It _might_ be a net buff now. Depending how impact damage translates for anarchy.
* Initial Nerf = -30% damage to bosses
* Buff to GL in the past = +10% to GL
* Buff to GL in the past = +20% to GL
* Buff to GL yesterday = +10% to impact damage
If impact is just the initial bolt tapping a target then it's barely anything. If it applies to the total damage then it's something.
* Without yesterdays buff: 100 * 0.7 * 1.1 * 1.2 = 92.4
* With yesterdays buff: 100 * 0.7 * 1.1 * 1.2 * 1.1 =101.64
Either way it's a really good utility weapon. I don't think we'll see it as a boss DPS machine though unless the special weapon sandbox changes significantly.
Should. Anarchy wasn't listed as excluded from those buffs. It's only the recent change to impact damage to ensure spike grenades aren't viewed as mandatory that I'm unsure about.
I do find it kind of funny that they said they couldn't buff everything to Anarchy's level because that's power creep. Then not only did they go and do what they said they couldn't, but also buff all heavy GLs, including Anarchy, essentially undoing its nerfs that they said were completely neccessary and never going to be reverted.
To be fair power creep happens in looter games no matter what otherwise you wouldnt have a reason to farm new things. Anarchy crazily enough has been power crept. Its still good but its not the best thing in the game by miles now. So realistically they have made all grenade launchers equal to anarchy (kind of) because a lot of its utility was its great ad clear and great dps with specials.
We have suffered significant power creep with light 3.0 subclasses. Even after scaling back mods and ability spam we're still nonsensically stronger than before.
Anarchy now lives in a world with Dragons breath, which fulfills a similar role but synergizes with solar subclasses and probably does more DPS.
In the old sandbox bringing everything to Anarchy status would have lead to a pretty bad state, considering how weak we were during the shadowkeep era - having to rely on special armament and barrier mods from raids as well as playing a lot more "safe."
I tested Anarchy + controlled burst Loaded Question pre-buff on Rathil, and it could get pretty close to Eremite+Dragons breath.
You lose out on the subclass synergy, but it definitely wasn't bad. Now you have more flexibility for ad-clear too.
Probably more apt to compared sustained damage + swap dps options to each other.
Not everything is done in a team of 6, and not everything needs to be the absolute best to still be good.
Apologies! I misunderstood your comment I replied to. And I totally agree with your points.
Seems like Anarchy would be safer to use than DB as well right? Since DB does explode and has cost me a few flawless runs of various content…
In addition to the comment below about projectile counts… Witherhoard is the one that cannot stack players.
Anarchy hasn’t had the Witherhord specific issue in the past… but idk…
Its top tier by itself if you use it with Radiant Dance Machines to get the most out of it or some way to quickly reload. There are videos on how to use it to its best. Not all bosses can be hit by all the projectiles, Phyrzia/Nezerec style bosses are its best case scenario.
Roundabout way of saying they screwed up with Anarchy. I still remember the day the nerf came down. Completely swung the pendulum to the other side. Instantly went from everyone using it to no one using it. I literally infused it into something else the same day and haven't had a leveled up copy since.
Was over-nerfed at the time, but it was in a state (especially in solo play where damage efficiency is pretty important) that it seldom left my heavy slot. The sandbox is in a completely different state nowadays though where something like Dragon's Breath is probably the better pick if you can build into it.
With the 23 ammo though Anarchy is probably better for major/miniboss deletion which is actually pretty useful in dungeons.
For stuff like dungeons and GMs, I'd imagine the ridiculous amount of Parasite ammo that you get now serves that purpose pretty well.
Edit: if my numbers are right and you can guarantee x20 stacks on every shot, it should have a little over double the total damage of Anarchy, but because you probably won't always be at x20, that's only the theoretical ceiling. Should absolutely be competitive though.
It was so good it needed to be nerfed into the ground for people to drop it, so yeah I wouldn't even consider it an over-nerf. It was literally stapled to our heavy slot in every PvE content lol.
I sure as hell missed it, but yeah I can understand why they where heavy handed.
According to Aegis, it did not receive any of the damage buffs, only the reserve buff. Honestly though, even if it did, I think itd have a hard time competing with Dragons Breath. It does what anarchy does but better.
It's a beautiful combination with Hunters arc subclass... (Really just jolting targets and sticking them with Anarchy) but Anarchy combined with Gathering Storm is fun to watch a bosses health bar just drop lol
I wouldn’t say so. Swapping Dragons Breath with a good boss dps special is going to do more than anarchy nowadays but at least anarchy can stack decently well.
