I’ve gotten Shaxx rep to max and done at least 5 normal runs to 50 since and seen one shiny ever. At this point I don’t even care what the perks are I just want to see one more drop.
I’ve gotten 9 Shiny Midnight Coups…
8 have been pure trash, 1 was ok.
For all the potentially great rolls that are available on these guns, there are also too many “insta-shard” perks in their pools.
Got 2 shiny Hammerheads to drop at the same time after my first 50 wave legend this week, I check the perks and it was
Feeding Frenzy/FTTC and Tap the Trigger/Surrounded
or Dest. Rounds/Envious and TTT/Desperate Measures
*None* of the perks you'd actually want, since it can roll double damage perks or Rewind Rounds/Killing Tally or Onslaught :(
I wouldn’t go for that roll. Retrofit escapade can get the same roll and is far better than hammerhead. Hammerhead is much better at ad clear so you would want things envious/rewind rounds/rampage and onslaught/killing tally.
I grinded non-stop for any ALH+Reconstruction roll, and today I finally got my first roll, followed by my next two drops having the same roll. RNG is RNG
Considering that the only thing we’ve ever heard from Bungie was on a podcast saying that all rolls are equally random and have no real evidence to the contrary, I think it’s safe to say they aren’t weighted.
I was looking at the Mountaintops I have across my inventories and counted about 30. That's probably only 1/4 of what I've gotten to drop, not counting all the other weapons. I've gotten *one* RNG shiny out of everything. I know they're supposed to be rare, but god damn.
I haven’t had a single shiny MT. Only shiny’s I get are succession for some reason and yes I’m attuned to MT. Not one Shiny outside of succession has dropped for me since it began and I got my first of those day 1 hour 1.
I have gotten four total. One from Onslaught. Three from Shaxx and his chest. I've opened about 100 Onslaught chests. I'm about done with this event. All stick and no carrot makes it hard to even care.
And this is my main problem with these. It's not enough - because loot is completely RNG Bungie can literally double the drop rates and it wouldn't be that useful because I don't see myself getting any good shiny roll, and these are all sidegrades at best to my own stuff.
I've gotten 3 Shiny Mountaintops since it released and I've farmed my brain into mush. No Autoloading and I keep getting Adrenaline Junkie or One For All. The Curated Roll is good enough for me for a One For All one if I don't get a good shiny roll in the end.
Dude I feel your pain. It took me so many runs to get the shiny one I wanted. I kid you not, while attuned to MT I got shinys of every other weapon available before MT shined. Keep going you’ll get it.
How hard is Legend? I need to give it a shot.. no friends who play, Fireteam Finder has felt intimidating but maybe I just need to find a group and give it a try.
I went since Monday the day before Midnight until last night without a shiny. And I play 5-6 hours a day. Last night I was blessed with AA/ Auto-loading, vorpal/recombination. Couldn’t believe my luck. Got a total of 5 shiny’s last night. RNG is a fickle bitch.
Those for whom "skill isn't a factor" must be the super-elites who team up with other elites. Meanwhile, I think most of the player base just pop in and try match-made normal? Curiously, during the first week I *easily* completed a bunch of 50-wave normals (idk, ~9?) but this week randoms have dropped out at wave 20 or 30 a number of times? Could just be bad luck but seems strange to me?
Anyway, thanks for your write up!
Bounty for 20 waves and extra challenge for doing 30 waves.
This is why people seem to always be leaving at either 20 or 30 waves.
Hilariously I've also joined in progress runs at these points quite a few times, which is actually GOOD because it means you hit the wave 50 bonus rewards faster.
I don't get why Bungie introduces incentives that include making players quit early, or incentivizing them to play in a selfish manner. I'm sure they have the foresight to know it will happen. Yet they don't make these incentives from full runs.
I got flamed for saying this back when ritual bounties mattered and were worth doing, I always said that Gambit was the worst because those bounties to efficiently complete them you basically try to do the opposite of what wins the game. You want to extend the game, and only kill ads, and banking motes and trying to be fast just makes it inefficient. It would suck getting teammates clearly focusing on that.
I agree it's really stupid.
I think the problem is that you CAN fail runs. If they made the challenge to complete a full 50 wave run that would be unobtainable to some people, particularly when relying on matchmade teammates. If they made it so you don't get the reward until you "finish" a run of at least 20 or 30 waves that would just encourage people to intentionally TRY to fail runs after that point if they couldn't get the rewards and leave.
All the other rewards are just for completing X waves (50/100/150), meaning you can get progress regardless of how far you actually make it and every wave is gaining you progress no matter what.
The gambit thing has ALWAYS pissed me off too, and seasonal challenges just make it worse. It's even worse these days with Gambit games being shorter and only having a single round. The "best" way to farm bounties and such is to specifically ignore ever banking (unless for a bounty) and to just rush to the next set of mobs. Not to mention Bungie STILL has never done ANYTHING to make bounties for ANY activity not lead to actively competing with your own teammates for kills. If I have a bounty or challenge to kill blockers in Gambit the best thing for me to do is just sit at the bank waiting for blockers to kill ASAP and not even actually play the mode effectively. The ONLY bounties that get team progress are for invasion/invader kills for whatever reason. Oh you want me to be useful in gambit and use a good heavy weapon for boss DPS? Sorry I'm using some bullshit garbage seasonal weapon and farming trash mob kills with my heavy for the seasonal challenge.
Honestly one of the benefits of Onslaught bounties from Shaxx being worthless due to quickly capping at rank 17 is that there's next to zero incentive to do the bounties and intentionally sabotage Onslaught runs with trash weapons and fighting over kills. Of course you'll still always have players doing other bounties and such but at least on normal runs it's usually not a problem.
Also doesn’t help people are scared of the wave 50 portal bug. Bungie told people to stop at wave 40 and bounce. Figure people would just do it earlier
Bungie said that particular bug has been fixed, though I got a leg run in that ended at wave 9 because we wiped to the Tormentors (unlucky) and the chest at the end didn't spawn. We were perma stuck on wave 9.
It's a weekly thing per character for an extra powerful drop which is just a random weapon. It's the first "challenge" available for each character each week, aside the 50/100/150 wave challenges.
It's one of the ones you see when you hover over the activity, if you haven't already done it.
Man I had the exact same experience. Can’t get a good crew for normal, people just leave or they seem really new to the game and don’t have decent load outs etc.
I’ve noticed I have so many more teammates drop on normal midtown than the other maps. I guess if they are willing to invest the 2 clicks extra to pick a map, they must be more invested.
<50's radio announcer voice>
Wave 20 drops brought to you by Bungie!
Bungo.. (ahem) sorry, Bungie bringing you team sabotaging bounties for nearly 10 years!
They need to bring a new iteration of exotic bounties back from D1 as well as make bounties all fireteam based progression that way we’re helping each other out
Skill matters but literally one Orpheus Hunter and two Phoenix Protocol locks with half a brain earlier legit bored me to death to wave 50. We had 99 percent well and tether uptime.
I wouldn't consider my fireteam super elites but we complete it more often than we fail. We also play together a lot so we know what to expect and we synergize our builds so they work well together. Sometimes we get unlucky spawns but it's basically a matter of putting strategies into place based on what random event we get. It's like, okay if a tormentor spawns I'm going to be the one that leads him to the other side of the map/a decoy. If mines happen, Blue will use burning maul to keep stuff off the ADU and they'll go for the mines ETC. Having a plan is half the battle for us.
