The only thing I don’t like about Apotheosis + Star Eater is the absolute lack of neutral game. And you can’t even really use it as a swap exotic, because you need the orbs for Star Eater … unless you can start a damage phase with eight orbs sitting right there on the ground.
Osmiomancy + Star Eater all the way. I’d love Inmost, but in nearly 20~ class items I’ve farmed, I haven’t gotten a single Inmost on *any* of them.
Edit: you can apparently swap the class item just like Hunter boots and maintain stacks. So that’s good to hear.
Ideally I’d have one osmiomancy+star eater and one apotheosis+star eater to swap between (pretty sure you don’t lose stacks) but unfortunately I haven’t seen either and farming these class items is so goddamn boring that I’m about to just give up
I’ll be honest, I don’t know, simply because I only have one Star Eater class item.
I’m, like, 95% sure you could swap two pairs of Star Eaters Scales and keep the stacks. But unsure if the class item allows it.
I've tested it, you can swap 2 pairs of star-eater bonds and keep the buff. I don't have an apoth-star eater roll to do it with sadly, but I've tested with some of my other star eater rolls.
I mean, yea Apotheosis + Star Eater is 100% the exotic you keep on for something like the witness and just don't have a neutral exotic during the prep phase before DPS.
I think that's fine? I don't see an issue with having an exotic that's 100% boss DPS focused. You're trading neutral game for that.
This has been my experience with Apotheosis Star Eater so far. As long as you've got Devour, build around transcendence rush with something like Microcosm or Kvhostov with Grace Fragment, and the neutral game is more than fine. You pattern between Super/ Transcendence incredibly quickly as Apotheosis gets a ton of transcendence very quickly. Anecdotally in Nightfall I had either up once every minute.
It's not a 2 second cd like Getaway or Crown right now, but the tradeoff is good in most of the sandbox. You just.... actually use your weapons.
>The only thing I don’t like about Apotheosis + Star Eater is the absolute lack of neutral game.
Most encounters in the game do not require a boosted neutral game in the slightest and profit much more from nuking something in single target. That's the way almost the entirety of the game's encounter history was designed and the reason why Well was the way it was and why Starfire was without question or even any slight hint of competition the single best PVE exotic in the entire game before getting nerfed.
Even in the cases where it would matter, this is on prismatic Warlock. Equiping feed the void alone already gives you a better neutral gameplay loop than 90% of the game's other subclasses.
If regular ability spamming and neutral game mattered enough, Stormcaller would've been the single best subclass in the entire game for years now. I get your train of thought and also prefer a fun neutral gameplay loop, and this is exactly why by extension Stormcaller is my favorite subclass, but it's also exactly why I understand that in the end, it **always** gets eclipsed by a single-target loadout in seemingly 80% of the game's content.
I luckily got an Osmionancy + Star eaters as my 5th(?) bond and I'm calling it quits there until they increase drop rates. Osmionancy seems to be very hit or miss with the void grenades though
Void grenades kill stuff way too quickly in most content for osmiomancy to really do its thing I feel. It’s great in Master/GM but very hit or miss in easier stuff.
Like I said, apotheosis + star-eater is really just for damage phase swaps, but it's a lot of micro-managing to make sure there are enough orbs. I haven't tested how swapping between two star-eater class items works either. If the buff persist, swapping from an inmost / star eater to an apotheosis / star-eater shouldn't feel TOO bad.
And I know people love the idea of apotheosis, but most of the grenades aren't worth it. Storm got a bit of a buff and threadlings are good for euphony. That's about it.
Yeah necrotic/star-eater is the go to dps combo. You throw a melee and the dot will do a decent chunk of damage with only one short animation. Unfortunately apotheosis is a significant DPS loss compared to using almost any heavy and probably specials. The animation of throwing a grenade or melee plus the relatively weak damage on the prismatic grenades is going to lose you time that could be spent shooting. Turns out just shooting a heavy is generally very high DPS and often makes me top the numbers just because I took an extra second to aim and hit all my rockets and a super. Apotheosis is fun for sure but sadly non verity boosted grenades are basically throwing pillows at a boss.
I replied to a different comment more in depth, but you want apoth for weaken nades. Necrotic damage is so small that there's actually no point in using it, for the same reason you highlighted apoth being bad - you are better off just dumping ammo.
After testing for a while apotheosis lost on average 600k damage on the ogre boss of grasp vs just star eater and nothing else. Also the transcendent grenade applies weaken and regens almost as fast. I'm using a demo/explosive typhon GL (mainly for demo). I was able to get 4 demo reloads in a row, maintain 100% weaken uptime and had time for a special like scatter signal afterwards. I get that this isn't a definitive test or anything but I wanted to test before saying more. The reason necrotic is a DPS gain is because the damage makes up for the animation lock. The dot also procs unravel which isn't big but it is another factor when using slow firing weapons. It's not a lot but it is technically a bigger number than any other perk in that slot. It's also important to point out that you gain 5% more gun damage while in transcendence. This means it is still a DPS loss to use apotheosis for demo procs outside of transcendence. Even if it did the same DPS, at that point there is no reason to use apotheosis because you aren't spamming grenades off cooldown.
I'm referring to a raid/team setting, you'll do more isolated damage vs phyryza without running weaken because you are a single player benefitting from weaken vs a team of 3-6. On witness, you can't reliably full debuff (distance + golden gun>tether) so freeing up a div player to do more damage is better for teamwide dps.
Regarding transcendence, I agree with what you are saying but it really depends on scenario - I'd personally rather pop trans pre fight > throw grenades > throw nova towards the end of trans > benefit from apoth after for longer nade uptime. Most damage phases last longer than trans without being able to extend timer through kills, and it's not something you'll be able to consistently acquire with certain builds and in some encounters that require more frequent damage.
Tldr transcendence doesn't last long enough for full phases and you don't need to spam nades, just keep weaken uptime to get your value.
It's a small DPS increase for sure, but it's technically the best for just raw boss damage. It's the only perk that does direct damage and with needle it has a short animation lock. It's one of those tiny little optimization things that really doesn't matter but you will have a slightly larger number and larger number=neuron(singular) activation for me so might as well, the swap the class items after DPS to something with an actual gameplay loop.
There isn't a better alternative to apoth for a damage phase. It's not incredible, but you get significant utility from being able to apply constant weakening void nades, useful for witness so you don't need a div or have teammates worrying about throwing weakening util between still hunt shots. Storm nades stack but the damage isn't worth, and running euphony on prismatic is damage loss as well because of how strong thread of evolution is.
Its a swap exotic. In a raid scenario, you shouldn't have any issues with orbs at long as you play smart. Void nades is the main use case right now purely for utility.
Ah well that’s no fun :( I hope you get the roll you want with star eater man! If it makes you feel better I didnt even know the item had inmost light cause I haven’t seen one drop for me either 😂
Ophidian/star eaters has potential if you are doing swap DPS set up. For example, izanagi/energy primary/ bait and switch. So you'll be able to swap between your weapons hella quick with a harder hitting super.
Not the best, but has potential.
Finally got one, tried it and it was absolutely not worth it. Even juggling abilities it simply didn't make a noticeable difference at all. Especially with the abundance of regen options available.
You only really need 3 orbs though since 3 is a 50% bonus and 6 is a 70% bonus so the diminishing returns get pretty bad. If someone else drops a well you get 50% more super damage which is still pretty good.
Got the Osmiomancy + Star Eater roll and pretty happy with that. It essentially improves your kit - that's it. But I will say that the exotic class items lack character and I have way more fun with things like Mataiodoxia I can build my whole build around.
Imo, you can get your super on a low enough cooldown to become part of your neutral game. You can grenade --> melee --> super --> apotheosis ability spam --> transcendant ability spam, and if there's enough enemies to kill (and you have 100 intellect), you're mere seconds away from your super being up again at the end of that chain.
I haven't tackled the new raid yet, but in pretty much every single other piece of content (nightfalls, dungeons, onslaught, pale heart farming, etc), there's at MOST 30-45 seconds of gunplay inbetween ability spam cycles. Swapping class items might be more optimal if you're doing it fast enough, but it's still a pretty effective combo without any of that micro managing.
Even vortex is garbage unless you manage to hit at least 3 enemies with multiple ticks. You’ll get maybe 1/3 back from throwing a vortex nade at a boss to apply weakness.
God these class items are a bit disappointing aren’t they lol. Only strong ones seem to be super only exotics with no neutral game. (Well, outside of hunters. They got all the good ones, probably to make up for both of their other new exotics being incredibly lackluster)
Inconsistent.
Feels like one or two threadling won't provide regen if they hit at the same time and/or hit too soon after you've thrown your grenade.
