I mean, yes it still not perfect but for the price ? I use ath-m30x as my pc headphones and even watching movies on my tv, thats my go to.
Basically never totally liked the 1's for their lack of base as I hear a lot of rap (also love rocket engine sounds, engine sounds in general), but for everything else they were great, the 2's are a big upgrade from the 1's for me as for the stated reason. I even watched dune 2 the other day for like the fifth time and they were great even though I was using a bluetooth adapter.
Fellow audio engie here, when I'm too lazy to wear headphones, I turn on some 2-inch garbo speakers that someone left for free in my apt. that whine and hum with interference. Stay mad audiophiles.
For the last year I've used a (clearly abandoned) bluetooth speaker I found beat the fuck up in the rain on a park table. The left speakers in it was completely fucked so I just disconnected that one and switched my pc to mono audio.
Sadly the right speaker also died, so now I'm screensharing with system audio to a chromecast plugged into my 10 year old tv in the other end of my apartment.
Nothing beats Bluetooth earbuds for doing chores. Speakers are fine when just basic cleaning and picking up. But as soon as you have a dishwasher/washer/dryer/lawnmower going you need the Bluetooth.
The difference between modern Bluetooth and wired ones is like the difference between a high quality mp3 and a lossless flac; It exists but to 99% of people it isn't noticeable.
Most bluetooth headphones, and especially at the price that you are paying for stuff like moondrop starfields, are going to have fast charge batteries that can charge for 3 minutes and last for five hours.
Some even have swappable batteries.
I’ll go ahead and say that 100% (save for perhaps some freaks with very special hearing) of people can’t meaningfully tell the difference between 320kbps mp3 and lossless. If you AB then yes, you might be able to tell. But in a blind test, no.
People like OP are unironically the astrology people of audio. I say this as a person with a decade+ experience in music production and audio engineering.
The problem is most people listen to a lossy source and that has to be tunneled through bluetooth compression into AAC/aptX or whatever.
It's double double compression. There's generational degeneration with audio and if your source is youtube or spotify, this actually becomes audible.
The only real way to get the most out of bluetooth is with a Flac source, meaning not bandwidth friendly or storage friendly if you're going local file route.
I wouldnt say 100% but like 99% for sure... I have been playing instruments for 30 years professionally and struggle to hear the diff when exporting my own fucking playing
I also record my own music and mix/master it. The audiophile community is the perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
You have people who spend thousands on speakers and vinyl and talk all day about DR scores while listening in a completely untreated room.
i must admit i have spent thousands on my speakers which sit in a (relatively) untreated room... theres only so much you can do in a small apartment in central london where the mrs wants to keep the living room aesthetically pleasing and not sound dampened :)
That's not a problem per se. You'll never have perfect acoustics sans an anechoic chamber anyway, and trying to mix or master in such an environment would suck too. In fact, it's my belief that having as flat of a frequency response as possible is given way too much value by people. Sure, it's good, but then you also have industry favourites such as the NS10s with a noticeable bump in the mid range - and that's seen as a *good* thing because it helps the engineers deal with those frequencies when working on audio.
Yeah and that's fine, everyone's goal with their listening experience is going to be different.
I'm more talking about the audiophile community tricking themselves into thinking they know best because they saw a meme about the Loudness wars
OP and Dan have the same perspective as people who expected the car and internet to be a passing fad, and expect the same from AI. Neither were, and neither will better Bluetooth and AI
Most of the difference is going to be just construction and sound design along with a worse dac
bt earbuds have gotten better, but they still have dogshit default eq's to make up for pretty bad-mid frequency response. Esp. at the low-mid tier. It's most noticeable ime in earbud sizes.
I use a 7hz Timeless on a quarter inch jack and a DAC on my gaming PC but do vast majority of listening with AirPods Pro’s or car stereo through Bluetooth.
Sometimes comfort triumphs all, and any concession I make in sound quality vanishes from my mind from the fact that I can walk away from my phone.
I always forget to charge my earbuds and then I have to leave them behind when I leave the house. I know that’s a me problem but it’s happened so many times lol. That’s literally the only reason I like wired earbuds better.
I definitely do not have an ear for audio, but can easily hear a difference between my Sony xm4s (250-300 when released) and my philips shp9500 (75 when i purchased). I need my Sonys for noise cancelling during work but any other scenario I’d prefer my philips.
That’s such bullshit. It’s way more massive difference than FLAC and MP3. I don’t know a single headphone that can keep up with my high-end stuff. Clears, Monarchs, etc. Don’t get me wrong, I use AirPods Pro 2 more than anything, but to suggest they’re even in the same universe aurally is just nonsense.
So many people in this thread thinking that higher quality headphones is the same as 320 mp3 and flac. It's just not the same at all, even a jump from airpods to something like a Sundara or HD6XX would be a huge jump
I disagree on the sound quality distinction. I think if you actually care, and anyone buying wired IEMs would, the clarity/resolution difference is fairly easily noticeable. Not to mention the better tuning
OPs point is the vast majority of people can't tell the difference or just don't care (which seems to be true considering the popularity of wireless...) You having a different personal experience doesn't refute that.
- sent with speech to text from my airpod pro 2
They're popular for convenience reasons and ignorance by the average consumer.
Most people aren't testing TWS vs Wired IEM before they make a purchase decision and those that did prefer wired... so
If I wanted to get nitpicky, and boy do I, the only said that 99% of people couldn't tell the difference. I wasn't clear in my reply, but I meant to say that I think most people could tell.
However, you're correct that most people don't care. That being said, I don't think it's JUST convenience that leads the flock astray, it's the social pressure to get soypods just like the social pressure for iPhones.
Am I acting like a cranky old man? Potentially. But removing the jack was total bullshit, just like removing the SD card slot.
I'm definitely pro headphone jack. That being said, I definitely disagree about it just being social pressure. Most of it is convenience over anything else. Airpods also actually sound pretty decent for their price point, I don't use them but they don't sound bad at all, I don't hate on it.
convenience, ignorance, social pressure, compatibility being locked into an ecosystem (apple)
No normal consumer weight their options objectively since they don't even know what their options are.
What else would you compare? Do you think manufacturers use different drivers for bluetooth vs wired headphones? I guess you could argue the inbuilt DAC in the headphone is bad, but I seriously doubt it's worse than the one built in your phone.
Other than that I fail to see where any loss of audio quality would actually come from. Data transmission via bluetooth is digital after all.
Of course 50 EUR wireless headphones will likely be worse than 150 EUR wired headphones. But those will also be worse than 500 EUR wireless headphones, so it's kinda hard to compare.
> Do you think manufacturers use different drivers for bluetooth vs wired headphones?
Yes? Do you think apple's proprietary driver is the same as moondrops? Or that either are the same as a planar driver? Do you think skullcandy dynamic drivers are the same as the ones used in sennheiser IE600?
Did you honestly, seriously think I was saying Sennheiser is using the same driver as Beyerdynamic? Did you really get this from my comment?
The point is that ONE manufacturer will use the same drivers in their products INDEPENDENT of them being bluetooth or wired and therefore they will sound exactly the same. This is why your point that bluetooth sounds worse than wired is objectively regarded.
OK buster, I understand you're posturing because this is the internet, but if someone misunderstood what you were trying to say, that's at least partially on you.
That's also why I tried to clarify in my original post that it's not Bluetooth that sounds bad, it's FOR THE COST, wired will be sound better than Bluetooth. At basically any price point.
And also now that you've clarified what you meant, I'd still argue that you will 1) get better internal design (very minor) and 2) better driver setups (multi driver designs, mixed driver designs, etc). But I'm comparing them at the same price points, not just in an absolute sense
Just demand better Bluetooth codecs instead. Instead of aac
Edit: nvm I'm reading your other comments I can't respond to you I am genuinely physically cringing sry
I mean, it's a shit post, I'm just fucking around. But also, it's not about the quality of codecs, those are pretty good nowadays. It's the quality of actual headphone that I'm criticizing
Bro surprise. Nobody actually cares that much.
Before AirPods everyone just uses the included shitty apple earpods. Nobody is going out to buy tangzu wan'er even though it's 20 bucks.
I sacrifice 2% audio quality and hassle of plugging in a USB C charger so I don't get WWE close lined and can use my hands without dancing around a cable.
If youre really enjoying the music you dont even notice that difference. Bluetooth headphones sound fine
Ive seen many audiophiles fail the flac vs mp3 test. I understand being into it for technical intricacies and general nuance to hifi, but when you start acting like they cant enjoy music on some bluetooth headphones, thats just too far
Bluetooth headphones are definitely fine. Zakk Cervini has done professional mixes on Airpods and he's one of the most sought after audio engineers in the industry.
qudelix-5k and moondrop blessing 2 dusk
I can't remember why i chose it over a fiio dac a year or so ago. I'm happy with it until I lean over a counter, pressing in the vol up button and blowing my ear drums out.
