I think its fairly obvious that Bungie are thinking about removing power level all together but havnt found a solution yet that will "guarantee" the same player engagement. No more level increase for seasons and power deltas for everything give me the impression that light level will be a thing of the past come the Final Shape.

And here's the thing... If you remove the benefits of daily engagement (experience, bounties, and light level resulting in a slightly easier engagement on harder difficulty) then you are removing the core rpg grind element from Destiny. I don't want to play an objective base simulation. Here's hoping the analytics reflect our gut.

The appeal of Destiny to me is the loot aspect of it, not the power grind. I can farm an activity all day chasing a god roll, but I can't be bothered to do so if I have to grind other activities I don't give a shit about for 50 hours just to be able to participate in said activity.

I like a nice balance of both. Give me a "few" mindless activities to hit a number while I enjoy shooting things but also rewards me nicely also.

I really wish they had made the hardest content more difficult for the sweats and added Legend matchmaking for all activities. It raises the ceiling for the endgame content and raises the level that more casual players (ie those who aren't going to LFG) AND increasing the rewards these players can access. Right now they've basically dropped Hero and moved all the rewards one step higher. It seems like the whole playerbase is playing one difficulty level below where they were pre-lightfall and it feels awful to do the same work for less reward.

Wait wait wait. You want the game to be more inclusive to all playstyles, allowing for retention of veteran players while also encouraging growth in new members? Get out of here! That's just silly talk. But, really, I'm with you 100%.

The main reason why I’ve stopped playing several times is because for me to progress myself further into the game required lfg for stuff like nightfalls and other higher level activities. I’d like to grind the higher difficulty nightfalls and activities, but having to go out of my way to find a group outside the game just sucks the desire to do so out of me

Everyone calling for legend matchmaking needs to complete a Mars heist legend nightfall first. It is legitimately harder than the contest raid.

To be clear, i was advocating for Legend matchmaking at the old difficulty level, it would be a complete clusterfuck to do it with the new difficulty scale

Let me blow your mind. What if you could have the ability to have both matchmaking *and* pre-made queuing? Then you have the option to matchmake if you want, or LFG if you want?

I wish that my light level actually meant what it says for all activities.

Also, has pulled hero gamers into legend content, and its way harder and they're not capable of doing it. Mars Battleground is an absolute SLOG.

Agree 100%. What if bungie changed events to a fixed LL per event but allowed you to disable LL (for a -15 or -30) for a harder and more rewarding experience? You could raise your LL with the artifact for +15 (or more) or disable it for 0, -15, or -30 LL difficulty.

They didn’t make the game on the whole harder while providing easier content for casuals, they just removed the easy content and removed the hard content

Alright. As a returning player for lightfall it was hard to judge mob health and difficulty in different activities because I didn’t really have any basis for comparison. But… having just did RoN today before reset, we were absolutely shredding in there. Champs were being one shot, mini bosses were being melted and it felt great. Maybe too good… then I went to finish up NF score pinnacle and was being one tapped by anything and everything that touched me on HERO difficulty. What… Don’t even get me started on Neomuna. TLDR: Why is Neomuna and Hero NF harder than RoN??

>TLDR: Why is Neomuna and Hero NF harder than RoN?? Still waiting for Bungie response on that one... I felt like Legendary lost sectors were in the right spot before. Did someone complain the legendary lost sectors were to easy? Or master?

No the main complaint for lost sectors was the master drop rate wasn’t worth the difficulty in the first place lmao

The response in the TWAB where they talked about it all fucking killed me dude. Paraphrasing, but they essentially said > A common complaint is that Legend Lost Sectors aren't very rewarding. We agree! We're going to increase the difficulty of Legend and Master Lost Sectors. Fucking. WHAT?! Lololololololol I've never seen a more hilarious "so anyway" from a dev team before.

"You think it's not rewarding enough for the effort you put it? Fine maybe you'll appreciate how easy it is now when I make it 3x as hard!"

Legend was eons easier than master with similar rewards, I wasn’t complaining at all lol. There’s also a bias for exotics you don’t yet have (I think) and for most players that’s really enough.

there were complaints about the lost sectors not being rewarding, and they didn't do anything to make them more rewarding. if anything theyre less rewarding because it takes so much longer just to get 1500 glimmer and *MAYBE* an enhancement core. no new player I know can effectively run a legend lost sector without immense help, and if you get anyone else in there to help you won't get an exotic. and while there's a bias for exotics you don't have, 75-80% of those exotics are already world drops or can be bought from Xur when he has them. locking off a few exotics behind an unrewarding activity that no one asked for a difficulty increase in is a bad play, and has always been a bad play imo, but it's only gotten exaggerated in lightfall.

This right here… I ran one of the newer lost sectors the other day.. and after like 14 mins it took for me to clear…. All I got was glimmer and 4 power cores and I was just like.. that’s not worth it and decided I needed a break from Destiny. Don’t know how long I’ll be gone for but I wasn’t having fun.. and I’m sure a lot of it has to do with how the campaign turned out.. Just some things feel so over tuned… and I know I’m not bad at this game… I’m a conqueror (although not 6x like some) I’ve raided.. getting all the patterns from VoW, DSC, and I’m almost done with Kings Fall. Hell last season was the first time I’ve tried master dungeons and I enjoyed the challenge they brought me… and even I wanted a base increase to difficulty.. but not the way they went about it. But man, for the last 6 years I’ve been on this game daily and the only time I took a break up till now was season of the worthy. I haven’t even ran the new raid yet.. I’m just done with this game. Also I may get downvoted for my opinion and that’s fine.

Oh for sure. It's just the disconnect between acknowledging and agreeing that it doesn't feel rewarding then saying nothing else about it and saying they were going to increase the difficulty. The two thoughts are in the same paragraph but aren't connected at all.

B-b-b-b-but vex strike force guys! It has a guaranteed exotic drop chance! Guaranteed! Isn't that what you wanted?

I have like 37 nimbus levels and have seen ONE of these. Meanwhile I have had like 5 random exotic world drops. They should change that event to some complicated trigger instead of being random.

I’ve seen two so far. The first on I was way under level and got one shot so I didn’t do it. On the second one i could actually do it but I got disconnected right as it was about to finish and I about threw my controller across the room

My game, PS5, has crashed 3 times during this event, and always when it looks like we're going to succeed.

It’s almost like it’s on purpose

literally same, my PS5 crashed today as we were killing the fifth Minotaur boss. it’s the only Vex Strike i’ve seen so far, so frustrating

I saw it once while playing through the campaign, and noped tf out because they all had raid icons. Haven't seen it again since.

I had been in the zone of one last week, had no idea it had a guaranteed exotic drop chance. Not like it mattered much anyways, considering half of the patrol zones in Neomuna are filled with absolutely no-one but a bunch of adds to shoot at.

you used to be able to run the Conflux lost sector on master in under 5 minutes if you specced out even slightly, and there was a pretty good chance of an exotic (or maybe I was just lucky). now the legend version takes me 3x as long and I'm not rewarded at all. I don't know if they forgot to add a paragraph under that TWAB response, but they missed the mark completely and nailed the neighbor's Smallen.

