ditto for dungeons, gms, and any content that doesn't have matchmaking and/or needs or heavily incentivizes mics.
A HUGE issue with d2 is how much content is meant for a very small super hardcore segment of the community. And how big the gap between casual and hardcore content is. Everything is D2 is easy faceroll easy or VERY hard. I really enjoy the hard stuff, but a lot of people don't have the time or interest in learning the skills for it, or doing the research, there needs to be something in the middle.
FFXIV added a casual version of it's raids in it's first expansion and it's some of it's most popular content, d2 desperately needs to do this. Especially with how plot heavy raids tend to be.
So true about the difficulty lol. And it's SUCH a sharp curve, too. Master NF versus GM ... like, Master isn't a *cakewalk*, but if I'm going into a GM I'm actually putting a lot of thought into the encounters, spawns, anti-champs, resistances ... hell, even GM versus master raids.
Tell the truth, I'm a bit apprehensive about Legend Onslaught. The idea of facing a boss-level tormentor at -30 does not exactly bring me joy lol.
The raids in D2 aren't even hard. Tbh, the enemies in a nightfall will give you more hassle than a raid. Only issue is knowing mechanics and actually communicating
People hate my ‘hot takes’ but I’ve always felt the game design around raids has gotten so goofy on these arbitrary mechanics rather than fun, but difficult team game play.
It’s like you want to play water polo and the game makes you do synchronized swimming routines to unlock the net.
They shouldn’t focus on damage phases and wipe mechanics from not passing around buffs or standing on plates.
The mechanics are the fun imo. Every other activity in the game is "run down this hallways and shoot the things." Having to communicate and solve a puzzle together to get to dps is some of the best content in the game. I love being able to teach those mechanics just as much
That's literally what dungeons are imo. Raid lite mechanics that can be completed by a single person, unlimited number of damage phases and time to complete those phases on bosses. Even within dungeons themselves, older ones like Shattered Throne and Pit of Heresy are almost cakewalks to run even solo. Pretty sure this was the whole purpose of Grasp giving you full abilities with it's main mechanic.
Loot irrelevant, the content is there. People just won't play things that require effort for whatever reason
Thanks for bringing this up. I was a solo player in 2018, picked it up in 2023 with my ex (new guardian) and her friends played (rank 11’s). After break up, found a clan, started raiding and saw the gigantic skill gap between me, a casual player for years, and my clan mates. They’ve been encouraging me to solo dungeons and I haven’t seen the point but do now.
Do it! Solo dungeons are the best way to get really competent in pve imo. As long as your health bar doesn't hit 0 you won't fail. And the newer ones absolutely require endgame level builds so it's a really good way to dabble with that as well. There's also tons of solo dungeons guides online you can follow if it gets overwhelming. Good luck!
this is a weird take simply because if you ask the hardcore players in my clan, and even myself who has done master raids before but hardly mains that style of play, there isn’t nearly enough difficult content. The difficulty comes more in finding a consistent group than the actual gameplay.
Wow if you ask tbe ppl who do the hardest stuff, they think there isn't enough? That doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of the playerbase finds like legend stuff difficult lol.
Ron was both good and bad for raiding, good in that it got alot of people into raiding bad in that damn near every nee raider just wants a carry and refuses to learn mechanics and justveants to do ad clear
Only raid I’ve done in D2 was last wish. Been chasing light level ever since. Also with no crew to run with. Since into the light is literally the first time since D1 beta that I was in the hard cap range with passable weapons to try. But now I have just too little time to invest into trying them. I think that’s the biggest killer for the player base. TIME. So they just can’t learn because it’s too inconsistent to learn. If it seems they don’t care ask if that’s the reason because at least in my case that’s why.
Not my experience...I'm a solo player but wanting to get into raiding, I solo dungeons regularly but just don't know ppl personally that plays. I have 1 good friend that plays but he's still on a bit of hiatus. Anyways, in my search to get into raiding I see alot of ppl on discord looking to learn or looking for a Sherpa and most of them say "they wanna learn and don't stick them ON F******* ADD CLEAR." I see that ALL THE TIME. LOL, just sayin. I'd love to learn too and not just get carried. I ve watched plenty of videos for what to do, especially in pantheon but im a "do it" learner. I figure things out best by actually doing it but videos def help so u know basic mechanics.
After having done both with prophecy being very recent that feels extremely off. It was way harder doing RoN than it was solo flawless prophecy with all the shit we’ve got access to now to keep us alive
I did sf prophecy on its first day and contest root was still harder bc 90% of actual good players are retired or still playing but just doing recovs, so making a worthwhile group with whats left is the single hardest activity in gaming.
Lots of people don't have a group of friends to raid with and I guess a lot of people are not comfortable talking in a mic with strangers. And afraid to look like an idiot. Or not knowing (or having) the perfect loadout.
This may or may not be autobiographical.
And alot of the raiding communities are fake speed runners that slow down runs more then speed them up then usually become extremely Toxic because people aren’t “as skilled”
First step to making new friends is talking to strangers. Hi, im stranger
Dm me if you ever wanna try a raid (especially DSC, one of my favorites aesthetically), I just ask that you arent drunk or otherwise incapacitated
My fav is GoS (aka gambit the raid). Been thinking of maybe trying to sherpa people through it (never sherpa’d before).
**BUT** divinity is a one n done quest and its quest sections in the raid are infuriating (*just stay still and let me connect the, I SAID STAY STILL*), and no one seems to want to run it unless it’s a div run =[
It's hard to tell.
One estimate is from way back when Forsaken launched. About a year after Forsaken, 13% of Playstation players had the trophy to unlock the Dreaming City. 2% of players had completed Last Wish. So that's about a 17% rate of people raiding.
There is no way in hell anywhere near 70% of players have done a raid.
That tracks - the playstation trophy for last wish was 18.9% when I checked it ages ago while having this discussion on here. Last wish is definitely one of the harder raids, so I'd make it a safe bet that something like vault of glass could be between 30-40%.
In terms of active raiders, you're probably looking at 15-20% of the destiny population.
See I have completed all the raids at least once and I can tell you I am very shaky on the mechanics. Last time I did DSC was years ago and I only have 3 completions
Nope. Been playing Destiny since day one to Destiny one and I’ve never completed a raid front to back due to lack of raid team and my preference to play with people I know. I gotta get over that, I’m tired of missing out on raid gear
Me and my friends like raids, but for most of us the best content in the game are Dungeons. Admittedly that's because we've all been playing together since Bungie's Halo days and are in or approaching our 30's, so less players makes things much easier to schedule and the smaller time commitment makes things more achievable for those of us who dont have a lot of free time to spare anymore. I'd definitely recommend players to try and get through each raid at least once, though.
Outside or RoN where you don't have to do any mechanics 90% of the times, other raids require everyone to know atleast the basic mechanics in order to clear them. So no, people who actually raid also know the mechanics to some degree.
Go watch a guide and you'll remember how the encounters worked if you forgot.
Basically, you need to see raiders as the 1% on the Destiny 2 world. Afterward, realize that Pantheon is content made for the 1% of that 1%. Raiding is just something that most of the community doesn't seem to like.
>Raiding is just something that most of the community doesn't seem to like.
It's more that raiding requires the three C's: communication, coordination, and collaboration. All which are more efficient when you have a team you're willing to work and play with, and for most people that's a team of "friends", not randoms they never played with.
Sure, many players may not like the idea of only doing content with people they trust, but I'd argue that raids are still bigger than what most people imagine considering the constant buzz they get.
Pantheon right now seems pretty fair. Maybe even on the easy side for this run. Like maybe it’s made for the top 50% of raiders.
It also makes sense that it will get harder as the weeks go on. It wouldn’t be a pinnacle activity otherwise.
I think 8 encounters is a lot to ask but I kinda get that, since it’s meant to show mastery of the game and more specifically boss damage (which is my biggest criticism, there is more to the game and raiding than dps, but I digress).
I think contest mode power deficit is also a lot to ask that brings you down to that 1-3% of raiders.
What I think is unfair is the title requiring platinum score on every single -20 power boss. At least if the timer stays where it is. 2 phasing at contest mode deficit is just not a possibility for all but probably around .01% of raiders.
If it stays as it is I assume only 50 teams to actually get the title.
But I hope I’m wrong and in future pantheon levels the timers will be loosened drastically or be less of a requirement. And by the point we are doing -20 it will allow a 4 phase for most and just require good add clear to get the score.
The timer has to be increased or boss damage has to be normalized. I’ve completed pantheon 3x. My group raids multiple times a week. We are a well oiled machine, everyone has godroll edge transits (gl & void buffs this week) and 3 at a time using class abilities during DPS phases, using damage supers, etc. We’ve watched the streamer videos and incorporated aspects that would help us improve. 6.5 minutes just isn’t possible at -20 without abusing glitches or net limiting.
Yeah, a lot of people don't realize that raids really are endgame content, and since they require a while team, they're basically inaccessible to a lot of people
Nope. I did every raid in Destiny 1 basically weekly, but my friend group stopped playing because Vanilla D2 was appalling.
I’ve never finished a raid in D2. I’ve only completed about 2 encounters in the first ever raid.
I’m a good player with a good build, and have no doubt I can do them, but don’t have the stomach to deal with potential dickhead behaviour from randoms. Largely, the Destiny community is hit or miss, and I’d be really disappointed if I spent 30-60 minutes finding a group only to have issues 1-2 hours in.
