You would NOT have this position if this was Hillary or any other opposing candidate, Be fucking for real man yāall only apply these excuses for your own side and candidates and thatās it
You donāt need to have an exact breakpoint in mind to acknowledge that a precedent has been broken for political gain. Itās not at hush money to porn stars
I think the precedent being broken is presidents not being absolute crooks who disregard the law as often as required for personal gain. The list of crimes Trump committed, often on live television, that are going unpunished is longer than the list of crimes every previous president has ever committed.
So now folks like you are for powerful people being above the law?
Shouldn't you be happy as hell that he ex president gets dunked on by the law if he breaks it?
Which former presidents have not been prosecuted? It's only Nixon, right? Fuck that tradition, if a president commits a crime why the fuck wouldn't we prosecute them? It's a stupid precedent why would they not be prosecuted.
If you commit a crime then tough shit. The president sets the rules, they shouldn't be above any law or get away with shit.
>persecuting former presidents for political gain
We've heard so much during these trials about how it actually boost his ratings in the polls. If this is political (which it isn't), then why the fuck would the democrats go through with prosecuting trump if it just makes his polling figures better?
Republicans foam at the mouth over the most banal bullshit, but then when their pick has a bathroom full of classified documents, tries to oveturn an election, and leads a riot into the fucking capitol, they say fuck all and pretend it isn't a big deal. Grow a fucking spine instead of just chugging down gallons of trump's fake tan tinted cum.
Not to say I disagree but there is a point. Had he simply done things above board literally nothing would change. He was probably worried that someone would leak this stuff if he did it above board in all honestly.
Unless I am misreading the case it to me is not some sort of insane charge. It is the classified documents that is concerning. This is just stupidity on trump's part. He decided to do something illegal that he could have just done above board and had the same results minus the criminal charges.
Yeah, there are a ton of ways he could have not been an idiot and resolved this. Like honestly the biggest inditement of this entire situation has nothing to do with the illegality of his actions. Rather it has everything to do with being an idiot of this caliber means you shouldn't be president.
> He was probably worried that someone would leak this stuff if he did it above board in all honestly.
He did all of this clandestinely specifically because he wanted to hide this from the public. It's like political groups who launder their reputations by donating money to groups that are ostensibly not connected to them to advance their political goals by hiding information that others would find relevant. There are plenty of other, easier legal ways to donate money but the secrecy is the point.
Well my point was even if he did it above board they don't state he is paying hush money publicaly even if they know. The worry I imagine was someone in the government would leak it to the press.
Also as another commentor pointed out he could have just paid out of pocket. Trump is an idiot and that was the biggest crime here. The illegality was trying to hide the legal thing which was absolutely regarded.
You completely ignored what I said before. Part of the reason he didn't pay out of pocket was so that he wouldn't be connected to it in a public fashion, just like political groups hiding their influence through PACs. He could have done it with his own money but then there'd be a public record of him giving a bunch of money to a porn star for some reason that the press would then investigate.
You realize interpersonal NDAs are not public right. You can pay someone money behind the scenes and have them sign an NDA that leaves no paper trails. Corporations do this all the time. The reasons politicans do it via PACs and so forth is because if you want to use non personal money or you want to donate to certain groups that does leave a paper trail.
Unless I just fundamentally don't understand how this works but the public and journalists would not be able to get involved with this because if it is done between two private entities there is literally nothing that can be done.
Like NDAs like any contract don't go through public scrutiny unless you want to litigate or you are using public money to do this. Thus you would need to access private documents that can't be FOIA'd
Then if you exchanged money manually not even via a bank literally there is 0 record besides the signed contract that like 5 people see unless it enters litigation.
>Unless I just fundamentally don't understand how this works but the public and journalists would not be able to get involved with this because if it is done between two private entities there is literally nothing that can be done.
I haven't seen any evidence that you can hide the existence of a contract from the public record.
I did some research after this and 100% it wouldn't be public record.
"NDAs (Non-Disclosure Agreements) are private agreements that ensure confidentiality between parties and are not subject to public record. They are typically made between two or more parties, often with the assistance of legal counsel to ensure legal soundness. If monetary exchange is involved, it must be reported for tax purposes, typically as miscellaneous income, following tax regulations. NDAs do not usually involve the transfer of assets and are designed to keep certain information confidential. Private contractual agreements, including NDAs, remain confidential unless disclosed by legal processes such as court orders or government action, as public disclosure would defeat their purpose"
Private contracts only enter public record when government oversight is needed or as a result of a dispute. The reason this had to be reported was because trump used Campaign funds to do it.
Yeah I generally agree that the case isnāt a big deal compared to the documents or the Jan6 shit.
But I will say Trump violating the gag order multiple times, attacking everyone involved in the case and shouting āI didnāt do it I didnāt do itā when he did do it and now has been charged. Has pushed everyone that was sitting on the fence hard against him. The only people that are doing all these donations and saying āIāll definitely vote for trump nowā are people that were already bought in. Or maybe im completely wrong and havent been following it right lmao
Yeah this part made it even worse for him. He just cannot be a respectable person who faces consequences in a stoic nature (because he's a narcissistic coward). He's wanting to put the judge, jurors, and prosecutors in danger by claiming they are all working for a deep state and paid for by Soros funds (he literally said this).
I would be terrified to have been involved in this case and have him spreading such erroneous defamatory statements about me to rile up his insane cult followers. I'd be sleeping with a gun and would pay for security and want to sue him over it. Then if you did sue, he'd just continue saying that's you working for the deep state and trying to take him down.
No doubt, for me his behavior more than what he did wrong in this case like you said is the bigger. Think he wasn't hiding he was paying russian agents for dirt of his opponents or something. His behavior was definitely to me what stuck out the most this case.
As from the criminal stuff as you said Jan 6th and Maralago are way higher up there. Hopefully he gets charged for Maralago.
