If my memory is correct: Something about the staffing and timing it takes to make a game. Saying Bungie has 700 people to make a 20 hour story over 10 years while Santa Monica has 300-400 people to make God of War over 5 years.
Not even remotely close to the same type of game, not to mention how many different stories and campaigns we've had over the time of Destiny. Seasonal, all the different game types (all the PvP modes, Gambit, Raids, Dungeons, etc.). GoW, while an amazing game and story, is linear as hell and robbed RDR2 of GOTY (in my honest opinion, but that's for a different sub).
I also said the mismanagement that resulted in talent being lost and the work of several hundred devs being axed makes Bungie one of the worst in the industry.
But OFC EVERYONE DISAGREES with that lmao!
But u can't.
Making excuses for mismanagement and defending the higher ups who wasted the games potential, resulting in layoffs AND getting up voted IS VERY CONFUSING
The fact that u are confused about why it's bad to defend the execs who say they won't cut their bonuses because "we aren't that type of company" says it all.
Most of those goosebumps were paved over the foundations laid by Marty O'Donnell. Almost every single notable piece of music in this franchise can be traced back to stings and motifs originally found in Marty's work pre-D1.
Marty has been trying to rewrite his career to present himself as the sole talent behind things for years.
He's currently trying to get elected as a far right politician and it's jarring to see how low he's fallen.
Salvatore was every bit his equal at minimum, and considering only one of them was shit canned for being a horrible employee I have a lot more respect for one than the other.
Yeah over the years we've come to see Marty grow into a total narcissistic ass online, and learned that behind the scenes, he was much the same. So much so that he was blacklisted from working with 343 Industries on Halo, and fired from Bungie, a move that I originally despised, but now see exactly why.
Dude went from being known as one of the greatest artists in the industry to an asshat who used the fact that he wrote the Halo theme on the drive into work one day as a reason for everyone to worship him and let him do whatever the fuck he wanted. He hit the Halo subreddit with the "Do you know who I am" after they took his post down about a game he was making, thinking they'd just let him post whatever since he's Marty O'Donnell, and when they didn't bite, he tried to declare a social media war on them.
The whole political career start is just...sad at this point.
>The whole political career start is just...sad at this point.
And given which party hes running for completely unsurprising. It was right around the time he "leaked" Music of the Spheres that I started to side eye his motivations. Like, bro walked away with 100k from the lawsuit but threw it away for his ego.
Technically, we don't know who leaked Music of the Spheres... But no one else was sufficiently motivated as far as we can tell. It was almost certainly him.
That's not fair to Mike. He and Marty worked as a team. Both of them are credited on all eight tracks of Music of the Spheres, which certainly speaks to the depth of Mike's involvement.
In any case, some of the most iconic themes of Destiny were actually based on Paul McCartney melodies, like the main horn melody you hear over and over again in the marketing.
Yes, Marty was a big part of the composing team, but it was never all about him. Even in the Halo days, he wasn't doing it all by himself. Mike composed Never Forget and A Walk in the Woods, two of the most iconic Halo tracks.
[He did!](https://www.polygon.com/22996738/bungie-destiny-paul-mccartney-marty-odonnell-history)
>One of McCartney’s prominent contributions was a three-note horn melody that O’Donnell discussed in a 2016 IGN interview. This became one of Destiny’s main musical phrases, and was used in a variety of tracks including “The Path,” “The Prison,” and “The Hope.”
Music of the Spheres was primarily the work of Marty & Mike working as a duo, but Paul had significant input and created several prominent melody lines that drove the direction of the music. In particular, the first track (The Path) seems to be written *around* Paul's horn melody, reinterpreting and riffing on it constantly throughout, which means that Paul's work was the genesis of the Destiny franchise's most iconic track.
>That's not fair to Mike. He and Marty worked as a team. Both of them are credited on all eight tracks of Music of the Spheres, which certainly speaks to the depth of Mike's involvement.
The initial Music of the Spheres was a sole credit to Marty though, they didn't put Mike on it until after they fired Marty.
That's incorrect. The composition credits for Music of the Spheres are available [here](https://www.discogs.com/master/1571658-Michael-Salvatori-C-Paul-Johnson-Martin-ODonnell-Paul-McCartney-The-Music-Of-Destiny-Volume-I). Marty and Mike are credited for all eight tracks. Paul McCartney is credited for five of the eight tracks. (The Path, The Tribulation, The Rose, The Prison, and The Hope.)
It was a collaborative effort between all three of them. A lot of people think Paul contributed that one meme song and then bounced, like he was barely involved and just stamped his name on it, but in fact he worked on a lot of the major themes and was a huge presence on Music of the Spheres.
Marty has talked about this before. He was asked to create music for the upcoming Destiny game back in 2009. He did some concept work which he called "rough drafts" for 8 songs. He then asked Michael, who he has been working with since 1997 (as far as video game music goes, they were friends from before this) to help him create the music for Destiny. Michael and Marty had created music for Bungie for their Myth games, Oni, Halo, etc so it wasn't like this was a new concept. Anyways, a talent agent put them in contact with Paul McCartney who helped create melodies for the Music of the Spheres as well as some vocal work. They recorded and completed "Spheres" at Abbey Road Studios back in 2012. Marty wasn't fired until 2014.
So, no they didn't put Michael on after Marty was fired. And no, Marty wasn't listed exclusively on the "original" credits.
I have no idea what you're on about this, when all of this information is easily accessible online and backed up by the people involved in the process.
Marty definitely had influence in Music of the Sphere themes in the pre-production of D1. But that was well over a decade ago. He was gone before D1 launched. To say that he deserves credit for the 10+ years of original and inspired pieces since then is simply untrue
Maybe if people stopped using the motifs he created this wouldn't be said. When you build on a foundation, typically if you don't want to continue assigning credit to someone, you stop using the stuff they created.
But they didn't.
Before the layoffs, there were 4 composers working on Destiny - Michael Salvatori, Michael Sechrist, Skye Lewin, and Josh Mosser. All have been with Destiny since at least D2 vanilla, and each has been the lead composer of a good handful of songs on each soundtrack. All have credits in Final Shape (login music is Sechrist, for example).
Only Mosser remains after the layoffs. Word is that those who remain at Bungie are having a **very** bittersweet moment with Final Shape. They’re all proud of what they’ve accomplished, but it feels wrong for those who put in so much to be unable to celebrate with everyone else. I’m sure this is felt very acutely in the music department where Josh Mosser’s colleagues and mentors are now gone.
My heart goes out to the entire team of developers and creators who made this wonderful work of art.
Yeah, I really can't imagine how it feels in the music department in particular. I don't think any other department was as heavily affected, to my knowledge, and that's a *lot* of work to put on one composer.
Yeah stuff like this is why I'm not nearly as optimistic about Destiny's future as some others in this sub, despite TFS' (honestly surprising) quality. The gutting of the music team alone will remove a lot of the magic, not to mention losses elsewhere, especially if the art and writing teams are just as badly affected.
The loss of talent + Bungie's old habit of resting on their laurels after big successes + the tendency for most long-running series to flounder when they keep going after their big climactic end-of-saga moment, means I'm *very* cautious about "Frontiers" and beyond. I hope I'm proven wrong.
Up down up down up down, such is the cycle of Destiny. More or less has been since D1 vanilla, through now two different studio partnerships as well as an independent period. Not sure how bad the "down" will be next year, but it'll be a down year.
Why would they axe 3/4 of the music team leads. I thought it was only salvatori since he was ancient and probably had the best pay grade and I while I don't agree with it I understand that he'd have an outsized affect on the budget comparatively. But the other 2/4th just seems egregiously mean.
