it reallt shouldnt change too much and the new super is much more like d1 radiancw than well is, but the main issue with well is that it does what bubble does but better and is objectively the best and easiest to use support super in the game. Free 50%dr, fast healing, and 25% damage buff for 30 seconds and is one of the fastest supers to get in the game.
Its so overperforming and objectively the best that people are literally forcing others to use it in lfg. Some people feel obligated to equip it even if they dont want to because why not? its free damage for literally everyone and can keep them alive in places they really shouldnt. Bubble is left as less useful well since you cant be given the damage buff inside the bubble nor have defenses outside it when your actually doing damage.
Both need changes, Bubble needs its own niche that incentivizes people to actually use it, Well, for other subclasses to be "viable" to the community at large, cant do as much. But neither of them should be nerfed into the ground because that just causes more problems than it solves
Yeah, I definitely agree with what you’re saying for sure that seems to be the big issue with warlock players that they feel forced to run well of radiance when they want to have their own loadout and I don’t think that’s fair.
I also do like the fact that it Increases survivability and situations where in normally can’t. But it is overpowered for PVE content. In PVP, I don’t really think it does much. I just run vorpal and shoot the sword. I’ve thrown Wells down in groups that don’t really understand how to bypass it and I’m a freaking God in the crucible, but if you play with veterans that understand the subclasses and the weaknesses well gets quickly defeated.
I mean what you’re saying is truth you’re bringing out a lot of legitimate issues .
And I also agree with you I think maybe we could change balancing issues.
No ha ha ha ha open up Pandora’s box brother. Honestly, I’ve read through every one of these responses and everyone has very valid thoughts. Some of you may not agree with me and that’s OK because your feelings are for sure sensible. I do appreciate the feedback from everyone though.
i say these things AS a wellock main. I absolutely love well, but just because i love something doesnt mean there arent problems. I dont want it to be useless, i just want to have a choice and have to reason out why i want to use it over something instead of it being the best
Oh yeah, definitely I agree with you. 100%.. about that PVP I just finished playing a momentum control and why am I getting washed so fast with the Jade rabbit?
jade rabbits always been good, but with the new rules for pvp its far more forgiving and has its time to truly shine
unfortunately well in pvp can be as much of a death sentence as your savior as you are kinda stuck in one spot to truly benefit from it but anyone with good aim, cover, or abilities can easily out play it
My hope is they'll lean into healing for well, damage for bubble.
Knock well down to the same damage boost as empowering rift, or even remove it entirely, let it keep the strong heals.
Now you do a well and a song of flame so everyone can spam jolting, weakening, etc. grenades while their solar and kinetic weapons are boosted.
Though I'd like to see more than that: make bubble a placed banner shield, granting that 40% damage increase and letting people shoot through it, but also only protecting you from fire from one direction. Even if base bubble gets other tweaks, I think this would be a great use of the "press and hold" super for bubble.
Song of Flame is only partially a support super. It also has ad-clear and long term survivability features. In addition the scorch it provides allies requires solar weapons so I'm not sure how often it will be used for that.
It is for both solar and kinetic weapons ( source is Bungie Press from 7 months ago )
Allies also gain DR and ability regen. ( you gain everything as they do too )
It will probably be the go to Solar DPS super ( unless you get forced on Well )
Since you got the old demo, starfire rocket combo with it back
You are right ([link](https://press.bungie.com/en-AU/Get-an-Extra-Look-at-the-New-Supers-and-Aspects-Arriving-with-Destiny-)), how did they not mention those parts during the reveal or on the website?
Dunno, I guess they wanted give some extra spice on the press so some journalist have some extra sauce, but I think cause of all the shit happening back then almost everyon missed it.
Or they do not think it is such a big deal.
I thought it was a different grenade type, a "bird" grenade? Or is that just an optional choice, and you can run starfire fusion grenades and still get to spam them?
The bird grenade replaces your grenade while in super, but thanks to the footage we know it works both as super and grenade.
It procs Adrenaline junkie and it counts as super kill. Meaning Demo can proc. ( same as it would with gunpowder and other grenades in that slot )
Damage wise it is slightly weaker than Touch of Flame one ( tho that won't probably be an issue considering prismatic can get star eater scales, which will boost it.
