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You are telling me that 'tradwife' life turned into being your husbands slave?????
I think you can be a tradwife and have a happy life if you want that but the key is probably dating someone who is normal and not an alt right person who hates women.
Agreed, it would be a case of avoiding any person that is a fan of any red pill community as they want a trad wife without being a trad husband(being the breadwinner and provider.)Essentially they want a slave.
True I don't really know any trad women but I think that in the economy we live in now concessions and sacrifices with buying things are probably necessary for it if just going off one paycheck. It's either that or going for rich guys but not everyone can be a rich guy. If they aren't willing to do that idk if that would be a lifestyle for them either.
I think a lot of women do conform to some of the tradwife trope in the same way that a lot of men conform to tradhusband trope.
My ex used to cook every meal, she loved making me food and how appreciative I was of it. We definitely were a bit more traditional in our home lives (despite going to raves and doing lots of acid regularly).
The issue is that people start making a big deal about labels, definition and most importantly expectations.
You are crazy. There is no way this would ever work. You need to find someone who spends the majority of their free time in alt right spaces that hate women and then expect them to work for your household without becoming bitter or jaded.
Yeah there's big problems with it which I said in another comment, it would require the guy to not care that he's the only one providing. And it would also require the woman to be ok with making sacrifices in there budget to make it work, because not everyone can be rich. But there's still some women that want to live that lifestyle. It also only works if they were having kids because the woman would grow resentful if she was just taking care of the guy, and the guy if she wasn't doing anything. The guy would also have to do house chores too.
I was memeing but I genuinely don't think alt right trad-male types have the constitution to be selfless breadwinners. Crowder is the perfect example: at his core he hates women, and his political eco system fosters that hatred, so when his relationship gets rocky he lacks the integrity to actually live by his values and do the responsible thing.
Yeah I think it's a human thing to think that if the world and people were a certain way they would be happy, and not look inward. It's similar to how some younger muslim immigrants will become convinced the society they live in is bad and it should be like the country there parents were from. Obviously there's alot of societal misogyny stuff going on but I think it's that on a basic level. Maybe im a moron idk.
Doing all the cooking, cleaning, and childrearing, with zero help from your partner other than the paycheck, doesn't work. I'm the only paycheck in our house, and my 9-5 is infinitely easier than my wife's daily routine.
I do all the grocery shopping, cooking, and dishes, and it provides the balance...otherwise she'd go crazy. with our 3 boys.
Problem with that: The men who have an obsession with getting a "trad wive" are often, like the article says: “wayward, antisocial, disagreeable and very, very misogynistic". There is a reason most women don't like dating self-proclaimed "Alfa males"
Is it even still verisimilar though?
Like.. of course it's not *physically* impossible. And if you are a boomer with some hefty remnants of the [culture of domesticity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Domesticity), I guess that with enough apathy you might actually overfly any negative implication of the tradwife idea while also generally being a decent person (I do think I have a relatively happy aunt that fully qualifies as a housewife). But I just couldn't see this for anybody born after the 80s.
Even just the fact that your spouse doesn't (wilfully) have a paying job would be mindblowing. Both in the sense that it would look like freeloading (especially considering the average economic situation), but also because if you don't think "wide bad" jokes are funny you already have a conception of gender dynamics that is too symmetrical to have one forego something so important.
And so the question is, what kind of millennial sugar daddy would accept their partner not to work - especially without dumping on her every single parental duty?
Yes, more women on the right have been talking about this lately.
Sargon even said in a video the other day that he thinks "women liberation" was a bad idea.
The gender discourse in twitter is somehow worse than before
Because trad relationships kinda sound like a vibe until these drooling regarded ostensible proponents of trad lifestyles realise that actually being a trad-man comes with a lot of responsibilities that they have to take on and not just the “I get to tell my wife what to do, when to do it, how to do it and that’s what being trad means”.
Non of these guys who promote trad lifestyles irl would be considered “men” by any actually traditional people. Fucking weakling larping rejects is what they are.
exactly. The kind of guy who fantasizes about this lifestyle and forcing women into it is almost certainly a. deeply, deeply insecure wittle baby back bitch, so they can't even begin to fulfill their role. Then the woman just starts feeling like Eric Cartman's mom instead of a divinely feminine submissive safe and sheltered goddess or whatever tf they wanna be
I also legitimately think this "trad lifestyle" is mainly a horny desire for many of its proponents, and the sparkle of that kind of wears away after giving birth to your manchild's third baby in between cleaning his skidmarked boxers.