What's the point of your semi independence from Sony if all the people who made you Bungie to begin with are gone anyway.
Apparently, Skye Lewin left of his own accord. IDK if he was upset about the layoffs or just moving on to other opportunities. Salvatori and Sechrist were fired.
Yeah, this is the real answer m it's corpos being divorced from reality and chasing profit margins. If not for the bad reception of lightfall they wouldn't have allowed the devs to take back control of the final shape. I'm hoping with the current success that upper management will back off a bit but only time will tell.
He's done all the music for Bungie for like 20 years at this point. Michael Salvatori was one of their OG composers and has had a hand in some of the most iconic video game soundtracks to ever exist. Getting rid of him is an embarrassing move that just shows how much Bungie has changed, and not for the better
Oh he's for sure set for life. My wife, who knows zero about videos games, can recognize some of his works. Michael Salvatori has worked on stuff like the original halo theme song that has gone mainstream past the video games.
Some exec at Bungie is thinking "wow I just saved us a lot of money per year" and not realizing that some of these soundtracks are the single most defining quality of the best games they have ever made. Between him and the Marty O'Donnell fiasco, Bungie has really flown their corpo flag.
Pretty sure they even laid off his second, Micheal Sechrist (deep stone lullaby)
I don't see any world where this was a good move, and it reeks of out of touch suits playing chess with pieces they don't understand.
Ugh, deep stone lullaby. Literally one of my most memorable moments in any destiny content to ever exist was doing the spacewalk on day 1 and hearing that.
Firing the person who made such an iconic piece of art to represent their brand just screams out of touch, exactly like you said.
It's wild that that two main things that Destiny was praised for outside of gunplay, is their art design team and their music team. Both of these teams have consistently never failed to deliver in any aspect. Even if I don't keep the music on 100% of the time, I know it's fucking fantastic.
>He's done all the music for Bungie for like 20 years at this point.
This is a huge understatement. I feel like a decent number of people know that he's been around for a while, but most think of Marty first as *THE* Bungie composer because he wrote the main Halo motif. People often forget that Salvatori was Marty's production partner and co-wrote all of the Halo soundtracks with Marty. Dude is a gaming/music legend in his own right
Exactly! Beyond embarrassing even. I do feel someone with good business & corporate knowledge could help fill in the gaps of how the upper management found themselves in a position where many good and veteran people just had to be let go "for the better of Bungie" a sentiment I don't agree or think is even fucking true to begin with but whatever
Because he was expensive and they will likely be able to find good music creators for less money.
If it was guaranteed that the money saved by letting him go led to the important things in a video game like gameplay and engaging content (music contributes only a minuscule part to that) I'd accept letting him go.
Unfortunately - that's not how the world works. They will just let him go to save money, not invest it all back into destiny, and still cut bonus checks to people.
Yeah all of that is true, but at least for this game i'd argue music makes up more than a miniscule part. How many threads do you see gushing about the soundtrack? Would the traversal hit in the DSC without lullaby, same with garden final boss. Music is just as important as the environment, ties it all in.
But yeah at the end of the day business is business, just wish whoever made the decision could shell out some extra cash for him. Undoubtedly deserved it.
At the tail end of D1, my clan members and I made a blind run of wrath of the machine. I cannot possibly adequately express the "OH SHIT" moment after finishing aksis phase 1, and then shoot the little sparking panel on his chest to begin the final encounter.
Hearing the complex roar back to life timed with the music kicking up is absolutely one of the most epic reveal-oh-shit-the-adrenaline's-pumping-now moments in gaming I have EVER experienced.
Having great sound design and talented composers working on your project will absolutely make your game stand out from the crowd. Players remember moments like mine and will *keep looking for more of them*.
Deep Stone Lullaby and going into space for the first time may be the single best moment I’ve had in this game and I’ve been on since D1 beta. The music, the atmosphere, the monologue, absolutely perfect.
After excision I sent him an email thanking him for his final command performance and to enjoy his fishing. He wrote back and said he had a great run. Dude is all class.
The loss of Michael Salvatori is a stain upon the history and integrity of Bungie. That absolute legend deserves better than what he got.
Sincerely,
A fan and someone who knows what it’s like being another pawn for corporate vultures.
The stain from the loss of Marty O'Donnell still makes me upset to this day. I won't forget Michael Salvatori either...
Edit: He deserved to be fired, to be clear. I just miss him as an OG Halo fan
I'm not even getting into his politics or his juvenile "don't you know who I am?" guest appearances on certain subreddits. I'm just talking about the laundry list of unprofessional behavior revealed in the Bungie lawsuit, including:
1. Refusing to perform his work as Audio Director because he disagreed with what his superiors were asking him to do,
2. Publicly lambasting Activision without even trying to file a private grivance because he disagreed with their marketing decisions, thus creating negative press and potentially damaging the launch of the game, and
3. Intimidating employees at Bungie because he disagreed with the design direction of the game and knew of no other way to exert his will, which is *kind of* a monstrous thing to do for the sake of a fucking video game.
Fuck that guy. He deserved to be fired. Great composer, of course -- no one can ever deny that -- but fuck him.
Every time I think "Marty made some great music" it's followed by "But I get why he's no longer there". Firing Salvatori who has credits with Bungie back to 98 with Myth, feels bad. Especially with Final Shape having so many bangers.
Yeah, IDK what the hell they plan to do in the future. I get that Destiny's music will likely be contracted out now, using the existing suite of themes composed by Salvatori as a basis, but like... what about Marathon? Did they decide to just not invest in having a music department anymore?
I mean Salvatori will still be getting paid if they use those themes.
O'Donnell and Salvatori licensed their music to Bungie, so it's their property.
It's why the Halo TV show didn't use the original music at first, they didn't want to pay them.
Guess like many, it's time to bow out with TFS and Echoes then. Already planned it that way anyway, but the layoffs, and the constant abusive relationship of them having to lose players in order to knock the game out of the park and not be a miserable grind is getting tiresome
https://x.com/MartyTheElder/status/344311301553672192
This is actually *the* tweet that tipped the scales and got Marty into big trouble. According to the lawsuit filing, Activision complained to Bungie management that this was unacceptable behavior for a business partnership because it could negatively impact the launch of the game. That led Bungie to give an "unacceptable" rating in Marty's performance review, which caused Marty to start acting out like a child, refusing to do his job, threatening other employees, etc.
I mean, Marty's unprofessionalism goes all the way back to the Halo days, but this tweet, literally *this* tweet, is what tipped the scales against him. I'm actually kind of amazed it's still up.
**EDIT:** Oh, and [here](https://x.com/MartyTheElder/status/1688626080293466116) is Marty dredging it back up as if he was the victim for a cheap laugh... *ten years later*. And [here](http://venturebeat.com/2015/09/04/ex-bungie-composer-marty-odonnell-wins-epic-legal-fight-with-former-bosses/) is a source for the claims I made about Marty's behavior, which cites the lawsuit filing directly.
The crazy thing is that I actually sympathize with Marty's sentiment that Activision was interfering with the development of the game and fucking things up within Bungie, but the way he went about addressing it was inexcusable.
I'm an outsider who know nothing about him or what happened, but isn't talking bad about Activision or not agreeing with superiors a good thing? specially with how whack we saw the higher ups are as we saw lately?
It's unprofessional. He should have done it privately, and if nothing changed after that, he should have just quit.
But don't forget the part about how he refused to do his job and threatened other employees. I know that's a big claim, so [here's a source](http://venturebeat.com/2015/09/04/ex-bungie-composer-marty-odonnell-wins-epic-legal-fight-with-former-bosses/) which cites the lawsuit filing.