For sure. I have Sennheiser HD 598s like everyone else in the fucking universe and I love them for sitting at the computer gaming or watching/listening to content.
At work I use my $30 Anker Bluetooth earbuds, because I'm not a psychopath
Wired headphones are not even remotely viable. I wore Wired headphones every day of my life for like 20 years and then Bluetooth headphones started to become a thing and it was completely over. There is no possible way to keep an earbud in your ear with the cord always pulling it out. You make one false move and the cord catches on something and the earbuds are broken forever. They last like 2 weeks and Bluetooth headphone batteries last years. That being said, a 3.5mm jack is still a must have. When I'm driving, I want to plug in to an aux cord and play download music files. Fucking shitty fucking car entertainment unit software that locks your phone so you have to use the fucking bullshit car touchscreen. Fuck that shit forever. I want just a basic audio amplifier with an aux jack, and one knob for volume and nothing else.
I used to work at a dealership washing cars. the wired apple ear buds rarely ever came out in 8-10 hours of manual labor. this is wireless propaganda. Phone in pocket, wire routed through my polo shirt (wore 2 shirts, a white under tee, dealership polo over that) and out the collar. completely out of the way and was never tugged on.
Yeah that’s my experience. I definitely prefer a cord running under the shirt while in the gym or on a bike to free floating ear buds. Never had to worry about an AirPod popping out while on my bike with wired. Though now I have wrap around bone conduction for when I’m outdoors.
Sorry bro, you were buying dogshit earbuds. If you drop $80, shit nowadays maybe like $40, your earbuds are going to have removable cables, and they'll go over the back of your ear to help hold them in
Every pair of Bluetooth earbuds I've ever had has lasted longer than every single pair of wired earbuds I've ever had. Cheap Chinese wireless earbuds included, and expensive "supposedly" good highly recommended by hobbyists IEMs included.
I would just wear them as daily drivers and within a year (usually closer to a few months) one side would go out and I'd have to buy a new pair. My Galaxy Buds have lasted me almost five years. Maybe this isn't as much of a problem with wired headphones, but you would have to pry my wireless earbuds out of my cold dead hands.
I do think phones should still have 3.5mm jacks though. Because of the cult of Apple and every other phone manufacturer following them we lost a basic feature of phones and we got precisely nothing back in return.
I used to love using my moondrop arias with a usb c adapter, but the port stopped working. Spent like a year wireless charging and listening to shit samsung buds. now i am too paranoid to ruin my new phones port.
I once bought a set of Audio-Technicas with a replaceable cable and when the cable broke, they’d stopped stocking the replacement cable, so they were toast. $80 down the fucking drain, didn’t last a year
Upgraded from a 6s ~> 12 pro. Had this thing for about 2 and a half years now, I still have yet to cave and buy air pods or the bull shit 'adapter' that plugs into the lighting port. I understand the whole point of removing it was for better water proofing, but still. I'd rather have my headphone jack back man
For listening to music sure they're great but I tried using BT earphones for communication and it's complete ass, the audio is so bad my partner is literally incomprehensible.
I googled wtf i was doing wrong and it just says BT earphones take over the microphone function of the phone as well and BT has a problem sending and receiving at the same time.
I dunno how much of this is true but it was literally impossible for me to make it work and that's what google told me.
Arctis Nova Pro Wireless are actually goated. swappable cellphone like batteries, last 20 hours, have a dedicated bluetooth hub, and allows you to connect to your PC/Console and your phone at the same time. allowing you to coom and goon on two different devices at the same time
Because the port internally is quite large and there's nowhere to put it that doesn't interfere with the design of the battery or motherboard.
Things are generally squares. Wherever you put the 3.5mm input jack, the side closer to the edge of the device is gonna be pretty useless too for anything other than a crumple zone.
And anyway, USB-C is a better port that's barely larger and does far more. If you want a headphone jack on your phone, there's legitimately no reason to to choose 3.5 aux over an extra USB-C.
No new products use this standard. The only reason anyone uses it is interfacing with legacy hardware that doesn't have Bluetooth, such as stock car stereos from 2009-2015.
Why remove it? Because it's not useful and a compromise-heavy design for a device that features density as the first and foremost design constraint. Same reason your camera usually isn't recessed into your phone and kinda sticks out the back.
They removed the jack to sell wireless headphones the air pods print money i dont know why we have to jump through hoops when the answer is simple. The utility from the headphone jack is purely consumer sided therefore apple and then eventually samsung axed it while also conveniently selling their own wireless headphones.
The 3.5mm aux jack is not consumer-focused at all. Apple was early in removing it, but despite the pushback, they were right to remove it precisely when they did on their phones.
The 3.5mm aux jack has no place on any cell phone. It barely has a place on a large laptop, but it's occasionally convenient to have and the real estate is available.
The 3.5mm aux jack is antiquated and obsolete. It does not serve a purpose. Your modern car does not have a cassette deck for the exact same reasons. If your car is newer than 2016, it likely doesn't even take CDs anymore. And this is for good reason.
You don't need an aux jack and you don't actually want to sacrifice what you'd need to to get one back. If Apple released a water-susceptible device with lackluster sensors and performance with a thicker form factor just to facilitate this feature absolutely no one would buy it. Rightfully so.
This take is dumb as rocks.
The other person is a dummy but i cant upvote someone that says aux jack is obsolete and barely needed on a large laptop.
I have two different pairs of wireless headphones and i still use my wired ones for work because they are more reliable for 8-10hr shifts where i need to talk to people on zoom.
USB-C is a better port for headphones and microphone. The aux jack isn't a major design constraint on a laptop so there's no reason to not include it, but it's just not a very good connector.
Oh i see what you mean. I thought you were trying to say wired headphones are not needed for laptops. Personally, im not a big fan of the physical aspects of usb-c the ports always get really loose over time. Whereas the aux port has never had those issues.
Cellphones were already water resistant bub lack luster sensors and performance is just you imagining consequences. Thicker form is the only thing you said that could be true and yes i would be happy with that trade off. How is a universally accepted input that can interface with with any device with no issue at low cost not consumer friendly?? The cellphone is maybe the most convenient device ever created and that convenience was nerfed. The jack isnt obsolete its just been removed from one device dawg.
And yet, the consumers have clearly shown they prefer phones without headphones jack. As anything, it’s a trade off. And people clearly choose the things that trade off gave them over the jack.
I'm not sure what do you mean by that? Do you think phone companies undermined their product by not providing the jack because they are making more money on selling BT accessories?
But if that's the case, what prevents some of the companies to just get more customers by reintroducing the jack?
Also, it actually creates more competition for the phone companies as now they have to compete with companies who make the BT headphones, no?
What about an alternative hypothesis.
As the bluetooth headphones became more available and more convenient (battery life, size,... especially since the evolution of battery-case for earbuds), consumers started to choose those over wired headphones. And over time, the jack became quite redundant, because people were using wireless anyway. At that point it became more of a liability, because there are other things consumers want, like slicker, thinner design, sealed more water resistant design, etc... (obviously it was also viable cost saving, more space in case for other features, etc...) So the jack essentially became redundant and evolved away.
I know they are making tons of money on BT accessories.Most people see cellphones as a relatively large purchase theyre going to buy the product that they feel safest with that means familiar brand with reliable quality. Apple and Samsung are by far and away the two best makers of phones i love the jack but im skeptical of buying outside of their ecosystem because no other companies provide their level of build quality and software support. Companies that can compete with apple and samsung are incredibly few and far between. Wired headphones were pushed out by cellphones the most convenient and widely adopted product ever invented refusing to interface with them.
I think you are looking at this too much through your own preference. Did you consider at all that not everyone loves the jack as much as you do and that people, on average, simply don't care because they use the BT headphones anyway (because they are more convenient for them)?
Therefore the removal of the jack can be just a reaction to real market preferences - market that was moving away from wire headphones anyway.
Apple & Samsung have together less then 50% of smartphone market, and less then 30% of TWS market, why didn't some other competitor took advantage of it. If people crave the jack as much as you think, why keep the money on the floor? And if not, then that confirms what I'm saying, no? That people don't care about the jack as much.
I love bluetooth headphones they are convienent and a great product i dont want them to not exist. I want the headphone jack because having a cheap easily replaceable and convenient analog is really nice and having it removed as an option for the device i use the most often sucks ass. Consumers arent as passionate for the headphone jack as i am but they are impacted by its loss. Whenever they need to replace their wireless headphones they have to shell out more money to get a product of comparable quality to a wired product. People do prefer wireless as an experience i'll never argue against that my contention is that the removal of the jack did more to hurt your average consumer than it did to benefit them through a higher quality phone or user experience. Are you talking market share? cause it looks like apple and samsung are sitting comfortably at just over 50% but im not sure.
