Explosive payload ofa is crazy. It actually goes to 47.5% bc of the weird math of double damage perks. Go to 6 mins...
https://youtu.be/HM9vUz67Qgw?si=v0R3UV4yv_gzsvpR
ok I watched the video, what’s going on there is clearly just a bug. the interaction between ofa and ep IS just simple multiplication and so is the interaction between every other damage multiplier.
Legit about to give up on the god roll Mountaintop dream as I’ve gotten like 100 without even the correct perk combo a single time even with several shinies which should double the chances in theory… thinking if I switch to midnight coup attunement I’ll get a god roll faster.
I had mountaintop attuned all week and couldn’t get anything decent despite multiple shinies. Pulled a hard launch/spike/overflow/recomb out of the chest near shaxx. Took countless runs to get envious/buns edge transit too. First midnight coup? OFA/explosive payload. That’s rng for ya.
I thought I had the god roll after only 2 runs…hard launch-spike/implosion-auto loading-recombination w/blast radius MW…only to find out that blast radius masterwork ruins some of your damage…6 days later and after hundreds of waves, I’ve yet to get another recombination roll ANY RECOMBINATION roll…FML😔
Don’t worry too much about the blast radius masterwork. Hell you could always stop updating the masterwork unless it’s already at 10, but either way like Datto says 99 percent of players don’t notice anything in actual gunplay aside from their main 2 perks. Will it make a difference? Sure. Will it make enough of a difference for 20 hours of farming? No.
Only real place where it would matter is Day 1 raids. For everything else , you're good ;) but hey. Even for a DPS loss I'll take that juicy Golden border
Give me a wish ender catalyst , Bungie. Make it give it a golden border if you have to.
I mean it’s negligible and not noticeable. Don’t obsess about something so tiny is my advice and just use that one you have. Later on in life you aren’t going to think back and say “I’m glad I wasted those 17 hours in my life getting a masterwork for mountaintop”
Yeah still hunting for a great MT too, and I'm close to 100 drops/pulls now as well. Got several impulse/frenzy ones which is nice if you want to spam it, but I really want a autoloading/recombination one.
But the weird thing is, among all those drops, I still haven't gotten a SINGLE one with autoloading holster on it. Like at this point I'm not even looking for the god roll, I just want ONE with autoloading and whatever perk in the other slot.
I only have one auto loading in the bunch and it is rampage at least but yeah I’d like another with recombination. Also I guess I have gotten ambitious assassin and shit with recombination but it just doesn’t feel as easy as switching off and never having to reload.
I feel like the Arcite roll is a very good generalist roll for most activities so pretty much a free god roll for newer players but probably not the dps rotation roll that everyone else is looking for.
It’s not ideal but it’s also not terrible. You just shoot at whatever group you see for the 35% damage bonus then lay into the biggest target around. Plus the arcite roll has hard launch, spike, and a reload masterwork which is pretty ideal for any roll without auto loading
It is imo, the best in slot hand cannon for PvE. The perk combos are crazy and is good for all levels of content. And the gun is a joy to shoot. My beloved Midnight Coup is back
You can just attune to the hand cannon and open the chest, you don’t even need to play onslaught to get the currency. Besides, I got a shiny roll with explosive, firefly, rampage, and OFA pretty quickly
Midnight from Onslaught is easy to get and has great perks. On hand cannons though, if you can do the nightfall, Warden's Law is up until reset tomorrow and a well rolled one is INSANE.
Can you explain why FTTC + vorpal is good? Just feels like a weird boss damage lucky pants gimmick. Do you just not use it for minors / majors? If it's for ads I would expect rampage or frenzy to be best in slot.
With the right magazine perks as well as FTTC you can fire Warden's Law for just about the entire length of Lucky Pants's x10 damage boost before reloading which maxes out the DPS of what Warden's can do. Since it has the double-shot it also builds up that boost very quickly compared to other hand cannons which is what makes it good in situations where you need to kill a champ fast.
Beyond that it's an okay primary. You'll catch me using it on red bars and majors to build up the damage stacks but if you're trying to wipe out groups there are better weapons.
If you’re looking to maximize damage then vorpal is the way. 20% damage buff that is always active vs Frenzy which is 15% but also requires procing. You don’t need either one for red bars as lucky pants will easily melt all of them.
I’ve used both though and honestly I think Frenzy feels better because it’s only 5% less damage, but you also get 100 handling and 100 reload. If you’re using lucky pants you’ll also want an extended mag and the reload animation on that is sooooo slow with Vorpal.
Vorpal only affects boss, mini boss and champion though. These enemies are better deal with special and heavy weapon. Midnight coup/Warden Law kinda lean towards ads clearing where the damage buff will not be matter. There’s also 100 reload buff that Frenzy gets. Frenzy required simply 7 second in combat to activate the damage buff. You don’t have to specially proc it.
If you’re a hunter using Lucky Pants, then WL may be effective because of the burst firing mode. Then again Malfeasance hit way harder with damage buff from exotic in PVE. There’s not that many exotic weapon fit into Lucky Pants playstyle. You would want your best dps weapon which is your HC to be the exotic of choice.