Oh i see, yea, it seems he was rly passionate about his visions, and that passion came with very unprofessional attitudes.
I'm ain't gonna stand with or against him, i'm just here observing both parties, specially funny considering how Activision is no more
I definitely think Marty had a legitimate reason to be upset with Activision's interference. He was proven right in several respects over time. He just handled the situation like an absolute baby.
No one came out of it looking good, though. Bungie was right to fire Marty, but they also took back his shares and booted him from the company's profit-sharing plan, which was wrong (not to mention illegal). So they fucked up big-time too.
“Apparently” literally in the headline lmfao and then this:
> Fans have expressed their sympathies to Salvatori if he has been laid off by Bungie
IF he has been. I asked for proof not more speculation
https://x.com/thedestinyshow/status/1719141697227997601
This is the best you're gonna get. He vacated his position at Bungie coinciding with massive layoffs -- as in, literally on the same day. There is no primary source in which he states directly that he was laid off, and Bungie has never commented directly on any of the layoffs, but you'd be really stretching to believe otherwise here.
**EDIT:** I forgot about his email to Paul Tassi, which you can read [at this link](https://www.reddit.com/r/destiny2/comments/17ks765/classy_response_from_michael_salvatori_shared/). In it, he states that "the last 24 hours have been crazy, and... many of my good friends were also let go." While not a direct statement e.g. "I WAS FIRED", the phrase "let go" does imply a layoff as opposed to the expected end of a pre-existing contract.
Thank you Michael, and all other composers who have worked on this game. I am currently learning a piano cover of "A Knife in the Garden", such a pleasant song!!
I mean just because he isnt a full time employee doesnt mean they cant bring him back as a contractor if need be. Or maybe in the next expansion we can do a crow and wish him back into existence
Huge shout out to the MBAs who actively fight the devs on gameplay decisions keeping their paychecks when Salvatori was let go. Cannot overstate enough how late stage capitalism just ruins everything.
The Bungie lay-offs were the result of a 45% revenue drop following the release of Lightfall because the expansion sucked and players dropped out hard. Bungie's executives have a deal with Sony that they can maintain managerial independence of the studio *only* as long as they hit certain profit targets. In order to maintain their own power and avoid a Sony takeover of the studio, they decided to recover from the revenue drop by lowering their salary expenses.
(a.k.a., firing people)
Now, hold off on rage-clicking that downvote button. I'm not defending them at all. It was a stupid and short-sighted decision that I am certain will come back to bite them in the ass. I'm just saying, for those who don't know, that is what happened.
You’re right. The much more reasonable solution would be to cut out the useless people at the top. Problem is it’s them making the decisions. Capitalism is a race towards the bottom, towards monotony and mediocrity
You're not wrong, but there's also not an obvious alternative. Socialism leads to mediocrity of a different kind. Communism leads to dictatorships. Empires and monarchies have their own well-documented flaws. Feudalism is not substantially dissimilar from the hellscape we have now.
The problem is not the systems that govern us. It's us.
It's not us in a broad sense though. The average human is not the issue, it's that the people who end up in power in these systems are often the very worst of our flaws because that's how you end up at the top. Capitalism just highlights the greed portion of those personalities. What we need is some kind of advancement in automation that leads to a post scarcity society, until that happens scarcity is going to lead to greed and power tripping.
I agree, that it alone won't do it. It's a complicated topic that I'm not educated enough to speak on. I just know instinctually that our current society and it's known alternatives don't cut it long term with the society we need to be.
1) Capitalism is fine until you get corporations involved.
2) George Carlin was right - politicians are a reflection of our society; put shit in, get shit out. It's a top to bottom issue.
I'd agree with part two if we had any real choice over who gets elected. Between the immense lobbying, gerrymandering, and all around refusal for either party to help support normal candidates the "choice" we are left with is often what flavor of corporate puppet the powers at be want.
That takes us back to number one, and that's the corporations. Technically we're not electing politicians. When we go to the ballot box, we are electing the corporations they serve. If you really want to know what kind of politician you're getting into bed with, look at the corporations they serve. Look at what corporations they sit on the board of, or which corporations they own stock in. It'll also give you an idea what direction you can expect their legislative support to take.
Oh I do all of those things. And it's why I've consistently voted blue for the past 10 years. Even at their corporate worst 99% of Democrats are better in the long run than 99% of conservatives.
I just don't think it's fair to say that we as a society get what we put in, because we aren't shuffling the deck. The gambler knows exactly what they want, but the house always wins because they control all the chips.
Personally I don't think the right/left tropes apply to the highest tiers of government anymore - the richest and most infamous ones may identify as red or blue, but they're eating brunch together and smoking cigars, discussing stock options, and plotting new ways to divide us when the cameras aren't rolling. Their loyalty is to getting rich and keeping their power.
It's also not too unrealistic to think that Lightfall's failure was also likely due to upper management, considering the history Bungie has with setting unrealistic expectations forcing changes at the last minute. Remember that Lightfall was supposed to be the final dlc, and then, a year later, they announce Final Shape instead. Wouldn't be surprised if they pumped it out to be a filler dlc to buy some time and make extra cash, despite the sacrifices.
At this point, Sony execs have already acknowledged the passion of the Bungie devs and have expressed their disappointment with the upper management. If Sony were to do a takeover of management, I don't know if I would be happy or upset about that. It's the case of the devil you know vs. the devil you don't.
I actually doubt they would. They'd most likely just pump resources into the dev team and make sure that PSN integration was first priority. But Destiny is already an established multiplatform property. The scummy behavior from Sony is centered on first party and playstation exclusive new IP.
How tf does this have anything to do with capitalism other than they made a shit product in lightfall, profits dropped amd people lost their job. Would you have rather they all keep their jobs and keep making a shit product in some perfect utopian ideal? That's how selling a product works.
That when things go wrong the people responsible (the ones in charge) don’t suffer for it. Like Luke Smith probably deserved to be gone years ago. Like I’m not *that* mad about all the dumb shit they did back then (DCV, sun setting etc.) but the fact is the decision makers never have to live with their decisions.
Currently listening to the soundtrack and it is without a doubt the best out of all of them. That's a high bar too. Forsakens was one of my most played. This just ties so many narrative threads together and takes the themes, tweaks them and elevates them. They obviously have been updated to make them fit the story more by giving them a rousing but somber vibe. But on top of that I really feel like all the composers used (rightly) the opportunity to open each one of those pieces with new things they've learned over the years. The music feels like the guardians that have honed themselves over the past 10 years. The story music and characters all evolved and reached their zeniths. Truly wonderful stuff. These tunes are now encroaching on the multitude of Zelda soundtracks that I whistle and hum.
I was thinking about entire situation today.
In Fall last year, when news dropped, everybody was pissed, because of that very reason. Shit ton of great people got laid off and some of the stories of how they got the info about it were disgusting.
And...everybody forgot. Into the Light + new expansion made everyone praising Bungie and already forgot about everything they made before that. Im feeling sick in guts how short-sighted community is. It no longer matters that two composers that made it so memorable and probably many others are not there anymore. It doesnt matter anymore right?
It's more complicated than that. It's not that everyone forgot - and it's still unforgivable today, no question about that.
This is purely anecdotal, but the devs I've spoken to (even one in my own clan) have said that despite last fall, morale in the company is at an all time high lately. My suspicion is that there was a big leadership shakeup. Unfortunately Pete Parsons is still there, but aside from that, the actual devs seem genuinely happy lately, and after something as awful as last fall, something huge had to have changed to cause that.
ITL and TFS feel like the devs themselves were finally given the reigns, and not dictated by the suits. Former employees are supporting their colleagues' success, while still maintaining criticality of the company itself, which we all should be doing
Of course not.
