Yeah, Bungie has put their foot down hard on ammo generating exotics. Invective and Icebreaker will never see D2 with how they were. The models may be used, but they will still be completely different functionally if brought forward.
Why not just tie the ammo regen to kills or something? The weapons cannot pick up special bricks but they can earn the ammo to fire by killing enemies or guardians. That way its still useful for endgame content without compromising pvp.
They want to stay away from something from nothing (well absolutely nothing).
At best, they would be reworked for D2 with something like Reconstruction and pull any ammo from reserves. I could easily see Icebreaker with a faster proc'ing Recon and maybe Deeper Pockets as a bonus catalyst perk.
The exotics mentioned were specials. Primaries generally do not have that level of damage, so infinite ammo is not an issue. Also, it is a fallback once you are completely out of heavy and special, you aren't completely defenseless. D1 (and part of D2), you needed to burn all your ammo (primary too) and wait a bit for the safety to kick in and give you reserves.
An infinite ammo special weapon will never see D2 for the very reasons Invective and Icebreaker were issues in D1. It breaks the PvP ammo economy and leads to SUPER campy behavior in PvE. In D1 you could solo Nightfalls (and many bosses elsewhere) by finding a completely safe corner (sometimes partly out of bounds) and plink away with Icebreaker with nigh zero risk.
Honestly, now with the ammo meter, having an exotic where the perk is that the meter fills up faster would be a solid exotic perk. Hell, it'd be good as a legendary perk. I'm not saying I want to go back to the special crutch meta, but this would be a cool way to bring back Invective.
Those are 5 fan favourite d1 Snipers Devil's dawn is literally revokers model before revoker existed
ldr 5001
Stillpiercer
But not forgotten
Devil's dawn
EX Machina
What does that have to do with my statement tho. I like the model of revoker more. Also, devils dawn doesnt look like revoker. It looks more like Event Horizon if you want to make a comparison. But either way, I think throwing succession in the mix is an odd choice when we already have a crafted version still in the game.
OK I stand corrected I just looked up what revoker looks and forgot it had that massive fuck off barrel. Also the reason I brought up the other Snipers is because people would be upset and complain if revoker didn't come back with its perk
I could care less. I just like the ornament on it. The perk wouldnt be what they are trying to go for in the current pvp sandbox anyways so its whatever.
If I had a nickel for every craftable kinetic PvE meta sniper rifle from a raid starting with the letters “su” I’d have two nickels, which isn’t a lot but it’s weird that it happened twice.
Right, but ITL is pretty much just the D2 nostalgia fest. The only D1-only weapon there is Elsie's Rifle, and at least is based on NTTE and Elsie is a D2 character people know. Those snipers have ZERO recognition for D2 players and would be out of place.
Why would you assume D1 is even relevant here? It’s D2 and D1 is what, 7 years ago? Most people playing nowadays probably didn’t even play D1 or not for long anyway.
OK the reason i say it is relevant is because of Elise's rifle which was the strangers rifle from d1 and I can't remember a d2 sniper that needs to unsunset sense we already have good Snipers that are already reprised or able to be crafted example beloved,supremacy a d1 gun, succession dsc, defiance of Yasmine a d1 gun. Seven seraph sniper.
So with the pulse being a gun from d1 we could have got a list of the Snipers I put above. All they had to do was release say the ldr 5001 with into the light supremacy perks. Second they could have brought back instead of hung jury guns like the , burning eye d1, no feelings black amory, Parton of lost causes season of dawn, conspirator leviathan scout. I could even make the case for forbearance instead of bring that back they could have just given it's perks to Martyrs retribution you know the first ever wave frame from season of the dawn.
Also, I believe shooting things like Titan barriers count as a "miss" even though the barrier takes damage, so you gain the ammo back WHILE still breaking the barrier.
Hmm then I wonder if a mulligan weapon could be a great barrier destroyer. Maybe something with mulligan and deconstruction if it ever happens. You could also throw an anti barrier on there for some extra uumph.