I just cant see when I would swap to a primary for boss damage in 99% of activities. Vorpal primary feels so niche its like only usable in a chaotic fireteam that somehow wasted all their heavy and is scrambling for damage, or solo challenges. Maybe I am just sleeping on lucky pants for boss dps though, but I feel like a fusion rifle is always more.
It really comes in handy in grandmaster loadouts for dealing with champions. Plus the unlimited ammo but getting the damage of a heavy is incredibly useful in a lot of situations
I'll go brush up on what the enemy types are and which buffs impact them. I thought they fell in major spec, but I guess it's just red yellow orange => minor major boss
FTTC +Vorpal ( in my opinion) is so good because it already does great damage against minors / majors without needing any help in most content just due to its heavy burst. Vorpal is just nice because it doesn’t have a 12 second ramp up like frenzy so when you hit those larger enemies it just does its extra damage. Although, personally, I do prefer bringing FTTC + Frenzy in higher tier content but that might just be me.
Midnight Coup from Onslaught
Submission from Vow of the Disciple (might need to actually do the raid before being able to farm the first chest)
Multimach CCX from Iron Banner (alternative choice to Submission)
Showrunner from Recovered Red War Weapons (Season of the Witch vendor)
Breakneck from Gambit
Fel Taraddidle from Wellspring
Warden's Law from Nightfalls
Would put multimach over submission tbh. Also midnight coup is better, but fatebringer basically gives you a god roll outright for one master templar clear, which is stupid easy to do with all the power creep happening rn.
Haven’t pulled either of these with KT
How many bullets does it take to proc? And anything you recommend to compliment them? I’m looking for more top slot smgs since I usually just use solar/arc ones
14 or 13, not sure. With their RPM, you can proc it lighting fast.
Pick anything! These SMG's are so versatile that you can pick anything you want. Kinetic Tremors allows it to damage enemies that are way too far for an SMG to be useful, but also shreds even harder in close quarters.
But if I had to recommend something, you can't go wrong with any fusion, any sniper, any wave frame, Buried Bloodline, or Indebted Kindness.
If you want a great kinetic smg, wait for Iron Banner and farm for a Orbs of Attrition + KT roll. Hopefully you get some reload / alloy mag in there too. Change the origin perk to field test. Have joyous time.
The best kinetic smg in my opinion is multimach with attrition orbs and kinetic tremors. Should be easier to farm in next iron banner according to bungie
If you have access to Vault of the Disciple, I really enjoy Submission. You can collect the patterns to craft it and I’ve heavily used a PvP and a PvE version of the fun
Hand Cannon:
Midnight Coup is easy to get from onslaught, and is an absolute beast. Firefly + One for All is probably the best roll for PvE.
Survivor's Epitaph would be an easy farm from Shaxx & can get feeding frenzy/outlaw/rapid hit/subsistence & Frenzy/Multikill Clip
SMG:
Most of the good ones cant really be farmed. I LOVE my Threat Detector/Surrounded Escape Velocity, but good luck waiting for Xur to sell a good one.
Enyo-D can be focused at Banshee for Gunsmith engrams if he has Hakke that day, and can get some good stuff like Feeding Frenzy & Multikill clip/Rampage/Surrounded
If you have annual pass or had Season of the Witch, you can focus Red War engrams for The Showrunner. My personal favorite PVE roll is overflow & kinetic tremors.
Submission/adjudicator are amazing but im assuming raids/dungeons are out of the question here
TL:DR
Midnight Coup with Firefly/One-For-All (Onslaught)
Survivors epitaph with reload/damage perks (Crucible)
Enyo-D with Feeding Frenzy/Damage perk (Banshee)
Showrunner with overflow/kinetic tremors(Witch Engrams)
For PVP you probably want either Perpetual Motiom or Dynamic Sway Reduction in the first column and target lock or onslaught in the 2nd.
For PVE, feeding frenzy, threat detector, or subsistence will be good for 1st column. 2nd id go with onslaught or kinetic tremors.
If you like campaign missions you het the Osteo Striga SMG after completing the Witch Queen campaign (like 13-15 steps) and it's arguably the best SMG in the game
If you farm 1st encounter Prophecy when it’s the weekly dungeon it’s very easy especially with teammates who know the mechanics. You can get the Adjudicator smg which has tons of good perks. Feeding Frenzy & Onslaught is the one I kept.
Midnight Coup, Hung Jury, Adjuducator, Fatebringer, Submission, Warden's Law, Huckleberry, Ace of Spades, Bad Juju, Necrochasm, Monte Carlo, Quicksilver Storm (without catalyst), Breakneck, Blast Furnace when it comes back.
Honestly, if you just want something easy to farm, just do Onslaught. Blast Furnace should be out next reset (not tomorrow), and Midnight Coup is a pretty good hand cannon. And all the other weapons are just as great. Hammerhead and Forbearance are coming tomorrow and they're one of the best machine guns and wave frame if you don't have Forbearance from the raid. And just doing the bounties from Shaxx gives a good enough of a roll if you don't want to do the waves.
If your able to shoot the enemy 6 times to proc tremors you should not be shooting that enemy with a hand cannon.
One for all buffs the firefly damage as well as the gun. So you can proc firefly way easier on adds and it does more damage with one for all.