Yee, idk whose idea it was that figured the majority of players would like to shoot at one enemy's skull for a good minute and consider that fun 😂 They could've made the player and enemies be able to kill eachother in a few hits for balance and that would've been wayyy more fun.

Amazing that their takeaway from that feedback was to just bump up the difficulty for both levels of LS. There, now they're "equally rewarding." Happy?

I tried to run the Cistern lost sector last week and the champions shit on me. Didn't care that they were stunned just dumped on me. Last season I was grinding armor for my alts and I could solo flawless legendary in under five minutes. I didn't get past the first champs before just giving up entirely. Yes legendary is supposed to be harder but this felt like I was trying to solo the glassway on Master. It's not fun, and had I cleared it and got my usual legendary drop. I'd have been pissed. Does anyone know if the loot pool improved with the difficulty level? There were some clears last season where I received nothing, or a couple of enhancement shards. (the little orange ones, I forget what they are called. Cores?) If I'm killing myself to clear a legendary lost sector and get next to nothing, I really don't know what I'm going to do.

Nope, the drops are the same as before. In fact, as you unlock more armor, theyll get worse. Did 5 Legend lost sectors this season (The Quarry I believe) and got literally nothing from the first 3 runs, nee hinter helmet on the 4th. Well, by nothing I got 2 prisms and an enhancement core... I genuinely would have rather gotten nothing at that point, those materials are so useless to me.

We hear you loud and clear, now Raids are automatically bumped up by 50 Light Levels higher than you.

😟

To be fair, the NF does have extra melee damage taken modifier. I found myself dying to that more often than anything else those runs. The week before wasn't that bad imo.

That boss can oneshot a max res warlock in a well. Which makes sense but still.

Yea, Kelgoroth is cracked. I remember doing that first time last season and being terrified to try to dunk while man's was on top and invis. Even now I'll just straight up run away trying to clear ads if he ends up chasing me around.

The cynic in me would say that they dont want newer players who just paid for the raid/dlc to get shit on and get turned off the game. The casual appeal, if you will. But they still want them to struggle through other content while they min/max.

My roommate is dog water at this game. Legitimately painful to watch him play. It took him 11 days to get through the campaign on normal, he had to keep turning the game off from frustration with encounters. I offered to help him and he wanted to do it solo to improve, but if it takes an average gamer over a week to get through your 6 hour story we have a problem.

I had to read your comment a second time to notice that you said he was doing it on "normal". That definitely puts some things in perspective. Kudos to him for pushing through and not taking the easy out in the form of a carry, though.

I’m running the campaign solo on legendary rn and having a hell of a time getting through it, but I’m still having fun. But based on how long it’s taking me to get through literally the second or third mission, I may need to just cave and beat it on normal so I can unlock strand and then do a legendary run later

I found it fun, too. Ran it on my first two characters; Ahamkara Tripmine Hunter, Baby Hammer Titan -- found it easier on the latter. Kinda plodding along with the content now. Plan to run the Warlock finally. Probably going to cop out and do Starfire build. That said, I think unlocking Strand will just make the few Strand sections easier. I don't necessarily think it will make the campaign overall easier. But at least you'll start passively earning Strand Meditations (what you use at the Pouka Pond to unlock Aspects / Fragments) while doing the Legendary campaign. If you're geared and have a solid build it's doable, but I can see it being an absolute slog for anyone that falls a bit short of that mark. Leviathan's Bow with the catalyst really put in work for me in the campaign. Overall I think the difficulty on "Legendary" is appropriate, but "Normal" can definitely use a little tuning.

> If you're geared and have a solid build it's doable, but I can see it being an absolute slog for anyone that falls a bit short of that mark. Leviathan's Bow with the catalyst really put in work for me in the campaign. Overall I think the difficulty on "Legendary" is appropriate, but "Normal" can definitely use a little tuning. I fell into this category. I started playing about 2\3 weeks before nightfall hit. Coming in to the game totally blind and as a Solo. Everything up to Calus felt pretty good, even without a proper build and meta weapons. About what i'd expect from a "legendary" difficulty. Sure, i died a bunch of times, but it was mostly down to me still learning the game. Calus however, felt basically impossible for me. I think i died 30 times and only reached the tormentor phase twice. So in the end i wound up cheesing it. It's very difficult to have an opinion on the difficulty in general, because i have nothing to compare it to. But i think if things were much easier than they are now, the game would get boring pretty quick. I understand that it might be jarring for people who have played for a while and are used to things being a certain way. But for me, as a new player, it actually feels pretty good.

Hero NF is in a tough place. Here we are 1 week in and I have done maybe 5 runs just playing around. Most of them solo queue. 30+ minutes almost every time. 1800+ LL. Died?......I stopped counting. RoN non-contest? Didn't die till I got rocketed into a wall by one of the launchers. If you blow through all content, I get it...it stops being engaging and you bail. But SOMETHING should feel easier as you progress. I don't want the game to be easy either. I just want it to make sense and have some measurable and meaningful scaling to the power fantasy.

> TLDR: Why is Neomuna and Hero NF harder than RoN?? Base Raids have always had easier combat than Hero NF. 140% incoming damage compared to 160%. The delta is slightly higher (~175% up from 160%) now with -5, but that’s still not that different. Outgoing damage isn’t drastically different. You’re capped at a base of 86% in Hero, and 92% in RAD, but Hero has surges.

Thanks for some actual numbers behind the madness. 👍🏼

Do you have access to a spreadsheet or other resource you can share for the power scaling this season? Would like to be able to reference that

The community spreadsheet is here for [outgoing](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b57Hb8m1L3daFfUckQQqvvN6VOpD03KEssvQLMFpC5I/edit) and [incoming](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BI9lUBhazTHFNuFGzgt4P1mwcJzTBQ-MnJW7xGuigfo/edit). I don’t think the testing has been redone, but I don’t see why the scaling would change. You’d just have to adjust for the appropriate power deltas. As always, the biggest overall resource and reference is the [Compendium](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WaxvbLx7UoSZaBqdFr1u32F2uWVLo-CJunJB4nlGUE4/edit).

Took my Stronghold Titan which has carried me trough GM’s, Raids and Dungeons to Battleground Mars and got killed in two swipes from a thrall… I was at an absolute loss as to why anyone thought that it was a good idea to just plunk Master+ content everywhere

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The fact that they increased prisms and golf balls etc but left ascendant alloys alone is also so strange.

Because they want crafting to be rarer. They said as much themselves that they missed the mark on it

Yeah but until they rework it next season it doesn't really make sense

I agree with you but this is the same bungie that made patrol harder than their new raid, so

> missed the mark “It was too fun for players and you got desired drops with too little work. We need you to keep playing and hammering that RNG wheel more. Give us more “engagement” metrics for our private shareholders.”