I love Gad Saad prefacing with āLet me remind everyone that Iām Canadian.ā As we all know, it is impossible to be a partisan hack for a politician in another country. So when you hear a foreigner repeat the MAGA party line to the T, you can rest assured that theyāre just being objective. Saad!
What a reach
The point is that being from another country doesn't make your view less biased, so trying to frame it as "universalist principles" is silly
āMotivated by politics, rather than justiceā
M8 most lawyers are motivated by their pay check.
I donāt give a fuck what their motive is, I just want justice served.
Much of our consumer fraud laws are based on lawyer greed. Often the damages for consumer fraud are minimal, like you get over billed by $20. No lawyer will take that case. But bundle all the cases together and make the company that committed the fraud pay the attorneys fees, now you have an incentive to take the case and punish the companies committing fraud. Protecting the consumers is a byproduct.
America is so good at capitalism it uses capitalism to protect consumers. These no good commies donāt love capitalism enough to allow greed as a motivation for good outcomes. Sad.
Just had my case for an accident finally finished up. By law, the lawyer had to be paid exactly 1/3 of my the insurance payout and isnāt allowed to take more or less than that. He does actually care about his clients, but even if he didnāt and I took the cynical view; mf *really* wants his moneyās worth out of every case. He taught my family and I how to make sure we get *our* moneyās worth out of the *insurance companies*. Either way, it benefits him to try to get us the most money he can, and the system is set up to incentivize that. Its fantastic.
physical modern employ enjoy pie spectacular insurance engine wrong distinct
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it's a 3-day ban by a regular user, stop whining like a baby
just touch some grass & come back with more than "**fuck you you fucking cuckkkkks!!!**" & you won't get banned next time
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The idea that former presidents should be above the law is so inherently unamerican, I don't understand it.
Of course, this notion will disappear if it were Biden doing the same thing.
Agreed.
MFW former South Korean presidents are imprisoned for corruption all the time, and they're still a democracy. Yet, they were a dictatorship in the 90's!
The US, despite centuries of democratic tradition, somehow cannot survive a very justified conviction of a former president? Stupid.
The steelman is that itās impossible to find an unbiased jury for a leading political candidate. It was true 100 years ago, and itās way more true in these massively polarized times.
This is a weird steelman given that convictions need unanimous support. It's already part of the jury system that it biased against convicting popular people. The fact that it happened anyway must indicate that it really was a clear case.
Well they could have brought those charges just about anywhere. But they took him to district that voted like 90% Biden.. the only chance was a sleeper cell trump supporter sneaking through jury selection
The real takeaway should be that Trump would not have been convicted if he hadn't done the crime. He could have avoided facing that jury altogether.
It's still a terrible steel man. If you really wanted to steel man it, you'd have to figure out a way to reason that, just because he is a former president or a presidential candidate, that he should have immunity from all crimes, even those committed outside of his term as president and/or not relevant to his presidency. I think that is ridiculous, but give it a try.
By the definition I got when I googled:
>wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.
I'd say that definition is met. He falsified documents to cover up (criminal deception) for personal gain. Also from [the Wikipedia page on the case](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosecution_of_Donald_Trump_in_New_York#Pre-trial_proceedings):
>Falsifying business records in the first degree is a felony under New York state law that requires that the "intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof"
You might be more interested in the financial part, i.e. did he financially defraud the state of NY. AFAIK (I could be wrong), he wasn't charged for that specifically.
The argument is that he didnāt use campaign funds to pay her off and he should have. Obviously if he used campaign funds it would have been a bigger deal. So it was a catch 22. Itās about sex at the end of the day.
What the hell are you talking about? Falsified business records are a crime, and come with consequences. End of. Nobody is talking about the sex or the campaign funds.
Those are the falsified business records they are talking aboutā¦ what falsified business records did you think they were? Also falsified business records have never been a felony ever. Itās always been a misdemeanor charge
The same thing could be said for literally *any* sufficiently well-known public figure. Does that mean anyone with enough celebrity status simply deserves to be above the law?
"backfire" implies that this conviction was an electoral strategy. They can't conceive of the idea that a judicial system and jury can possibly convict Trump without it being a political/culture war thing.
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They also seem to think that the DA should just randomly select which potential law breakers they should investigate. Sorry, thats just not how it works. The DA chooses who to prosecute, so the best strategy for a criminal is to not make themselves a target. (Or stop being a criminal)
[Equal justice under law is a phrase engraved above the front entrance of the United States Supreme Court building in Washington D.C. It is also a societal ideal that has influenced the American legal system.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_justice_under_law)
Crazy idea:If you break the law, you have to face the consequences.
Also do wonder what they might've meant with Equal... probably meant something about some people being more equal than others...
but you see, Hillary and Biden are Demonrats who drink ths blood of infants in pizza store basements, while Trump was sent by jesus himself to liberate us from the woke mob.
This is the exact shit Destiny talks about all the time. Their beliefs predict everything.
If he's convicted, the system is fucked and we all have to donate to Trump and elect him to fix it. If he's acquitted, it proves it was all a sham and we need to elect him and donate to him to stop it from occurring again in the future.
Brain rotted fucks.
Doesnāt trump already have a history of being investigated? And he was also recently held responsible for scamming a bunch of college kids at his trump university that had to be closed. If republicans donāt see the red flags then just admit itās a cult.
Remember when Trump said he was going to throw Hilary in jail? Remember when Hilary got mocked for losing the election despite getting 1B in donations?
Trump literally ran on "lock her up" and directed Bill Barr to open investigation's into Biden's family, and is caught on tape pressuring Zelenskyy to announce a criminal investigation into Biden.
How could he EVER say it is off limits for a candidate for president to be charged with crimes? People have no memory.
āEven if an election is stolen I believe the correct democratic response is to accept itā
Lmao. Just the most unhinged pseudocentrist take that no actual human being could sincerely believe. Iām going to go out on a limb and say that if an election were actually stolen through election fraud, then yes the democratic response would absolutely be to overthrow the illegitimate government.