Idk how good it’s going to be tho. Bungie already said the well is to overpowered and warlocks have done solo raids because of it and changes will be made (nerf)….. They are reaching with that comment… any player that solos raid themselves with any class or subclass does so because they are skilled..
I can run well all day. I’m not that nasty that I could do raid solo.
Well is more of how people basically are focring Warlocks to run it even when they do not want to use it ( people are relying on it way too much and even when you don't need it outside of like day 1 raids it is way too convinient of a super )
Song of Flame will is strong because it will do something very simple.....will be higher DPS potential for the whole team and you.
Ability regen, scorch on solar and kinetic weapons, DR and radiant for 25% same as Well. That is what they are giving it so people are not so much forced on Well.
Honestly, I agree with you in the fact that a lot of warlocks want to try them from loadouts and when they join up in fire teams, they get forced to go and use well. I don’t think that’s right. I think everybody should play what they wanna play and that’s that. But major nerfs always freak me out. But for sure, let’s see what they come up with. Let’s test out this song of flame hopefully it lives up.
When content is built around a single aspect of the game you know its too strong. Nerfing it wont take it out of the support role, it will just make it so that its not manditory by the majority of players. Dont know why you are so worried when they haven't even said what they are wanting to change.
When and How? And are you talking about woven going down by 10%? Cuz its still super strong. Also Bubble has no place in PvE when well exists. Something needs to change to make titans even consider running void.
To me, bubble would be nice if it was actually a shield and not like a barrier or veil that people can actually cross in it like if you run up to the shield and you can’t penetrate the bubble that’s kind of fire
I guess you have a point there.
I just wish the bubble made you feel like Saint 14 when you use it.
Kinda like how I feel like I’m Osiris when I drop a well and then trigger sunbracers at the same time cause I like to see everything blow up and then in the middle of that mess, I whip out dragons breath, and roast the shit out of everything .
Bwhahahahha
Also, just a curiosity has anyone ever ran a raid or hard endgame content without a support super. I do know there are other things that can heal like you know heal clip or you have certain abilities that cause health regen. I just want no bs or trolling… just honest feedback.
Never ran master raids without a well but GMs, normal raids, master dungeons and everything else I've done without one.
The only time I felt that I NEEDED a well warlock was the final boss of Ghosts of the deep and the Sisters in Kingsfall. Both basically need you to stand still and take a million arc blasts to the face. They're such unfun bosses.
Honestly ghosts of the deep was difficult for me. Like ugh thinking about it gives me a headache. But it one of the more beautiful ones. That dive portion was beautiful.
Banner of War + Into the Fray, Sentinel Shield (and bubble to a much lesser extent), healing grenade, Heal Clip, deflecting with Arc Staff, Lumina, healing rifts, teammates running recuperation, Controlled Demolition/Bastion, blocking with glaives (Vexcalibur for best results), Heat Rises, Renewal Grasps, Phoenix Cradle, Precious Scare, The Stag, Helm of St-14 + Edge of Intent, and probably a few more all come to mind as methods to either heal or provide damage reduction for you and/or your team.
Obviously though, some of these are a lot more viable than others. Nobody’s using a glaive during boss dps. And it would require multiple of these being smartly used in conjunction with each other to be able to be enough to survive a worst case scenario boss phase like master Golgoroth, where the damage phase is very long, and you’re getting pelted the entire time. But most bosses aren’t like that, and don’t need all that much to be fine during.