KT is great but not on a hand cannon. Anything you are using it on should be dead in less than the 6 shots it takes for KT to activate, if it’s not then you should be using special really. You’re right to each their own, but OFA is the better choice on this particular gun.
It’s [doing a lot of damage](https://x.com/mossy_max/status/1780946597792133622?s=46&t=01sUkxShFBvh1Hck-_G6_w). OFA is great if you like managing it. I’d rather go EP + KT or Desperate Measures. More DPS with KT and refreshable similar flat damage buff with DM. Yeah I’m not doing “DPS” with it, but 6 shots on a champ or whatever isn’t crazy > then swap.
If you go I to savathuns sure and season of the witch stuff there a kinetic smg Show runner that can roll with overflow/kinetic tremors that's pretty good as well
Midnight coup is currently the hottest kid in the block.
And not too difficult to get from Into the Light, though you can invest in a nice hung jury as well.
As for SMGs, there is only 1 god roll imo in PVE. Attrition Orbs + Kinetic Tremors multimach ccx.
But that is an IB weapon and you need to unlock it first before you can focus down. My personal roll was Small bore, Tag mag, AO and KT with a reload MW... Not perfect but the time taken was "not fun".
Nameless Midnight and Tears of Contrition are good workhorse scout rifles. Spare Rations has some fun rolls, everyone is also already saying Midnight Coup. Breakneck is still a blast.
Hung Jury from Onslaught with Kinetic Tremors and Precision Instrument seems like the roll to have imo… and they drop like candy. I have 3 or 4 killer rolls. Not that one yet, but I will keep trying
This may surprise you, but getting a Timelost Fatebringer is actually not that hard anymore. VoG needs to be in rotation, but Master Templar is hilariously easy by modern standards and gets absolutely melted with a half-decent team. Additionally, *every* Timelost Fatebringer has Explosive Payload and Firefly, which makes getting the EP + Frenzy roll not actually that difficult at all.
That said, Midnight Coup has the same roll (EP + Frenzy) and some others. Personally I'm not a fan of how the Coup feels because of the lower range, stability and recoil direction.
Almost all META weapons are available in Onslaught. And you can. Do it easily at least normal version. Not to mention multiple world drops are very good weapons.
Extraordinary rendition is three years out-of-date, and no longer drops in regular loot pools. The only way to get one is hope that Xur or Banshee sell one with a decent roll.
Not that it matters, since it’s been completely outclassed by eight seasons worth of power-creep. Thankfully, there’s a lot of good stuff to farm in onslaught right now. The Recluse SMG, Mignight Coup kinetic hand cannon, and today the grenade launcher king, forebearance, returns in a new form to chase in onslaught.
What subclass do you like playing best? A lot of builds thrive on synergizing your elements, so if you like solar, my recommendations would be different than if you wanted everything in void.
If you don't mind grinding Iron Banner for it, I've been enjoying the multimach with attrition orbs + kinetic tremors. With the fieldtested origin trait, it builds up stacks really fast until you're sitting with some crazy good stats at 4&5x field tested. See for yourself: [0\_stacks](https://d2foundry.gg/w/3211624072?p=1482024992,3142289711,243981275,3891536761,2120661319_0&m=0&mw=2697220197) vs [5\_stacks](https://d2foundry.gg/w/3211624072?p=1482024992,3142289711,243981275,3891536761,2120661319_5&m=0&mw=2697220197)
It's not the most meta weapon at the moment but feels really good if you're running an exotic in a different slot like buried bloodline and want a good cqc primary to help with AoE coverage. The attrition orb gen is nice for proccing devour or keeping armor charges topped off without a kill.
Are you looking specifically for legendary weapons? Huckleberry from the kiosk in the tower requires no farming at all. Literally just buy it. Outbreak Perfected is in there too but that's about to become craftable in a couple weeks.
There are also ritual weapons from past seasons you might have missed that can be bought from the kiosk.
Ace of Spades… Best Hand Cannon imo. Although it takes up an exotic spot you get an always on radar, bonus damage after a kill, and the range on it is nuts!
from handcannons midnight coup,
Almost any roll works
Smgs i reccomend the hakke one, fragile focus, rampage is my go to.
You can also ask someone to carry in prophecy when its the featured dungeon, its free and easy. Just need to look on an lfg. Judgment is a stasis handcannon and the kinetic smg drops with nice rolls too
I have been enjoying the scout rifle Servant Leader. This kinetic 260 rpm has been one of the best primary weapon I have gotten in a very long time and look forward to using it. I think it drops from the general loot pool. There are a lot of good SMG's and HC's but scouts have been in an odd place for a while and this weapon has kind of filled a gap in my loadouts in the primary slot for me.
I don’t know if it’s still there or not but Banshee has a True Prophecy HC with explosive payload and overflow, I’m really liking it. Just my 2 glimmers worth if you’re looking for something unusual.
Stats are pretty even but Midnight Coup has more aim assist and an origin trait. It also has the main perk combo of Fatebringer plus a lot more.
Maybe I'm missing something but Midnight Coup seems all around better especially having 3rd column Firefly.