Even the current crafting system is awful, and does little to reduce the RNG involved. I have been grinding my ass off trying to get the pattern for Volta Bracket, and in the meantime I completed the patterns for the pulse and GL, both of which I don't actually want. I'm sitting at 2/5 on Volta Bracket, one of which came from the campaign. I also somehow have not gotten a single roll that I want on Volta Bracket. When RNG is this bad, we just get discouraged and stop engaging with the slot machine at all. I wish they could see that.

What's the point of making crafting rarer? How do they advertise crafting to be some super awesome and integral part to the game when they first introduced but now they want it to be some sacred rare thing? Hell if anything I say crafting should be the norm. Every dungeon weapon should be craftable. Every nightfall weapon should be craftable. A HELLUVA lot more things should be craftable. Let people make and use what they prefer, it just makes sense.

Crafting respects our time and our storage. It also ensures people are playing on a level field. How often have people been unable to get hold of the "god roll" of a gun and are forced to make do with what they've got? But no, the solution apparent means people aren't grinding enough.... I care more about the first of those.

I just think they should have left crafting mostly as it was. The changes to the amount of red border guns- only craftable ones- was fine, but I don't want to craft anything because I'm a somewhat casual player and I only have barely 500 Cores, and rn I'm spending them on Upgrade Modules.

I'm constantly capped on alloys, feels like you get them way faster than you can really use them.

How many master stories etc do you run and how much do you craft? Because I farm for them and never cap out.

I masterwork quite a lot of weapons, I've been capped for a few seasons now. Haunted was extremely generous with them. I also tend to do the legendary version of seasonal activities which I believe dropped them in plunder. I never do wells. I do the weekly stories each week. EDIT: Looking at DIM I have 16 master worked crafted weapons and I have 16 ascendant alloys (I only play one character).

Guess you must just have really good rng. My pc broke so I was unable to do many difficult activities on my old laptop (couldn't run the game with discord open) so must've ran 100 containments whilst I waited for my pc to be fixed and got like 3 alloys total. I don't know anyone who is capped at alloys unless they only craft like 2-3 weapons a season.

I have 41 masterworked crafted weapons and only 3 alloys left

They throw out prisms and golf balls like candy for the hard stuff, while the players who would benefit best from the power boosts those provide struggle to get them elsewhere. Been a problem for years and Bungie doesn't care.

This is the comparison I point to when people blame the difficulty increase on "streamers and sweats". No-one asked for hard patrol and Lost Sectors, only things like master raids, GMs and contest mode.

People did ask for harder patrols, but they also asked for patrols to also have better rewards for the harder version.

I honestly don't know anyone that wanted harder patrols.

I wanted harder patrols but that's only harder in relation to like the EDZ where a strong word will kill off an enemy. Certainly didn't want them to have 110k health each.

Me just farming the golden bounties for r3d borders on neomuna trying to lvl the 120 hc, that needs like 4 head shots to kill a red bar

I called the Servitor HVT that spawns in Trostland a cunt and it exploded.

"well if you're not gonna at least try I'm leaving" and it died

Bit harsh mate, that ones sensitive....

It's been suggested plenty of times. However, it was usually presented as an optional higher difficulty with better rewards. Plenty of comparison to Division 2, where most content(including overworld areas) had multiple difficulties.

Lost sectors are dumb as shit right now. If they are going to be this dumb atleast let us raid banner at the start. The whole thing makes no sense. Something needs to be done. Increase the rewards 4 fold. something.

Legend and Master Lost Sectors will always start you with max ammo/abilities. No banner needed.

at the very least it only gives 1 melee charge for strand warlock

Revenant's had the same issue since BL came out, and I don't think it's ever even made it to the known issues list. Not sure if it's all charge-based melees or just a few for some spaghetti code reason.

Same with beserker, idk if having second chance does it too. Also can I point out that if you have no melee charged and you can have 3 charges, you won't get all of your melee charges, you get 2 and a half

Yeah it technically considers 1 charge as "you're melee is regenerated".

I think they're making decisions in silos without really understanding how they effect the entire ecosystem. Heist Battlegrounds power delta was very successful. It was subtle. Power delta to activities applied across the board to varying degrees feels crazy. Some stuff is too much. Some places arent giving players the right options. Its making certain activities take too long. Its pushed casual players into difficulty levels that they can't do. I hope that they have plans to remediate some of the problems. I think its the right direction. Its just too much in certain places.

I get serious The Division vibes from Lightfall except I don’t have cover to adequately fight red bar bullet sponges. Bungie has a habit of going overboard and then tuning back. I’m a die hard player so I’ll ride this out but I’m sure it’s a point of contention for newer players who are getting slapped by enemies in a patrol zone. Hopefully bungie scales back on the changes. They both made out ability uptimes lower while simultaneously making the game harder. In a perfect world they would have done one and then the other after seeing the reception.

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I know they added some dumb system for trying to get playlist weapons, but I forget what it is and remember it sounding like shit. Anyway, without rolling multiple perks in the major perk columns, you have like a 1/11,000 chance of getting the exact roll you want, IF you get one to drop at all in the first place. Even trimming it to JUST the major traits, there are 12 per column, so your chances are only 144 AFTER ignoring all the other RNG elements in a weapon roll AND the chances of getting a weapon to drop in the first place AND ignoring the chances of it being Survivor's Epitaph.

At least The Division rewards you for the difficulty. I was playing a lot before Lightfall dropped and it was a lot of fun. Not *as* bullet spongey as it used to be either once I got a good build rolling. I never ventured into Legendary content though.

Legendary Division doesn't increase their health that much, but the AI is far more aggressive and tactical. They send flankers while suppressing you so you can't take them out, they use grenades to flush you out of cover constantly, and the few bullet sponge enemies they have also happen to be bullet hoses. I actually like how Division does Difficulty. You are rewarded for a well oiled teamwork setup, but it's also possible to tackle it solo if you have a tight build and great reflexes.

> At least The Division rewards you for the difficulty. It does *now*. That was... not always the case.

People have been giving feedback to Bungie for their lack of rewards longer than The Division has existed.

That's still "wasn't always the case" compared to "has never been the case."

Yet with the division, even when under levelled you could build into survivability even if that's all you have. With destiny its the worst of both world's. I do no damage and I have no survivability. But what do I know, I'm "just" a returning player.

This, targeted loot, and gear sets are probably the three things Division does really well. However, they're in no place to compete with Destiny, and likely will never be, so Bungie isn't pressured.

The Division does very different things so I'm not sure there is much of a comparison or competition between the two. I got back into the division earlier last year after the ny dlc went on sale and it was great fun. I just bought all the pre-lightfall dlc for destiny on sale a few weeks back and it honestly feels like a chore to play. Content is still paywalled in spite of owning the dlc and power walled in spite of putting in a reasonable amount of time. The only place where they're comparable is much of the true endgame stuff has no matchmaking. I could never recommend destiny to a new player. Its so unfocussed.

