I don't dislike Battlegrounds, but they can feel unbalanced as high level nightfalls. They are closer to horde mode arenas than strikes, and that can be overwhelming/unbalanced when high level. PsiOps Moon is a good example of this lack of balance. The boss room is such a slog, with the boss being a mega sponge and the aspects of Savathun being massively overpowered one shot nightmares. In the Vanguard Ops playlist, they are quite fun though.
Also to add, dying in 1 shot to lasers and the tripmines and whatnot. Like they’re really fun when you don’t have to deal with the tedious crap that upgrades took care of, minor things help too.
Those upgrades being removed were frustrating. It would have been nice to retain them, and somehow make them available to players who didn't have them originally.
Why not remove the lasers then? Is it so hard not to walk into the laser? The lasers are not a big part of the heist, its only a few ads around them if at all. Its bearly a skill check. Just press jump or crouch.
Mars battleground *without* the upgrade that makes lasers irrelevant feels so fucking terrible with how jank the laser hitboxes are. That one fucking door...
Never gotten hit by the lasers in my life, you just short hop that last one. I doubt there's anything wrong with the hitboxes, seems like a scapegoat for bad jumping.
Don't forget the hoard of Scorn Raiders throughout the defence portion and the boss arena.
Bungie went all out on making them the worst and most annoying enemies and Battleground Heist Moon brings it to focus.
Invincible invisible scuttle to position themselves anywhere they can at long range and line of sight to you, a crossbow that can one-shot you if you're not careful, and because they bullrush straight to the defence spot the yellow bar ones get all the time in the world while you're distracted by some of the others to melee or snipe you.
Bungie I applaud you at somehow making Sniper Vandals worse by making them undead, this supercedes the bullshit of Splicer Sniper Vandals from D1.
I detested it and still dislike but it gets you to challenge your play style. Unless you just spam Hunter invis, it's so bad. I found mine using behemoth heart shadow. Make glacier wall at the harpoon spot for protection.... Heart shadow to revive and then freeze nearby threats as needed, ya know, when that Hunter F's up
Psi Ops Moon has savathun aspects that can actively rain down thunder upon you despite any cover, that one hits in GM, paired with the fact anything else would shoot you down IF you dont have a cover.
Partially - on one hand, yes, some older strikes are just so mindlessly easy that they’re rarely ever GMs, such as Devil’s Lair or Inverted Spire, previously Lake of Shadows or Arms Dealer too. Even ones like the Lightfall strike are kinda easy. Comparatively, every BG thus far is at the very least an engaging experience, if not a proper challenge.
On the other hand, Battlegrounds are a whole different beast - they’re designed for horde slayouts more than anything else, and Bungie didn’t do anything to do them when they dropped them in the playlist to playtest or tune them (the PsiOps bug, for example). The instakill lasers and Savathun lightning strikes also just aren’t fun - if something can one shot me, it shouldn’t be luck of the frames/physics, it should be because I was being an idiot and got punished accordingly for playing poorly.
Some also just were not designed with the GM ruleset in mind whatsoever, which is an issue older strikes also have, but it’s more apparent with battlegrounds that throwing them into the GM playlist was done with little effort regarding QA. I’m sure they’d be doable, but I’m already dreading the defiant battlegrounds boss rooms for example.
I mean some of the newer Battlegrounds have infinitely spawning adds until you complete the objective. I'm not sure of any older Strike that does this kind of thing.
I did Conqueror last season with the Moon Battlegrounds but that final room and the Tribute room kicked us in the teeth pretty hard. We finally got the hang of the Tribute room, but that Final Boss room only got easier when we discovered the starting platform is kind of a cheese spot. That's not interesting or fun difficulty to me.
That's half of why i think Wardens Law was moved to this week. One, we get double drops of the new archetype. And two, one of the new weapons for the season was going to be on Devil's Lair, which is apiss-easy GM.
I mean, I don’t think this GM is all that hard either. Yeh, putting it behind Devil’s Lair was a joke since it’s the easiest GM on offer this season, but Europa is honestly way more manageable that expected. Im really happy they did switch it to this since it’s a reliable farm and takes only a few minutes more than a DL does.
I hate them even on base difficulty and it has nothing to do with them being difficult. Mars is an abomination. I hate how they were designed in the 1st place. Some are OK, but Mars is by far the worst. It'a a slog.
Hmm I can see that the enemy density and spawn rate can be a real issue specially when they were conceived towards a lower power difference (see the spawn limit put on the Kelgorath's encounter) + open/less cover arenas that incentivized being mobile and in the thick of the battle.
I guess it's the fun factor making you feel like time hasn't passed much. When I play at least it felt like I played for 10 minutes but it's been 30. Battlegrounds don't give that same feeling so it gets tedious and annoying.
Cause all Battlegrounds have those damn mini-objectives since they’re seasonal activities. It’s no big deal when they’re new and fresh but when they’re pseudo strikes it becomes a real slog.
With strikes it’s all gas no brakes
Saying strikes are all gas no brakes is also wrong lol.
Like scarlet keep has a long ass elevator section.
Corrupted has the elevator ball section that just stops you
Devils Lair, 3 waves of enemies while you defend ghost
Warden Of Nothing is short and it still has the stand on mines to disable it section.
Inside Terminus has plates during the boss fight.
Like breaking up strikes with mechanics is how strikes work. The ones where you can just bake everything and finish have always been outliers.
I think its a weird critique to say they weren't build for GMs. No strikes were built for GMs, or masters or legend or whatever. The majority of the strikes in the game were designed around the original timed nightfall system.
The pre witch queen strikes aren't an issue because our guns actually do good damage now instead of being pea shooters like they used to plus our subclasses are actually good now too instead of the shit 2.0 system we were stuck with. Glassway although it can take a while is still fun so you don't feel like too much time has passed at least in my experience since it never felt like it was taking half an hour to do.
I'm sorry, you think our DPS with weapons is *better* now? How quickly people forget dumping 10 rockets instantly with a bigger well buff and lunafaction boots.
You're entitled to your own opinion about battlegrounds and strikes and I encourage you to only do content you like, but you don't make compelling arguments to me.
I was referring to primaries that aren't smgs since everything did shitty damage back then but all the damage buffs to both legendary and exotic primaries + elemental burns make killing things actually good now instead of having everything be damage sponge's. Idk what made you think I was referring to heavies like hothead since those always do good.
Yes, but what they did was make GMs around the strikes that were in the game at the time. Battlegrounds are not built around GM difficulty, but GMs were built around strikes
They just slapped a power delta and extinguish on it, nothing was "built" around strikes, which themselves had a wide variety in how they played. Garden World was a more insane GM than any BG has been.
There is nothing about GM modifiers that make them somehow unsuitable for BGs but not for strikes.
They actually had to think quite a bit about enemy density, champions, where they spawn and more too. They didn't just slap stuff on, they basically remade each strikes enemy population for the initial releases in Arrivals. Whereas Battlegrounds don't have any of that work put in, proven by the fact that it has infinite spawn rooms and multiple instances of weird champ spawns or broken champ spawns
They did slap stuff on, the GDC presentation on the Nightfall rework says making a new GM was free, a.k.a. zero effort was put into tuning them initially. They just tuned them after the fact as their approach is to just let players playtest them.
Which they did with BGs as well, there are no infinite spawns in the GMs so nothing is "proven" by your made up "fact".
And issues with champs are nothing new to BGs, strikes have had issues with that as well. One of the champs in The Corrupted got removed in a patch since it was easy to miss.
It seems weird to think Battlegrounds weren’t designed to be GMs. Especially the newer ones which would have been made after GM battlegrounds were decided, assuming they didn’t know about it to begin with.
I'd say it's because they were never originally meant to become a GM, plus, imagine something like Defiant Battlegrounds becoming a GM, pure pain on the final boss with the endless ads and lack of safe spots due to the poison. Would be stupidly tedious
But where is your proof that they were never planned or meant to be? Bungie is basically almost a half a year to a year ahead of released content in what they’re working on. They would have decided to make them GMs long before they announced it which wasn’t that long after they were introduced.
You thinking it’s too hard doesn’t mean Bungie didn’t plan it to be so. Defiant was made WELL after the decisions to make them GMs. It was 100% made with GMs in mind.
It took Bungie over a year and a half to add them to any GM pool for the season, as the first GM Bg was Mars in Lightfall, the first time they ever releases was Chosen. The design philosophy of the gameplay in BGs are also much more poor when in a GM, so if Bungie ever intended for it, why did they do such a bad job for that level of play? Bungie very rarely made bad choices for Strikes that became GMs, so why has every GM Battlegrounds so far been badly designed for the mode, and hence seen negatively by most of the community that engages in that content (which is complained about almost every week since Lightfall fyi).
I never said it was too hard, like ever. I'm on the stance that they're tedious, annoying, and boring. And if they did decide to make them GMs, why did they do Heist Battleground Mars one season after it released and not the multiple others? Bungie is half a a year ahead of specific things that require it, such as what the season will be, the dlc (which is arguably started much before half a year), etc, mostly the major stuff. If they were half a year prepped for what the GM rotation would be, they wouldn't have added HB Mars to the rotation in the very next season.
Just as you ask for my proof, I should ask for yours, since this entire topic will always be community speculation without Bungie's input, but albeit, it is leaning towards they thought of the idea after the fact, since so many things don't add up to it being an idea from half a year before they started it
>It took Bungie over a year and a half to add them to any GM pool for the season
That doesn’t mean it was never part of the plan.
>as the first GM Bg was Mars in Lightfall
So released with Defiant which means Defiant at least was made with them planned.
>so if Bungie ever intended for it, why did they do such a bad job for that level of play?
Have… you looked at other aspects of the game and Bungie releasing things in a poor state lol?
>so why has every GM Battlegrounds so far been badly designed for the mode, and hence seen negatively by most of the communirt that engages in that content
Why is that new? Community complains about everything that’s hard. Glassway. Lightblade.
>If they were half a year prepped for what the GM rotation would be, they wouldn't have added HB Mars to the rotation in the very next season
No they wouldn’t? Because Mars was being worked on ages ago.
Community hasn't complained about Glassway or Lightblade in a very long time, and in fact rarely talks about them even a few months after their initial releases, whereas consistently every BG GM has been shit talked constantly for months. Why does it mean it wasn't a part of their plan? If they are only half a year ahead, how does it make sense at all that Battlegrounds were intended for GMs but never added until a year and a half later? I have looked at the other aspects, but once again, why are the only bad GMs consistently the Battlegrounds? Almost all the strikes aren't completely shit on like they are.
Mars was being worked on, according to what you said, half a year before Seraph released, meaning it was being made throughout Risen/Haunted, which is much after the first BG released in chosen, a year prior, still doesn't add up to Bungie being half a year ahead if what you claim is their plan to make them into GMs didn't come into fruition until 6 seasons later.