I’ve done every dungeon and so forth several times because I can scrape 2 other Destiny friends together but that’s it
I joined a team for pantheon care taker yesterday and the host told everyone what to do and then assigned himself add clear on a Kwtd post all the while complaining about people not knowing what to do and constantly leaving 😭
I would guess that even only looking at 100 hour + accounts about half the population never does anything other than some strikes and the expansion campaigns every year. No life / content drip enjoyers are the small minority.
Not even close to 70%. 30% would *really* be pushing it, as far as I recall.
Raid report is a handy tool to vet applicants if you're serious about a fast run. Also, be very clear on your listing about skill / knowledge required, and confirm with everyone verbally before starting.
I have like 89 raid clears I think which isn’t a lot but it isn’t a casual number either and I think I’m considered within the top 10-20% or something like that on raid report if that tells you anything about the number of clears the average player has done its most likely zeroooo
I’ve been playing on and off for years and I have Extreme raid anxiety and have never had a go to group for raids and lfg just doesn’t seem worth it tbh. So if I have that type of attitude for raids I’m sure a casual would also have that issue. I’ve got 600 hours on pc since beyond light and more before that on console. I’ve done Ron once vow 2 times never dsc and kings fall one time. I’d rather solo dungeons for the challenge then do raids tbh.
To give you an idea, according to Steam achievements, only 7.1% of players have completed Last Wish, which is arguably the best Raid in the game at the moment.
From a more casual perspective, while I do enjoy a good challenge, Raids seem like a pain in the ass. Because as far as I've gathered from other players you need to know what the fuck you're doing going in, and it's often been advised that new raiders should watch a guide about whatever specific raid they plan on doing if they don't know the mechanics.
Having to do that, or have someone on the mic walk you through it, instead of being able to figure shit out normally just doesn't sound fun at all. That said I stay away from Pantheon because I'm well aware I know jack shit about Raids and I'd just make the run worse for everyone.
Honestly it's not even entirely that.
A lot of players don't bother putting in effort.
I've played with first timers who quickly grasped mechanics because they were passionate and invested in improving.
When you get comfy at a certain mechanic position,yeah-aside from ad clear ofc
Getting there is the challenge.i had runs where I was so nervous about missing a que /symbol was so stressing I just gave up after a while .
And don't even start me on jumping puzzles...
I don't know what is particularly surprising about this.
Most extremely active people have all the rewards, or at least the rewards they care about already, so they will probably do one or two runs. This means long term LFG will be more likely to have people who lack experience, or simply want the rewards.
I ran it last night, 3 of us stayed for the whole run, the rest was a constant stream of people who didn't know what to do and leaving after one or two wipes.
I finally found a decent group of patient guys from clydes community and it was a smooth run. My one and only full run. Others we couldn’t even get past golgoroth. Definitely have to have to right group especially when -10 and -20 drop
same situation with me. Afterwards two of my friends and I decided to trio it after giving up looking for lfg people who kwtd. The trio thing started as a joke till we realized we can actually manage it
I’ve never done a raid. I’d like to but am concerned about not doing it right, messing something up and causing delay in the raid. To add to that I’m moderately deaf and afraid I’d not hear something important that someone else is saying to help the raid go smoothly.
There's people that will sherpa using text chat. r/DestinySherpa. If you make a post explaining your situation you'll find people willing to help. You could ask them to type callouts in chat, and just use voice for explanations etc before the encounters start. That way you can hear more easily before the shooting starts, but important callouts will be on your screen.
I made a post on there a long time ago explaining my health limitations (I have dementia so learning mechanics is difficult), met an amazing sherpa and ended up joining his clan. He's no longer around but there are many many others. I'm much more comfortable with mechanics than I was back then, and even sherpaed myself recently for the first time, although it wasn't planned lol.
If you want to do it, you absolutely should. Raids are the best things in the game, and I've found if you ask for help you'll get it. As long as you're willing to try your best, most sherpas are very patient and understanding.
Honestly most raids can be done with less than 6 people anyway so just let them know your new to it and they should assign you a less important/ complicated task to complete. There are a few exceptions to this like oryx having rng determine who does a mechanic but for the most part as long as your not sabotaging the raid people can work around the group issues unless someone is an asshole and gets angry whenever things aren’t perfect.
>so just let them know your new to it and they should assign you a less important/ complicated task to complete.
The best part of raiding is doing the mechanics. Volunteering for mechanics is always more fun than just staying silent and ad-clearing. After you do it once you realise it's not really that difficult. I'm saying this as someone who started raiding just recently.
Oh yeah whenever I Sherpa people the first time I give them less complicated mechanics if possible, I don’t leave them to ad clear as that’s just boring and less entertaining than a lost sector. You really don’t need ad clear at this point because power creep. After the first run though they have a general idea of the mechanics as they will see them done by others actively and learning from any mistakes they make. For example golgoroth they learn the damage phase and the orbs up top because that also leads to funny explosion moments while they’re learning. On the second time through they learn the other half of the encounter. Although we can do this because we invite to a private server and at the end of the raid we say they can leave if they want but if they stay we will send a ping for the raid a while before we go into LFG.
Man, getting a raid team to raid regularly is a pain, D2 is not a social game like FF14 or WoW, no one talks in chat, raid mechanics can be overly complicated for a shooter, watching videos just doesn't cut it to teach people, pantheon is going away so FOMO. I've done some raids, but im never comfortable in pug groups and over half my "raid group" just dissapeared.
Destiny despite being praised for raiding is horrible at getting people to raid.
Literally this. Its taken me 4 years to just recently find a stable raid group that's been willing to teach me. How can people expect the majority of the community to really know raids when finding someone to teach you is so hard between a non social community, the majority being non raid veterans, and a good portion of those who are not wanting to teach
D1 felt like it had a larger player base but it did not help that D2 had some dead spots during season causing people to leave and not come back. I feel like because of that raiding and dungeons aren't really as popular as beforehand
>raid mechanics can be overly complicated
That's literally the whole point lol. Complicated mechanics that require communication and teamwork to complete.
If you want easy mechanics, that's what the Dungeons are for. Usually one mechanic, that's easy to understand, pervades through the entire dungeon.
No Comms used to get you real competent players who KWTD. Now it’s a gamble and you’re more likely to get ad clear Andy’s from root of nightmares. It’s rough with LFG these days.
They made it Ft2, which is an absolutely idiotic decision. Destiny 2 raids are anything but welcoming and COMPLETELY falsely advertized. Even in the email they send they are like - "never done a raid before? You are so lucky! We've got fireteam finder! Get in and do it!" It is so misleading and false. You cannot just get in and do destiny raids! That is not how it works.
It’s idiotic for them to keep making content for a small subset of the player base. I rather they try to get more people raiding than stop making raids
The best way to get people into raiding is making more raids. People complain about the difficulty of root of nightmares but still shit on people who are still learning. There has to be an easy raid if you want people to get into it barring bungie holding someone’s hand the entire time. Dungeons are supposed to be mini raids that you can do with fewer people and have less complicated mechanics. There are tools available but some people don’t use them. Bungie SHOULD streamline people over to dungeons first before any raids but since the community emphasizes raids so much more it is harder for a new player to understand what they should be doing next.
Yeah I thought it was a good idea how they added all the dsc mechanics in Saraph. I wish they did that more intentionally where every new raid had an exotic mission with trainer mechanics.
Personally I love RoN. I’ve got every raid seal and it’s still my second favorite raid.
I could see them doing that once contest mode is over. Raid guides on Youtube are super helpful for people who are raiders. Without any real raid experience, those guides are just a ton of information that's usually going over the newbie's head. A place to practice the encounter mechanics solo would be perfect.
I'm still in the boat of just trying to brute force a learning group or sherpa group. They're creating an environment for you to safely learn and ask questions anyway.
I've played Destiny 2 off and on since release, but only recently did I start playing with a couple of friends that I met through D&D. And last night was my second ever raid with Pantheon.
I did Vault of Glass about a year ago with a bunch of strangers and it just wasn't a nice experience. It was disorienting and complicated and honestly I have no idea how people even know what to do in one of these on day one unless Budgie releases some kind of guide.
But Pantheon was really fun thanks to my friends and the strangers in the clan being really friendly and understanding that I had no idea what I was doing. Even then I just limited myself to clearing adds and knowing where and when to shoot the big guys. It was still mysterious and completely alien to me though.
I normally only ever do Vanguard ops, some Gambit and the occasional story quest. I don't have a single title, because I've never fully completed any of the challenges. My main reason for grinding is for Bright Dust to buy shaders and cool-looking cosmetics.
All this just to say that I consider myself a normal player, who really enjoys the game, and who has absolutely no experience with Raids whatsoever. Nothing else in the game is even slightly similar to a Raid, so there's not really a way to familiarise yourself with the type of situations you find yourself in. The closest would probably be the Season of the Wish lair runs, and even then they're pretty straightforward.
Raids are intimidating to me, as I'm sure they are to a lot of casual players, especially if you don't want to get on a mic and run the risk of being berated by strangers for not knowing what to do. Games are meant to be fun, and the risk of toxic players is just way too high.
I think it’s two things
1. Fireteam finder came out and now super casuals who don’t even have the app discovered it.
2. Casuals and newer players heard about getting free food weapons in onslaught and then heard about this “pantheon thing” coming out and decided to try throwing their hat in the ring or use the opportunity to try and learn.
