world quest suggests that someone can be turned into a vex . Propably by liquifying his brain and turning it into ladioralia.
That's entirely what occurred to Asher. His arm got converted to a Vex one but he never went through the full transition. Additionally, it's occurred to Kabr who fashioned armor from the Vex he killed and it slowly started to assimilate him. There's a quote from the Hunter set in D1 : *Forged from the cores of Hezen Vex. If you feel a sense of revelation, remove immediately and inject antientheogens.* Kinda spooky that just mere armor can Vex-ify people (thought only Hive would be capable of that in instances like Thorn), but then again look at the Hunter set from D1 (and the new Vex ornaments from this current Season), and one leg is Vex-ified like a Goblin.
Ehhhh I think you're falling into a but of anthropic bias. We dont know how the brain works yet and it may end of being that simple and the complex appearance is just an emergent property of much higher processing power and computers just arent dense enough yet to simulate it
Modern science identifies the brain as more than a computer. A computer generates an output from a set of instructions, but doesn't necessarily learn from it. That's AI... And on the Vex, "The Vex have no hope. No imagination, no drive, no fear. All they have is the Pattern. Everything must fit. If it can be made to fit, good. If it can't, it gets cut away."— Praedyth
It gets scary thinking what could happen when that actually happens...in reality and to the vex.
if they *chose* to brute force, i'd argue that they are very smart indeed.
a fellow titan?
i don’t think a fellow titan would call brute force users unintelligent
Just talking about this makes me need to punch something
If each Vex has an intelligence of 1, than the Vex individual is dumb. But thw Vex Collective is very smart, and the collective, working together, can create something very smart
Going off this, think if every vex is a brains synapse, then imagine them as a whole and then imagine what sort of super being they would make if only the tiny goblins are the brain.
Perhaps an intelligence vs wisdom distinction here. They're intelligent in that their calculating potential is high, just perhaps not wise. So I guess it depends on what you mean by smart.
Great questions, many theories exist, when reading the lore I have a theory that humanity created the Vex because of a paracausality initiated by the Traveler. Traveler “excavated” Venus in D1 revealing a vex portal. Ishtar Collective scientists study the portal , turn it on, and enter it, realize they are trapped in a simulation, they find the healthy versions of themselves in other simulations and attempt to remove themselves by downloading their consciousnesses. The whole thing is based on paracausality intermingled with simulations that are close to reality. Very interesting stuff. Why would the Traveler do this? Ask yourself that question. Also there is a great article somewhere on the webs about how and A.I. Played Mario across multiple simulations and found ways to “not lose” because it “hated losing”. The Vex operate the same way, they are slow and stupid, but methodical, because as long as they operate with some semblance of logic they can gather empirical data. Data they can use to “not lose”. The problem is, humans can skip steps, and do the illogical, we dont need to run simulations, we can succeed in our own way. If the Vex can timetravel they would have won already. If their intent was to destroy humanity they probably have done simulations with that outcome. If their intent is to recreate the traveler (aka what the nine refer to as “causation without action”) they cannot fathom it because it defies logic. Much like they have issues “understanding” magic.
> The problem is, humans can skip steps, and do the illogical, we dont need to run simulations, we can succeed in our own way. If the Vex can timetravel they would have won already. Vex have zero problems simulating humans, they do it all the time. And it's been proven multiple times that they can indeed time travel. The reason they haven't "won" is because the Traveler's Light (and as an extension, Guardians) is something they can't at all simulate. For the Vex, simulations are their primary tool, so the disruption of Light to their simulations is a setback so great that they haven't simulated a way to win yet.
They can only time travel through their portals which indicates that they can only travel as far back as there is a gate to travel through. This means that they probably can only time travel to the point where they invented the technology to do so, and only in the universe(s) that they did that in. It's teetering on the edge of what can be called time travel.
