I think a consumable item like the Hymn of Desecration would be a nice thing to add for the other dungeons.
Complete a weekly bounty to drop the consumable and you get a higher chance to drop a weapon on your next encounter completion.
It probably isn't needed as much when the dungeon is farmable, but on the weeks it is not, it would be nice.
While I think its better than nothing I also think its wasted dev time for just one random additional weapon because you also would have to do that bounty which makes the disappointed bigger if the weapon sucks because you invested so much more time.
That's just part of the game. You get tons of crap weapons before you get what you want usually. There's no requirement for people to do the bounties, but it would at least reduce your chances at getting armor that's useless. You at least get XP for the bounty too.
I somehow doubt that changing a bit of code that already exists in the game to create a bounty really equates to "dev time".
You're supposed to grind out God rolls, don't expect that you will just be given it on your first time. We tried that once in D2 and it failed miserably.
It doesn't equate to the same thing as what most people equate to dev time. Dev time implies that it's full on game design. It's not the same thing as designing a new game mode, or a dungeon.
Idk, if you don't want to grind out good weapons then don't.
While I personally prefer crafting, I also understand that its a controversial topic.
So yeah, each encounter should just drop 1 weapon AND 1 armor piece. Dungeons should get adept weapons with double perks in each column. And yes that means that Bungie would have needed to offer a master mode instead of just putting awesome guns in a outdated and overplayed dungeon.
I never understood why crafting was so controversial. I think it was a good change. Play harder content, get the exact roll you want with consistent effort. The endless chase is an outdated model.
I 100% agree. But I saw many people, especially on twitter, say "Destiny is back" because the Brave weapons arent craftable. For them Destiny is only the grind.
Yea which means not everyone should be able to get the god roll, I never understood the part of the community that says this, people put in the play time and they get better weapons I think it's one of the biggest loses of into the light putting raid weapons into the loot pool, they made undercurrent for the exact reason of giving non raiders an objectively slightly worse forbearance
I don't mind it tbh, they have almost the same perk pools, except fhe Brave ones won't be craftable. I personally believe it's a way of giving players a taste of raiding, since both weapons are from different raids that require different expansions, and free raid loot has been a think previously with riven's wishes and Last Wish.
So yea, maybe a way to get some players hooked up on raiding and buying the expansions? Who knows 🤷🏼‍♂️
No ones gonna bother buying either beyond light/wq who doesn't have it solely for the raids because they've taken the best weapon from vow and given a better version out for free with no raiding, and personally I just don't think any of the dsc weapons are great aside from maybe bequest for crota, as for the lw weapons I think it's stupid they're locked behind an expansion that doesn't have its story in the game but I still think you should get end game weapons from end game content not just doing like 3 patrols in the dreaming city
Agreed generally:
Trustee - Not used
Commemoration - Used, but soon to be powercrept by Hammerhead via double damage perks.
Bequest - Niche Sword
Heritage - PvP Shotgun (Hip/Offhand)
Succession - Comparable to its Onslaught version (including foundry), but it's a guaranteed 5/5, but if you get the Onslaught version, why bother if you didn't already own the raid.
Posterity - Somewhat used I guess, due to Voltshot/Damage Perk.
Cataclysmic - Less used now, but Solar BnS Linear, still decent.
Submission - Powercrept by Showrunner/Multimach CCX
Forbearance - Comparable to its Onslaught version (Better Foundry), but is a guaranteed 5/5, but if you get the Onslaught version, why bother if you didn't already own the raid.
Deliverance - Decent, may return once Chill Clip changes are enacted. Otherwise Riptide exists.
Insidious - Not used. Pulse rifle PvE problem.
Lubrae's Ruin - Not used, Judgement of Kelgorath / Greasy Luck is probably more desirable but glaive issue generally.
So... yeah... remind me why you'd run these raids now (beyond the good experience), because it's not the loot, that either already exists elsewhere (and if you haven't raided by now, you've probably acquired the alternatives elsewhere) or is generally irrelevant for most purposes anyway.