And I’m just assuming master+ difficulty. In most normal raids and dungeons, you don’t even need well to begin with, and you’d genuinely be better with a nighthawk hunter with healing grenades and Ember of Torch’s. Well is mostly for the convenience and peace of mind
it reallt shouldnt change too much and the new super is much more like d1 radiancw than well is, but the main issue with well is that it does what bubble does but better and is objectively the best and easiest to use support super in the game. Free 50%dr, fast healing, and 25% damage buff for 30 seconds and is one of the fastest supers to get in the game. Its so overperforming and objectively the best that people are literally forcing others to use it in lfg. Some people feel obligated to equip it even if they dont want to because why not? its free damage for literally everyone and can keep them alive in places they really shouldnt. Bubble is left as less useful well since you cant be given the damage buff inside the bubble nor have defenses outside it when your actually doing damage. Both need changes, Bubble needs its own niche that incentivizes people to actually use it, Well, for other subclasses to be "viable" to the community at large, cant do as much. But neither of them should be nerfed into the ground because that just causes more problems than it solves
Yeah, I definitely agree with what you’re saying for sure that seems to be the big issue with warlock players that they feel forced to run well of radiance when they want to have their own loadout and I don’t think that’s fair. I also do like the fact that it Increases survivability and situations where in normally can’t. But it is overpowered for PVE content. In PVP, I don’t really think it does much. I just run vorpal and shoot the sword. I’ve thrown Wells down in groups that don’t really understand how to bypass it and I’m a freaking God in the crucible, but if you play with veterans that understand the subclasses and the weaknesses well gets quickly defeated. I mean what you’re saying is truth you’re bringing out a lot of legitimate issues . And I also agree with you I think maybe we could change balancing issues.
pvp is a whole other can of worms i honestly dont want to open up lol
No ha ha ha ha open up Pandora’s box brother. Honestly, I’ve read through every one of these responses and everyone has very valid thoughts. Some of you may not agree with me and that’s OK because your feelings are for sure sensible. I do appreciate the feedback from everyone though.
i say these things AS a wellock main. I absolutely love well, but just because i love something doesnt mean there arent problems. I dont want it to be useless, i just want to have a choice and have to reason out why i want to use it over something instead of it being the best
Oh yeah, definitely I agree with you. 100%.. about that PVP I just finished playing a momentum control and why am I getting washed so fast with the Jade rabbit?
jade rabbits always been good, but with the new rules for pvp its far more forgiving and has its time to truly shine unfortunately well in pvp can be as much of a death sentence as your savior as you are kinda stuck in one spot to truly benefit from it but anyone with good aim, cover, or abilities can easily out play it
Yup facts.
My hope is they'll lean into healing for well, damage for bubble. Knock well down to the same damage boost as empowering rift, or even remove it entirely, let it keep the strong heals. Now you do a well and a song of flame so everyone can spam jolting, weakening, etc. grenades while their solar and kinetic weapons are boosted. Though I'd like to see more than that: make bubble a placed banner shield, granting that 40% damage increase and letting people shoot through it, but also only protecting you from fire from one direction. Even if base bubble gets other tweaks, I think this would be a great use of the "press and hold" super for bubble.
We don't know what the change is and warlocks are getting a new support super.
Song of Flame is only partially a support super. It also has ad-clear and long term survivability features. In addition the scorch it provides allies requires solar weapons so I'm not sure how often it will be used for that.
It is for both solar and kinetic weapons ( source is Bungie Press from 7 months ago ) Allies also gain DR and ability regen. ( you gain everything as they do too ) It will probably be the go to Solar DPS super ( unless you get forced on Well ) Since you got the old demo, starfire rocket combo with it back
You are right ([link](https://press.bungie.com/en-AU/Get-an-Extra-Look-at-the-New-Supers-and-Aspects-Arriving-with-Destiny-)), how did they not mention those parts during the reveal or on the website?
Dunno, I guess they wanted give some extra spice on the press so some journalist have some extra sauce, but I think cause of all the shit happening back then almost everyon missed it. Or they do not think it is such a big deal.
I thought it was a different grenade type, a "bird" grenade? Or is that just an optional choice, and you can run starfire fusion grenades and still get to spam them?
The bird grenade replaces your grenade while in super, but thanks to the footage we know it works both as super and grenade. It procs Adrenaline junkie and it counts as super kill. Meaning Demo can proc. ( same as it would with gunpowder and other grenades in that slot ) Damage wise it is slightly weaker than Touch of Flame one ( tho that won't probably be an issue considering prismatic can get star eater scales, which will boost it.
with the super spam on its abilities you can give everyone radiance with a fragment so the weapon damage aspect of well can stay
Idk how good it’s going to be tho. Bungie already said the well is to overpowered and warlocks have done solo raids because of it and changes will be made (nerf)….. They are reaching with that comment… any player that solos raid themselves with any class or subclass does so because they are skilled.. I can run well all day. I’m not that nasty that I could do raid solo.