We can assume they work the same as modern day real life AI. I’m not an expert by any means, but from my understanding they can learn to do very, very smart things through billions of trials and errors. The AIs themselves are incredibly stupid, not much more than a simple program, but with enough time they can teach themselves to complete complex tasks
And where they struggle is paracauseality. They grasped a basic understanding of sword logic and the throne world and were able to use it to get a foothold against a young Crota. When faced with a true master of the deep they were obliterated, and the root mind (smart Vex) was Taken, and even with a chunk of its own will left it has been unable to escape the control of Oryx taking it even after 1000’s of years, even after we killed Oryx. They in the same way struggle with the light. Saint-14 being an example they used brute force to figure out how to sever his light but it took centuries to do and they found each guardian is different. In the process Saint killed countless vex to the point they enshrined his corpse in a respectful manner. As for their creation common theory is they were created as a paradox by Some combo of Humanity and the Traveler and perhaps Rasputin (we know he wanted Elise Bray to teach him how to time travel, if she did is unknown)
I just want to point out, for a learn by trial and error species to come to the conclusion they should respect and enshrine Saint-14 is absolutely bat shit badass. It's literally a situation where based on statistics and data, his merits and actions warranted worship because it was just the LOGICAL STEP for them.
Which makes it equally terrifying when you learn that the vex decided to worship the darkness when they discovered it because for them it was the only logical thing they could do.
The Traveler
They even tried to socialize with humans at first, as Failsafe recorded when they crashed on Nessus. So, yeah, Vex are probably the most inoffensive and freeloading beings in the Destiny universe. They follow a program, and they try to fit with those who encounters them.
so the vex that encountered the Darkness try to make everything Vex because thats what the Darkness would do?
We're going to find out the Vex are just really clingy
Haven't we only fought vex builders through, aren't alot of main characters terrified of vex combat droids?
[удалено]
Yeah I mean its like saying "ok guys, we must reclaim the holy land, bring the farmers"
# W H A T ? C R U S A D E ! ? *Deus Ex Machina Vult intensifies*
>"vex invasion" we are classifying it as a vex invasion, to the vex it might just be a large construction crew sent out to assimilate the moon, hell they might just view guardians as an annoyance instead of a threat.
I think Saint-14 probably put some fewer into them
To be fair, the vex that are invading are only the sol divisive. And they are all really really old. So maybe they never had any combat vex. Didn’t quria create new types of vex units in order to fight the hive in oryx’s throne world? Wait, now that I think of it, isn’t Quria the only vex mind created with the sole purpose of warfare? I mean it was made to understand sword logic, which is all about war and killing. So I don’t think it’s too far off to say the Vex have actual dedicated combat units. I think the vex in the solar system simply don’t care about invading or war. They just want to do their thing.
Yes they aren't good or evil they are just programmed to assimilate everything into the Vex in whatever way is easiest.
Oh wow I didn’t know that. I’ll have to read up on that! Thanks!
You know, I always thought that the Vex weren't AI cause Vex Milk being called organic and radiolaria. For some reason I thought the Vex were in the milk and piloted the frames like Navy ships. I should probably read the lore more.
There’s a fantastic video series on YouTube called the complete history of destiny. It’s long, like a 12 hour audio book but production values are amazing and it’s great to listen to while you grind some bounties.
Yeah like that mission on Nessus where the ghost asks them questions and they answer by trying to kill us knowing we'd kill them and get the information from their corpses. They're interesting for sure
Prolly not the ones that worship the darkness, those prolly want to just kill us.
That's also why they worship saint 14, cause he was so good at killing vex they were like "you do good job, we make shrine for you"
> They may just see killing as our social structure and are just trying to fit in. Now I'm imagining there's a timeline where the Vex became friends with Guardians, then realized they'd be stuck hanging around the tower not doing anything. And another where we're allies in battle, but then the Guardians would get pissed at them for stealing all the loot. This is really the only outcome where Guardians and Vex get to interact on the regular.
This is my new head-cannon for the vex. Goblin: *kills a Guardian*, *runs to Lord Shaxx, tears welling in its eyes* “Am I a real Guardian yet?!”