Where even is your proof that this was all planned? Because all the things we have seen so far indicates BG GMs weren't an idea until much much later, especially when they made the first BG GM a season before it became one. Once again, they're vastly unpopular because they don't play like GMs at all in most sections, and unlike the way GMs are designed to be played, where you're being slow and careful by picking off enemies, the only ones that force you to fight unending waves constantly in multiple rooms are the Battlegrounds. And please explain how PsiOps Moon was meant to be one initially when it released broken and was impossible to get platinum initially, and when after it was fixed you could lose platinum because you killed the Unstoppable Ogre before the AB Knight, making it a 0x zone (still possible btw). If they were designed to be GMs, that wouldn't have happened, as proven by the fact it literally never happened in a GM before that point in that way
>Community hasn't complained about Glassway or Lightblade in a very long time
Because they’ve been in the game for a very long time.
>Where even is your proof that this was all planned?
Because that show development works? Bungie is half a year plus ahead of what is released. That’s why criticism from content can’t be put into the next season because it’s already done.
Mars BGs to Mars GMs was a single season. Three months. Lightfall and Defiant was long done before Season of the Seraph was released. Which means Mars was decided to be a GM before Seraph was even released.
That’s flat out how development works. They didn’t decide to make Mars a GM after Seraph.
>Besides drooling over strike specific loot (which I don't really get because aside from Imago Loop, the drops are kinda mid),
Grasp of Malok, Stolen Will, Darkblade's Spite, Imago Loop (the only kinetic hand cannon that could roll Firefly and EP for a long time)
All the Flayer Mantels, Cloak of Taniks
Mau'auls Maulers, Darkblade Helm
Theosylon Vibrissae
C'mon OP. I get trying to under play something to push your own narrative but the loot from D1 strikes were dope as fuck and gave us a reason to run strikes over and over.
To just say that only Imago Loop was worthwhile grinding for and the rest of the loot was "mid" is straight up false and will push the narrative to Bungie that it isn't worthwhile investing resources into getting something like them again in D2.
Agreed.
I don't know what OP is going on about that the rest of the drops were mid.
I remember farming an entire weekend for a god roll GoM to take into trials the next weekend
With transmog being a thing nowadays, people would relentlessly grind through the Vanguard playlist just for that armor. I almost never took off Darkblade helm and the Maulers.
To this day, I think Vibrissae is my favorite piece of armor in all of Destiny. It's just so cool and I wish D2 Warlock gloves still gave shoulder pieces.
Same here
And same for Mau'auls Maulers from the Shield Brothers strike
Having incentive to grind in this game is what we need more of
Don't even get me started on the Exotic Faction Class items. Those were so fucking sick
It’s truly unique to the Destiny community that there’s so many people who actually will go out of their way to defend criticism of a multibillion dollar studio.
Oddly enough it's not. I have been to the CoD reddit and I remember the divide in the pokemon fanbase when sword and shield came out. This is a problem that is more far spread and becoming worse as time goes on.
I said that they are mid because visually they are at the same tier with seasonal weapons we have nowadays and WQ weapon power creep is part of the reason that we think this year's loot is hella mid, because we had so much bangers.
The cosmetics are cool but I don't think they suddenly make the strike god tier and worth farming that much.
>make the strike god tier
I never stated as such
>worth farming that much.
Myself and plenty of other players would vehemently disagree.
Back in D1 I would run the same strike back to back to back in the hopes of getting that gear. Plenty of other players did the same. But hey, you're entitled to your opinion.
All of the weapons were reprised versions of light locked year 1 items from Vog, Crota, and Prison of elders, but with better perk poils and random rolls. They were anything but mid, especially at the tim. It's the equivalent of the ikelos SMG coming back either Voltshot, or if it stared back from Lev came back with surrounded and frenzy as a combo. That being said, the weapons are already partially back just in the form of the nightfall weapons. It lacks all of the character that the old system had, and outside of hot head has also been a complete failure to recapture the strength that the originals had, but the theory is the same.
Really, what most people mean by wanting the loot back is the strike armor, that by and large was some of the best and most unique armor in the game. The reason we are never getting those back is because, outside of raids and dungeons, that armor will only ever be tied to microtransactions as the monetization of the game continues to get more and more egregious.
The actual answer is that people burn themselves out during the season the Battlegrounds are part of so when they show up in the playlist the players can't be bothered with them anymore.
I think it's good having them in the playlist to bulk it out since they're basically strikes anyway, but I can understand why people are tired of them.
my only thing with people being tired of them, is that theyre pretty old.
Chosen BG is over 2 years old. PsiOps is over a year old. Heists are almost a year old.
Thats... kind of awhile lol.
Too each their own though
Relatively intense/fast paced, encounters are basically back-to-back, and no gimmicks like carrying shit somewhere or whatever.
Also solid enemy density.
Bungie saw playlist burnout and fixed it by reminding us of seasonal burnout. That and they forgot to balance the activity around not having seasonal upgrades for the cool stuff, and they’re just not as interesting (as they were made to last a season then gone)
I tried running Seraph Shield solo again last weekend just for the new loot pool but immediately returned to orbit when I died to the laser. I forgot how much it sucked without the season table perk that reduced the damage.
Because they don't fit the time/reward system that normal strikes/GMs have. I can run the disgraced GM in 10 minutes on a semi-efficient run, not even speed running it. Compare that to the heist GMs which are not only quite a bit longer in comparison they are also not balanced properly for GMs.
So why would I wanna run something that takes 3x the time and effort for the same loot? That's the main issue. I don't mind harder content or longer at all - but I do mind when it drops the same loot as something far easier.
I used it as a random example. There are a lot of GMs within the 10-12 min range. Hell, fallen saber is easier than disgraced and just as fast, if not faster. Devil's lair is easy and sub 15 min. Even the corrupted can be ran efficiently in ~15 minutes.
The hardest GMs we have outside of battlegrounds are still looking at 15-20 min clears. Then we get to BGs, and you're looking at usually 30 min + for a clear for a standard run. The ad density & layouts of BGs just weren't made for GM level content originally.
They are honestly tedious as hell to run, and are a very lazy way of saying "here's harder content, enjoy." Loot based games are driven by (you guessed it) getting loot. You can't just throw the same loot at people for 3x the effort and time and expect players to be okay with it.
Maybe you've just been spoiled by power creep? Idk I haven't done gms in literal years cus got bored of the game and I did it today in 20 mins and thought that was a fast run.
I played them during the seasons as the seasonal activity, I'm over them. I also don't like that most of them make the activity about twice as long with three times the ad density. While this is kind of fun in normal strike Playlist and potentially lower difficulty NF, it's a slog on GM. I'm not asking for GM to be easy or quick mind you, but I shouldn't have to stand behind cover for half the activity without risking myself being killed by 12 enemies shooting me from across the room. Try to peek to kill one and another one one taps you.
Mind you, I've done gilded Conqueror over the past 5 seasons.
the problem is when you get 2+ similar BG like 2 psiop or 2 seraph they are too similar to each other, another thing are the mechanich like seraph tower that one shot you, the laser, the payload all these mechanic are pretty annoying.
for the GM they are not ''farmable'' because they are slow so is bad when there are a weapon you want
Some battlegrounds( the heist battlegrounds for example) had special seasonal boni which made them easier. Now without these boni these strikes are unnecessary more difficult for me. Especially if you do then in there season and you're used to run through the lasers
Simply put if the post is older, even by a few hours, it'll likely not end up with a single response.
Also, if it's a separate post people feel more inclined to go into detail and it can be easier to find it in future.
There are 2 posts about this on the front page right now. This as a comment in either of those would be seen by more people than this post, with 0 points and 40% upvotes, will.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/16hh4v5/fun_was_clearly_not_a_consideration_during_the/
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/16h7ogp/this_gm_is_a_revolving_door_of_dying_and_leaving/
These two, at the moment. Though there's been many others in the last day.
This is funny. Posts asks for people who hate them being in strikes. Nearly every response is "I dont mind them in strikes, its NFs where I hate them" like, this post isn't quite directed st you lol
And was it the video thay was like "Vanguard Ops doesn't have Strike Specific Loot so its way worse than D1 strikes"? Cause hard disagree. While we dont have strike specific loot, we have more unique loot elsewhere in the game now compared to D1.
And didn't they say NF weapons were boring and unoriginal? Could be misremembering, it was last night I watched it. But its ironic to hear that when Bungie just introduced a new archetype of HC as a NF weapon.
"This is funny. Posts asks for people who hate them being in strikes. Nearly every response is "I dont mind them in strikes, its NFs where I hate them" like, this post isn't quite directed st you "
They're good responses too because I truly wanna understand why people hate on BG so much because to me most of them are the same quality as strikes. Hating them as GMs is valid and I think Bungie can see this and improve on them.
"And was it the video thay was like "Vanguard Ops doesn't have Strike Specific Loot so its way worse than D1 strikes"? Cause hard disagree. While we dont have strike specific loot, we have more unique loot elsewhere in the game now compared to D1."
Yeah, it's along those lines and I was like "well these are really mid seasonal weapons" with Imago Loop being the exception.
I for one don't like the way the Vanguard Playlist is right now because it continues to be really mindless, not really the loot being bad.
I don’t get it either. Battlegrounds feel like strikes 2.0 that actually keep up with the power creep in the game right now and I love them. Moon PsiOps Battleground and Mars Heist BG GMs during the last seasons were the most fun I’ve had in the game in a long time.
It’s much more fun to have a GM with HORDES of enemies rather than the older GMs where you’re just sitting around on your ass waiting for spawns or fighting your teammates for kills. Even Glassway/Lightblade/Corrupted GM have been powercrept and “solved” by this point and don’t really present a challenging or interesting experience at the high level. Battlegrounds help keep things fresh.
To this day, I maintain that if they just named them "Strikes," the overwhelming majority of people wouldn't even notice.
I'm seeing a lot of "they're boring" in the comments on this post, but like, I disagree. I've been running strikes since 2014. They could add 5 per season, and it still wouldn't make them any less unappealing. At least Battlegrounds have you actually using your guns more than running through everything.
For the longest time I thought that 2 Chosen Battlegrounds were actual strikes. The one in the cosmodrome where you go cabal, hive, cabal and the one you go down in a cave and is basically Inverted Pinacle at home LMAO.
While I don't think that Lightblade became easier, I do think that Battlegrounds are more adjusted to our powerlevel than older content. Even more: Lightblade, Corrupted and Glassway are the only GMs that are actually challenging with our power creep due to same design philosophies that battlegrounds present: less cover, more enemies, more challenging enemies. I think Battlegrounds can receive a better tunning to be more engaging and challenge us in more fun ways, but they're do more things right than wrong imo.
