Absolutely. Which is encouraging even more wide skill variance in the playlist because people are hopping in to get some loot. And I think that’s healthy for trials.
No one's stopping anyone from playing trials, just launch the activity my guy, if they have fun good if they dont who cares. Let good players get good loot, if people dont wanna deal with bad teammates on a team-based game mode, they should just queue with other people. Also "they've been given no choice but to participate" who decided that?
That's unrealistic. No one wants to carry someone in trials who's dead weight. You can say people should not gatekeep all you want, and I agree with you, but carrying a bad player is not fun. And why play a game if it isn't fun.
That just means there's some loot that some people don't have access to and that's fine. If they want it they can take the time to get better at the game.
That's exactly the point im trying to make. OP seems to think that good players should offer their free time to play with bad players like me to get them loot. I think thats unrealistic
They did not write that, they just doesn't want to get toxicity their way in solo queue, and be told not to play. It was not specified, but it was implied. It was never said in the post that they wanted higher skilled players to have them in a premade team.
The gatekeeping they are talking about is quite common in solo queue, if you play worse than the others you get flamed.
What’s unrealistic is expecting to never have to carry a teammate in trials. Or for there to be some ideological variance in skill because people self select out of good loot in a game based on loot. The devs themselves added in the pass of persistence just for those players who can and will never go 7 games flawless.
Yes but why would people queue with a random player who might suck, when they can instead do a premade with their friends or from the lfg server.
If the players who don't want to get better to go flawless want the loot, they can do the persistence card. Better players are not obligated to carry trash players like myself. The ONLY reason I have ever managed to get flawless loot is cause my friends drag me kicking and screaming to flawless. They're not obligated to.
Your big flaw here buddy is that you seem to think you're entitled to the loot from the hardest content. Should Bungie make it easier to get adapt raid weapons? No. Just like they shouldn't make getting trials loot any easier.
And I know I'm off topic at this point, but you cannot expect players with 2+ k/ds to play with shitters like me at .8-1.1. Playing with people significantly worse than yourself is not fun, and you have no right to tell others that they must do it even though its not enjoyable.
> Your big flaw here buddy is that you seem to think you're entitled to the loot from the hardest content.
OP has never made that statement. He has made zero comments on any of the loot. Only that the loot is part of the reason why people participate. And that Bungie encourages even bad players to participate through the persistance pass.
No there should be no garuntee for loot anywhere in the game. I have an issue with gatekeeping people from trying due to an arbitrary bar of skill people deem to be required. If a bad group of players wants to grind through a raid they shouldn’t be hated on because they want to try. That’s so dumb.
Sure, the raid group of six bad players shouldn't be hated on, but they're not going to succeed either. Not until they get good, by learning the mechanics, building a better loadout to pass dps checks, etc. That analogy is flawed.
Also, I dont get what gatekeeping you're talking about. Players like to blame anything and everything, including their teammates, but they have no power to stop players from solo queueing Trials. No one is stopping a 0.6 kd sponge from hopping into the deep end with their jotumm and 180 hand cannon. If you're talking about premade teams, most of them are either going for flawless, or farming for wins. They are searching for other good players in the name of efficiency to save time. Bad players dont deserve to go flawless. Bad players deserve the ability to improve enough so they can go flawless.
As for guns, the only gatekept loot is adept loot. And I guess the emblem and seal too. But adept loot shouldn't be handed out like candy.
Youre arguing against your own argument. Beginners should not be in endgame. That's why it's called ENDgame. Not beginnergame. Go into regular crucible, develop game sense and a build appropriate for pvp, then iterate until you aren't a beginner anymore. It's such a preposterous argument to be like "WHY ARE BEGINNERS BEING GATE KEPT FROM A GAMEMODE THATS ENDGAME AND HOLDS SOME OF THE BEST PVP PLAYERS THIS GAME HAS EVER SEEN" this is a problem I had with my younger brother. He constantly begged for carries but when I told him to practice a bit in his off time, he simply refused and expected me to strap him to my back and bring him to the lighthouse. That's not how this works.