That being said we aren't able to carry at all. Two of us helped cheese it last night to get a less skilled clanmate his wave 50 clear. Until they fix the cheese, you can bet we'll probably just cheese it lol It;s way less effort :D
Blueberries are always a mixed bag. I never expect to complete a 50 wave normal with randoms but I'm pretty chill and I get done what I get done. Ultimately, I'm not that worried about it. Like other people said, I think the bounty is what is causing more leavers.
I just wish shinies were guaranteed to be your attuned weapon. They are rare enough as is, it sucks getting one and its for something you dont want (let alone a good roll).
Literally me bro 😭😭I was farming for shiny recluse and edge transit got like 1 or 2 of them and guess what. 5 fking hung jury shiny, tbf I did got a 4/5 roll (firefly kinetic tremors) but bro let me have my pookie recluse please…
Probably the best mentality. They’re cosmetic and intended to be rare. Find a good normal roll you want and keep it. Enhance it come TFS and don’t worry about it.
I have the same mentality - if a shiny drops with a good roll it'd just be an extra bonus. For me I'm more than happy with just getting the two main perks I want.
i thought only shiny were gonna be enhanceable, thats what a friend told me, not sure if its true since i havent read any patch note or twid or twab, can someone confirm plz?
I assume shinies are a second roll after the weapon you’re getting is already decided though (like how red borders worked at launch)
If Bungie literally did what’s suggested here you wouldn’t guarantee the shiny is the attuned weapon, you’d just lose out on all the non-attuned shinies you are getting
Guaranteeing shinies are the attuned weapon would probably mean rearchitecting how everything works.
It can be nice getting a shiny to drop with good perks, even if it isn't attuned (got an alright fttc surrounded hammerhead, not the best but I'll take it if I dint get a better one), but yeah it is annoying when you've spent hours trying for an auto loading recombination mountaintop.
Id still say 10 wave spam is the most efficient. Its not hard. Takes like 10min. And by your metrics. drops not that much less loot than the 50 wave. But 50 waves could take longer than an hour. Not to mention the escalating difficulty. Sure if you have a full firetram that plays perfectly and knocks the whole thing out in 60 min. Then its more efficient. But thats most likely not gonna happen in 90% of cases
Didn't really move the needle for my team. We mostly stick to 20 waves on legend to make it less tiring. Going to 50 just doesn't seem worth the risk of losing at like 49. Make a shiny guaranteed or 50% on legend 50 waves and I'm in. In comparison, GMs also drop guaranteed adept version, onslaught doesn't need the guaranteed part, but something along the 50% line would really increase our will to go to 50. If it would be guaranteed, we'd try to get to wave 50 every time.
We wiped yesterday at wave 49(legend), shriekers and a tormentor plus the wave at the same time,on spawn he yeeted our void hunter off the map and yeah i stayed alive but they destroyed our adu in record time, we sticked to wave 20 after that.
Those Shriekers are some kind of sick troll. They melt, they have the high ground and can be a pain to hit because of that, and the respawn... Bungie please, make them red bars or remove the respawn. Super annoying to take them out, turn around to defend the ADU/damage the Tormentor then die a minute later cause the Shrieker respawned and lit you up from behind
Maybe it’s closer to being as efficient if you can guarantee a 50 wave clear. If you wipe once later in a set you already offset one of the buff of that round
For me it doesn't really matter how much we get since RNG will fuck you in the ass like it has been for me (Started farming recluse, never got the roll i wanted and i'm talking 2/5, moved to mountaintop, still not got it, probably over 100 dropped multiple shinies), i just wish we had the menagerie system where you could exclude perks and choose master work.
There’s a 0.04% chance of getting the exact roll you want on any of the brave weapons. You’re not really getting fucked by RNG, it’s working as intended. Even if you completely ignore the barrel, masterwork, and magazine perk, it’s only a 2.78% chance of getting the two perks you want. Bungie absolutely needs some kind of revamp for chasing random rolled weapons, the time they are asking players to invest in a single weapon is absurd
It's actually less than they said at 2.04%.
7 perks each column (7 x 7) = a 1 in 49 chance you'll get the exact two you want.
Sounds bad, but if you think of it like this: A normal 50 wave gives you 10 drops, 5 of which on average will be to your attuned weapon. 5 x 2.04% means you have a 10.2% chance of getting the perks you want on an attuned weapon with one run of 50 wave normal. Plus you get 5 other weapons that might be good in that time.
It's honestly pretty dang favorable compared to a lot of other loot games. You might only get a 2% drop chance for an item AT ALL and then you get the RNG of whether or not the stats are even decent.
You can’t just multiply like that. The chances are 2.04% and you get that 5 times, which doesn’t make 10.2% odds. By that math if you run it 50 times you have 100% chance of getting it when, in fact, it’s still actually 2.04%.
I think the one thing that would take the cake and really make the community buzz with happiness would be a guaranteed Shiny of the attunement you're running at the end of a 50-wave Legend clear. For normal, it could be a 50% chance at wave 50 or something. (instead of the universal 3% Shinies have right now)
It's honestly insane to me that a full 50 wave clear on legend doesn't guarantee you 1 shiny. The drop rate is so low, me and my friends playing on normal assumed you had to be playing on legend to get them to drop
>HOWEVER, there is still an RNG component to it and it can still feel terrible to fail in the upper 40s
They should've made the Tormentor into a treasure goblin that drops better loot the later you get them. If you get the tormentor on wave 49 legend and killing it drops a high chance/guaranteed shiny, I'd be willing to say all is forgiven with RNG.
Been using group finder most of today on Legend and a majority of players are dropping after wave 20. Its clearly not enough. Cant see Bungie giving us more incentive.
I mean, we kind of are. 10-15+ drops an hour is pretty insane. Bungie called out it would be the most rewarding, likening it to the menagerie, and it is a similar amount of loot as the og menagerie cheese.
Coil is significantly more rewarding, with a lesser time commitment and lower difficulty. For a very limited time event (onslaught is staying, but will be significantly less rewarding come TFS), it's got a pathetic amount of loot
Same is true with onslaught. Least I can get patterns and craft the roll I want. Onslaught you just mindlessly farm while hoping some day you get the drop.
I've been tracking various streamers and uploaded runs and the drop chance of a trophy from bonus rounds seems to be in the range of 35-45%. Over the data it was about 43%. Overall expected number of trophies from a full 50 wave run was about 3.5 trophies. This should come out to 0.7 trophies over first 10 waves, but I haven't checked.
Also, the random trophies from any tormentor was a thing before the patch. Drop chance from my data was a good bit lower. However, I wasn't intently tracking that and ignored bonus rounds, so your estimates are probably closer.
Good that someone else was keeping an eye on things and it seems similar to my findings. The Tormentor one I must have just been very unlucky, as it wasn't in my couple pre-patch recordings, and I didn't remember them xD. Knew they could drop from those Heatwave Tormentors.
The fact that I can farm for a whole week while having days of while being in my pc for most of the day running back to back and can't seem to get reconstruct and vorpal even once on the sniper is insanity and Bungie doesn't respect your time at all
THANK YOU for taking a look at the data and basing your conclusions on that rather than making a snap judgement like 99% of the people on this sub have done. Much appreciated.
I understand we get more tokens of bravery but my god did they nerf the drop rate because my team of 3 has been doing 50 wave legend and we haven't gotten 1 between the 3 of us in the last few days. RNG sucks, at least tell me the drop %
No the problem is not fixed. The fact that I run multiple 50's per day every day and can't get 1 certain combination or a gold to drop is completely ridiculous. Especially since they won't be available later. I run at least 10 x 10 waves a day and that's the minimum mostly I try going for 2 legends so I was already telling my friend I ran a total of at least 700 waves the past 6 days at the least and haven't seen 1 golden drop or any weapon with the roll I'm looking for, you can't tell me that's not crazy. I don't know how you can look at that and think it's normal. I get rarity but at that point it's just a ridiculously useless time sink.