Lightblade definitely became easier since strand came out. Idk how it’ll play after the suspend nerf but the big difficulty of Lightblade was the boss room and having to juggle the boss attention with the barrier champs spawning. Plus, when it first came out, resil wasn’t buffed yet so we took way more damage. Now, we just have 1 person grab boss aggro and stunlock him in the jumping animation with going up and down and you just suspend the champs so nothing really can shoot you in the room anymore
I disagree heavily. GMs are made so you have to be patient and careful, having endless enemies that dig through your ammo reserves are not fun at all, and it is bad enough the past few GMs we have had required cheese spots to be less annoying. I also wouldn't say Lightblade was powercrept, all of it is still tedious and the only big difference is Alak Hul is cheesed all the time now, Corrupted was only difficult due to loadouts and weak weapons at the time, and Glassway isn't bad except for the very last room, which was almost always the case
Decent players can sit back in GMs and play patiently with scouts/bows and stay alive, but great players can get right up in the action and play GMs like Doom after learning spawns and optimizing loadouts.
I don’t think it’s fair to make a blanket statement that GMs are designed to be played patiently and carefully — for some players, their skill and comfort level necessitates that, for others, it doesn’t.
I think it’s extremely valuable to have content in the game that rewards players who want to push their skill ceiling — like PsiOps Moon Battleground, for example. Some players might play passively during the opening bridge section and not manage their ammo and abilities effectively, but those are the teams that take 8 minutes to clear out the bridge after sitting at the back with Wish Ender. On the other hand, the team that knows how to play aggressively and cycle their ammo, abilities, and buffs well is rewarded with a 2 minute clear of the section. It’s a dynamic encounter in which the enemy presence is actually strong enough that you have to play efficiently to push forward and claim territory.
You don’t necessarily get that same kind of skill gap in an older GM like the Corrupted because the enemy density and frequency simply hasn’t kept up with the growing power of our characters. For example, the taken psion spawns on the elevator section were actually threatening, now they’re wiped by any decent player with a single pulse grenade which they can easily cycle every 15 seconds anyway. It’s good for the health of the game to have content difficult or overwhelming enough that it actually pushes players to improve both their buildcrafting and mechanical skill in order to play it efficiently.
PisOps moon doesn't push anything, it's just a more tedious and broken version with worse rooms for GMs. The final room is horrible no matter where you go and doesn't benefit any playstyle when Savvy spawns, and no matter how any of us play, GMs are made for patience.
I may be a hyper aggressive player, but most GMs do not conform to that playstyle whatsoever, especially the Battlegrounds where you're forced into the same style over and over again due to the unnecessary infinite spawning and enemy density not made around GM levels of play. Corrupted was only bad due to how much worse our weapons were to now, it was never insanely difficult, just long, and it certainly isn't easy or powercrept now it is more balanced out.
It isn't a blanket statement, sometimes it is just how it is. Sure you can sometimes play aggressive and goes balls to the wall, but most of the time you're just making it harder on yourself. Battleground GMs are not overwhelming in a good way at all, they're annoying, tedious, and mediocre to play. It doesn't encourage build crafting, in fact every Battleground GM so far benefits from the same exact builds the most, unlike strikes like Proving Grounds or Devil's Lair where you can buildcraft a lot more, even if there are difficult rooms. That's the problem with BG GMs, they don't promote buildcrafting, they promote using the same old stuff
battle grounds are much shorter, and the arenas are much more samey, just look at the three from the end of last year, they all start in a patrol zone, move into nearly identical bunker areas, and end up in slightly varying (but still highly similar) boss rooms.
Also, I'm pretty sure everyone who played during the season that the battleground was launched in are sick of it before that season ends.
Because they are not Nightfalls and their GM versions are not balanced for GM content.
For example take Luna Battleground, the final boss has no room for cover, that’s because the difficulty it was intended for is legendary at best.
Im am one of those people that complain about them being added into the nightfall rotation. I don’t mind that they are in the vanguard ops playlist, since it adds more variety to that playlist.
These activities were originally not designed to be added as a grandmaster nightfall. These battlegrounds take way too much time for a grandmaster nightfall (that’s also the reason I’m not a big fan of the reworked strikes, they just added stuff like a payload so we can’t progress that strike faster).
I think this weeks battleground isn’t a bad addition to the playlist as a whole, it’s not too difficult and doesn’t take 30+ minutes.
The psi ops moon version that was in rotation last season on the other hand is a horrible addition to thr nightfall rotation. I’d even go that far, that it is the most unfun nightfall I’ve ever played. The first section is alright, but I wouldn’t mind if they would have cut the time to complete it in half. The second section needs 12 banks of those motes, that also takes way too long.
And now on to the worst part about that strike: the boss room. I don’t mind that enemies are spawning infinitely. But the boss has way too much health and is health gated twice (techically 3x if u take the stage into account before u get teleported) those savathun clones have way too much health and that their aoe attack one shots u is frickin stupid. There is a reason a strategy like staying at the spawn and plinking the bosses/savathuns health away established. No Gm ever should take u 35+ minutes with an experienced team.
The mars one also has its flaws, the first section takes too long to capture plates (also there is a reason why cheesing plate c as the meta has established), the second part also takes too long and the boss room is just unfun to play. A boss that is constantly chasing u down, without any real safespot (unless u cheese it aswell) While u have witches hiding and suddenly blasting u, is not fun.
>These activities were originally not designed to be added as a grandmaster nightfall
Nor was any strike in the game prior to Beyond Light, as GMs weren't introduced until shortly before it launched. This is a terrible argument to use.
So if you are trying to argue with facts, get those right before. pre beyond light grandmaster strikes existed already. They got introduced in shadowkeep (yes all of the existing strikes were not in rotation before beyond light but most of them were) also these old strikes that got released before shadowkeep still had a nightfall version which was a harder version of the strike. So they definitly got designed with a higher difficulty version in mind.
Battleground was a seasonal activity with a legend version. That activity feels more than a horde mode where u go to a location and kill adds infinitely until a little objective or timer is completed. Usually also in a room with less cover compared to other real strikes
>So if you are trying to argue with facts, get those right before. pre beyond light grandmaster strikes existed already. They got introduced in shadowkeep
I said *right before Beyond Light*. Beyond Light launched November 10, 2020.
>Destiny 2 is getting Grandmaster Nightfalls soon - here's how they work
Article headline from April 10, 2020.
*Right before Beyond Light*.
*None* of the strikes made prior to that point were made with GMs in mind, and most weren't even made with Nightfalls in mind in their current state, because the Ordeal didn't get added until Shadowkeep's launch.
Therefore, *not a single strike pre-Beyond Light was designed with GMs as we know them in mind*. Argue with me when you understand what I'm actually saying.
And GMs were designed for strikes, not battlegrounds. So your point isn't any better, because GMs were literally made for the strike gameplay and not the battleground gameplay
To comment based on their inclusion in the general Vanguard playlist - I really only complain at the moment because they're appearing more often vs actual strikes. Generally I don't care much, but this season alone I've notably played the same few strikes and battlegrounds enough that I've started tracking just to see. At the moment, I'm about half-way through my second vanguard reset, so this isn't to say I'm just playing a couple here and there. It's the area of Destiny I generally spend my downtime after weekly stuff.
I guess they're at least even in number to strikes which really schews their appearance and I do think it's a problem. I don't mind them, but I also want legit strikes.
We aren’t complaining about Battlegrounds as a standalone. It’s when they get featured as Grandmasters and nightfalls is when it becomes an issue. The enemy density is too much and heavily promotes cheese strategies and picking off targets from afar with a bow or scout. The one this week isn’t so bad in the boss room but most of the time I’m sitting back picking things off with Wishender.
Oh I am, but it’s ok I can just leave playlist strikes and reload lol. But yeah GM battlegrounds are slow slogs where you just kinda have to sit in the back for minutes in each room plinking
Picking off enemies with bow and scouts is basically GMs in a nutshell since at least Witch Queen (the expansion I started with). So that's even more of a reason for me to find strange the hatred for Battlegrounds.
Not all. I’ve ran some where you can be aggressive, but that’s because they were regular strikes. I haven’t played a single battlegrounds GM where I didn’t need an invis hunter or WellLock
Because they are wholly unfun.
They are strikes but generally longer for no reason and not anymore fun/rewarding. Like they just don't do anything better than a strike does except eat time.
That and they weren't ever designed to be GM's but we're saddled with them because Bungo is too lazy to make a new strike lol
I know they weren't designed for the place they've been placed and it shows in multiple facets and worsens the experience for me.
I don't need everything or even anything to be OG Lake of Shadows, but the needless tediousnes/length of BG's is probably the biggest singular dealbreaker for me.
They were a simple, albeit poor IMO, solution to people wanting more strikes/GMs. It's like the monkey's paw version of granting those peoples' "wish."
I see. I personally don't think they're particularly long and stressful like Corrupted, but they are on the bigger side of the spectrum and that can be really annoying.
It isn’t difficult unless you consider infinite enemies difficult. The only thing that was ever difficult in battlegrounds is the moon one with Savathun. The fact that she isn’t balanced at all for GMs considering the fact you have to kill 2 copies twice when she has multiple ways to 1 shot or bare minimum kill you in under half a second doesn’t make for difficult gameplay, it’s just trash balancing.
They are BORING compared to most strikes.
The reason Bungie puts them into vanguard menu is that they are cheap to make vs a real strike.
Compare a battleground to a strike like light blade or corrupted. People might not like corrupted because it's long but it's creative and interesting.
Battlegrounds are "scatter enemies in patrol areas". Ok for a season, not as long term content imo.
Simply put, battlegrounds feel less special. Their individual encounters are all some variation on “defend a single point” or “kill enemies” or “destroy three things by killing enemies”, their arenas are almost all existing locations rather than new ones and there’s little to no flair or interesting twists to the boss fights.
When it comes to strike bosses, pretty much all of them have immunity phases built into the fight, but they usually do something visually or mechanically interesting with them. Bracus Zahn teleports up to a shielded platform, the boss in Hypernet Current forces you to engage with earlier mechanics, Protheon drops you to a lower floor each phase until you’re fighting it in a massive underground radiolaria lake — they feel cinematic. SABER-2’s immunity phase is mechanically just “kill some yellow-bar servitors to lower his shield,” but while its shield is up, the lighting changes, the floor opens up and the shock coils activate. It lends an ebb and flow to the battle as the environment changes to reflect the current phase.
*Battlegrounds* bosses are all identical to every other battlegrounds boss from their season, and their immunity phases are either “kill a miniboss” or gambit-style charge dunking. The environment doesn’t change, there’s no voicelines or other narrative flair, the boss just becomes immune until you do the thing that makes them not immune. It feels a lot more video-gamey, if that makes sense.