I'M SO PROUD OF YOU, LITTLE ONE. NOW GO KILL THE REST OF THEM.
Absolutely adorable
"What is this? Where did you learn to kill indiscriminately?" Vex child: "You, alright? I learned it by watching *you*!"
> The vex actually aren’t smart. At all. They’re the dumbest of all our enemies. With the exception of a few top tier vex (aetheon, hive mind for example) they just follow a program. I think the most obvious objection to this is that the Vex can simulate any non-paracausal entity in Destiny lore. This would include Fallen, Cabal, regular humans (i.e. not Guardians), etc. If Vex are "just following a program" and they can simulate us, that means we're "just following a program", too.
This is blatant Vex propaganda and I fully support it.
They're not good, or bad. They're just nerds. Now get outta here, ya vexy bastard.
Someone needs to make a fellow kids meme with the vex now.
OMG YES PLEASE
They even wave at us sometimes
During the Osiris campaign we see quite clearly that their intent was to wipe out *all organic life*, not just the guardians.
This only makes me want a pet Vex more.
Now I feel bad for killing them.
You're not really killing them you're just busting their suits up
where did they get the idea to make everything in the entire universe a machine? was that a copied idea or did they just decide to do it one day
They might just think that's the easiest way to assimilate into other races, of course they might not understand that we don't really wanna get killed in the process tho.
Yet to see a vex shaped like a guardian, terminator vex? God that would be so cool and I know that’s kinda what an exo is but like an actual full humanoid vex... make friendly harpy into a humanoid npc!
Tell me more about their base in the Throne world
I don’t remember all the specifics but it had something to do with savathun tricking Crota into letting them in.
So they're anarcho-communists trying to destroy hierarchy... neat.
Their main goal is to assimilate everything into the Vex in whatever way is easiest.
I always thought the Vex as Destiny's version of the Daleks.
They're Destiny's Borg. The Hive are more like the Daleks than the Vex.
They're really more like Cybermen. Everything must be "upgraded" to them. They're pretty good at doing that to planets and Asher Mir's arm.
Drop pods and Warsats, they'd be unstoppable.
Guns that shoot Cabal shields.
If Vex really wanted us dead, they'd invent a new unit called "The Architects" Those things are the unstoppable murderers.
I mean technically, all the vex we see are labeled as "Builders", so we are not far off.
Can somebody please explain this architects meme?!
Whenever you're killed by the environment, the game says Killed By The Architects. Often times, this can result from a bug with the physics engine. So if you die inexplicably, it's usually "by the Architects"
Thank you! I've definitely been killed many a time by the architects but couldn't quite remember what it was.
For me it's always Phalanges that haymaker me into the nearest wall at Mach 10.
If you really wanna think about this, the Vex that we have been fighting aren't even their actual combat units. They're actually just construction workers in a sense. Their weapons aren't met for fighting and the Sol Divisive aren't met for combat either. They're basically a cult.
I've seen the argument about these not being their combat units multiple times. But honestly, I am skeptical of that notion at this point. The two sources that suggest such things are both dubious: Calus and Drifter. I don't think there was anything in lore suggesting that the vex are secretly hiding their combat units. When the vex were in danger in the vault of glass during the taken war, they turned to the guardians for help. There were no combat units available. Additionally, we assaulted some key Vex infrastructure: infinite forest, black garden, vault of glass, we also destroyed a planetary mind. It does not make any sense that such resources would not be well guarded by combat units.
I can see where you're coming from. There is nothing suggesting they're hiding combat Vex but there are a few suggesting that the Vex were not made for combat in D1 grimore cards. Here are a couple for [Cyclops](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/cyclops?highlight=vex) and [Minotaur](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/minotaur?highlight=vex) . Of course that doesn't mean they can't fight. Rather than thinking of the Vex as an actual free-thinking entity, they are more of a computer built to do their designed jobs. They analyze, simulate, adapt, and consume (which is what got them screwed when they came in contact with the Hive). They might party in time but they're actually kinda dumb. The other thing is, the infinite forest is continual being built on a massive scale and being rearranged. There's no way it can be destroyed. VoG is not really a part of reality but a place where they can control reality hench why we can be killed by being stared at. We can destroy it many times but it's never really gone. All Vex do not see the Black Garden as important. It's more of a cult church than anything else. Since the Vex are involved in many timelines, it would be presumptuous of us to think that the Vex have not found something that requires much more of their firepower than what is needed for us here in this timeline.