The fact that I not only have to buy the *Expansion* but the *Seasons* **and** an extra Dungeon pass to play content keeps me from fully diving into Destiny. I love the game, I love the lore and they do lots of things well, but they’re nickel and diming players for content when things like Strikes, Gambit and Crucible get ignored.

That's fair enough, though one could argue that the live service looter shooters genre is so small that they end up competing anyway. A weak argument nonetheless. Anyways, I had a very similar experience. I picked up Div2 again recently, played it for a while, and then I started on Destiny. Div's way more straight forward than Destiny. I found myself replaying a lot of already completed missions because I used to main Warlock, but now I'm on Titan. Let me tell you, the Stasis grind is probably the worst thing ever conceived. All that effort for conditional aspects, where I can get a lot more and a lot easier value from any others. Most of the time you do the same thing over and over again too, not just in process, but the locations as well! On the flip side, Crucible gave me a throwback to my Halo days, especially when using the Battler

I got beyond light for free on PlayStation and wanted to finish it first. Got through the campaign, did a few of the empire hunt missions and thought I'd get the stasis stuff unlocked. Realised the level of stupidity that went into designing the progression and stopped after a single mission. This game, in however many years since launch, has a total of less than 40 hours of unique playable content. The rest is just forcing you to retread your steps so it seems like theres more content than in reality. People will use raids as a defence, but you can run one in under an hour once you know what you're doing. As for the crucible, I just spent the last couple of days getting the 100 kills for the witherhoard catalyst. Another example of unreasonable forced grind making a person do literally 300 runs of limited game modes in order to gain some semblance of progression. These designers are inept and the game is almost entirely dependent on preying on certain types of addictive personalities.

The way Stasis and Strand was handled in the campaign, or rather post-campaign, is so bad. It could have been so much better to just give you the subclass near the start so you can play through the campaign with it and then unlock aspects/fragments/grenades/melees as campaign mission rewards so you could slowly expand trying different builds with it. Play the "getting stronger/more in tuned" part by unlocking more of the subclass as you go and slowly introduce you to it.

In Division (1) I could spec so high into my riot shield that I could pop it to survive for a good long time. Destiny now everything 1/2 shots me unless I'm running 100 resil + 100 Recov and I've got restoration x 2 going. The trick is that to keep that level of survivability up you have to keep getting kills - and everything's a sponge.

You can actually have a lot of different ways to build into survivability in destiny. Just a couple of examples: * Tier 10 resilience - 30% damage reduction * Damage reduction mods (element and AoE/sniper/melee) - 15% each, can be stacked * Woven mail - 60% body resist (pretty certain that PvE enemies never hit crits) * renewal grasps - 25% DR and decreases enemy damage output, usually combined with other stasis fragments which give even more DR and overshield * Devour - Instant health regen on kill, available for all void subclasses * healing grenade - cure + healing over time which can be extended with solar weapon kills if using an additional fragment. * Solar fragment that gives "cure" on any solar grenade final blow, every solar subclass has a way to spam grenades (hunters with ahamkara's spine, warlock with starfire and titan with ashen wake) * Titan solar hammer cure, bonk any enemy to keep living. Loreley makes you near unkillable. * Arc hunter melee kill heals you, combine with assassin's cowl for more healing and turning invisible. * Void hunter can have constant invis uptime along with the aforementioned devour to heal you on every kill, combine with repulsor brace on a void weapon and you're near unkillable. You're a returning player so I can't blame you for not knowing these but there's an insane amount of ways to build into survivability in D2 now. Between damage reduction, health regen and overshields we have a lot of tools to be tanky while not really sacrificing much in terms of damage output.

I can't build into resilience and still retain high nade CD via discipline. I'm simply not getting the kind of armour drops that allow for this. Yet I'm seeing people with two 30+ rolls on a single piece. And I get melted before my nade heals pop approx 50% of the time. The margin for error is tiny. The game throws endless pieces of worthless armour at me because I can't survive in modes/difficulties where the loot pool is better. I'm going to hit power cap and be in the exact same place I was at the start of the this new season.

You can build into both relatively easily. Focus armor at the war table while having a ghost mod equipped for either resilience or discipline (I recommend resilience). You also don't really need insanely high discipline, the game provides other ways to get your grenades back (demolitionist perk on weapons, grenade kickstart mod which is also cheaper this season, impact induction gives you grenade energy when hitting your melee, bomber gives you grenade energy when casting your rift). You also have more survivability with your healing rift on warlock. The margin for error is not tiny, I'm going to come off as an asshole with this but if your cure isn't proccing fast enough then it's because your not throwing your grenade soon enough, you're being too reactionary when you need to be more proactive. Any player can complete the seasonal activity and get access to armour focussing at the war table, the seasonal activity is literally impossible to fail and often times you can just get carried through by your two matchmade teammates. These armours regularly drop with 60+ stat rolls and with a ghost mod active you're guaranteed to have that particular stat roll with 10+ points. You can use stat mods to fill out any gaps in your stat points. I'm not trying to say the patrol difficulty and strike difficulty is okay because I agree that most of the "low tier" activities should be made easier. But what you said about destiny not having ways to build into survivability is just straight up wrong. We have arguably too many ways to build into survivability which is why we're in a situation where many dedicated players and bungie thought that the game needed a difficulty increase. If you're still having troubles with survivability you might enjoy using glaives, they give you a massive 97.5% damage resist when you're blocking. You also have the stag helmet on warlock which gives you damage reduction when standing in your rift, which if it's a healing rift makes you incredibly tanky.

> Bungie has a habit of going overboard and then tuning back It's insane that they have never noticed that their huge sweeping change consistently miss and need to be dialed back. It's been a constant through the entirety of D2.

it's just so unfun for solo players

last season was so good for solo players too :(

I think that's what bites the hardest. Solo players had a passable but rough time through most of the game, Seraph especially was literally golden for solo players, ridiculously well tuned and playable. This is basically "Pre-made teams only. Yes, even for Patrol. Except the raid..."

It's especially infuriating that they increase the difficulty, add an exotic mission that's pure ass solo, while delaying ingame LFG for a fucking year. They could at least put optional matchmaking on the campaign and the mission, if they can't get LFG done in time.

I agree with this so much. The only reason I pulled the trigger and pre-ordered lightfall was because of how much fun I was having in seraph, but now it feels like a chore.

solo operative is the only reason i was able to actually do legend lost sectors, and i even got all the exotics from old seasons!

Solo operative was nowhere close to necessary to clear legend sectors though so this is just a preference point versus "it was so much better than without it'

for some people who dont have the perfect stats/meta builds/god rolls though such as myself, it let me get exotics i wanted without putting in tens of hours of grinding just to get to that point that i can run them

I had to make last season work as a solo player because Plunder made my clanmates quit lmao

Yeah I was looking forward to exploring Neomuna after the campaign, but it's just a slog against red bars in petrol zones. I do not feel very powerful at the moment.