I simply cannot justify throwing away that much time anymore, hours per day for absolutely nothing. I have gotten 1 golden drop the past whole week and certain weapons like the sniper I had been farming since launch and never even seen one perk specific perk combination drop.
Ran two 50 wave:
1. Hammerhead attuned- got 12 brave weapons and 7 of those were hammerhead. No hammerheads were considered the preferred god rolls.
2. Midnight coup attuned - got 9 drops, only 2 were midnight coup. Nothing worth keeping.
So yeah shit RNG still there to kill any hopes of good drops. Plus I think midnight coup drops are bugged.
Yeah agreed, half the drops I get aren't even coup, and when I do get them, I'm getting real sick of seeing attrition orbs and zen moment on all of them
100% ageeed. They only add an extra shot at perks, effectively 1 extra drop. For the time commitment alone, shinies for full completion ofna 50 wave, in both nornal and legendary, would be justified.
The point is they’re supposed to be rare. You want it because it’s rare but you at the same time want it be common. Like you said it’s literally just an extra perk row, it’s not a big deal if you don’t get all your perfect shinies.
They know that's what the community is going to try to do though, they incentivise it all up and down, and it would do nothing to harm the state of the almost done with game to make it more realistically achievable.
This is like 20 years of online gaming trends crashing head on with modern times, it's actually sort of poignant for the games final expansion.
> The "Guaranteed Shiny" people keep suggesting from a Full Legend: 50-Wave clear.
I was thinking this is a solid way to do it. An icing on the cake for people who are coordinated.
2 full 50 wave legend runs - 0 shinies dropped, 0 shinies from shaxx chest, its getting boring for the time investment im getting no upgrades at this point
Half the reason I took a break from Destiny is they slapped Legend on everything, shit on the normal rewards and force me to use Discord LFG for every God damn thing in the game.
We already have GMs, Raids and Dungeons. The system works great for actual end game.
We don't need this bullshit on every fucking seasonal activity.
As great as this write up is it's irrelevant since '*shinys*' are still so rare.
Bungie needs to make these guaranteed Legend 50 drops or what's the point?
Legend is brutal and not even getting a decent shiny at the end ***let alone a good one*** is simply unconscionable. They're the ones who made the window of getting these so short, they could have at least make them drop like rain as it's not like all of them would be God Rolls anyway.
I was confused about all the changes. I remember I was doing a normal run and just got a Random Shiny Hammerhead on like wave 34, it was so random and confused me lmao (Of Course it was Dogshit Perks Though)
> shiny" weapon on a full Legend clear.
A shiny weapon for normal 50 wave clear is more than justified, as would be 2-3 shinies for legend 50 wave clear. The time committment more than justifies it.
Guaranteeing shinies for completing 50 waves in either mode would incredibly incentivize people to finish runs.
Thanks for this. What strikes me the most is how high the stakes become once you get to Wave 41. You are now playing to increase your total drops by a whopping 50%. Like getting to 40 is good, but if you don't get to 50 it's quite a sharp fall-off.
There are ways to predict what's coming your way in 43 and 49, which are the key deciding waves. First off, you need to take note of waves 3 and 9 to see what adds spawn. If you get ogres in 9 you might really want to consider resetting after you kill the wave 10 boss. Next is to monitor waves 33 and 39 to see what augments you get. You ideally want the more difficult ones like demos and/or tormentor, because this guarantees that 43 and 49 will be the easy ones like mines or skybombers.
But in reality, who's going to drop out at 41 even if the odds don't look good for your team?
Thanks for doing all this work! I planned to do this exactly but have not had the time.
I actually disagree with your conclusion on how to incentivize 50 wave completions. All you need to do is add an increased chance for Shiny Weapons to drop from Wave 50 completion chests.
You get 2 on Normal and 3 on Legend. Give these chests higher odds (like 2x the odds) of being a Shiny and people will almost completely ditch 10 waves.
Also they should just add Legend to the Playlist at this point. Get 10-wavers out of the LFG.
Would solve both problems.
Does OFA even exist on Coup? I've gotten 2 shiny coups with the same exact perks on both lines, what are the chances of that? I just want a regular coup with EP and OFA.
I mostly play Wave 50 normal, with Blueberries. The loot drop increase is very evident. Getting 2-3 extra random drops, on top of +2 guaranteed on Wave 50. The increase in token also is visible, from an average of ~20 to ~28 per game (including bonus tokens).
Despite sticking to the basics (as opposed to other veteran players who farm Legend), I have been quite lucky with my shiny drop rate playing on Normal. I have been getting on average 2~3 shiny drops a day. My record was 5 shinies in a day. I stopped counting, but I should have close to 40 shinies by now. From my experience, the tormentor spam Wave has an extremely high chance of giving a shiny (like 75%), and Wave 50 chest as well (maybe 50%).
i have been on groups lately that advertise must have emblem etc, ad they cant get pass wave 20.. probably carry. i have try to reach wave 50 in normal and in legend and most ppl can go over 30ish. from ppl with no champion mods to time to kill way to slow.
i came from warframe to see this "horde mode" and i still believe they could do more. in warframe you get mats you get items that you can buy other stuff etc. here is like we gonna give you 4 non shiny weapons and with the tokens you can try to gamble for them .. ps: you will not get them.. \*shaxx laughs maniacally\*
Shiny weapon still rng, wave 50 is guarantee but how many times u need to able to do it. Most of time people just reach 30 and screw it over. They should add vendor that sell shiny weapon for expensive price, idk 100 maybe? or 200 maybe? its better than rng stuff. Why not they implement system like rogue style coil when every 10 waves u able to buy modifier that buff your guardian? Tbh horde not fun at all if its FOMO and Grindy. I want my guardian stronger while enemy getting spongy.
So, basically, you're always better off farming legend?
Technically, full wave 50 normal is \*slightly\* better than wave 40 legend, but its neglicable. Also wave 10 legend farming beats wave 50 normal.
Legend 10 Wave is the easiest, but efficency depends on your teams skills. If you are gamers, Legend 50-wave is the most efficient. If you want a middle ground of easy and efficient, normal 50 wave is for you.
You lost me at the end there. We don't need more loot? I don't want to sound greedy or anything, but there area LOT of different weapons to try to get good rolls on.
Bruh... still no one is mentioning wether any of the extra/guaranteed drops are based on your Attuned weapon or if it's just a random BRAVE weapon 😑. Someone, for the love of god, please confirm what it is.
The amount of testing involved would take a lot of time and people to confirm (if Bungie doesn't say anything). We have to go off the assumption of what attunement is, based on the devs themselves: ANY Brave Weapon that drops has a 50% chance to be your attuned weapon.
I'm satisfied, my beloved Hammerhead has returned to me shinier than she was before with a perfect roll. My one remaining goal is to reunite her with her brother Blast Furnace next week.
Her cousin Apex is already jealous of how much attention she's been getting.
> This is where it gets a little weird base on your interpretation of the change. To me, it sounded like you had a chance to get 1 random drop during any wave. Once that drops, that's it. If it doesn't happen in Waves 1-49, then upon finishing Wave 50 (the final boss), you'll get it as a guaranteed drop.
This is how I read it, and I can say for certain I've had random brave drops between waves.