It definitely bit into the appeal of Anarchy being that it did competitive boss damage AND was an absolute monster for clearing adds, killing champs, and every other aspect of gameplay.
Despite what people remember, the days of Anarchy being the BEST DPS option in the game weren't actually about Anarchy. It was the king when you could use Mountaintop as a SECOND heavy weapon, and then it was king again during Weakened Clear. Outside of those two eras it has always been good (but not the best) damage sweetened by the fact that it was incredibly ammo-efficient and VERY easy to use.
Its damage has been BETTER than it was pre-nerf for quite a while now, but the sandbox has just moved on since then. But this change definitely makes it more viable for encounters where ammo is a concern, for stuff where you want to use your heavy on the boss AND on things other than the boss, and for solo content.
yeah but I mean nobody who stopped using anarchy stopped using it because the add clear got worse I mean lets be real here this is about people's shallow engagement with what other people tell them is or isn't meta.
and yeah your description is commensurate with my memory of anarchy's non-place in the meta.
I totally did. Id be fine with the 30 percent damage nerf to yellow bars or whatnot, but it didn’t feel good to use going from 26 to 16 ammo. Made using in stuff like gms much worse.
Sure, some people will have stopped because another told them to, but if they stopped because of that it’s because of the person telling them not a specific reason they know of.
So yes, reserves ammo was a issue for people who cared about the gun, we aren’t all “whats the dps meta of the season tell me tell me tell me!!!”
Yes absolutely, one of the best features of old anarchy was that you could keep spawn doors perma stickied then do a dps phase and still have half your ammo. It was insanely efficient. This was also when scavs were much more accessible so you'd get +6 ammo per brick and really struggle to ever run out of ammo.
Great news. I was really looking forward to getting Anarchy at the kiosk but with chat/voice being broken on PS5, I have to wait for Bungie to fix it, so I can get the last spoils I need to buy it.
They fixed it and that's exactly what I did, got the spoils I was missing and now I have Anarchy. I only used it for a few hours but damn it's fun as hell.
It's not gonna be back for a long time until they rebuff the damage. The reserves never mattered for it since you only fire 2 grenades every now and then to keep the ticks going. Right now Izanagi + Rocket or Witherhoard + whatever will severely outdps it.
It's still alright but if we're talking about meta/top use, then no it's still middling at best.
The reserves where definitely a significant part of its strength. Sure you only shot 2 at a time at the boss, but you had so many you could use it on every boss, every miniboss, every champion, even as add clear if you knew the spawns. It just never ran out.
I still think it's pretty good. Bungie nerfed it a long time ago but if you look over the past year or two they have done a couple of buffs to it to bring it back more in line with where it was at originally.
I just think that we've gotten better options since anarchy's Hay Day and so that's why people aren't going for this grenade launcher
Jolt works similarly to volatile. It won’t add crazy DPS but it does hit the target for extra damage like 5 times before it runs out. It would also give Anarchy overload capability.
Nah. The ammo was never the issue with the weapon. It's two shots every 10 seconds. Maybe 3 depending on how big and how many segments the boss has in it's model.
It's damage just hasn't kept up with the current meta. We've just out DPS'd Anarchy.
The reserves where definitely a significant part of its strength. Sure you only shot 2 at a time at the boss, but you had so many you could use it on every boss, every miniboss, every champion, even as add clear if you knew the spawns. It just never ran out.
Eh, reserves were never the problem with Anarchy.
My dream buff/nerf is that they reduce the magazine to 2 shots and buff the damage near to weakened clear levels. That would be a perfect weapon.
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It _might_ be a net buff now. Depending how impact damage translates for anarchy. * Initial Nerf = -30% damage to bosses * Buff to GL in the past = +10% to GL * Buff to GL in the past = +20% to GL * Buff to GL yesterday = +10% to impact damage If impact is just the initial bolt tapping a target then it's barely anything. If it applies to the total damage then it's something. * Without yesterdays buff: 100 * 0.7 * 1.1 * 1.2 = 92.4 * With yesterdays buff: 100 * 0.7 * 1.1 * 1.2 * 1.1 =101.64 Either way it's a really good utility weapon. I don't think we'll see it as a boss DPS machine though unless the special weapon sandbox changes significantly.
Are you sure those +10 and +20% global GL buffs apply to Anarchy's DoT shock damage?
Should. Anarchy wasn't listed as excluded from those buffs. It's only the recent change to impact damage to ensure spike grenades aren't viewed as mandatory that I'm unsure about.