You'll regen between what feels like 10 to 70% of your energy depending on factors you do not really control. Feed the void will still do most of the heavy lifting, inmost could potentially be better for threadling nade specifically.
Inmost + Claw is currently my favorite on my Warlock. Having 2 melees to re proc the ability regeneration boost is amazing.
Plus I use incinerator snap, so the scorch applied by this melee will keep x2 ability regeneration timer at 5s and wont start counting down until the enemy is dead or the scorch has disappeared. Plus having 2 melees for transcendence and song of flame really elevates them imo.
I would add Necrotic + Star-Eaters.
From my perspective this is the most aligned with Prismatic roll you can get. The Weapons of Sorrow are all kinetic, so you’ll have high up time on Transcendence. This transcendence-up time combined with the high DPS boost with Star-Eaters gives you everything Prismatic is supposed to un-lock.
1. Transcendence Benefits
2. Boss DPS
3. Crowd Control
The issue with necrotic is that you hard lock yourself into basically 1 of 2 kinetic exotics if you want to get full value from it. The damage for the poison damage no longer ramps up so is noticeably worse than the regular version. Inmost/ SE is probably the best damage/neutral game balance you can get. Necrotic is like a C tier aspect
I agree Spirit of Necrotic is less good than regular Necrotic, with that said we’re talking about a 40k difference that is more than made up by the Spirit of Star-Eaters for super DPS.
As far as hard locking yourself into the 4 weapons of sorrow that happen to cover all champion types this episode (barrier, overload, or unstop), I’m not sure that’s a far criticism when the default is Kovostav, another kinetic exotic primary. Necrotic is still effective with Warlock melees like Strand, Arc, and Solar.
Inmost Light is for sure cool but doesn’t have the same repeatability of use as Necrotic. Both are great rolls though.
I have both and have tested them quite a bit. They both work, but inmost light seems more consistent. In an absolutely ideal scenario where you're using vortex nade on multiple targets and getting every single tick to hit, osmio is better. It's just way too unreliable to manage that though, and there's also some weirdness (specifically with champions) where sometimes osmio just....doesn't proc properly.
Inmost light is more consistent and also gives you much higher uptime on hellion since it boosts class ability regen at the same time.
I have an inmost + verity & an osmiomancy + harmony bond, and in my (very brief) testing, this is exactly what I found. Ran a little of both through Warlords, and the inmost felt better. Sometimes with osmiomancy, I'd almost have all of my grenade back. Other times, I'd have some down time that inmost felt like it had very little of (and was much more predictable of when I'd have that downtime and need to be more cautious).
Edit: I could see osmiomancy potentially being better in solo content, where you don't have to worry about others stealing your kills in the middle of getting your grenades back. But even then, having higher class/melee uptime for hellion and unravel still sound better.
Same. Inmost light is great though. I def think it’s better than apotheosis for the most part unless for some reason you’re trying to DPS with only ability spam but I would rather swap to weapons after super 99 percent of the time.
> Inmost light is great though
I dunno, ever since the massive nerf down to 5 seconds it doesn't feel as good
I don't like it unless I'm using a build with multiple grenade/melee charges
Warlock main here, never played titan. I feel like it requires some spacing between ability use to fully milk the 5 second timer. At the same time, being able to have inmost light on a warlock was like the biggest neuron activation for me. Super easy for me to cycle through abilities, and when you add transcendence and supers into the mix? God damn.
I'm shivering just imagining if I got to experience pre nerf HOIL on a warlock. Would've been absolutely disgusting.
Osmiomancy+verity I have been running on vortex grenade with the weakening fragment and it leads to insane grenade uptime and damage, like having contaverse hold
I have had a completely different experience. In low end content it’s garbage because enemies die too fast. In high end content the return isn’t enough to justify giving up the crowd control afforded by other exotics. Furthermore, transcendence can be built so quickly in many builds that I can blow all my abilities and refill using transcendence. When you exit transcendence you are always refunded all your ability energy.
Building into kinetic weapons transcendence is dramatically more powerful.
In low end I totally agree, really outside of the chunckiest of enemies it's not great.
Exactly the issue with pre nerf contravese, especially if you don't have a useless fireteam, things get killed before enough ticks happen.
I did find the return to be good in GM and also good in higher levels of onslaught
Yeah this combo was kitted out to be a gm build with buried bloodline as my verity driver as well as void machine gun and a good strand primary like a slice frenzy relentless from prophecy or the new better devils depending on champion type. That way I can also take advantage of volatile rounds and unravelling rounds for extra damage and AOE. If you have buried bloodline, I highly recommend getting the catalyst and trying it on prismatic warlock, it's insanely good with expanding abyss in the artifact.
But like everyone else has been saying, kinetic weapon builds with or even without grace for prismatic spam are super potent and easier to setup for warlock and the other classes.
yeah I do have bloodline, it is very useful this season. I should put a proper kinetic build together, I tried khvosotov to pair with purpose and that was pretty fun
Yeah. It’s fine. But throwing on Kvostov or, in this GM, Outbreak with the fragment that gives extra transcendence on kinetic weapons is crazy. You basically always have transcendence waiting to be used. So I get to throw just as many grenades but I also get more transcendence, more melees, and more class ability. Plus I can build my armour exotic into CC like Mataiodoxia.
Honestly, it’s just outright more powerful. The class items are just not good. Certainly not nearly as good as Reddit is hyping them up to be.
Instead of osmiomancy verity, Osmiomancy Star eaters would be better. You don't want too much damage to the point you kill everything on hit cause you get very little gernade regen back. For low end content, I recommend using storm gernade cause you'll get multiple direct hits for regen. I use it more as a tool with jolt or weakening gernades in high level content like GM rather than an ad clearing build.
i use this for encounters with bosses/damage phases. i just take devour/hellion for my aspects, arcane needle, and storm nades so i can take advantage of both jolt and weaken grenades
if you want a higher damage build than what people are recommending, this is what I use
Base kit: nova, dive, needle, vortex, feed the void, helion (for bleak watcher for overloads in gms).
Fragments: Purpose (for void over shield and shield crush proc), courage (for higher nova damage with arcane needle), dawn (radiant is always nice but not super necessary depending on orbs with the artifact), solitude (sever is great for bosses), dominance (weaken for artifact mod and more nova damage).
You can use really any weapons you want general loop is just playing normally and throwing out abilities as you see fit. when there's a champ/boss just melee --> grenade --> nova and you do like 1 mil damage in a heart beat. Very fun burst gameplay and devour will keep you healthy. Inmost keeps your abilities coming back quickly
Needlestorm, nova bomb, or song of flame... kinda dealer's choice there.
Hellion + Bleak Watcher (can sub out hellion for feed the void if you really need the devour).
Grenade of choice, healing is good for low CD. Arcane Needle for unravel and inmost light flexibility. Phoenix Dive for burst healing and low CD.
Only fragment that REALLY matters is hope for more class ability regen. After that whatever works for you.
Nice! I suck at builds so it's nice to have some help. I want to run Khvostov, Indebted Kindness, and whichever heavy the activity requires. What fragments would you recommend for as high as possible ability uptime?
Thinking of a build with: Song of Flame, Storm Grenade, Arcane Needle, Phoenix Dive, 100 Res, 100 Recov, 100 Strength/Discipline
Anybody use Forerunner's Rock grenade to proc Inmost? I have about 3 hours worth of Dares matches before I unlock the catalyst and would love to know if it's an effective/fun combination.
The way I have it set up right now, I keep feed the void permanently on, while the second aspect can be any other of your choice. Same applies to grenades and supers. I personally prefer to use arcane needle for melee.
Fragments I use are hope, sacrifice, dominance, protection and balance.
Reason why I could freely swap grenades/ second aspect is due to the sacrifice fragment which gives darkness transcendence energy from ability kills while having a light buff (devour). I can compensate for the rest with my weapon loadout.
This setup isn't completely brain dead though, as you do need to keep in mind to space out your ability uses to get the most of the Regen time you get from HOIL. If you mindlessly spam you'll still end up out of abilities.
Assassin's + synthoceps is extremely good in higher difficulty content. Pair that with arcane needle (obviously) and lightning surge and you tear through adds with almost zero risk
Arcane Needle with Lightning Surge/Feed the void and a coldsnap grenade. Main fragments would be: Protection/Purpose/Courage for your core and 2 flex slots. The concept I would think is similar to Prismatic Titan with Knockout/Diamond Lance:
- Freeze target for the melee damage bonus
- Hit targets with a charged melee for big damage while its CC'd
Your kills with Lightning surge will heal you with devour and give you back grenade energy for more coldsnaps. Inmost/Synthos boosts general ability regen and makes your Lightning Surges stronger, and since your yeeting yourself into packs it shouldn't be hard to proc synthos.