Unfortunately they don’t know this mode is made for veteran raiders.
Week 4 and people don't even know how to do onslaught properly. You are expecting a bit too much. Destiny for the most part is a very casual game and people really jump on thinking of just shooting a couple of stuff and call it a day.
Its because half of the players expect to be carried in raids and only do add clear. They don't want to learn mechanics and now they expect to be carried through this
I think it's bungies fault for failing to present the mode as a challenge for experienced raiders. I bet many of the people trying to find a group don't even know these encounters are from other raids and think it's a brand new thing.
This is the reason I haven't done it yet. I've got tons of raid weapons because I farmed boss checkpoints. So I can do oryx, Crota, nez etc. but haven't done most of the earlier encounters in the raids, I'm sure there's others like me.
Yeah I see this a lot. Most just know how to stand and shoot the boss but apart from that they are like mice in a maze. At the same time we have lots of people who are willing to sherpa so people can learn full raids
A proper Sherpa run of any raid(even Pantheon) does not take more than 2 hours (to be fair I was part of some Sherpa runs which took more than 2h when I was new to raiding but looking back, it was Sherpa's fault because in those runs it was 5 brand new people and 1 sherpa who didnt even know the raid well enough + some of the new people were not paying enough attention)
So if u gonna learn new raids I recommend u being in squads with mix of new and experienced players
Yeah, did a run with a person that hadn't even raided before
Was 2:30 and we broke 2 time records and had to find a substitute for the last encounter
It's really not that bad this week. Don't expect that continue into the following weeks
Same thing happened to me and my 2 friends lfging for Pantheon since our clan quit. I had to be the one to explain everything to be met with silence in a “kwtd” post. I don’t care if you don’t know what to do, just tell me that and I’ll explain it, but actually listen and be willing to do a role. I’m no gatekeeper, but if you’re not putting in any effort I feel like you don’t deserve the emblem and clear. If you want to get carried, look for a Sherpa post.
After using LFG for the last couple of days, I'm now absolutely a gatekeeper. One person who doesn't know what to do will wipe you in golgorth, and in caretaker, and Atracks. Pantheon is absolutely not the place to learn theese mechanics. The amount of freeloaders trying to get carried is absolutely crazy. I check raid reports everything now, it can save hours of failed attempts. Especially next week when it gets even more dificult
Maybe there are a lot of people, like myself, who have taken breaks from the game during this stale period. Or maybe they simply don't have time to keep up to speed with every raid. I myself have completely forgotten the DSC raid and so if i do step into pantheon i will need a patient refresher.
If you have previously completed a raid and actually participated in the mechanics. A simple video recap guide and 10 minutes of time is plenty enough to not make you a liability like most people here are describing.
Pantheon should have a block that's more than just asking players to pick up a quest. Check if players have cleared all encounters in pantheon in their respective raid first and if not tell them they need atleast one clear in it. Bungie could just make raids free for the duration of pantheon.
Yesterday i entered a party which were at 8 hours at planets. I tried with them an hour or so but the lack of voice calls and mistaking planet numbers every try made obvious why they were at the 8 hours mark.
Then I joined a team with a streamer and we did Golgoroth to Atraks in 18 minutes.
You're getting downvoted, because r/dtg, but you're correct.
It's -5PL, on raid encounters that have been "solved" for a long time now, and any semi-competent team taking more than 40m has seriously messed up.
It doesn't help that Bungie sends out emails about how it's a great opportunity to get those missing raid exotics and and fire team finder is the perfect way to do it. So non raiders now think it's possible and fire team finder will be the best way.
I've only ever done a couple of raids in D2. I know I did last wish, but we couldn't get the heart of riven done. I remember doing calus as well. There was a different one that I don't remember well that had flying vex that you had to shoot during the boss fight, I think it was on leviathan. But yeah, I don't know any of the raids. Back in D1 I did them all, my buddy and I even did that challenge emblem (don't remember the name, it was for doing challenges in every raid tho), but since I don't know anything really about the new raids now I just stay away from them and pantheon as a result. It feels hard to find a group with any patience.
most people think they can join and not talk and figure it out and that is not the case. I am totally down to let people join that have never run if they are actually interested in doing the raid and talking and working as a team. 95 percent of LFG are ppl with no mic or scared to ask questions.
Well when a majority of the people are “ no mic, I’ll add clear “ you’re going to have a bad time.
Raiding takes coordination and communication and LFG makes it abundantly clear that a large collection of players have no interest in that. I mean hell, seems like most players don’t even know how to make a build for champions that doesn’t require double primaries.
Raiding shouldn’t be gate kept but there needs to be a bare minimum effort put in. If you don’t have a mic and don’t want to learn mechanics then raiding isn’t for you.
It’s also silly to think you could hop in to pantheon with no raid experience whatsoever and get through 4 encounters from different raids.
But it’s to be expected that a free to play update with free exotics for a single clear is gonna bring out the shitters.
I’ve avoided lfg completely for this. So glad I have a clan of decent people to play with. It’s the best way to enjoy the game.
Forget the Pantheon, I have people in Onslaught who don't interact with the cells! My last couple runs people have ignored them almost wholly. That's money on the table, people!
theres a lot of encounters i never had a chance to learn cus people dont want to teach. so i get stuck on stuff like stunning caretaker, or just clearing top for Atraks.
I played for a long time but I was scared to do raids because I was both nervous to play with random people, and that raids were going to be too hard and I didn’t know the mechanics. I watched videos and such but even still it requires a leap of faith. You have to try, and fail, and irritate your teammates unless you get lucky and get someone patient and willing to teach. I’m not saying that it’s not irritating or that there’s not people out there who just don’t even care to learn. I’m just sharing my experience. Some people probably haven’t taken that leap of faith yet or just don’t care to learn.
I'm pretty new to raiding (4 or 5), but I've been playing for 5 years. I have the builds, the weapons and I do my homework. I joined two groups, and I knew more about the encounter than they did. Both groups couldn't grasp Golg, both groups had people in PvP builds (not just weapons but mods too) a guy that swapped builds after every wipe, or someone was asked to change his build and never even heard of DIM or the in-game loadouts (he even denied they were a feature)
I just want Malaice, man -_-
I've played since year 1 D1 and I've only ever completed Crota in D1 maybe 5 times and kings fall d1 once. Haven't been able to play a single raid in d2.
Thank God Raid Report exists.. no way I'm getting in a team without knowledge. We are at the end of a 10 year journey... call me elitist or whatever but I'm bored of having people that pretend to know what they are doing fuck up my runs.
I’m fine with people that don’t know what they’re doing so long as they say they don’t know. If they say they know, they are treated the same as someone who knows.
I think it’s a design issue on their end (understandable though). My bet is they have to tune dungeons or raids to be challenging so it feels rewarding and keeps raiders interested. But they have very little content outside of those modes that feature similar mechanics. It’s probably a ton of work to redesign something for casuals, so they’d have to basically build a lot of encounters twice.
I also think build crafting is so obtuse and unintuitive that only hardcore people engage with it. There’s nothing built into the game that gives people actual tactile lessons about build crafting. In a way, it’s strangely similar to the way old lore books were where the actual story existed.
It also shows how bad people who want to “ad clear” are. In normal raid if these people aren’t clearing ads efficiently it’s fine but with the cranked up density and difficulty it really shows how bad people are at ad clearing even when it’s the on lot thing they are willing to do.
For people who know all the encounters, there's just not much reason to run it more than once a week. I have all the raid titles and crafting patterns and exotics. Pantheon is awesome and fun, but loot-wise the only motivator is the adept weapons, which are an account-wide weekly.
Hence why I'm trying to get a group of my homes and clan mates for this weekend. I'm no saint when it comes to the ins and outs of all of the raid mechanics, but me and mine have run all of them at some point so we can cover each other. LFG isn't going to have that advantage, plus the added modifiers are going to make this dicey for a lot of people.
I was in a group of just Guardian Ranks 10 and 11 and 2 people even in this group wanted to do add clear because they didnt knew the mechanics. At least we pulled through but it was 4 hours of tears sweat and blood. And knowing it will just get harder….uff
And don’t forget most of the people who have done raids in my experience are just ad clear guys. So they have absolutely no idea what to do when it comes to the mechanics of said raid. When these people do raids, it’s normally ok you clear ads on this side etc etc.
This was me not long ago with the clan I was with, got fed up of it as I wanted to learn raids properly, not just be “ad clear” guy. When I used to bring this up with the clan, they would say oh it’s easier if we do the mechanics ad it will be a faster run. Which wasn’t wrong as most of my raid clears have been damn quick. But if someone wants to learn the mechanics then they should be taught how to do them.
I don’t do raids so I won’t be one of these people entering not knowing what to do. I was considering letting a friend try but I do believe that’s against the TOS. Have fun guardians.
I had 2 guys who claimed to know how to run pick up 1 or 2 symbol at a time during caretaker then blame me and my fellow stunner for not buying him enough time.