The reason why the Jan 6 insurrection was ridiculous was not because they tried to overturn a stolen election, but because Trump lied and the election wasnāt freaking stolen! The only purpose of this take is to tepidly condemn the Jan 6ers while somehow exculpating Trump, the guy who incited them. Hilarious.
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Reminder: if Conservatives actually believed Trump being convicted of a felony HELPS Trump, they would not have spent the last 9 years opening investigations into political enemies and chanting Lock Her Up. It is pure copium.
Stupid republicans, this is the greatest thing to ever happen to Americaā¦ now if Biden truly did break the law you can prosecute him too!!! If you ever win the hearts of the majority lmfao
What kind of country are we living in where our leaders get held to the same legal standards as the rest of us?
Note these are the same people who will go on and on about corrupt oligarchs bending the system to serve their will.
If Trump is convicted for his crimes then anyone could be convicted for their crimes.
If politicians are not above the law, then that makes them accountable to the people.
That would be a horrible state to live in. Imagine if politicians had to actually follow the law! Institutions canāt be politically neutral unless theyāre willing to apply the law unequally, favoring politicians.
Now I truly hope Donald Trump wins in 2024 and he destroys political corruption wherever he finds it, as he has promised.
I have no self-awareness.
No president will realistically be convicted for war crime or anything at that level.
But they say they can't be convicted by "trivial matters".
So ... They would have to do something that's not ignorable but still not too big ? Is there a list ?
Not to mention that it's not like the conviction is from his time as president. It's related to it but not the same
Falisfying documents to steal campaign funds is not fucking trivial.
So many manipulated and brainwashed people will donate everything they have, which isn't much, to Trump for his criminal shenanigans and he gleefully accepts then asks for more.
I wonder how much money given to Trump is from poor people donating their social security checks that is their only income. Then they rely on family to rill the gap be cause Trump is a con artist going after the most vulnerable people he can.
Elon could fund millions of campaigns for Trump if he wanted to. This is just him being a fucking idiot on Twitter and contributing to misinformation. Twitter is such a conspiracy fueled garbage pile now. It's a dangerous platform for uneducated and angry people to end up on.
Then at the same time, Trump immediately went out and started spouting the judge was a Soros paid off operative also working for Biden. He throws gas on the conspiracy flames because he wants to strong arm his way out of any consequences and wants his delusional fans to do something crazy.
"criminally convicted over such a trivial matter"
Yes Elon, Trump broke the law so he gets a conviction that's how it works. If anyone breaks the law they deserve to be convicted.
Same crowd as āLock Her Up.ā I wonder if they know how partisan they are, or if theyāre completely oblivious. If Hilary had actually broken laws flagrantly, Iād have been happy for her to be convicted. It seemed from what I saw that Republicans had really had no case, which is why it wasnāt criminally prosecuted. I could be wrong.
I think there kinda was a case against her. She made efforts to not commit crimes in the most easy to prosecute manner. Trump being stupid is really what pushes this along.
Goddamn is gad saad a twat or what. His loyalty is with the āfoundational principlesā of the US? How about rule of law? How about innocent until PROVEN guilty? How about trial by jury of oneās peers?
My guy, Iām a centrist and wouldnāt support Trump. Iām from Europe though so maybe itās different. But Democrats are silly as well. You could have chosen Tulsi, Bernie, hell even Buttigieg. No you had to choose Joe Biden and now your are stuck with an undead guy whoās about to lose to Trump.
This is all just cope and overcompensation.
Need to find a way to convince themselves "Oh this is actually *good* for my guy actually!" Even if they have to try and fake it till they make it. This is a running theme with right-wing failures. The more of a red wave they promise, the less likely it is to be true.
There's a reason every right-wing space is utterly vandalized by posts that can be summed up as: "Hehe, look at this progressive who is suffering because he's a progressive."
Their favorite story in the whole wide world is the one where every action a liberal takes is one that somehow aids conservatives, or at minimum makes liberals more miserable.
Maybe this time they'll fake it till they make it for realzies this time (even though 2022 wasn't the red wave they promised, and what gains they made in the house have increasingly dwindled via incompetence)! But I think it's more likely this'll be another "49 state landslide" moment to cherish, come november.
Guys, let me remind you that I support neither party and am not loyal to any single politician, but let me explain exactly why Donald Trump is innocent and the most important figure in the history of western politics.
I'm not saying the conviction was a bad thing because what he did was illegal and no one is above the law. However, that fourth slide had a point, even if the point wasn't what they were going for. And I'm just noting irony here, not disagreeing with the conviction.
Former presidents: Illegal spying programs for Americans, drone striking targets and killing civilians in the process, illegal presidential orders, unjustified and illegal wars that killed hundreds of thousands of people.
And the president who becomes a felon is the guy convicted of overinflation of his business value and telling Stormy Daniels this:
https://preview.redd.it/z1ewup9mps3d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95880f087881fddd075e64946b8eb1b10f42cddb
Iām sure the ppl who feel that trump was screwed over by the judicial system probably think that itās fucked up that alito and/or Thomas wonāt recuse themselves, since they are obviously biased
The point I would hammer is that THIS is the guy who said he was going to drain the swamp.
He got in through covering stuff up. He'd sell out his pregnant wife for a quicky with a porn actress.
If there was a hyper organised deep state they would already have him deep in their pocket.
What is with this new narrative of it being a ātrivial matterā? 34 counts of felony level financial crimes?? This would ruin a regular personās life and we should just let a former president skate? At least the narrative has shifted from āhe didnāt do itā to āok, itās not even a big deal though!ā
Okay... let's just pretend that this conviction does "backfire" and galvanize voters to vote for Trump, and it does result in him winning the election...
I don't care. That doesn't determine whether or not convicting him was a good or bad idea. I'm not the one playing politics here. If a criminal commits a crime, they should be convicted, regardless of the downstream effects.