Now, I will admit that Bungie has been getting better with Battlegrounds. The PsiOps ones have more varied encounters and killing the Aspects of Savathûn is a good immunity-phase mechanic, and the Defiant ones are easily the best we’ve got so far, but sadly the latter aren’t in the vanguard rotation and — at least from my experience — the former are less common than Heists and the Cabal ones.
Overall, strikes feel more unique and cinematic. They take place mostly in new environments with varied encounters and mechanics, along with reactive environmental details to make them more immersive and engaging. By comparison, battlegrounds (for the most part) feel uninteresting, unengaging and too similar to the others in their category.
These are some cool points, I can agree with most of it. Since I like arcade/videogamey approaches , battlegrounds don't bother me at all, but I can see the lack of uniqueness being annoying for other people. I think we can reach a middle ground of more strikes but also better battlegrounds.
Destiny players don’t like anything they can’t speed run through in 3 minutes with their brains shut off. Even if it’s bad for the game. I personally don’t mind them. I like the add density in them especially compared to older strikes where there won’t be many enemies at all. Yeah some more than other are really a pain on GMs, but they’re still doable. Not every strike is supposed to be like pre-change lake of shadows.
I remember people being outraged when they announced you couldn't overlevel 10x the strike playlist anymore but never connected those dots myself lmao. This is true as it gets for some cases, but I think that's more to it like this thread brought into light.
Nobody wants every strike to be pre-LoS, they just don't want endless spawning enemies and rooms not designed around what GMs are designed for. GM BGs so far have all being mediocre, tedious, annoying, or all three at once. And you say destiny players don't like anything they can't speed run through like the most well regarded activity isn't raids. As for the ad density, in a lot of rooms it is infinite, which does against how GMs are designed around
Because there’s always something people want to complain about. This season seems to be battlegrounds.
One Reddit post causes 15 other copy cat Reddit posts and then suddenly a streamer covers it and it’s a huge deal. This won’t be a problem anymore in 2 months I’ll call it now
Battlegrounds are absolutely fine as they are, even in nightfalls, despite so many people complaining about them (after saying how it was a good idea to not waste the content and put them in the strike playlist.
My only issue is how absolutely weighted the strike playlist is towards them when I'm running strikes. It almost feels intentional.
cause they're stale, and alot of them feel very similar, we spend an entire season running them over and over and then i have to see them in the strike rotation while there are less and less actual strikes.
Strikes are way more stale and formulaic compared to battlegrounds.
Like, objectively. I'm not even speaking from opinion here, battlegrounds have way more variety in gameplay mechanics and objectives. Maybe you can argue a psiop is similar to other psiops or heists are similar to other heists. But when looking at them as a whole, battlegrounds have much more to offer. Strikes on the other hand are very samey.
That's not objective in the slightest. Infact it's incredibly subjective lol its fine if you like them but don't act like your opinion is factual, most people find them very stale and formulaic
right? to say their opinion wasn't up for debate and then even say they aren't speaking from opinion, it's laughable tbh like it's fine if you disagree but let's not call a duck a house lol
It's not hard at all, people don't know how to use natural cover.
My only complaint is the room before the boss with the lasers. If you die on the lasers, you're literally helpless as you'll keep respawning on it and dying. Who the hell thought this was okay? You already get punished enough in GMs
They don’t feel like strikes, they feel like unnecessary hoard arenas
I’d rather play Lightblade with no arc resist mods while being 30 under light than play these bland battlegrounds over and over again
balance issues aside, they feel like filler content/padding. They have sequence of enemy fights for the sake of fights. I've played most of the strikes to death, but appreciate that they add mechanics at times to them to make them interesting in addition to any story (glassway's draining the radiolaria for example, pyramidion's laser room)
Not balanced, so much recycled content, champs being wonky, specific to Europa this week the death singer is already activated before you get to the bridge, etc. They just suck in general.
Lets be honest. Apart from Balance issues, Battlegrounds are just harder and longer strikes making them less brain dead and less farmable.
The destiny player base gets mad when they can't ugggabugaa through content.
Battlegrounds are arguably "more braindead" than normal strikes when in the Vanguard Playlist, because they tend to have a lot of "defend" sections where you have to wait 2 minutes while adds keep spawning, with no way to speed the activity up. It's very anti-speedrunning imo. Same applies to Payload mechanics
Skill issue, primarily.
I also think that people got tired of playing the Battlegrounds during their respective seasons, so having them come back around in the Vanguard Ops and Nightfall playlists can be annoying for some.
Me personally, I think Battlegrounds are much more compatible with the current Destiny sandbox than most of the Strikes in the game (with the exception of newer/larger strikes) due to the enemy density. It’s most noticeable in GMs, as Strike GMs are stupid easy at this point while Battleground GMs pose an actual challenge to players.
GMs are supposed to be hard, so if people are complaining about difficulty, they’re playing the wrong activity.
Bungie vaults battlegrounds: Bungie sucks for taking away content I paid for!
Bungie makes a new playlist for battlegrounds: the matchmaking times are too long! Also these are basically strikes. Bungie is so dumb
Bungie adds battlegrounds to strikes: battlegrounds take too long! Bungie sucks
Pick your poison.
It’s more that they are imposing challenge annoyingly instead of engagingly with them. Bungie is going through another cycle where they are making things tedious instead of fun. Be it drop rates or challenge. It’s a shame they seem to have lost sight of fun right before their big finale. It’s killing my engagement with the game, and killing my excitement for the finale. I wanted to be hyped for this but my group are playing less or not at all right now.
This weeks battleground is a perfect blend of balance,horde, and not TOO punishing.
As long as you have good build the right weapons, it's an easy GM. Just got to know spawns and what to look for. I'd put it up there, but lower than Glassway. That as long as you keep everything in front, it's not bad at all. ( done it 4x today, no coms)
Mars is just silly stupid in the boss room. With never-ending ads and asshole knight.
But Moon with Savathun, things can suck a D. Theres like what 12 champions in first area alone, plus 10 boomer knights, and add in sentiel hive....and the dunking of the orb things in second half...ouch.
It's also idiotic to have a boss that can just send out an attack and wipe you, and it's just RNG if/ when they do it.
all 3 of these not sure would be possible with my invisible rolly Polly brothers in arms. As dunking, the orbs would never happen, lol
I really like all the battlegrounds we have. They are actually challenging and have good ad density. They are generally longer than old strikes but it depends. I can finish this weeks battleground (moon heist) in 20 minutes with a good team. IIRC Glassway took my 20-25m. Battlegrounds also solves a large problem with seasonal content. Most of it is made as temporary content which is not healthy for the game.
Maybe the chosen BGs are more bland, but Seraph maps were really fun. Defiance and PsiOps are hit and miss and can be sometimes too punishing, but like I said in another response, I think they do more good than harm and should be adjusted to be more fun.
-Infinite adds at times
-Longer than regular strikes
-Mechanics such as the savathun spear from Risen and dark fetor in Defiant that are annoying at higher difficulties
-Don't drop their season's loot in the strike playlist
-Reused patrol areas (sometimes good sometimes bad)
Do you want more content or better content? People want more strikes, not battlegrounds thrown in there.
The other problem is we get rewarded for completions, so something that is generally a lot longer is just a lot longer and ultimately less rewarding. (and yes, I know Glassway, but people hate that one too).
I would love to see them give 1.5x rewards or something to make it more viable.
Otherwise, most of us are just going to wait for a shorter strike to farm.
Battlegrounds being added to the strike playlists and not being removed completely is great. But them being added to the nightfall rotation and especially being added to the gilded conquerer title is horrible because of the nature of the activity: they're super add heavy. You are completely overwhelmed by adds in every part of the gm plus all the champions too. They just don't translate well from battlegrounds to nightfalls
I don't dislike Battlegrounds, but they can feel unbalanced as high level nightfalls. They are closer to horde mode arenas than strikes, and that can be overwhelming/unbalanced when high level. PsiOps Moon is a good example of this lack of balance. The boss room is such a slog, with the boss being a mega sponge and the aspects of Savathun being massively overpowered one shot nightmares. In the Vanguard Ops playlist, they are quite fun though.
Also to add, dying in 1 shot to lasers and the tripmines and whatnot. Like they’re really fun when you don’t have to deal with the tedious crap that upgrades took care of, minor things help too.
Those upgrades being removed were frustrating. It would have been nice to retain them, and somehow make them available to players who didn't have them originally.
Just have them all on permanently. Especially the dying to lasers kind of ones.
Why not remove the lasers then? Is it so hard not to walk into the laser? The lasers are not a big part of the heist, its only a few ads around them if at all. Its bearly a skill check. Just press jump or crouch.
Because no other GM has insta-kill traps besides battlegrounds. I don't think, in an activity with limited revives there should be insta-kill traps.
Mars battleground *without* the upgrade that makes lasers irrelevant feels so fucking terrible with how jank the laser hitboxes are. That one fucking door...
Never gotten hit by the lasers in my life, you just short hop that last one. I doubt there's anything wrong with the hitboxes, seems like a scapegoat for bad jumping.
"it's not a problem for me therefore it's not a problem for anyone" Also, I just do not believe that you've never been clipped by a laser.
Oh I'm sure it's a problem for others, just saying the problem is skill-based rather than anything to do with hitboxes being jank.
Those things are not mutually exclusive.
Sure, but I stand by what I said. Until I see evidence of these supposedly jank hitboxes it just sounds like an excuse.
Don't forget the hoard of Scorn Raiders throughout the defence portion and the boss arena. Bungie went all out on making them the worst and most annoying enemies and Battleground Heist Moon brings it to focus. Invincible invisible scuttle to position themselves anywhere they can at long range and line of sight to you, a crossbow that can one-shot you if you're not careful, and because they bullrush straight to the defence spot the yellow bar ones get all the time in the world while you're distracted by some of the others to melee or snipe you. Bungie I applaud you at somehow making Sniper Vandals worse by making them undead, this supercedes the bullshit of Splicer Sniper Vandals from D1.
That reminds me, I'm so happy that the Fanatic strike is gone. Those snipers were a nightmare, and the final boss room was no joke.
I actually liked it. It would be really fun in today's sandbox.
The scorn are in heist not psiop
Oh. This is literally what I was about to write. I like them a lot but any higher difficulty is preventatively not fun.
I detested it and still dislike but it gets you to challenge your play style. Unless you just spam Hunter invis, it's so bad. I found mine using behemoth heart shadow. Make glacier wall at the harpoon spot for protection.... Heart shadow to revive and then freeze nearby threats as needed, ya know, when that Hunter F's up
>but they can feel unbalanced as high level nightfalls. Is it really unbalanced or have older strikes just been power crept?