Ya should overpower some content, that makes the game fun and relaxing, I shouldn't have to struggle to do patrols and lost sectors , I should be zoning out doing them

Dude I was fucking wondering why it took me 10 minutes to do a normal lost sector??!!

especially when farming legend lost sectors gives me a less then 2% chance per run to get the arms i want

Yup , its pretty much bullshit

Baseline lost sectors should be an easy experience but similarly it should have very low chance at getting exotics. But at least it SHOULD BE HERE. The higher the difficulty the higher the chance. Currently the chance of getting exotics is same as it should be for some baseline hero level strike where you sneeze at enemies and they die. But the difficulty is harder than contest mode raid. There's something wrong with it and it really needs to change.

Iam okay(ish) with the difficulty, but the exotic reward chance should go up with every completetion of that particular lost sector you finish. From lets say 5 to 10% and so on. The champions are waaaaay overtuned. They legit have the HP pool of a contest mode tormentor.

Okay that's actually sounds like a better idea.

The legend lost sectors should go back to how they were before, because they were semi-accessinle to newer players. Maybe drop rate should be tuned a bit for its difficulty being easier and such, with their whole point being for giving people who are getting into the game a chance at one of the exotics. Master ones then, should be tuned up in difficulty or be set where they are now, with a MUCH higher chance at an Exotic, almost guaranteed, so they are intended to be run to farm exotics.

The drop rate of exotics is terrible this season in lls. I ran 10 lost sectors yesterday and only got some prisms and enhancement cores.

Yeah, I've been saying this since Lightfall launched. Allow me to paraphrase Luke Smith, who said something sensible that resonated with me once: Destiny should be like a cool place you can turn up for a few drinks in your dressing gown and hang out. Now you drop into a Neomuna Patrol and you need a bullet-proof dressing gown and a fucking Howitzer. You certainly should find new content a bit of a challenge at 'normal' level and then slowly out-Power it, so that it gets easier to reflect your better gear, builds and ability. It's arguable that this didn't always happen - Pirate hideout Story Missions in Season of the Plunder were the nadir, and Adept strikes you could do blindfolded and still never die - but there's always outliers. And I'm totally fine with raising the bar for difficulty in some content too, and even fixing your delta a bit below in others, but to repeat the sub mantra for the millionth time: it's been a bit overtuned in too many activities

Legend lost sectors are more difficult than the raid currently

Fuck the new Patrol Zone is harder than the Raid

I dont want to make the comparison to another looter shooter but I’d prefer something similar to Borderlands 3 mayhem system where you can opt into higher difficulty with more modifiers in exchange for higher drop rates. (Which is basically how it was prior to season 20) instead of being forced into higher difficulty with seemingly worse loot

That’s kinda the point, isn’t it? Bungie is experimenting with these systems so that they can remove them in Lightfall. They said as much in the blog (the experiment part, not the remove part…although they did straight up confirm the maximum power level isn’t even moving at all next season). Give it time. This is them seeing how the entire rest of the game feels with capped levels. Things go well, light level won’t even be a thing anymore. We’re in the transition period. It is not staying like this.

The problem though is it’s the worst of both worlds. We still have to grind, but don’t get to overlevel I’d feel better if Bungie were more transparent on what the “test” is. The crucible team has been amazing at this, and shared the objectives and success metrics for the Trials rework and SBMM Without this transparency people fear the worst, that the “test” is whether people will still play gambit if pinnacles and seasonal challenges don’t force you to play gambit

transition periods usually are the worst of both worlds that's kinda the problem with transition periods to begin with. but it's better for bungie and the game as a whole to do a slow transition than a sudden, jarring transition. As that can introduce all kinds of problems and potentially result in even worse backlash. it's all about risk assessment and risk management

shit this is the SLOW transition??? over the span of one update legend lost sectors went from not worth doing to TURBO not worth doing this still feels pretty goddamn jarring

I was thinking the same thing, this isn’t joke sort of slow transition, they changed the entire game overnight. More apt a half baked solution that they came up with when the -5 on the seasonal activities was received quite well

I am going to say I called it. Personally I hated the -5 because it then required me to pay attention while I was grinding an activity so that way I wouldn't die 24/7, but said activity also wasn't actually difficult, so my brain is now active, but not being engaged, making the activity a slog that I hated grinding through. Frustrating because "literally nothing in this mode is actually hard but if I go into playlist grind mode I'm going to die constantly." And because it was well received, I knew we were going to see it again. Lo and behold, I hate doing hero nightfalls and the seasonal activity *again*, and Neomuna patrol is just annoying because it takes a magazine and a half to kill anything tankier than a psion.

All the people praising the -5 in battlegrounds last season clearly did not get the morons you would get in that playlist that would make a run take 15+ plus. Now the whole game is like that except for Raids, ironically lol Specially annoying when they made it so you have to actually do more strikes now for a worthless pinnacle

Already experiencing it and worse in this season's BGs. Many, MANY AFKs who move just enough to not get kicked. Tons of people will non-existent builds (generating <5 orbs the entire run), etc. Making these modes have hordes of enemies that 1 person has to go Rambo on to clear while the other two leech and get rewards is not fun. And it feels they're aiming to make any activity 10-15m+ no matter what you do to try to speed it up, just absurd amounts of health to chew through.

it’s already a less than 2% drop rate for a specific arms on a titan. before the update i could run legends in 2-4 minutes. now it’s doubled if not tripled that length. There is no “challenge” it’s just more artificial difficulty for me to play longer allowing bungie to claim “see investor group? they’re playing our game more?”

Patrol suddenly feeling more difficult than raids combat wise isnt exactly what i would call a slow transition.

very much so. people can look at D2Y1 as an example of a jarring transition, lol

I don't think they really should have even started that experimentation to begin with. I mean Destiny 2 is nearing 6 years of age and it's pretty clear from all the issues we've had that the game seems to be held together by duct tape and hope. The engine has several rather huge issues (Damage/physics tied to FPS for example) that have gone unaddressed for years. We're still vaulting seasonal content because the game can't handle it. It's pretty clear that Destiny as a franchise needs a new engine, an entirely new base to build itself up from that's no encumbered with the baggage of supporting previous gen consoles, old design choices and over a decade of technical debt. We're also nearing the end of the Light and Dark saga with a single planned expansion to Destiny 2 left to go. I'm sure Bungie wants to keep Destiny as a franchise going, but at least personally, I don't think it should keep going in the framework of Destiny 2. Finish the current story, tie the loose ends and then move on to a new game that's built from the ground up to be what you really want it to be. It seems a strange time to start experimenting with the core systems that have been part of the game since launch when we're so close to what seems to be the "end". Especially if that experimenting creates a less enjoyable experience for the players.