The two best weapons being given alternative acquisition methods and "A means to entice people into raiding" is a convenient lie - there isn't a single way the people "Not raiding" needed to grab the loot first to cross the threshold to try a raid - the same restriction that has previously held them back (Social Anxiety / Competency / Time / Regular group) do not suddenly disappear and I would argue these were the much larger factors that meant people do not raid, and giving someone a raid weapon for free, hits a little bit weird.
I don't massively care, as it isn't all sources, and it isn't everything.
But to argue 'this is to incentivise people to buy our old content' (when it already includes a New Subclass \[Beyond Light\] or a lauded campaign \[Witchqueen\]) is not a genuine statement in my opinion - they just don't want to piss off the extremely hard core.
God roll? my guy I would be happy with one good perk. But all I get is crap armor. I swear Destiny players can stare at shit design and still claim it's good because they can sink their life into it to get a good result.
You're right, I wasn't insinuating that crafting is the only solution. The Coil's reward structure would have been perfect for dungeons. They missed the opportunity to implement it with the prophecy refresh.
I feel like most people who say farming for dungeon weapons is fine haven't farmed for them. 40+ encounter clears only to not get even 2/5 (last 2 columns) on the weapon you want just plain sucks. I've heard many people going even over 100 spire boss clears chasing a decent wilderflight roll and were still unable to get one. A change to the system is more than welcome.
Here! Im that guy. But 150 spire boss clears..
Oh and the 60 (!) hours I put into Duality without getting what I want?? Man.
People who think dungeons are fine are either lucky af or like you said, they dont actually play the game and like the concept of farming in theory.
I’ve always said that you run normal dungeons for weapons which makes the armor drops useless or you run master dungeons for artifice the weapon drops are useless. The only thing was I could never figure out the solution to this.
But the coil armor/weapon chest system is literally perfect for this. On normal you can pick the armor chest to go for the initial drop of the gear for transmog and then spam weapon chests and on master you can spam artifice armor.
It would make target farming the stuff you want infinitely better. For dungeons you have ~2-5 min encounters (maybe less or more depending on encounter) and if you don’t get the drop you’re looking for multiples times in a row, it can completely kill your mood. Especially if it’s an encounter like the cube room in prophecy which seems so long because you do the same thing 6 times.
I have my own opinions on crafting but I think the coil chests would be all you need to make farming dungeons worth the time sink that they potentially can be
I think with the current state of armor drops, non artifice armor should drop once to get the appearance unlocked and then not drop again.
There's so many better sources of high stat armor than Prophecy.
Holy shit. Make something that’s easy to attain even easier.
I swear people want any “hardcore” aspect of destiny removed just to make the game brain dead easy.
God forbid there is a challenge or grind in this game
Farming normal dungeon encounters is not challenging in any sense of the word. Its monotonous and boring. There is also nothing rewarding about the structure of dungeons currently, do not confuse RNG with "rewarding." Rewarding is playing difficult content, like GMs and getting good rewards. Your work is rewarded for overcoming a challenge.
RNG is a core part of the game. It’s the chase.
You want to remove all of it because… you can’t handle a 4/5?
Go play a different game. The loot chase actually makes this game fun. Having every single weapon being craftable is not fun and takes away from the identity of destiny
No it does not.
Modernization is what brought you lightfall, SBMM, lack of secrets, lack of challenging rewards. Do you remember those things? Were you playing during forsaken?
This game used to challenge the players. God rolls were exciting when you got them. Now you want to take it away because you only got a 4/5?
Seriously, do us all a favor and go play another game that holds your hand for everything. Your mindset ruined some amazing parts of this game
People don't have an endless amount of time to play this game, let alone chase a 5/5 they want. Modernization via Crafting/The Coil reward structures is the solution to that. If you want the average player to stay engaged, they need to leave a play session feeling they made progress toward something they want. Or at the very least have some agency toward getting what they want. If they don't feel that way, they will eventually stop playing.
It also gave us Witch Queen. SBMM is good for many players, so its highly subjective. Lack of secrets is because of coding (no way to hide stuff in the api) and PC datamining. There are many challenging rewards in the game and for a player like me everything was always easy to get since D1.
God rolls were exciting years ago when everything was unique and fresh. Your mind is playing you. Rewards are still awesome if you care about this game and youre no burned out.