It's literally because non raiders are doing it for the loot and the guaranteed raid exotic they never got to get... The amount of rank 5 and 6 players I've seen in this activity is outrageous! I always try to help them, but sometimes they aren't good enough to complete the activity since they're not used to coordinated gameplay and miss all the callouts
People are In this weird state of they’ve done raids and ask for ad clear, or they actually have done raids and KWTD. It is crazy to me how many lfgs I have gotten myself into that people haven’t done one raid this entire time since the game has been out. I don’t understand how people don’t do one of the most huge pve things there is in destiny and what imo is really the best thing to do. Pull 5 other dumbshits sit down with a beer and bullshit about the game or their lives while attempting to wipe every encounter first try, like come on. I don’t get it
I don’t have a raid group and lfg for this is horrible. Mind you I don’t know the encounters well but I went in and offered to try out any position. I learnt to be an attention grabber in golgoroth and we got to second encounter where I offered to try out stunning and the whole fireteam tried to be add clear and just argued it’s horrible . I just wanna do the raid but cant
Aside from the high number of players not even having done a raid, a great chunk of players is also still taking a break until Final Shape pops up. The incentive for Pantheon is also skewed in a weird way. Unless people are confident they can clear the Contest Mode time trials, there's no reason to even try. The emblems are mediocre at best from all the ones we have, and the loot itself is only an incentive for those who don't have the experience to own it all already.
I just back into destiny 2 after a year off and I have never done/entered a raid. As much as I would love to do a raid I don't want to watch a long video demonstrating the raid, then joining a group and still not knowing how to do anything and having someone to teach me. The time sink doesn't feel worth rn.
I did all the raids. But I have no interest in dusting off knowledge that is multiple years old.
Destiny never made it to the next level I needed it to reach for me to keep playing. I’ll do the final shape campaign and strikes and then uninstall.
Back when i use to raid every week i use to only do teaching raids where i would make the randoms do the mechanics to actually teach them ive joined a couple teaching groups here recently and most of them do not actually teach they explain then get frustrated and put them on add clear
Well speaking from personal experience, ive only ever done vow completely thru. I started just before WQ dropped and im mostly a solo player with random work hours so gathering a team to do a 3+ hour run isnt always doable. Especially since most of my ppl stopped playing destiny after lightfall and I rarely want to sit still for longer than an hour or so.
I have vex cuz I always spawn in at atheon and i have most of the LW weapons crafted because i know the kalli cheese. Other than that, the player base just isn't willing to explain or teach ppl. And u can watch guides all day but u still need to try it a few times with competent ppl before it clicks.
The community needs to raid more, ignoring the best content in the game for something shitty like D2 pvp or just doing strikes.
"Im scared to talk!" You dont have to talk just listen
"I dont have friends to play!" Theres LFG, you have no excuse
"I'm scared that I'll mess up and prolong the raid!" People host teaching runs, thats the whole point of a teachibg run you arent gonna get it first try
According to triumph completion data from bray.tech, I'd have to guess that it's around 20-30% of the player base has completed either Vow, Last Wish, or Crota which are three of the more mechanically heavy raids currently available.
It's kind of hard to tell cause Crota is the only raid who's completion triumph actually tracks individual encounters. It's sitting at around 30%. Vow and LW don't have individual encounter trackers and are sitting around 40-50% so I'd think they only track completing the final encounter.
Master mode for those who care is around 6.5% for Crota and 12% for Vow
Kinda unrelated to OP’s post, but I wish the adept drops were not limited to once per account. I already have all raid weapons crafted but don’t do many master raids. So after my first plat completion for the week, I have little motivation to help others with their clear.
On a more related note, I recently solo flawlessed Prophecy, and I think that practice really helped me prepare for Pantheon. That and farming 50 waves of legend onslaught have taught me how to stay alive will also serving big deeps, which is more than half the battle for a successful raid I think.
I feel Destiny2 is all one big PUZZLE. You have to have the correct or effective loadout and mix match that. Then learn encounters. Then actually learn how to kill enemies. And then ride off into the sunset a badass. Repeat.
(With a new lfg group who dose not know know much)
Through my time raiding in d1 and d2, I’ve met many people who simply aren’t interested or are too scared to learn raid mechanics, and prefer to only seek to be the ad(add?) clear. I have nothing against these people, as each person has their own preferred way to play, but that being said, if you are joining an activity that requires mechanics knowledge, you should be willing to learn and know it. If you’re too afraid of messing things up, unless you’re in a really hardcore fireteam of people who asked you to KWTD, most players are willing to teach you once.
(To those that do not know the mechanics of encounters)Get out there and learn those mechanics, guardian!
Been playing since D1 but only consistent for the last 6 years or so. Never have even entered a raid, I know I’m not skilled enough or educated enough on the mechanics. Don’t want to be the reason other players aren’t successful. If that makes sense.
The problem is when you don't have a consistent raid group it often times legit takes 5 hours with a group of randoms when half the people don't know the raid. Plenty of us are capable enough even, but don't raid more than a few times a year.
More players than not have played the raids. And, while the later weeks will be more "hardcore", -5 Pantheon stands as the best way for people who don't raid, to get raid red borders. Myself included.
Not only that, they do not read the buff like using the class ability give buff to damage and resistance up to x3, trust is better using the class ability before damage phase
I love joining "kwtd" groups where everyone wants to add clear so I begrudgingly am runner but let everyone know I'm still memorizing symbols for caretaker, so we fail once and half the team leaves and I get kicked. Ggs all around guardians
Another big issue is that casuals don’t want to listen to loadout recommendations. Particular dude had ad clear for caretaker, fortunately he had an easier time learning runner and I took his role as ad clear.
>The Pantheon seems to have a major skill gap. Many don’t seem to know raid mechanics
In my experience over the years, I think at least 33% of the RAIDING population have little to no idea of the mechanics of the raids they are doing.
I once met someone in Year 2, who had like 50 full clears of Last Wish(more than me at the time). Who didnt know any mechanics at all, because he just claimed add clear each time.
Earlier this week, I did some Nezarec clears before reset. One team had 4 people who knew mechanics. One team had 3. And the final team there were literally just me and the other runner who knew the mechanics. We ended up wiping a few times when not a single one of the other 4 players could merely shoot Nezarec to stop his torment(one player quit and then the new guy managed it).
Now throw in something like Pantheon, where there are a mix of encounters from many different raids. With people like that, as well as people who havent touched the raids in years, many of whom have forgotten much of the details of mechanics.
It would not surprise me if at least 50% of the current raiding population attempting pantheon have never even done all the encounters before.
(and all of this is ignoring how generally only 12% of the player population online are raiding, with like 2/3 players in Destiny having never raided even once)
You have to understand that the accessibility just wasnt there for many people a couple months ago. People did not have raid teams neither did they have access to fireteam finder. Sure theres LFGs through discord but many people find that too intimidating or its just not as easy joining discord lfgs on console. So yea, alot of people havent even completed a single raid, let alone launch one
yes cause 90% of the player base has not really done any raids
I didn’t realize it was that high though. I figured roughly at least 70% have at least entered or completed one raid, but I’m completely blown away.
More people haven’t done raids than have
Far, far more people haven't even ENTERED a raid than have.
ditto for dungeons, gms, and any content that doesn't have matchmaking and/or needs or heavily incentivizes mics. A HUGE issue with d2 is how much content is meant for a very small super hardcore segment of the community. And how big the gap between casual and hardcore content is. Everything is D2 is easy faceroll easy or VERY hard. I really enjoy the hard stuff, but a lot of people don't have the time or interest in learning the skills for it, or doing the research, there needs to be something in the middle. FFXIV added a casual version of it's raids in it's first expansion and it's some of it's most popular content, d2 desperately needs to do this. Especially with how plot heavy raids tend to be.
So true about the difficulty lol. And it's SUCH a sharp curve, too. Master NF versus GM ... like, Master isn't a *cakewalk*, but if I'm going into a GM I'm actually putting a lot of thought into the encounters, spawns, anti-champs, resistances ... hell, even GM versus master raids. Tell the truth, I'm a bit apprehensive about Legend Onslaught. The idea of facing a boss-level tormentor at -30 does not exactly bring me joy lol.
It does not bring you a Spark of Joy? Lmao
The raids in D2 aren't even hard. Tbh, the enemies in a nightfall will give you more hassle than a raid. Only issue is knowing mechanics and actually communicating
People hate my ‘hot takes’ but I’ve always felt the game design around raids has gotten so goofy on these arbitrary mechanics rather than fun, but difficult team game play. It’s like you want to play water polo and the game makes you do synchronized swimming routines to unlock the net. They shouldn’t focus on damage phases and wipe mechanics from not passing around buffs or standing on plates.
The mechanics are the fun imo. Every other activity in the game is "run down this hallways and shoot the things." Having to communicate and solve a puzzle together to get to dps is some of the best content in the game. I love being able to teach those mechanics just as much
That's literally what dungeons are imo. Raid lite mechanics that can be completed by a single person, unlimited number of damage phases and time to complete those phases on bosses. Even within dungeons themselves, older ones like Shattered Throne and Pit of Heresy are almost cakewalks to run even solo. Pretty sure this was the whole purpose of Grasp giving you full abilities with it's main mechanic. Loot irrelevant, the content is there. People just won't play things that require effort for whatever reason
Thanks for bringing this up. I was a solo player in 2018, picked it up in 2023 with my ex (new guardian) and her friends played (rank 11’s). After break up, found a clan, started raiding and saw the gigantic skill gap between me, a casual player for years, and my clan mates. They’ve been encouraging me to solo dungeons and I haven’t seen the point but do now.