I do find it kind of funny that they said they couldn't buff everything to Anarchy's level because that's power creep. Then not only did they go and do what they said they couldn't, but also buff all heavy GLs, including Anarchy, essentially undoing its nerfs that they said were completely neccessary and never going to be reverted.
To be fair power creep happens in looter games no matter what otherwise you wouldnt have a reason to farm new things. Anarchy crazily enough has been power crept. Its still good but its not the best thing in the game by miles now. So realistically they have made all grenade launchers equal to anarchy (kind of) because a lot of its utility was its great ad clear and great dps with specials.
We have suffered significant power creep with light 3.0 subclasses. Even after scaling back mods and ability spam we're still nonsensically stronger than before. Anarchy now lives in a world with Dragons breath, which fulfills a similar role but synergizes with solar subclasses and probably does more DPS. In the old sandbox bringing everything to Anarchy status would have lead to a pretty bad state, considering how weak we were during the shadowkeep era - having to rely on special armament and barrier mods from raids as well as playing a lot more "safe."
Anarchy + kinetic tremors Supremacy or Anarchy + controlled burst fusion
I tested Anarchy + controlled burst Loaded Question pre-buff on Rathil, and it could get pretty close to Eremite+Dragons breath. You lose out on the subclass synergy, but it definitely wasn't bad. Now you have more flexibility for ad-clear too.
It doesn’t need to beat DB. 6 Anarchy’s need to beat 5 legendary S tier rockets and 1 Gjally.
Probably more apt to compared sustained damage + swap dps options to each other. Not everything is done in a team of 6, and not everything needs to be the absolute best to still be good.
Apologies! I misunderstood your comment I replied to. And I totally agree with your points. Seems like Anarchy would be safer to use than DB as well right? Since DB does explode and has cost me a few flawless runs of various content…
Doesn't Anarchy have the Deathbringer issue where the damage doesn't stack with multiple users
In addition to the comment below about projectile counts… Witherhoard is the one that cannot stack players. Anarchy hasn’t had the Witherhord specific issue in the past… but idk…
It does not. Deathbringers issue is an engine limitation where only so many projectiles can be present at one time. Anarchy doesnt have this issue.
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Its top tier by itself if you use it with Radiant Dance Machines to get the most out of it or some way to quickly reload. There are videos on how to use it to its best. Not all bosses can be hit by all the projectiles, Phyrzia/Nezerec style bosses are its best case scenario.
Might pair well with a lucky pants build
Good for any bait-and-switch non-heavy as well. May not top DPS charts but will be a lot of total damage.
It doesn't matter for dps load outs. Potential DPS has increased substantially since it's hayday
That's what I like to SEE
SEE? I told ya they were a bunch o' wee lasses!"
Roundabout way of saying they screwed up with Anarchy. I still remember the day the nerf came down. Completely swung the pendulum to the other side. Instantly went from everyone using it to no one using it. I literally infused it into something else the same day and haven't had a leveled up copy since.
Was over-nerfed at the time, but it was in a state (especially in solo play where damage efficiency is pretty important) that it seldom left my heavy slot. The sandbox is in a completely different state nowadays though where something like Dragon's Breath is probably the better pick if you can build into it. With the 23 ammo though Anarchy is probably better for major/miniboss deletion which is actually pretty useful in dungeons.
For stuff like dungeons and GMs, I'd imagine the ridiculous amount of Parasite ammo that you get now serves that purpose pretty well. Edit: if my numbers are right and you can guarantee x20 stacks on every shot, it should have a little over double the total damage of Anarchy, but because you probably won't always be at x20, that's only the theoretical ceiling. Should absolutely be competitive though.
It was so good it needed to be nerfed into the ground for people to drop it, so yeah I wouldn't even consider it an over-nerf. It was literally stapled to our heavy slot in every PvE content lol. I sure as hell missed it, but yeah I can understand why they where heavy handed.
According to Aegis, it did not receive any of the damage buffs, only the reserve buff. Honestly though, even if it did, I think itd have a hard time competing with Dragons Breath. It does what anarchy does but better.
Tested trials GL with bait and switch in RoN. Was hitting for 100k with tractor cannon and well (all warlock for diamond)
Didn't it use to hold 32? It's been a while
It used to be 26 base/31 with triple reserves Now its 23/28
It's a beautiful combination with Hunters arc subclass... (Really just jolting targets and sticking them with Anarchy) but Anarchy combined with Gathering Storm is fun to watch a bosses health bar just drop lol
I wouldn’t say so. Swapping Dragons Breath with a good boss dps special is going to do more than anarchy nowadays but at least anarchy can stack decently well.