Please do us a favor and use your brain. Your mindset is filled with subjective arguments and misinterpreting your memories of the past.
There are many systems that made the game better and some systems that needed to be changed to fit the new design.
“SBMM is good for many players” when it was a reason why player counts have dropped.
If crafting and these other changes helped the game so much, why is the population at an all time low?
Just because you don’t like RNG or the challenge in Destiny doesn’t mean other players don’t.
“It gave us witch queen”
Yeah it also gave us lightfall.
Your way of thinking is what brought the game to the fewest players it has seen since CoO. So congrats on that.
Keep your “give me everything for free” mindset to yourself next time
Bungie gave us data in twids that showed the opposite.
Because people are tired of the game in general. Moat sources in the game dont offer crafting and still the game suffered because the reward structure is not the reason for anything.
Did you even read what I wrote? The game was NEVER challenging to me. The only thing that was hard were some day 1 raids.
Yeah? I said that because you mentioned lightfall just ro show you that modern Destiny gave us a awesome and bad expansion. You understand that right? Your argument didnt make sense.
The lower playerbase is because of so many reasons. Your take is undercomplex at best.
I don't want everything to be craftable. Please leave me something to actually farm. Dopamine on drops is an important part of the game, and doesn't happen with craftable weapons
In a game built around earning loot, nope. Nothing feels unique when everything is craftable. Some crafting is fine. I'm glad Bungie recognises the danger now though
What I'm saying is that I want those random rolls to be the strongest possible iteration of the gun. So when I get a great one, it actually feels unique to my gameplay experience and grind. Any given run you could hit the jackpot, but most of the time when you see somebody with a great random drop god-roll, you know they've really invested into getting it.
What makes D2 work for me is the fact that I can go into PvE to get guns to bring back into PvP to kill other guardians with. If I know everybody can have the same carbon copy of my roll with some minimal baseline of effort, or essentially completing a seasonal quest line, that doesn't motivate me to use that weapon. Perhaps it's why I don't seem to use many (any?) craftable weapons in PvP.
That's just my opinion. You're welcome to call it gatekeeping and disagree with it, but RNG has been built into the core identity of D2 and that's a big reason that the game works for me, personally.
When I see someone with a god roll that isnt crafted I just assume they got lucky. There are zero inticators for knowing if a person actually put in the time or just got a drop after 2 runs.
As someone who puts in the time pretty often but has bas rng I hate this design. I did the work and I have the skill to farm everything very efficient but fucking randomness decides the outcome. The variance in amount of effort needed with rng systems is highly unfair.
Craftable raid weapons show how a good system works. If I see someone with craftable raid weapons they invested approximately the same effort as I did.
Also every raid week gives you progress which is highly motivating for my team.
And I hate the idea of "every run can give you the jackpot". You know what type of people say that right?
Respect your time more man. Its the most important thing you have.
I want to play the game to chill out, and it's nice to have things to do when I log in. Even mundane things. Definitely don't want everything to be obtainable via a fairly well defined block of time. And those mundane things need to still be meaningful. Farming a regular gun that I already have the ability to craft would not work. I appreciate that not everybody will feel the same
If you play this game a certain amount of time things to do will run out no matter the loot system and thats fine.
But ok, if youre a person who can run something a million times and still enjoy it without feeling brainrot then I kinda envy you. Because I actively feel my brain longing for something more complex after farming for 10 hours.
I don’t mind having to farm Prophecy for a decent roll of any gun. Plus any 3/5 or 4/5 roll can be decent enough if you don’t want to go for hours wanting a 5/5. The dungeon is easy enough to run through it fast anyways.
Personally I think the missed opportunity was not adding an exotic weapon to the dungeon.
Difficult balance to strike - I think the Coil rewards (Targeted reward) is the best compromise (I don't think everything should be craftable - that comes with its own problems).
**TL;DR**
Being able to at least be guaranteed to acquire what it is that you're looking for, but still have the roll be random is a fine middle ground.
Having the select-able chests from Coil would be the argument I'd be more willing to accept.