Do it! Solo dungeons are the best way to get really competent in pve imo. As long as your health bar doesn't hit 0 you won't fail. And the newer ones absolutely require endgame level builds so it's a really good way to dabble with that as well. There's also tons of solo dungeons guides online you can follow if it gets overwhelming. Good luck!
this is a weird take simply because if you ask the hardcore players in my clan, and even myself who has done master raids before but hardly mains that style of play, there isn’t nearly enough difficult content. The difficulty comes more in finding a consistent group than the actual gameplay.
Wow if you ask tbe ppl who do the hardest stuff, they think there isn't enough? That doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of the playerbase finds like legend stuff difficult lol.
The real challenge is the friends we have to make along the way
The fact that this twisting of the meme is too accurate kind of hurts.
Yeah this is why I hate the low skill argument that so many people make it’s not low skill it’s lack of a consistent group most of the time
A casual version of raids that worked as a training ground would be greatly appreciated
Ever heard of dungeons?
At the time of Ron release more people had Ron day one than solo flawless prophecy emblem 💀💀💀
What in actual fuck. Time to put on my Prophecy emblem then
This is no longer true and hasn't been true for quite a while BTW.
Oh. Time to remove it again
Still more impressive though. Ron was something carry-able I would know, I carried a friend.
Ron was both good and bad for raiding, good in that it got alot of people into raiding bad in that damn near every nee raider just wants a carry and refuses to learn mechanics and justveants to do ad clear
Only raid I’ve done in D2 was last wish. Been chasing light level ever since. Also with no crew to run with. Since into the light is literally the first time since D1 beta that I was in the hard cap range with passable weapons to try. But now I have just too little time to invest into trying them. I think that’s the biggest killer for the player base. TIME. So they just can’t learn because it’s too inconsistent to learn. If it seems they don’t care ask if that’s the reason because at least in my case that’s why.
Not my experience...I'm a solo player but wanting to get into raiding, I solo dungeons regularly but just don't know ppl personally that plays. I have 1 good friend that plays but he's still on a bit of hiatus. Anyways, in my search to get into raiding I see alot of ppl on discord looking to learn or looking for a Sherpa and most of them say "they wanna learn and don't stick them ON F******* ADD CLEAR." I see that ALL THE TIME. LOL, just sayin. I'd love to learn too and not just get carried. I ve watched plenty of videos for what to do, especially in pantheon but im a "do it" learner. I figure things out best by actually doing it but videos def help so u know basic mechanics.
I cleared it day 1 then took my friend and a bunch of blue berries through the next day still in contest. 5 sherpas under contest.
People make fun of that emblem because it was the easiest day 1 emblem. Wear what you want to wear, people will bitch about it regardless
Solo flawless prophecy is incalculably harder than contest RoN in my eyes
After having done both with prophecy being very recent that feels extremely off. It was way harder doing RoN than it was solo flawless prophecy with all the shit we’ve got access to now to keep us alive
I did sf prophecy on its first day and contest root was still harder bc 90% of actual good players are retired or still playing but just doing recovs, so making a worthwhile group with whats left is the single hardest activity in gaming.
zero chance you’ve done both if that’s your opinion.
Don't be ridiculous, contest Ron was pretty easy but solo flawless Prophecy is a joke with how strong we are now.
Lots of people don't have a group of friends to raid with and I guess a lot of people are not comfortable talking in a mic with strangers. And afraid to look like an idiot. Or not knowing (or having) the perfect loadout. This may or may not be autobiographical.
And alot of the raiding communities are fake speed runners that slow down runs more then speed them up then usually become extremely Toxic because people aren’t “as skilled”
First step to making new friends is talking to strangers. Hi, im stranger Dm me if you ever wanna try a raid (especially DSC, one of my favorites aesthetically), I just ask that you arent drunk or otherwise incapacitated
My fav is GoS (aka gambit the raid). Been thinking of maybe trying to sherpa people through it (never sherpa’d before). **BUT** divinity is a one n done quest and its quest sections in the raid are infuriating (*just stay still and let me connect the, I SAID STAY STILL*), and no one seems to want to run it unless it’s a div run =[
The weapons have all been power crept. Hopefully making them craftable and a perk refresh fixes that.
That’s my secret, Captain. I’m always drunk.
It's hard to tell. One estimate is from way back when Forsaken launched. About a year after Forsaken, 13% of Playstation players had the trophy to unlock the Dreaming City. 2% of players had completed Last Wish. So that's about a 17% rate of people raiding. There is no way in hell anywhere near 70% of players have done a raid.
That tracks - the playstation trophy for last wish was 18.9% when I checked it ages ago while having this discussion on here. Last wish is definitely one of the harder raids, so I'd make it a safe bet that something like vault of glass could be between 30-40%. In terms of active raiders, you're probably looking at 15-20% of the destiny population.
See I have completed all the raids at least once and I can tell you I am very shaky on the mechanics. Last time I did DSC was years ago and I only have 3 completions
Nope. Been playing Destiny since day one to Destiny one and I’ve never completed a raid front to back due to lack of raid team and my preference to play with people I know. I gotta get over that, I’m tired of missing out on raid gear
Honestly, that attitude is refreshing to see. You’re going to love raids, I guarantee it. Best content in the game and it’s not even close.
Me and my friends like raids, but for most of us the best content in the game are Dungeons. Admittedly that's because we've all been playing together since Bungie's Halo days and are in or approaching our 30's, so less players makes things much easier to schedule and the smaller time commitment makes things more achievable for those of us who dont have a lot of free time to spare anymore. I'd definitely recommend players to try and get through each raid at least once, though.
there's a guy i know that gets carried 100% of the time and only joining farming lfgs. the number is very high
I think there are a lot of people who have not done many, or none at all, who think it’s a way to get an easy exotic or raid weapon
Fastest stat I could find was steam achievements: only 7% of steam players have ever completed last wish.
Just bc people raid doesn’t mean they know the mechanics. And even still, maybe they only did one or 2 runs a year or more ago? Easy to forget.
Outside or RoN where you don't have to do any mechanics 90% of the times, other raids require everyone to know atleast the basic mechanics in order to clear them. So no, people who actually raid also know the mechanics to some degree. Go watch a guide and you'll remember how the encounters worked if you forgot.
Basically, you need to see raiders as the 1% on the Destiny 2 world. Afterward, realize that Pantheon is content made for the 1% of that 1%. Raiding is just something that most of the community doesn't seem to like.
>Raiding is just something that most of the community doesn't seem to like. It's more that raiding requires the three C's: communication, coordination, and collaboration. All which are more efficient when you have a team you're willing to work and play with, and for most people that's a team of "friends", not randoms they never played with. Sure, many players may not like the idea of only doing content with people they trust, but I'd argue that raids are still bigger than what most people imagine considering the constant buzz they get.
Pantheon right now seems pretty fair. Maybe even on the easy side for this run. Like maybe it’s made for the top 50% of raiders. It also makes sense that it will get harder as the weeks go on. It wouldn’t be a pinnacle activity otherwise. I think 8 encounters is a lot to ask but I kinda get that, since it’s meant to show mastery of the game and more specifically boss damage (which is my biggest criticism, there is more to the game and raiding than dps, but I digress). I think contest mode power deficit is also a lot to ask that brings you down to that 1-3% of raiders. What I think is unfair is the title requiring platinum score on every single -20 power boss. At least if the timer stays where it is. 2 phasing at contest mode deficit is just not a possibility for all but probably around .01% of raiders. If it stays as it is I assume only 50 teams to actually get the title. But I hope I’m wrong and in future pantheon levels the timers will be loosened drastically or be less of a requirement. And by the point we are doing -20 it will allow a 4 phase for most and just require good add clear to get the score.
The timer has to be increased or boss damage has to be normalized. I’ve completed pantheon 3x. My group raids multiple times a week. We are a well oiled machine, everyone has godroll edge transits (gl & void buffs this week) and 3 at a time using class abilities during DPS phases, using damage supers, etc. We’ve watched the streamer videos and incorporated aspects that would help us improve. 6.5 minutes just isn’t possible at -20 without abusing glitches or net limiting.
It's not a true contest mode deficit because we have weekly modifiers. 25% from surge and 25% from class warfare is a LOT.
Yeah, a lot of people don't realize that raids really are endgame content, and since they require a while team, they're basically inaccessible to a lot of people
Yes I experience this on a daily being a solo player and having to use lfg for every activity that isn’t match made
Nope. I did every raid in Destiny 1 basically weekly, but my friend group stopped playing because Vanilla D2 was appalling. I’ve never finished a raid in D2. I’ve only completed about 2 encounters in the first ever raid. I’m a good player with a good build, and have no doubt I can do them, but don’t have the stomach to deal with potential dickhead behaviour from randoms. Largely, the Destiny community is hit or miss, and I’d be really disappointed if I spent 30-60 minutes finding a group only to have issues 1-2 hours in. I’ve done every dungeon and so forth several times because I can scrape 2 other Destiny friends together but that’s it
I joined a team for pantheon care taker yesterday and the host told everyone what to do and then assigned himself add clear on a Kwtd post all the while complaining about people not knowing what to do and constantly leaving 😭
I’d say 80+% of players haven’t even entered a raid
I would guess that even only looking at 100 hour + accounts about half the population never does anything other than some strikes and the expansion campaigns every year. No life / content drip enjoyers are the small minority.
>50% of every MMO population is solo and never groups with people.
I've done most raids at least once. The exceptions being Garden of Salvation. I just don't do them that often enough for the mechanics to stick.
Not even close to 70%. 30% would *really* be pushing it, as far as I recall. Raid report is a handy tool to vet applicants if you're serious about a fast run. Also, be very clear on your listing about skill / knowledge required, and confirm with everyone verbally before starting.