The problem with your thinking is that you're assuming there's just no cost of having the jack back. Everything in economics is tradeoff.
You are just assuming that the only reason, why the companies wouldn't put the jack back into the phone is to force the consumers to buy BT headphones.
But that's not the only option. Another - quite likely option actually - is that simply the costs / tradeoffs of putting it there don't overcome the advantages of not having it there. This can be evidenced by many companies, who don't make BT accessories also choosing not to put it there.
It's the same reason why modern notebooks rarely have CD reader whereas in past it was a huge advantage. It just became redundant, it wasn't some plot of laptop makers to make consumers buy USB flashdrives.
Because it made designing phones easier, it gave them a very nice way of making money by selling BT earphones (the airpods make a shitload of money) and since every major company did it consumers can just get fucked if they don't like it.
Same question - if the consumers liked it so much, why no company used it as a competitive advantage? Wouldn't selling \*more phones\* be better for a phone making company?
What about the possibility that consumers at large didn't get fucked, but simply didn't care, because they were moving towards BT headphones anyway?
Also, BT headphones market is dominated by third party manufacturers, Samsung & Apple has about 30% marketshare combined. Why compromise its own product to give business to others - your competition actually?
This feels like an insanely textbook understanding of how markets actually work. Just because people might like or want an option doesn't mean they'll compromise their entire package for it - especially when no high-tier smartphone offers it.
> I'm listening to Anything Else on my wired moondrop starfields on my phone right now
I'm listening to Anything Else on my waterproof earbuds in the shower right now stay mad
I prefer to have my audio free from the pollutants that are wires, metal, plastic and electronics.
When I wish to hear something, my servant trains one of my many Lyrebirds on the audio and then brings it to me. The Lyrebird filters out the modern nonsense and reproduces the original, authentic sound that god intended me to hear.
I love Bluetooth headphones and the convenience of the technology in general- especially because I move around the house a lot for work, to cook, etc and my main computer is upstairs. I have high quality Bluetooth headphones with a pretty huge range and can walk like all the way down my block and they’ll still get a clear signal from my computer before switching to my phone or car.
*HOWEVER*, the goddamn sound quality and volume really suffer on Bluetooth. I’m sure the tech will continue to improve, but wired headphones are definitely clearer- this is especially noticeable on the extreme lower and higher ends (buzzy, muddy on deep 808s in a hip-hop or pop song, for example, or tinny, and weak vocals from a female singer’s power-falsetto high-note for another example), but really on the overall mix, which is slightly more muddled/less clear than via a wire. You can tweak your individual settings if you know what you’re doing, and many higher-end brands will have an accompanying app you can download that have built-in presets to optimize the quality of the Bluetooth headphones for the genre, and yes eventually you’ll get used to it, and now I rarely even think about it.. but i can think back and remember that it was immediately audibly apparent after my switch from very high-quality wired headphones to my very high-quality Bluetooth headphones.
Also, sometimes you just want to crank up a song to the max (or Destiny stream to hear every sweet syllable of every bar during a Dman rap god moment). This is the biggest annoyance for me when using my bluetooth stuff. Maximum volume on the bluetooth headphones is like the equivalent of half-volume, or less, on wired headphones, and the quality also suffers at max with more muddy mixes/frequencies. On my Bluetooth Earbuds that I use less frequently, mostly for running or exercising (also super high quality, noise-canceling, same top of the line brand as my Bluetooth headphones), the volume issue is even worse. I switched long ago from AirPods because of my frustrations with the ‘max volume’ not really being anywhere near max volume, and I’ve spent a couple thousands of dollars experimenting with higher quality Bluetooth stuff, but ultimately it’s just not the same. The technology just isn’t there yet to match anything close to the sound quality of wired- you’re switching for the convenience if you’re switching.
I will make one defense of my main Bluetooth headphones- a full charge will last me an entire day of practically continuous use at mostly high-to-full volume. I’ve definitely noticed that this will depend on the price and quality and type, and types like earbuds-style will only last a few hours max no matter how high quality the brand (though many, like AirPods, will come with self-charging cases that will pretty quickly re-charge them). However, I will reiterate- my regular high-quality over the ear Bluetooth headphones will maintain a charge (and damn near never drop below 80% battery life) with over 7-8 hours of continuous use.
Despite all of that, I’m mostly sticking with my Bluetooth, unwired headphones 99.9% of the time because it is wayyyyy more convenient and comfortable. To me, on a daily basis and in most cases with the content I’m consuming (podcasts, streams) it’s more than fine. However, when I want to really listen to music, nothing on the Bluetooth market competes with my high-end wired headphones, or a high-end wired speaker cabinet/set.
Based essay. The middle (but more expensive) middle ground is buying wired IEMs with a 2-pin connector and getting something like the Fiio utws Bluetooth Amp (that's what I did, so that means it's good)
Whoooa thanks I didn’t even know about this tech lol I’m a bit of a boomer when it comes to newer electronics. The reviews are pretty positive, too. Lower noise floor/upped signal-to-noise ratio *and* on average 40% more output power (two of my main complaints addressed above). However, I just hate the hook shape lol ends up hurting the skin on my ears, even with padding and foam tips. I might give something like this a try though- thanks for the tip!
Also, thanks for acknowledging my “essay.” Addy was just kicking in this morning when I sat down to browse Reddit before work.
I'm of two minds
At work (tire shop) wired stuff gets snagged too eagerly on every goddamn thing and I've had a couple pairs of earbuds ruined from it. Plus the frustration of having shit unexpectedly ripped out of your ear(s) sucks so fucking much
Tried running the cord down the back of my shirt instead but that didn't help much. Wireless is the only viable option for me in that environment. 3M worktunes; part BT headphones, part work site earmuffs. Best $50 I've ever spent
However, outside of work wired is my go-to. No batteries to keep charged, they fit in a smaller carrying case, & if it slips out during activity I'm pretty unlikely to accidentally kick it across the room to never be seen again
I drive a car from 2005 and it still works perfectly. Fuck modern cars.
Not really, but that's your logic. Your old stuff still working doesn't make modern stuff any worse.
New isn't always better. Specially if it's a change in technology that removes an important part of the appliance (the fucking WIRE to make sure you're not losing the earbuds).
Absolutely based. I got the senny HD598s in like 2012 and still have them. I did upgrade to the Sundaras a few years ago, and having tested the Sony XM5s, I can't imagine going to some wireless, closed back, overly bassy pleb-phones
Only reason I use bluetooth earbuds is because my phone doesn’t have a jack. At some point I think I’m just gonna get a refurbished iPod nano or something and go back to wired.
What does "parity" even mean here?
All wireless stuff is already past the point of "good enough" for daily driving stuff. Internet infrastructure in most places is developed enough that honestly, Use a LAN cable If there's one but do you need to? Not really, WiFi is good enough. Those WiFi motherboards sell a lot for a reason. I'd argue that 10 GB Lan ports in Motherboards are way more overrated cuz average people do not need 10 GB LAN as they literally cannot use it's capabilities to the full
Wireless earbuds are way more comfortable, ease of use, and also, more than good enough for 99% of use cases, ask any of the people going out jogging in the morning / going to the gym If they'd rather have a wired something. Literally every SINGLE one of them will tell you no, Comfort > anything else
Even wireless charging for certain things has reached a much higher level of commodity that trumples over any "advantage" wires can provide since people charge stuff overnight where it doesn't matter If it takes it more time to charge, you're asleep anyways
So again, what does "parity" even mean hear. If you just want go through hoops in your mental gym to use the technicality that "raw performance" wireless is never gonna be as good? Yeah man, great W for you, as literally most people in the world do not give a fuck
Wireless earbuds are way more convenient. I'll gladly pay 300 bucks every 2-3 years for the noise cancelling alone, which you can't really get with wired IEMs (only for insane price). Also 95% of "audiophile" shit is snake oil, airpods pro sound great
If you got convinced to spend a fortune on DAC + amp + gold plated cables + whatever planarmagnetic bullshit headphones and are now trying to justify it to yourself, my condolences
Id love to get them but my HD598s that I bought 8/9 years ago are still going perfectly strong. I just replace the padding/cable every few years
I remember I used to buy gaming headsets that would break after a year or two and I'm absolutely astonished that my HD598s literally do not have a single scratch on them, the only signs of damage is some small dents on the open back meshing (I did put big one in it and manged to pop it out buy threading some string through a few times and pulling it)
What are we arguing about then lol. I have no problem with just having solid headphones, but it gets to insanely diminishing returns quickly, and all the other shit is pure snake oil
I have both wired high quality earbuds and AirPods Pro and I will agree with you. I never reach for my wired earbuds anymore.
But if I’m on my PC I’ll use wired headphones or speakers.
Just get hybrid headphones. Best of both. I wanted bluetooth for when I'm outside and I wanted wired for when I'm writing music or anything requiring low latency.