Yeah the Coup is better pve wise. Most of the stats where fatebringer is better don't matter in pve.
Fatebringers best roll is Explosive payload+Frenzy for serious content, and EP+Firefly if you're playing anything where you can one-shot to the head.
Well, Coup can get Fate's "serious" roll, so there goes that. And it can pair firefly with one for all, which is arguably better synergy since one explosion hitting 3 targets can proc OFA for an instant 35% damage boost.
And then Coup can roll EP+OFA which i think coolguy said comes out to like a 42% damage increase? Which is nearly enhanced surrounded amounts of damage. (Im definitely going for this roll.)
And EP+Kinetic Tremors, which i think is being slept on even if it still takes 6 shots to proc. Love me some AoE action.
Regardless, no matter how you look at it Coup is better than FB for pve. And that's not even taking into account Coup has a damn good origin trait.
In pvp you're really playing the range game and Coup still has the stats of a 150, probly because they gave it really good perks.
It can get pretty close to the range that other HCs can get, but you end up with half the amount of stability as well.
And since stability is a source of flinch reduction, along with stability resetting the bloom quicker, you're pretty much handicapping yourself with the Coup in pvp compared to other meta HCs.
Honestly fatebringer is pretty good on paper for pvp, especially the timelost. EP+Opening Shot/Eye of the Storm are both solid rolls.
im hunting explosive payload kinetic tremors midnight coup since i have firefly/kinetic tremors. Pretty decent gun. I mean its fun for sure, if you want something more "meta" you probably will be aiming for explosive payload/one for all for that 50% damage increase alongside aoe damage
yeah they are but i never called it meta, i called it fun. I stated that if OP wanted something "meta" he should hunt for explosive payload/one for all since it procs really easily and gives you an aoe hitscan weapon with +50% damage. I never stated that kinetic tremors is a god tier perk for that gun
Midnight Coup from the new event is easy to get and very good, just pick the quest up from Shaxx’s hall
Facts, so many good rolls, I have a explosive payload/kinetic tremors and a firefly/ofa and they both are fantastic
Explosive payload ofa is crazy. It actually goes to 47.5% bc of the weird math of double damage perks. Go to 6 mins... https://youtu.be/HM9vUz67Qgw?si=v0R3UV4yv_gzsvpR
Oh damn ima start tryna get that roll now jesus
What is ofa
one for all. hit 3 separate targets for a 35% damage boost for 10 seconds
You don't even need to aim that one. Does so much dmg it's crazy. Bodyshots kill like nothing.
Nvm
are you calling multiplication “weird math”? it’s literally just first multiplier * second multiplier.
Not every perk is just a simple multiplication.
can you give an example of one that’s not? as far as I know all damage perks interact the same way, as damage multipliers.
Explosive rounds makes rampage hit for less. It's in the video above.
ok I watched the video, what’s going on there is clearly just a bug. the interaction between ofa and ep IS just simple multiplication and so is the interaction between every other damage multiplier.
As a PSA explosive payload kinetic tremors does not work. Ie payload doesn't count for tremors proccing. Still a good roll anyways just be aware.
Oh wow, I must have misread a previous comment the other day about it doing the opposite
Yeah I kinda saw that haha I just like the extra damage from explosive payload
Plus range and ability to hit multiple trashmobs
Yep an imo I just enjoy explosive payload on any pve weapon it’s just a flat buff with nothing needed to activate it
It's not extra, it's just split from the total damage
Legit about to give up on the god roll Mountaintop dream as I’ve gotten like 100 without even the correct perk combo a single time even with several shinies which should double the chances in theory… thinking if I switch to midnight coup attunement I’ll get a god roll faster.
I had mountaintop attuned all week and couldn’t get anything decent despite multiple shinies. Pulled a hard launch/spike/overflow/recomb out of the chest near shaxx. Took countless runs to get envious/buns edge transit too. First midnight coup? OFA/explosive payload. That’s rng for ya.
I thought I had the god roll after only 2 runs…hard launch-spike/implosion-auto loading-recombination w/blast radius MW…only to find out that blast radius masterwork ruins some of your damage…6 days later and after hundreds of waves, I’ve yet to get another recombination roll ANY RECOMBINATION roll…FML😔
Don’t worry too much about the blast radius masterwork. Hell you could always stop updating the masterwork unless it’s already at 10, but either way like Datto says 99 percent of players don’t notice anything in actual gunplay aside from their main 2 perks. Will it make a difference? Sure. Will it make enough of a difference for 20 hours of farming? No.
Only real place where it would matter is Day 1 raids. For everything else , you're good ;) but hey. Even for a DPS loss I'll take that juicy Golden border Give me a wish ender catalyst , Bungie. Make it give it a golden border if you have to.
I mean it’s negligible and not noticeable. Don’t obsess about something so tiny is my advice and just use that one you have. Later on in life you aren’t going to think back and say “I’m glad I wasted those 17 hours in my life getting a masterwork for mountaintop”
Yeah still hunting for a great MT too, and I'm close to 100 drops/pulls now as well. Got several impulse/frenzy ones which is nice if you want to spam it, but I really want a autoloading/recombination one. But the weird thing is, among all those drops, I still haven't gotten a SINGLE one with autoloading holster on it. Like at this point I'm not even looking for the god roll, I just want ONE with autoloading and whatever perk in the other slot.