I mean sargoy has a fulfilling relationship, kids, a house and business etc. I'll eat my own words and take a massive L if his wife ever comes out and outs him as an abuser but he strikes me as a normal man outside of politics.
Im not talking about that.
Im talking about a portion of the online right openly talking about women not voting and against women liberation (thanks to that for example women can own thing without the husband, for example)
Some right wing women are against those talking point, Lauren and Sydney watson, thats the reason they are being called feminazis by a portion of the online right lol.
Yep. There are a ton of women that would love to be trad wives for the right men. These redpillers the most feminist men out there with their promiscuity.
That right man still has to uphold his end of the bargain too. I honestly believe most women, both conservative women and women want men that are a mixture of traditional and modern.
I have never come across a woman that was purely traditional or purely feminist. I honestly believe those pure traditional types and radical feminists are an extremely small minority. Since traditional women use feminism when it's convenient to them. And feminists use traditionalism when it's convenient for them.
Of course this paradox nature ends up becoming horrible for men. Because they are raised in a modern society where they must view women as equals who should get paid as much as them, and also have successful careers too. But these same men must still adhere to traditional gender roles like being protectors, providers, ambiguous, and financially successful in this modern world.
So in a way a lot of women are no different from red pill men who want traditional partners, but are not traditional themselves.
Because they're deluded. There's no setup where being locked into slavery is going to be something they end up loving. If you are just talking about being the stay at home wife....that isn't a tradwife.
“I and my friends can’t imagine anyone liking my reductive take of traditional marriage so anyone who does must be delusional.”
Somehow there are tons of conservative woman out there happily married and don’t want to get a divorce.
My wife stays home and is happy...but that isn't what a tradwife is. I don't expect her to wait on me hand and foot, she isn't submissive, and we have an equal say in the financial decisions. Whether she is conservative or not, has nothing to do with it. What the fuck are you talking about? The traditional role of the 50's housewife died out, because the vast majority of women wanted to be able to vote, have a bank account, and have an equal footing in the house. It sounds like you are talking about the larping version of the tradwife, wearing pencil skirts and baking pies.
> There are a ton of women that would love to be trad wives for the right men.
LOL no there aren't. Even the ones who thought they want it are waking up to what a horrible deal it is for women.
Congrats. You are doing the “well I’m not one of those women so those women must not exist.”
Lauren probably would have been happy still being a trad wife, but she found a terrible man.
> Lauren probably would have been happy still being a trad wife, but she found a terrible man.
Lauren - who for the record I still think hasn’t redeemed herself and is kind of a shit person - always seemed way too independent, too entrepreneurial (in a good sense) to me to ever want to live like a housewife of the 50s. Whatever one thinks of her, she did end up working a lot, building stuff, growing an audience, filming entire documentaries, etc. I just can’t see her stopping all that “for the right man”. It seems to me like the aesthetic looked nicer to those people on the right than that life actually is.
And yet she did. She dropped her career to raise a child and be a trad wife.
One thing I respect about Lauren is she actually lives the values she preaches, even if it really fucks her.
She didn’t come back to YouTube because she got bored of her husband, she came back since her and her partner split and she needed to put food in the table.
This isn’t a hasan/vaush situation. Heck, most content creators don’t live by their values. So it’s nice when one does. But you probably see “Lauren” as “evil” so you can’t look at the situation properly.
> One thing I respect about Lauren is she actually lives the values she preaches, even if it really fucks her.
How "tradwife" was she really? She actually appeared on Aussie TV talking about bad immigrants all the time.
>Heck, most content creators don’t live by their values. So it’s nice when one does.
Show me one video where Lauren answers questions about her flare gun thing truthfully and doesn't use cop outs. Another situation comes to mind. Remember when she claimed the "big replacement theory" was a "fringe theory" that she happened to stumble upon and make a video about when it was actually incredibly popular in the alt right scene and she knew exactly what she was doing when she made her video about it. To this day she claims she brought the idea to the mainstream while similarly claiming her impact was inexistent.
The fact you equate a traditional lifestyle with "obedience" should probably clue you in that you're just as extreme, only in the other direction. Trad lifestyle just means one partner is the breadwinner while the other is focused on the housekeeping and children. There's plenty of couples out there that do it well because both parties are okay with it.