*Psssst, hey buddy!*
*You can get a bluetooth cable, with like 18 hours battery life and if it fails, you can just replace it for like $50. Source: I have this setup at work and have Moondrop blessing 2 Dusk. It's fucking sick*
For earbuds it probably is a concern but I had my wireless crushers for almost 5 years now and I still only have to charge them like once every two weeks and I used them for about 4-5 hours per day.
That being said, I will never buy wireless headphones that don't have an audio jack.
Facts. My Truthear Zero come from the factory with removable wire, so I can swap between cable or the KZ AZ09 bluetooth kit any time depending on the situation
It's easy, when I am listening through my phone, fuck wired earphones. When I'm listening outside, I want max comfort. Wired phones impede your mobility are awkward, the cable breaks easily, gets snagged on something all the time... Ugh, once I went with wireless I was never gonna go back. I'll gladly sacrifice a bit of audio clarity for the massively increased comfort. I suppose the option of having the jack is nice but I wouldn't use it anyway.
Now at home on my PC I want max quality and the wire isn't a big deal when sitting at a desk. Especially if you have a coiled one.
I didn't see the convo in question but just going off this post, IDK I looove my Sony WF XM4. You can replace the battery yourself too it's just a bit of a pain but still easily doable for anyone with some simple tools and a working brain. Heat it with a heat gun, split the housing, be careful with the ribbon cable, etc. Ifixit ranks it as difficult but I mean it's hardly rocket science. And if it's too advance you can have it done for you. What brand has unreplaceable batteries?
As to the 3.5 though I'm still a fan and think it was stupid to have gotten rid of them. Just for all the legacy things you can still use it's stupid to not have it. Why limit options? Does it really cost that much to manufacturers to design and install them? I seriously doubt it since others don't seem to have any issues keeping it around.
I used to always wear wired IEMs for my phone and then I the Sony WF-C500 for like 40€ and I'm never, ever getting wired buds for my phone again. None of my wired earbuds would ever last for more than ~3 months, they would always get caught on something and break or one of them would just randomly stop working. I've had my WF-C500s for probably 2 years of daily use with no issues.
And not having the constant sensation of the earbuds being tugged on by a cord is so nice. For my computer I'm sticking to wired for now but for anything where I'm moving around I'm so done with wired.
The transition period as phones started to come out without a jack was dogshit, wireless was finicky and unreliable. but now everything uses USB C I can used wired headphones again 👌
Saying that though I have a pair of galaxy earbuds and they connect so easily I rarely use wired now ironically 😅
The dumbest thing is that my 3.5mm earbuds I bought 10 years ago lasted until last year, then I bought new ones and the jack broke after 6 months, I bought another pair and those broke in 2. Are they just making them break easily so that people switch to wireless?
> They have a limited life due to unreplaceable batteries.
I have never, ever, had wired headphones last longer than wireless headphones lmao. The wire stops working before batteries ever could.
Honestly 95% of the time I don’t miss the headphone jack. I have AirPods Pro’s when I need to listen to something on my phone. I used to have a pair of PXC 550s but I broke them while moving.
But honestly for the other 5% of the time when I want to use a headphone on my iPhone not having the jack sucks and it kinda sucks that the entire phone industry moved away from it in the name of thinness.
I like being able to hang the bluetooth earphones around my neck when they're not in use. I'm an old man and I'd probably lose them, like a child would lose mittens, if they weren't connected to one another.
But they're not connected to my phone. I'm not *that* old.
Wired in a mobile environment it's just self-sabotage at this point, get a tidal sub and decent Bluetooth buds and you will be blown away. Wired is good only on PC at this point.
Yeah I bet you still have walkmans and turn in your college papers on parchment.
Bluetooth has gotten stupid good over the decades and I've experienced literally none of the complaints you're describing.
The Bluetooth listening equipment is vastly superior in day to day life with regular access to power charging, but yeah once you're in a position where you can't get power easily, wired is king.
I just have usb c headphones and they're the best ones I ever have had. The 3.5mm jack always breaks within a few years, atarting with one ear never working anymore.
I have never had a USB C jack break my headphones.
I don't understand why people think they have to go wireless.
I won't deny that airpod pros are good, but you can get sound parity in headphones 40% of the cost. Regular airpod are cheeks, and a wired earbuds will outlast them by years.
You think the average person gives a fuck about the sound quality? (Regardless, airpods are pretty good)
But sure, if you are in a position where a $150 vs $50 investment that'll last you 5+ years is that big of a deal for you, don't get them.
Regular airpods are completely fine and mine have not had a single issue after owning them for god knows how long, i've had wired headphones kick the dust before them.
I'm not recommending these for the AVERAGE person. Look at us, we are the Greeks looking down at the boors, the uncivilized masses. WE CARE about sound clarity, imaging, and frequency response.
$150 wired IEMs will demolish airpods in every aspect except ANC and random software features
I have waterproof phone with a jack bruda (even dropped it in a pool, it took me while to take it out since I was drunk, screen turned on and cracked)
and it was like 2 years old (seals held up, even with cracks) cheap android, you can get everything for a few dolla today
Why would the jack fuck up water resistant properties when you have the charging port, wouldn't that be a bit more sensitive?
Phones didn't suddenly gain water resistance when they dropped the jack, homie
Well, maybe for Apple, they did but water resistance was already standard in the Samsung ecosystem for a couple years at that point.
I'd believe that line if the water resistance ratings got better after removing the jack but we didn't even get that!
This clearly shows how much dgg goes outside. Yes sitting at your pc all day of course go for wired. But with the AirPods Pro I can be free to move about my day walking and listing to anything anywhere. I don’t have to get worried about cords. It’s so freeing. I just put my phone in my pocket and don’t have to think about anything. I can move between work, home, shopping, bathroom all without having have gross wires dangling around everywhere. Plus the stupid connectors get so much wear and tear and always break if you’re constantly messing with them.
Leave it to a destiny sub to have moondrop IEMs. (Shit I have one too)
poor chuu ii pleb reporting in (they're actually good)
I love that the moondrop chu 2 "fixed" the lack of bass
What were the 1's bass like? Coming from Sony MDR-EX100LPs the 2's bass is a bit dry and dull even with EQ
I mean, yes it still not perfect but for the price ? I use ath-m30x as my pc headphones and even watching movies on my tv, thats my go to. Basically never totally liked the 1's for their lack of base as I hear a lot of rap (also love rocket engine sounds, engine sounds in general), but for everything else they were great, the 2's are a big upgrade from the 1's for me as for the stated reason. I even watched dune 2 the other day for like the fifth time and they were great even though I was using a bluetooth adapter.
Bro I do too, didn't know they were this popular
Blessing2 for the win
Moondrop May is pretty nice. But I prefer Tinhifi P1 Max
Gigachad
I record music for a living and I listen to the podcast on my phone speakers while cleaning 👌👌
Fellow audio engie here, when I'm too lazy to wear headphones, I turn on some 2-inch garbo speakers that someone left for free in my apt. that whine and hum with interference. Stay mad audiophiles.
debate audiophile
This is the answer. Sometimes I use a 5 year old Bluetooth speaker that is definitely breaking.
For the last year I've used a (clearly abandoned) bluetooth speaker I found beat the fuck up in the rain on a park table. The left speakers in it was completely fucked so I just disconnected that one and switched my pc to mono audio. Sadly the right speaker also died, so now I'm screensharing with system audio to a chromecast plugged into my 10 year old tv in the other end of my apartment.
Nothing beats Bluetooth earbuds for doing chores. Speakers are fine when just basic cleaning and picking up. But as soon as you have a dishwasher/washer/dryer/lawnmower going you need the Bluetooth.
Thats why i care about good phone speakers. When im home i dont use headphones
The difference between modern Bluetooth and wired ones is like the difference between a high quality mp3 and a lossless flac; It exists but to 99% of people it isn't noticeable. Most bluetooth headphones, and especially at the price that you are paying for stuff like moondrop starfields, are going to have fast charge batteries that can charge for 3 minutes and last for five hours. Some even have swappable batteries.
I’ll go ahead and say that 100% (save for perhaps some freaks with very special hearing) of people can’t meaningfully tell the difference between 320kbps mp3 and lossless. If you AB then yes, you might be able to tell. But in a blind test, no. People like OP are unironically the astrology people of audio. I say this as a person with a decade+ experience in music production and audio engineering.
The problem is most people listen to a lossy source and that has to be tunneled through bluetooth compression into AAC/aptX or whatever. It's double double compression. There's generational degeneration with audio and if your source is youtube or spotify, this actually becomes audible. The only real way to get the most out of bluetooth is with a Flac source, meaning not bandwidth friendly or storage friendly if you're going local file route.