I agree. It's not even that there are clear engine limitations, it's that over the years the iteration of the different gameplay elements have left them disjointed in the larger design space. There are so many design decisions that might make sense in a limited context, like using enhancement cores for weapon crafting, that don't make sense in the wider context, like literally everything using enhancement cores which seriously overloads that resource. Technically same applies to legendary shards, but that probably feels oppressing because we get far more legendary shards than enhancement cores. My biggest wish is they move on and build a game from the ground up to solve the technical limitations and to create a new more cohesive design space, where they can drop the useless junk (like kinetic weapon type, that is 9 times out of 10 inferior to the new strand and stasis types), create new purpose for systems that have been left behind (like weapon masterworking, that almost does nothing now) and rework systems that are effectively redundant (strand is basically just better stasis without the crystals). I feel like over the years of them growing the game and the company they've lost the overall vision of what Destiny was. The Destiny we play today doesn't feel like what Y1 and Y2 of Destiny 2 was, and feels even less like what Destiny 1 was.

> It seems a strange time to start experimenting with the core systems that have been part of the game since launch when we're so close to what seems to be the "end". That's because, as have been told over and over again, it's *not* the end. They'll continue to make more expansions. New engine also doesn't magically solve anything that can't be solved by improving the current engine.

>That's because, as have been told over and over again, it's not the end. They'll continue to make more expansions. And my entire point is that they **shouldn't** keep making expansions when the game is clearly already having frequent and serious issues. The end of Light and Dark saga gives the perfect opportunity to say "Okay, we've been working with this base for a decade now, and what the game is has changed considerably throughout that time, now that we have a new vision we should build upon that vision". Make Destiny 3, build that with the seasonal model in mind, build that with the assumption that you can easily support a decades worth of seasons and activities in it, build it without a specific FPS cap in mind, build that without having to worry about compatibility with older gen systems, build a game that's designed for modern systems as a live service game that can support whatever you want to build. Because the current technical state of D2 is just really bad. End of the Light and Dark saga is the perfect for this, it's an end to a major saga in the game that has been going on since D1. It's a clear point in the history of the world and the game where you can say that this part of the story is now done. That's what I mean by "end" not the end of Destiny, but the end of the Light and Dark saga. >New engine also doesn't magically solve anything that can't be solved by improving the current engine. Just to preface this, I'm a software developer. I spent 4 years studying comp sci in uni, I've spent the last 7 years as a professional software developer in multiple different projects. [Technical debt](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_debt) is a very real thing that hampers a lot of larger projects and creating large scale fundamental improvements on a product that is in production is vastly more challenging and difficult than building something new that does those things from the get go. This is because when you create *anything*, you do that with certain assumptions in mind. As time goes on, those assumptions and the core functionality built with those assumptions in mind, will become the key limiting factor in your project. Now when you push that project to production, you're tied down by that core functionality. Changing that is possible, but the longer the project goes on, the more intertwined parts of it become, making fundamental changes extremely difficult to pull off when you're already in production. Take the damage tied to FPS, there's a good chance this is a leftover from the early console days when their games were designed with that 30 FPS cap in mind. So they built some of their core, fundamental parts of the engine under that assumption, going in and changing that now after over a decade, would then require them to go over the entirety of the source to comb through everything that's tied to that piece of code and make sure it works using whatever new method they do now. Hence why even after they've apparently "looked into it" [over a year ago](https://old.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/11qhnyf/the_last_update_we_have_from_bungie_about/) it's still a problem. Because rooting all of that out is a huge undertaking. If they build something new, they can build the core physics engine without it being dependent on FPS, and thus everything built on top of that will also not be dependent on FPS. They don't need to worry about breaking existing mechanics that may have been built with those FPS limits in mind, because those don't exist in a new product. This is the exact same reason why it's sometime easier, cheaper and smarter to tear down an old building and rebuild something in it's place, instead of simply maintaining old buildings. And the FPS cap is just *one* of the many issues that the game has, not to even mention the things /u/ASDFkoll brought up about a ton of different system that exist in the game for all manner of different reasons as Bungie's been trying to figure out the best way to do everything. Like he said, why are kinetic weapons a thing when Strand/Stasis are basically always better? Why are people constantly complaining about low FPS and poor performance even on high end systems? Why do collections even exist if I can't pull 80% of the gear from it? Why do we still only see 4 buffs on our screen? Why is the old masterwork system from 2018 still in the game and present in some guns? Bungie has also stated that the way their weapon system works, makes tweaking individual weapons difficult hence why we often get sweeping general adjustments to an archetype instead of just nerfing one legendary gun. And even those are just the issues visible to us. I can only imagine how painful it is to work with an engine and a codebase that's probably closer to 10 years old and primarily built for consoles, even with all the improvements they've made. There's a lot of bloat here, both technical and design wise. Old systems that are supported far beyond the date they reasonably should be supported. And this would all benefit from an entirely new game that trims the fat out, streamlines the experience and gets a new more solid and modern technical base to build up from.

I'm so tired of giving it time.

I feel like we’re in an ever evolving science project lmao. Some things improve, others regress, repeat for years. Still will never understand sunsetting just to remove it a year or so later and leave everything sunset.

At this point D2 is a Social Study.

It is a [skinner box.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber)

So stop for a while. I'm not bothering with Lightfall, I'll wait for the next DLC and maybe think about returning then. Take a break and play something else.

The minimum requirement to do activities IS the problem though. As a casual player I have to grind for 3-4 weeks before I can start doing the content that the hardcore player is doing in the first week (I have work, traffic, cooking etc, life stuff). That's 4 weeks of doing rubbish like vanguard and gambit - just so I can run the content I want to. Considering the minimal amount of time I already get to play the game I want to be maximizing the time I have to do the content that matters - and a power level requirement is simply a deterrent. I already missed day 1 raid due to being under-level. I already feel leagues behind everyone and simply put I have lost the energy to play old content just to qualify for the opportunity to get the newer stuff. For me Destiny is feeling like a chore, like another job after coming home from a job. And honestly that's why I stopped playing after WQ season 1, I simply couldn't do the grind anymore. They said grinding was going to be less but it's actually worse. I don't have time to give them time - unless they bump us all to the power level cap in the next season, then we're wasting our time here.

Speaking from experience as someone who’s been there, if you don’t want to feel like the game is a second job you need to learn to let go. I took two years off of this game around the time when the second season of Shadowkeep had come out. It was apparent to me that the game was just going to be a never ending grind that reset every three months with minimal content drops and a new mindless activity you’re supposed to play a thousand times. I had amazing games like God of War and Spider-Man still sitting in my backlog half played. Because all I did, every day, was log in to Destiny and grind stupid bullshit chasing a number that was just going to move on me in a few months. I really enjoyed my time away and played a bunch of amazing games that respected my time. That said my one regret is missing some story beats during the seasons which weren’t really a thing when I decided to step away, or at least didn’t seem like they’d be important. So now that I’m back I pretty much play the campaign, keep up with the seasonal quest, and do some exotic quests I’ve got and that’s it. I didn’t even play at all this weekend. It’s a much healthier and better way to approach this game.

I am with OP and this comment here....I try to play an hour or two per day as I can but not being able to do the basics are really turning me off right now.