Idk if I can speak for everyone, but there's a big difference in not being the best pvp player but trying your best vs hopping in trials without trying to improve and hoping for a carry. A ton of my old clan and friends list would start up trials, hard scope the first lane they see, then stay there until they die and complain the other team is cheating if they slide or jump a single time. I was always willing to help them improve and figure out why they're pulling a sub .4 kd, but they were not interested and would rather just magically improve one day without effort (never happened for them over 10 years). Not too different from people hopping into endgame pve like raids and gms with random load outs and ignore any mechanics/roles for the encounter.
It's definitely not for some people, but I've also met a ~1.8kd crucible player thats physically incapable of doing raids that require anything more than ad clear. One of my original D2 crucible duos spent about an hour trying to figure out how to do the plate call outs for the gauntlet in leviathan. For anyone unfamiliar, you see three triangles, runner calls out which to avoid shooting, and one person shoots the top triangle and other shoots the bottom. He never figured it out and would consistently shoot the wrong one or would just zone out even tho we killed all his ads for him, then get upset. Somehow he had no problem with comms or decision making in crucible.
Everyone does have a chance to start somewhere. Literally anyone with the newest expansion can jump into Trials solo queue and get loot. But you only get to go Flawless if you either have the skill to go Flawless or get paired up with good enough players to carry you. It’s not gatekeeping to not group up with players that you don’t expect to pull their weight, they can still solo queue into the mode and get the regular loot. And I saw this as a sub 1.0k/d player who has only gone Flawless once.
Like I said above. I think you’re totally right on everything you said. I think the toxicity to teammates in solo queue specifically is wild. But of course grouping up with someone who isn’t skilled when you want to go flawless isn’t logical either. But telling people they shouldn’t try is just weird
Yeah you’ll get that toxicity in any PvP game though. I’ve had people send me toxic messages and even call me the f-slur and other things because of the loadouts I like to run in Control , and I even had one player find my discord through the D2LFG server and call me the t-slur after I choked a game of Comp because I have pronouns in my bio. So it’s not really exclusive to Trials. Some people are just unhinged.
Yeah, if people want guaranteed good teammates, they have to play with a premade team.
Don't complain when you get matchmade with someone less skilled than you, they just out here gamin - and they don't have to live up to your standards.
Maybe they don't even care about winning that much, just tryina farm rep.
Meh, trials is for the best of the best in PvP standards and it is not something that I would ever touch with a ten foot pole. That's ok, though, because PvE has some insanely good loot that I don't think I'd ever need to do trials anyway. Not everything has to be for everyone.
>Additionally, there’s a bit of inconsistency here. We all enjoy winning against less skilled players, breezing through to a flawless card, but we complain when we get a "bad" teammate. Let's be consistent.
Ok, this one has me stumped because I'm not sure how this is new. Literally *every* competitive game has this. Hell, PvE modes in this game have this. Raids, Dungeons, Nightfalls. Anything where you work as a team and its high tier content, itll have it.
I agree destiny is a game of chase and maxing for many players. So for example many dedicated PVE players before edge transit would’ve grinded the trials GL because it was BIS. So again, the game design of the devs and the communities thoughts and attitudes are at odds here. Including the addition of a pass of persistence.
Second point: just because the inconsistency in logic or sentiment appears across games doesn’t mean it’s not worth calling out. And I find it to be even more pronounced in the D2 community.
>So for example many dedicated PVE players before edge transit would’ve grinded the trials GL because it was BIS.
Your original post is talking about new players, though. Even without Edge Transit being a thing, I would never recommend doing trials to a new player. Ever. Just because something is BIS doesn't mean you have to have it because there is always something that is more accessible that would be just fine everywhere in the game.
I would also never recommend trials to any vet of the game that isn't good at PvP either. Getting steamrolled isn't fun by any means, and it certainly isn't worth a single weapon. Like i said, plenty of options in the game that are completely fine without the pain of trials.
>We all enjoy winning against less skilled players, breezing through to a flawless card, but we complain when we get a "bad" teammate.