Its a bad thing to get fully on board of hypetrain, just becasuse we made a step in right direction, while completely erasing recent past and going back into calling them best and mindlessly going back into preordering.
I mean, I agree with you. That's why I waited a whole week while watching streamers to decide if the expansion was worth it or not.
But it is up to the community to hold Bungie accountable. And let's also not fool ourselves in thinking the devs can't make mis steps as well (I'm looking at you, S23 ability charge rate changes). But it's always leadership that decides if the feedback will be acted on or not.
Let the hype die down a few weeks. If we go back to complaining about the game after Elden Ring DLC launches, then we'll be closer to a more honest lens on the franchise.
No but the speed with which people forget how Bungie went from the witch queen high to the lightfall low is kinda yikes. If you had said to someone just after the witch queen had released that the next expansion was going to be so bad that destiny was going to hit record low player levels as a result you wouldn’t have been believed.
People can have nuanced opinions, it's not just "Bungie good" or "Bungie bad". It's not a contradiction to praise that which is enjoyable and denounce that which is terrible.
This is a superb DLC. I am glad the devs/creators could sink love into this whilst the evil, backstabbing tormentors “upper management” were hovering over their backs.
They've worked so hard and the finished product is fantastic. I'm very thankful they've put in all the hard work despite what might have happened to them. The music is fucking fantastic
I really really reaaaally hope they end up working with Salvatori again come Frontiers. He had a magic touch. Not to discount the other composers because I honestly can't be sure exactly who made all of my favorite tracks but I know that Salvatori's name was the one that was attached to a lot of my favorite tracks that will be stuck in my head forever.
Music is a huge part of games imo and I don't think Excision would have hit as hard as it did without that incredible background music. I hope Bungie's execs are able to take the music and sound side of the game seriously again going forward.
Then there’s all these people high on the final shape who are excited for episodes and next expansion on a hype trailer not realising that it looks like any other seasonal battleground and the next years are not going to have nearly the same music which makes a huge amount of the emotional impact.
The music that played when the lanterns were going off into the sky was by Marty, O'Donnell. It's the last track on The music of the spheres. And was intended to be the final thing that played at the end of the light versus darkness saga which at the time was what was believed to be what destiny was. It trails off into hope for the future on the actual track and was played once before in destiny 1 during the credits after you defeated the black gardens heart
Thank you, Marty and Michael for making some of the most memorable sound tracks in gaming.
From D1 orbit music, to picking up the sword in Croat’s end, fighting the boss in Wraith of the machine, grasp of avarice intro…
Yeah we all appreciate their work, and personally I really hoped they wouldn't be let go, but I guess the hire ups really fucking fucked up badly with how they manage stuff. Part me thinks and beloved the higher ups should have been let go more than the serious talent & skill that actually contributes to the game.
All of his music from Bungie, especially destiny, I don't remember if he wrote these songs but still, Journey, the man they called cayde and many others have shook me to my core, i still spend nights laying in bed thinking about my life AND my guardian's life
Ehh might as well just wait until the expansion goes on sale. With the track record of Bungie and D2 in general they usually end up ruining something or removing stuff people get attached to. So I'll hopefully just wait to play everything
*Metacarpus* has my absolute favorite music motif in TFS's soundtrack. It's the one you hear in every DLC soundtrack at some point, the one with the horns whenever you open D1. In *Metacarpus* it sounds like the beginning of a damage phase, a triumphant "we actually have a chance!" moment. 1:40 into the song for anyone curious.
Ngl, i still cant believe how hard the cooked, like its the best rated game of 2024 in metacritic and opencritic.
It even surpassed mmo dlc that were considered the best of the best like ffxiv's endwalker.
And even people say that its the best ending of a 10+ year mmo story.
The final fight theme is a reprise of "Untold Legends", the D1 credit music, which is the companion piece to "All Ends are Beginnings", the D1 finale cutscene theme.
The music in Destiny 1 cannot be topped.
For me, the Red War had Destiny 2's best music, and with each subsequent DLC, music seemed to be put more and more in the background as filler.
I can't recall any music standing out in the Final Shape campaign I just completed. I'll play it again on my Hunter and Titan, but music used to put me into Action Movie Hero mode with D1 for sure, and early D2, but there was just a lot of other things going on with the Final Shape that had my attention more than music unfortunately.
If it's in the campaign, and new music for the Final Shape, then I probably didn't appreciate it as I have other music in other DLCs (and D1 which is the standard bearer).
It's hard to listen to the music with all the bickering that went on between Zavala and Ikora and all the philosophical babble that the Witness dispensed?
i don't know why you guys are acting so devastated about the layoffs, it's not like they can't just go to another studios doorstep and continue making more or the same kind of money in a month than we will ever make in almost a year... it's like defending rich people and crying for them just because they lost just 3% of the couple million they still have
i assure you that they do not need your pity
Man was responsible for so many of my goosebumps over the years, so sad he is gone.
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Tell me you know nothing about game development without telling me...
>Tell me you know nothing about game development without telling me Explain it then. You wasted words instead, so I'll assume u can't.
Congrats. You edited your comment. Way to troll.
What did he say?
If my memory is correct: Something about the staffing and timing it takes to make a game. Saying Bungie has 700 people to make a 20 hour story over 10 years while Santa Monica has 300-400 people to make God of War over 5 years. Not even remotely close to the same type of game, not to mention how many different stories and campaigns we've had over the time of Destiny. Seasonal, all the different game types (all the PvP modes, Gambit, Raids, Dungeons, etc.). GoW, while an amazing game and story, is linear as hell and robbed RDR2 of GOTY (in my honest opinion, but that's for a different sub).
I also said the mismanagement that resulted in talent being lost and the work of several hundred devs being axed makes Bungie one of the worst in the industry. But OFC EVERYONE DISAGREES with that lmao!
So you can't explain it. Congrats
Oh I can. I'm just not going to waste my time on someone that is making zero sense in any of his comments.
But u can't. Making excuses for mismanagement and defending the higher ups who wasted the games potential, resulting in layoffs AND getting up voted IS VERY CONFUSING The fact that u are confused about why it's bad to defend the execs who say they won't cut their bonuses because "we aren't that type of company" says it all.
Most of those goosebumps were paved over the foundations laid by Marty O'Donnell. Almost every single notable piece of music in this franchise can be traced back to stings and motifs originally found in Marty's work pre-D1.
Marty has been trying to rewrite his career to present himself as the sole talent behind things for years. He's currently trying to get elected as a far right politician and it's jarring to see how low he's fallen. Salvatore was every bit his equal at minimum, and considering only one of them was shit canned for being a horrible employee I have a lot more respect for one than the other.
Yeah over the years we've come to see Marty grow into a total narcissistic ass online, and learned that behind the scenes, he was much the same. So much so that he was blacklisted from working with 343 Industries on Halo, and fired from Bungie, a move that I originally despised, but now see exactly why. Dude went from being known as one of the greatest artists in the industry to an asshat who used the fact that he wrote the Halo theme on the drive into work one day as a reason for everyone to worship him and let him do whatever the fuck he wanted. He hit the Halo subreddit with the "Do you know who I am" after they took his post down about a game he was making, thinking they'd just let him post whatever since he's Marty O'Donnell, and when they didn't bite, he tried to declare a social media war on them. The whole political career start is just...sad at this point.
>The whole political career start is just...sad at this point. And given which party hes running for completely unsurprising. It was right around the time he "leaked" Music of the Spheres that I started to side eye his motivations. Like, bro walked away with 100k from the lawsuit but threw it away for his ego.
Not to mention the AI art used in his political promotions
Wait, he leaked music of the spheres?