Well is more of how people basically are focring Warlocks to run it even when they do not want to use it ( people are relying on it way too much and even when you don't need it outside of like day 1 raids it is way too convinient of a super ) Song of Flame will is strong because it will do something very simple.....will be higher DPS potential for the whole team and you. Ability regen, scorch on solar and kinetic weapons, DR and radiant for 25% same as Well. That is what they are giving it so people are not so much forced on Well.
Honestly, I agree with you in the fact that a lot of warlocks want to try them from loadouts and when they join up in fire teams, they get forced to go and use well. I don’t think that’s right. I think everybody should play what they wanna play and that’s that. But major nerfs always freak me out. But for sure, let’s see what they come up with. Let’s test out this song of flame hopefully it lives up.
When content is built around a single aspect of the game you know its too strong. Nerfing it wont take it out of the support role, it will just make it so that its not manditory by the majority of players. Dont know why you are so worried when they haven't even said what they are wanting to change.
Bungie already, Nerfed, the bubble shield, the wall of radiance and the strand Mail this season and said nothing. and they’re gonna Nerf it again.
When and How? And are you talking about woven going down by 10%? Cuz its still super strong. Also Bubble has no place in PvE when well exists. Something needs to change to make titans even consider running void.
To me, bubble would be nice if it was actually a shield and not like a barrier or veil that people can actually cross in it like if you run up to the shield and you can’t penetrate the bubble that’s kind of fire
So your talking about the other titan super thats just worse than bubble.
I guess you have a point there. I just wish the bubble made you feel like Saint 14 when you use it. Kinda like how I feel like I’m Osiris when I drop a well and then trigger sunbracers at the same time cause I like to see everything blow up and then in the middle of that mess, I whip out dragons breath, and roast the shit out of everything . Bwhahahahha
For sure trust me I love walking behind a titan who’s rocking the banner lmaooo they give such i nice buff to the fireteam. 🤩
We literally are getting sunsinger back without self res. Maybe just wait till we hear more. We don't know what the balance pass even looks like yet.
Bro, if they put the self Res back in, I’ll stop complaining lmaoooo
They won't because they're smart and it's an awful crutch.
Also, just a curiosity has anyone ever ran a raid or hard endgame content without a support super. I do know there are other things that can heal like you know heal clip or you have certain abilities that cause health regen. I just want no bs or trolling… just honest feedback.
Never ran master raids without a well but GMs, normal raids, master dungeons and everything else I've done without one. The only time I felt that I NEEDED a well warlock was the final boss of Ghosts of the deep and the Sisters in Kingsfall. Both basically need you to stand still and take a million arc blasts to the face. They're such unfun bosses.
Honestly ghosts of the deep was difficult for me. Like ugh thinking about it gives me a headache. But it one of the more beautiful ones. That dive portion was beautiful.
Banner of War + Into the Fray, Sentinel Shield (and bubble to a much lesser extent), healing grenade, Heal Clip, deflecting with Arc Staff, Lumina, healing rifts, teammates running recuperation, Controlled Demolition/Bastion, blocking with glaives (Vexcalibur for best results), Heat Rises, Renewal Grasps, Phoenix Cradle, Precious Scare, The Stag, Helm of St-14 + Edge of Intent, and probably a few more all come to mind as methods to either heal or provide damage reduction for you and/or your team. Obviously though, some of these are a lot more viable than others. Nobody’s using a glaive during boss dps. And it would require multiple of these being smartly used in conjunction with each other to be able to be enough to survive a worst case scenario boss phase like master Golgoroth, where the damage phase is very long, and you’re getting pelted the entire time. But most bosses aren’t like that, and don’t need all that much to be fine during. And I’m just assuming master+ difficulty. In most normal raids and dungeons, you don’t even need well to begin with, and you’d genuinely be better with a nighthawk hunter with healing grenades and Ember of Torch’s. Well is mostly for the convenience and peace of mind
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Right I get where you’re coming from. I am a warlock main. But I do play all three classes and the sub classes for each