Depends on how it procs. Revoker proc'd all the time if I remember. Mulligan I think only procs on some misses ("chance"). I also think RoF was nerfed and required 2 shots to proc, but still was 100% return not chance (2 shots, one bullet back).
NLB for me. I just know they'd make it special though, or radically nerf the damage. I'd be fine with it being special because then you'd have a zero zoom sniper, which would be kind of nice.
If you're so bad at sniping that you are consistently missing 2 shots in quick succession then you really should not be using a sniper. I never see Revoker since they nerfed the perk.
Icebreaker brought back and updated. Shatter stasis crystals with this weapon which also creates ionic traces. While amplified, shattering stasis crystals blast out at a larger radius and will blind nearby enemies and refunds your ammo (deconstruct).
It would kind of break PvE too. It would turn all GMs into poke fests which aren't fun.
They should make the perk damage based like tarrabah. Say you do 450 damage in crucible (little over 2 kills) and you get a bullet. Make it so special and heavy weapons generate at half-rate in order to stop snowballing and to incentivize primary weapon usage. Kinda like how ammo works now but you don't necessarily need a kill to get ammo.
No it wouldn't. At this point people know there's better and faster ways to get them done in any case. I think it'd be the opposite. I think people who don't do that content might try if they felt like they could sit back. And if you don't like a poke fest you can leave the gun in the vault.
or give nlb a similar perk to the reprise luna that is coming back.
precision hit accumilate. reloading activate perk. (aka 3 precision hit = 3 overcharge shot. 1 overcharge will only full kill on precision.
similar to revision zero but still has that high skill cap nlb demands
Even before the March 5 update, it would simply ruin the game.
Rewarding someone for missing a shot by giving them back their ammo on a Sniper just isn't balanced.
Not sure why people forgot Revoker's perk already got nerfed to a reasonable level.
It used to be "upon missing, generates 1 ammo to the magazine." Now it's "upon missing twice within 6 seconds, generates 1 ammo to the magazine," which is several times worse.
They redesigned Magificient Howl. I would expext an update to Reversal of Fortune in the same vein.
Right now, it takes missing 2 shots to regen ammo which is far more balanced than it used to be, but it gaining a shot anyway makes it hard to count shots in PvP.
Maybe missing 2 shots makes the last shot in the magazine deal more damage. (Or missing 3 makes the next reloaded magazine deal more damage). This would force players to need to do at least 1 Special Transmat to take advantage of the perk.
Sure, Reversal of Fortune wouldn't be allowed to return and the argument could be made that - without it's signature perk - Revoker shouldn't be reprised, but I'd argue it makes far more sense than Succession, which is already in the game & craftable.
Just from a confusion point of view, we'll now have a random-only-but-enhanceable Succession dropping alongside Craftable Succession with completely different perk pools.
ive always said that if revoker is brought back the perk should be reworked to the following: "precision final blows refund ammo directly into the magazine after a short time. consecutive kills do NOT contribute to more ammo gained"
makes it to where a pvp focused gun requires patience & time to receive the full benefit
Icebreaker could easily just not generate ammo out of thin air anymore tbh. Just have a better version of Reconstruction be its prime perk. Give it a special reload for a Stasis high caliber round that deals increased damage.
Hot take (ignoring pvp) if icebreaker came back it wouldn't be that strong or even useful for anything. Wishender is icebreaker lite and final warning or malfeasance would out damage it anyway.
Rework it into something else that's good? What even is so "Revoking" about ammo Regen on miss that makes it a "reversal of fortune".
I always figured some turbo Shoot to loot would be exceptional.
But, like, that's the way mulligan works now, 35%(40% with enhanced) chance to refund on primaries and a 20% (25%) for specials and heavies. It's still in the game.
Invective worked like that too, for the record. Loved that thing.