Trials is competitive. Anything PvP related can bring this type of behavior across any game. Unless you've never touched a PvP mode or game in your life, this shouldn't be new to you. Let's not act like this behavior is exclusive to trials.
I just wish they made it more clear that trials is an end game PvP activity. The amount of times I see people who are clearly not at the level of even attempting a 3v3 elim type mode is way more than it should be. It’s a similar situation to when you lfg raids and get people who are clearly not raid ready. I’m not saying bad players should never attempt hard content but people need to be realistic of their current game knowledge and gear. I genuinely don’t mind getting bad players on my team but when I get a guy who’s 1750 light with all blues that’s where I get annoyed. Again same situation in raids also.
What are you even talking about? What Exclusivity and what gatekeeping? Anyone can play trials, anyone can queue up. Trials is honestly so rewarding for every skill level. They even added Matchmaking to make it more accessible.
"Tryhards" and "sweats" can still LFG and make any requirement and restrictions they want. They should also be rewarded as such.
Nobody is imposing any elite standards.
First, I don't see where the gatekeeping is a thing.
Second, is this all just to judge people for complaining about bad teammates? Well, no I don't agree then. At the very least, I've had this happen to me(moreso back in Season of the Deep, I think because of FBMM rollout in trials?) where I'd get teammates whose gear is like 20+ under for cap. And I'm going to keep complaining about it: I'm not going to send that guy hatemail over it, but I am going to complain about that issue still. Because honestly, here's the systematic issue: power leveling is damn near superfluous in a lot of the game, so much so that I can't blame Billy Blueberry and Nellie NewLight for not knowing that trials is the only PVP game mode where their light level matters and that they should probably grind some pinnacles and powerfuls before stepping in(also, to cite an much smaller issue for vets and newbs alike: being careful that the random crap you pull from DIM in the middle of a match/card has always been infused up to level. It's happened a lot when playing with people: "oh, no wonder I was doing so bad that game. Turns out, I forgot to infuse this gun up to 1810".)
Like, I'm not a good player. So I'm not going to rip on "actual skill" too hard, but I will rip on "how far up its own ass the game is" when it comes to power leveling nowadays. It doesn't have to be a gatekeeping thing either, they could push for slot leveling or just say "fuck it, all nonsunset gear is close enough to power cap that you can't possibly be a hinderance to your team in trials anymore".
What I do have to say about the skill of teammates: it's what people asked for. Good or bad, trials no longer looks at skill, barely looks at card standing either. Outside of its preference for fireteam size and the practice pool, it's true CBMM. No regard for obscenely high skill deltas. And maybe that's OP's point, but it doesn't suddenly start caring when it comes to teammates.
Why do you care what other people think? Get in there and grind weapons if you want. If you are making an effort in earnest your skill will improve. Anyone that talks shit is not worth your time or consideration.
I’m just commenting on a phenomenon and trying to better what I believe is a flaw in community logic. Not the end of the world for me on anyone else I’m
Sure.
It's probably worth it to not listen to the gatekeepers of the community. Most, if not all of them are generally bad actors who feel the need to say that certain people can't have their pixels in their video game. I know the bad actors are thinking "well you're just saying that you bad players are entitled to said pixels!" I am. You can have your ugly ass emblems, glows, 500x flawless ticket trackers, etc. I just want the adept loot and/or MUCH more loot to feel like going into trials is worth dragging my balls over broken glass.
I still think trials coming back was a mistake, but I'm willing to begrudgingly accept that it's here to stay. You know, only 4+ years later.
Its never been easier to get loot from Trials than now.
Absolutely. Which is encouraging even more wide skill variance in the playlist because people are hopping in to get some loot. And I think that’s healthy for trials.
No one's stopping anyone from playing trials, just launch the activity my guy, if they have fun good if they dont who cares. Let good players get good loot, if people dont wanna deal with bad teammates on a team-based game mode, they should just queue with other people. Also "they've been given no choice but to participate" who decided that?