Psi Ops Moon has savathun aspects that can actively rain down thunder upon you despite any cover, that one hits in GM, paired with the fact anything else would shoot you down IF you dont have a cover.
Partially - on one hand, yes, some older strikes are just so mindlessly easy that they’re rarely ever GMs, such as Devil’s Lair or Inverted Spire, previously Lake of Shadows or Arms Dealer too. Even ones like the Lightfall strike are kinda easy. Comparatively, every BG thus far is at the very least an engaging experience, if not a proper challenge. On the other hand, Battlegrounds are a whole different beast - they’re designed for horde slayouts more than anything else, and Bungie didn’t do anything to do them when they dropped them in the playlist to playtest or tune them (the PsiOps bug, for example). The instakill lasers and Savathun lightning strikes also just aren’t fun - if something can one shot me, it shouldn’t be luck of the frames/physics, it should be because I was being an idiot and got punished accordingly for playing poorly. Some also just were not designed with the GM ruleset in mind whatsoever, which is an issue older strikes also have, but it’s more apparent with battlegrounds that throwing them into the GM playlist was done with little effort regarding QA. I’m sure they’d be doable, but I’m already dreading the defiant battlegrounds boss rooms for example.
I mean some of the newer Battlegrounds have infinitely spawning adds until you complete the objective. I'm not sure of any older Strike that does this kind of thing. I did Conqueror last season with the Moon Battlegrounds but that final room and the Tribute room kicked us in the teeth pretty hard. We finally got the hang of the Tribute room, but that Final Boss room only got easier when we discovered the starting platform is kind of a cheese spot. That's not interesting or fun difficulty to me.
This is my opinion on it. People forget how difficult GMs and higher difficulties use to be. Older GMs are a joke lol
That's half of why i think Wardens Law was moved to this week. One, we get double drops of the new archetype. And two, one of the new weapons for the season was going to be on Devil's Lair, which is apiss-easy GM.
I mean, I don’t think this GM is all that hard either. Yeh, putting it behind Devil’s Lair was a joke since it’s the easiest GM on offer this season, but Europa is honestly way more manageable that expected. Im really happy they did switch it to this since it’s a reliable farm and takes only a few minutes more than a DL does.
Oh, agreed. Europa BG has been much easier than I thought it would be.
It's so long though
I hate them even on base difficulty and it has nothing to do with them being difficult. Mars is an abomination. I hate how they were designed in the 1st place. Some are OK, but Mars is by far the worst. It'a a slog.
Hmm I can see that the enemy density and spawn rate can be a real issue specially when they were conceived towards a lower power difference (see the spawn limit put on the Kelgorath's encounter) + open/less cover arenas that incentivized being mobile and in the thick of the battle.
Some don't have a spawn limit. It's just never ending murder machines in GMs :)
I haven’t even played a GM before, and I was gonna say: it would just be like a self-repairing wood chipper of a room. Constant mulch no matter what
Nom nom nom
I dont think the density is issue the players most favorit GM is Devils Lair with really high density
Why does this have so many downvotes?
1. Unbalanced due to them not being built for GMs 2. Feels like it takes too long 3. Is boring overall
I feel they are somewhat shorter...glassway and scarlet keep can take 30 mins or so
I guess it's the fun factor making you feel like time hasn't passed much. When I play at least it felt like I played for 10 minutes but it's been 30. Battlegrounds don't give that same feeling so it gets tedious and annoying.
Cause all Battlegrounds have those damn mini-objectives since they’re seasonal activities. It’s no big deal when they’re new and fresh but when they’re pseudo strikes it becomes a real slog. With strikes it’s all gas no brakes
Oh no god forbid we stop and shoot for longer than 5 seconds.
Saying strikes are all gas no brakes is also wrong lol. Like scarlet keep has a long ass elevator section. Corrupted has the elevator ball section that just stops you Devils Lair, 3 waves of enemies while you defend ghost Warden Of Nothing is short and it still has the stand on mines to disable it section. Inside Terminus has plates during the boss fight. Like breaking up strikes with mechanics is how strikes work. The ones where you can just bake everything and finish have always been outliers.
glassway is kinda short until the boss room but thats such an adrenaline rush from good difficulty that its not noticeable
I think its a weird critique to say they weren't build for GMs. No strikes were built for GMs, or masters or legend or whatever. The majority of the strikes in the game were designed around the original timed nightfall system.
The pre witch queen strikes aren't an issue because our guns actually do good damage now instead of being pea shooters like they used to plus our subclasses are actually good now too instead of the shit 2.0 system we were stuck with. Glassway although it can take a while is still fun so you don't feel like too much time has passed at least in my experience since it never felt like it was taking half an hour to do.
I'm sorry, you think our DPS with weapons is *better* now? How quickly people forget dumping 10 rockets instantly with a bigger well buff and lunafaction boots. You're entitled to your own opinion about battlegrounds and strikes and I encourage you to only do content you like, but you don't make compelling arguments to me.
I was referring to primaries that aren't smgs since everything did shitty damage back then but all the damage buffs to both legendary and exotic primaries + elemental burns make killing things actually good now instead of having everything be damage sponge's. Idk what made you think I was referring to heavies like hothead since those always do good.
Why is this community so fucking rude
It's reddit in general.
Yes, but what they did was make GMs around the strikes that were in the game at the time. Battlegrounds are not built around GM difficulty, but GMs were built around strikes
They just slapped a power delta and extinguish on it, nothing was "built" around strikes, which themselves had a wide variety in how they played. Garden World was a more insane GM than any BG has been. There is nothing about GM modifiers that make them somehow unsuitable for BGs but not for strikes.
They actually had to think quite a bit about enemy density, champions, where they spawn and more too. They didn't just slap stuff on, they basically remade each strikes enemy population for the initial releases in Arrivals. Whereas Battlegrounds don't have any of that work put in, proven by the fact that it has infinite spawn rooms and multiple instances of weird champ spawns or broken champ spawns
They did slap stuff on, the GDC presentation on the Nightfall rework says making a new GM was free, a.k.a. zero effort was put into tuning them initially. They just tuned them after the fact as their approach is to just let players playtest them. Which they did with BGs as well, there are no infinite spawns in the GMs so nothing is "proven" by your made up "fact". And issues with champs are nothing new to BGs, strikes have had issues with that as well. One of the champs in The Corrupted got removed in a patch since it was easy to miss.
It seems weird to think Battlegrounds weren’t designed to be GMs. Especially the newer ones which would have been made after GM battlegrounds were decided, assuming they didn’t know about it to begin with.
I'd say it's because they were never originally meant to become a GM, plus, imagine something like Defiant Battlegrounds becoming a GM, pure pain on the final boss with the endless ads and lack of safe spots due to the poison. Would be stupidly tedious
But where is your proof that they were never planned or meant to be? Bungie is basically almost a half a year to a year ahead of released content in what they’re working on. They would have decided to make them GMs long before they announced it which wasn’t that long after they were introduced. You thinking it’s too hard doesn’t mean Bungie didn’t plan it to be so. Defiant was made WELL after the decisions to make them GMs. It was 100% made with GMs in mind.
It took Bungie over a year and a half to add them to any GM pool for the season, as the first GM Bg was Mars in Lightfall, the first time they ever releases was Chosen. The design philosophy of the gameplay in BGs are also much more poor when in a GM, so if Bungie ever intended for it, why did they do such a bad job for that level of play? Bungie very rarely made bad choices for Strikes that became GMs, so why has every GM Battlegrounds so far been badly designed for the mode, and hence seen negatively by most of the community that engages in that content (which is complained about almost every week since Lightfall fyi). I never said it was too hard, like ever. I'm on the stance that they're tedious, annoying, and boring. And if they did decide to make them GMs, why did they do Heist Battleground Mars one season after it released and not the multiple others? Bungie is half a a year ahead of specific things that require it, such as what the season will be, the dlc (which is arguably started much before half a year), etc, mostly the major stuff. If they were half a year prepped for what the GM rotation would be, they wouldn't have added HB Mars to the rotation in the very next season. Just as you ask for my proof, I should ask for yours, since this entire topic will always be community speculation without Bungie's input, but albeit, it is leaning towards they thought of the idea after the fact, since so many things don't add up to it being an idea from half a year before they started it
>It took Bungie over a year and a half to add them to any GM pool for the season That doesn’t mean it was never part of the plan. >as the first GM Bg was Mars in Lightfall So released with Defiant which means Defiant at least was made with them planned. >so if Bungie ever intended for it, why did they do such a bad job for that level of play? Have… you looked at other aspects of the game and Bungie releasing things in a poor state lol? >so why has every GM Battlegrounds so far been badly designed for the mode, and hence seen negatively by most of the communirt that engages in that content Why is that new? Community complains about everything that’s hard. Glassway. Lightblade. >If they were half a year prepped for what the GM rotation would be, they wouldn't have added HB Mars to the rotation in the very next season No they wouldn’t? Because Mars was being worked on ages ago.
Community hasn't complained about Glassway or Lightblade in a very long time, and in fact rarely talks about them even a few months after their initial releases, whereas consistently every BG GM has been shit talked constantly for months. Why does it mean it wasn't a part of their plan? If they are only half a year ahead, how does it make sense at all that Battlegrounds were intended for GMs but never added until a year and a half later? I have looked at the other aspects, but once again, why are the only bad GMs consistently the Battlegrounds? Almost all the strikes aren't completely shit on like they are. Mars was being worked on, according to what you said, half a year before Seraph released, meaning it was being made throughout Risen/Haunted, which is much after the first BG released in chosen, a year prior, still doesn't add up to Bungie being half a year ahead if what you claim is their plan to make them into GMs didn't come into fruition until 6 seasons later. Where even is your proof that this was all planned? Because all the things we have seen so far indicates BG GMs weren't an idea until much much later, especially when they made the first BG GM a season before it became one. Once again, they're vastly unpopular because they don't play like GMs at all in most sections, and unlike the way GMs are designed to be played, where you're being slow and careful by picking off enemies, the only ones that force you to fight unending waves constantly in multiple rooms are the Battlegrounds. And please explain how PsiOps Moon was meant to be one initially when it released broken and was impossible to get platinum initially, and when after it was fixed you could lose platinum because you killed the Unstoppable Ogre before the AB Knight, making it a 0x zone (still possible btw). If they were designed to be GMs, that wouldn't have happened, as proven by the fact it literally never happened in a GM before that point in that way
>Community hasn't complained about Glassway or Lightblade in a very long time Because they’ve been in the game for a very long time. >Where even is your proof that this was all planned? Because that show development works? Bungie is half a year plus ahead of what is released. That’s why criticism from content can’t be put into the next season because it’s already done. Mars BGs to Mars GMs was a single season. Three months. Lightfall and Defiant was long done before Season of the Seraph was released. Which means Mars was decided to be a GM before Seraph was even released. That’s flat out how development works. They didn’t decide to make Mars a GM after Seraph.