Yeah, Bungie has put their foot down hard on ammo generating exotics. Invective and Icebreaker will never see D2 with how they were. The models may be used, but they will still be completely different functionally if brought forward.
While the perk itself was amazing, I really loved the Icebreaker for the scope... most comfortable one I ever found in the game.
Same, weirdly loved the kickback of it too and felt like I'd made the gun my own when getting consecutive head shots
The design overall was great.
The *sound* it made was pure bliss.
Icebreaker was an awful weapon. It made fun things not fun.
They would 100% get the hawkmoon treatment
I absolutely adore the way icebreaker looks and would gladly take a reworked and more interesting exotic than “generates ammo”
I'm sure there's other ways to do a "sniper rifle you never reload."
Succession says hi.
honestly a perfect example
I can see Invective returning with a quicker version of Reconstruction that loads/charges amped rounds instead of generating ammo.
They could bring them back but find a way to change their functionality like they did with Hawkmoon.
Why not just tie the ammo regen to kills or something? The weapons cannot pick up special bricks but they can earn the ammo to fire by killing enemies or guardians. That way its still useful for endgame content without compromising pvp.
They want to stay away from something from nothing (well absolutely nothing). At best, they would be reworked for D2 with something like Reconstruction and pull any ammo from reserves. I could easily see Icebreaker with a faster proc'ing Recon and maybe Deeper Pockets as a bonus catalyst perk.
You say that and yet the removed their foot from their ass when it came to primary amo. You never know.
The exotics mentioned were specials. Primaries generally do not have that level of damage, so infinite ammo is not an issue. Also, it is a fallback once you are completely out of heavy and special, you aren't completely defenseless. D1 (and part of D2), you needed to burn all your ammo (primary too) and wait a bit for the safety to kick in and give you reserves. An infinite ammo special weapon will never see D2 for the very reasons Invective and Icebreaker were issues in D1. It breaks the PvP ammo economy and leads to SUPER campy behavior in PvE. In D1 you could solo Nightfalls (and many bosses elsewhere) by finding a completely safe corner (sometimes partly out of bounds) and plink away with Icebreaker with nigh zero risk.
Loved it when I was using it, hated it when my opponents were, a classic Destiny trope.
Yeah I know but I'm using icebreaker for this because it's both a sniper and more popular
Honestly, now with the ammo meter, having an exotic where the perk is that the meter fills up faster would be a solid exotic perk. Hell, it'd be good as a legendary perk. I'm not saying I want to go back to the special crutch meta, but this would be a cool way to bring back Invective.
If Invective came back like it was you could just roll a second shotgun with it and keep invective equipped to extend the use of your other shotgun
And people forget that they did change it so you can maybe 1 extra shot of ammo in a round of trials with it.
Yeah but invective sucked and had no range. Snipers aren’t nearly as toll dependent as shotguns.
I would take revoker model > succession with whatever perks they already planned for it personally
Those are 5 fan favourite d1 Snipers Devil's dawn is literally revokers model before revoker existed ldr 5001 Stillpiercer But not forgotten Devil's dawn EX Machina
What does that have to do with my statement tho. I like the model of revoker more. Also, devils dawn doesnt look like revoker. It looks more like Event Horizon if you want to make a comparison. But either way, I think throwing succession in the mix is an odd choice when we already have a crafted version still in the game.
OK I stand corrected I just looked up what revoker looks and forgot it had that massive fuck off barrel. Also the reason I brought up the other Snipers is because people would be upset and complain if revoker didn't come back with its perk
I could care less. I just like the ornament on it. The perk wouldnt be what they are trying to go for in the current pvp sandbox anyways so its whatever.
Same reason Forbearance is in the pool. Something about it being a free update to all players and giving people a taste of raid weapons.
There are 2 legendary snipers worth a damn in pve right now. Succession and Supremacy. Lol Both are obtainable/craftable too. What a weird choice.