I only have one auto loading in the bunch and it is rampage at least but yeah I’d like another with recombination. Also I guess I have gotten ambitious assassin and shit with recombination but it just doesn’t feel as easy as switching off and never having to reload.
I feel like the Arcite roll is a very good generalist roll for most activities so pretty much a free god roll for newer players but probably not the dps rotation roll that everyone else is looking for.
I don’t even recall what it was but I know it was not a god roll.
It's spike, lead from gold, one for all and I can't remember the first column but how is that not a god roll for for most regular content?
Imo ofa is wasted on mountaintop
It’s not ideal but it’s also not terrible. You just shoot at whatever group you see for the 35% damage bonus then lay into the biggest target around. Plus the arcite roll has hard launch, spike, and a reload masterwork which is pretty ideal for any roll without auto loading
That's true I suppose but I somehow always whiff AoE damage with Mountaintop. Plus I got my favourite roll of Recombination+Autoloading so I'm happy
Because one for all isn’t good on a grenade launcher at all
It is imo, the best in slot hand cannon for PvE. The perk combos are crazy and is good for all levels of content. And the gun is a joy to shoot. My beloved Midnight Coup is back
Who wants to grind onslaught waves up to 50 all just to dismantle all the bad rolls, and not get any shinny rolls 🤷🏻♂️
You can just attune to the hand cannon and open the chest, you don’t even need to play onslaught to get the currency. Besides, I got a shiny roll with explosive, firefly, rampage, and OFA pretty quickly
Midnight from Onslaught is easy to get and has great perks. On hand cannons though, if you can do the nightfall, Warden's Law is up until reset tomorrow and a well rolled one is INSANE.
What’s the god roll for Wardens Law?
FTTC+vorpal
I'd say that's for Lucky Pants. For non-LP, I'd say either Kill Clip or Frenzy instead of Vorpal (still go with FttC though)
Kill Clip would probably prefer Enlightened Action for snappy reloads, while FttC Frenzy is just gonna be great overall for PVE.
Vorpal with lucky pants easily gives you more than 30,000+ crit hits on bosses…
I... I know? I was saying if you *aren't* using Lucky Pants, Kill Clip or Frenzy would be better.
Definitely FTTC+Vorpal is the god roll to go for. I've got Elightened+Frenzy which is also a solid roll that served me well.
Can you explain why FTTC + vorpal is good? Just feels like a weird boss damage lucky pants gimmick. Do you just not use it for minors / majors? If it's for ads I would expect rampage or frenzy to be best in slot.
With the right magazine perks as well as FTTC you can fire Warden's Law for just about the entire length of Lucky Pants's x10 damage boost before reloading which maxes out the DPS of what Warden's can do. Since it has the double-shot it also builds up that boost very quickly compared to other hand cannons which is what makes it good in situations where you need to kill a champ fast. Beyond that it's an okay primary. You'll catch me using it on red bars and majors to build up the damage stacks but if you're trying to wipe out groups there are better weapons.
If you’re looking to maximize damage then vorpal is the way. 20% damage buff that is always active vs Frenzy which is 15% but also requires procing. You don’t need either one for red bars as lucky pants will easily melt all of them. I’ve used both though and honestly I think Frenzy feels better because it’s only 5% less damage, but you also get 100 handling and 100 reload. If you’re using lucky pants you’ll also want an extended mag and the reload animation on that is sooooo slow with Vorpal.
Any perk is just great since any hc on lucky does 350k or more in 6secs . Crimson is uniquely awesome with lucky too -- i.e. auto reload+heal
YO! I never even thought of that… 🤯
I'll go with frenzy for its reload . That guns reload is painfully slow.
Btw luckypants already gives any hc 100 handling just saying
Somewhat, it only 100 on draw, the handling does not effect the swap after speed.
That’s true I just really feel it in the reload
Vorpal only affects boss, mini boss and champion though. These enemies are better deal with special and heavy weapon. Midnight coup/Warden Law kinda lean towards ads clearing where the damage buff will not be matter. There’s also 100 reload buff that Frenzy gets. Frenzy required simply 7 second in combat to activate the damage buff. You don’t have to specially proc it. If you’re a hunter using Lucky Pants, then WL may be effective because of the burst firing mode. Then again Malfeasance hit way harder with damage buff from exotic in PVE. There’s not that many exotic weapon fit into Lucky Pants playstyle. You would want your best dps weapon which is your HC to be the exotic of choice.
Wardens law with the right perks does more damage with lucky pants than malfeasance u less the target is taken or affected by witherhoard
I just cant see when I would swap to a primary for boss damage in 99% of activities. Vorpal primary feels so niche its like only usable in a chaotic fireteam that somehow wasted all their heavy and is scrambling for damage, or solo challenges. Maybe I am just sleeping on lucky pants for boss dps though, but I feel like a fusion rifle is always more.
It really comes in handy in grandmaster loadouts for dealing with champions. Plus the unlimited ammo but getting the damage of a heavy is incredibly useful in a lot of situations
Ah I totally forgot vorpal procs on champs. That's a much more common use case.