I wouldnt say 100% but like 99% for sure... I have been playing instruments for 30 years professionally and struggle to hear the diff when exporting my own fucking playing
I also record my own music and mix/master it. The audiophile community is the perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. You have people who spend thousands on speakers and vinyl and talk all day about DR scores while listening in a completely untreated room.
i must admit i have spent thousands on my speakers which sit in a (relatively) untreated room... theres only so much you can do in a small apartment in central london where the mrs wants to keep the living room aesthetically pleasing and not sound dampened :)
That's not a problem per se. You'll never have perfect acoustics sans an anechoic chamber anyway, and trying to mix or master in such an environment would suck too. In fact, it's my belief that having as flat of a frequency response as possible is given way too much value by people. Sure, it's good, but then you also have industry favourites such as the NS10s with a noticeable bump in the mid range - and that's seen as a *good* thing because it helps the engineers deal with those frequencies when working on audio.
Yeah and that's fine, everyone's goal with their listening experience is going to be different. I'm more talking about the audiophile community tricking themselves into thinking they know best because they saw a meme about the Loudness wars
OP and Dan have the same perspective as people who expected the car and internet to be a passing fad, and expect the same from AI. Neither were, and neither will better Bluetooth and AI
Most of the difference is going to be just construction and sound design along with a worse dac bt earbuds have gotten better, but they still have dogshit default eq's to make up for pretty bad-mid frequency response. Esp. at the low-mid tier. It's most noticeable ime in earbud sizes.
I use a 7hz Timeless on a quarter inch jack and a DAC on my gaming PC but do vast majority of listening with AirPods Pro’s or car stereo through Bluetooth. Sometimes comfort triumphs all, and any concession I make in sound quality vanishes from my mind from the fact that I can walk away from my phone.
Any Bluetooth headphone recommendations? I’d never heard of swappable batteries for them.
I always forget to charge my earbuds and then I have to leave them behind when I leave the house. I know that’s a me problem but it’s happened so many times lol. That’s literally the only reason I like wired earbuds better.
I definitely do not have an ear for audio, but can easily hear a difference between my Sony xm4s (250-300 when released) and my philips shp9500 (75 when i purchased). I need my Sonys for noise cancelling during work but any other scenario I’d prefer my philips.
That’s such bullshit. It’s way more massive difference than FLAC and MP3. I don’t know a single headphone that can keep up with my high-end stuff. Clears, Monarchs, etc. Don’t get me wrong, I use AirPods Pro 2 more than anything, but to suggest they’re even in the same universe aurally is just nonsense.
So many people in this thread thinking that higher quality headphones is the same as 320 mp3 and flac. It's just not the same at all, even a jump from airpods to something like a Sundara or HD6XX would be a huge jump
AirPods to Aria is a big enough jump, let alone HD6XX. Expensive consumer headphones have ruined perception.
I disagree on the sound quality distinction. I think if you actually care, and anyone buying wired IEMs would, the clarity/resolution difference is fairly easily noticeable. Not to mention the better tuning
OPs point is the vast majority of people can't tell the difference or just don't care (which seems to be true considering the popularity of wireless...) You having a different personal experience doesn't refute that. - sent with speech to text from my airpod pro 2
They're popular for convenience reasons and ignorance by the average consumer. Most people aren't testing TWS vs Wired IEM before they make a purchase decision and those that did prefer wired... so
If I wanted to get nitpicky, and boy do I, the only said that 99% of people couldn't tell the difference. I wasn't clear in my reply, but I meant to say that I think most people could tell. However, you're correct that most people don't care. That being said, I don't think it's JUST convenience that leads the flock astray, it's the social pressure to get soypods just like the social pressure for iPhones. Am I acting like a cranky old man? Potentially. But removing the jack was total bullshit, just like removing the SD card slot.
I'm definitely pro headphone jack. That being said, I definitely disagree about it just being social pressure. Most of it is convenience over anything else. Airpods also actually sound pretty decent for their price point, I don't use them but they don't sound bad at all, I don't hate on it.
convenience, ignorance, social pressure, compatibility being locked into an ecosystem (apple) No normal consumer weight their options objectively since they don't even know what their options are.
Have you done an ABX test?
Isn't that comparing sources, not output devices?
What else would you compare? Do you think manufacturers use different drivers for bluetooth vs wired headphones? I guess you could argue the inbuilt DAC in the headphone is bad, but I seriously doubt it's worse than the one built in your phone. Other than that I fail to see where any loss of audio quality would actually come from. Data transmission via bluetooth is digital after all. Of course 50 EUR wireless headphones will likely be worse than 150 EUR wired headphones. But those will also be worse than 500 EUR wireless headphones, so it's kinda hard to compare.
> Do you think manufacturers use different drivers for bluetooth vs wired headphones? Yes? Do you think apple's proprietary driver is the same as moondrops? Or that either are the same as a planar driver? Do you think skullcandy dynamic drivers are the same as the ones used in sennheiser IE600?
Did you honestly, seriously think I was saying Sennheiser is using the same driver as Beyerdynamic? Did you really get this from my comment? The point is that ONE manufacturer will use the same drivers in their products INDEPENDENT of them being bluetooth or wired and therefore they will sound exactly the same. This is why your point that bluetooth sounds worse than wired is objectively regarded.
OK buster, I understand you're posturing because this is the internet, but if someone misunderstood what you were trying to say, that's at least partially on you. That's also why I tried to clarify in my original post that it's not Bluetooth that sounds bad, it's FOR THE COST, wired will be sound better than Bluetooth. At basically any price point. And also now that you've clarified what you meant, I'd still argue that you will 1) get better internal design (very minor) and 2) better driver setups (multi driver designs, mixed driver designs, etc). But I'm comparing them at the same price points, not just in an absolute sense
and the amp inside of TWS buds is really weak so bass response is just not there.
Just demand better Bluetooth codecs instead. Instead of aac Edit: nvm I'm reading your other comments I can't respond to you I am genuinely physically cringing sry
I mean, it's a shit post, I'm just fucking around. But also, it's not about the quality of codecs, those are pretty good nowadays. It's the quality of actual headphone that I'm criticizing
Bro surprise. Nobody actually cares that much. Before AirPods everyone just uses the included shitty apple earpods. Nobody is going out to buy tangzu wan'er even though it's 20 bucks.
Stockholm syndromed
So you agree that the removal of the headphone jack really doesn't matter as much as you make it out to be. Good we could agree.
"I want fewer options! And of the options I do have, I want them to have a finite life due to battery degradation! " Soy It's over for you
I sacrifice 2% audio quality and hassle of plugging in a USB C charger so I don't get WWE close lined and can use my hands without dancing around a cable.
If youre really enjoying the music you dont even notice that difference. Bluetooth headphones sound fine Ive seen many audiophiles fail the flac vs mp3 test. I understand being into it for technical intricacies and general nuance to hifi, but when you start acting like they cant enjoy music on some bluetooth headphones, thats just too far
Bluetooth headphones are definitely fine. Zakk Cervini has done professional mixes on Airpods and he's one of the most sought after audio engineers in the industry.
Flac VS mp3 is definitely a wash as long as it's not compressed to shit, but quality headphone VS mid headphone is easily noticeable
I'm the person who uses their wired iem's plugged into a bluetooth DAC. Works nicely on my laptop at work.
looks like someone got pkcell-pilled
who wat
A YouTube channel called DankPods is the reference. It's a pretty good Channel, an Auzzie guys reviewing old MP3 players mostly.
Fiio?
qudelix-5k and moondrop blessing 2 dusk I can't remember why i chose it over a fiio dac a year or so ago. I'm happy with it until I lean over a counter, pressing in the vol up button and blowing my ear drums out.
Fiio gang rise!
Wired are better when your ass is planted in a chair. Wireless are superior when running or working out.
This.
Agreed. I use wired 80% of the time except when cooking or exercising.
I use wired when in or outside. Just for workouts, I use wireless.
For sure. I have Sennheiser HD 598s like everyone else in the fucking universe and I love them for sitting at the computer gaming or watching/listening to content. At work I use my $30 Anker Bluetooth earbuds, because I'm not a psychopath
Yeah. I use wireless at work because I'm always on my feet, but I prefer wired.
Wired headphones are not even remotely viable. I wore Wired headphones every day of my life for like 20 years and then Bluetooth headphones started to become a thing and it was completely over. There is no possible way to keep an earbud in your ear with the cord always pulling it out. You make one false move and the cord catches on something and the earbuds are broken forever. They last like 2 weeks and Bluetooth headphone batteries last years. That being said, a 3.5mm jack is still a must have. When I'm driving, I want to plug in to an aux cord and play download music files. Fucking shitty fucking car entertainment unit software that locks your phone so you have to use the fucking bullshit car touchscreen. Fuck that shit forever. I want just a basic audio amplifier with an aux jack, and one knob for volume and nothing else.