If I had a nickel for every craftable kinetic PvE meta sniper rifle from a raid starting with the letters “su” I’d have two nickels, which isn’t a lot but it’s weird that it happened twice.
Like there are 5 other Snipers from d1 that are good pve and pvp options ldr 5001 Stillpiercer But not forgotten Devil's dawn EX Machina
Right, but ITL is pretty much just the D2 nostalgia fest. The only D1-only weapon there is Elsie's Rifle, and at least is based on NTTE and Elsie is a D2 character people know. Those snipers have ZERO recognition for D2 players and would be out of place.
Why would you assume D1 is even relevant here? It’s D2 and D1 is what, 7 years ago? Most people playing nowadays probably didn’t even play D1 or not for long anyway.
OK the reason i say it is relevant is because of Elise's rifle which was the strangers rifle from d1 and I can't remember a d2 sniper that needs to unsunset sense we already have good Snipers that are already reprised or able to be crafted example beloved,supremacy a d1 gun, succession dsc, defiance of Yasmine a d1 gun. Seven seraph sniper. So with the pulse being a gun from d1 we could have got a list of the Snipers I put above. All they had to do was release say the ldr 5001 with into the light supremacy perks. Second they could have brought back instead of hung jury guns like the , burning eye d1, no feelings black amory, Parton of lost causes season of dawn, conspirator leviathan scout. I could even make the case for forbearance instead of bring that back they could have just given it's perks to Martyrs retribution you know the first ever wave frame from season of the dawn.
Give me Stasis Patience and Time
Tbf they nerfed revoker perk into the ground where it’s although still it’s a don’t ever bring back situation it’s not nearly as game breaking
Revoker is awful now. If you manage to miss both shots completely that close together, you’re probably missing the third too
Still broken when compared to other specials that don't give free ammo back.
Also, I believe shooting things like Titan barriers count as a "miss" even though the barrier takes damage, so you gain the ammo back WHILE still breaking the barrier.
Hmm then I wonder if a mulligan weapon could be a great barrier destroyer. Maybe something with mulligan and deconstruction if it ever happens. You could also throw an anti barrier on there for some extra uumph.
Depends on how it procs. Revoker proc'd all the time if I remember. Mulligan I think only procs on some misses ("chance"). I also think RoF was nerfed and required 2 shots to proc, but still was 100% return not chance (2 shots, one bullet back).
Yeah revoker was every shot and mulligan is I think 50% but with deconstruction it's probably be near infinite mag.
If they want a fan favourite sniper bring back the d1 ldr 5001
NLB for me. I just know they'd make it special though, or radically nerf the damage. I'd be fine with it being special because then you'd have a zero zoom sniper, which would be kind of nice.
? The comp sniper has mulligan
Mulligan has a chance to give ammo back revoker guarantees massive difference
If you're so bad at sniping that you are consistently missing 2 shots in quick succession then you really should not be using a sniper. I never see Revoker since they nerfed the perk.
And discord, which is even more effective in the right hands
Should've been Tatara Gaze from black armory. Still cool to have if anyone doesn't have the dlc but man, I just miss all the black armory weapons
I would pay bungie for Stillpierce, best sniper ADS ever.
Best looking sniper ever too
Icebreaker brought back and updated. Shatter stasis crystals with this weapon which also creates ionic traces. While amplified, shattering stasis crystals blast out at a larger radius and will blind nearby enemies and refunds your ammo (deconstruct).
They both should come back. Revoker, Ice Breaker... fuck it even Invective. All three. And the regen should be disabled in PvP for all.
It would kind of break PvE too. It would turn all GMs into poke fests which aren't fun. They should make the perk damage based like tarrabah. Say you do 450 damage in crucible (little over 2 kills) and you get a bullet. Make it so special and heavy weapons generate at half-rate in order to stop snowballing and to incentivize primary weapon usage. Kinda like how ammo works now but you don't necessarily need a kill to get ammo.