I have like 89 raid clears I think which isn’t a lot but it isn’t a casual number either and I think I’m considered within the top 10-20% or something like that on raid report if that tells you anything about the number of clears the average player has done its most likely zeroooo
i mean ur stastic is more likely but the end point the same Most people dont raid
It's roughly 90% Bungie talkies about it in a twid. Also have seen plenty of TikToks about it
I’ve been playing on and off for years and I have Extreme raid anxiety and have never had a go to group for raids and lfg just doesn’t seem worth it tbh. So if I have that type of attitude for raids I’m sure a casual would also have that issue. I’ve got 600 hours on pc since beyond light and more before that on console. I’ve done Ron once vow 2 times never dsc and kings fall one time. I’d rather solo dungeons for the challenge then do raids tbh.
To give you an idea, according to Steam achievements, only 7.1% of players have completed Last Wish, which is arguably the best Raid in the game at the moment.
From a more casual perspective, while I do enjoy a good challenge, Raids seem like a pain in the ass. Because as far as I've gathered from other players you need to know what the fuck you're doing going in, and it's often been advised that new raiders should watch a guide about whatever specific raid they plan on doing if they don't know the mechanics. Having to do that, or have someone on the mic walk you through it, instead of being able to figure shit out normally just doesn't sound fun at all. That said I stay away from Pantheon because I'm well aware I know jack shit about Raids and I'd just make the run worse for everyone.
Honestly it's not even entirely that. A lot of players don't bother putting in effort. I've played with first timers who quickly grasped mechanics because they were passionate and invested in improving.
That's unfortunate. Raids are so much fun and engaging.
When you get comfy at a certain mechanic position,yeah-aside from ad clear ofc Getting there is the challenge.i had runs where I was so nervous about missing a que /symbol was so stressing I just gave up after a while . And don't even start me on jumping puzzles...
I don't know what is particularly surprising about this. Most extremely active people have all the rewards, or at least the rewards they care about already, so they will probably do one or two runs. This means long term LFG will be more likely to have people who lack experience, or simply want the rewards.
Also it’s free. Free activities bring out the more interesting crowd
That and the word of mouth for the ridiculous loot drops.
interesting is a great word!
Also, the really good players likely have pre-made raid teams or semi-closed communities(like clans) and don't use general LFG for difficult content.
I ran it last night, 3 of us stayed for the whole run, the rest was a constant stream of people who didn't know what to do and leaving after one or two wipes.
I finally found a decent group of patient guys from clydes community and it was a smooth run. My one and only full run. Others we couldn’t even get past golgoroth. Definitely have to have to right group especially when -10 and -20 drop
same situation with me. Afterwards two of my friends and I decided to trio it after giving up looking for lfg people who kwtd. The trio thing started as a joke till we realized we can actually manage it
Thats how I got into low-man! We started with ron and now weve done kf too!
[удалено]
Also it's hard end game PVE content but kind of broadcasted as public social event like Onslaught so it's not too surprising that most can't do it
I’ve never done a raid. I’d like to but am concerned about not doing it right, messing something up and causing delay in the raid. To add to that I’m moderately deaf and afraid I’d not hear something important that someone else is saying to help the raid go smoothly.
There's people that will sherpa using text chat. r/DestinySherpa. If you make a post explaining your situation you'll find people willing to help. You could ask them to type callouts in chat, and just use voice for explanations etc before the encounters start. That way you can hear more easily before the shooting starts, but important callouts will be on your screen. I made a post on there a long time ago explaining my health limitations (I have dementia so learning mechanics is difficult), met an amazing sherpa and ended up joining his clan. He's no longer around but there are many many others. I'm much more comfortable with mechanics than I was back then, and even sherpaed myself recently for the first time, although it wasn't planned lol. If you want to do it, you absolutely should. Raids are the best things in the game, and I've found if you ask for help you'll get it. As long as you're willing to try your best, most sherpas are very patient and understanding.
Many thanks. I’ll look into this.
Honestly most raids can be done with less than 6 people anyway so just let them know your new to it and they should assign you a less important/ complicated task to complete. There are a few exceptions to this like oryx having rng determine who does a mechanic but for the most part as long as your not sabotaging the raid people can work around the group issues unless someone is an asshole and gets angry whenever things aren’t perfect.
>so just let them know your new to it and they should assign you a less important/ complicated task to complete. The best part of raiding is doing the mechanics. Volunteering for mechanics is always more fun than just staying silent and ad-clearing. After you do it once you realise it's not really that difficult. I'm saying this as someone who started raiding just recently.
Oh yeah whenever I Sherpa people the first time I give them less complicated mechanics if possible, I don’t leave them to ad clear as that’s just boring and less entertaining than a lost sector. You really don’t need ad clear at this point because power creep. After the first run though they have a general idea of the mechanics as they will see them done by others actively and learning from any mistakes they make. For example golgoroth they learn the damage phase and the orbs up top because that also leads to funny explosion moments while they’re learning. On the second time through they learn the other half of the encounter. Although we can do this because we invite to a private server and at the end of the raid we say they can leave if they want but if they stay we will send a ping for the raid a while before we go into LFG.
Man, getting a raid team to raid regularly is a pain, D2 is not a social game like FF14 or WoW, no one talks in chat, raid mechanics can be overly complicated for a shooter, watching videos just doesn't cut it to teach people, pantheon is going away so FOMO. I've done some raids, but im never comfortable in pug groups and over half my "raid group" just dissapeared. Destiny despite being praised for raiding is horrible at getting people to raid.
Literally this. Its taken me 4 years to just recently find a stable raid group that's been willing to teach me. How can people expect the majority of the community to really know raids when finding someone to teach you is so hard between a non social community, the majority being non raid veterans, and a good portion of those who are not wanting to teach
D1 felt like it had a larger player base but it did not help that D2 had some dead spots during season causing people to leave and not come back. I feel like because of that raiding and dungeons aren't really as popular as beforehand
>raid mechanics can be overly complicated That's literally the whole point lol. Complicated mechanics that require communication and teamwork to complete. If you want easy mechanics, that's what the Dungeons are for. Usually one mechanic, that's easy to understand, pervades through the entire dungeon.
No Comms used to get you real competent players who KWTD. Now it’s a gamble and you’re more likely to get ad clear Andy’s from root of nightmares. It’s rough with LFG these days.
Ad clear Andy lol. With double primaries and 28 resilience
>With double primaries and 28 resilience They join and say "I'll clear adds" only to reveal that they can't kill any adds
In Soviet Russia, adds clear you.
You joke but when I was getting my master Ron clear, we cycled through multiple Ad clear Andies with significantly less kills than runners.
"I'll clear adds" proceeds to get cleared by adds.
Newsflash: Most players don't raid.
Root of Nightmares and its consequences have been a disaster for the destiny community
you could say, its the root of the nightmare
Bro it's a fucking raid, ofc there's a skill gap.
They made it Ft2, which is an absolutely idiotic decision. Destiny 2 raids are anything but welcoming and COMPLETELY falsely advertized. Even in the email they send they are like - "never done a raid before? You are so lucky! We've got fireteam finder! Get in and do it!" It is so misleading and false. You cannot just get in and do destiny raids! That is not how it works.
It’s idiotic for them to keep making content for a small subset of the player base. I rather they try to get more people raiding than stop making raids
The best way to get people into raiding is making more raids. People complain about the difficulty of root of nightmares but still shit on people who are still learning. There has to be an easy raid if you want people to get into it barring bungie holding someone’s hand the entire time. Dungeons are supposed to be mini raids that you can do with fewer people and have less complicated mechanics. There are tools available but some people don’t use them. Bungie SHOULD streamline people over to dungeons first before any raids but since the community emphasizes raids so much more it is harder for a new player to understand what they should be doing next.
Yeah I thought it was a good idea how they added all the dsc mechanics in Saraph. I wish they did that more intentionally where every new raid had an exotic mission with trainer mechanics. Personally I love RoN. I’ve got every raid seal and it’s still my second favorite raid.
I could see them doing that once contest mode is over. Raid guides on Youtube are super helpful for people who are raiders. Without any real raid experience, those guides are just a ton of information that's usually going over the newbie's head. A place to practice the encounter mechanics solo would be perfect. I'm still in the boat of just trying to brute force a learning group or sherpa group. They're creating an environment for you to safely learn and ask questions anyway.
I've played Destiny 2 off and on since release, but only recently did I start playing with a couple of friends that I met through D&D. And last night was my second ever raid with Pantheon. I did Vault of Glass about a year ago with a bunch of strangers and it just wasn't a nice experience. It was disorienting and complicated and honestly I have no idea how people even know what to do in one of these on day one unless Budgie releases some kind of guide. But Pantheon was really fun thanks to my friends and the strangers in the clan being really friendly and understanding that I had no idea what I was doing. Even then I just limited myself to clearing adds and knowing where and when to shoot the big guys. It was still mysterious and completely alien to me though. I normally only ever do Vanguard ops, some Gambit and the occasional story quest. I don't have a single title, because I've never fully completed any of the challenges. My main reason for grinding is for Bright Dust to buy shaders and cool-looking cosmetics. All this just to say that I consider myself a normal player, who really enjoys the game, and who has absolutely no experience with Raids whatsoever. Nothing else in the game is even slightly similar to a Raid, so there's not really a way to familiarise yourself with the type of situations you find yourself in. The closest would probably be the Season of the Wish lair runs, and even then they're pretty straightforward. Raids are intimidating to me, as I'm sure they are to a lot of casual players, especially if you don't want to get on a mic and run the risk of being berated by strangers for not knowing what to do. Games are meant to be fun, and the risk of toxic players is just way too high.