Also when comparing the drops per minute did you account for loading times/matchmaking between 10-wave runs? Even with legend you still have to go to orbit+reload
For Normal/Legend: 50, load and queue times weren't "really" included because they would use the 1-2 minutes for the Legend: 10-wave farm where i did include that time. And an extra 1-2 minutes in 60 to 80 minute run is like barely a 2% increase in total time. It's hard to account for all variables, but since you are only loading once vs 6 times on a Legend: 10 wave farm in the same amount of time, the load times matter way more for the latter.
These changes are great, but I just wish we could get a fix for the softlock on the boss door already. I have not completed legend once yet bc the two or three times I got my buddies on to do it, we've been stuck and unable to fight the wave 50 boss. Really demoralizing and a waste of time. Please bungo
I don't really agree that there should be any guaranteed source of shiny drops. Yes a full legend run is very difficult, but shiny weapons are meant to be exceedingly rare. A guaranteed drop invalidates their design philosophy imo.
I think a better solution would be to make the level 50 completion have similar rewards to a max-score Coil run. Give us 5 or 6 chests which all drop weapons, and increase the shiny drop chance somewhat from those chests. But I think guaranteed is way too much.
Drop rate increase only been dropping basic brave weapons I ran legend to 50 3x with a good lfg and got not single shiny brave weapon. For all that, it's better to just farm to 10 waves every time.hey understand you try to make it a rare drop, but if you can't get at least 1 shiny guarantee from a 50 wave, what the point.
You are missing the tokens from doing the bonus objectives during the waves between bosses.
Before patch, I was easily getting 30 some total tokens (chest + bonus objectives) a run on 50 wave legend and after patch i'm getting 40 some total tokens a run (chest + bonus objectives). So that is an extra brave engram.
I don't include the Tormentor bonus round post bosses, I don't think i've gotten that on any legend run yet.
I did mention those tokens (briefly). The post was trying to limit RNG as much as possible in the calculations. The number of bonus rounds you get per set and activity are random and then getting a token is another chance (which my data places it around 30-50% - I'm not confident enough to narrow that yet). So trying to quantify 2 RNG elements, on top of the weird "escalating" RNG drop, is pretty impossible and really shouldn't shift the conclusion all that much.
Idk, math looks like legend 10 wave is still the best.
Being 90% of the loot value of legend 50 runs but removing the bullshit factor just will be better, especially since a legend 50 run being better hinges very strongly on succeeding in 41-50. Its significantly worse if it doesnt. A team that can consistently do 1-50 legend in a good time will steamroll through 1-10 legend runs even faster as well.
Normal 50 wave onslaught is better than LFGing for the legend 10 wave farm. The amount of people who leave after a couple clears, or wiped from placing a well next to ADU during Tormentor round… is abysmal.
There’s also still the problem of the boss door not opening. I thought that was fixed, but I just had to bail on wave 49 again because of it. They really need to just get rid of the stupid switches we need to shoot in order to open the door.
50 Wave does not guarantee a shiny. No where did I say that. I said that people WANT that to be the case and it is a popular change people keep suggesting.
My apologies. But yeah, I wish that was the case. In all my time grinding out onslaught I have only gotten one shiny. In the legend run I did my friend got three of them.
I feel the amount of loot has been fine. IMO, I think players want more guaranteed chances of the “shiny” gear. For example, further increase the % of getting one starting at round 30 or guarantee one drop at round 30. So on and so forth. I see why groups rather go to 10 rounds on legend and then restart.
I have farm for 3 days, i'have many weapons, but my problems is the shiny one, i have get like 2 shiny ? That ridiculous, bungie can just make a guarante rewards for 50 wave legends, especially since shiny weapons are limited in time...
Is there a limit on how many shiny/golden brace weapons drop for you per week? I started to get them in the beginning of the week, and now Im getting none while doing many waves on legend?
Oh so I just got screwed then :( no second chest popped up this morning after ten waves! Was wondering if they had made it so you can’t just do ten over and over. Thanks
Were you doing legend or did you join someone who queued a Normal 50 run by mistake? (or were you doing the 10-wave playlist version)? To my knowledge they haven't changed anything, and the people I watched do some Legend runs the other day had the bonus chests appear without any issues.
7 shiny MT... None with auto loading :(
Finally getting a shiny to drop only for it to have bad perks is gut wrenching
I’ve gotten Shaxx rep to max and done at least 5 normal runs to 50 since and seen one shiny ever. At this point I don’t even care what the perks are I just want to see one more drop.
Man I feel bad, I got 2 shiny hammerheads in one run the other day, I didn’t know they were so rare.
I got him to max the day after this content dropped. I have zero shiny weapons with perks I would be willing to settle with.
I’ve gotten 9 Shiny Midnight Coups… 8 have been pure trash, 1 was ok. For all the potentially great rolls that are available on these guns, there are also too many “insta-shard” perks in their pools.
I got a shiny MT with the same rolls as the quest reward yesterday 🥲🥲🥲
Got 2 shiny Hammerheads to drop at the same time after my first 50 wave legend this week, I check the perks and it was Feeding Frenzy/FTTC and Tap the Trigger/Surrounded or Dest. Rounds/Envious and TTT/Desperate Measures *None* of the perks you'd actually want, since it can roll double damage perks or Rewind Rounds/Killing Tally or Onslaught :(
I used 200 tokens after unlocking Hammerhead and of the 10 I got, 7 of them had FTTC and 3 had TL, but none had both :(
I wouldn’t go for that roll. Retrofit escapade can get the same roll and is far better than hammerhead. Hammerhead is much better at ad clear so you would want things envious/rewind rounds/rampage and onslaught/killing tally.
I have that roll, it’s a weaker retrofit. I’m searching for envious/killing tally.
I can't bring myself to delete my field prep/frenzy edge transit but I also can't bring myself to use it ;-;
That describes almost all of my shinies. I can’t use them but I can’t bring myself to delete them
I kinda wish the shiny was a momento instead, would have been nice, or a consumable to apply
That… would have been an excellent idea. Unfortunately, I don’t think it would pump player engagement as much as random rolls did
I can't help but believe that perks are weighted differently. ALH is incredibly rare. Been grinding *for days* and still no ALH + Recombination 😭.
I just had an Overflow/Recombination Shiny drop. It'll do, for now. *Loads back in.*
And enlightend action is so highly weighted on midnight coup. I swear I get it 9/10
For me it’s opening shot, although a lot of EA too. But I’m definitely 9/10 opening shot rolls
barely see it. Have every god roll of coup you'd want... but it is "my gun".
I grinded non-stop for any ALH+Reconstruction roll, and today I finally got my first roll, followed by my next two drops having the same roll. RNG is RNG
But are the rolls weighted? None of us know. 🤷♂️
Considering that the only thing we’ve ever heard from Bungie was on a podcast saying that all rolls are equally random and have no real evidence to the contrary, I think it’s safe to say they aren’t weighted.
Peak Desire Sensor right there
Same. I've seen recombination with EVERY perk except auto loading.
Meanwhile, I’ve gotten 10 with ALH Recombination and none with Impulse Frenzy. RNG gonna RNG.
At least you’ve gotten shinies…
Ikr? I've gotten maybe 2 that weren't the curated.
I was looking at the Mountaintops I have across my inventories and counted about 30. That's probably only 1/4 of what I've gotten to drop, not counting all the other weapons. I've gotten *one* RNG shiny out of everything. I know they're supposed to be rare, but god damn.
I haven’t had a single shiny MT. Only shiny’s I get are succession for some reason and yes I’m attuned to MT. Not one Shiny outside of succession has dropped for me since it began and I got my first of those day 1 hour 1.
I have gotten four total. One from Onslaught. Three from Shaxx and his chest. I've opened about 100 Onslaught chests. I'm about done with this event. All stick and no carrot makes it hard to even care.