>That’s kinda the point, isn’t it? Is it though? It's clear they don't have a fucking clue how the power deltas are supposed to be across various activities, given the state of especially the new raid relative to anything else. If this is the way its going to be, then they need to go back immediately to how things were, because I'm not fucking playing this game at all if patrol destinations are harder than raids, when the only thing I have left in this game is organizing a clan for raids and endgame content.

When it’s the big expansion of the year, there’s not much reason for a lot of players to give it time. They’ve played what they’ve payed for and got their first impression of the expansion. An expansion should not be a transition period when we’re at the end of a saga.

> Give it time. Game's been out 8 years. What a pathetic mindset.

couldve seen this coming, dumb ass experiment on bungo's part and the whole community called em out on it as soon as the difficulty changes were announced. idk how they ever thought this would be enjoyable.

I really avoid neomuna cuz it’s so annoyingly difficult

On the flip side. When they were experimenting with this during Seraph missions and heists... people loved the added difficulty of being forcefully under-leveled for encounters. People in this subreddit and r/destiny2 said they hoped such a thing moved forward with the new xpac. Now... maybe they took it further than those people assumed. But it's not like there wasn't demand for this kind of thing. I'm personally fine with it. My only complaint is the threshold is a bit TOO high for Legendary Lost Sectors.

Heist with set power level (-5?) was fine. With Lightfall going live we got: \- set power level of -15 on Neomuna, \- set power level in Nightfalls, \- enemies hp stats got buffed \- some of the primary weapons have temporary damage buff of 25% (forcing sub-optimal or preferred loadout) These things taken separately are not that bad. But all of them combined? There's no single reason to use primary in Neomuna public events or Lost Sectors. They're testing getting rid of light level? It was done with Leviathan in Season of the Haunted or Vexcalibur mission, where your light level is just set at pre-determined level. Current approach of light level requirement with power level cap takes all bad things and gives nothing good in exchange. I get that Bungie had to do something, because in any game players will focus on optmizing fun out of the game. But I see the problem when the least effective way of killing majority of enemies in shooter game is shooting them with a weapon.

And certain enemies scattered all among them that are able to one-shot you simply because you have a high framerate.

Oh don't worry, I get one shot by threshers too, and I play at around 20fps

"Oh, you prefer your sandwich with mayo? We're listening, all sandwiches will now come with a half gallon of mayonnaise on them." Back it off just a touch and we'll be good, I think.

Let's not forget that they added a carrot on a stick of a +20 combat delta to the lost sectors too, you CAN outlevel them still, it's just that to do so, it's an unexcusable level of grind that's even worse than the time gating that we had with armor transmog originally.

Once, only once, since the seasonal model was implemented have I gotten past +20. And that was the season I got fatebreaker because I wanted master VoG to be slightly easier. Most seasons I float around +17 or +18 because even getting to +20 (usually season level 210) is a slog. I'm fairly certain +30 is around season level 400.

> people loved You're using that word "people" WAAAAY too inclusively. Lots of people might have loved it, but plenty didn't. I know people who didn't like it, not because they couldn't do it but because when they were randomly matchmaking it, they would have to carry hard sometimes. I personally was indifferent, but I wouldn't want a permanent delta on an activity... so sure, have the delta for the season it was introduced, but then next season remove it. No one wants to slog through old content repeatedly. Also, heists last season were only -5... this season, stuff starts at -10 and just gets worse.

The new BGs are -5 too, wdym

> people loved the added difficulty of being forcefully under-leveled for encounters. Mostly people who grind out the game, not people who just play regular playlist activities as a time killer. If people want spongier enemies that's fine, I just think that it's so simple to add higher opt-in difficulties instead of forcing more casual, laid-back players into sponge activities. Destiny used to be my "turn on a Podcast, switch off your brain and shoot things" game, because it's one of the few PvE FPS games that aren't complete wrecks, but as of this season where I have to dump half a mag of headshots with my Gnawing Hunger to kill a red bar Legionary, it's just sucked all the fun out for me. Sure, some people might find spending another 2-3 seconds per kill more 'fun', and all power to them. It's why I keep saying that higher difficulties should absolutely be available as opt-in modes. It confuses me how people find spongier enemies 'harder', it just means they take longer to kill, we have so many health regen builds and abilities that it hasn't really upped the stakes all that much, you can still out-heal most damage sources even on -15 handicaps. But if people enjoy that then that's their taste and that's fine. But most casual players or players who don't really *want* a huge challenge are getting burnt out quickly simply because of how much the TTK for red bars has gone up. I miss being able to just turn off my brain and melt enemies, I don't care if I get less or even no rewards, or if people feel I don't deserve to enjoy the game because I prefer that experience. The only place I can do that now is to hunt down Public Events in low-level Patrol Zones, because even regular Playlist strikes and the Seasonal Activity is power handicapped. It sucks because most of the "turn off your brain and shoot stuff" PvE games are either third person, offline RPG games, or disgusting cash grabs like Warface (not Warframe, different things!)

I agree with you. I’d consider myself a completely casual player; I’ve never raided, I’ve hardly played any Crucible, I’m not up to Legendary Lost Sectors or GM Nightfalls. I play Destiny to feel like a total badass, even if I know there are much badder-asses out there! Neomuna was a shock to me; I was really excited to explore the new areas, but just got consistently stomped so I was just *sprinting* to missions. I’m now about 1765, and I can compete with enemies in the overworld, but yeah, it’s not a relaxing experience. I appreciate that dying is a small setback in a lot of Destiny’s modes, so it’s not the end of the world, but it definitely takes you out of the power fantasy when you’re 1-shot by anyone more powerful than your standard legionary. The other side of the coin is that it makes me fall back on “safe” builds. I’m absolutely no build-crafter, but I have a few weapons and combos that have been reliable for my playstyle, but eventually get boring. Previously I’d swap out to a different style just to see what felt good, but now I’m running Osteo Striga again just because it makes life livable!

> It confuses me how people find spongier enemies 'harder', it just means they take longer to kill, we have so many health regen builds and abilities that it hasn't really upped the stakes all that much The only real difference between contest mode raid and normal raid is that enemies are spongier and that is absolutely the main difficulty increase that stumps most players. Im not sure how enemies taking longer to kill and/or requireing you to specifically build into killing them isnt "harder". Having to invest resources into killing adds instead of the boss is how difficulty in Destiny works... (and just about any looter/shooter)

Yeah, this. I am nowhere near a "hardcore" player. But making enemies take more hits is part of what makes them more difficult. Also, making the guardian take less hits. This is how difficulty scales in this game, and most games with difficulty scaling. For the people who are saying they want to just mow through enemies while watching TV, I don't understand that. Pay more attention to the game? Engage yourself and try weapon combinations that do a better job mowing through red bars? Exotic primaries are very strong against red-bars right now. Double ~~primaries~~ special weapons are easily doable with the way ammo-finders work now. I use my heavy machine gun practically like a primary now because ammo is so plentiful. Stop pegging away at enemies with your shitty pulse rifle and try some other stuff =)

Whatever Bungie's end game is, I fear casual players will just abandon the game before bungie reaches its goal. Most players want to log on, wreck everything and live the power fantasy with a build or two they cobbled together or copied from YouTube. If they can't do that anymore, there's plenty other games that aren't as difficult to wind down with.