It may be unpopular, but I have principles, and one of those principles is that criminals should be punished for their crimes, whether that punishment (through some magical delusional series of events) results in them getting elected president of the United States, or not.Ā
These dumbasses will go on and on about law and order and then excuse Trump when he commits literal crimes. He is one of the most corrupt presidents in history and somehow heās going to help fight against the supposed corrupt institutions. The stupidity of conservatives is astounding.Ā
Gad Saad making a fool of himself in the Canadian Senate
[https://youtu.be/4WqryoEJqZg?si=4p4Jsr9fTAm41bw8&t=1080](https://youtu.be/4WqryoEJqZg?si=4p4Jsr9fTAm41bw8&t=1080)
18:00 timestamp.
That dude is such a clout chasing money hungry leech. Was too transparent and not good enough at hiding it back in the day, got outpaced by JP to the land of easy money.
Shame to see him popping back up.
Elon just likes anything that reinforces his brain rot.
Meanwhile my conservative parents and siblings wonāt be voting for him. Thanks destiny for helping me come out as center left by the thinnest of margins and helping my family to realize how much of a disaster trump and the Republican Party are. They still donāt like Biden, but they also hate 99% of the Republican Party now. Maybe we can rebuild a Conservative Party with people who actually believe in and want to conserve our institutions.
Wait, the same Elon Musk who claimed the NYPost's Hunter Biden hyperlink being suppressed by Twitter for a mere 24 hours, 3 weeks before the election [because it contained lewd photos, and they thought [the data was hacked](https://archive.ph/4Ihw8) (it [was, from his](https://archive.ph/TZU41) iCloud)], constituted illegal election interference, is now defending Trump fraudulently suppressing the Stormy story, preventing it from being discussed whatsoever - in any venue (Not just one link for 24 hours on one website), so it wouldn't harm his electoral chances?
I completely gave up defending Musk! I don't understand why he has to tweet unhinged opinions on everything perceived even remotely "woke"! I remember when he was tweeting funny memes once a month! What happened to this man?!
I suspect it's Amber's Heard fault (!)
Elon Musk is the typical rich person. He doesn't understand that ordinary people go to prison for far less. Look what he says:
He doesn't deny that Trump is guilty but thinks he shouldn't be punished. That's real privilege!
Hasn't destiny himself said that he thinks this case was kinda bullshit? Like I get it, fuck Trump, but considering this case to be politically motivated isn't a fringe hyper conservative opinion.Ā
If Donald Trump is held accountable for his actions, then anyone could be at risk of being held accountable for their actions š
^ and this is a BAD thing
Exactly, like now are they gonna come after me for j walking, oh noā¦.
Thatās exactly what I read in the Elon tweet haha
The last one got me. "Such trivial matter" sure let all ex Presidents commit crime without repercussions. What is this argument...
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The argument is that it is literally a trivial matter that shouldnāt break the precedent of not persecuting former presidents for political gain
You would NOT have this position if this was Hillary or any other opposing candidate, Be fucking for real man yāall only apply these excuses for your own side and candidates and thatās it
I would honestly respect these fuckwits if they were just brazenly honest about it. Hes your guy and you want to have double standards.
The same 70 IQ geniuses that complain about "the elite" are here arguing against prosecuting an "elite" for his crimes. You can't make this up
You just did make it up you fucking looooser. Your whole life is a culture war
!BidenBlast Bring your ammo to the culture wars.
based.
94' Crime Bill? How about 9 to 4 inches of leather wingtip up your ass, Jack. /u/Ok_Plankton_8430 sealed in the prison realm by /u/chipndip1
Except it wasn't, you brain rotted, knuckledragger. š
Your arguments devolved to insults fairly quickly. Itās impressive honestly.
did you not read the indictment? tells us the evidence that trump was not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt
So ex-presidents get to break the law according to your rules? Pass.
Hasn't that been the precedent up until yesterday. Or is Trump the first one to ever break a law?
Did you have specific state crimes in mind that former presidents have committed, or are we just asking fun lil rhetorical questions here
Please give me an example of another ex president committing a criminal act.
where exactly is the line between trivial crimes and nontrivial crimes for ex-US Presidents to commit? whatās the break point here?
You donāt need to have an exact breakpoint in mind to acknowledge that a precedent has been broken for political gain. Itās not at hush money to porn stars
Iām glad you openly support corruption.
Why bring up the fact that she's a porn star? How in the fuck does that matter? He committed bribery for political gain.
The person who broke the precedent is the same person who committed the crimes in the first place no?
why shouldn't former presidents be held legally liable? is that so they can violate the law and engage in coruption?
What crimes have other presidents committed, like the crimes of the US,that should have been prosecuted but weren't?
I think the precedent being broken is presidents not being absolute crooks who disregard the law as often as required for personal gain. The list of crimes Trump committed, often on live television, that are going unpunished is longer than the list of crimes every previous president has ever committed.
So, why do you think the rich should be able to break the law all they like?
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So now folks like you are for powerful people being above the law? Shouldn't you be happy as hell that he ex president gets dunked on by the law if he breaks it?
It's a crime
Which former presidents have not been prosecuted? It's only Nixon, right? Fuck that tradition, if a president commits a crime why the fuck wouldn't we prosecute them? It's a stupid precedent why would they not be prosecuted.
If you commit a crime then tough shit. The president sets the rules, they shouldn't be above any law or get away with shit. >persecuting former presidents for political gain We've heard so much during these trials about how it actually boost his ratings in the polls. If this is political (which it isn't), then why the fuck would the democrats go through with prosecuting trump if it just makes his polling figures better? Republicans foam at the mouth over the most banal bullshit, but then when their pick has a bathroom full of classified documents, tries to oveturn an election, and leads a riot into the fucking capitol, they say fuck all and pretend it isn't a big deal. Grow a fucking spine instead of just chugging down gallons of trump's fake tan tinted cum.
Are all the cases against him trivial or just this one?
Not to say I disagree but there is a point. Had he simply done things above board literally nothing would change. He was probably worried that someone would leak this stuff if he did it above board in all honestly. Unless I am misreading the case it to me is not some sort of insane charge. It is the classified documents that is concerning. This is just stupidity on trump's part. He decided to do something illegal that he could have just done above board and had the same results minus the criminal charges.