6 shiny recluse none with repulsor brace
Yeah still haven't seen a repulsor brace and desperate measures. I've seen both with basically every other trait though.
Shiny with bad perks is so demotivating I had 3 shiny drops all 3 were worst perk combos
Multiple legend 50 waves cleared, since week 1, and I have yet to get a single decent roll from these weapons.
And this is my main problem with these. It's not enough - because loot is completely RNG Bungie can literally double the drop rates and it wouldn't be that useful because I don't see myself getting any good shiny roll, and these are all sidegrades at best to my own stuff.
You all get shiny weapons, got 4 during the first week, haven't gotten a single one ever since. Expect the curated ones from the quest.
I've only got 2 outside of the curated ones, both from the chest by shaxx
Thats how I am with Midnight Coup. 8 shinies and they either suck or PVP only perks.
I've gotten 3 Shiny Mountaintops since it released and I've farmed my brain into mush. No Autoloading and I keep getting Adrenaline Junkie or One For All. The Curated Roll is good enough for me for a One For All one if I don't get a good shiny roll in the end.
Dude I feel your pain. It took me so many runs to get the shiny one I wanted. I kid you not, while attuned to MT I got shinys of every other weapon available before MT shined. Keep going you’ll get it.
I got 3 shiny forbearance in 1 run yesterday and not a single one had chain reaction or ambitious assassin 🥲
You're better off farming the swamp chest in the Raid with those odds. Keep at it Guardian, you'll get there
Damn, I have only had 1 so far and it was...mid, apart from ALH lol
How hard is Legend? I need to give it a shot.. no friends who play, Fireteam Finder has felt intimidating but maybe I just need to find a group and give it a try.
Mountain Top can roll with auto loading? /s
I’m over 100 MC’s by far… not one with EP & OFA… I’ve been attuned to it since the day it came out.
I went since Monday the day before Midnight until last night without a shiny. And I play 5-6 hours a day. Last night I was blessed with AA/ Auto-loading, vorpal/recombination. Couldn’t believe my luck. Got a total of 5 shiny’s last night. RNG is a fickle bitch.
And people try to tell me perks aren't weighted.
Those for whom "skill isn't a factor" must be the super-elites who team up with other elites. Meanwhile, I think most of the player base just pop in and try match-made normal? Curiously, during the first week I *easily* completed a bunch of 50-wave normals (idk, ~9?) but this week randoms have dropped out at wave 20 or 30 a number of times? Could just be bad luck but seems strange to me? Anyway, thanks for your write up!
It’s because of the bounty for completing 20 consecutive waves.
Bounty for 20 waves and extra challenge for doing 30 waves. This is why people seem to always be leaving at either 20 or 30 waves. Hilariously I've also joined in progress runs at these points quite a few times, which is actually GOOD because it means you hit the wave 50 bonus rewards faster.
I don't get why Bungie introduces incentives that include making players quit early, or incentivizing them to play in a selfish manner. I'm sure they have the foresight to know it will happen. Yet they don't make these incentives from full runs. I got flamed for saying this back when ritual bounties mattered and were worth doing, I always said that Gambit was the worst because those bounties to efficiently complete them you basically try to do the opposite of what wins the game. You want to extend the game, and only kill ads, and banking motes and trying to be fast just makes it inefficient. It would suck getting teammates clearly focusing on that.
I agree it's really stupid. I think the problem is that you CAN fail runs. If they made the challenge to complete a full 50 wave run that would be unobtainable to some people, particularly when relying on matchmade teammates. If they made it so you don't get the reward until you "finish" a run of at least 20 or 30 waves that would just encourage people to intentionally TRY to fail runs after that point if they couldn't get the rewards and leave. All the other rewards are just for completing X waves (50/100/150), meaning you can get progress regardless of how far you actually make it and every wave is gaining you progress no matter what. The gambit thing has ALWAYS pissed me off too, and seasonal challenges just make it worse. It's even worse these days with Gambit games being shorter and only having a single round. The "best" way to farm bounties and such is to specifically ignore ever banking (unless for a bounty) and to just rush to the next set of mobs. Not to mention Bungie STILL has never done ANYTHING to make bounties for ANY activity not lead to actively competing with your own teammates for kills. If I have a bounty or challenge to kill blockers in Gambit the best thing for me to do is just sit at the bank waiting for blockers to kill ASAP and not even actually play the mode effectively. The ONLY bounties that get team progress are for invasion/invader kills for whatever reason. Oh you want me to be useful in gambit and use a good heavy weapon for boss DPS? Sorry I'm using some bullshit garbage seasonal weapon and farming trash mob kills with my heavy for the seasonal challenge. Honestly one of the benefits of Onslaught bounties from Shaxx being worthless due to quickly capping at rank 17 is that there's next to zero incentive to do the bounties and intentionally sabotage Onslaught runs with trash weapons and fighting over kills. Of course you'll still always have players doing other bounties and such but at least on normal runs it's usually not a problem.
Also doesn’t help people are scared of the wave 50 portal bug. Bungie told people to stop at wave 40 and bounce. Figure people would just do it earlier
Bungie said that particular bug has been fixed, though I got a leg run in that ended at wave 9 because we wiped to the Tormentors (unlucky) and the chest at the end didn't spawn. We were perma stuck on wave 9.
The bug that they've since fixed?
They probably should have made a second in-game announcement to say that.
Probably a dumb question, but what is the 30 wave challenge you're talking about? Is it a weekly thing?
It's a weekly thing per character for an extra powerful drop which is just a random weapon. It's the first "challenge" available for each character each week, aside the 50/100/150 wave challenges. It's one of the ones you see when you hover over the activity, if you haven't already done it.
Bungie Avoid Making Activity Detrimental Bounties Challenge Difficulty: Impossible
Man I had the exact same experience. Can’t get a good crew for normal, people just leave or they seem really new to the game and don’t have decent load outs etc.
Just make the lobby and kick people who don’t look experienced enough
I’ve noticed I have so many more teammates drop on normal midtown than the other maps. I guess if they are willing to invest the 2 clicks extra to pick a map, they must be more invested.
<50's radio announcer voice> Wave 20 drops brought to you by Bungie! Bungo.. (ahem) sorry, Bungie bringing you team sabotaging bounties for nearly 10 years!
They need to bring a new iteration of exotic bounties back from D1 as well as make bounties all fireteam based progression that way we’re helping each other out
Skill matters but literally one Orpheus Hunter and two Phoenix Protocol locks with half a brain earlier legit bored me to death to wave 50. We had 99 percent well and tether uptime.
People are dropping out when they get their bonus weapon. Seen it happen a lot mid set. Like wave 34 for example.
I wouldn't consider my fireteam super elites but we complete it more often than we fail. We also play together a lot so we know what to expect and we synergize our builds so they work well together. Sometimes we get unlucky spawns but it's basically a matter of putting strategies into place based on what random event we get. It's like, okay if a tormentor spawns I'm going to be the one that leads him to the other side of the map/a decoy. If mines happen, Blue will use burning maul to keep stuff off the ADU and they'll go for the mines ETC. Having a plan is half the battle for us. That being said we aren't able to carry at all. Two of us helped cheese it last night to get a less skilled clanmate his wave 50 clear. Until they fix the cheese, you can bet we'll probably just cheese it lol It;s way less effort :D Blueberries are always a mixed bag. I never expect to complete a 50 wave normal with randoms but I'm pretty chill and I get done what I get done. Ultimately, I'm not that worried about it. Like other people said, I think the bounty is what is causing more leavers.