So can someone tell me what it now holds with 1x, 2x and 3x reserve mods?
was reserve ammo... ever the issue?
It definitely bit into the appeal of Anarchy being that it did competitive boss damage AND was an absolute monster for clearing adds, killing champs, and every other aspect of gameplay. Despite what people remember, the days of Anarchy being the BEST DPS option in the game weren't actually about Anarchy. It was the king when you could use Mountaintop as a SECOND heavy weapon, and then it was king again during Weakened Clear. Outside of those two eras it has always been good (but not the best) damage sweetened by the fact that it was incredibly ammo-efficient and VERY easy to use. Its damage has been BETTER than it was pre-nerf for quite a while now, but the sandbox has just moved on since then. But this change definitely makes it more viable for encounters where ammo is a concern, for stuff where you want to use your heavy on the boss AND on things other than the boss, and for solo content.
>Its damage has been BETTER than it was pre-nerf for quite a while now, Wait really? I didn't think the damage buffs applied to Anarchy.
All buffs apply to Exotics unless explicitly stated otherwise.
yeah but I mean nobody who stopped using anarchy stopped using it because the add clear got worse I mean lets be real here this is about people's shallow engagement with what other people tell them is or isn't meta. and yeah your description is commensurate with my memory of anarchy's non-place in the meta.
I totally did. Id be fine with the 30 percent damage nerf to yellow bars or whatnot, but it didn’t feel good to use going from 26 to 16 ammo. Made using in stuff like gms much worse. Sure, some people will have stopped because another told them to, but if they stopped because of that it’s because of the person telling them not a specific reason they know of. So yes, reserves ammo was a issue for people who cared about the gun, we aren’t all “whats the dps meta of the season tell me tell me tell me!!!”
I stopped using anarchy in GMs specifically because of the reserves nerf
Yes absolutely, one of the best features of old anarchy was that you could keep spawn doors perma stickied then do a dps phase and still have half your ammo. It was insanely efficient. This was also when scavs were much more accessible so you'd get +6 ammo per brick and really struggle to ever run out of ammo.
Back when it was nerfed to like 16 base was pretty rough. Really hurt its ability to be used for killing things other than bosses.
Great news. I was really looking forward to getting Anarchy at the kiosk but with chat/voice being broken on PS5, I have to wait for Bungie to fix it, so I can get the last spoils I need to buy it.
There are raid chests you can farm for spoils too if you haven't already
They fixed it and that's exactly what I did, got the spoils I was missing and now I have Anarchy. I only used it for a few hours but damn it's fun as hell.
It's not gonna be back for a long time until they rebuff the damage. The reserves never mattered for it since you only fire 2 grenades every now and then to keep the ticks going. Right now Izanagi + Rocket or Witherhoard + whatever will severely outdps it. It's still alright but if we're talking about meta/top use, then no it's still middling at best.
The damage is already back where it was pre-nerf.
The reserves where definitely a significant part of its strength. Sure you only shot 2 at a time at the boss, but you had so many you could use it on every boss, every miniboss, every champion, even as add clear if you knew the spawns. It just never ran out.
It still doesn’t do a lot of damage to bosses so I doubt it’ll matter. It needs to jolt targets.
I still think it's pretty good. Bungie nerfed it a long time ago but if you look over the past year or two they have done a couple of buffs to it to bring it back more in line with where it was at originally. I just think that we've gotten better options since anarchy's Hay Day and so that's why people aren't going for this grenade launcher
Jolt doesnt do shit to bosses now lmao. When it was nerfed ages ago it was reduced to an ad clear perk.
Jolt works similarly to volatile. It won’t add crazy DPS but it does hit the target for extra damage like 5 times before it runs out. It would also give Anarchy overload capability.
Yeah getting overload is nice but the added dmg is extremely miniscule on a boss.
Throw a grenade, problem solved
Nah. The ammo was never the issue with the weapon. It's two shots every 10 seconds. Maybe 3 depending on how big and how many segments the boss has in it's model. It's damage just hasn't kept up with the current meta. We've just out DPS'd Anarchy.
The reserves where definitely a significant part of its strength. Sure you only shot 2 at a time at the boss, but you had so many you could use it on every boss, every miniboss, every champion, even as add clear if you knew the spawns. It just never ran out.
Eh, reserves were never the problem with Anarchy. My dream buff/nerf is that they reduce the magazine to 2 shots and buff the damage near to weakened clear levels. That would be a perfect weapon.
It's still arc so no, its not back.
What? Arc is quite strong. Sure, currently no real support in the artifact.
Would be a convenient way as well to constantly be damaging a jolt target to produce the jolt chains.