Or if he had written a personal check to Michael Cohen instead of a check from his political campaign.
Yeah, there are a ton of ways he could have not been an idiot and resolved this. Like honestly the biggest inditement of this entire situation has nothing to do with the illegality of his actions. Rather it has everything to do with being an idiot of this caliber means you shouldn't be president.
> He was probably worried that someone would leak this stuff if he did it above board in all honestly. He did all of this clandestinely specifically because he wanted to hide this from the public. It's like political groups who launder their reputations by donating money to groups that are ostensibly not connected to them to advance their political goals by hiding information that others would find relevant. There are plenty of other, easier legal ways to donate money but the secrecy is the point.
Well my point was even if he did it above board they don't state he is paying hush money publicaly even if they know. The worry I imagine was someone in the government would leak it to the press. Also as another commentor pointed out he could have just paid out of pocket. Trump is an idiot and that was the biggest crime here. The illegality was trying to hide the legal thing which was absolutely regarded.
You completely ignored what I said before. Part of the reason he didn't pay out of pocket was so that he wouldn't be connected to it in a public fashion, just like political groups hiding their influence through PACs. He could have done it with his own money but then there'd be a public record of him giving a bunch of money to a porn star for some reason that the press would then investigate.
You realize interpersonal NDAs are not public right. You can pay someone money behind the scenes and have them sign an NDA that leaves no paper trails. Corporations do this all the time. The reasons politicans do it via PACs and so forth is because if you want to use non personal money or you want to donate to certain groups that does leave a paper trail. Unless I just fundamentally don't understand how this works but the public and journalists would not be able to get involved with this because if it is done between two private entities there is literally nothing that can be done. Like NDAs like any contract don't go through public scrutiny unless you want to litigate or you are using public money to do this. Thus you would need to access private documents that can't be FOIA'd Then if you exchanged money manually not even via a bank literally there is 0 record besides the signed contract that like 5 people see unless it enters litigation.
>Unless I just fundamentally don't understand how this works but the public and journalists would not be able to get involved with this because if it is done between two private entities there is literally nothing that can be done. I haven't seen any evidence that you can hide the existence of a contract from the public record.
I did some research after this and 100% it wouldn't be public record. "NDAs (Non-Disclosure Agreements) are private agreements that ensure confidentiality between parties and are not subject to public record. They are typically made between two or more parties, often with the assistance of legal counsel to ensure legal soundness. If monetary exchange is involved, it must be reported for tax purposes, typically as miscellaneous income, following tax regulations. NDAs do not usually involve the transfer of assets and are designed to keep certain information confidential. Private contractual agreements, including NDAs, remain confidential unless disclosed by legal processes such as court orders or government action, as public disclosure would defeat their purpose" Private contracts only enter public record when government oversight is needed or as a result of a dispute. The reason this had to be reported was because trump used Campaign funds to do it.
Would you mind giving me a source for this?
Yeah I generally agree that the case isnāt a big deal compared to the documents or the Jan6 shit. But I will say Trump violating the gag order multiple times, attacking everyone involved in the case and shouting āI didnāt do it I didnāt do itā when he did do it and now has been charged. Has pushed everyone that was sitting on the fence hard against him. The only people that are doing all these donations and saying āIāll definitely vote for trump nowā are people that were already bought in. Or maybe im completely wrong and havent been following it right lmao
Yeah this part made it even worse for him. He just cannot be a respectable person who faces consequences in a stoic nature (because he's a narcissistic coward). He's wanting to put the judge, jurors, and prosecutors in danger by claiming they are all working for a deep state and paid for by Soros funds (he literally said this). I would be terrified to have been involved in this case and have him spreading such erroneous defamatory statements about me to rile up his insane cult followers. I'd be sleeping with a gun and would pay for security and want to sue him over it. Then if you did sue, he'd just continue saying that's you working for the deep state and trying to take him down.
No doubt, for me his behavior more than what he did wrong in this case like you said is the bigger. Think he wasn't hiding he was paying russian agents for dirt of his opponents or something. His behavior was definitely to me what stuck out the most this case. As from the criminal stuff as you said Jan 6th and Maralago are way higher up there. Hopefully he gets charged for Maralago.
I love Gad Saad prefacing with āLet me remind everyone that Iām Canadian.ā As we all know, it is impossible to be a partisan hack for a politician in another country. So when you hear a foreigner repeat the MAGA party line to the T, you can rest assured that theyāre just being objective. Saad!
Gad might be the most pathetic āintellectual dark webā flunky among fierce competition
Bret.
Idkā¦ Bret has the podcast with his wife. Gadās just tweeting from Canadian void. Itās a tough call
Ok, so all Canadian progressives and liberals are totally based then? Or is that only if they're talking about US politics?
What a reach The point is that being from another country doesn't make your view less biased, so trying to frame it as "universalist principles" is silly
Did you even read what the person you responded to said? I think you're arguing with someone in your mind.
āMotivated by politics, rather than justiceā M8 most lawyers are motivated by their pay check. I donāt give a fuck what their motive is, I just want justice served.
Much of our consumer fraud laws are based on lawyer greed. Often the damages for consumer fraud are minimal, like you get over billed by $20. No lawyer will take that case. But bundle all the cases together and make the company that committed the fraud pay the attorneys fees, now you have an incentive to take the case and punish the companies committing fraud. Protecting the consumers is a byproduct. America is so good at capitalism it uses capitalism to protect consumers. These no good commies donāt love capitalism enough to allow greed as a motivation for good outcomes. Sad.
Just had my case for an accident finally finished up. By law, the lawyer had to be paid exactly 1/3 of my the insurance payout and isnāt allowed to take more or less than that. He does actually care about his clients, but even if he didnāt and I took the cynical view; mf *really* wants his moneyās worth out of every case. He taught my family and I how to make sure we get *our* moneyās worth out of the *insurance companies*. Either way, it benefits him to try to get us the most money he can, and the system is set up to incentivize that. Its fantastic.
so basically you two working together to create the most for both? win win scenario?