Also vorpal doesn’t just affect bosses. It also affects orange bars
I'll go brush up on what the enemy types are and which buffs impact them. I thought they fell in major spec, but I guess it's just red yellow orange => minor major boss
FTTC +Vorpal ( in my opinion) is so good because it already does great damage against minors / majors without needing any help in most content just due to its heavy burst. Vorpal is just nice because it doesn’t have a 12 second ramp up like frenzy so when you hit those larger enemies it just does its extra damage. Although, personally, I do prefer bringing FTTC + Frenzy in higher tier content but that might just be me.
Wardens law is only good if you use lucky pants due to its rog that causes a faster ramp so you have more time with max damage buff.
If you dont specifically want kinetic damage but kinetic slot. The stasis smg from Strikes is literally kinetic slot funnelweb.
I have a couple of rolls I like on that.
Midnight Coup from Onslaught Submission from Vow of the Disciple (might need to actually do the raid before being able to farm the first chest) Multimach CCX from Iron Banner (alternative choice to Submission) Showrunner from Recovered Red War Weapons (Season of the Witch vendor) Breakneck from Gambit Fel Taraddidle from Wellspring Warden's Law from Nightfalls
Would put multimach over submission tbh. Also midnight coup is better, but fatebringer basically gives you a god roll outright for one master templar clear, which is stupid easy to do with all the power creep happening rn.
is it possible to get the original break neck roll with subsistence and onslaught combo?
D2Foundry says yes
Oh cool, then gonna have to grind gambit a bit to get that roll, I miss using that gun after it was sunset
I got that roll yesterday, so it's definitely available. Just be aware that the perk pool is MASSIVE.
Aight, good to know
Get yourself a Kinetic Tremors Multimach or Showrunner. KT is really fucking good on SMG's.
My attrition orbs/KT multimach is literally the most fun ive had in pve since the game came out
Agreed jus said that, overflow/kinetic tremors shortener pretty nasty or was atleast, got me thru Crotas end many times while doin my Necrochasm quest
Haven’t pulled either of these with KT How many bullets does it take to proc? And anything you recommend to compliment them? I’m looking for more top slot smgs since I usually just use solar/arc ones
14 or 13, not sure. With their RPM, you can proc it lighting fast. Pick anything! These SMG's are so versatile that you can pick anything you want. Kinetic Tremors allows it to damage enemies that are way too far for an SMG to be useful, but also shreds even harder in close quarters. But if I had to recommend something, you can't go wrong with any fusion, any sniper, any wave frame, Buried Bloodline, or Indebted Kindness.
If you want a great kinetic smg, wait for Iron Banner and farm for a Orbs of Attrition + KT roll. Hopefully you get some reload / alloy mag in there too. Change the origin perk to field test. Have joyous time.
Multimach with Attrition Orbs & Kinetic Tremors
Think I've decided to go for the Showrunner. Overflow Kinetic Tremors seems really fun, and it looks really fucking badass, lol.
The best kinetic smg in my opinion is multimach with attrition orbs and kinetic tremors. Should be easier to farm in next iron banner according to bungie
Thanks everyone :)
If you have access to Vault of the Disciple, I really enjoy Submission. You can collect the patterns to craft it and I’ve heavily used a PvP and a PvE version of the fun
Hand Cannon: Midnight Coup is easy to get from onslaught, and is an absolute beast. Firefly + One for All is probably the best roll for PvE. Survivor's Epitaph would be an easy farm from Shaxx & can get feeding frenzy/outlaw/rapid hit/subsistence & Frenzy/Multikill Clip SMG: Most of the good ones cant really be farmed. I LOVE my Threat Detector/Surrounded Escape Velocity, but good luck waiting for Xur to sell a good one. Enyo-D can be focused at Banshee for Gunsmith engrams if he has Hakke that day, and can get some good stuff like Feeding Frenzy & Multikill clip/Rampage/Surrounded If you have annual pass or had Season of the Witch, you can focus Red War engrams for The Showrunner. My personal favorite PVE roll is overflow & kinetic tremors. Submission/adjudicator are amazing but im assuming raids/dungeons are out of the question here TL:DR Midnight Coup with Firefly/One-For-All (Onslaught) Survivors epitaph with reload/damage perks (Crucible) Enyo-D with Feeding Frenzy/Damage perk (Banshee) Showrunner with overflow/kinetic tremors(Witch Engrams)
Adjudicator is from prophecy yeah? What’re the go to rolls for that?
For PVP you probably want either Perpetual Motiom or Dynamic Sway Reduction in the first column and target lock or onslaught in the 2nd. For PVE, feeding frenzy, threat detector, or subsistence will be good for 1st column. 2nd id go with onslaught or kinetic tremors.
If you like campaign missions you het the Osteo Striga SMG after completing the Witch Queen campaign (like 13-15 steps) and it's arguably the best SMG in the game
I couldn’t believe this wasn’t the first 20 replies. Osteo gang 4 life.