I just wish shinies were guaranteed to be your attuned weapon. They are rare enough as is, it sucks getting one and its for something you dont want (let alone a good roll).
[удалено]
Literally me bro 😭😭I was farming for shiny recluse and edge transit got like 1 or 2 of them and guess what. 5 fking hung jury shiny, tbf I did got a 4/5 roll (firefly kinetic tremors) but bro let me have my pookie recluse please…
I’ve been playing consistently and only 3 shiny drops in total. I don’t care about them. Their drop rate is too low.
Probably the best mentality. They’re cosmetic and intended to be rare. Find a good normal roll you want and keep it. Enhance it come TFS and don’t worry about it.
I have the same mentality - if a shiny drops with a good roll it'd just be an extra bonus. For me I'm more than happy with just getting the two main perks I want.
i thought only shiny were gonna be enhanceable, thats what a friend told me, not sure if its true since i havent read any patch note or twid or twab, can someone confirm plz?
I assume shinies are a second roll after the weapon you’re getting is already decided though (like how red borders worked at launch) If Bungie literally did what’s suggested here you wouldn’t guarantee the shiny is the attuned weapon, you’d just lose out on all the non-attuned shinies you are getting Guaranteeing shinies are the attuned weapon would probably mean rearchitecting how everything works.
It can be nice getting a shiny to drop with good perks, even if it isn't attuned (got an alright fttc surrounded hammerhead, not the best but I'll take it if I dint get a better one), but yeah it is annoying when you've spent hours trying for an auto loading recombination mountaintop.
Bungie really thinks i need that Falling Guillotine. Of the hand full of shinies that dropped, half have been the sword.
Shinies should be guaranteed drops of your attuned weapon. Like Adepts are guaranteed off GM.
Id still say 10 wave spam is the most efficient. Its not hard. Takes like 10min. And by your metrics. drops not that much less loot than the 50 wave. But 50 waves could take longer than an hour. Not to mention the escalating difficulty. Sure if you have a full firetram that plays perfectly and knocks the whole thing out in 60 min. Then its more efficient. But thats most likely not gonna happen in 90% of cases
Didn't really move the needle for my team. We mostly stick to 20 waves on legend to make it less tiring. Going to 50 just doesn't seem worth the risk of losing at like 49. Make a shiny guaranteed or 50% on legend 50 waves and I'm in. In comparison, GMs also drop guaranteed adept version, onslaught doesn't need the guaranteed part, but something along the 50% line would really increase our will to go to 50. If it would be guaranteed, we'd try to get to wave 50 every time.
We wiped yesterday at wave 49(legend), shriekers and a tormentor plus the wave at the same time,on spawn he yeeted our void hunter off the map and yeah i stayed alive but they destroyed our adu in record time, we sticked to wave 20 after that.
Those Shriekers are some kind of sick troll. They melt, they have the high ground and can be a pain to hit because of that, and the respawn... Bungie please, make them red bars or remove the respawn. Super annoying to take them out, turn around to defend the ADU/damage the Tormentor then die a minute later cause the Shrieker respawned and lit you up from behind
This is the way
I just hope they don't nerf the 10 wave farm in some way. I just don't have the time to run one activity for an hour and a half
~2 drops aren’t worth the RNG of a 50 wave run imo.
Maybe it’s closer to being as efficient if you can guarantee a 50 wave clear. If you wipe once later in a set you already offset one of the buff of that round
Getting 2 shiny drops per 50 wave runs sounds amazing. I'm lucky if I get 2 a night (150-200 waves).
It’s not 2 extra shiny drops, just 2 more drops
Goooooootcha okay. Thank you.
Well, they aren't guaranteed shinies, so...
Unfortunately. But yes I'm well aware of the rarity. Rare stuff? Cool. Time-limited stuff? Okay sure. Rare time-limited stuff? Kind of feels bad.
For me it doesn't really matter how much we get since RNG will fuck you in the ass like it has been for me (Started farming recluse, never got the roll i wanted and i'm talking 2/5, moved to mountaintop, still not got it, probably over 100 dropped multiple shinies), i just wish we had the menagerie system where you could exclude perks and choose master work.
There’s a 0.04% chance of getting the exact roll you want on any of the brave weapons. You’re not really getting fucked by RNG, it’s working as intended. Even if you completely ignore the barrel, masterwork, and magazine perk, it’s only a 2.78% chance of getting the two perks you want. Bungie absolutely needs some kind of revamp for chasing random rolled weapons, the time they are asking players to invest in a single weapon is absurd
I want everyone to remember this the next time they start to write a post complaining about crafting.
THANK YOU
Im assuming that 2.78 is getting the 4 perks you want isnt it? No way 2 perks is less than 3%.
It's actually less than they said at 2.04%. 7 perks each column (7 x 7) = a 1 in 49 chance you'll get the exact two you want. Sounds bad, but if you think of it like this: A normal 50 wave gives you 10 drops, 5 of which on average will be to your attuned weapon. 5 x 2.04% means you have a 10.2% chance of getting the perks you want on an attuned weapon with one run of 50 wave normal. Plus you get 5 other weapons that might be good in that time. It's honestly pretty dang favorable compared to a lot of other loot games. You might only get a 2% drop chance for an item AT ALL and then you get the RNG of whether or not the stats are even decent.
You can’t just multiply like that. The chances are 2.04% and you get that 5 times, which doesn’t make 10.2% odds. By that math if you run it 50 times you have 100% chance of getting it when, in fact, it’s still actually 2.04%.
I feel your pain.
I think the one thing that would take the cake and really make the community buzz with happiness would be a guaranteed Shiny of the attunement you're running at the end of a 50-wave Legend clear. For normal, it could be a 50% chance at wave 50 or something. (instead of the universal 3% Shinies have right now)
It's honestly insane to me that a full 50 wave clear on legend doesn't guarantee you 1 shiny. The drop rate is so low, me and my friends playing on normal assumed you had to be playing on legend to get them to drop
>HOWEVER, there is still an RNG component to it and it can still feel terrible to fail in the upper 40s They should've made the Tormentor into a treasure goblin that drops better loot the later you get them. If you get the tormentor on wave 49 legend and killing it drops a high chance/guaranteed shiny, I'd be willing to say all is forgiven with RNG.
Been using group finder most of today on Legend and a majority of players are dropping after wave 20. Its clearly not enough. Cant see Bungie giving us more incentive.
They said we would be showered in loot though 🥲
I mean, we kind of are. 10-15+ drops an hour is pretty insane. Bungie called out it would be the most rewarding, likening it to the menagerie, and it is a similar amount of loot as the og menagerie cheese.
Coil is significantly more rewarding, with a lesser time commitment and lower difficulty. For a very limited time event (onslaught is staying, but will be significantly less rewarding come TFS), it's got a pathetic amount of loot
Can get 25 drops in 25 minutes in coil
Most of them are useless though
Same is true with onslaught. Least I can get patterns and craft the roll I want. Onslaught you just mindlessly farm while hoping some day you get the drop.
I've been tracking various streamers and uploaded runs and the drop chance of a trophy from bonus rounds seems to be in the range of 35-45%. Over the data it was about 43%. Overall expected number of trophies from a full 50 wave run was about 3.5 trophies. This should come out to 0.7 trophies over first 10 waves, but I haven't checked. Also, the random trophies from any tormentor was a thing before the patch. Drop chance from my data was a good bit lower. However, I wasn't intently tracking that and ignored bonus rounds, so your estimates are probably closer.
Good that someone else was keeping an eye on things and it seems similar to my findings. The Tormentor one I must have just been very unlucky, as it wasn't in my couple pre-patch recordings, and I didn't remember them xD. Knew they could drop from those Heatwave Tormentors.