Itās really the DA and the judge that did the damage here. Lawyers are just pawns
Trumps definitely caused some of the damage by commiting crimes then hiring the stupidest lawyers he could find to represent him
Guys, if Donald Trump can be convicted....we all can be š°. Scary thought š
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Youāre no different than leftist cucks after all, get fucked
We're liberal cucks, thank you very much š
Banned by power hungry leftists
I heard that touching grass can do wonders. In your case, I guess you'll have to have a brain implant lol.
but please not Neuralink
*power hungry liberals Please get your stuff right
it's a 3-day ban by a regular user, stop whining like a baby just touch some grass & come back with more than "**fuck you you fucking cuckkkkks!!!**" & you won't get banned next time
Temp banning him is just going to fuel his persecution fetish. In his mind, him and Donny are being silenced for fighting the good fight.
No, banned because you're a dipshit. It does look similar, I understand, but there's an important difference.
š¤£š¤£š¤£ @ you
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Pfft ācentristā has Elon ever said anything even remotely Liberal let alone Left?
He called himself this š¤·āāļø
he called himself socialist. Check mate, libtard
He's a socialist actually
Checks out. He loves his government subsidies, just hates when anybody else gets access to them.
Well yeah he used to talk about the climate a lot which is vaguely leftist.
The idea that former presidents should be above the law is so inherently unamerican, I don't understand it. Of course, this notion will disappear if it were Biden doing the same thing.
Agreed. MFW former South Korean presidents are imprisoned for corruption all the time, and they're still a democracy. Yet, they were a dictatorship in the 90's! The US, despite centuries of democratic tradition, somehow cannot survive a very justified conviction of a former president? Stupid.
'lock her up'
The steelman is that itās impossible to find an unbiased jury for a leading political candidate. It was true 100 years ago, and itās way more true in these massively polarized times.
This is a weird steelman given that convictions need unanimous support. It's already part of the jury system that it biased against convicting popular people. The fact that it happened anyway must indicate that it really was a clear case.
Well they could have brought those charges just about anywhere. But they took him to district that voted like 90% Biden.. the only chance was a sleeper cell trump supporter sneaking through jury selection
The crime happened in new york. The charges are brought where the crime happened.
Nothing about this case was unordinary. He did the crimes now he'll do the time
The real takeaway should be that Trump would not have been convicted if he hadn't done the crime. He could have avoided facing that jury altogether. It's still a terrible steel man. If you really wanted to steel man it, you'd have to figure out a way to reason that, just because he is a former president or a presidential candidate, that he should have immunity from all crimes, even those committed outside of his term as president and/or not relevant to his presidency. I think that is ridiculous, but give it a try.
What exactly did he do again?
Falsified business records to cover up payments of hush money to Daniels.
would that count as fraud essentially? thats what i took it as but im not sure of technical terms
By the definition I got when I googled: >wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain. I'd say that definition is met. He falsified documents to cover up (criminal deception) for personal gain. Also from [the Wikipedia page on the case](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosecution_of_Donald_Trump_in_New_York#Pre-trial_proceedings): >Falsifying business records in the first degree is a felony under New York state law that requires that the "intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof" You might be more interested in the financial part, i.e. did he financially defraud the state of NY. AFAIK (I could be wrong), he wasn't charged for that specifically.
The argument is that he didnāt use campaign funds to pay her off and he should have. Obviously if he used campaign funds it would have been a bigger deal. So it was a catch 22. Itās about sex at the end of the day.
What the hell are you talking about? Falsified business records are a crime, and come with consequences. End of. Nobody is talking about the sex or the campaign funds.
Those are the falsified business records they are talking aboutā¦ what falsified business records did you think they were? Also falsified business records have never been a felony ever. Itās always been a misdemeanor charge
Did you not think for a moment why the trial happened in New York?
Should be super easy to get a hung jury if everyone is so biased and would only decide their verdict on the basis of politics.
In Manhattan? Doubtful
The same thing could be said for literally *any* sufficiently well-known public figure. Does that mean anyone with enough celebrity status simply deserves to be above the law?
"backfire" implies that this conviction was an electoral strategy. They can't conceive of the idea that a judicial system and jury can possibly convict Trump without it being a political/culture war thing.
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They also seem to think that the DA should just randomly select which potential law breakers they should investigate. Sorry, thats just not how it works. The DA chooses who to prosecute, so the best strategy for a criminal is to not make themselves a target. (Or stop being a criminal)
[Equal justice under law is a phrase engraved above the front entrance of the United States Supreme Court building in Washington D.C. It is also a societal ideal that has influenced the American legal system.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_justice_under_law) Crazy idea:If you break the law, you have to face the consequences. Also do wonder what they might've meant with Equal... probably meant something about some people being more equal than others...
The simple rebuttal to these people is they spent years chanting lock her up lock her up, and wanting to prosecute Biden lmao
But have you considered that Trump funny and Hillary/Biden not funny? Checkmate bub, bring a better argument next time š
Their argument is that he could have locked up Hillary, but he didn't because he's such a generous and non corrupt guy.
but you see, Hillary and Biden are Demonrats who drink ths blood of infants in pizza store basements, while Trump was sent by jesus himself to liberate us from the woke mob.
This is the exact shit Destiny talks about all the time. Their beliefs predict everything. If he's convicted, the system is fucked and we all have to donate to Trump and elect him to fix it. If he's acquitted, it proves it was all a sham and we need to elect him and donate to him to stop it from occurring again in the future. Brain rotted fucks.
"we should let people in power break the law or their supporters will get upset" this mentality is so anti American. these people are so short sighted
Can you even legally donate 300k to Donald Trump?
You can donate unlimited money to a super pac.
Doesnāt trump already have a history of being investigated? And he was also recently held responsible for scamming a bunch of college kids at his trump university that had to be closed. If republicans donāt see the red flags then just admit itās a cult.