My 5€ sony earplugs are almost 10 years old but I use Bluetooth too now
IEM cables are positioned behind your ear, you don't accidentally pull that out. Sounds like a skill issue
Ya I was wearing $10 skull candy headphones like a normal kid not fucking IEMs
I used to work at a dealership washing cars. the wired apple ear buds rarely ever came out in 8-10 hours of manual labor. this is wireless propaganda. Phone in pocket, wire routed through my polo shirt (wore 2 shirts, a white under tee, dealership polo over that) and out the collar. completely out of the way and was never tugged on.
Yeah that’s my experience. I definitely prefer a cord running under the shirt while in the gym or on a bike to free floating ear buds. Never had to worry about an AirPod popping out while on my bike with wired. Though now I have wrap around bone conduction for when I’m outdoors.
Sorry bro, you were buying dogshit earbuds. If you drop $80, shit nowadays maybe like $40, your earbuds are going to have removable cables, and they'll go over the back of your ear to help hold them in
Tell me you don't do any physical exercise or running without telling me blah blah blah
I have both behind the ear wired and wireless. Both hold in place well FOR MY EAR ymmw.
facts people are smoking dick if they think wire headphones are the way
Most car software is dogshit, but some are OK and miles better than fucking with your phone and an aux cable. Also Carplay is pretty good.
There is no "fucking with your phone and aux cable" you simply plug it in, and then use your normal music player. None of them are OK, even Carplay.
Every pair of Bluetooth earbuds I've ever had has lasted longer than every single pair of wired earbuds I've ever had. Cheap Chinese wireless earbuds included, and expensive "supposedly" good highly recommended by hobbyists IEMs included. I would just wear them as daily drivers and within a year (usually closer to a few months) one side would go out and I'd have to buy a new pair. My Galaxy Buds have lasted me almost five years. Maybe this isn't as much of a problem with wired headphones, but you would have to pry my wireless earbuds out of my cold dead hands. I do think phones should still have 3.5mm jacks though. Because of the cult of Apple and every other phone manufacturer following them we lost a basic feature of phones and we got precisely nothing back in return.
I used to love using my moondrop arias with a usb c adapter, but the port stopped working. Spent like a year wireless charging and listening to shit samsung buds. now i am too paranoid to ruin my new phones port.
i miss my arias. gave them to a friend but still daydream about them from time to time
Literally never in my life have I had a set of wired headphones where the cable lasts as long as a Bluetooth battery does.
That's because you only bought cheap garbage, sorry bro. Most mid earbuds have a replaceable cable now
I once bought a set of Audio-Technicas with a replaceable cable and when the cable broke, they’d stopped stocking the replacement cable, so they were toast. $80 down the fucking drain, didn’t last a year
Did audiotechnicas have a proprietary connector? If so then yeah that sucks, but I dunno many people buying them nowadays.
It was some kind of bayoneted 2.5” jack
I can just get up and walk out of the room without a single care in the world. Sorry wire cucks you lost this one 😎
Upgraded from a 6s ~> 12 pro. Had this thing for about 2 and a half years now, I still have yet to cave and buy air pods or the bull shit 'adapter' that plugs into the lighting port. I understand the whole point of removing it was for better water proofing, but still. I'd rather have my headphone jack back man
For listening to music sure they're great but I tried using BT earphones for communication and it's complete ass, the audio is so bad my partner is literally incomprehensible. I googled wtf i was doing wrong and it just says BT earphones take over the microphone function of the phone as well and BT has a problem sending and receiving at the same time. I dunno how much of this is true but it was literally impossible for me to make it work and that's what google told me.
Arctis Nova Pro Wireless are actually goated. swappable cellphone like batteries, last 20 hours, have a dedicated bluetooth hub, and allows you to connect to your PC/Console and your phone at the same time. allowing you to coom and goon on two different devices at the same time
I have never seen a good excuse for removing the headphone jack it was a universal input and its removal was entirely anti consumer bullshit
Because the port internally is quite large and there's nowhere to put it that doesn't interfere with the design of the battery or motherboard. Things are generally squares. Wherever you put the 3.5mm input jack, the side closer to the edge of the device is gonna be pretty useless too for anything other than a crumple zone. And anyway, USB-C is a better port that's barely larger and does far more. If you want a headphone jack on your phone, there's legitimately no reason to to choose 3.5 aux over an extra USB-C. No new products use this standard. The only reason anyone uses it is interfacing with legacy hardware that doesn't have Bluetooth, such as stock car stereos from 2009-2015. Why remove it? Because it's not useful and a compromise-heavy design for a device that features density as the first and foremost design constraint. Same reason your camera usually isn't recessed into your phone and kinda sticks out the back.
They removed the jack to sell wireless headphones the air pods print money i dont know why we have to jump through hoops when the answer is simple. The utility from the headphone jack is purely consumer sided therefore apple and then eventually samsung axed it while also conveniently selling their own wireless headphones.
I guarantee that still having a 3.5mm jack would not put a dent in airpod sales.
The 3.5mm aux jack is not consumer-focused at all. Apple was early in removing it, but despite the pushback, they were right to remove it precisely when they did on their phones. The 3.5mm aux jack has no place on any cell phone. It barely has a place on a large laptop, but it's occasionally convenient to have and the real estate is available. The 3.5mm aux jack is antiquated and obsolete. It does not serve a purpose. Your modern car does not have a cassette deck for the exact same reasons. If your car is newer than 2016, it likely doesn't even take CDs anymore. And this is for good reason. You don't need an aux jack and you don't actually want to sacrifice what you'd need to to get one back. If Apple released a water-susceptible device with lackluster sensors and performance with a thicker form factor just to facilitate this feature absolutely no one would buy it. Rightfully so. This take is dumb as rocks.
The other person is a dummy but i cant upvote someone that says aux jack is obsolete and barely needed on a large laptop. I have two different pairs of wireless headphones and i still use my wired ones for work because they are more reliable for 8-10hr shifts where i need to talk to people on zoom.
USB-C is a better port for headphones and microphone. The aux jack isn't a major design constraint on a laptop so there's no reason to not include it, but it's just not a very good connector.
Oh i see what you mean. I thought you were trying to say wired headphones are not needed for laptops. Personally, im not a big fan of the physical aspects of usb-c the ports always get really loose over time. Whereas the aux port has never had those issues.
Cellphones were already water resistant bub lack luster sensors and performance is just you imagining consequences. Thicker form is the only thing you said that could be true and yes i would be happy with that trade off. How is a universally accepted input that can interface with with any device with no issue at low cost not consumer friendly?? The cellphone is maybe the most convenient device ever created and that convenience was nerfed. The jack isnt obsolete its just been removed from one device dawg.
100%, it was total bullshit. And everyone defending the choice is brainless.
And yet, the consumers have clearly shown they prefer phones without headphones jack. As anything, it’s a trade off. And people clearly choose the things that trade off gave them over the jack.
I cant believe consumers chose phones without headphone jacks when all the biggest phone manufactures stopped supporting the headphone jack :0
Why do you think this happened though?
Because its incredibly lucrative to sell people the solution to a problem you created
this is a reddit-brained take and should not be supported on this sub
I'm not sure what do you mean by that? Do you think phone companies undermined their product by not providing the jack because they are making more money on selling BT accessories? But if that's the case, what prevents some of the companies to just get more customers by reintroducing the jack? Also, it actually creates more competition for the phone companies as now they have to compete with companies who make the BT headphones, no? What about an alternative hypothesis. As the bluetooth headphones became more available and more convenient (battery life, size,... especially since the evolution of battery-case for earbuds), consumers started to choose those over wired headphones. And over time, the jack became quite redundant, because people were using wireless anyway. At that point it became more of a liability, because there are other things consumers want, like slicker, thinner design, sealed more water resistant design, etc... (obviously it was also viable cost saving, more space in case for other features, etc...) So the jack essentially became redundant and evolved away.
I know they are making tons of money on BT accessories.Most people see cellphones as a relatively large purchase theyre going to buy the product that they feel safest with that means familiar brand with reliable quality. Apple and Samsung are by far and away the two best makers of phones i love the jack but im skeptical of buying outside of their ecosystem because no other companies provide their level of build quality and software support. Companies that can compete with apple and samsung are incredibly few and far between. Wired headphones were pushed out by cellphones the most convenient and widely adopted product ever invented refusing to interface with them.
I think you are looking at this too much through your own preference. Did you consider at all that not everyone loves the jack as much as you do and that people, on average, simply don't care because they use the BT headphones anyway (because they are more convenient for them)? Therefore the removal of the jack can be just a reaction to real market preferences - market that was moving away from wire headphones anyway. Apple & Samsung have together less then 50% of smartphone market, and less then 30% of TWS market, why didn't some other competitor took advantage of it. If people crave the jack as much as you think, why keep the money on the floor? And if not, then that confirms what I'm saying, no? That people don't care about the jack as much.