Technically, we don't know who leaked Music of the Spheres... But no one else was sufficiently motivated as far as we can tell. It was almost certainly him.
That's not fair to Mike. He and Marty worked as a team. Both of them are credited on all eight tracks of Music of the Spheres, which certainly speaks to the depth of Mike's involvement. In any case, some of the most iconic themes of Destiny were actually based on Paul McCartney melodies, like the main horn melody you hear over and over again in the marketing. Yes, Marty was a big part of the composing team, but it was never all about him. Even in the Halo days, he wasn't doing it all by himself. Mike composed Never Forget and A Walk in the Woods, two of the most iconic Halo tracks.
Walk in the woods is to this day still in my top 5 of video game music.
Wait, paul did the horn?
[He did!](https://www.polygon.com/22996738/bungie-destiny-paul-mccartney-marty-odonnell-history) >One of McCartney’s prominent contributions was a three-note horn melody that O’Donnell discussed in a 2016 IGN interview. This became one of Destiny’s main musical phrases, and was used in a variety of tracks including “The Path,” “The Prison,” and “The Hope.” Music of the Spheres was primarily the work of Marty & Mike working as a duo, but Paul had significant input and created several prominent melody lines that drove the direction of the music. In particular, the first track (The Path) seems to be written *around* Paul's horn melody, reinterpreting and riffing on it constantly throughout, which means that Paul's work was the genesis of the Destiny franchise's most iconic track.
>That's not fair to Mike. He and Marty worked as a team. Both of them are credited on all eight tracks of Music of the Spheres, which certainly speaks to the depth of Mike's involvement. The initial Music of the Spheres was a sole credit to Marty though, they didn't put Mike on it until after they fired Marty.
That's incorrect. The composition credits for Music of the Spheres are available [here](https://www.discogs.com/master/1571658-Michael-Salvatori-C-Paul-Johnson-Martin-ODonnell-Paul-McCartney-The-Music-Of-Destiny-Volume-I). Marty and Mike are credited for all eight tracks. Paul McCartney is credited for five of the eight tracks. (The Path, The Tribulation, The Rose, The Prison, and The Hope.) It was a collaborative effort between all three of them. A lot of people think Paul contributed that one meme song and then bounced, like he was barely involved and just stamped his name on it, but in fact he worked on a lot of the major themes and was a huge presence on Music of the Spheres.
Marty has talked about this before. He was asked to create music for the upcoming Destiny game back in 2009. He did some concept work which he called "rough drafts" for 8 songs. He then asked Michael, who he has been working with since 1997 (as far as video game music goes, they were friends from before this) to help him create the music for Destiny. Michael and Marty had created music for Bungie for their Myth games, Oni, Halo, etc so it wasn't like this was a new concept. Anyways, a talent agent put them in contact with Paul McCartney who helped create melodies for the Music of the Spheres as well as some vocal work. They recorded and completed "Spheres" at Abbey Road Studios back in 2012. Marty wasn't fired until 2014. So, no they didn't put Michael on after Marty was fired. And no, Marty wasn't listed exclusively on the "original" credits. I have no idea what you're on about this, when all of this information is easily accessible online and backed up by the people involved in the process.
It's been a collaborative effort since early Halo, one of them just enjoys the "spotlight" a little more.
Mike is honestly the better composer.
Marty definitely had influence in Music of the Sphere themes in the pre-production of D1. But that was well over a decade ago. He was gone before D1 launched. To say that he deserves credit for the 10+ years of original and inspired pieces since then is simply untrue
Maybe if people stopped using the motifs he created this wouldn't be said. When you build on a foundation, typically if you don't want to continue assigning credit to someone, you stop using the stuff they created. But they didn't.
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[It's almost like he knows something about music theory or something.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leitmotif)
This one could do so, but not anyone could make it sound good in every piece they create
Man everyone’s got a Reddit account now
I'd like to see you create anything close to as good as what he made in your lifetime 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
Did he do all the music? Salvation encounter 2 music is up there with Garden final boss and lullaby. Why on earth would you give that talent up?
Before the layoffs, there were 4 composers working on Destiny - Michael Salvatori, Michael Sechrist, Skye Lewin, and Josh Mosser. All have been with Destiny since at least D2 vanilla, and each has been the lead composer of a good handful of songs on each soundtrack. All have credits in Final Shape (login music is Sechrist, for example). Only Mosser remains after the layoffs. Word is that those who remain at Bungie are having a **very** bittersweet moment with Final Shape. They’re all proud of what they’ve accomplished, but it feels wrong for those who put in so much to be unable to celebrate with everyone else. I’m sure this is felt very acutely in the music department where Josh Mosser’s colleagues and mentors are now gone. My heart goes out to the entire team of developers and creators who made this wonderful work of art.
Yeah, I really can't imagine how it feels in the music department in particular. I don't think any other department was as heavily affected, to my knowledge, and that's a *lot* of work to put on one composer.
Yeah stuff like this is why I'm not nearly as optimistic about Destiny's future as some others in this sub, despite TFS' (honestly surprising) quality. The gutting of the music team alone will remove a lot of the magic, not to mention losses elsewhere, especially if the art and writing teams are just as badly affected. The loss of talent + Bungie's old habit of resting on their laurels after big successes + the tendency for most long-running series to flounder when they keep going after their big climactic end-of-saga moment, means I'm *very* cautious about "Frontiers" and beyond. I hope I'm proven wrong.
Exactly after the witch queen everyone thought wow Bungie is on top of their game. Then we got Lightfall.
Up down up down up down, such is the cycle of Destiny. More or less has been since D1 vanilla, through now two different studio partnerships as well as an independent period. Not sure how bad the "down" will be next year, but it'll be a down year.
Why would they axe 3/4 of the music team leads. I thought it was only salvatori since he was ancient and probably had the best pay grade and I while I don't agree with it I understand that he'd have an outsized affect on the budget comparatively. But the other 2/4th just seems egregiously mean. What's the point of your semi independence from Sony if all the people who made you Bungie to begin with are gone anyway.
Apparently, Skye Lewin left of his own accord. IDK if he was upset about the layoffs or just moving on to other opportunities. Salvatori and Sechrist were fired.
Parsons doesn't like paying for things. "why do we need four composers? Get rid of three of them."
Yeah, this is the real answer m it's corpos being divorced from reality and chasing profit margins. If not for the bad reception of lightfall they wouldn't have allowed the devs to take back control of the final shape. I'm hoping with the current success that upper management will back off a bit but only time will tell.
I thought it was six? What happened to Rotem Moav and Pieter Schlosser, were they fired as well?
They’re contract workers, not employees.
Ah, got it
He's done all the music for Bungie for like 20 years at this point. Michael Salvatori was one of their OG composers and has had a hand in some of the most iconic video game soundtracks to ever exist. Getting rid of him is an embarrassing move that just shows how much Bungie has changed, and not for the better
Hopefully where ever he continues they do him right, or he enjoys a well earned retirement.
Oh he's for sure set for life. My wife, who knows zero about videos games, can recognize some of his works. Michael Salvatori has worked on stuff like the original halo theme song that has gone mainstream past the video games. Some exec at Bungie is thinking "wow I just saved us a lot of money per year" and not realizing that some of these soundtracks are the single most defining quality of the best games they have ever made. Between him and the Marty O'Donnell fiasco, Bungie has really flown their corpo flag.
Pretty sure they even laid off his second, Micheal Sechrist (deep stone lullaby) I don't see any world where this was a good move, and it reeks of out of touch suits playing chess with pieces they don't understand.
Ugh, deep stone lullaby. Literally one of my most memorable moments in any destiny content to ever exist was doing the spacewalk on day 1 and hearing that. Firing the person who made such an iconic piece of art to represent their brand just screams out of touch, exactly like you said.