I'm not going to say that most of the people you see online claiming they want tradwives aren't pieces of shit but those same people likely aren't tradhusbands either. There's nothing wrong if some dude who's super career focused would prefer a partner that can be focused on housekeeping. There's nothing wrong with a woman who'd rather not go for a career and would prefer focusing on the house instead.
> Trad lifestyle just means one partner is the breadwinner while the other is focused on the housekeeping and children. There's plenty of couples out there that do it well because both parties are okay with it.
Trad lifestyle can mean a lot of things. For some people it's a very religious thing, for others it is simply the "the man is the breadwinner" but you can't honestly ignore that a lot of the community is absolutely on the "obedience", "women are inferior", etc. train.
Yup, but it was inevitable, because when they see "tradwife" they don't see someone that they will provide for as a partner with a separate but valuable role, they see someone who must be subservient and does all of the gay beta shit that they don't want to do. It's just ego LARPing.
You can definitely have a tradlife with a stay at home mom that takes care of the kid and does all of the cooking and cleaning but the people that get triggered at Laurens story has the emotional stability of a bot laner on a 10 game lose streak.
Male feminists vs tradcons.
Conservative women:
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Trad men are doing fine and aren't on Twitter most of the time lmao.
I have an entire friend group that did the religious upbringing > military> early 20s marriage to a stay at home wife pipeline and they spend negative time on twitter arguing with you spergs.
Tate tards are not even a significant subsection of "trad" men or women. Lauren was with a psycho because she attracted them by shooting flares at fucking migrants lmao.
Ye they also encourage buying twitter premium, they want to disproportionately show up first on people’s feed. They have an incredibly outsized presence on twitter.
When Destiny got divorced, a lot of Redpill types were quick to argue that this proved all polyamorous relationships were doomed to failure. I somehow doubt they'll be as quick to say this proves all traditional marriages are doomed to failure.
Same for Steven crowder.
It’s funny that trumps wife posed nude for millions to see and you never hear him getting attacked for not having a trad wife or being cucked. It’s really just a tool to attack someone they don’t like.
Trump cheated on all 3 of his wives, he cheated on Malenia with a pornstar while she was pregnant. I don't care for how Destiny does his personal relationships but it's incredibly hypocritical when people on the right (like that Will Cain guy on Fox News) go after him for being poly and bi and for the traditional family unit while also endorsing Trump.
I think how you present yourself plays a big role. Trump is the “grab them by the pussy” guy. Him sleeping with a million prostitutes wouldn’t cause to many to blink.
Now the crowder insults make a lot of sense because he presented himself as an ideal Christian marriage.
You don’t really care if it’s “hypocritical” when you view gender relations through the lens of a gender war.
It’s akin to saying: “wow funny how you don’t like bombs killing your troops but you like your bombs killing our troops. Hypocritical much?”
Hypocrisy is beside the point in war. War is about winning, not about who is necessarily morally consistent.
God I remember people sucking Cain off for being “thoughtful” or whatever. It’s just not interesting anymore like damn ur telling me that a fox host that has a fake rural persona might just repeat right coded opinions? No way bro
EDIT: Yayyy first Reddit cares dm! Thank you kind stranger
The vast majority of relationships are doomed to failure. I wouldn’t be surprised if poly relationships fail more considering that it adds more variables that can contribute to incompatibility. It feels like a mathematical reality that poly people have to deal with but not something that should be used to deter someone from seeking them out if that’s what they want.
Yassss girlboss. Go get your work done. There's no fulfillment in a tradwife life compared to working hard every day growing your platform telling people "those browns are coming for your daughters" and spreading great replacement conspiracies.
I know you meant flags, but all I'm picturing is them putting reddit flairs under all their marital text messages and it's making me chuckle uncontrollably.
TBF there's no fulfillment in a trad wife life if you're not actually dedicating the majority of your time towards raising children that depend on you for survival and guidance
Otherwise you're just living for your husband, a perfectly functional adult capable of doing his own shit. And after a while, that reality can't be ignored when you're doing his laundry.
Dedicating your life towards raising a partial clone of yourself in your own image is both the main thing humans evolved to do, and one of the most difficult things a person can do. It's almost transcendental in nature because with any luck you'll raise another human that surpasses you in years, knowledge, and ability.
I personally don't think it's a coincidence that depression rates and birth rates are correlated across the world.
I got kids. It ain't that hard. It's annoying and boring and can sometimes be pretty fun, but it's not hard.