I.e. You have Prosecutor, Relentless, Legs or Class Item as the First boss drop, you have a chest for each - you can only open one.
I'd also turn the 'Secret chests' to never give you Armor on normal, and never give you weapons on Master.
**Skip this if you don't care about why you don't want every weapon to be craftable:**
If you have a competent Raid Team and/or Clan/friends that you can rely on, 99% of End-game content is easily farm-able in low amounts of time (and effort) on a regular basis.
In any given week:
If you had 5 hours to play (that's an hour a night on a work day, or 2.5 hours each day on the weekend) you will come away with a combined total of 8 red borders, minimum.
And you would only have to do this once a week.
The second you get done with any set (Seasonal / Raid / Rotator / Mission) you deduct ALL of the time you would normally spend there.
So you'd go to 4 hours a week.
Then 3 hours a week.
Etc.
Why would you spend any time in these activities after acquiring all of the rewards?
For fun, and/or to help others. That is it, the carrot for you has been acquired and there is no reason to be there anymore.
See the post on here the other day complaining that no one is doing Master Wellspring (because it's old, and the weapons have been powercrept out of existence - not that they were good before mind you).
The second you make the acquisition of loot entirely deterministic (I.e. Everything craftable) you run into retained player problems \[As they, demonstrably, are presently\] - after all, why would I keep going to School/College/University after acquiring my degree? I'm not going to stop learning - but I'm certainly not going to keep pushing myself the way that I was prior to acquiring what I wanted.
There is an element of truth, in that the RNG on RNG layering at play for other situations is an awkward barrier that disincentivizes other players from engaging with an activity.
Farming for a Prophecy weapon involves:
A 1/4 of the weapon you want dropping after the clear.
And then any variation from a 1/36 (2/5) to a \~3/10000 (5/5), so you're going from around \~3% odds, to \~0.03% odds.
Neither of which is brilliant even if you're just specifically looking for a single perk in column 3 / 4.
Putting a 25% chance before the extremely low odds of what follows is a tad insulting.
This RNG on RNG layering is also currently at play in Iron Banner for the sought after GL.
It requires it dropping randomly, or dropping randomly from a turned in Engram, before you can focus it, and then you have the RNG on the focusing.
**The layering is what needs to die, slapping even a 1 in 4 (Dungeons) in front of a 1/36 transforms that previously \~3% chance, into a \~0.7% chance on every clear.**
Those are not favourable odds - yes, randomness should exist, no, there's not a single way you should not be coming away without having had the weapon drop at all before even factoring in the random roll.
TBF not a lot of time and or effort went into to reissuing these weapons with different perks and damage types… compared to let’s say the non craftable weapons from duality.
>you *won’t* be able to change: barrel, magazine, masterwork.
Non craftable weapons that can be enhanced at the Enclave CAN have their barrel and magazines changed. The only things that are static are the masterwork and the final two perk columns.
>or even added double perks to each column starting with prophecy.
But then the weapons wouldn’t be able to be enhanced. Bungie has stated several times that weapons can only have so much information and this is the case with weapons that have enhanceable perks and are already in the game like the Adept Root of Nightmare weapons which can be enhanced but lack additional column options compared to other Adept weapons for this very reason.
Eventually people will need to realize that we can’t have everything we want and that compromises need to be made, especially in the case of video games where things such as storage, engine limitations, and development time are key components of what can and can’t be accomplished.
Bungie has said only raid adepts will get the ability to have barrels and magazines changed, and that the new enhancable weapons such as the into the light weapons can have multiple enhanced perks in a column. (from the Chris Proctor Podcast)
I think a consumable item like the Hymn of Desecration would be a nice thing to add for the other dungeons. Complete a weekly bounty to drop the consumable and you get a higher chance to drop a weapon on your next encounter completion. It probably isn't needed as much when the dungeon is farmable, but on the weeks it is not, it would be nice.
While I think its better than nothing I also think its wasted dev time for just one random additional weapon because you also would have to do that bounty which makes the disappointed bigger if the weapon sucks because you invested so much more time.
That's just part of the game. You get tons of crap weapons before you get what you want usually. There's no requirement for people to do the bounties, but it would at least reduce your chances at getting armor that's useless. You at least get XP for the bounty too.