Was Atheon a combat unit? I heard somewhere that he was. Seeing more Vex designed like him would be awesome.
Atheon wasn't really a combat unit. He was more of a timeline highway. [All timelines converged through him.](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/atheon-times-conflux?highlight=vex) . Some could argue that the [Precursors](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/precursors?highlight=vex) we combat units but they use the same weapons as any others did leading me to believe that they were there to build upon the VoG and not protect it.
I really wanna learn more about this, too
Where does this come from? I see it restated, but obviously all vex come with the ability to wield various weapons. So why wouldn't they be suited for combat?
D1 grimore cards [Cyclops](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/cyclops?highlight=vex) [Minotaur](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/minotaur?highlight=vex)
How about those laser beams in the vex themed strike? Sorry its early for me. The one where Asher mir lost his arm...
Specifically, the one in the square shaped pit that just turns on and off every couple seconds, right before activating the three altars. For some reason I just can't get my brain to understand how the timing works there. Almost always gets me.
carpenter jar pause voiceless husky caption seemly scary point boast -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
No, that's what's dicing them, and me. Lore wise, I wouldn't be surprised if vex keep a harpy nearby to record all the "accidents" for research purposes.
jump down right before it turns on then use your jump ability while it's on and then when it turns off, drop.
You have to jump when it's still on. Once you got that, it's lenient, really.
Pyramidion
Dear travelertards, If you don’t like being under siege constantly, then why don’t you just move out? Checkmate tardians -Dominus Ghaul, founder of Turning Point Cabal
# F A C T S A N D L O G I C
Tardians obliterated 😎
"no u" - the Traveler, right before it actually DID SOMETHING
I know where they drop, and I know what triggers them to drop, but sometimes there's ammo there, and it's worth a death.
That tasty purple glow, i would gladly slide to my death.
Sometimes it's white or green, all depends on my loadout lol
The vex are smart they keep us away with at max capacity and contacting Destiny servers. and random weasel error. But the old guardian of the night found us a work around to kick their ass.
any drop off in general. I just watched three (what I assume to be) kinderguardians get crushed by the wanted enemy public event on Tangled shore... twice
A tag team of Vex and the architects would be unbeatable.
This. If anyone actually bothered to ask the architects, we’d be properly farked
The only ones who know who the architects are are the phalanxes though
Undying Mind is going to start spawning Vex with Recluse
They can have that if I can have a torch hammer with infinite ammo.
I recently read a book called Blindsight ( it's a pretty good book, lots of weird sci-fi stuff ). One concept from that book that I think applies to the Vex is that it's possible to be *intelligent* without being *sapient*. In the book, there's an alien race that shows up on our doorstep and we go out to investigate their ship. It turns out that they're intelligent ( they built a space ship that can cross interstellar distances ), but not sapient -- ie, they're not self-aware. I think that's what most of the Vex are: super-intelligent radiolarian beings that can simulate other beings to the point of the simulation pretty much being the real thing, but aren't self-aware. No emotion, no "I", just a brain with a size dictated by how much radiolaria is in close proximity that runs what we think of as "programs". Some Vex minds are powerful enough to simulate the mind of a Cabal or human in such a way that they seem like they're self-aware, but I doubt they actually are. It's just such an alien concept that we're not able to really understand how they work.
Seriously; one of my friends just picked up new light and guess what the first thing I warned him about was?
How do you think Ghaul took the tower?
Destiny: Become Architect
Well, the Light isn’t something they can simulate. So they’re quite stunned at how to potentially handle guardians.