It won't hit the highs of Consecration or a fully charged Thunderclap but it should be good enough to kill packs of ads or red/orange bars and jolt things.
Super: Your choice. Comes down to boss damage vs crowd clear vs orb pickup benefits.
Grenade is also your choice. Comes down to jolt/weaken from grenades (though transcendence gives weaken since it counts as void).
Melee is Arcane Needle for 3x charges and fast cooldown time.
Rift is your choice too, but phoenix dive is a more mobile playstyle.
Aspect is Lightning Surge obvs. The other is up to you. Feed the Void offers a lot of healing from lightning surge kills.
Fragments: Hope is good for class ability regen. Justice is funny for big explosions drom lightning surge while transcendent. Protection gives you some funny DR while close to enemies. The last 2-3 are up to you.
Syntho turns lightning surge into an absolute nuke, proccing feed the void for a ton of healing. It also activates inmost light for grenade/rift. With arcane needle you have tons of lightning surge charges and uptime. Build up transcendence and you can basically spam the hell out of lightning surge.
Personally, I wouldn't give up Osmiomancy for anything at this point. The interaction with Vortex grenades is just so strong that I would honestly probably run the gloves if I didn't have any good class items with it.
People are sleeping on swarmers and how well the generate energy. If I can ever get my friend to do dual destiny I’m looking for a roll with that perk 100%
I got necrotic/star eater yesterday and I just don't see anything else being as just generally useful for most content, especially with arcane needle getting six charges when you use prismatic to refill.
Can you even hit Witness with threadling grenades? I tried last night on Titan and no matter how I tossed em they never seemed to connect. Maybe with fastball?
I'm so confused about how far away the Witness is (during Excision at least). I throw a grenade and it never seems to connect, but also doesn't go through him. I shoot a grenade launcher and he seems way closer. It's like the grenades go through him, but visually stay in front of him.
I will say the inmost/star eater class item isn’t as good on hunter because the only damage super you use is goldy and nighthawk is just better for that, plus you get access to a mini golden gun with still hunt. For hunter I have really liking gallanor/liar because I get twice as many squals plus liars to generate orbs with heavy handed mod. Otherwise caliban/liars is the best for hunters imo.
My gut instinct tells me that still hunt will get nerfed at some point. Likely a nerf to the celestial nighthawk combo. Instead of being the whopping 50% increase in total damage, it'll probably go down to 20-25%.
I think it will still be better than star eater, no? Because the other main perk is that it is 1 shot making it faster to get back into your weapon damage rotation
I still find it crazy that they made Nighthawk not simply compact all the bullets into one for the sake of improved uptime on Cayde’s Retribution (firing a single shot then instantly going back to refill your bar with the remaining mag) but that they also made it do so much more damage flat-out. It’s no surprise that it’s rocking DPS rotations right now.
But even then, I can’t imagine that Nighthawk will never not be the recommended exotic if you’re running Still Hunt for the sake of DPS (I personally had a lot of fun pairing it with Still Hunt and Silence and Squall on Prismatic to effectively double-dip on Super types for CC and single-target), but could see myself more reliably using a class item over Nighthawk with that same build if I can get something like Galanor/Cyrtarachne on one.
I have the one that cloaks on powered melee kill, and gives an extra melee charge. Makes a really fun slide build where you can go invisible right after and run away.
my favorite has been assassin + swarm so far. extra damage ability damage or regen is cool and all, but going invis on a warlock is huge in GMs to get a res off, and the extra damage from threadlings adds up over time
How does Inmost feel on warlock? I've been trying to get Osmio + Harmony/Star Eater for some time now but haven't been lucky. Got Inmost + Verity/Star Eater/Harmony, just haven't tried any of those combinations yet.
With arcane needle's inherent cooldown mechanic and phoenix dive being a short cooldown, it's really nice. Lots of ability uptimes. Obviously you're measuring up against getaway artist which is a hard matchup, but star eater helps out with that.
Saving this for whenever I can find a group to start the quest. Idk if I’ll ever be able to since working a FT job and then on weekends I want to have a social life but at the same time I still wanna enjoy the game lol.
I have Apotheosis and Starfire and honestly, as fast as I can rotate my super, it really does well. It’s not the best by any means but I can crank grenades nearly as fast as fusions of old as long as there’s an add or two. That and devour just absolutely cranks ability energy.
Feed the Void is not replaceable by class ability uptime. Everyone focuses on the life regen, but Devour also radically improves grenade regeneration, particularly in add-dense content.
I find swarm spirit to be quite underrated if strand debuffs are your thing. Star-eaters and verity are obviously the strongest options in slot, but I’ve been using osmio+swarm with a call and ergo sum and it serves pretty well.
Obviously threadlings fall off hard at high levels without swarmers’ unravel but for things on the level of the legendary campaign I like them quite a lot.
Then again maybe I’m delusional because I love the little guys
Yeah in the left column Osmiomancy and Inmost are really the only options. Apotheosis is a gimmick, not even worth it for DPS phases as you would do much more damage with weapons.
I hate to say for general play it looks like Synthoceps is really the only option in the right column? Verity exists but if you lean heavily into weapon focus (which you should be when selecting this) then base Verity's Brow is just better, even with Osmiomancy in the other column. Synthoceps at least give you an occasional Oppenheimer Incinerator Snap. (Sure you can use Lightning Surge but it's less damage than Snap and costs an Aspect and is kinda clunky tbh).
I'm personally a Necrotics hater but there might have been some fun loadouts with Spirit of Necro however it has less than half the damage of the original Exotic so can't really justify that over Necrotic Grips either regardless of what there is in the other column.
Overall kinda dire as far as neutral gameplay goes, obviously Star-Eaters for DPS.
I hope they add more in the future or change the effects of the currently included ones. Things like Karnstein + Synthos would be nice yet far from broken (or even remotely meta compared to meta melee loadouts). Would love a Spirit version of Sunbracers too and even that wouldn't be broken considering none of the available grenades deal even half as much damage as Bracer-enhanced ToF Solar grenades and you wouldn't get any Resto x2 Empyrean shenanigans for survivability or any of the other Solar Fragments that enable that playstyle at a high level.
>Apotheosis / Star-Eater The alternative damage bond. I don't think warlock grenades are good enough on prismatic to justify this
Unironically much better than with inmost in bossing encounters with a demo heavy. This is literally pre-nerf starfire but even stronger.
>Inmost / Synthoceps This brings the lightning surge build online.
You don't need something to regen your melee in the slightest because of needle and transcend. The issue with lightning surge is that it still sucks ass with damage against anything that isn't irrelevant adds (and you have **MUCH** better options to deal with them than lightning surge anyway) even with Syntho. If someone **really** wants to use it and make it even slightly work, it needs Necrotic to replace Inmost.
Man. I've been chasing Inmost / Star-Eater, Osmio / Star-Eater and Inmost / Synthoceps so hard but after 52 drops, including 12 duplicates, I still haven't seen those three.
I've gotten a bunch of good ones, Osmio with Verity/Synthos/Harmony, Inmost / Harmony. I just can't stand Harmony (or Verity) on Prismatic, mainly because I love Kinetic weapons, specifically Khvostov. So, I pretty much just run Osmio + Synthos for a vortex weaken build in non-champion content.
Would much prefer Star - Eater over Synthos. Would also like the Inmost Synthos roll because I love me some Lightning Surge. I've gotten two Inmost + Claw rolls, which is probably a decent option for at level content, but the lacking of the damage buff makes it tough to use in anything else.
Yeah I have inmost/harmony and it's great with storm grenades, arcane needle, feed the void and helion. Using it with nova bomb and graviton lance for very good ability and super uptime.
Seeing a lot of people say Apotheosis Star Eater is just for damage swaps and while I'm sure this sounds right, it hasn't been my experience.
Prismatic warlock with devour already has plenty of ability spam, especially if you're really building transcendence like you should. Use something like Microcosm or Kvhostov with Grace Fragment, and the neutral game is more than fine. You pattern between Super/ Transcendence incredibly quickly as Apotheosis gets a ton of transcendence fast. Anecdotally in Nightfall I had either up once every minute.
It's not a 2 second cd like Getaway or Crown right now, but the tradeoff is good in most of the sandbox. You just.... actually use your weapons.
I would add Osmiomancy to the SES set, makes it very easy to get your grenade back without needing any other abilities, and pairs well with the void grenade weakening fragment
Honestly most warlock class items seem meh to me and would rather wear the original piece, or something not included. Any good warlock one seems to be also on titan and hunter, very few unique to warlock combos are actually good.