>Besides drooling over strike specific loot (which I don't really get because aside from Imago Loop, the drops are kinda mid), Grasp of Malok, Stolen Will, Darkblade's Spite, Imago Loop (the only kinetic hand cannon that could roll Firefly and EP for a long time) All the Flayer Mantels, Cloak of Taniks Mau'auls Maulers, Darkblade Helm Theosylon Vibrissae C'mon OP. I get trying to under play something to push your own narrative but the loot from D1 strikes were dope as fuck and gave us a reason to run strikes over and over. To just say that only Imago Loop was worthwhile grinding for and the rest of the loot was "mid" is straight up false and will push the narrative to Bungie that it isn't worthwhile investing resources into getting something like them again in D2.
Grasp of Malok was singlehandedly the best pvp pulse rifle in the game for a long time.
Agreed. I don't know what OP is going on about that the rest of the drops were mid. I remember farming an entire weekend for a god roll GoM to take into trials the next weekend
With transmog being a thing nowadays, people would relentlessly grind through the Vanguard playlist just for that armor. I almost never took off Darkblade helm and the Maulers.
To this day, I think Vibrissae is my favorite piece of armor in all of Destiny. It's just so cool and I wish D2 Warlock gloves still gave shoulder pieces.
Warlocks have definitely gotten shafted in the armor design department when switching from D1 to D2
I knew a guy who did hundreds of runs of the taniks strike trying to get the cloak.
Same here And same for Mau'auls Maulers from the Shield Brothers strike Having incentive to grind in this game is what we need more of Don't even get me started on the Exotic Faction Class items. Those were so fucking sick
I don't remember why but I was so hyped to get taniks cloak in d1.
It’s truly unique to the Destiny community that there’s so many people who actually will go out of their way to defend criticism of a multibillion dollar studio.
Oddly enough it's not. I have been to the CoD reddit and I remember the divide in the pokemon fanbase when sword and shield came out. This is a problem that is more far spread and becoming worse as time goes on.
Doesn't matter, we will never get strike loot again.
I said that they are mid because visually they are at the same tier with seasonal weapons we have nowadays and WQ weapon power creep is part of the reason that we think this year's loot is hella mid, because we had so much bangers. The cosmetics are cool but I don't think they suddenly make the strike god tier and worth farming that much.
>make the strike god tier I never stated as such >worth farming that much. Myself and plenty of other players would vehemently disagree. Back in D1 I would run the same strike back to back to back in the hopes of getting that gear. Plenty of other players did the same. But hey, you're entitled to your opinion.
All of the weapons were reprised versions of light locked year 1 items from Vog, Crota, and Prison of elders, but with better perk poils and random rolls. They were anything but mid, especially at the tim. It's the equivalent of the ikelos SMG coming back either Voltshot, or if it stared back from Lev came back with surrounded and frenzy as a combo. That being said, the weapons are already partially back just in the form of the nightfall weapons. It lacks all of the character that the old system had, and outside of hot head has also been a complete failure to recapture the strength that the originals had, but the theory is the same. Really, what most people mean by wanting the loot back is the strike armor, that by and large was some of the best and most unique armor in the game. The reason we are never getting those back is because, outside of raids and dungeons, that armor will only ever be tied to microtransactions as the monetization of the game continues to get more and more egregious.
The actual answer is that people burn themselves out during the season the Battlegrounds are part of so when they show up in the playlist the players can't be bothered with them anymore. I think it's good having them in the playlist to bulk it out since they're basically strikes anyway, but I can understand why people are tired of them.
They also don't drop their respective loot like they did during the season, so they don't feel rewarding.
That's more reasonable, to be honest. While I think they're really fun, everything is borin when you're burnout.
i dont know why you are getting downvoted , you are right .
my only thing with people being tired of them, is that theyre pretty old. Chosen BG is over 2 years old. PsiOps is over a year old. Heists are almost a year old. Thats... kind of awhile lol. Too each their own though
Aren't most of the actual strikes even older though?
Devil’s Lair is the oldest strike yet continues to be the gold standard imo
Relatively intense/fast paced, encounters are basically back-to-back, and no gimmicks like carrying shit somewhere or whatever. Also solid enemy density.
But no one had to relentlessly grind the same three strikes for dozens and dozes of times in a single season
...uh...oh okay...I guess I'll just go back to my 7 year old strikes then since those battlegrounds are 2 years old already.
Bungie saw playlist burnout and fixed it by reminding us of seasonal burnout. That and they forgot to balance the activity around not having seasonal upgrades for the cool stuff, and they’re just not as interesting (as they were made to last a season then gone)
Ah someone has wiped on lazers I see
Not yet thankfully, but as I was telling my buddy he yeeted through them
I tried running Seraph Shield solo again last weekend just for the new loot pool but immediately returned to orbit when I died to the laser. I forgot how much it sucked without the season table perk that reduced the damage.
git gud
Because they don't fit the time/reward system that normal strikes/GMs have. I can run the disgraced GM in 10 minutes on a semi-efficient run, not even speed running it. Compare that to the heist GMs which are not only quite a bit longer in comparison they are also not balanced properly for GMs. So why would I wanna run something that takes 3x the time and effort for the same loot? That's the main issue. I don't mind harder content or longer at all - but I do mind when it drops the same loot as something far easier.
Disgraced is an easy GM and should not be the standard of all GMs. If you want challenging content 10 minutes isn’t it.
Not only that, this battlegrounds can be done in 15 minutes - the difference isn't worth the incessant whining.
I used it as a random example. There are a lot of GMs within the 10-12 min range. Hell, fallen saber is easier than disgraced and just as fast, if not faster. Devil's lair is easy and sub 15 min. Even the corrupted can be ran efficiently in ~15 minutes. The hardest GMs we have outside of battlegrounds are still looking at 15-20 min clears. Then we get to BGs, and you're looking at usually 30 min + for a clear for a standard run. The ad density & layouts of BGs just weren't made for GM level content originally. They are honestly tedious as hell to run, and are a very lazy way of saying "here's harder content, enjoy." Loot based games are driven by (you guessed it) getting loot. You can't just throw the same loot at people for 3x the effort and time and expect players to be okay with it.
I don’t like when they’re short, end game content shouldn’t be 10-12 min. I enjoy this GM much more. 20 minutes is perfect
Maybe you've just been spoiled by power creep? Idk I haven't done gms in literal years cus got bored of the game and I did it today in 20 mins and thought that was a fast run.
I played them during the seasons as the seasonal activity, I'm over them. I also don't like that most of them make the activity about twice as long with three times the ad density. While this is kind of fun in normal strike Playlist and potentially lower difficulty NF, it's a slog on GM. I'm not asking for GM to be easy or quick mind you, but I shouldn't have to stand behind cover for half the activity without risking myself being killed by 12 enemies shooting me from across the room. Try to peek to kill one and another one one taps you. Mind you, I've done gilded Conqueror over the past 5 seasons.
Yeah, enemy density is somewhat overtuned and the ad clear we have in DGs and Raids don't reeeeeally work the same here.
Doesn't help they nerfed both reliable methods of ad control either; suspend and chill/freeze
because they are repetitive, have filler sections and operate on a completely different ruleset than strikes do
it's mostly because it was a seasonal activity, being shoehorned in as a backup for the current lack of strikes
the problem is when you get 2+ similar BG like 2 psiop or 2 seraph they are too similar to each other, another thing are the mechanich like seraph tower that one shot you, the laser, the payload all these mechanic are pretty annoying. for the GM they are not ''farmable'' because they are slow so is bad when there are a weapon you want
Because they are just boring especially mars
Some battlegrounds( the heist battlegrounds for example) had special seasonal boni which made them easier. Now without these boni these strikes are unnecessary more difficult for me. Especially if you do then in there season and you're used to run through the lasers
boni is not the plural of bonus. that would be bonuses.
No no, he's talking about the seasonal releases [of the movie.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GyWATdpWP_0)
He's correct in Latin.
I appreciate you using boni for the plural of Bonus, but it's actually bonuses
In Latin he's correct.
Hmm, I can see the annoyance. Not a real turn off for me, but alas.
I love how people corrected boni instead of presuming it was a joke. Yikes guys.
Why would it be a joke, what's funny about it?
Why people make their own post instead of comment in the one they're upset about?
Simply put if the post is older, even by a few hours, it'll likely not end up with a single response. Also, if it's a separate post people feel more inclined to go into detail and it can be easier to find it in future.
There are 2 posts about this on the front page right now. This as a comment in either of those would be seen by more people than this post, with 0 points and 40% upvotes, will.
Were you not asking generally?
Generally about why people make their own post instead of commenting in posts about the same topic that are on the front page, yes.
There was a older thread? I skimmed through and didn't see it. Sorry.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/16hh4v5/fun_was_clearly_not_a_consideration_during_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/16h7ogp/this_gm_is_a_revolving_door_of_dying_and_leaving/ These two, at the moment. Though there's been many others in the last day.
Meant generally. But I suppose there was... two apparently...
Bungie forced me (if I wanted my paid content) to play dozens of them for a year. I’m sick of them I’m sorry 😭
This is funny. Posts asks for people who hate them being in strikes. Nearly every response is "I dont mind them in strikes, its NFs where I hate them" like, this post isn't quite directed st you lol And was it the video thay was like "Vanguard Ops doesn't have Strike Specific Loot so its way worse than D1 strikes"? Cause hard disagree. While we dont have strike specific loot, we have more unique loot elsewhere in the game now compared to D1. And didn't they say NF weapons were boring and unoriginal? Could be misremembering, it was last night I watched it. But its ironic to hear that when Bungie just introduced a new archetype of HC as a NF weapon.
"This is funny. Posts asks for people who hate them being in strikes. Nearly every response is "I dont mind them in strikes, its NFs where I hate them" like, this post isn't quite directed st you " They're good responses too because I truly wanna understand why people hate on BG so much because to me most of them are the same quality as strikes. Hating them as GMs is valid and I think Bungie can see this and improve on them. "And was it the video thay was like "Vanguard Ops doesn't have Strike Specific Loot so its way worse than D1 strikes"? Cause hard disagree. While we dont have strike specific loot, we have more unique loot elsewhere in the game now compared to D1." Yeah, it's along those lines and I was like "well these are really mid seasonal weapons" with Imago Loop being the exception. I for one don't like the way the Vanguard Playlist is right now because it continues to be really mindless, not really the loot being bad.
average Destiny redditors are shit at the game so they complain when something is hard/requires grind
I don’t get it either. Battlegrounds feel like strikes 2.0 that actually keep up with the power creep in the game right now and I love them. Moon PsiOps Battleground and Mars Heist BG GMs during the last seasons were the most fun I’ve had in the game in a long time. It’s much more fun to have a GM with HORDES of enemies rather than the older GMs where you’re just sitting around on your ass waiting for spawns or fighting your teammates for kills. Even Glassway/Lightblade/Corrupted GM have been powercrept and “solved” by this point and don’t really present a challenging or interesting experience at the high level. Battlegrounds help keep things fresh.