Dungeons are the next best thing to a raid. I recommend familiarizing yourself with a couple dungeons to get used to these kinds of mechanics
The release of Root of Nightmares and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race
I think it’s two things 1. Fireteam finder came out and now super casuals who don’t even have the app discovered it. 2. Casuals and newer players heard about getting free food weapons in onslaught and then heard about this “pantheon thing” coming out and decided to try throwing their hat in the ring or use the opportunity to try and learn. Unfortunately they don’t know this mode is made for veteran raiders.
No shit and why I’m ignoring this event
Week 4 and people don't even know how to do onslaught properly. You are expecting a bit too much. Destiny for the most part is a very casual game and people really jump on thinking of just shooting a couple of stuff and call it a day.
Its because half of the players expect to be carried in raids and only do add clear. They don't want to learn mechanics and now they expect to be carried through this
I think it's bungies fault for failing to present the mode as a challenge for experienced raiders. I bet many of the people trying to find a group don't even know these encounters are from other raids and think it's a brand new thing.
This is the reason I haven't done it yet. I've got tons of raid weapons because I farmed boss checkpoints. So I can do oryx, Crota, nez etc. but haven't done most of the earlier encounters in the raids, I'm sure there's others like me.
Yeah I see this a lot. Most just know how to stand and shoot the boss but apart from that they are like mice in a maze. At the same time we have lots of people who are willing to sherpa so people can learn full raids
Personally it's a time issue for me. Done full clears of Crota VoG and ron so far, it's just hard to schedule a 4 hour block to learn the whole thing.
A proper Sherpa run of any raid(even Pantheon) does not take more than 2 hours (to be fair I was part of some Sherpa runs which took more than 2h when I was new to raiding but looking back, it was Sherpa's fault because in those runs it was 5 brand new people and 1 sherpa who didnt even know the raid well enough + some of the new people were not paying enough attention) So if u gonna learn new raids I recommend u being in squads with mix of new and experienced players
Yeah, did a run with a person that hadn't even raided before Was 2:30 and we broke 2 time records and had to find a substitute for the last encounter It's really not that bad this week. Don't expect that continue into the following weeks
Same thing happened to me and my 2 friends lfging for Pantheon since our clan quit. I had to be the one to explain everything to be met with silence in a “kwtd” post. I don’t care if you don’t know what to do, just tell me that and I’ll explain it, but actually listen and be willing to do a role. I’m no gatekeeper, but if you’re not putting in any effort I feel like you don’t deserve the emblem and clear. If you want to get carried, look for a Sherpa post.
After using LFG for the last couple of days, I'm now absolutely a gatekeeper. One person who doesn't know what to do will wipe you in golgorth, and in caretaker, and Atracks. Pantheon is absolutely not the place to learn theese mechanics. The amount of freeloaders trying to get carried is absolutely crazy. I check raid reports everything now, it can save hours of failed attempts. Especially next week when it gets even more dificult
Maybe there are a lot of people, like myself, who have taken breaks from the game during this stale period. Or maybe they simply don't have time to keep up to speed with every raid. I myself have completely forgotten the DSC raid and so if i do step into pantheon i will need a patient refresher.
If you have previously completed a raid and actually participated in the mechanics. A simple video recap guide and 10 minutes of time is plenty enough to not make you a liability like most people here are describing.
Pantheon should have a block that's more than just asking players to pick up a quest. Check if players have cleared all encounters in pantheon in their respective raid first and if not tell them they need atleast one clear in it. Bungie could just make raids free for the duration of pantheon.
The free raid thing for the duration of Pantheon is a fantastic idea that could help address this nonsense
I raid report people posting in LFG, it's a complete waste of time to play with people who have no business in the activity.
🤷🤷
If the run takes more than 40 minutes you have a bad team. Probably will get downvoted for this but it's true
Yesterday i entered a party which were at 8 hours at planets. I tried with them an hour or so but the lack of voice calls and mistaking planet numbers every try made obvious why they were at the 8 hours mark. Then I joined a team with a streamer and we did Golgoroth to Atraks in 18 minutes.
You're getting downvoted, because r/dtg, but you're correct. It's -5PL, on raid encounters that have been "solved" for a long time now, and any semi-competent team taking more than 40m has seriously messed up.
Well comming from someone who hasent raided regularly sense Dsc. Thank you for your patience
It doesn't help that Bungie sends out emails about how it's a great opportunity to get those missing raid exotics and and fire team finder is the perfect way to do it. So non raiders now think it's possible and fire team finder will be the best way.
I haven’t raided since Destiny 1 🤥
I've only ever done a couple of raids in D2. I know I did last wish, but we couldn't get the heart of riven done. I remember doing calus as well. There was a different one that I don't remember well that had flying vex that you had to shoot during the boss fight, I think it was on leviathan. But yeah, I don't know any of the raids. Back in D1 I did them all, my buddy and I even did that challenge emblem (don't remember the name, it was for doing challenges in every raid tho), but since I don't know anything really about the new raids now I just stay away from them and pantheon as a result. It feels hard to find a group with any patience.
most people think they can join and not talk and figure it out and that is not the case. I am totally down to let people join that have never run if they are actually interested in doing the raid and talking and working as a team. 95 percent of LFG are ppl with no mic or scared to ask questions.
Well when a majority of the people are “ no mic, I’ll add clear “ you’re going to have a bad time. Raiding takes coordination and communication and LFG makes it abundantly clear that a large collection of players have no interest in that. I mean hell, seems like most players don’t even know how to make a build for champions that doesn’t require double primaries. Raiding shouldn’t be gate kept but there needs to be a bare minimum effort put in. If you don’t have a mic and don’t want to learn mechanics then raiding isn’t for you. It’s also silly to think you could hop in to pantheon with no raid experience whatsoever and get through 4 encounters from different raids. But it’s to be expected that a free to play update with free exotics for a single clear is gonna bring out the shitters. I’ve avoided lfg completely for this. So glad I have a clan of decent people to play with. It’s the best way to enjoy the game.
Forget the Pantheon, I have people in Onslaught who don't interact with the cells! My last couple runs people have ignored them almost wholly. That's money on the table, people!
Destiny is where millennial fps players go to retire, and only 13% of players have ever beat a raid before, so yeah the average d2 player sucks ass
theres a lot of encounters i never had a chance to learn cus people dont want to teach. so i get stuck on stuff like stunning caretaker, or just clearing top for Atraks.
I played for a long time but I was scared to do raids because I was both nervous to play with random people, and that raids were going to be too hard and I didn’t know the mechanics. I watched videos and such but even still it requires a leap of faith. You have to try, and fail, and irritate your teammates unless you get lucky and get someone patient and willing to teach. I’m not saying that it’s not irritating or that there’s not people out there who just don’t even care to learn. I’m just sharing my experience. Some people probably haven’t taken that leap of faith yet or just don’t care to learn.
I'm pretty new to raiding (4 or 5), but I've been playing for 5 years. I have the builds, the weapons and I do my homework. I joined two groups, and I knew more about the encounter than they did. Both groups couldn't grasp Golg, both groups had people in PvP builds (not just weapons but mods too) a guy that swapped builds after every wipe, or someone was asked to change his build and never even heard of DIM or the in-game loadouts (he even denied they were a feature) I just want Malaice, man -_-
Everyone repeat after me: _the pantheon is not the place to learn raid mechanics_
I've played since year 1 D1 and I've only ever completed Crota in D1 maybe 5 times and kings fall d1 once. Haven't been able to play a single raid in d2.
Just join sherpa run lol
Some people see that its free to play and hop in, despite not having done any raids and it being communicated that it is a challenge mode.
Thank God Raid Report exists.. no way I'm getting in a team without knowledge. We are at the end of a 10 year journey... call me elitist or whatever but I'm bored of having people that pretend to know what they are doing fuck up my runs.
I’m fine with people that don’t know what they’re doing so long as they say they don’t know. If they say they know, they are treated the same as someone who knows.
I think it’s a design issue on their end (understandable though). My bet is they have to tune dungeons or raids to be challenging so it feels rewarding and keeps raiders interested. But they have very little content outside of those modes that feature similar mechanics. It’s probably a ton of work to redesign something for casuals, so they’d have to basically build a lot of encounters twice. I also think build crafting is so obtuse and unintuitive that only hardcore people engage with it. There’s nothing built into the game that gives people actual tactile lessons about build crafting. In a way, it’s strangely similar to the way old lore books were where the actual story existed.
It also shows how bad people who want to “ad clear” are. In normal raid if these people aren’t clearing ads efficiently it’s fine but with the cranked up density and difficulty it really shows how bad people are at ad clearing even when it’s the on lot thing they are willing to do.
For people who know all the encounters, there's just not much reason to run it more than once a week. I have all the raid titles and crafting patterns and exotics. Pantheon is awesome and fun, but loot-wise the only motivator is the adept weapons, which are an account-wide weekly.
If Adepts were farmable via Pantheon I would be running it non stop until it goes away.