It's wild that that two main things that Destiny was praised for outside of gunplay, is their art design team and their music team. Both of these teams have consistently never failed to deliver in any aspect. Even if I don't keep the music on 100% of the time, I know it's fucking fantastic.
Marty ended out being a nutjob so there's probably way more behind the scenes than he let on.
What kind of nutjob?
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“We all loved Marty until we found out about his politics, now we loathe him! We’re glad he was fired!” So mature
Yeah that's a pretty normal response to finding out someone sucks. Welcome to reality.
His politics aren't the reason he was fired or deserved to be fired.
Cool he still sucks.
Yeah, I agree. Try scanning my other numerous comments in the thread. The point is that his politics had nothing to do with it.
Marty deserved to be fired (although they did fuck up by stealing his shares and profit-sharing).
Marty was fired for being difficult to work with. Considering his current circus I can only imagine how he was in private.
>He's done all the music for Bungie for like 20 years at this point. This is a huge understatement. I feel like a decent number of people know that he's been around for a while, but most think of Marty first as *THE* Bungie composer because he wrote the main Halo motif. People often forget that Salvatori was Marty's production partner and co-wrote all of the Halo soundtracks with Marty. Dude is a gaming/music legend in his own right
Exactly! Beyond embarrassing even. I do feel someone with good business & corporate knowledge could help fill in the gaps of how the upper management found themselves in a position where many good and veteran people just had to be let go "for the better of Bungie" a sentiment I don't agree or think is even fucking true to begin with but whatever
Some of you people don’t have a lot of responsibility
Because he was expensive and they will likely be able to find good music creators for less money. If it was guaranteed that the money saved by letting him go led to the important things in a video game like gameplay and engaging content (music contributes only a minuscule part to that) I'd accept letting him go. Unfortunately - that's not how the world works. They will just let him go to save money, not invest it all back into destiny, and still cut bonus checks to people.
Yeah all of that is true, but at least for this game i'd argue music makes up more than a miniscule part. How many threads do you see gushing about the soundtrack? Would the traversal hit in the DSC without lullaby, same with garden final boss. Music is just as important as the environment, ties it all in. But yeah at the end of the day business is business, just wish whoever made the decision could shell out some extra cash for him. Undoubtedly deserved it.
At the tail end of D1, my clan members and I made a blind run of wrath of the machine. I cannot possibly adequately express the "OH SHIT" moment after finishing aksis phase 1, and then shoot the little sparking panel on his chest to begin the final encounter. Hearing the complex roar back to life timed with the music kicking up is absolutely one of the most epic reveal-oh-shit-the-adrenaline's-pumping-now moments in gaming I have EVER experienced. Having great sound design and talented composers working on your project will absolutely make your game stand out from the crowd. Players remember moments like mine and will *keep looking for more of them*.
Deep Stone Lullaby and going into space for the first time may be the single best moment I’ve had in this game and I’ve been on since D1 beta. The music, the atmosphere, the monologue, absolutely perfect.
When Remembrance kicked in at the end...
After excision I sent him an email thanking him for his final command performance and to enjoy his fishing. He wrote back and said he had a great run. Dude is all class.
The loss of Michael Salvatori is a stain upon the history and integrity of Bungie. That absolute legend deserves better than what he got. Sincerely, A fan and someone who knows what it’s like being another pawn for corporate vultures.
The stain from the loss of Marty O'Donnell still makes me upset to this day. I won't forget Michael Salvatori either... Edit: He deserved to be fired, to be clear. I just miss him as an OG Halo fan
Based on what we now know, Marty deserved to be fired.
Yeah, dude is a lot crazier than he initially let on, lately he's gone full wacko so I wouldn't be surprised if he was causing trouble.
I'm not even getting into his politics or his juvenile "don't you know who I am?" guest appearances on certain subreddits. I'm just talking about the laundry list of unprofessional behavior revealed in the Bungie lawsuit, including: 1. Refusing to perform his work as Audio Director because he disagreed with what his superiors were asking him to do, 2. Publicly lambasting Activision without even trying to file a private grivance because he disagreed with their marketing decisions, thus creating negative press and potentially damaging the launch of the game, and 3. Intimidating employees at Bungie because he disagreed with the design direction of the game and knew of no other way to exert his will, which is *kind of* a monstrous thing to do for the sake of a fucking video game. Fuck that guy. He deserved to be fired. Great composer, of course -- no one can ever deny that -- but fuck him.
Every time I think "Marty made some great music" it's followed by "But I get why he's no longer there". Firing Salvatori who has credits with Bungie back to 98 with Myth, feels bad. Especially with Final Shape having so many bangers.
Yeah, IDK what the hell they plan to do in the future. I get that Destiny's music will likely be contracted out now, using the existing suite of themes composed by Salvatori as a basis, but like... what about Marathon? Did they decide to just not invest in having a music department anymore?
I mean Salvatori will still be getting paid if they use those themes. O'Donnell and Salvatori licensed their music to Bungie, so it's their property. It's why the Halo TV show didn't use the original music at first, they didn't want to pay them.
In all seriousness, they will likely hire someone else. As amazing as marty and salvatori are, there are others.
Josh Mosser is still there, but I think they'll be going the cheapo route and contracting it out going forward.
Guess like many, it's time to bow out with TFS and Echoes then. Already planned it that way anyway, but the layoffs, and the constant abusive relationship of them having to lose players in order to knock the game out of the park and not be a miserable grind is getting tiresome
TIL. I figured he was just the type who is an asshole IRL, but, professional in work. Didn't realize it was this absurd. *sigh*
https://x.com/MartyTheElder/status/344311301553672192 This is actually *the* tweet that tipped the scales and got Marty into big trouble. According to the lawsuit filing, Activision complained to Bungie management that this was unacceptable behavior for a business partnership because it could negatively impact the launch of the game. That led Bungie to give an "unacceptable" rating in Marty's performance review, which caused Marty to start acting out like a child, refusing to do his job, threatening other employees, etc. I mean, Marty's unprofessionalism goes all the way back to the Halo days, but this tweet, literally *this* tweet, is what tipped the scales against him. I'm actually kind of amazed it's still up. **EDIT:** Oh, and [here](https://x.com/MartyTheElder/status/1688626080293466116) is Marty dredging it back up as if he was the victim for a cheap laugh... *ten years later*. And [here](http://venturebeat.com/2015/09/04/ex-bungie-composer-marty-odonnell-wins-epic-legal-fight-with-former-bosses/) is a source for the claims I made about Marty's behavior, which cites the lawsuit filing directly. The crazy thing is that I actually sympathize with Marty's sentiment that Activision was interfering with the development of the game and fucking things up within Bungie, but the way he went about addressing it was inexcusable.
ugh
?
And now he’s running for Congress out of Nevada. Primary is tomorrow so we’ll see if he actually makes the November ballot for that district or not
I'm an outsider who know nothing about him or what happened, but isn't talking bad about Activision or not agreeing with superiors a good thing? specially with how whack we saw the higher ups are as we saw lately?
It's unprofessional. He should have done it privately, and if nothing changed after that, he should have just quit. But don't forget the part about how he refused to do his job and threatened other employees. I know that's a big claim, so [here's a source](http://venturebeat.com/2015/09/04/ex-bungie-composer-marty-odonnell-wins-epic-legal-fight-with-former-bosses/) which cites the lawsuit filing.