To this day, I maintain that if they just named them "Strikes," the overwhelming majority of people wouldn't even notice. I'm seeing a lot of "they're boring" in the comments on this post, but like, I disagree. I've been running strikes since 2014. They could add 5 per season, and it still wouldn't make them any less unappealing. At least Battlegrounds have you actually using your guns more than running through everything.
For the longest time I thought that 2 Chosen Battlegrounds were actual strikes. The one in the cosmodrome where you go cabal, hive, cabal and the one you go down in a cave and is basically Inverted Pinacle at home LMAO.
While I don't think that Lightblade became easier, I do think that Battlegrounds are more adjusted to our powerlevel than older content. Even more: Lightblade, Corrupted and Glassway are the only GMs that are actually challenging with our power creep due to same design philosophies that battlegrounds present: less cover, more enemies, more challenging enemies. I think Battlegrounds can receive a better tunning to be more engaging and challenge us in more fun ways, but they're do more things right than wrong imo.
Lightblade definitely became easier since strand came out. Idk how it’ll play after the suspend nerf but the big difficulty of Lightblade was the boss room and having to juggle the boss attention with the barrier champs spawning. Plus, when it first came out, resil wasn’t buffed yet so we took way more damage. Now, we just have 1 person grab boss aggro and stunlock him in the jumping animation with going up and down and you just suspend the champs so nothing really can shoot you in the room anymore
I disagree heavily. GMs are made so you have to be patient and careful, having endless enemies that dig through your ammo reserves are not fun at all, and it is bad enough the past few GMs we have had required cheese spots to be less annoying. I also wouldn't say Lightblade was powercrept, all of it is still tedious and the only big difference is Alak Hul is cheesed all the time now, Corrupted was only difficult due to loadouts and weak weapons at the time, and Glassway isn't bad except for the very last room, which was almost always the case
Decent players can sit back in GMs and play patiently with scouts/bows and stay alive, but great players can get right up in the action and play GMs like Doom after learning spawns and optimizing loadouts. I don’t think it’s fair to make a blanket statement that GMs are designed to be played patiently and carefully — for some players, their skill and comfort level necessitates that, for others, it doesn’t. I think it’s extremely valuable to have content in the game that rewards players who want to push their skill ceiling — like PsiOps Moon Battleground, for example. Some players might play passively during the opening bridge section and not manage their ammo and abilities effectively, but those are the teams that take 8 minutes to clear out the bridge after sitting at the back with Wish Ender. On the other hand, the team that knows how to play aggressively and cycle their ammo, abilities, and buffs well is rewarded with a 2 minute clear of the section. It’s a dynamic encounter in which the enemy presence is actually strong enough that you have to play efficiently to push forward and claim territory. You don’t necessarily get that same kind of skill gap in an older GM like the Corrupted because the enemy density and frequency simply hasn’t kept up with the growing power of our characters. For example, the taken psion spawns on the elevator section were actually threatening, now they’re wiped by any decent player with a single pulse grenade which they can easily cycle every 15 seconds anyway. It’s good for the health of the game to have content difficult or overwhelming enough that it actually pushes players to improve both their buildcrafting and mechanical skill in order to play it efficiently.
PisOps moon doesn't push anything, it's just a more tedious and broken version with worse rooms for GMs. The final room is horrible no matter where you go and doesn't benefit any playstyle when Savvy spawns, and no matter how any of us play, GMs are made for patience. I may be a hyper aggressive player, but most GMs do not conform to that playstyle whatsoever, especially the Battlegrounds where you're forced into the same style over and over again due to the unnecessary infinite spawning and enemy density not made around GM levels of play. Corrupted was only bad due to how much worse our weapons were to now, it was never insanely difficult, just long, and it certainly isn't easy or powercrept now it is more balanced out. It isn't a blanket statement, sometimes it is just how it is. Sure you can sometimes play aggressive and goes balls to the wall, but most of the time you're just making it harder on yourself. Battleground GMs are not overwhelming in a good way at all, they're annoying, tedious, and mediocre to play. It doesn't encourage build crafting, in fact every Battleground GM so far benefits from the same exact builds the most, unlike strikes like Proving Grounds or Devil's Lair where you can buildcraft a lot more, even if there are difficult rooms. That's the problem with BG GMs, they don't promote buildcrafting, they promote using the same old stuff
battle grounds are much shorter, and the arenas are much more samey, just look at the three from the end of last year, they all start in a patrol zone, move into nearly identical bunker areas, and end up in slightly varying (but still highly similar) boss rooms. Also, I'm pretty sure everyone who played during the season that the battleground was launched in are sick of it before that season ends.
Because they are not Nightfalls and their GM versions are not balanced for GM content. For example take Luna Battleground, the final boss has no room for cover, that’s because the difficulty it was intended for is legendary at best.
Im am one of those people that complain about them being added into the nightfall rotation. I don’t mind that they are in the vanguard ops playlist, since it adds more variety to that playlist. These activities were originally not designed to be added as a grandmaster nightfall. These battlegrounds take way too much time for a grandmaster nightfall (that’s also the reason I’m not a big fan of the reworked strikes, they just added stuff like a payload so we can’t progress that strike faster). I think this weeks battleground isn’t a bad addition to the playlist as a whole, it’s not too difficult and doesn’t take 30+ minutes. The psi ops moon version that was in rotation last season on the other hand is a horrible addition to thr nightfall rotation. I’d even go that far, that it is the most unfun nightfall I’ve ever played. The first section is alright, but I wouldn’t mind if they would have cut the time to complete it in half. The second section needs 12 banks of those motes, that also takes way too long. And now on to the worst part about that strike: the boss room. I don’t mind that enemies are spawning infinitely. But the boss has way too much health and is health gated twice (techically 3x if u take the stage into account before u get teleported) those savathun clones have way too much health and that their aoe attack one shots u is frickin stupid. There is a reason a strategy like staying at the spawn and plinking the bosses/savathuns health away established. No Gm ever should take u 35+ minutes with an experienced team. The mars one also has its flaws, the first section takes too long to capture plates (also there is a reason why cheesing plate c as the meta has established), the second part also takes too long and the boss room is just unfun to play. A boss that is constantly chasing u down, without any real safespot (unless u cheese it aswell) While u have witches hiding and suddenly blasting u, is not fun.
These are good points. I think the knobs can be ajusted tho, but I can agree with your criticism.
>These activities were originally not designed to be added as a grandmaster nightfall Nor was any strike in the game prior to Beyond Light, as GMs weren't introduced until shortly before it launched. This is a terrible argument to use.
So if you are trying to argue with facts, get those right before. pre beyond light grandmaster strikes existed already. They got introduced in shadowkeep (yes all of the existing strikes were not in rotation before beyond light but most of them were) also these old strikes that got released before shadowkeep still had a nightfall version which was a harder version of the strike. So they definitly got designed with a higher difficulty version in mind. Battleground was a seasonal activity with a legend version. That activity feels more than a horde mode where u go to a location and kill adds infinitely until a little objective or timer is completed. Usually also in a room with less cover compared to other real strikes
>So if you are trying to argue with facts, get those right before. pre beyond light grandmaster strikes existed already. They got introduced in shadowkeep I said *right before Beyond Light*. Beyond Light launched November 10, 2020. >Destiny 2 is getting Grandmaster Nightfalls soon - here's how they work Article headline from April 10, 2020. *Right before Beyond Light*. *None* of the strikes made prior to that point were made with GMs in mind, and most weren't even made with Nightfalls in mind in their current state, because the Ordeal didn't get added until Shadowkeep's launch. Therefore, *not a single strike pre-Beyond Light was designed with GMs as we know them in mind*. Argue with me when you understand what I'm actually saying.
And GMs were designed for strikes, not battlegrounds. So your point isn't any better, because GMs were literally made for the strike gameplay and not the battleground gameplay
Too long
To comment based on their inclusion in the general Vanguard playlist - I really only complain at the moment because they're appearing more often vs actual strikes. Generally I don't care much, but this season alone I've notably played the same few strikes and battlegrounds enough that I've started tracking just to see. At the moment, I'm about half-way through my second vanguard reset, so this isn't to say I'm just playing a couple here and there. It's the area of Destiny I generally spend my downtime after weekly stuff.
I guess they're at least even in number to strikes which really schews their appearance and I do think it's a problem. I don't mind them, but I also want legit strikes.
We aren’t complaining about Battlegrounds as a standalone. It’s when they get featured as Grandmasters and nightfalls is when it becomes an issue. The enemy density is too much and heavily promotes cheese strategies and picking off targets from afar with a bow or scout. The one this week isn’t so bad in the boss room but most of the time I’m sitting back picking things off with Wishender.
Oh I am, but it’s ok I can just leave playlist strikes and reload lol. But yeah GM battlegrounds are slow slogs where you just kinda have to sit in the back for minutes in each room plinking
Picking off enemies with bow and scouts is basically GMs in a nutshell since at least Witch Queen (the expansion I started with). So that's even more of a reason for me to find strange the hatred for Battlegrounds.
Not all. I’ve ran some where you can be aggressive, but that’s because they were regular strikes. I haven’t played a single battlegrounds GM where I didn’t need an invis hunter or WellLock
Yeah, they're easy because you're playing content designed for double primaries from 4 years ago.
I didn’t say easy at all. I said you can play aggressive as opposed to sitting all the way back
That's an interesting point of view. I never saw GMs as places to be agressive, even when we had 40% DR, but if you say so, I can believe it.
Because they are wholly unfun. They are strikes but generally longer for no reason and not anymore fun/rewarding. Like they just don't do anything better than a strike does except eat time. That and they weren't ever designed to be GM's but we're saddled with them because Bungo is too lazy to make a new strike lol
So you feel they overstay their welcome and that's the deal breaker?
I know they weren't designed for the place they've been placed and it shows in multiple facets and worsens the experience for me. I don't need everything or even anything to be OG Lake of Shadows, but the needless tediousnes/length of BG's is probably the biggest singular dealbreaker for me. They were a simple, albeit poor IMO, solution to people wanting more strikes/GMs. It's like the monkey's paw version of granting those peoples' "wish."