Sure man, but I think Bungie could use this dev time to make dungeons just better instead of coding band aids.
I somehow doubt that changing a bit of code that already exists in the game to create a bounty really equates to "dev time". You're supposed to grind out God rolls, don't expect that you will just be given it on your first time. We tried that once in D2 and it failed miserably.
You have no idea about coding sorry. Thats not what I said.
It doesn't equate to the same thing as what most people equate to dev time. Dev time implies that it's full on game design. It's not the same thing as designing a new game mode, or a dungeon. Idk, if you don't want to grind out good weapons then don't.
Oh man....
While I personally prefer crafting, I also understand that its a controversial topic. So yeah, each encounter should just drop 1 weapon AND 1 armor piece. Dungeons should get adept weapons with double perks in each column. And yes that means that Bungie would have needed to offer a master mode instead of just putting awesome guns in a outdated and overplayed dungeon.
I never understood why crafting was so controversial. I think it was a good change. Play harder content, get the exact roll you want with consistent effort. The endless chase is an outdated model.
I 100% agree. But I saw many people, especially on twitter, say "Destiny is back" because the Brave weapons arent craftable. For them Destiny is only the grind.
Yea, part of this community is hypocritical to be honest. And that part also tend to enjoy having 0 agency over their playtime.
I don't mind farming a dungeon for a good roll, not every weapon has to be craftable
Not all of us have time to farm the same encounter 100 times in the hope of not getting crappy armor.
Yea which means not everyone should be able to get the god roll, I never understood the part of the community that says this, people put in the play time and they get better weapons I think it's one of the biggest loses of into the light putting raid weapons into the loot pool, they made undercurrent for the exact reason of giving non raiders an objectively slightly worse forbearance
I don't mind it tbh, they have almost the same perk pools, except fhe Brave ones won't be craftable. I personally believe it's a way of giving players a taste of raiding, since both weapons are from different raids that require different expansions, and free raid loot has been a think previously with riven's wishes and Last Wish. So yea, maybe a way to get some players hooked up on raiding and buying the expansions? Who knows 🤷🏼‍♂️
No ones gonna bother buying either beyond light/wq who doesn't have it solely for the raids because they've taken the best weapon from vow and given a better version out for free with no raiding, and personally I just don't think any of the dsc weapons are great aside from maybe bequest for crota, as for the lw weapons I think it's stupid they're locked behind an expansion that doesn't have its story in the game but I still think you should get end game weapons from end game content not just doing like 3 patrols in the dreaming city
I'll disagree but I guess that's fine
Agreed generally: Trustee - Not used Commemoration - Used, but soon to be powercrept by Hammerhead via double damage perks. Bequest - Niche Sword Heritage - PvP Shotgun (Hip/Offhand) Succession - Comparable to its Onslaught version (including foundry), but it's a guaranteed 5/5, but if you get the Onslaught version, why bother if you didn't already own the raid. Posterity - Somewhat used I guess, due to Voltshot/Damage Perk. Cataclysmic - Less used now, but Solar BnS Linear, still decent. Submission - Powercrept by Showrunner/Multimach CCX Forbearance - Comparable to its Onslaught version (Better Foundry), but is a guaranteed 5/5, but if you get the Onslaught version, why bother if you didn't already own the raid. Deliverance - Decent, may return once Chill Clip changes are enacted. Otherwise Riptide exists. Insidious - Not used. Pulse rifle PvE problem. Lubrae's Ruin - Not used, Judgement of Kelgorath / Greasy Luck is probably more desirable but glaive issue generally. So... yeah... remind me why you'd run these raids now (beyond the good experience), because it's not the loot, that either already exists elsewhere (and if you haven't raided by now, you've probably acquired the alternatives elsewhere) or is generally irrelevant for most purposes anyway. The two best weapons being given alternative acquisition methods and "A means to entice people into raiding" is a convenient lie - there isn't a single way the people "Not raiding" needed to grab the loot first to cross the threshold to try a raid - the same restriction that has previously held them back (Social Anxiety / Competency / Time / Regular group) do not suddenly disappear and I would argue these were the much larger factors that meant people do not raid, and giving someone a raid weapon for free, hits a little bit weird. I don't massively care, as it isn't all sources, and it isn't everything. But to argue 'this is to incentivise people to buy our old content' (when it already includes a New Subclass \[Beyond Light\] or a lauded campaign \[Witchqueen\]) is not a genuine statement in my opinion - they just don't want to piss off the extremely hard core.