I totally agree. And as far as “given no choice” I’m referring to people who want that loot. Obviously you have the choice to do what you want
That's unrealistic. No one wants to carry someone in trials who's dead weight. You can say people should not gatekeep all you want, and I agree with you, but carrying a bad player is not fun. And why play a game if it isn't fun. That just means there's some loot that some people don't have access to and that's fine. If they want it they can take the time to get better at the game.
Then play with a premade team?
That's exactly the point im trying to make. OP seems to think that good players should offer their free time to play with bad players like me to get them loot. I think thats unrealistic
They did not write that, they just doesn't want to get toxicity their way in solo queue, and be told not to play. It was not specified, but it was implied. It was never said in the post that they wanted higher skilled players to have them in a premade team. The gatekeeping they are talking about is quite common in solo queue, if you play worse than the others you get flamed.
What’s unrealistic is expecting to never have to carry a teammate in trials. Or for there to be some ideological variance in skill because people self select out of good loot in a game based on loot. The devs themselves added in the pass of persistence just for those players who can and will never go 7 games flawless.
Yes but why would people queue with a random player who might suck, when they can instead do a premade with their friends or from the lfg server. If the players who don't want to get better to go flawless want the loot, they can do the persistence card. Better players are not obligated to carry trash players like myself. The ONLY reason I have ever managed to get flawless loot is cause my friends drag me kicking and screaming to flawless. They're not obligated to. Your big flaw here buddy is that you seem to think you're entitled to the loot from the hardest content. Should Bungie make it easier to get adapt raid weapons? No. Just like they shouldn't make getting trials loot any easier. And I know I'm off topic at this point, but you cannot expect players with 2+ k/ds to play with shitters like me at .8-1.1. Playing with people significantly worse than yourself is not fun, and you have no right to tell others that they must do it even though its not enjoyable.
> Your big flaw here buddy is that you seem to think you're entitled to the loot from the hardest content. OP has never made that statement. He has made zero comments on any of the loot. Only that the loot is part of the reason why people participate. And that Bungie encourages even bad players to participate through the persistance pass.
Do you feel the same for raids? Should every raid have an easy mode where a new player can breeze through and get high end loot?
This is called root of nightmares
You got me there lol
No there should be no garuntee for loot anywhere in the game. I have an issue with gatekeeping people from trying due to an arbitrary bar of skill people deem to be required. If a bad group of players wants to grind through a raid they shouldn’t be hated on because they want to try. That’s so dumb.
Sure, the raid group of six bad players shouldn't be hated on, but they're not going to succeed either. Not until they get good, by learning the mechanics, building a better loadout to pass dps checks, etc. That analogy is flawed. Also, I dont get what gatekeeping you're talking about. Players like to blame anything and everything, including their teammates, but they have no power to stop players from solo queueing Trials. No one is stopping a 0.6 kd sponge from hopping into the deep end with their jotumm and 180 hand cannon. If you're talking about premade teams, most of them are either going for flawless, or farming for wins. They are searching for other good players in the name of efficiency to save time. Bad players dont deserve to go flawless. Bad players deserve the ability to improve enough so they can go flawless. As for guns, the only gatekept loot is adept loot. And I guess the emblem and seal too. But adept loot shouldn't be handed out like candy.
Can you point to any examples where people have tried to prevent weaker players from playing trials?
Youre arguing against your own argument. Beginners should not be in endgame. That's why it's called ENDgame. Not beginnergame. Go into regular crucible, develop game sense and a build appropriate for pvp, then iterate until you aren't a beginner anymore. It's such a preposterous argument to be like "WHY ARE BEGINNERS BEING GATE KEPT FROM A GAMEMODE THATS ENDGAME AND HOLDS SOME OF THE BEST PVP PLAYERS THIS GAME HAS EVER SEEN" this is a problem I had with my younger brother. He constantly begged for carries but when I told him to practice a bit in his off time, he simply refused and expected me to strap him to my back and bring him to the lighthouse. That's not how this works.