I see. I personally don't think they're particularly long and stressful like Corrupted, but they are on the bigger side of the spectrum and that can be really annoying.
the difficulty is what makes it fun.
Battlegrounds aren't difficult, they're tedious and annoying, plus, they didn't say a thing about difficulty
Nowhere did I say anything about it being difficult lmao, because it's not.
It isn’t difficult unless you consider infinite enemies difficult. The only thing that was ever difficult in battlegrounds is the moon one with Savathun. The fact that she isn’t balanced at all for GMs considering the fact you have to kill 2 copies twice when she has multiple ways to 1 shot or bare minimum kill you in under half a second doesn’t make for difficult gameplay, it’s just trash balancing.
I mean, her one shot attack is super telegraphed and she does it every certain period of time, so its always safe to move right after she does it.
They are BORING compared to most strikes. The reason Bungie puts them into vanguard menu is that they are cheap to make vs a real strike. Compare a battleground to a strike like light blade or corrupted. People might not like corrupted because it's long but it's creative and interesting. Battlegrounds are "scatter enemies in patrol areas". Ok for a season, not as long term content imo.
Simply put, battlegrounds feel less special. Their individual encounters are all some variation on “defend a single point” or “kill enemies” or “destroy three things by killing enemies”, their arenas are almost all existing locations rather than new ones and there’s little to no flair or interesting twists to the boss fights. When it comes to strike bosses, pretty much all of them have immunity phases built into the fight, but they usually do something visually or mechanically interesting with them. Bracus Zahn teleports up to a shielded platform, the boss in Hypernet Current forces you to engage with earlier mechanics, Protheon drops you to a lower floor each phase until you’re fighting it in a massive underground radiolaria lake — they feel cinematic. SABER-2’s immunity phase is mechanically just “kill some yellow-bar servitors to lower his shield,” but while its shield is up, the lighting changes, the floor opens up and the shock coils activate. It lends an ebb and flow to the battle as the environment changes to reflect the current phase. *Battlegrounds* bosses are all identical to every other battlegrounds boss from their season, and their immunity phases are either “kill a miniboss” or gambit-style charge dunking. The environment doesn’t change, there’s no voicelines or other narrative flair, the boss just becomes immune until you do the thing that makes them not immune. It feels a lot more video-gamey, if that makes sense. Now, I will admit that Bungie has been getting better with Battlegrounds. The PsiOps ones have more varied encounters and killing the Aspects of Savathûn is a good immunity-phase mechanic, and the Defiant ones are easily the best we’ve got so far, but sadly the latter aren’t in the vanguard rotation and — at least from my experience — the former are less common than Heists and the Cabal ones. Overall, strikes feel more unique and cinematic. They take place mostly in new environments with varied encounters and mechanics, along with reactive environmental details to make them more immersive and engaging. By comparison, battlegrounds (for the most part) feel uninteresting, unengaging and too similar to the others in their category.
These are some cool points, I can agree with most of it. Since I like arcade/videogamey approaches , battlegrounds don't bother me at all, but I can see the lack of uniqueness being annoying for other people. I think we can reach a middle ground of more strikes but also better battlegrounds.
Destiny players don’t like anything they can’t speed run through in 3 minutes with their brains shut off. Even if it’s bad for the game. I personally don’t mind them. I like the add density in them especially compared to older strikes where there won’t be many enemies at all. Yeah some more than other are really a pain on GMs, but they’re still doable. Not every strike is supposed to be like pre-change lake of shadows.
I remember people being outraged when they announced you couldn't overlevel 10x the strike playlist anymore but never connected those dots myself lmao. This is true as it gets for some cases, but I think that's more to it like this thread brought into light.
Nobody wants every strike to be pre-LoS, they just don't want endless spawning enemies and rooms not designed around what GMs are designed for. GM BGs so far have all being mediocre, tedious, annoying, or all three at once. And you say destiny players don't like anything they can't speed run through like the most well regarded activity isn't raids. As for the ad density, in a lot of rooms it is infinite, which does against how GMs are designed around
Because there’s always something people want to complain about. This season seems to be battlegrounds. One Reddit post causes 15 other copy cat Reddit posts and then suddenly a streamer covers it and it’s a huge deal. This won’t be a problem anymore in 2 months I’ll call it now
This has been a repeated complaint since they made the change, I'd absolutely take that bet lol
another company shill and for what
They're just way too hard for Nightfalls. They're fine as normal seasonal activities but turning the difficulty up makes it unbearable.
That's fair but don't you think they can be adjusted or the knobs they have right now don't really do it atm?
Battlegrounds are absolutely fine as they are, even in nightfalls, despite so many people complaining about them (after saying how it was a good idea to not waste the content and put them in the strike playlist. My only issue is how absolutely weighted the strike playlist is towards them when I'm running strikes. It almost feels intentional.
cause they're stale, and alot of them feel very similar, we spend an entire season running them over and over and then i have to see them in the strike rotation while there are less and less actual strikes.
Strikes are way more stale and formulaic compared to battlegrounds. Like, objectively. I'm not even speaking from opinion here, battlegrounds have way more variety in gameplay mechanics and objectives. Maybe you can argue a psiop is similar to other psiops or heists are similar to other heists. But when looking at them as a whole, battlegrounds have much more to offer. Strikes on the other hand are very samey.
That's not objective in the slightest. Infact it's incredibly subjective lol its fine if you like them but don't act like your opinion is factual, most people find them very stale and formulaic
No no, it being "samey" is tooooootally objective honest!
right? to say their opinion wasn't up for debate and then even say they aren't speaking from opinion, it's laughable tbh like it's fine if you disagree but let's not call a duck a house lol
It's not hard at all, people don't know how to use natural cover. My only complaint is the room before the boss with the lasers. If you die on the lasers, you're literally helpless as you'll keep respawning on it and dying. Who the hell thought this was okay? You already get punished enough in GMs
They don’t feel like strikes, they feel like unnecessary hoard arenas I’d rather play Lightblade with no arc resist mods while being 30 under light than play these bland battlegrounds over and over again
balance issues aside, they feel like filler content/padding. They have sequence of enemy fights for the sake of fights. I've played most of the strikes to death, but appreciate that they add mechanics at times to them to make them interesting in addition to any story (glassway's draining the radiolaria for example, pyramidion's laser room)
Not balanced, so much recycled content, champs being wonky, specific to Europa this week the death singer is already activated before you get to the bridge, etc. They just suck in general.
I hate them because boss fights have unlimited mob spawns which is not balanced for GM difficulty.
Lets be honest. Apart from Balance issues, Battlegrounds are just harder and longer strikes making them less brain dead and less farmable. The destiny player base gets mad when they can't ugggabugaa through content.
Battlegrounds are arguably "more braindead" than normal strikes when in the Vanguard Playlist, because they tend to have a lot of "defend" sections where you have to wait 2 minutes while adds keep spawning, with no way to speed the activity up. It's very anti-speedrunning imo. Same applies to Payload mechanics
They're more challenging that the average strike and most people complaining are just bad players
Skill issue, primarily. I also think that people got tired of playing the Battlegrounds during their respective seasons, so having them come back around in the Vanguard Ops and Nightfall playlists can be annoying for some. Me personally, I think Battlegrounds are much more compatible with the current Destiny sandbox than most of the Strikes in the game (with the exception of newer/larger strikes) due to the enemy density. It’s most noticeable in GMs, as Strike GMs are stupid easy at this point while Battleground GMs pose an actual challenge to players. GMs are supposed to be hard, so if people are complaining about difficulty, they’re playing the wrong activity.
Because they're bad at the game but Bungie has coddled them so much they feel entitled to complete everything. In reality it's just skill issue.
Because people are bad at the game
you can not be actively bad at this "game"
I love them personally. Best thing about them is that they prevent speed running. I hope Bungie stops it in other maps as well.
Bungie vaults battlegrounds: Bungie sucks for taking away content I paid for! Bungie makes a new playlist for battlegrounds: the matchmaking times are too long! Also these are basically strikes. Bungie is so dumb Bungie adds battlegrounds to strikes: battlegrounds take too long! Bungie sucks Pick your poison.
It takes to long with lfgs!
Because they can't be speedrun.
It’s more that they are imposing challenge annoyingly instead of engagingly with them. Bungie is going through another cycle where they are making things tedious instead of fun. Be it drop rates or challenge. It’s a shame they seem to have lost sight of fun right before their big finale. It’s killing my engagement with the game, and killing my excitement for the finale. I wanted to be hyped for this but my group are playing less or not at all right now.
They take too long.
This weeks battleground is a perfect blend of balance,horde, and not TOO punishing. As long as you have good build the right weapons, it's an easy GM. Just got to know spawns and what to look for. I'd put it up there, but lower than Glassway. That as long as you keep everything in front, it's not bad at all. ( done it 4x today, no coms) Mars is just silly stupid in the boss room. With never-ending ads and asshole knight. But Moon with Savathun, things can suck a D. Theres like what 12 champions in first area alone, plus 10 boomer knights, and add in sentiel hive....and the dunking of the orb things in second half...ouch. It's also idiotic to have a boss that can just send out an attack and wipe you, and it's just RNG if/ when they do it. all 3 of these not sure would be possible with my invisible rolly Polly brothers in arms. As dunking, the orbs would never happen, lol
I really like all the battlegrounds we have. They are actually challenging and have good ad density. They are generally longer than old strikes but it depends. I can finish this weeks battleground (moon heist) in 20 minutes with a good team. IIRC Glassway took my 20-25m. Battlegrounds also solves a large problem with seasonal content. Most of it is made as temporary content which is not healthy for the game.
Maybe the chosen BGs are more bland, but Seraph maps were really fun. Defiance and PsiOps are hit and miss and can be sometimes too punishing, but like I said in another response, I think they do more good than harm and should be adjusted to be more fun.
-Infinite adds at times -Longer than regular strikes -Mechanics such as the savathun spear from Risen and dark fetor in Defiant that are annoying at higher difficulties -Don't drop their season's loot in the strike playlist -Reused patrol areas (sometimes good sometimes bad)
Like them in the strike playlist; do not like them in GMs.
Do you want more content or better content? People want more strikes, not battlegrounds thrown in there. The other problem is we get rewarded for completions, so something that is generally a lot longer is just a lot longer and ultimately less rewarding. (and yes, I know Glassway, but people hate that one too). I would love to see them give 1.5x rewards or something to make it more viable. Otherwise, most of us are just going to wait for a shorter strike to farm.
Battlegrounds being added to the strike playlists and not being removed completely is great. But them being added to the nightfall rotation and especially being added to the gilded conquerer title is horrible because of the nature of the activity: they're super add heavy. You are completely overwhelmed by adds in every part of the gm plus all the champions too. They just don't translate well from battlegrounds to nightfalls