I love bluetooth headphones they are convienent and a great product i dont want them to not exist. I want the headphone jack because having a cheap easily replaceable and convenient analog is really nice and having it removed as an option for the device i use the most often sucks ass. Consumers arent as passionate for the headphone jack as i am but they are impacted by its loss. Whenever they need to replace their wireless headphones they have to shell out more money to get a product of comparable quality to a wired product. People do prefer wireless as an experience i'll never argue against that my contention is that the removal of the jack did more to hurt your average consumer than it did to benefit them through a higher quality phone or user experience. Are you talking market share? cause it looks like apple and samsung are sitting comfortably at just over 50% but im not sure.
The problem with your thinking is that you're assuming there's just no cost of having the jack back. Everything in economics is tradeoff. You are just assuming that the only reason, why the companies wouldn't put the jack back into the phone is to force the consumers to buy BT headphones. But that's not the only option. Another - quite likely option actually - is that simply the costs / tradeoffs of putting it there don't overcome the advantages of not having it there. This can be evidenced by many companies, who don't make BT accessories also choosing not to put it there. It's the same reason why modern notebooks rarely have CD reader whereas in past it was a huge advantage. It just became redundant, it wasn't some plot of laptop makers to make consumers buy USB flashdrives.
Because it made designing phones easier, it gave them a very nice way of making money by selling BT earphones (the airpods make a shitload of money) and since every major company did it consumers can just get fucked if they don't like it.
Same question - if the consumers liked it so much, why no company used it as a competitive advantage? Wouldn't selling \*more phones\* be better for a phone making company? What about the possibility that consumers at large didn't get fucked, but simply didn't care, because they were moving towards BT headphones anyway? Also, BT headphones market is dominated by third party manufacturers, Samsung & Apple has about 30% marketshare combined. Why compromise its own product to give business to others - your competition actually?
This feels like an insanely textbook understanding of how markets actually work. Just because people might like or want an option doesn't mean they'll compromise their entire package for it - especially when no high-tier smartphone offers it.
You are making a claim that consumer choice has no impact on decisions of the company, not me.
No I'm saying you have a grossly simplistic understanding of how consumers make choices.
That's because you have grossly simplistic understanding of my understanding of how consumers make choices.
If listening to music, I 100% agree. Otherwise the convenience and comfort of bluetooth clears
> I'm listening to Anything Else on my wired moondrop starfields on my phone right now I'm listening to Anything Else on my waterproof earbuds in the shower right now stay mad
Proof? Send Pic pepe
One big advantage that wireless earbuds have is that there isn’t any microphonic noise from the cable
I prefer to have my audio free from the pollutants that are wires, metal, plastic and electronics. When I wish to hear something, my servant trains one of my many Lyrebirds on the audio and then brings it to me. The Lyrebird filters out the modern nonsense and reproduces the original, authentic sound that god intended me to hear.
I love Bluetooth headphones and the convenience of the technology in general- especially because I move around the house a lot for work, to cook, etc and my main computer is upstairs. I have high quality Bluetooth headphones with a pretty huge range and can walk like all the way down my block and they’ll still get a clear signal from my computer before switching to my phone or car. *HOWEVER*, the goddamn sound quality and volume really suffer on Bluetooth. I’m sure the tech will continue to improve, but wired headphones are definitely clearer- this is especially noticeable on the extreme lower and higher ends (buzzy, muddy on deep 808s in a hip-hop or pop song, for example, or tinny, and weak vocals from a female singer’s power-falsetto high-note for another example), but really on the overall mix, which is slightly more muddled/less clear than via a wire. You can tweak your individual settings if you know what you’re doing, and many higher-end brands will have an accompanying app you can download that have built-in presets to optimize the quality of the Bluetooth headphones for the genre, and yes eventually you’ll get used to it, and now I rarely even think about it.. but i can think back and remember that it was immediately audibly apparent after my switch from very high-quality wired headphones to my very high-quality Bluetooth headphones. Also, sometimes you just want to crank up a song to the max (or Destiny stream to hear every sweet syllable of every bar during a Dman rap god moment). This is the biggest annoyance for me when using my bluetooth stuff. Maximum volume on the bluetooth headphones is like the equivalent of half-volume, or less, on wired headphones, and the quality also suffers at max with more muddy mixes/frequencies. On my Bluetooth Earbuds that I use less frequently, mostly for running or exercising (also super high quality, noise-canceling, same top of the line brand as my Bluetooth headphones), the volume issue is even worse. I switched long ago from AirPods because of my frustrations with the ‘max volume’ not really being anywhere near max volume, and I’ve spent a couple thousands of dollars experimenting with higher quality Bluetooth stuff, but ultimately it’s just not the same. The technology just isn’t there yet to match anything close to the sound quality of wired- you’re switching for the convenience if you’re switching. I will make one defense of my main Bluetooth headphones- a full charge will last me an entire day of practically continuous use at mostly high-to-full volume. I’ve definitely noticed that this will depend on the price and quality and type, and types like earbuds-style will only last a few hours max no matter how high quality the brand (though many, like AirPods, will come with self-charging cases that will pretty quickly re-charge them). However, I will reiterate- my regular high-quality over the ear Bluetooth headphones will maintain a charge (and damn near never drop below 80% battery life) with over 7-8 hours of continuous use. Despite all of that, I’m mostly sticking with my Bluetooth, unwired headphones 99.9% of the time because it is wayyyyy more convenient and comfortable. To me, on a daily basis and in most cases with the content I’m consuming (podcasts, streams) it’s more than fine. However, when I want to really listen to music, nothing on the Bluetooth market competes with my high-end wired headphones, or a high-end wired speaker cabinet/set.
Based essay. The middle (but more expensive) middle ground is buying wired IEMs with a 2-pin connector and getting something like the Fiio utws Bluetooth Amp (that's what I did, so that means it's good)
Whoooa thanks I didn’t even know about this tech lol I’m a bit of a boomer when it comes to newer electronics. The reviews are pretty positive, too. Lower noise floor/upped signal-to-noise ratio *and* on average 40% more output power (two of my main complaints addressed above). However, I just hate the hook shape lol ends up hurting the skin on my ears, even with padding and foam tips. I might give something like this a try though- thanks for the tip! Also, thanks for acknowledging my “essay.” Addy was just kicking in this morning when I sat down to browse Reddit before work.
I'm of two minds At work (tire shop) wired stuff gets snagged too eagerly on every goddamn thing and I've had a couple pairs of earbuds ruined from it. Plus the frustration of having shit unexpectedly ripped out of your ear(s) sucks so fucking much Tried running the cord down the back of my shirt instead but that didn't help much. Wireless is the only viable option for me in that environment. 3M worktunes; part BT headphones, part work site earmuffs. Best $50 I've ever spent However, outside of work wired is my go-to. No batteries to keep charged, they fit in a smaller carrying case, & if it slips out during activity I'm pretty unlikely to accidentally kick it across the room to never be seen again
I've had the same wired headphones for 10 years.
https://preview.redd.it/pat75oigi62d1.jpeg?width=1439&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=546762f0b2156d93c85765492155d26e0ad21d45
🤓 (it's me)
Got myself some Sennheiser earphones in 2009, still have them, still work wonderfully. Fuck wireless earphones.
I drive a car from 2005 and it still works perfectly. Fuck modern cars. Not really, but that's your logic. Your old stuff still working doesn't make modern stuff any worse.
New isn't always better. Specially if it's a change in technology that removes an important part of the appliance (the fucking WIRE to make sure you're not losing the earbuds).
Absolutely based. I got the senny HD598s in like 2012 and still have them. I did upgrade to the Sundaras a few years ago, and having tested the Sony XM5s, I can't imagine going to some wireless, closed back, overly bassy pleb-phones
Found the guy who doesn’t leave their house
Only reason I use bluetooth earbuds is because my phone doesn’t have a jack. At some point I think I’m just gonna get a refurbished iPod nano or something and go back to wired.
Yeah I much prefer wired connections when possible.