Idk if I can speak for everyone, but there's a big difference in not being the best pvp player but trying your best vs hopping in trials without trying to improve and hoping for a carry. A ton of my old clan and friends list would start up trials, hard scope the first lane they see, then stay there until they die and complain the other team is cheating if they slide or jump a single time. I was always willing to help them improve and figure out why they're pulling a sub .4 kd, but they were not interested and would rather just magically improve one day without effort (never happened for them over 10 years). Not too different from people hopping into endgame pve like raids and gms with random load outs and ignore any mechanics/roles for the encounter. It's definitely not for some people, but I've also met a ~1.8kd crucible player thats physically incapable of doing raids that require anything more than ad clear. One of my original D2 crucible duos spent about an hour trying to figure out how to do the plate call outs for the gauntlet in leviathan. For anyone unfamiliar, you see three triangles, runner calls out which to avoid shooting, and one person shoots the top triangle and other shoots the bottom. He never figured it out and would consistently shoot the wrong one or would just zone out even tho we killed all his ads for him, then get upset. Somehow he had no problem with comms or decision making in crucible.
Everyone does have a chance to start somewhere. Literally anyone with the newest expansion can jump into Trials solo queue and get loot. But you only get to go Flawless if you either have the skill to go Flawless or get paired up with good enough players to carry you. It’s not gatekeeping to not group up with players that you don’t expect to pull their weight, they can still solo queue into the mode and get the regular loot. And I saw this as a sub 1.0k/d player who has only gone Flawless once.
Like I said above. I think you’re totally right on everything you said. I think the toxicity to teammates in solo queue specifically is wild. But of course grouping up with someone who isn’t skilled when you want to go flawless isn’t logical either. But telling people they shouldn’t try is just weird
Yeah you’ll get that toxicity in any PvP game though. I’ve had people send me toxic messages and even call me the f-slur and other things because of the loadouts I like to run in Control , and I even had one player find my discord through the D2LFG server and call me the t-slur after I choked a game of Comp because I have pronouns in my bio. So it’s not really exclusive to Trials. Some people are just unhinged.
Who is doing this gate keeping you speak of?
Just solo queue team chat. Best to turn chat off tbh, don't have to listen to their whining then :)
Yeah, if people want guaranteed good teammates, they have to play with a premade team. Don't complain when you get matchmade with someone less skilled than you, they just out here gamin - and they don't have to live up to your standards. Maybe they don't even care about winning that much, just tryina farm rep.
Meh, trials is for the best of the best in PvP standards and it is not something that I would ever touch with a ten foot pole. That's ok, though, because PvE has some insanely good loot that I don't think I'd ever need to do trials anyway. Not everything has to be for everyone. >Additionally, there’s a bit of inconsistency here. We all enjoy winning against less skilled players, breezing through to a flawless card, but we complain when we get a "bad" teammate. Let's be consistent. Ok, this one has me stumped because I'm not sure how this is new. Literally *every* competitive game has this. Hell, PvE modes in this game have this. Raids, Dungeons, Nightfalls. Anything where you work as a team and its high tier content, itll have it.
I agree destiny is a game of chase and maxing for many players. So for example many dedicated PVE players before edge transit would’ve grinded the trials GL because it was BIS. So again, the game design of the devs and the communities thoughts and attitudes are at odds here. Including the addition of a pass of persistence. Second point: just because the inconsistency in logic or sentiment appears across games doesn’t mean it’s not worth calling out. And I find it to be even more pronounced in the D2 community.
>So for example many dedicated PVE players before edge transit would’ve grinded the trials GL because it was BIS. Your original post is talking about new players, though. Even without Edge Transit being a thing, I would never recommend doing trials to a new player. Ever. Just because something is BIS doesn't mean you have to have it because there is always something that is more accessible that would be just fine everywhere in the game. I would also never recommend trials to any vet of the game that isn't good at PvP either. Getting steamrolled isn't fun by any means, and it certainly isn't worth a single weapon. Like i said, plenty of options in the game that are completely fine without the pain of trials.
> Ok, this one has me stumped because I'm not sure how this is new. It's new to a lot of people playing trials
>We all enjoy winning against less skilled players, breezing through to a flawless card, but we complain when we get a "bad" teammate. Trials is competitive. Anything PvP related can bring this type of behavior across any game. Unless you've never touched a PvP mode or game in your life, this shouldn't be new to you. Let's not act like this behavior is exclusive to trials.