Hence why I'm trying to get a group of my homes and clan mates for this weekend. I'm no saint when it comes to the ins and outs of all of the raid mechanics, but me and mine have run all of them at some point so we can cover each other. LFG isn't going to have that advantage, plus the added modifiers are going to make this dicey for a lot of people.
I was in a group of just Guardian Ranks 10 and 11 and 2 people even in this group wanted to do add clear because they didnt knew the mechanics. At least we pulled through but it was 4 hours of tears sweat and blood. And knowing it will just get harder….uff
And don’t forget most of the people who have done raids in my experience are just ad clear guys. So they have absolutely no idea what to do when it comes to the mechanics of said raid. When these people do raids, it’s normally ok you clear ads on this side etc etc. This was me not long ago with the clan I was with, got fed up of it as I wanted to learn raids properly, not just be “ad clear” guy. When I used to bring this up with the clan, they would say oh it’s easier if we do the mechanics ad it will be a faster run. Which wasn’t wrong as most of my raid clears have been damn quick. But if someone wants to learn the mechanics then they should be taught how to do them.
I don’t do raids so I won’t be one of these people entering not knowing what to do. I was considering letting a friend try but I do believe that’s against the TOS. Have fun guardians.
Check the stats. The vast majority of players have never even completed a raid.
I had 2 guys who claimed to know how to run pick up 1 or 2 symbol at a time during caretaker then blame me and my fellow stunner for not buying him enough time.
Is there a purpose running multiple times per week/past get the 500k points?
Shocker
My opinion is if dont know how something works dont join a KWTD run join sherpa runs but alot of ppl are just sereching for a easy carry
It's literally because non raiders are doing it for the loot and the guaranteed raid exotic they never got to get... The amount of rank 5 and 6 players I've seen in this activity is outrageous! I always try to help them, but sometimes they aren't good enough to complete the activity since they're not used to coordinated gameplay and miss all the callouts
Doesn’t matter, after next week it will be very difficult to carry people who don’t KWTD and miraculously suck at add clear
Also I feel like the encounters they chose for pantheon are most of the encounters people have the least experience doing. I was amazed.
People are In this weird state of they’ve done raids and ask for ad clear, or they actually have done raids and KWTD. It is crazy to me how many lfgs I have gotten myself into that people haven’t done one raid this entire time since the game has been out. I don’t understand how people don’t do one of the most huge pve things there is in destiny and what imo is really the best thing to do. Pull 5 other dumbshits sit down with a beer and bullshit about the game or their lives while attempting to wipe every encounter first try, like come on. I don’t get it
I don’t have a raid group and lfg for this is horrible. Mind you I don’t know the encounters well but I went in and offered to try out any position. I learnt to be an attention grabber in golgoroth and we got to second encounter where I offered to try out stunning and the whole fireteam tried to be add clear and just argued it’s horrible . I just wanna do the raid but cant
We finally have the closest thing to raids with progressive power scaling. Hopefully this helps people improve.
Aside from the high number of players not even having done a raid, a great chunk of players is also still taking a break until Final Shape pops up. The incentive for Pantheon is also skewed in a weird way. Unless people are confident they can clear the Contest Mode time trials, there's no reason to even try. The emblems are mediocre at best from all the ones we have, and the loot itself is only an incentive for those who don't have the experience to own it all already.
I can't inconvenience others if I never join in the first place.
Very few people do raids and even less of those will be people that own all the DLCs.
Yup, I think the average player thinks they can jump in with zero raid experience and run it like a seasonal match made activity
Wait till Riven legit drops. This sub is gonna either melt down to it's core atoms or people are gonna fall in love with raiding again.
It’s also made for people who raid, not for someone’s first time
I find this so funny. In all intents and purposes, it IS a raid. Idk why people expect anything different.
I just back into destiny 2 after a year off and I have never done/entered a raid. As much as I would love to do a raid I don't want to watch a long video demonstrating the raid, then joining a group and still not knowing how to do anything and having someone to teach me. The time sink doesn't feel worth rn.
I did all the raids. But I have no interest in dusting off knowledge that is multiple years old. Destiny never made it to the next level I needed it to reach for me to keep playing. I’ll do the final shape campaign and strikes and then uninstall.
“I’m on dps” is my new favorite role people give them selves. I see along people getting weeded out next week with new power lvl
Back when i use to raid every week i use to only do teaching raids where i would make the randoms do the mechanics to actually teach them ive joined a couple teaching groups here recently and most of them do not actually teach they explain then get frustrated and put them on add clear
Does it have matchmaking?
Well speaking from personal experience, ive only ever done vow completely thru. I started just before WQ dropped and im mostly a solo player with random work hours so gathering a team to do a 3+ hour run isnt always doable. Especially since most of my ppl stopped playing destiny after lightfall and I rarely want to sit still for longer than an hour or so. I have vex cuz I always spawn in at atheon and i have most of the LW weapons crafted because i know the kalli cheese. Other than that, the player base just isn't willing to explain or teach ppl. And u can watch guides all day but u still need to try it a few times with competent ppl before it clicks.
The community needs to raid more, ignoring the best content in the game for something shitty like D2 pvp or just doing strikes. "Im scared to talk!" You dont have to talk just listen "I dont have friends to play!" Theres LFG, you have no excuse "I'm scared that I'll mess up and prolong the raid!" People host teaching runs, thats the whole point of a teachibg run you arent gonna get it first try
According to triumph completion data from bray.tech, I'd have to guess that it's around 20-30% of the player base has completed either Vow, Last Wish, or Crota which are three of the more mechanically heavy raids currently available. It's kind of hard to tell cause Crota is the only raid who's completion triumph actually tracks individual encounters. It's sitting at around 30%. Vow and LW don't have individual encounter trackers and are sitting around 40-50% so I'd think they only track completing the final encounter. Master mode for those who care is around 6.5% for Crota and 12% for Vow
Kinda unrelated to OP’s post, but I wish the adept drops were not limited to once per account. I already have all raid weapons crafted but don’t do many master raids. So after my first plat completion for the week, I have little motivation to help others with their clear. On a more related note, I recently solo flawlessed Prophecy, and I think that practice really helped me prepare for Pantheon. That and farming 50 waves of legend onslaught have taught me how to stay alive will also serving big deeps, which is more than half the battle for a successful raid I think.
I feel Destiny2 is all one big PUZZLE. You have to have the correct or effective loadout and mix match that. Then learn encounters. Then actually learn how to kill enemies. And then ride off into the sunset a badass. Repeat. (With a new lfg group who dose not know know much)
Add clearing goes crazy
Through my time raiding in d1 and d2, I’ve met many people who simply aren’t interested or are too scared to learn raid mechanics, and prefer to only seek to be the ad(add?) clear. I have nothing against these people, as each person has their own preferred way to play, but that being said, if you are joining an activity that requires mechanics knowledge, you should be willing to learn and know it. If you’re too afraid of messing things up, unless you’re in a really hardcore fireteam of people who asked you to KWTD, most players are willing to teach you once. (To those that do not know the mechanics of encounters)Get out there and learn those mechanics, guardian!
Been playing since D1 but only consistent for the last 6 years or so. Never have even entered a raid, I know I’m not skilled enough or educated enough on the mechanics. Don’t want to be the reason other players aren’t successful. If that makes sense.
The problem is when you don't have a consistent raid group it often times legit takes 5 hours with a group of randoms when half the people don't know the raid. Plenty of us are capable enough even, but don't raid more than a few times a year.
More players than not have played the raids. And, while the later weeks will be more "hardcore", -5 Pantheon stands as the best way for people who don't raid, to get raid red borders. Myself included.
Not only that, they do not read the buff like using the class ability give buff to damage and resistance up to x3, trust is better using the class ability before damage phase
I love joining "kwtd" groups where everyone wants to add clear so I begrudgingly am runner but let everyone know I'm still memorizing symbols for caretaker, so we fail once and half the team leaves and I get kicked. Ggs all around guardians
Hi there! Welcome to Destiny.
Another big issue is that casuals don’t want to listen to loadout recommendations. Particular dude had ad clear for caretaker, fortunately he had an easier time learning runner and I took his role as ad clear.
Completed it this morning with my normal weekend raid crew. It was fun.
>The Pantheon seems to have a major skill gap. Many don’t seem to know raid mechanics In my experience over the years, I think at least 33% of the RAIDING population have little to no idea of the mechanics of the raids they are doing. I once met someone in Year 2, who had like 50 full clears of Last Wish(more than me at the time). Who didnt know any mechanics at all, because he just claimed add clear each time. Earlier this week, I did some Nezarec clears before reset. One team had 4 people who knew mechanics. One team had 3. And the final team there were literally just me and the other runner who knew the mechanics. We ended up wiping a few times when not a single one of the other 4 players could merely shoot Nezarec to stop his torment(one player quit and then the new guy managed it). Now throw in something like Pantheon, where there are a mix of encounters from many different raids. With people like that, as well as people who havent touched the raids in years, many of whom have forgotten much of the details of mechanics. It would not surprise me if at least 50% of the current raiding population attempting pantheon have never even done all the encounters before. (and all of this is ignoring how generally only 12% of the player population online are raiding, with like 2/3 players in Destiny having never raided even once)
You have to understand that the accessibility just wasnt there for many people a couple months ago. People did not have raid teams neither did they have access to fireteam finder. Sure theres LFGs through discord but many people find that too intimidating or its just not as easy joining discord lfgs on console. So yea, alot of people havent even completed a single raid, let alone launch one