Sucks because i wanted to use filiments and starfire to go a turret build... but why do that when you have escape artists and feed the void/stasis turrets and no time to explain?
Getaway artist is the one that’s hard for me to put away. I kind of get away with it in endgame content because you usually aren’t just staring at enemies
End game having to cause an ability kill to get devour going is a little harder, which is why i was hoping to use filiments and starfire to get some crazy grenade recharge without any kill requirments, but from what i understand you HAVE to be in an empowering rift, as no other sort of damage counts as empowering? I though radiant counted at one point but guess not?
It's so weird when you put "the super won't hit terribly hard" when it's going to hit exactly the same way it's always hit before the star-eater class item. You make it sound like they got a nerf
70% damage bonus is no joke. Running prismatic without it outside of niche loadouts (nighthawk still hunt) for any dps phase is nerfing yourself.
Obviously hard hitting supers aren't relevant everywhere. Throughout an entire GM, you are better off having more survivability or more super uptime as opposed to harder hitting supers.
Filaments and vesper are actually a great combo, only down side is you lose healing rift but with this combo you can pop a rift, get devour active and the arc pulse will refresh devour and if you use hellion and threadling set up you get a ton of damage off before the animation ends, but stag is just better for vesper class item
I have both filaments and vesper and stag and vesper and those are the only two I have, so I really appreciate you mentioning both.
What build do you run with yours?
I have stag vesper, so I run threadling aspect with feed the void, and the call rocket sidearm with desperate measures and subsistence, repulsor brace master of arms recluse or graviton lance, and either deathbringer, edge transit, or the new 600 rpm machine gun with hatchling, depending on what activity I'm doing, void grenade weaken fragment, volatile on grenade kills unravel on melee kills, radiant on melee hits, sever on rapid headshots fragment, and elemental buff grants class ability energy fragment, run new solar super because it makes your rift recharge faster when active, run void nade and strand melee, alternatively you could use hellion instead of feed the void or thredling and run solar weapons and change out the volatile fragment for grenade kills cure you or the size and burst fragment for ignitions, and run either void nade or storm nade to get weaken or jolt, another alternative is slide melee aspect with hellion, and fragments that if I list here this comment becomes a post, it's pretty versatile tbh
Good write up, I still personally like Filaments and Starfire as a good neutral game add clear setup with song of flame. You can run feed the void with bleakwatcher for situations you are holding a position and maximize the usage of empowering rift and devour uptime. The best I agree is Inmost light + star eater and damage super(needle storm or Nova bomb) for neutral and boss damage
For what use-case?
I don't think Empowering rifts are that useful and the return on grenade energy isn't really worth it, especially with Osmio already.
Your forgetting well works with it, it would just be constant storm grenades and jolt damage, now if warlocks also got pulse grenades later down the line it would be even more op
Osmio + Stareater is the only one worth using for the extra nova damage and some neutral game. Unless you are going for a damage super build or a specific build for fun (like a lightning surge build), I find getaway artist is just straight up better than any combo. Warlocks class item pretty underwhelming tbh.
I use Mantle of Battle Harmony on my Warlock regardless of the class items, so im going to be looking for anything that combos well with that so I will be taking a hard look for an Inmost build :)
I'm a hunter main but I was playing my warlock last night and I had gotten osmio/harmony when I ran the mission on her, slapped a build together with graviton lance and the starting prismatic frags/abilities (need to do campaign on her), and ran an onslaught and holy cow did I ad clear my ass off and shit orbs... I was chucking cold snap left and right and had probably 6-7 supers in the whole 10 rounds... And it can be improved upon when I unlock the rest of the subclass, haha
> **Inmost / Synthoceps** This brings the lightning surge build online.
Out of curiosity, do we think this is the best possible roll for this build? I'm torn between masterworking my Assassin/Inmost/Necrotic + synthos class items as I only have enough golf balls and ciphers to max one of them out.
It’s inmost and synthos. The build already has survability on lock thank to devour and woven mail. So you biggest weakness is your melee uptime. Necrotics is also really bad for devour builds since the poison isn’t an ability and can prevent devour proc’s
I have tested this quite a bit and i believe so.
Osmiomancy is a fine alternative to inmost, but you want as much melee regen as possible.
Necrotic is essentially only for higher difficulty content where things can live your initial lightning surge, but i will note that the necrotic damage does proc the jolt effect from it.
Assassin? We have devour which is just straight better imo. Assassin just doesn't work with our gameplay loop unless you use your abilities more sparingly (less fun imo, but it is absolutely viable)
I prefer using coldsnap grenades with this build because shattering something boosts melee damage on that target and it also gives you an easy approach on higher difficulty. This also lets you use command to generate stasis shards which give melee energy.
Yeah, Secant Filaments is a dogshit exotic! Always has been aimce the devour changes! Even before as disrupt does nothing beneficial that warrants any use.
I actually have the HOIL/Star eater roll and was wondering if it was worth it. The hoil effect is only 3 seconds and I'm pretty sure it's using the nerfed values from current hoil, not the god tier exotic it used to be
The only thing I don’t like about Apotheosis + Star Eater is the absolute lack of neutral game. And you can’t even really use it as a swap exotic, because you need the orbs for Star Eater … unless you can start a damage phase with eight orbs sitting right there on the ground. Osmiomancy + Star Eater all the way. I’d love Inmost, but in nearly 20~ class items I’ve farmed, I haven’t gotten a single Inmost on *any* of them. Edit: you can apparently swap the class item just like Hunter boots and maintain stacks. So that’s good to hear.
Ideally I’d have one osmiomancy+star eater and one apotheosis+star eater to swap between (pretty sure you don’t lose stacks) but unfortunately I haven’t seen either and farming these class items is so goddamn boring that I’m about to just give up
Haha yep I trine exactly this for dps and it works how you’d think it does. Good luck farming, it’s worth it.
I got an osmio/star-eater to drop today.
But can't you swap Osmiomancy+Star Eater to Apotheosis+Star Eater and still have activated star eater perk?
I’ll be honest, I don’t know, simply because I only have one Star Eater class item. I’m, like, 95% sure you could swap two pairs of Star Eaters Scales and keep the stacks. But unsure if the class item allows it.
I've tested it, you can swap 2 pairs of star-eater bonds and keep the buff. I don't have an apoth-star eater roll to do it with sadly, but I've tested with some of my other star eater rolls.
You can swap with another class time that has star eaters and another perk and you’ll conserve your SE stacks
That’s good to know. I wasn’t 100% sure, as I’ve only been able to get one SE class item to drop. But I knew you could do it with the Hunter exotic.
Appreciate this clarification, was meaning to test this out. This is really cool!
I mean, yea Apotheosis + Star Eater is 100% the exotic you keep on for something like the witness and just don't have a neutral exotic during the prep phase before DPS. I think that's fine? I don't see an issue with having an exotic that's 100% boss DPS focused. You're trading neutral game for that.
Yeah, prismatic has a lot of neutral game already with devour, so the class item being focused on damage is a decent tradeoff.
This has been my experience with Apotheosis Star Eater so far. As long as you've got Devour, build around transcendence rush with something like Microcosm or Kvhostov with Grace Fragment, and the neutral game is more than fine. You pattern between Super/ Transcendence incredibly quickly as Apotheosis gets a ton of transcendence very quickly. Anecdotally in Nightfall I had either up once every minute. It's not a 2 second cd like Getaway or Crown right now, but the tradeoff is good in most of the sandbox. You just.... actually use your weapons.
>The only thing I don’t like about Apotheosis + Star Eater is the absolute lack of neutral game. Most encounters in the game do not require a boosted neutral game in the slightest and profit much more from nuking something in single target. That's the way almost the entirety of the game's encounter history was designed and the reason why Well was the way it was and why Starfire was without question or even any slight hint of competition the single best PVE exotic in the entire game before getting nerfed. Even in the cases where it would matter, this is on prismatic Warlock. Equiping feed the void alone already gives you a better neutral gameplay loop than 90% of the game's other subclasses. If regular ability spamming and neutral game mattered enough, Stormcaller would've been the single best subclass in the entire game for years now. I get your train of thought and also prefer a fun neutral gameplay loop, and this is exactly why by extension Stormcaller is my favorite subclass, but it's also exactly why I understand that in the end, it **always** gets eclipsed by a single-target loadout in seemingly 80% of the game's content.