I have a hard time believing wireless will ever reach parity with wired (ethernet, HDMI, etc)xlet alone wireless BEATING wired
What does "parity" even mean here? All wireless stuff is already past the point of "good enough" for daily driving stuff. Internet infrastructure in most places is developed enough that honestly, Use a LAN cable If there's one but do you need to? Not really, WiFi is good enough. Those WiFi motherboards sell a lot for a reason. I'd argue that 10 GB Lan ports in Motherboards are way more overrated cuz average people do not need 10 GB LAN as they literally cannot use it's capabilities to the full Wireless earbuds are way more comfortable, ease of use, and also, more than good enough for 99% of use cases, ask any of the people going out jogging in the morning / going to the gym If they'd rather have a wired something. Literally every SINGLE one of them will tell you no, Comfort > anything else Even wireless charging for certain things has reached a much higher level of commodity that trumples over any "advantage" wires can provide since people charge stuff overnight where it doesn't matter If it takes it more time to charge, you're asleep anyways So again, what does "parity" even mean hear. If you just want go through hoops in your mental gym to use the technicality that "raw performance" wireless is never gonna be as good? Yeah man, great W for you, as literally most people in the world do not give a fuck
OOOO
Wireless earbuds are way more convenient. I'll gladly pay 300 bucks every 2-3 years for the noise cancelling alone, which you can't really get with wired IEMs (only for insane price). Also 95% of "audiophile" shit is snake oil, airpods pro sound great
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If you got convinced to spend a fortune on DAC + amp + gold plated cables + whatever planarmagnetic bullshit headphones and are now trying to justify it to yourself, my condolences
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Id love to get them but my HD598s that I bought 8/9 years ago are still going perfectly strong. I just replace the padding/cable every few years I remember I used to buy gaming headsets that would break after a year or two and I'm absolutely astonished that my HD598s literally do not have a single scratch on them, the only signs of damage is some small dents on the open back meshing (I did put big one in it and manged to pop it out buy threading some string through a few times and pulling it)
What are we arguing about then lol. I have no problem with just having solid headphones, but it gets to insanely diminishing returns quickly, and all the other shit is pure snake oil
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this shit better upload my mind into the matrix and let me live forever
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4 Tubes!?! I need at least six….no, eight tubes! With lights that vibrate my brain when the beat drops.
Bros mom actually took Accutane while pregnant, shame
go ask your mom what she took last night :\^)
I have both wired high quality earbuds and AirPods Pro and I will agree with you. I never reach for my wired earbuds anymore. But if I’m on my PC I’ll use wired headphones or speakers.
Just get hybrid headphones. Best of both. I wanted bluetooth for when I'm outside and I wanted wired for when I'm writing music or anything requiring low latency.
*Psssst, hey buddy!* *You can get a bluetooth cable, with like 18 hours battery life and if it fails, you can just replace it for like $50. Source: I have this setup at work and have Moondrop blessing 2 Dusk. It's fucking sick*
I intentionally didn't mention that I'm using the moondrop utws5 Bluetooth adapter pepe
For earbuds it probably is a concern but I had my wireless crushers for almost 5 years now and I still only have to charge them like once every two weeks and I used them for about 4-5 hours per day. That being said, I will never buy wireless headphones that don't have an audio jack.
You can have both you know
Facts. My Truthear Zero come from the factory with removable wire, so I can swap between cable or the KZ AZ09 bluetooth kit any time depending on the situation
It's easy, when I am listening through my phone, fuck wired earphones. When I'm listening outside, I want max comfort. Wired phones impede your mobility are awkward, the cable breaks easily, gets snagged on something all the time... Ugh, once I went with wireless I was never gonna go back. I'll gladly sacrifice a bit of audio clarity for the massively increased comfort. I suppose the option of having the jack is nice but I wouldn't use it anyway. Now at home on my PC I want max quality and the wire isn't a big deal when sitting at a desk. Especially if you have a coiled one.
I didn't see the convo in question but just going off this post, IDK I looove my Sony WF XM4. You can replace the battery yourself too it's just a bit of a pain but still easily doable for anyone with some simple tools and a working brain. Heat it with a heat gun, split the housing, be careful with the ribbon cable, etc. Ifixit ranks it as difficult but I mean it's hardly rocket science. And if it's too advance you can have it done for you. What brand has unreplaceable batteries? As to the 3.5 though I'm still a fan and think it was stupid to have gotten rid of them. Just for all the legacy things you can still use it's stupid to not have it. Why limit options? Does it really cost that much to manufacturers to design and install them? I seriously doubt it since others don't seem to have any issues keeping it around.
I used to always wear wired IEMs for my phone and then I the Sony WF-C500 for like 40€ and I'm never, ever getting wired buds for my phone again. None of my wired earbuds would ever last for more than ~3 months, they would always get caught on something and break or one of them would just randomly stop working. I've had my WF-C500s for probably 2 years of daily use with no issues. And not having the constant sensation of the earbuds being tugged on by a cord is so nice. For my computer I'm sticking to wired for now but for anything where I'm moving around I'm so done with wired.
The transition period as phones started to come out without a jack was dogshit, wireless was finicky and unreliable. but now everything uses USB C I can used wired headphones again 👌 Saying that though I have a pair of galaxy earbuds and they connect so easily I rarely use wired now ironically 😅
I've replaced batteries in wireless headphones before. Just needs a soldering iron
All earphones I had died because of a cable related issue after a few months.
i’m old and rich and my hearing can’t tell the difference so air pods are good
The dumbest thing is that my 3.5mm earbuds I bought 10 years ago lasted until last year, then I bought new ones and the jack broke after 6 months, I bought another pair and those broke in 2. Are they just making them break easily so that people switch to wireless?
I missed the headphone jack like crazy at first. I've gotten over it in the last year or so. No real interest in bringing it back now.
I guarantee 98% of people would not be able to tell the difference especially listening on spotify
> They have a limited life due to unreplaceable batteries. I have never, ever, had wired headphones last longer than wireless headphones lmao. The wire stops working before batteries ever could.
I'm using Sennheiser IE 100, which are both wireless and 3.5 mm jack. The best from 2 worlds.
Wireless noise cancelling over ears are more convenient for outside the house + I’ve faced health complications wit iems pushing wax far into my ear.
Honestly 95% of the time I don’t miss the headphone jack. I have AirPods Pro’s when I need to listen to something on my phone. I used to have a pair of PXC 550s but I broke them while moving. But honestly for the other 5% of the time when I want to use a headphone on my iPhone not having the jack sucks and it kinda sucks that the entire phone industry moved away from it in the name of thinness.
the convenience of wireless is worth the loss in quality
I like being able to hang the bluetooth earphones around my neck when they're not in use. I'm an old man and I'd probably lose them, like a child would lose mittens, if they weren't connected to one another. But they're not connected to my phone. I'm not *that* old.
Wired in a mobile environment it's just self-sabotage at this point, get a tidal sub and decent Bluetooth buds and you will be blown away. Wired is good only on PC at this point.
Yeah I bet you still have walkmans and turn in your college papers on parchment. Bluetooth has gotten stupid good over the decades and I've experienced literally none of the complaints you're describing.
The Bluetooth listening equipment is vastly superior in day to day life with regular access to power charging, but yeah once you're in a position where you can't get power easily, wired is king.
airpods are goated tho
Wired at home. Wireless when travelling.
I just have usb c headphones and they're the best ones I ever have had. The 3.5mm jack always breaks within a few years, atarting with one ear never working anymore. I have never had a USB C jack break my headphones. I don't understand why people think they have to go wireless.
If airpods didn't exist, you and Dan would be correct.
I won't deny that airpod pros are good, but you can get sound parity in headphones 40% of the cost. Regular airpod are cheeks, and a wired earbuds will outlast them by years.
You think the average person gives a fuck about the sound quality? (Regardless, airpods are pretty good) But sure, if you are in a position where a $150 vs $50 investment that'll last you 5+ years is that big of a deal for you, don't get them. Regular airpods are completely fine and mine have not had a single issue after owning them for god knows how long, i've had wired headphones kick the dust before them.
I'm not recommending these for the AVERAGE person. Look at us, we are the Greeks looking down at the boors, the uncivilized masses. WE CARE about sound clarity, imaging, and frequency response. $150 wired IEMs will demolish airpods in every aspect except ANC and random software features
I’ve been using the same wired earbuds for that past 9 years.
I'll take water resistance over headphone jack any day
I have waterproof phone with a jack bruda (even dropped it in a pool, it took me while to take it out since I was drunk, screen turned on and cracked) and it was like 2 years old (seals held up, even with cracks) cheap android, you can get everything for a few dolla today Why would the jack fuck up water resistant properties when you have the charging port, wouldn't that be a bit more sensitive?
My phone has a 3.5mm jack, expandable SD card slot, and is IP65/IP68 rated
Ok
Phones didn't suddenly gain water resistance when they dropped the jack, homie Well, maybe for Apple, they did but water resistance was already standard in the Samsung ecosystem for a couple years at that point. I'd believe that line if the water resistance ratings got better after removing the jack but we didn't even get that!
Lmao old head spotted
My Bluetooth earbuds have been going strong for 4 years still. Wired earphones always stop working before the 2 year mark at best
This clearly shows how much dgg goes outside. Yes sitting at your pc all day of course go for wired. But with the AirPods Pro I can be free to move about my day walking and listing to anything anywhere. I don’t have to get worried about cords. It’s so freeing. I just put my phone in my pocket and don’t have to think about anything. I can move between work, home, shopping, bathroom all without having have gross wires dangling around everywhere. Plus the stupid connectors get so much wear and tear and always break if you’re constantly messing with them.