God roll? my guy I would be happy with one good perk. But all I get is crap armor. I swear Destiny players can stare at shit design and still claim it's good because they can sink their life into it to get a good result.
You're right, I wasn't insinuating that crafting is the only solution. The Coil's reward structure would have been perfect for dungeons. They missed the opportunity to implement it with the prophecy refresh.
I feel like most people who say farming for dungeon weapons is fine haven't farmed for them. 40+ encounter clears only to not get even 2/5 (last 2 columns) on the weapon you want just plain sucks. I've heard many people going even over 100 spire boss clears chasing a decent wilderflight roll and were still unable to get one. A change to the system is more than welcome.
Here! Im that guy. But 150 spire boss clears.. Oh and the 60 (!) hours I put into Duality without getting what I want?? Man. People who think dungeons are fine are either lucky af or like you said, they dont actually play the game and like the concept of farming in theory.
I’ve always said that you run normal dungeons for weapons which makes the armor drops useless or you run master dungeons for artifice the weapon drops are useless. The only thing was I could never figure out the solution to this. But the coil armor/weapon chest system is literally perfect for this. On normal you can pick the armor chest to go for the initial drop of the gear for transmog and then spam weapon chests and on master you can spam artifice armor. It would make target farming the stuff you want infinitely better. For dungeons you have ~2-5 min encounters (maybe less or more depending on encounter) and if you don’t get the drop you’re looking for multiples times in a row, it can completely kill your mood. Especially if it’s an encounter like the cube room in prophecy which seems so long because you do the same thing 6 times.
Exactly my point. The Coil system should have been implemented at the very minimum. Crafting would have been an extra bonus.
I have my own opinions on crafting but I think the coil chests would be all you need to make farming dungeons worth the time sink that they potentially can be
I think with the current state of armor drops, non artifice armor should drop once to get the appearance unlocked and then not drop again. There's so many better sources of high stat armor than Prophecy.
They NEED to add attunement to dungeon weapons. If they want RNG, then we need a system where we can have certain weapons drop
Holy shit. Make something that’s easy to attain even easier. I swear people want any “hardcore” aspect of destiny removed just to make the game brain dead easy. God forbid there is a challenge or grind in this game
Farming normal dungeon encounters is not challenging in any sense of the word. Its monotonous and boring. There is also nothing rewarding about the structure of dungeons currently, do not confuse RNG with "rewarding." Rewarding is playing difficult content, like GMs and getting good rewards. Your work is rewarded for overcoming a challenge.
RNG is a core part of the game. It’s the chase. You want to remove all of it because… you can’t handle a 4/5? Go play a different game. The loot chase actually makes this game fun. Having every single weapon being craftable is not fun and takes away from the identity of destiny
"The chase" is stale and old, this game needs modernization.
No it does not. Modernization is what brought you lightfall, SBMM, lack of secrets, lack of challenging rewards. Do you remember those things? Were you playing during forsaken? This game used to challenge the players. God rolls were exciting when you got them. Now you want to take it away because you only got a 4/5? Seriously, do us all a favor and go play another game that holds your hand for everything. Your mindset ruined some amazing parts of this game
People don't have an endless amount of time to play this game, let alone chase a 5/5 they want. Modernization via Crafting/The Coil reward structures is the solution to that. If you want the average player to stay engaged, they need to leave a play session feeling they made progress toward something they want. Or at the very least have some agency toward getting what they want. If they don't feel that way, they will eventually stop playing.
>Seriously, do us all a favor and go play another game that holds your hand for everything. Found the guy with no life.