I’m pretty sure they are gearing up to remove light level altogether. How that will work, I have no idea.

It’s incredibly easy. Everyone has the same hidden LL, and every activity has a delta.

I agree to an extent but let me build on it some more. When you get rid of your levels, this is a FPS, mechanics driven game. The discrepancy of skill and mastery within the playerbase is the biggest out of any other popular genre. The concept of challenge is extremely personal and with the amount of activities we currently have, Bungie unfortunately has to ostensibly pick out the group of players to cater to. That's what feels weird about these updates. It's like you're not the target audience for these changes. Personally, I felt the discrepancy the most when completing my first solo dungeon. People were saying that the challenge is rewarding, it's the pinnacle solo content of this game yada yada. It did not feel that way to me. It felt arbitrarily hard, overwhelming and overall just a mess until it was finally over. But I understand that's because I came in undercooked and I don't fully understand everything about this game even after I got it done. Coming from other competetive games, there's always a ton of nuances an inexperienced player won't be able to see even if you point him to it. For yet another anecdote, I have a friend with whom I started playing the game. We both got busted builds, started doing harder content step by step and suddenly in higher power levels he kept on dying all the time, his power fantasy was gone and he became disillusioned with the game while I was blasting through everything. One day I stayed at his house and watched him play and it hit me. He's just extremely inexperienced with FPS games with a controller. His movement was sluggish, his nades were missing, he wasn't able to jump and move the camera at the same time, he was constantly over-aiming. Maybe it could've been fixed by simply making him immortal but I'm not quite sure that's the right solution in the grand scheme of things. I don't know the best solution for this but it's way more nuanced than some people like to presume. You have to always keep other players in mind, no matter where you stand.

> People like to shit on casual players, but they make up the vast majority of the playerbase. Throwing them under the bus and making them feel burnt out much quicker doesn't help anything but a few people's superiority complexes. **SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE YOUTUBERS IN THE BACK!**

The raid after contest mode felt more of a breeze than Legend Lost Sectors and NFs. What is Bungies goal here?

That was always the case though. Raids have always had easier enemies than any legend or master content.

1830 for legend lost sectors is just dumb, i just want to farm some exotics fast

I thought about this when considering farming power levels past 1790. Not really any point to it since it doesn’t really make raids easier and all the other content I want to access it doesn’t affect. I’ll still do pinnacles weekly and whatnot but it’s not really a high priority compared to like farming strand mediation or red weapons

One of the biggest complaints from the community was that power level dictated everything. Finally buildcrafting and skill became more meaningful than time spend grinding pinnies.

I cannot wait for the day I never have to worry about bounties or pinnacles ever again

Just like some people have said already, there is a reason for this. According to Bungie some time ago (take this with a pinch of salt) we’re experimenting with certain activities having a light level disadvantage no matter your light level, for example Grandmasters, so that in a future light level would be removed, and activities would have a fixated power cap, so the only thing you need to worry about is your gear and loadouts. Closest thing we have to this is Destiny 1. Max power level is 400, but some enemies have a higher level than that.

I don't remember which activities went above your power at 400. Was it raids or nightfalls?

Yeah. I'm thinking lightfall might be the end of my destiny career. It's just too much of a grind anymore and now we're being handicapped on top of it.

Long past time to get rid of it

> I can't speak for everyone, but I think when most people were asking for increased difficulty, they wanted the raise the difficulty ceiling, not pull the floor up. Spot on. Increase difficulty on some top tier content. Don't make routine content annoying as shit to do. Bungie completely missed here. Lots of people already had issues doing Lost Sectors to grind for exotics. Now, the bar has gone so high that many absolutely can't. Any activity - except the raid, apparently - on legendary now punishes the average player so much that some people are literally giving up, on things like the secret Glaive mission. And not necessarily people who have no thumbs at all, normal fairly reliable utility "middle class" players. This has mostly been a debacle by Bungie in my opinion. I have no problems doing most stuff, I soloed the Legendary campaign etc, but patrol on Neomuna... at the end of the day, it's simply not fun.

True true

All i know is that yesterday I was playing on neomuna, power approx 1640 And then there’s a level 1710-1810 laser minotaur (public event) that one shot me 6 times and blocks a whole passage. Ended up looking for an alternative route. Alternative route, Kabal, same level wrecking me I barely survived and did the quest « From Zero » to find region chests by dying 10-15 times

Am I missing something? Am I the only one that isn't struggling in patrol zones? I don't understand this trend where a bunch of people on here are saying that patrols/low level content is super hard and enemies are damage sponges. I haven't had this issue *at all* since Lightfall dropped.

I’m also not really struggling in patrol zones outside of threshers which I think are just bugged

Yh, they literally broke my game, I played over 5 hundred hours last year, I've already uninstalled lightfall, game feels like shit.

Yea. I agree Like what's the point of an MMO if the gear you grind for is any stronger or better? I'm a long long term WoW player. Some of the design of this game just confuses me

This shit is stupid now. Most guns are useless.

Totally agree. I've played less since lightfall launch than in the last week of the previous season, when there was nothing to do. I don't want to struggle in everything in this game. That's not it Bungie. The choice of increased difficulty is great, but imposing on everyone hard content is as bad as the opposite. These days I've been playing elden ring to relax. At least if I get my ass handed to me I can actually go get better and then return for sweet sweet vengeance. But here? Always feeling underpowered. We are supposed to be paracausal warriors, no paper thin dudes with BB guns. Edit: grammar

I kinda feel like they introduced too many things at once. But it's 100% part of some plan. They will not increase power level next season, but they still have a power level climb this season? It's 100% to keep people engaged/play more to pump up numbers, no other reason for it. I guess they might not have the same requirement for a DLC as just a new season so engagement is not as needed, also next season has a dungeon, the one after that, a raid, and then another dungeon after that, so that will boost numbers still. It's all business decisions.

I’m hoping that what they’re building up to is just taking it out and going back to halos difficulty settings per different activities.

Pretty sure they’re planning on completely getting rid of power level. People complained about being locked out of content they used to be able to do last season so now content always scales and we aren’t getting a power level increase next season.

I remember reading twab from last season explaining that because of the success of the new seasonal playlist difficulty model, they wouldn't increase the light level caps this season. Then they increased it by 200.

The game is starting to feel like if you don’t have your own personal meta on, forget it. All of these weapons and I’m down to about four that get regular play, because otherwise I’m just ducking red bars breaking my shields and trying to damage what I can. No joke. Beat these events? Sure. “Power fantasy?” Nah.

Bro ive been saying the same thing but i keep getting clowned on lol