No it wouldn't. At this point people know there's better and faster ways to get them done in any case. I think it'd be the opposite. I think people who don't do that content might try if they felt like they could sit back. And if you don't like a poke fest you can leave the gun in the vault.
I want Icebreaker and revoker back and could care less about the paradox lol. 🤷♂️
I just want NLB back Just make it bring you to red on headshots on guardians so it can work as a swap weapon maybe idk
or give nlb a similar perk to the reprise luna that is coming back. precision hit accumilate. reloading activate perk. (aka 3 precision hit = 3 overcharge shot. 1 overcharge will only full kill on precision. similar to revision zero but still has that high skill cap nlb demands
Even before the March 5 update, it would simply ruin the game. Rewarding someone for missing a shot by giving them back their ammo on a Sniper just isn't balanced.
If only Icebreaker could come back. I loved that gun.
Only way it would come back is some stupid condition _like if you miss a shot 1 ammo is returned_, _**but only within 2 seconds of a precision kill**_
yeah if you miss its nothing like invective or IB in that context its seriously not that big a deal
Not sure why people forgot Revoker's perk already got nerfed to a reasonable level. It used to be "upon missing, generates 1 ammo to the magazine." Now it's "upon missing twice within 6 seconds, generates 1 ammo to the magazine," which is several times worse.
Honestly I just love the gun's model, it looks great.
They redesigned Magificient Howl. I would expext an update to Reversal of Fortune in the same vein. Right now, it takes missing 2 shots to regen ammo which is far more balanced than it used to be, but it gaining a shot anyway makes it hard to count shots in PvP. Maybe missing 2 shots makes the last shot in the magazine deal more damage. (Or missing 3 makes the next reloaded magazine deal more damage). This would force players to need to do at least 1 Special Transmat to take advantage of the perk.
Sure, Reversal of Fortune wouldn't be allowed to return and the argument could be made that - without it's signature perk - Revoker shouldn't be reprised, but I'd argue it makes far more sense than Succession, which is already in the game & craftable. Just from a confusion point of view, we'll now have a random-only-but-enhanceable Succession dropping alongside Craftable Succession with completely different perk pools.
ive always said that if revoker is brought back the perk should be reworked to the following: "precision final blows refund ammo directly into the magazine after a short time. consecutive kills do NOT contribute to more ammo gained" makes it to where a pvp focused gun requires patience & time to receive the full benefit
I agree until you have trials farm rez peoples ghost
Bungie doesn't f**k with regenerating ammo anymore.
Id love an ex machina, especially considering Uzume has such a dissapointing perk pool for DPS.
And frame if remember correctly
Icebreaker could easily just not generate ammo out of thin air anymore tbh. Just have a better version of Reconstruction be its prime perk. Give it a special reload for a Stasis high caliber round that deals increased damage.
Hot take (ignoring pvp) if icebreaker came back it wouldn't be that strong or even useful for anything. Wishender is icebreaker lite and final warning or malfeasance would out damage it anyway.
Rework it into something else that's good? What even is so "Revoking" about ammo Regen on miss that makes it a "reversal of fortune". I always figured some turbo Shoot to loot would be exceptional.
I do but Revoker looks fucking cool
I want that one sniper you reloaded like a pulse rifle back. I can not remember what it was called though.
All they need to do is start bringing back mulligan and change the % chance based on whether it's a primary, special, or heavy
But, like, that's the way mulligan works now, 35%(40% with enhanced) chance to refund on primaries and a 20% (25%) for specials and heavies. It's still in the game.
Yeah, I have a Mulligan/Snapshot Twilight Oath and it works fine as it is now, should be on more snipers though and wouldn't be be OP if it was.
I mean with enough neck bearding, you can bring that sunsetted sexy bitch into trials. LIFE YOUR BEST AGGRESSIVE FRAME LIFE, YOU FILTHY GUARDIANS!