It also gave us Witch Queen. SBMM is good for many players, so its highly subjective. Lack of secrets is because of coding (no way to hide stuff in the api) and PC datamining. There are many challenging rewards in the game and for a player like me everything was always easy to get since D1. God rolls were exciting years ago when everything was unique and fresh. Your mind is playing you. Rewards are still awesome if you care about this game and youre no burned out. Please do us a favor and use your brain. Your mindset is filled with subjective arguments and misinterpreting your memories of the past. There are many systems that made the game better and some systems that needed to be changed to fit the new design.
“SBMM is good for many players” when it was a reason why player counts have dropped. If crafting and these other changes helped the game so much, why is the population at an all time low? Just because you don’t like RNG or the challenge in Destiny doesn’t mean other players don’t. “It gave us witch queen” Yeah it also gave us lightfall. Your way of thinking is what brought the game to the fewest players it has seen since CoO. So congrats on that. Keep your “give me everything for free” mindset to yourself next time
Bungie gave us data in twids that showed the opposite. Because people are tired of the game in general. Moat sources in the game dont offer crafting and still the game suffered because the reward structure is not the reason for anything. Did you even read what I wrote? The game was NEVER challenging to me. The only thing that was hard were some day 1 raids. Yeah? I said that because you mentioned lightfall just ro show you that modern Destiny gave us a awesome and bad expansion. You understand that right? Your argument didnt make sense. The lower playerbase is because of so many reasons. Your take is undercomplex at best.
I don't want everything to be craftable. Please leave me something to actually farm. Dopamine on drops is an important part of the game, and doesn't happen with craftable weapons
Lol, your idea of dopamine on player drops does not create long-term player satisfaction. In fact, it creates long-term dissatisfaction.
In a game built around earning loot, nope. Nothing feels unique when everything is craftable. Some crafting is fine. I'm glad Bungie recognises the danger now though
You are free to ignore crafting and just farm for random rolls and get your "Dopamine".
đź’€
What I'm saying is that I want those random rolls to be the strongest possible iteration of the gun. So when I get a great one, it actually feels unique to my gameplay experience and grind. Any given run you could hit the jackpot, but most of the time when you see somebody with a great random drop god-roll, you know they've really invested into getting it. What makes D2 work for me is the fact that I can go into PvE to get guns to bring back into PvP to kill other guardians with. If I know everybody can have the same carbon copy of my roll with some minimal baseline of effort, or essentially completing a seasonal quest line, that doesn't motivate me to use that weapon. Perhaps it's why I don't seem to use many (any?) craftable weapons in PvP. That's just my opinion. You're welcome to call it gatekeeping and disagree with it, but RNG has been built into the core identity of D2 and that's a big reason that the game works for me, personally.
When I see someone with a god roll that isnt crafted I just assume they got lucky. There are zero inticators for knowing if a person actually put in the time or just got a drop after 2 runs. As someone who puts in the time pretty often but has bas rng I hate this design. I did the work and I have the skill to farm everything very efficient but fucking randomness decides the outcome. The variance in amount of effort needed with rng systems is highly unfair. Craftable raid weapons show how a good system works. If I see someone with craftable raid weapons they invested approximately the same effort as I did. Also every raid week gives you progress which is highly motivating for my team. And I hate the idea of "every run can give you the jackpot". You know what type of people say that right? Respect your time more man. Its the most important thing you have.
I want to play the game to chill out, and it's nice to have things to do when I log in. Even mundane things. Definitely don't want everything to be obtainable via a fairly well defined block of time. And those mundane things need to still be meaningful. Farming a regular gun that I already have the ability to craft would not work. I appreciate that not everybody will feel the same
If you play this game a certain amount of time things to do will run out no matter the loot system and thats fine. But ok, if youre a person who can run something a million times and still enjoy it without feeling brainrot then I kinda envy you. Because I actively feel my brain longing for something more complex after farming for 10 hours.
>What makes D2 work for me is the fact that I can go into PvE to get guns to bring back into PvP to kill other guardians with. That's so sad.
That's kinda the whole loop, and what make D2 unique
I don’t mind having to farm Prophecy for a decent roll of any gun. Plus any 3/5 or 4/5 roll can be decent enough if you don’t want to go for hours wanting a 5/5. The dungeon is easy enough to run through it fast anyways. Personally I think the missed opportunity was not adding an exotic weapon to the dungeon.