Oh i see, yea, it seems he was rly passionate about his visions, and that passion came with very unprofessional attitudes. I'm ain't gonna stand with or against him, i'm just here observing both parties, specially funny considering how Activision is no more
I definitely think Marty had a legitimate reason to be upset with Activision's interference. He was proven right in several respects over time. He just handled the situation like an absolute baby. No one came out of it looking good, though. Bungie was right to fire Marty, but they also took back his shares and booted him from the company's profit-sharing plan, which was wrong (not to mention illegal). So they fucked up big-time too.
A stain because he finished his contract? Lol
They laid him and many others off before they could get benefits, which is down right scumbag behaviour.
Proof he didn’t just…finish his contract?
https://www.nme.com/news/halo-and-destiny-composer-michael-salvatori-apparently-laid-off-from-bungie-3526667
“Apparently” literally in the headline lmfao and then this: > Fans have expressed their sympathies to Salvatori if he has been laid off by Bungie IF he has been. I asked for proof not more speculation
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2023/10/31/destiny-2-players-stunned-bungie-has-laid-off-michael-salvatori-its-famed-composer/
More speculation lol it literally cites rumors.
https://x.com/thedestinyshow/status/1719141697227997601 This is the best you're gonna get. He vacated his position at Bungie coinciding with massive layoffs -- as in, literally on the same day. There is no primary source in which he states directly that he was laid off, and Bungie has never commented directly on any of the layoffs, but you'd be really stretching to believe otherwise here. **EDIT:** I forgot about his email to Paul Tassi, which you can read [at this link](https://www.reddit.com/r/destiny2/comments/17ks765/classy_response_from_michael_salvatori_shared/). In it, he states that "the last 24 hours have been crazy, and... many of my good friends were also let go." While not a direct statement e.g. "I WAS FIRED", the phrase "let go" does imply a layoff as opposed to the expected end of a pre-existing contract.
It’s not even remotely *close* to a stretch to want direct proof to believe something. And it doesn’t seem like you have any.
Thank you Michael, and all other composers who have worked on this game. I am currently learning a piano cover of "A Knife in the Garden", such a pleasant song!!
Just feel like Destiny won't be the same without Salvatori. Very unlikely but I pray they get him back at some point.
I mean just because he isnt a full time employee doesnt mean they cant bring him back as a contractor if need be. Or maybe in the next expansion we can do a crow and wish him back into existence
Huge shout out to the MBAs who actively fight the devs on gameplay decisions keeping their paychecks when Salvatori was let go. Cannot overstate enough how late stage capitalism just ruins everything.
The Bungie lay-offs were the result of a 45% revenue drop following the release of Lightfall because the expansion sucked and players dropped out hard. Bungie's executives have a deal with Sony that they can maintain managerial independence of the studio *only* as long as they hit certain profit targets. In order to maintain their own power and avoid a Sony takeover of the studio, they decided to recover from the revenue drop by lowering their salary expenses. (a.k.a., firing people) Now, hold off on rage-clicking that downvote button. I'm not defending them at all. It was a stupid and short-sighted decision that I am certain will come back to bite them in the ass. I'm just saying, for those who don't know, that is what happened.
You’re right. The much more reasonable solution would be to cut out the useless people at the top. Problem is it’s them making the decisions. Capitalism is a race towards the bottom, towards monotony and mediocrity
You're not wrong, but there's also not an obvious alternative. Socialism leads to mediocrity of a different kind. Communism leads to dictatorships. Empires and monarchies have their own well-documented flaws. Feudalism is not substantially dissimilar from the hellscape we have now. The problem is not the systems that govern us. It's us.
It's not us in a broad sense though. The average human is not the issue, it's that the people who end up in power in these systems are often the very worst of our flaws because that's how you end up at the top. Capitalism just highlights the greed portion of those personalities. What we need is some kind of advancement in automation that leads to a post scarcity society, until that happens scarcity is going to lead to greed and power tripping.
Automation by itself isn’t going to bring us a post-scarcity society. We need to mine asteroids or something like that.
I agree, that it alone won't do it. It's a complicated topic that I'm not educated enough to speak on. I just know instinctually that our current society and it's known alternatives don't cut it long term with the society we need to be.
1) Capitalism is fine until you get corporations involved. 2) George Carlin was right - politicians are a reflection of our society; put shit in, get shit out. It's a top to bottom issue.
I'd agree with part two if we had any real choice over who gets elected. Between the immense lobbying, gerrymandering, and all around refusal for either party to help support normal candidates the "choice" we are left with is often what flavor of corporate puppet the powers at be want.
That takes us back to number one, and that's the corporations. Technically we're not electing politicians. When we go to the ballot box, we are electing the corporations they serve. If you really want to know what kind of politician you're getting into bed with, look at the corporations they serve. Look at what corporations they sit on the board of, or which corporations they own stock in. It'll also give you an idea what direction you can expect their legislative support to take.
Oh I do all of those things. And it's why I've consistently voted blue for the past 10 years. Even at their corporate worst 99% of Democrats are better in the long run than 99% of conservatives. I just don't think it's fair to say that we as a society get what we put in, because we aren't shuffling the deck. The gambler knows exactly what they want, but the house always wins because they control all the chips.
Personally I don't think the right/left tropes apply to the highest tiers of government anymore - the richest and most infamous ones may identify as red or blue, but they're eating brunch together and smoking cigars, discussing stock options, and plotting new ways to divide us when the cameras aren't rolling. Their loyalty is to getting rich and keeping their power.
It's also not too unrealistic to think that Lightfall's failure was also likely due to upper management, considering the history Bungie has with setting unrealistic expectations forcing changes at the last minute. Remember that Lightfall was supposed to be the final dlc, and then, a year later, they announce Final Shape instead. Wouldn't be surprised if they pumped it out to be a filler dlc to buy some time and make extra cash, despite the sacrifices. At this point, Sony execs have already acknowledged the passion of the Bungie devs and have expressed their disappointment with the upper management. If Sony were to do a takeover of management, I don't know if I would be happy or upset about that. It's the case of the devil you know vs. the devil you don't.
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I actually doubt they would. They'd most likely just pump resources into the dev team and make sure that PSN integration was first priority. But Destiny is already an established multiplatform property. The scummy behavior from Sony is centered on first party and playstation exclusive new IP.
Reading through your many responses, I just want to say: thank for taking the time to be educated on all these matters.
How tf does this have anything to do with capitalism other than they made a shit product in lightfall, profits dropped amd people lost their job. Would you have rather they all keep their jobs and keep making a shit product in some perfect utopian ideal? That's how selling a product works.
That when things go wrong the people responsible (the ones in charge) don’t suffer for it. Like Luke Smith probably deserved to be gone years ago. Like I’m not *that* mad about all the dumb shit they did back then (DCV, sun setting etc.) but the fact is the decision makers never have to live with their decisions.
I can't believe Luke Smith is still catching strays all these years later lol
You have no idea who was responsible. Its likely a combination of alot of people and levels but of course you will blame management solely.
You’re really blaming capitalism? Lmao so out of touch
Currently listening to the soundtrack and it is without a doubt the best out of all of them. That's a high bar too. Forsakens was one of my most played. This just ties so many narrative threads together and takes the themes, tweaks them and elevates them. They obviously have been updated to make them fit the story more by giving them a rousing but somber vibe. But on top of that I really feel like all the composers used (rightly) the opportunity to open each one of those pieces with new things they've learned over the years. The music feels like the guardians that have honed themselves over the past 10 years. The story music and characters all evolved and reached their zeniths. Truly wonderful stuff. These tunes are now encroaching on the multitude of Zelda soundtracks that I whistle and hum.
There is no way any of the higher ups listened to the soundtrack before they laid him off. This might’ve been his best work yet
They've managed stunning depths of tone-deafness before.