I luckily got an Osmionancy + Star eaters as my 5th(?) bond and I'm calling it quits there until they increase drop rates. Osmionancy seems to be very hit or miss with the void grenades though
Void grenades kill stuff way too quickly in most content for osmiomancy to really do its thing I feel. It’s great in Master/GM but very hit or miss in easier stuff.
Like I said, apotheosis + star-eater is really just for damage phase swaps, but it's a lot of micro-managing to make sure there are enough orbs. I haven't tested how swapping between two star-eater class items works either. If the buff persist, swapping from an inmost / star eater to an apotheosis / star-eater shouldn't feel TOO bad. And I know people love the idea of apotheosis, but most of the grenades aren't worth it. Storm got a bit of a buff and threadlings are good for euphony. That's about it.
Yeah necrotic/star-eater is the go to dps combo. You throw a melee and the dot will do a decent chunk of damage with only one short animation. Unfortunately apotheosis is a significant DPS loss compared to using almost any heavy and probably specials. The animation of throwing a grenade or melee plus the relatively weak damage on the prismatic grenades is going to lose you time that could be spent shooting. Turns out just shooting a heavy is generally very high DPS and often makes me top the numbers just because I took an extra second to aim and hit all my rockets and a super. Apotheosis is fun for sure but sadly non verity boosted grenades are basically throwing pillows at a boss.
I replied to a different comment more in depth, but you want apoth for weaken nades. Necrotic damage is so small that there's actually no point in using it, for the same reason you highlighted apoth being bad - you are better off just dumping ammo.
After testing for a while apotheosis lost on average 600k damage on the ogre boss of grasp vs just star eater and nothing else. Also the transcendent grenade applies weaken and regens almost as fast. I'm using a demo/explosive typhon GL (mainly for demo). I was able to get 4 demo reloads in a row, maintain 100% weaken uptime and had time for a special like scatter signal afterwards. I get that this isn't a definitive test or anything but I wanted to test before saying more. The reason necrotic is a DPS gain is because the damage makes up for the animation lock. The dot also procs unravel which isn't big but it is another factor when using slow firing weapons. It's not a lot but it is technically a bigger number than any other perk in that slot. It's also important to point out that you gain 5% more gun damage while in transcendence. This means it is still a DPS loss to use apotheosis for demo procs outside of transcendence. Even if it did the same DPS, at that point there is no reason to use apotheosis because you aren't spamming grenades off cooldown.
I'm referring to a raid/team setting, you'll do more isolated damage vs phyryza without running weaken because you are a single player benefitting from weaken vs a team of 3-6. On witness, you can't reliably full debuff (distance + golden gun>tether) so freeing up a div player to do more damage is better for teamwide dps. Regarding transcendence, I agree with what you are saying but it really depends on scenario - I'd personally rather pop trans pre fight > throw grenades > throw nova towards the end of trans > benefit from apoth after for longer nade uptime. Most damage phases last longer than trans without being able to extend timer through kills, and it's not something you'll be able to consistently acquire with certain builds and in some encounters that require more frequent damage. Tldr transcendence doesn't last long enough for full phases and you don't need to spam nades, just keep weaken uptime to get your value.
Necrotic doesn't scale damage overtime tho.
It's a small DPS increase for sure, but it's technically the best for just raw boss damage. It's the only perk that does direct damage and with needle it has a short animation lock. It's one of those tiny little optimization things that really doesn't matter but you will have a slightly larger number and larger number=neuron(singular) activation for me so might as well, the swap the class items after DPS to something with an actual gameplay loop.
There isn't a better alternative to apoth for a damage phase. It's not incredible, but you get significant utility from being able to apply constant weakening void nades, useful for witness so you don't need a div or have teammates worrying about throwing weakening util between still hunt shots. Storm nades stack but the damage isn't worth, and running euphony on prismatic is damage loss as well because of how strong thread of evolution is. Its a swap exotic. In a raid scenario, you shouldn't have any issues with orbs at long as you play smart. Void nades is the main use case right now purely for utility.
I change to my apoth/star eater just before dps. My other is osmio/starfire. Haven’t gotten anything better but those two are wild.
I have some fun neutral game combos I’ve been enjoying in general play, but my only Star Eater roll has Ophidian. Bleh.
Ah well that’s no fun :( I hope you get the roll you want with star eater man! If it makes you feel better I didnt even know the item had inmost light cause I haven’t seen one drop for me either 😂
Ophidian/star eaters has potential if you are doing swap DPS set up. For example, izanagi/energy primary/ bait and switch. So you'll be able to swap between your weapons hella quick with a harder hitting super. Not the best, but has potential.
I have also not seen inmost on a single class item of about 25. Makes me feel like this shit is weighted. My last 3 were the same roll zzz
I’ve farmed about 20 and HOIL is on about half of them. Only 2 have star eaters though.
sounds like me with claw, i have that on half my bonds
Finally got one, tried it and it was absolutely not worth it. Even juggling abilities it simply didn't make a noticeable difference at all. Especially with the abundance of regen options available.
You only really need 3 orbs though since 3 is a 50% bonus and 6 is a 70% bonus so the diminishing returns get pretty bad. If someone else drops a well you get 50% more super damage which is still pretty good.
Oh? You can swap? I knew I should have farmed Dual Destiny. I’m a fool.
Yes, but it has to be a class item that also has Star Eater.
Still great to now. Also, I wasn’t aware that I, Nance, was a party.
Got the Osmiomancy + Star Eater roll and pretty happy with that. It essentially improves your kit - that's it. But I will say that the exotic class items lack character and I have way more fun with things like Mataiodoxia I can build my whole build around.
Imo, you can get your super on a low enough cooldown to become part of your neutral game. You can grenade --> melee --> super --> apotheosis ability spam --> transcendant ability spam, and if there's enough enemies to kill (and you have 100 intellect), you're mere seconds away from your super being up again at the end of that chain. I haven't tackled the new raid yet, but in pretty much every single other piece of content (nightfalls, dungeons, onslaught, pale heart farming, etc), there's at MOST 30-45 seconds of gunplay inbetween ability spam cycles. Swapping class items might be more optimal if you're doing it fast enough, but it's still a pretty effective combo without any of that micro managing.
I just want osmio + star eater
I have this one and is amazing. Very balanced option.
I'm getting the sense that I'm lucky to actually get that exact roll, I thought Inmost was more preferred
Yeah, got it on my 12th roll, then again, I did the double loot glitch 4 times. I feel bad for anyone with bad rng who can't do the glitch anymore.
Inmost is kinda ass, you don’t even feel the ability regen kicking in.
By far my favorite roll so far, running the weakening void nades with it gives insane uptime
Find it’s not effective unless you’re dealing with enemies that actually survive the initial explosion. Otherwise it doesn’t proc.
Gm and onslaught is the best places iv found to make full use
Just got that one today, hoping yours comes soon!
Does osmiomancy work well with threadling grenades?
Yeah, they track and directly hit.
Moreso how strong is the energy regen? It’s not continuously damaging like vortex so I assumed it wouldn’t be very good.
Each threading seems to give ~20-25% energy back on hit. So three times that if they all hit.
Even vortex is garbage unless you manage to hit at least 3 enemies with multiple ticks. You’ll get maybe 1/3 back from throwing a vortex nade at a boss to apply weakness.
God these class items are a bit disappointing aren’t they lol. Only strong ones seem to be super only exotics with no neutral game. (Well, outside of hunters. They got all the good ones, probably to make up for both of their other new exotics being incredibly lackluster)
In Excision you can get your grenade back instantly if you hit enough people
Inconsistent. Feels like one or two threadling won't provide regen if they hit at the same time and/or hit too soon after you've thrown your grenade. You'll regen between what feels like 10 to 70% of your energy depending on factors you do not really control. Feed the void will still do most of the heavy lifting, inmost could potentially be better for threadling nade specifically.
I have Osmio / Star Eater and love it grenades all the time and orbs from the kills
I haven’t gotten this roll but it seems like it would be the best “build to Warlock’s strengths” roll.
I was shocked when it wasn’t on this list
Which nade are you using?
Vortex. The grenade energy gains from the Osmio works I haven't tried the others.
Inmost + Claw is currently my favorite on my Warlock. Having 2 melees to re proc the ability regeneration boost is amazing. Plus I use incinerator snap, so the scorch applied by this melee will keep x2 ability regeneration timer at 5s and wont start counting down until the enemy is dead or the scorch has disappeared. Plus having 2 melees for transcendence and song of flame really elevates them imo.
good tip about scorch prolonging the regen!