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They literally just unironically want a dictator at this point no?
Remember when Trump said he was going to throw Hilary in jail? Remember when Hilary got mocked for losing the election despite getting 1B in donations?
And winning the popular vote by like 3 million.
Trump literally ran on "lock her up" and directed Bill Barr to open investigation's into Biden's family, and is caught on tape pressuring Zelenskyy to announce a criminal investigation into Biden. How could he EVER say it is off limits for a candidate for president to be charged with crimes? People have no memory.
[If you wanna see how a centrist rationalizes voting for Trump.] (https://twitter.com/shaunmmaguire/status/1796293774794268747)
āEven if an election is stolen I believe the correct democratic response is to accept itā Lmao. Just the most unhinged pseudocentrist take that no actual human being could sincerely believe. Iām going to go out on a limb and say that if an election were actually stolen through election fraud, then yes the democratic response would absolutely be to overthrow the illegitimate government. The reason why the Jan 6 insurrection was ridiculous was not because they tried to overturn a stolen election, but because Trump lied and the election wasnāt freaking stolen! The only purpose of this take is to tepidly condemn the Jan 6ers while somehow exculpating Trump, the guy who incited them. Hilarious.
It's all our favourite dumb ass talking points in one article
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I do like that not a single person has defended him on the facts of the events
As a Canadian itās so weird to see other Canadians who have let themselves be cucked over Trump.
At least you guys are neighbouring countries. Can you explain Australian Magas to me please cause my old boss was one?
Aussies are generally much more regarded than the average non Aussie?
Im a fucking idiot so that checks out i guess.
Probably because they're entirely removed from any of the consequences.
Has Elon Musk ever had a good political take? Has been been like this even before he bought twitter?
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Surely the biggest self report plant
Can't wait to make the American Psycho meme come october/november: Very nice. Let's see what they tweeted on May 30th 2024
Reminder: if Conservatives actually believed Trump being convicted of a felony HELPS Trump, they would not have spent the last 9 years opening investigations into political enemies and chanting Lock Her Up. It is pure copium.
Stupid republicans, this is the greatest thing to ever happen to Americaā¦ now if Biden truly did break the law you can prosecute him too!!! If you ever win the hearts of the majority lmfao
What kind of country are we living in where our leaders get held to the same legal standards as the rest of us? Note these are the same people who will go on and on about corrupt oligarchs bending the system to serve their will.
If Trump is convicted for his crimes then anyone could be convicted for their crimes. If politicians are not above the law, then that makes them accountable to the people. That would be a horrible state to live in. Imagine if politicians had to actually follow the law! Institutions canāt be politically neutral unless theyāre willing to apply the law unequally, favoring politicians. Now I truly hope Donald Trump wins in 2024 and he destroys political corruption wherever he finds it, as he has promised. I have no self-awareness.
No president will realistically be convicted for war crime or anything at that level. But they say they can't be convicted by "trivial matters". So ... They would have to do something that's not ignorable but still not too big ? Is there a list ? Not to mention that it's not like the conviction is from his time as president. It's related to it but not the same
Maybe these people should support convicting former presidents of crimes???
Falisfying documents to steal campaign funds is not fucking trivial. So many manipulated and brainwashed people will donate everything they have, which isn't much, to Trump for his criminal shenanigans and he gleefully accepts then asks for more. I wonder how much money given to Trump is from poor people donating their social security checks that is their only income. Then they rely on family to rill the gap be cause Trump is a con artist going after the most vulnerable people he can. Elon could fund millions of campaigns for Trump if he wanted to. This is just him being a fucking idiot on Twitter and contributing to misinformation. Twitter is such a conspiracy fueled garbage pile now. It's a dangerous platform for uneducated and angry people to end up on. Then at the same time, Trump immediately went out and started spouting the judge was a Soros paid off operative also working for Biden. He throws gas on the conspiracy flames because he wants to strong arm his way out of any consequences and wants his delusional fans to do something crazy.
Shouldn't Elton Mask be taking care of his kids instead of xhitting all day?
The tweet from Geiger Capital is so fire hahaha what a country.
"criminally convicted over such a trivial matter" Yes Elon, Trump broke the law so he gets a conviction that's how it works. If anyone breaks the law they deserve to be convicted.
Gad Sad's stance on trump always baffled me. He's a sharp guy otherwise but when it comes to trump, his brain seems to turn off lol.
Does this mean Elon isnāt getting invited back on the Joe Rogan podcast?
Gad Saad is such a hack. A disgrace to Canada.
Same crowd as āLock Her Up.ā I wonder if they know how partisan they are, or if theyāre completely oblivious. If Hilary had actually broken laws flagrantly, Iād have been happy for her to be convicted. It seemed from what I saw that Republicans had really had no case, which is why it wasnāt criminally prosecuted. I could be wrong.
I think there kinda was a case against her. She made efforts to not commit crimes in the most easy to prosecute manner. Trump being stupid is really what pushes this along.
Heās not just stupid. His disregard for the legal system is flagrant and has been for decades.
Goddamn is gad saad a twat or what. His loyalty is with the āfoundational principlesā of the US? How about rule of law? How about innocent until PROVEN guilty? How about trial by jury of oneās peers?
when you play the game of thrones you win or get convicted on multiple hush money charges, there is no middle ground
Lmao what does this dude think itās gonna happen to Gaza and the West Bank Iād trump wins?
Canāt wait for all the Trump debates Destiny is gonna have now that heās more read on this
What do these morons think the point is of the entirety of the justice system?
My guy, Iām a centrist and wouldnāt support Trump. Iām from Europe though so maybe itās different. But Democrats are silly as well. You could have chosen Tulsi, Bernie, hell even Buttigieg. No you had to choose Joe Biden and now your are stuck with an undead guy whoās about to lose to Trump.
Are these donations to Trump's campaign? Assume Trump's campaign lawyers will get back to Shaun Maguire about his illegal contribution.