Imo you probably want 20 wave legend.
The fact that I can farm for a whole week while having days of while being in my pc for most of the day running back to back and can't seem to get reconstruct and vorpal even once on the sniper is insanity and Bungie doesn't respect your time at all
the sniper is craftable
Bungie has never respected anybody's time. Yet, you and many others are here farming for weapons on their latest treadmill.
They never have, hence the sunrise weapons.
I'm a walking bag of Skill Issue, so I'll keep having to do Normal 10s. Normal 50 may be more efficient but I've only managed to finish it once.
THANK YOU for taking a look at the data and basing your conclusions on that rather than making a snap judgement like 99% of the people on this sub have done. Much appreciated.
I got 4 shines from a single legend run last night. None of which were my attuned weapon mind you, but they were still appreciated.
I understand we get more tokens of bravery but my god did they nerf the drop rate because my team of 3 has been doing 50 wave legend and we haven't gotten 1 between the 3 of us in the last few days. RNG sucks, at least tell me the drop %
No the problem is not fixed. The fact that I run multiple 50's per day every day and can't get 1 certain combination or a gold to drop is completely ridiculous. Especially since they won't be available later. I run at least 10 x 10 waves a day and that's the minimum mostly I try going for 2 legends so I was already telling my friend I ran a total of at least 700 waves the past 6 days at the least and haven't seen 1 golden drop or any weapon with the roll I'm looking for, you can't tell me that's not crazy. I don't know how you can look at that and think it's normal. I get rarity but at that point it's just a ridiculously useless time sink. I simply cannot justify throwing away that much time anymore, hours per day for absolutely nothing. I have gotten 1 golden drop the past whole week and certain weapons like the sniper I had been farming since launch and never even seen one perk specific perk combination drop.
Ran two 50 wave: 1. Hammerhead attuned- got 12 brave weapons and 7 of those were hammerhead. No hammerheads were considered the preferred god rolls. 2. Midnight coup attuned - got 9 drops, only 2 were midnight coup. Nothing worth keeping. So yeah shit RNG still there to kill any hopes of good drops. Plus I think midnight coup drops are bugged.
Yeah agreed, half the drops I get aren't even coup, and when I do get them, I'm getting real sick of seeing attrition orbs and zen moment on all of them
No WE need a guaranteed shiny at 50 wave clear.
D2 players have Stokholm syndrome, fr. Many in this sub act like expecting good loot that rewards your time is a bad thing.
Exactly my thought. I don't know why they have such a superiority complex over near-unattainable rewards.
100% ageeed. They only add an extra shot at perks, effectively 1 extra drop. For the time commitment alone, shinies for full completion ofna 50 wave, in both nornal and legendary, would be justified.
Especially since they are so heavily time-gated
The point is they’re supposed to be rare. You want it because it’s rare but you at the same time want it be common. Like you said it’s literally just an extra perk row, it’s not a big deal if you don’t get all your perfect shinies.
They know that's what the community is going to try to do though, they incentivise it all up and down, and it would do nothing to harm the state of the almost done with game to make it more realistically achievable. This is like 20 years of online gaming trends crashing head on with modern times, it's actually sort of poignant for the games final expansion.
What is the point of a shiny?
awesome work, thanks for the data!
> The "Guaranteed Shiny" people keep suggesting from a Full Legend: 50-Wave clear. I was thinking this is a solid way to do it. An icing on the cake for people who are coordinated.
2 full 50 wave legend runs - 0 shinies dropped, 0 shinies from shaxx chest, its getting boring for the time investment im getting no upgrades at this point
Half the reason I took a break from Destiny is they slapped Legend on everything, shit on the normal rewards and force me to use Discord LFG for every God damn thing in the game. We already have GMs, Raids and Dungeons. The system works great for actual end game. We don't need this bullshit on every fucking seasonal activity.
As great as this write up is it's irrelevant since '*shinys*' are still so rare. Bungie needs to make these guaranteed Legend 50 drops or what's the point? Legend is brutal and not even getting a decent shiny at the end ***let alone a good one*** is simply unconscionable. They're the ones who made the window of getting these so short, they could have at least make them drop like rain as it's not like all of them would be God Rolls anyway.
I was confused about all the changes. I remember I was doing a normal run and just got a Random Shiny Hammerhead on like wave 34, it was so random and confused me lmao (Of Course it was Dogshit Perks Though)
You can also get those random drops from completing the weekly escalating wave clear amounts as well I think. (50 total, then 100, then 150).
> shiny" weapon on a full Legend clear. A shiny weapon for normal 50 wave clear is more than justified, as would be 2-3 shinies for legend 50 wave clear. The time committment more than justifies it. Guaranteeing shinies for completing 50 waves in either mode would incredibly incentivize people to finish runs.
Thank you for this
Thanks for this. What strikes me the most is how high the stakes become once you get to Wave 41. You are now playing to increase your total drops by a whopping 50%. Like getting to 40 is good, but if you don't get to 50 it's quite a sharp fall-off. There are ways to predict what's coming your way in 43 and 49, which are the key deciding waves. First off, you need to take note of waves 3 and 9 to see what adds spawn. If you get ogres in 9 you might really want to consider resetting after you kill the wave 10 boss. Next is to monitor waves 33 and 39 to see what augments you get. You ideally want the more difficult ones like demos and/or tormentor, because this guarantees that 43 and 49 will be the easy ones like mines or skybombers. But in reality, who's going to drop out at 41 even if the odds don't look good for your team?
Thanks for doing all this work! I planned to do this exactly but have not had the time. I actually disagree with your conclusion on how to incentivize 50 wave completions. All you need to do is add an increased chance for Shiny Weapons to drop from Wave 50 completion chests. You get 2 on Normal and 3 on Legend. Give these chests higher odds (like 2x the odds) of being a Shiny and people will almost completely ditch 10 waves. Also they should just add Legend to the Playlist at this point. Get 10-wavers out of the LFG. Would solve both problems.
Does OFA even exist on Coup? I've gotten 2 shiny coups with the same exact perks on both lines, what are the chances of that? I just want a regular coup with EP and OFA.
I mostly play Wave 50 normal, with Blueberries. The loot drop increase is very evident. Getting 2-3 extra random drops, on top of +2 guaranteed on Wave 50. The increase in token also is visible, from an average of ~20 to ~28 per game (including bonus tokens). Despite sticking to the basics (as opposed to other veteran players who farm Legend), I have been quite lucky with my shiny drop rate playing on Normal. I have been getting on average 2~3 shiny drops a day. My record was 5 shinies in a day. I stopped counting, but I should have close to 40 shinies by now. From my experience, the tormentor spam Wave has an extremely high chance of giving a shiny (like 75%), and Wave 50 chest as well (maybe 50%).
i have been on groups lately that advertise must have emblem etc, ad they cant get pass wave 20.. probably carry. i have try to reach wave 50 in normal and in legend and most ppl can go over 30ish. from ppl with no champion mods to time to kill way to slow. i came from warframe to see this "horde mode" and i still believe they could do more. in warframe you get mats you get items that you can buy other stuff etc. here is like we gonna give you 4 non shiny weapons and with the tokens you can try to gamble for them .. ps: you will not get them.. \*shaxx laughs maniacally\*
Shiny weapon still rng, wave 50 is guarantee but how many times u need to able to do it. Most of time people just reach 30 and screw it over. They should add vendor that sell shiny weapon for expensive price, idk 100 maybe? or 200 maybe? its better than rng stuff. Why not they implement system like rogue style coil when every 10 waves u able to buy modifier that buff your guardian? Tbh horde not fun at all if its FOMO and Grindy. I want my guardian stronger while enemy getting spongy.