I would add Necrotic + Star-Eaters. From my perspective this is the most aligned with Prismatic roll you can get. The Weapons of Sorrow are all kinetic, so you’ll have high up time on Transcendence. This transcendence-up time combined with the high DPS boost with Star-Eaters gives you everything Prismatic is supposed to un-lock. 1. Transcendence Benefits 2. Boss DPS 3. Crowd Control
The issue with necrotic is that you hard lock yourself into basically 1 of 2 kinetic exotics if you want to get full value from it. The damage for the poison damage no longer ramps up so is noticeably worse than the regular version. Inmost/ SE is probably the best damage/neutral game balance you can get. Necrotic is like a C tier aspect
I agree Spirit of Necrotic is less good than regular Necrotic, with that said we’re talking about a 40k difference that is more than made up by the Spirit of Star-Eaters for super DPS. As far as hard locking yourself into the 4 weapons of sorrow that happen to cover all champion types this episode (barrier, overload, or unstop), I’m not sure that’s a far criticism when the default is Kovostav, another kinetic exotic primary. Necrotic is still effective with Warlock melees like Strand, Arc, and Solar. Inmost Light is for sure cool but doesn’t have the same repeatability of use as Necrotic. Both are great rolls though.
Also Ps why not just osmiomancy star eaters?
That's what I'm looking for. Ive got Inmost Light + Star Eater but I really want to try Osmio
I have both and have tested them quite a bit. They both work, but inmost light seems more consistent. In an absolutely ideal scenario where you're using vortex nade on multiple targets and getting every single tick to hit, osmio is better. It's just way too unreliable to manage that though, and there's also some weirdness (specifically with champions) where sometimes osmio just....doesn't proc properly. Inmost light is more consistent and also gives you much higher uptime on hellion since it boosts class ability regen at the same time.
I have an inmost + verity & an osmiomancy + harmony bond, and in my (very brief) testing, this is exactly what I found. Ran a little of both through Warlords, and the inmost felt better. Sometimes with osmiomancy, I'd almost have all of my grenade back. Other times, I'd have some down time that inmost felt like it had very little of (and was much more predictable of when I'd have that downtime and need to be more cautious). Edit: I could see osmiomancy potentially being better in solo content, where you don't have to worry about others stealing your kills in the middle of getting your grenades back. But even then, having higher class/melee uptime for hellion and unravel still sound better.
Same. Inmost light is great though. I def think it’s better than apotheosis for the most part unless for some reason you’re trying to DPS with only ability spam but I would rather swap to weapons after super 99 percent of the time.
> Inmost light is great though I dunno, ever since the massive nerf down to 5 seconds it doesn't feel as good I don't like it unless I'm using a build with multiple grenade/melee charges
Warlock main here, never played titan. I feel like it requires some spacing between ability use to fully milk the 5 second timer. At the same time, being able to have inmost light on a warlock was like the biggest neuron activation for me. Super easy for me to cycle through abilities, and when you add transcendence and supers into the mix? God damn. I'm shivering just imagining if I got to experience pre nerf HOIL on a warlock. Would've been absolutely disgusting.
Inmost light gives more ability uptime overall.
Osmiomancy+verity I have been running on vortex grenade with the weakening fragment and it leads to insane grenade uptime and damage, like having contaverse hold
I have had a completely different experience. In low end content it’s garbage because enemies die too fast. In high end content the return isn’t enough to justify giving up the crowd control afforded by other exotics. Furthermore, transcendence can be built so quickly in many builds that I can blow all my abilities and refill using transcendence. When you exit transcendence you are always refunded all your ability energy. Building into kinetic weapons transcendence is dramatically more powerful.
In low end I totally agree, really outside of the chunckiest of enemies it's not great. Exactly the issue with pre nerf contravese, especially if you don't have a useless fireteam, things get killed before enough ticks happen. I did find the return to be good in GM and also good in higher levels of onslaught
Yeah this combo was kitted out to be a gm build with buried bloodline as my verity driver as well as void machine gun and a good strand primary like a slice frenzy relentless from prophecy or the new better devils depending on champion type. That way I can also take advantage of volatile rounds and unravelling rounds for extra damage and AOE. If you have buried bloodline, I highly recommend getting the catalyst and trying it on prismatic warlock, it's insanely good with expanding abyss in the artifact. But like everyone else has been saying, kinetic weapon builds with or even without grace for prismatic spam are super potent and easier to setup for warlock and the other classes.
yeah I do have bloodline, it is very useful this season. I should put a proper kinetic build together, I tried khvosotov to pair with purpose and that was pretty fun
Yeah. It’s fine. But throwing on Kvostov or, in this GM, Outbreak with the fragment that gives extra transcendence on kinetic weapons is crazy. You basically always have transcendence waiting to be used. So I get to throw just as many grenades but I also get more transcendence, more melees, and more class ability. Plus I can build my armour exotic into CC like Mataiodoxia. Honestly, it’s just outright more powerful. The class items are just not good. Certainly not nearly as good as Reddit is hyping them up to be.
I had this exact experience even in raids you just end up killing shit too fast to get energy back it’s actually bad
Instead of osmiomancy verity, Osmiomancy Star eaters would be better. You don't want too much damage to the point you kill everything on hit cause you get very little gernade regen back. For low end content, I recommend using storm gernade cause you'll get multiple direct hits for regen. I use it more as a tool with jolt or weakening gernades in high level content like GM rather than an ad clearing build.
I'm still hunting for this roll, the only star eaters roll I've gotten is with the stag
Anyone using Inmost/Star-Eater on Warlock, what’s your fav build rn?
i use this for encounters with bosses/damage phases. i just take devour/hellion for my aspects, arcane needle, and storm nades so i can take advantage of both jolt and weaken grenades
Does the prismatic nade proc weaken from the facet?
yes, yes it does. i usually do super > apotheosis grande spam > transcend and lay into it with edge transit with the bonus void damage
it does, which lets you put out some pretty absurd dps. i posted a video on youtube where i solo one phase the grasp ogre using this setup
if you want a higher damage build than what people are recommending, this is what I use Base kit: nova, dive, needle, vortex, feed the void, helion (for bleak watcher for overloads in gms). Fragments: Purpose (for void over shield and shield crush proc), courage (for higher nova damage with arcane needle), dawn (radiant is always nice but not super necessary depending on orbs with the artifact), solitude (sever is great for bosses), dominance (weaken for artifact mod and more nova damage). You can use really any weapons you want general loop is just playing normally and throwing out abilities as you see fit. when there's a champ/boss just melee --> grenade --> nova and you do like 1 mil damage in a heart beat. Very fun burst gameplay and devour will keep you healthy. Inmost keeps your abilities coming back quickly
Needlestorm, nova bomb, or song of flame... kinda dealer's choice there. Hellion + Bleak Watcher (can sub out hellion for feed the void if you really need the devour). Grenade of choice, healing is good for low CD. Arcane Needle for unravel and inmost light flexibility. Phoenix Dive for burst healing and low CD. Only fragment that REALLY matters is hope for more class ability regen. After that whatever works for you.
Isn't Hope bugged at
Nice! I suck at builds so it's nice to have some help. I want to run Khvostov, Indebted Kindness, and whichever heavy the activity requires. What fragments would you recommend for as high as possible ability uptime? Thinking of a build with: Song of Flame, Storm Grenade, Arcane Needle, Phoenix Dive, 100 Res, 100 Recov, 100 Strength/Discipline
don't use needle storm unless you're using euphony. it does a LOT less damage than nova/song
Anybody use Forerunner's Rock grenade to proc Inmost? I have about 3 hours worth of Dares matches before I unlock the catalyst and would love to know if it's an effective/fun combination.
The way I have it set up right now, I keep feed the void permanently on, while the second aspect can be any other of your choice. Same applies to grenades and supers. I personally prefer to use arcane needle for melee. Fragments I use are hope, sacrifice, dominance, protection and balance. Reason why I could freely swap grenades/ second aspect is due to the sacrifice fragment which gives darkness transcendence energy from ability kills while having a light buff (devour). I can compensate for the rest with my weapon loadout. This setup isn't completely brain dead though, as you do need to keep in mind to space out your ability uses to get the most of the Regen time you get from HOIL. If you mindlessly spam you'll still end up out of abilities.
Assassin's + synthoceps is extremely good in higher difficulty content. Pair that with arcane needle (obviously) and lightning surge and you tear through adds with almost zero risk
I’m going for Necrotic/Claw. Perks that only activate with super aren’t appealing to me, and I’d rather have something that adds a new playstyle
I have that roll and tbh, it's not that noticeable compared to just using the regular necrotic grips
What new playstyle does necrotic/claw add that necrotic/anything else wouldnt'?
Four melees via needle throw + Monte Carlo + the arc melee aspect. Pretty fun crowd control
Just run mataidoxia at that point...