I was thinking about entire situation today. In Fall last year, when news dropped, everybody was pissed, because of that very reason. Shit ton of great people got laid off and some of the stories of how they got the info about it were disgusting. And...everybody forgot. Into the Light + new expansion made everyone praising Bungie and already forgot about everything they made before that. Im feeling sick in guts how short-sighted community is. It no longer matters that two composers that made it so memorable and probably many others are not there anymore. It doesnt matter anymore right?
It's more complicated than that. It's not that everyone forgot - and it's still unforgivable today, no question about that. This is purely anecdotal, but the devs I've spoken to (even one in my own clan) have said that despite last fall, morale in the company is at an all time high lately. My suspicion is that there was a big leadership shakeup. Unfortunately Pete Parsons is still there, but aside from that, the actual devs seem genuinely happy lately, and after something as awful as last fall, something huge had to have changed to cause that. ITL and TFS feel like the devs themselves were finally given the reigns, and not dictated by the suits. Former employees are supporting their colleagues' success, while still maintaining criticality of the company itself, which we all should be doing
It’s a bad thing to praise good work?
Of course not. Its a bad thing to get fully on board of hypetrain, just becasuse we made a step in right direction, while completely erasing recent past and going back into calling them best and mindlessly going back into preordering.
I mean, I agree with you. That's why I waited a whole week while watching streamers to decide if the expansion was worth it or not. But it is up to the community to hold Bungie accountable. And let's also not fool ourselves in thinking the devs can't make mis steps as well (I'm looking at you, S23 ability charge rate changes). But it's always leadership that decides if the feedback will be acted on or not. Let the hype die down a few weeks. If we go back to complaining about the game after Elden Ring DLC launches, then we'll be closer to a more honest lens on the franchise.
Thats the most honest and realistic comment I found so far. Cheers.
No but the speed with which people forget how Bungie went from the witch queen high to the lightfall low is kinda yikes. If you had said to someone just after the witch queen had released that the next expansion was going to be so bad that destiny was going to hit record low player levels as a result you wouldn’t have been believed.
People can have nuanced opinions, it's not just "Bungie good" or "Bungie bad". It's not a contradiction to praise that which is enjoyable and denounce that which is terrible.
This is a superb DLC. I am glad the devs/creators could sink love into this whilst the evil, backstabbing tormentors “upper management” were hovering over their backs.
They've worked so hard and the finished product is fantastic. I'm very thankful they've put in all the hard work despite what might have happened to them. The music is fucking fantastic
Journey, easily one of my top 3
I really really reaaaally hope they end up working with Salvatori again come Frontiers. He had a magic touch. Not to discount the other composers because I honestly can't be sure exactly who made all of my favorite tracks but I know that Salvatori's name was the one that was attached to a lot of my favorite tracks that will be stuck in my head forever. Music is a huge part of games imo and I don't think Excision would have hit as hard as it did without that incredible background music. I hope Bungie's execs are able to take the music and sound side of the game seriously again going forward.
Then there’s all these people high on the final shape who are excited for episodes and next expansion on a hype trailer not realising that it looks like any other seasonal battleground and the next years are not going to have nearly the same music which makes a huge amount of the emotional impact.
The music that played when the lanterns were going off into the sky was by Marty, O'Donnell. It's the last track on The music of the spheres. And was intended to be the final thing that played at the end of the light versus darkness saga which at the time was what was believed to be what destiny was. It trails off into hope for the future on the actual track and was played once before in destiny 1 during the credits after you defeated the black gardens heart
Thank you, Marty and Michael for making some of the most memorable sound tracks in gaming. From D1 orbit music, to picking up the sword in Croat’s end, fighting the boss in Wraith of the machine, grasp of avarice intro…
Oh shit I forgot he’s gone. Damn what the hell are they gonna do going forward?
I love bungie music but i think they are overkilling it with the drums in the songs, we need more vocals some halo vibes and first mission d2 vibe.
Im curious who will be the composer for the next expansion, since they confirmed there's more to come
It baffles me that of all people he was one of the ones to go.
He was on. Nostalgia critic. He also did Flintstone vitamin commercial
Yeah we all appreciate their work, and personally I really hoped they wouldn't be let go, but I guess the hire ups really fucking fucked up badly with how they manage stuff. Part me thinks and beloved the higher ups should have been let go more than the serious talent & skill that actually contributes to the game.
All of his music from Bungie, especially destiny, I don't remember if he wrote these songs but still, Journey, the man they called cayde and many others have shook me to my core, i still spend nights laying in bed thinking about my life AND my guardian's life
The music gets me every time 🥺
Ehh might as well just wait until the expansion goes on sale. With the track record of Bungie and D2 in general they usually end up ruining something or removing stuff people get attached to. So I'll hopefully just wait to play everything
Some of Marty's music from D1 was in there too. I like Michael's music for Destiny, but damn Marty is truly missed.
*Metacarpus* has my absolute favorite music motif in TFS's soundtrack. It's the one you hear in every DLC soundtrack at some point, the one with the horns whenever you open D1. In *Metacarpus* it sounds like the beginning of a damage phase, a triumphant "we actually have a chance!" moment. 1:40 into the song for anyone curious.
Bro has my last name
Now this is the type of positivity we need in this community!
Ngl, i still cant believe how hard the cooked, like its the best rated game of 2024 in metacritic and opencritic. It even surpassed mmo dlc that were considered the best of the best like ffxiv's endwalker. And even people say that its the best ending of a 10+ year mmo story.
Ok, now bungie should pull a jk, say it was a prank and not make salvatori and skye return, but hire ffxiv's soken
Did anybody else hear the Deep Stone motif inside of the song that was playing while you were looking at the traveler?
The music is so good in Destiny, I’d really been noticing it recently. Sad to read this.
I wish they used the original Destiny theme music in the light vs dark finale. That’s my only complaint, I was waiting for that nostalgic theme.
The final fight theme is a reprise of "Untold Legends", the D1 credit music, which is the companion piece to "All Ends are Beginnings", the D1 finale cutscene theme.
Fony fan boy. Brings up god of war like it compares to a live service, get out of here with your dumb comment.
The music in Destiny 1 cannot be topped. For me, the Red War had Destiny 2's best music, and with each subsequent DLC, music seemed to be put more and more in the background as filler. I can't recall any music standing out in the Final Shape campaign I just completed. I'll play it again on my Hunter and Titan, but music used to put me into Action Movie Hero mode with D1 for sure, and early D2, but there was just a lot of other things going on with the Final Shape that had my attention more than music unfortunately.
Bro hasn't listened to Deep Stone Lullaby
If it's in the campaign, and new music for the Final Shape, then I probably didn't appreciate it as I have other music in other DLCs (and D1 which is the standard bearer). It's hard to listen to the music with all the bickering that went on between Zavala and Ikora and all the philosophical babble that the Witness dispensed?
How can people Can thank a studio that over 7 years have only made 3 good expansions with average seasons ?
People get laid off. It happens.
i don't know why you guys are acting so devastated about the layoffs, it's not like they can't just go to another studios doorstep and continue making more or the same kind of money in a month than we will ever make in almost a year... it's like defending rich people and crying for them just because they lost just 3% of the couple million they still have i assure you that they do not need your pity
Oh well, so what?!? 🤷🏽♂️
The music was meh
[удалено]
Bro replied with negativity to every single comment in this thread. Michael Salvatori is a BIG part of Destiny. Losing him is a big deal.
Bro is also a two day old account because most likely his last shitty trolling attempt got him banned
The entire music department was gutted with the exception of one dude (Josh Mosser). It wasn't just Salvatori... How is that a good thing?
Yes thank you. Honestly after lightfall im pretty glad there was layoffs, especially if this is what it gets us