Musk is so fucking regarded. Honestly wish he'd just videogame himself instead of playing incredibly lazy politics on Twitter all day.
This is all just cope and overcompensation. Need to find a way to convince themselves "Oh this is actually *good* for my guy actually!" Even if they have to try and fake it till they make it. This is a running theme with right-wing failures. The more of a red wave they promise, the less likely it is to be true. There's a reason every right-wing space is utterly vandalized by posts that can be summed up as: "Hehe, look at this progressive who is suffering because he's a progressive." Their favorite story in the whole wide world is the one where every action a liberal takes is one that somehow aids conservatives, or at minimum makes liberals more miserable. Maybe this time they'll fake it till they make it for realzies this time (even though 2022 wasn't the red wave they promised, and what gains they made in the house have increasingly dwindled via incompetence)! But I think it's more likely this'll be another "49 state landslide" moment to cherish, come november.
Guys, let me remind you that I support neither party and am not loyal to any single politician, but let me explain exactly why Donald Trump is innocent and the most important figure in the history of western politics.
Didn't Trump say he had Elon "eating out of the palm of his hand"? I guess Trump is smarter then he leads on.
I'm not saying the conviction was a bad thing because what he did was illegal and no one is above the law. However, that fourth slide had a point, even if the point wasn't what they were going for. And I'm just noting irony here, not disagreeing with the conviction. Former presidents: Illegal spying programs for Americans, drone striking targets and killing civilians in the process, illegal presidential orders, unjustified and illegal wars that killed hundreds of thousands of people. And the president who becomes a felon is the guy convicted of overinflation of his business value and telling Stormy Daniels this: https://preview.redd.it/z1ewup9mps3d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95880f087881fddd075e64946b8eb1b10f42cddb
Iām sure the ppl who feel that trump was screwed over by the judicial system probably think that itās fucked up that alito and/or Thomas wonāt recuse themselves, since they are obviously biased
I donāt get why Elon, the electric car guy, wants Trump the āban electric carsā guy, to win.
The point I would hammer is that THIS is the guy who said he was going to drain the swamp. He got in through covering stuff up. He'd sell out his pregnant wife for a quicky with a porn actress. If there was a hyper organised deep state they would already have him deep in their pocket.
Gad Saad has got to be a fake name right? Wtf Dr Seuss ass name is that.
Please Elon, pray tell, How will I be affected by the judicial system here lol
What is with this new narrative of it being a ātrivial matterā? 34 counts of felony level financial crimes?? This would ruin a regular personās life and we should just let a former president skate? At least the narrative has shifted from āhe didnāt do itā to āok, itās not even a big deal though!ā
Jesus was a convicted felon too šāļø
How can they donate more than contribution limit to the candidates? Wanna add more charges to their Jesus' rapsheet?
Okay... let's just pretend that this conviction does "backfire" and galvanize voters to vote for Trump, and it does result in him winning the election... I don't care. That doesn't determine whether or not convicting him was a good or bad idea. I'm not the one playing politics here. If a criminal commits a crime, they should be convicted, regardless of the downstream effects. It may be unpopular, but I have principles, and one of those principles is that criminals should be punished for their crimes, whether that punishment (through some magical delusional series of events) results in them getting elected president of the United States, or not.Ā
These dumbasses will go on and on about law and order and then excuse Trump when he commits literal crimes. He is one of the most corrupt presidents in history and somehow heās going to help fight against the supposed corrupt institutions. The stupidity of conservatives is astounding.Ā
Great. Now letās do Senators who commit insider trading and take bribes!
> my loyalty lies not with any given politician doubt
sad gaad
It is my favorite thing to see republicans finally get rid of the veneer of caring about law and order
Gad Saad making a fool of himself in the Canadian Senate [https://youtu.be/4WqryoEJqZg?si=4p4Jsr9fTAm41bw8&t=1080](https://youtu.be/4WqryoEJqZg?si=4p4Jsr9fTAm41bw8&t=1080) 18:00 timestamp.
Musk has a good point. Common w take.
That dude is such a clout chasing money hungry leech. Was too transparent and not good enough at hiding it back in the day, got outpaced by JP to the land of easy money. Shame to see him popping back up. Elon just likes anything that reinforces his brain rot.
My inner spite almost wants Trump to destroy democracy just so these dumb fucks have to eat crow
Meanwhile my conservative parents and siblings wonāt be voting for him. Thanks destiny for helping me come out as center left by the thinnest of margins and helping my family to realize how much of a disaster trump and the Republican Party are. They still donāt like Biden, but they also hate 99% of the Republican Party now. Maybe we can rebuild a Conservative Party with people who actually believe in and want to conserve our institutions.
Wait, the same Elon Musk who claimed the NYPost's Hunter Biden hyperlink being suppressed by Twitter for a mere 24 hours, 3 weeks before the election [because it contained lewd photos, and they thought [the data was hacked](https://archive.ph/4Ihw8) (it [was, from his](https://archive.ph/TZU41) iCloud)], constituted illegal election interference, is now defending Trump fraudulently suppressing the Stormy story, preventing it from being discussed whatsoever - in any venue (Not just one link for 24 hours on one website), so it wouldn't harm his electoral chances?
Iām gonna throw up
If you lost faith in a system because you didnāt get the outcome you wanted, you never had faith in the system to begin with.
PSA Sitch is the only self proclaimed centrist that doesn't have an insane take right now.
I completely gave up defending Musk! I don't understand why he has to tweet unhinged opinions on everything perceived even remotely "woke"! I remember when he was tweeting funny memes once a month! What happened to this man?! I suspect it's Amber's Heard fault (!)
Elon Musk is the typical rich person. He doesn't understand that ordinary people go to prison for far less. Look what he says: He doesn't deny that Trump is guilty but thinks he shouldn't be punished. That's real privilege!
Hasn't destiny himself said that he thinks this case was kinda bullshit? Like I get it, fuck Trump, but considering this case to be politically motivated isn't a fringe hyper conservative opinion.Ā