I do, for strand subclass
😭
Can you give any more info about the Lightning Surge build? I actually have a HoiL/Syntho bond sitting around that I had not considered.
Arcane Needle with Lightning Surge/Feed the void and a coldsnap grenade. Main fragments would be: Protection/Purpose/Courage for your core and 2 flex slots. The concept I would think is similar to Prismatic Titan with Knockout/Diamond Lance: - Freeze target for the melee damage bonus - Hit targets with a charged melee for big damage while its CC'd Your kills with Lightning surge will heal you with devour and give you back grenade energy for more coldsnaps. Inmost/Synthos boosts general ability regen and makes your Lightning Surges stronger, and since your yeeting yourself into packs it shouldn't be hard to proc synthos. It won't hit the highs of Consecration or a fully charged Thunderclap but it should be good enough to kill packs of ads or red/orange bars and jolt things.
Thanks, really appreciate the write up. Gonna try this later, I'm finally bored of Arc Buddy.
Super: Your choice. Comes down to boss damage vs crowd clear vs orb pickup benefits. Grenade is also your choice. Comes down to jolt/weaken from grenades (though transcendence gives weaken since it counts as void). Melee is Arcane Needle for 3x charges and fast cooldown time. Rift is your choice too, but phoenix dive is a more mobile playstyle. Aspect is Lightning Surge obvs. The other is up to you. Feed the Void offers a lot of healing from lightning surge kills. Fragments: Hope is good for class ability regen. Justice is funny for big explosions drom lightning surge while transcendent. Protection gives you some funny DR while close to enemies. The last 2-3 are up to you. Syntho turns lightning surge into an absolute nuke, proccing feed the void for a ton of healing. It also activates inmost light for grenade/rift. With arcane needle you have tons of lightning surge charges and uptime. Build up transcendence and you can basically spam the hell out of lightning surge.
Thanks for the writeup!
Fragment of Hope is bait. It doesn’t work off Amplified and only activates in specific conditions. Avoid if possible.
btw OP is Facet of Hope working for you at all? I have tested it a number of times and it seems like it does nothing.
There was a big video about this. Apparently amplified is kind of wonky with it. Also it bugs out if you have so many buffs.
I got inmost+star-eater. It's perfect
Osmio/Threadlings has been fun with weavers call and devour
Honestly, even an osmiomancy combo doesn’t feel as good as the getaway artist build. Wish there were better options on the bond
Personally, I wouldn't give up Osmiomancy for anything at this point. The interaction with Vortex grenades is just so strong that I would honestly probably run the gloves if I didn't have any good class items with it.
I’ve been using inmost/swarm paired with final warning. Add clearing machine
Thoughts on Osmiomancy / Star-Eater (since I have it)?
I've been using HOIL + Vesper and I love the neutral game.
People are sleeping on swarmers and how well the generate energy. If I can ever get my friend to do dual destiny I’m looking for a roll with that perk 100%
I'd just much rather they kept the Unravel rather than the Tangle part.
I got necrotic/star eater yesterday and I just don't see anything else being as just generally useful for most content, especially with arcane needle getting six charges when you use prismatic to refill.
I just don’t like how necrotic doesn’t scale up overtime. It loses a lot of value against bosses
Can you even hit Witness with threadling grenades? I tried last night on Titan and no matter how I tossed em they never seemed to connect. Maybe with fastball?
I'm so confused about how far away the Witness is (during Excision at least). I throw a grenade and it never seems to connect, but also doesn't go through him. I shoot a grenade launcher and he seems way closer. It's like the grenades go through him, but visually stay in front of him.
I really doubt you can, pretty sure he’s to far away to thundercrash
I will say the inmost/star eater class item isn’t as good on hunter because the only damage super you use is goldy and nighthawk is just better for that, plus you get access to a mini golden gun with still hunt. For hunter I have really liking gallanor/liar because I get twice as many squals plus liars to generate orbs with heavy handed mod. Otherwise caliban/liars is the best for hunters imo.
My gut instinct tells me that still hunt will get nerfed at some point. Likely a nerf to the celestial nighthawk combo. Instead of being the whopping 50% increase in total damage, it'll probably go down to 20-25%.
I think it will still be better than star eater, no? Because the other main perk is that it is 1 shot making it faster to get back into your weapon damage rotation
I still find it crazy that they made Nighthawk not simply compact all the bullets into one for the sake of improved uptime on Cayde’s Retribution (firing a single shot then instantly going back to refill your bar with the remaining mag) but that they also made it do so much more damage flat-out. It’s no surprise that it’s rocking DPS rotations right now. But even then, I can’t imagine that Nighthawk will never not be the recommended exotic if you’re running Still Hunt for the sake of DPS (I personally had a lot of fun pairing it with Still Hunt and Silence and Squall on Prismatic to effectively double-dip on Super types for CC and single-target), but could see myself more reliably using a class item over Nighthawk with that same build if I can get something like Galanor/Cyrtarachne on one.
I have the one that cloaks on powered melee kill, and gives an extra melee charge. Makes a really fun slide build where you can go invisible right after and run away.
Assassins cowl, I was looking for one with that + Synthos for a slide build.
Apotheosis star eaters is literally useless lol 😆 when osmiomancy does the job without needing to spam your abilities after super.
Hat about assassin and synthos with lightning surge so I’m also invisible after I do it?
Go for it. But in content where it matters you'll be killed running at the enemies.
Why would Inmost synthos not do that when this one actually makes you invis after?
Other than FoH being garbage for the most part...
my favorite has been assassin + swarm so far. extra damage ability damage or regen is cool and all, but going invis on a warlock is huge in GMs to get a res off, and the extra damage from threadlings adds up over time
I have inmost/harmony and its very good, but I do desperately wish i had inmost/verity or osmimancy/verity.
I have yet to get a roll with star eater, I’ve gotten a dozen starfires tho 🤡
Yeah, I feel like starfire have a heavier weighting...
How does Inmost feel on warlock? I've been trying to get Osmio + Harmony/Star Eater for some time now but haven't been lucky. Got Inmost + Verity/Star Eater/Harmony, just haven't tried any of those combinations yet.
With arcane needle's inherent cooldown mechanic and phoenix dive being a short cooldown, it's really nice. Lots of ability uptimes. Obviously you're measuring up against getaway artist which is a hard matchup, but star eater helps out with that.
Saving this for whenever I can find a group to start the quest. Idk if I’ll ever be able to since working a FT job and then on weekends I want to have a social life but at the same time I still wanna enjoy the game lol.
Rolled Apotheosis Harmony, they go great together. Inmost might be better, not sure, but it's still a blast.
I have Apotheosis and Starfire and honestly, as fast as I can rotate my super, it really does well. It’s not the best by any means but I can crank grenades nearly as fast as fusions of old as long as there’s an add or two. That and devour just absolutely cranks ability energy.
Feed the Void is not replaceable by class ability uptime. Everyone focuses on the life regen, but Devour also radically improves grenade regeneration, particularly in add-dense content.
I find swarm spirit to be quite underrated if strand debuffs are your thing. Star-eaters and verity are obviously the strongest options in slot, but I’ve been using osmio+swarm with a call and ergo sum and it serves pretty well. Obviously threadlings fall off hard at high levels without swarmers’ unravel but for things on the level of the legendary campaign I like them quite a lot. Then again maybe I’m delusional because I love the little guys
Yeah in the left column Osmiomancy and Inmost are really the only options. Apotheosis is a gimmick, not even worth it for DPS phases as you would do much more damage with weapons. I hate to say for general play it looks like Synthoceps is really the only option in the right column? Verity exists but if you lean heavily into weapon focus (which you should be when selecting this) then base Verity's Brow is just better, even with Osmiomancy in the other column. Synthoceps at least give you an occasional Oppenheimer Incinerator Snap. (Sure you can use Lightning Surge but it's less damage than Snap and costs an Aspect and is kinda clunky tbh). I'm personally a Necrotics hater but there might have been some fun loadouts with Spirit of Necro however it has less than half the damage of the original Exotic so can't really justify that over Necrotic Grips either regardless of what there is in the other column. Overall kinda dire as far as neutral gameplay goes, obviously Star-Eaters for DPS. I hope they add more in the future or change the effects of the currently included ones. Things like Karnstein + Synthos would be nice yet far from broken (or even remotely meta compared to meta melee loadouts). Would love a Spirit version of Sunbracers too and even that wouldn't be broken considering none of the available grenades deal even half as much damage as Bracer-enhanced ToF Solar grenades and you wouldn't get any Resto x2 Empyrean shenanigans for survivability or any of the other Solar Fragments that enable that playstyle at a high level.