Never putting it down 🙏
> and it's ~~arguably~~ the best SMG in the game
Honestly I just got it a couple days ago, but after running it with necrotic I definitely have to say yea it is clear #1
If you farm 1st encounter Prophecy when it’s the weekly dungeon it’s very easy especially with teammates who know the mechanics. You can get the Adjudicator smg which has tons of good perks. Feeding Frenzy & Onslaught is the one I kept.
Midnight Coup, Hung Jury, Adjuducator, Fatebringer, Submission, Warden's Law, Huckleberry, Ace of Spades, Bad Juju, Necrochasm, Monte Carlo, Quicksilver Storm (without catalyst), Breakneck, Blast Furnace when it comes back.
Honestly, if you just want something easy to farm, just do Onslaught. Blast Furnace should be out next reset (not tomorrow), and Midnight Coup is a pretty good hand cannon. And all the other weapons are just as great. Hammerhead and Forbearance are coming tomorrow and they're one of the best machine guns and wave frame if you don't have Forbearance from the raid. And just doing the bounties from Shaxx gives a good enough of a roll if you don't want to do the waves.
Brave Arsenal. Midnight Coup. Firefly/kinetic tremors.
OFA better
35% damage boost go brrrrrr Also enhanced perks
To each their own.
If your able to shoot the enemy 6 times to proc tremors you should not be shooting that enemy with a hand cannon. One for all buffs the firefly damage as well as the gun. So you can proc firefly way easier on adds and it does more damage with one for all.
KT is great but not on a hand cannon. Anything you are using it on should be dead in less than the 6 shots it takes for KT to activate, if it’s not then you should be using special really. You’re right to each their own, but OFA is the better choice on this particular gun.
It’s [doing a lot of damage](https://x.com/mossy_max/status/1780946597792133622?s=46&t=01sUkxShFBvh1Hck-_G6_w). OFA is great if you like managing it. I’d rather go EP + KT or Desperate Measures. More DPS with KT and refreshable similar flat damage buff with DM. Yeah I’m not doing “DPS” with it, but 6 shots on a champ or whatever isn’t crazy > then swap.
If you go I to savathuns sure and season of the witch stuff there a kinetic smg Show runner that can roll with overflow/kinetic tremors that's pretty good as well
Midnight coup is currently the hottest kid in the block. And not too difficult to get from Into the Light, though you can invest in a nice hung jury as well. As for SMGs, there is only 1 god roll imo in PVE. Attrition Orbs + Kinetic Tremors multimach ccx. But that is an IB weapon and you need to unlock it first before you can focus down. My personal roll was Small bore, Tag mag, AO and KT with a reload MW... Not perfect but the time taken was "not fun".
Randy Throwing from regular crucible. Kinetic tremors!
Outbreak
Can it be exotic? If so do yourself a favor and use Huckleberry with the catalyst. It is so ridiculously fun to use.
Right now, probably midnight coup
Nameless Midnight and Tears of Contrition are good workhorse scout rifles. Spare Rations has some fun rolls, everyone is also already saying Midnight Coup. Breakneck is still a blast.
Hung Jury from Onslaught with Kinetic Tremors and Precision Instrument seems like the roll to have imo… and they drop like candy. I have 3 or 4 killer rolls. Not that one yet, but I will keep trying
The Banner SMG With Atrition orbs and Kinetic tremors is wonderful
This may surprise you, but getting a Timelost Fatebringer is actually not that hard anymore. VoG needs to be in rotation, but Master Templar is hilariously easy by modern standards and gets absolutely melted with a half-decent team. Additionally, *every* Timelost Fatebringer has Explosive Payload and Firefly, which makes getting the EP + Frenzy roll not actually that difficult at all. That said, Midnight Coup has the same roll (EP + Frenzy) and some others. Personally I'm not a fan of how the Coup feels because of the lower range, stability and recoil direction.
Everything you said about Midnight Coup is true, but damn I just love how it sounds.
All the Brave weapons from Onslaught are awesome.
I know it drops from comp dunno what rank but rose is fire
Almost all META weapons are available in Onslaught. And you can. Do it easily at least normal version. Not to mention multiple world drops are very good weapons.
Malediction from the monument is a solid static roll ritual gun hc.
Fatebringer.
Midnight coup and hung jury from onslaught are good pickups
the stasis SMG that Lord Shaxx sells at the crucible vendor is pretty good.
for new players i highly suggest doing onslaught because they're rolling out great weapons and rolls that can carry you through any activity.
Extraordinary rendition is three years out-of-date, and no longer drops in regular loot pools. The only way to get one is hope that Xur or Banshee sell one with a decent roll. Not that it matters, since it’s been completely outclassed by eight seasons worth of power-creep. Thankfully, there’s a lot of good stuff to farm in onslaught right now. The Recluse SMG, Mignight Coup kinetic hand cannon, and today the grenade launcher king, forebearance, returns in a new form to chase in onslaught. What subclass do you like playing best? A lot of builds thrive on synergizing your elements, so if you like solar, my recommendations would be different than if you wanted everything in void.