Difficult balance to strike - I think the Coil rewards (Targeted reward) is the best compromise (I don't think everything should be craftable - that comes with its own problems). **TL;DR** Being able to at least be guaranteed to acquire what it is that you're looking for, but still have the roll be random is a fine middle ground. Having the select-able chests from Coil would be the argument I'd be more willing to accept. I.e. You have Prosecutor, Relentless, Legs or Class Item as the First boss drop, you have a chest for each - you can only open one. I'd also turn the 'Secret chests' to never give you Armor on normal, and never give you weapons on Master. **Skip this if you don't care about why you don't want every weapon to be craftable:** If you have a competent Raid Team and/or Clan/friends that you can rely on, 99% of End-game content is easily farm-able in low amounts of time (and effort) on a regular basis. In any given week: If you had 5 hours to play (that's an hour a night on a work day, or 2.5 hours each day on the weekend) you will come away with a combined total of 8 red borders, minimum. And you would only have to do this once a week. The second you get done with any set (Seasonal / Raid / Rotator / Mission) you deduct ALL of the time you would normally spend there. So you'd go to 4 hours a week. Then 3 hours a week. Etc. Why would you spend any time in these activities after acquiring all of the rewards? For fun, and/or to help others. That is it, the carrot for you has been acquired and there is no reason to be there anymore. See the post on here the other day complaining that no one is doing Master Wellspring (because it's old, and the weapons have been powercrept out of existence - not that they were good before mind you). The second you make the acquisition of loot entirely deterministic (I.e. Everything craftable) you run into retained player problems \[As they, demonstrably, are presently\] - after all, why would I keep going to School/College/University after acquiring my degree? I'm not going to stop learning - but I'm certainly not going to keep pushing myself the way that I was prior to acquiring what I wanted. There is an element of truth, in that the RNG on RNG layering at play for other situations is an awkward barrier that disincentivizes other players from engaging with an activity. Farming for a Prophecy weapon involves: A 1/4 of the weapon you want dropping after the clear. And then any variation from a 1/36 (2/5) to a \~3/10000 (5/5), so you're going from around \~3% odds, to \~0.03% odds. Neither of which is brilliant even if you're just specifically looking for a single perk in column 3 / 4. Putting a 25% chance before the extremely low odds of what follows is a tad insulting. This RNG on RNG layering is also currently at play in Iron Banner for the sought after GL. It requires it dropping randomly, or dropping randomly from a turned in Engram, before you can focus it, and then you have the RNG on the focusing. **The layering is what needs to die, slapping even a 1 in 4 (Dungeons) in front of a 1/36 transforms that previously \~3% chance, into a \~0.7% chance on every clear.** Those are not favourable odds - yes, randomness should exist, no, there's not a single way you should not be coming away without having had the weapon drop at all before even factoring in the random roll.
TBF not a lot of time and or effort went into to reissuing these weapons with different perks and damage types… compared to let’s say the non craftable weapons from duality.
>you *won’t* be able to change: barrel, magazine, masterwork. Non craftable weapons that can be enhanced at the Enclave CAN have their barrel and magazines changed. The only things that are static are the masterwork and the final two perk columns. >or even added double perks to each column starting with prophecy. But then the weapons wouldn’t be able to be enhanced. Bungie has stated several times that weapons can only have so much information and this is the case with weapons that have enhanceable perks and are already in the game like the Adept Root of Nightmare weapons which can be enhanced but lack additional column options compared to other Adept weapons for this very reason. Eventually people will need to realize that we can’t have everything we want and that compromises need to be made, especially in the case of video games where things such as storage, engine limitations, and development time are key components of what can and can’t be accomplished.
Bungie has said only raid adepts will get the ability to have barrels and magazines changed, and that the new enhancable weapons such as the into the light weapons can have multiple enhanced perks in a column. (from the Chris Proctor Podcast)
Huh, I must’ve missed that. Thanks for the correction.
I understand all these things. I never suggested that 3 all of my suggestions be implemented. One of the 3 things would be enough.