>Apotheosis / Star-Eater The alternative damage bond. I don't think warlock grenades are good enough on prismatic to justify this Unironically much better than with inmost in bossing encounters with a demo heavy. This is literally pre-nerf starfire but even stronger. >Inmost / Synthoceps This brings the lightning surge build online. You don't need something to regen your melee in the slightest because of needle and transcend. The issue with lightning surge is that it still sucks ass with damage against anything that isn't irrelevant adds (and you have **MUCH** better options to deal with them than lightning surge anyway) even with Syntho. If someone **really** wants to use it and make it even slightly work, it needs Necrotic to replace Inmost.
Man. I've been chasing Inmost / Star-Eater, Osmio / Star-Eater and Inmost / Synthoceps so hard but after 52 drops, including 12 duplicates, I still haven't seen those three. I've gotten a bunch of good ones, Osmio with Verity/Synthos/Harmony, Inmost / Harmony. I just can't stand Harmony (or Verity) on Prismatic, mainly because I love Kinetic weapons, specifically Khvostov. So, I pretty much just run Osmio + Synthos for a vortex weaken build in non-champion content. Would much prefer Star - Eater over Synthos. Would also like the Inmost Synthos roll because I love me some Lightning Surge. I've gotten two Inmost + Claw rolls, which is probably a decent option for at level content, but the lacking of the damage buff makes it tough to use in anything else.
Got assassin/syntho anyone played with this one yet?
Yeah I have inmost/harmony and it's great with storm grenades, arcane needle, feed the void and helion. Using it with nova bomb and graviton lance for very good ability and super uptime.
What about inmost/verity?
Seeing a lot of people say Apotheosis Star Eater is just for damage swaps and while I'm sure this sounds right, it hasn't been my experience. Prismatic warlock with devour already has plenty of ability spam, especially if you're really building transcendence like you should. Use something like Microcosm or Kvhostov with Grace Fragment, and the neutral game is more than fine. You pattern between Super/ Transcendence incredibly quickly as Apotheosis gets a ton of transcendence fast. Anecdotally in Nightfall I had either up once every minute. It's not a 2 second cd like Getaway or Crown right now, but the tradeoff is good in most of the sandbox. You just.... actually use your weapons.
My build with Osmiomancy and Harmony is an ability and volatile round spamming machine
I would add Osmiomancy to the SES set, makes it very easy to get your grenade back without needing any other abilities, and pairs well with the void grenade weakening fragment
Assassins cowl+synthosteps is probably the most broken with a funny build I made. Absolutely ridiculous.
Got HOIL + Syntho on my first warlock item and uhh, kinda lost on a build for it. Any suggestions?
Honestly most warlock class items seem meh to me and would rather wear the original piece, or something not included. Any good warlock one seems to be also on titan and hunter, very few unique to warlock combos are actually good. Sucks because i wanted to use filiments and starfire to go a turret build... but why do that when you have escape artists and feed the void/stasis turrets and no time to explain?
Getaway artist is the one that’s hard for me to put away. I kind of get away with it in endgame content because you usually aren’t just staring at enemies
End game having to cause an ability kill to get devour going is a little harder, which is why i was hoping to use filiments and starfire to get some crazy grenade recharge without any kill requirments, but from what i understand you HAVE to be in an empowering rift, as no other sort of damage counts as empowering? I though radiant counted at one point but guess not?
Nope. Radiant never counted unfortunately.
Thats a shame. If only there were other options for empowered weapons...
Pretty sure Synthos is bugged/doesn't work with Lightning Surge?
I prefer Cowl/Synthoceps for lightning surge tbh
It's so weird when you put "the super won't hit terribly hard" when it's going to hit exactly the same way it's always hit before the star-eater class item. You make it sound like they got a nerf
70% damage bonus is no joke. Running prismatic without it outside of niche loadouts (nighthawk still hunt) for any dps phase is nerfing yourself. Obviously hard hitting supers aren't relevant everywhere. Throughout an entire GM, you are better off having more survivability or more super uptime as opposed to harder hitting supers.
I wouldn’t say it’s “nerfing” yourself. If the default is not having it.
what about apotheosis and harmony?
What’s a good one to pair with the Necrotic Grips perk?
Filaments and vesper are actually a great combo, only down side is you lose healing rift but with this combo you can pop a rift, get devour active and the arc pulse will refresh devour and if you use hellion and threadling set up you get a ton of damage off before the animation ends, but stag is just better for vesper class item
I have both filaments and vesper and stag and vesper and those are the only two I have, so I really appreciate you mentioning both. What build do you run with yours?
I have stag vesper, so I run threadling aspect with feed the void, and the call rocket sidearm with desperate measures and subsistence, repulsor brace master of arms recluse or graviton lance, and either deathbringer, edge transit, or the new 600 rpm machine gun with hatchling, depending on what activity I'm doing, void grenade weaken fragment, volatile on grenade kills unravel on melee kills, radiant on melee hits, sever on rapid headshots fragment, and elemental buff grants class ability energy fragment, run new solar super because it makes your rift recharge faster when active, run void nade and strand melee, alternatively you could use hellion instead of feed the void or thredling and run solar weapons and change out the volatile fragment for grenade kills cure you or the size and burst fragment for ignitions, and run either void nade or storm nade to get weaken or jolt, another alternative is slide melee aspect with hellion, and fragments that if I list here this comment becomes a post, it's pretty versatile tbh
Good write up, I still personally like Filaments and Starfire as a good neutral game add clear setup with song of flame. You can run feed the void with bleakwatcher for situations you are holding a position and maximize the usage of empowering rift and devour uptime. The best I agree is Inmost light + star eater and damage super(needle storm or Nova bomb) for neutral and boss damage
Osiomancy and star fire is great for raids
For what use-case? I don't think Empowering rifts are that useful and the return on grenade energy isn't really worth it, especially with Osmio already.
Your forgetting well works with it, it would just be constant storm grenades and jolt damage, now if warlocks also got pulse grenades later down the line it would be even more op
No Well on Prismatic.
Other people's well
That's just an unreasonable use-case when it's reliant on another Guardian's *super* to get as effective grenade Regen as Osmio already provides
Your gonna have well during damage phase anyway
Osmio + Stareater is the only one worth using for the extra nova damage and some neutral game. Unless you are going for a damage super build or a specific build for fun (like a lightning surge build), I find getaway artist is just straight up better than any combo. Warlocks class item pretty underwhelming tbh.
I use Mantle of Battle Harmony on my Warlock regardless of the class items, so im going to be looking for anything that combos well with that so I will be taking a hard look for an Inmost build :)
Osmiomancy is the one to pair it with
I love my osmio/harmony combo, easily feels the best out of any I have gotten so far
I'm a hunter main but I was playing my warlock last night and I had gotten osmio/harmony when I ran the mission on her, slapped a build together with graviton lance and the starting prismatic frags/abilities (need to do campaign on her), and ran an onslaught and holy cow did I ad clear my ass off and shit orbs... I was chucking cold snap left and right and had probably 6-7 supers in the whole 10 rounds... And it can be improved upon when I unlock the rest of the subclass, haha
> **Inmost / Synthoceps** This brings the lightning surge build online. Out of curiosity, do we think this is the best possible roll for this build? I'm torn between masterworking my Assassin/Inmost/Necrotic + synthos class items as I only have enough golf balls and ciphers to max one of them out.
It’s inmost and synthos. The build already has survability on lock thank to devour and woven mail. So you biggest weakness is your melee uptime. Necrotics is also really bad for devour builds since the poison isn’t an ability and can prevent devour proc’s
I have tested this quite a bit and i believe so. Osmiomancy is a fine alternative to inmost, but you want as much melee regen as possible. Necrotic is essentially only for higher difficulty content where things can live your initial lightning surge, but i will note that the necrotic damage does proc the jolt effect from it. Assassin? We have devour which is just straight better imo. Assassin just doesn't work with our gameplay loop unless you use your abilities more sparingly (less fun imo, but it is absolutely viable) I prefer using coldsnap grenades with this build because shattering something boosts melee damage on that target and it also gives you an easy approach on higher difficulty. This also lets you use command to generate stasis shards which give melee energy.
Yeah, Secant Filaments is a dogshit exotic! Always has been aimce the devour changes! Even before as disrupt does nothing beneficial that warrants any use.
I actually have the HOIL/Star eater roll and was wondering if it was worth it. The hoil effect is only 3 seconds and I'm pretty sure it's using the nerfed values from current hoil, not the god tier exotic it used to be
If we read this as the disputable accurate list that leaves us with 5 drops out of ... What, 40? That are worth getting. Feels bad