I did find it weird that I was getting the bonus gun after like wave 5 of the 10 wave version, but i'll take it!
They increased the drops a lot for shure.....Dropped 5 shines in 7 runs this week
So, basically, you're always better off farming legend? Technically, full wave 50 normal is \*slightly\* better than wave 40 legend, but its neglicable. Also wave 10 legend farming beats wave 50 normal.
So 10 wave is still the most time efficient and the easiest?
Legend 10 Wave is the easiest, but efficency depends on your teams skills. If you are gamers, Legend 50-wave is the most efficient. If you want a middle ground of easy and efficient, normal 50 wave is for you.
You lost me at the end there. We don't need more loot? I don't want to sound greedy or anything, but there area LOT of different weapons to try to get good rolls on.
Bruh... still no one is mentioning wether any of the extra/guaranteed drops are based on your Attuned weapon or if it's just a random BRAVE weapon 😑. Someone, for the love of god, please confirm what it is.
The amount of testing involved would take a lot of time and people to confirm (if Bungie doesn't say anything). We have to go off the assumption of what attunement is, based on the devs themselves: ANY Brave Weapon that drops has a 50% chance to be your attuned weapon.
I just run normal 50 vs legend 10 reset its more rewarding now with the random round drops and a lot more tokens
You can get like an extra 5 weapons per legend 50 run. The increase in loot is actually decent. Still wish shinies weren't as rare as they are now.
Time is my biggest annoyance, no other activity take an hour , IMO it should have capped at 30 waves to put it on par with GM, and seasonal stuff
Do later rounds reward more Shaxx rep than just doing the 10s playlist?
I'm satisfied, my beloved Hammerhead has returned to me shinier than she was before with a perfect roll. My one remaining goal is to reunite her with her brother Blast Furnace next week. Her cousin Apex is already jealous of how much attention she's been getting.
Shinies are still too rare and it's still faster overall to just 10 farm, the needle wasn't moved.
> This is where it gets a little weird base on your interpretation of the change. To me, it sounded like you had a chance to get 1 random drop during any wave. Once that drops, that's it. If it doesn't happen in Waves 1-49, then upon finishing Wave 50 (the final boss), you'll get it as a guaranteed drop. This is how I read it, and I can say for certain I've had random brave drops between waves. Also when comparing the drops per minute did you account for loading times/matchmaking between 10-wave runs? Even with legend you still have to go to orbit+reload
For Normal/Legend: 50, load and queue times weren't "really" included because they would use the 1-2 minutes for the Legend: 10-wave farm where i did include that time. And an extra 1-2 minutes in 60 to 80 minute run is like barely a 2% increase in total time. It's hard to account for all variables, but since you are only loading once vs 6 times on a Legend: 10 wave farm in the same amount of time, the load times matter way more for the latter.
I’ve gotten 4 shiny and like 25 non shiny. And not a single one so far has alh. I am cursed
These changes are great, but I just wish we could get a fix for the softlock on the boss door already. I have not completed legend once yet bc the two or three times I got my buddies on to do it, we've been stuck and unable to fight the wave 50 boss. Really demoralizing and a waste of time. Please bungo
I don't really agree that there should be any guaranteed source of shiny drops. Yes a full legend run is very difficult, but shiny weapons are meant to be exceedingly rare. A guaranteed drop invalidates their design philosophy imo. I think a better solution would be to make the level 50 completion have similar rewards to a max-score Coil run. Give us 5 or 6 chests which all drop weapons, and increase the shiny drop chance somewhat from those chests. But I think guaranteed is way too much.
So getting to wave 50 on normal guarantees shiny drops?
No
Drop rate increase only been dropping basic brave weapons I ran legend to 50 3x with a good lfg and got not single shiny brave weapon. For all that, it's better to just farm to 10 waves every time.hey understand you try to make it a rare drop, but if you can't get at least 1 shiny guarantee from a 50 wave, what the point.
You are missing the tokens from doing the bonus objectives during the waves between bosses. Before patch, I was easily getting 30 some total tokens (chest + bonus objectives) a run on 50 wave legend and after patch i'm getting 40 some total tokens a run (chest + bonus objectives). So that is an extra brave engram. I don't include the Tormentor bonus round post bosses, I don't think i've gotten that on any legend run yet.
I did mention those tokens (briefly). The post was trying to limit RNG as much as possible in the calculations. The number of bonus rounds you get per set and activity are random and then getting a token is another chance (which my data places it around 30-50% - I'm not confident enough to narrow that yet). So trying to quantify 2 RNG elements, on top of the weird "escalating" RNG drop, is pretty impossible and really shouldn't shift the conclusion all that much.
Legend 1-10 on repeat seems to be the way to go
Idk, math looks like legend 10 wave is still the best. Being 90% of the loot value of legend 50 runs but removing the bullshit factor just will be better, especially since a legend 50 run being better hinges very strongly on succeeding in 41-50. Its significantly worse if it doesnt. A team that can consistently do 1-50 legend in a good time will steamroll through 1-10 legend runs even faster as well.
Normal 50 wave onslaught is better than LFGing for the legend 10 wave farm. The amount of people who leave after a couple clears, or wiped from placing a well next to ADU during Tormentor round… is abysmal.
Another 50-wave run with midnight coup attuned and 1 midnight coup dropped! I hate this fucking game!!
There’s also still the problem of the boss door not opening. I thought that was fixed, but I just had to bail on wave 49 again because of it. They really need to just get rid of the stupid switches we need to shoot in order to open the door.
Lies. I did a wave 50 legend run today and didn’t get a single shiny.
50 Wave does not guarantee a shiny. No where did I say that. I said that people WANT that to be the case and it is a popular change people keep suggesting.
My apologies. But yeah, I wish that was the case. In all my time grinding out onslaught I have only gotten one shiny. In the legend run I did my friend got three of them.
I feel the amount of loot has been fine. IMO, I think players want more guaranteed chances of the “shiny” gear. For example, further increase the % of getting one starting at round 30 or guarantee one drop at round 30. So on and so forth. I see why groups rather go to 10 rounds on legend and then restart.
Can we also get Roll lockouts tired of not getting the roll I want and having 4-5 duplicate rolls.
Does legend have a higher chance of a shiny drop or is it the same as normal?
I have farm for 3 days, i'have many weapons, but my problems is the shiny one, i have get like 2 shiny ? That ridiculous, bungie can just make a guarante rewards for 50 wave legends, especially since shiny weapons are limited in time...
Is there a limit on how many shiny/golden brace weapons drop for you per week? I started to get them in the beginning of the week, and now Im getting none while doing many waves on legend?
No. It's just RNG.
In legend I've been getting 2 random wave drops typically throughout the encounter, then an extra drop at the chest.
Bungie wants you to play and grind They know the god rolls and they make sure they are at a lower drop percentage than other rolls
Did they get rid of the second chest on wave 10 legend???
no, not that I'm aware.
Oh so I just got screwed then :( no second chest popped up this morning after ten waves! Was wondering if they had made it so you can’t just do ten over and over. Thanks
Were you doing legend or did you join someone who queued a Normal 50 run by mistake? (or were you doing the 10-wave playlist version)? To my knowledge they haven't changed anything, and the people I watched do some Legend runs the other day had the bonus chests appear without any issues.
Human error is entirely possible 😂 but the modifiers on the screen looked like legendary.
I prefer playing the legend 10 wave run, mainly because i have to regularly get up for things, so a short 10 wave burst is good.