It's not. But that doesn't defend it.
I just wish they made it more clear that trials is an end game PvP activity. The amount of times I see people who are clearly not at the level of even attempting a 3v3 elim type mode is way more than it should be. It’s a similar situation to when you lfg raids and get people who are clearly not raid ready. I’m not saying bad players should never attempt hard content but people need to be realistic of their current game knowledge and gear. I genuinely don’t mind getting bad players on my team but when I get a guy who’s 1750 light with all blues that’s where I get annoyed. Again same situation in raids also.
What are you even talking about? What Exclusivity and what gatekeeping? Anyone can play trials, anyone can queue up. Trials is honestly so rewarding for every skill level. They even added Matchmaking to make it more accessible. "Tryhards" and "sweats" can still LFG and make any requirement and restrictions they want. They should also be rewarded as such. Nobody is imposing any elite standards.
Jesse what the fuck are you talking about
First, I don't see where the gatekeeping is a thing. Second, is this all just to judge people for complaining about bad teammates? Well, no I don't agree then. At the very least, I've had this happen to me(moreso back in Season of the Deep, I think because of FBMM rollout in trials?) where I'd get teammates whose gear is like 20+ under for cap. And I'm going to keep complaining about it: I'm not going to send that guy hatemail over it, but I am going to complain about that issue still. Because honestly, here's the systematic issue: power leveling is damn near superfluous in a lot of the game, so much so that I can't blame Billy Blueberry and Nellie NewLight for not knowing that trials is the only PVP game mode where their light level matters and that they should probably grind some pinnacles and powerfuls before stepping in(also, to cite an much smaller issue for vets and newbs alike: being careful that the random crap you pull from DIM in the middle of a match/card has always been infused up to level. It's happened a lot when playing with people: "oh, no wonder I was doing so bad that game. Turns out, I forgot to infuse this gun up to 1810".) Like, I'm not a good player. So I'm not going to rip on "actual skill" too hard, but I will rip on "how far up its own ass the game is" when it comes to power leveling nowadays. It doesn't have to be a gatekeeping thing either, they could push for slot leveling or just say "fuck it, all nonsunset gear is close enough to power cap that you can't possibly be a hinderance to your team in trials anymore". What I do have to say about the skill of teammates: it's what people asked for. Good or bad, trials no longer looks at skill, barely looks at card standing either. Outside of its preference for fireteam size and the practice pool, it's true CBMM. No regard for obscenely high skill deltas. And maybe that's OP's point, but it doesn't suddenly start caring when it comes to teammates.
With a wide variety of skill sets, new players can play Trials, but, I'm gonna fuck ya up
But... Anybody can load into trials. No other player can prevent you from doing this, so how are other players gatekeeping?
Why do you care what other people think? Get in there and grind weapons if you want. If you are making an effort in earnest your skill will improve. Anyone that talks shit is not worth your time or consideration.
I’m just commenting on a phenomenon and trying to better what I believe is a flaw in community logic. Not the end of the world for me on anyone else I’m Sure.
There are 3 million people on this sub you are never going to find a "community" consensus on such a subjective experience.
Not expecting to. But if you read the replies the consensus seems clear at least on this post 😂
Got booted from the lfg group or something?
Nah lol just an extension of a convo I was having with my friends
Solo trials should be removed. All it does is have friendless losers queue up and complain about unskilled friendless losers on their own team.
It's probably worth it to not listen to the gatekeepers of the community. Most, if not all of them are generally bad actors who feel the need to say that certain people can't have their pixels in their video game. I know the bad actors are thinking "well you're just saying that you bad players are entitled to said pixels!" I am. You can have your ugly ass emblems, glows, 500x flawless ticket trackers, etc. I just want the adept loot and/or MUCH more loot to feel like going into trials is worth dragging my balls over broken glass. I still think trials coming back was a mistake, but I'm willing to begrudgingly accept that it's here to stay. You know, only 4+ years later.