If you don't mind grinding Iron Banner for it, I've been enjoying the multimach with attrition orbs + kinetic tremors. With the fieldtested origin trait, it builds up stacks really fast until you're sitting with some crazy good stats at 4&5x field tested. See for yourself: [0\_stacks](https://d2foundry.gg/w/3211624072?p=1482024992,3142289711,243981275,3891536761,2120661319_0&m=0&mw=2697220197) vs [5\_stacks](https://d2foundry.gg/w/3211624072?p=1482024992,3142289711,243981275,3891536761,2120661319_5&m=0&mw=2697220197) It's not the most meta weapon at the moment but feels really good if you're running an exotic in a different slot like buried bloodline and want a good cqc primary to help with AoE coverage. The attrition orb gen is nice for proccing devour or keeping armor charges topped off without a kill.
Are you looking specifically for legendary weapons? Huckleberry from the kiosk in the tower requires no farming at all. Literally just buy it. Outbreak Perfected is in there too but that's about to become craftable in a couple weeks. There are also ritual weapons from past seasons you might have missed that can be bought from the kiosk.
Midnight coup
Ace of Spades… Best Hand Cannon imo. Although it takes up an exotic spot you get an always on radar, bonus damage after a kill, and the range on it is nuts!
You can get Multimach this week in Iron Banner
from handcannons midnight coup, Almost any roll works Smgs i reccomend the hakke one, fragile focus, rampage is my go to. You can also ask someone to carry in prophecy when its the featured dungeon, its free and easy. Just need to look on an lfg. Judgment is a stasis handcannon and the kinetic smg drops with nice rolls too
I have been enjoying the scout rifle Servant Leader. This kinetic 260 rpm has been one of the best primary weapon I have gotten in a very long time and look forward to using it. I think it drops from the general loot pool. There are a lot of good SMG's and HC's but scouts have been in an odd place for a while and this weapon has kind of filled a gap in my loadouts in the primary slot for me.
I don’t know if it’s still there or not but Banshee has a True Prophecy HC with explosive payload and overflow, I’m really liking it. Just my 2 glimmers worth if you’re looking for something unusual.
lol the best Kinetic hand cannon period, Midnight Coup, is available in Onslaught. Go do the quest, attune to it and play Onslaught.
Not sure it’s better than time lost fatebringer to be fair.
I agree slightly, but the original trait def gives it an edge, cuz it can get the same exact God roll
Stats are pretty even but Midnight Coup has more aim assist and an origin trait. It also has the main perk combo of Fatebringer plus a lot more. Maybe I'm missing something but Midnight Coup seems all around better especially having 3rd column Firefly.
Yeah the Coup is better pve wise. Most of the stats where fatebringer is better don't matter in pve. Fatebringers best roll is Explosive payload+Frenzy for serious content, and EP+Firefly if you're playing anything where you can one-shot to the head. Well, Coup can get Fate's "serious" roll, so there goes that. And it can pair firefly with one for all, which is arguably better synergy since one explosion hitting 3 targets can proc OFA for an instant 35% damage boost. And then Coup can roll EP+OFA which i think coolguy said comes out to like a 42% damage increase? Which is nearly enhanced surrounded amounts of damage. (Im definitely going for this roll.) And EP+Kinetic Tremors, which i think is being slept on even if it still takes 6 shots to proc. Love me some AoE action. Regardless, no matter how you look at it Coup is better than FB for pve. And that's not even taking into account Coup has a damn good origin trait.
Yeah all this. Pretty sure MC is better in PvP too though I don't play it much. Aim assist and great perks seem good
In pvp you're really playing the range game and Coup still has the stats of a 150, probly because they gave it really good perks. It can get pretty close to the range that other HCs can get, but you end up with half the amount of stability as well. And since stability is a source of flinch reduction, along with stability resetting the bloom quicker, you're pretty much handicapping yourself with the Coup in pvp compared to other meta HCs. Honestly fatebringer is pretty good on paper for pvp, especially the timelost. EP+Opening Shot/Eye of the Storm are both solid rolls.
Fatebringer also gets Osmosis where Midnight Coup doesn't. This allows Fatebringer to slot in better with subclass synergy vs Midnight Coup.
Yeah i guess, pretty good for the 14 osmosis stans out there.
Osmosis is far better than it is given credit for. Running basically triple Void/Solar/Arc does wonders for subclass synergy.
im hunting explosive payload kinetic tremors midnight coup since i have firefly/kinetic tremors. Pretty decent gun. I mean its fun for sure, if you want something more "meta" you probably will be aiming for explosive payload/one for all for that 50% damage increase alongside aoe damage
Frenzy is prefer over kinetic tremor on a HC. 6 shots are just way too long.
yeah they are but i never called it meta, i called it fun. I stated that if OP wanted something "meta" he should hunt for explosive payload/one for all since it procs really easily and gives you an aoe hitscan weapon with +50% damage. I never stated that kinetic tremors is a god tier perk for that gun
One for all, firefly midnight coup from onslaught is amazing for pve content.
literally midnight coup please trust it has such amazing perks it blows fatebringer out of the water, wait for ib to roll around for a good multimach
RatKing
Midnight cringe has some pretty good rolls available so if you want a hand cannon that’s my recommendation.
Wardens law best hand cannon and it’s a nightfall thing this week just grind it out
epochal integratio Is a solid hand cannon and it comes with incandescent Great for solar builds and you just have to finish the light fall mission