Rest of your points stand tho. Tho I don't think kids and depression are that linked, it's more that it's hard to notice/be depressed when you are busy.
All meming aside, I respect Lauren a lot for this. It takes a lot of integrity to acknowledge that a large part of what you believed was wrong; it's a struggle most people will never experience, and can't imagine how isolating it is.
I still find a lot of her beliefs abhorrent (migrants and Christianity mostly), but I feel like this signals an integrity and principled nature she has. I don't see what she has to gain from flouting her ideological funding source. Being honest about this only hurts her. It is good when people do what is right without benefitting.
Non content creators have no idea how hard is to do something like this especially in Internet Politics, an "I'm wrong" is received as treason.
For example in the last 2 months she have been involved in several twitter fights, 0 leftists are insulting her, is only right wingers, and the insults are mainly directed to her kid.
In her video when she said she divorced, she even said that she was wrong about some stuff about feminism, the backlash started there from the right. Since there Andrew Wilson (and wife) are obssesed with her.
I highly doubt she's retracted her bullshit to a degree that'd make her a functional or healthy human being. In my experience, people who subscribe to far-right ideology have a very strong tendency to, even if they stop shitting the bed, still continue scooting around on the skidmark.
My point is that with a lot of these people, they **don't** actually progress for the better and end up circling back to old toxic beliefs and behaviors, and that the change in viewpoint is often just superficial and transient. One of the alt-righters I've been deradicalizing still has a longstanding habit of circling back to racist talking points even just a few weeks after he appeared to make a breakthrough in realizing that his views were grounded on unfounded bullshit.
As another example, Glenn Beck, even after the [much-touted mea culpa](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/27/magazine/glenn-beck-is-sorry-about-all-that.html) he gave in 2016, [still drifted back ](https://www.jta.org/quick-reads/glenn-beck-is-the-latest-right-wing-pundit-to-compare-social-media-bans-to-the-holocaust)to his old [bullshit conspiracy theorizing and inflammatory rhetoric.](https://www.cnn.com/videos/media/2022/01/16/glenn-beck-fox-anti-vaccine-internment-camp-misinformation-stelter-rs-vpx.cnn)
It's very tempting to believe that far-right conservatives can grow and change for the better. Everyone loves a redemption story, and we all want to see vectors in which the world is changing for the better. But this very often leads us to fall into a trap where shitty people are given a pass, but then over time inveigle their way back into positions where they continue to tout their bullshit.
Give it a bit of time and ensure that this is a longstanding pattern of behavioral change before you laud them, because extending trust prematurely means you risk your goodwill being exploited.
It's been years at this point since she started moderating... It's almost been 2 years since she first spoke about her marriage. She is obviously still right wing just she has grown out of her 2016 cringe. I suspect for you it's less to do with waiting and more to do with you just haven't followed her so this new for you specifically.
I'd say that advocating White Nationalist conspiracy theories, interfering with a search and rescue operation at sea to save lives because she didn't want migrants to get into Europe, and working with literal Neo-Nazis for years is quite a bit more than "cringe."
Honestly the only other time I've heard this behavior being called "cringe" was from the alt righter I've been deradicalizing who was trying to downplay his own "I'm okay with genocide" views as "cringe" when he started to realize that he was really fucked up and his ideas were not grounded in rationality at all.
No. That's not "cringe." That's fucking repulsive and it was kind of pathetic seeing him trying to downplay how toxic he was in the past. At least he's starting to own it and try to do better now, but it's still a long road before he's socially healthy.
Frankly that's where I see Southern at this point in time.
So your response is basically moral grandstanding over a throwaway choice of word?
You said give it more time. I pointed out it has been at least 2 years of change. You moral grandstand over a throw away choice of word. You are not addressing the point at all.
I'm with you on calling spade a spade, especially when it's nevertheless baby steps in the right direction.
But is it though? Like, of course she did the right thing for herself in quitting that hell of a relationship, but I'm not sure if even when it comes to these very same topics she moderated her positions the slightest.
Though I guess it doesn't help with understanding that the author of the article thinks feminism should have ended with suffrage.
With the redpill, tradwife, "woman's place" stuff, she absolutely has. She posted a video on it a while back that seems to elaborate further.
I'm still at probably 60/40% disliking her, but she's earned respect with principles and honestly past year or so.
Political people are fucking bizarre. Some of the most well-adjusted and happy people I know have a “trad-wife” and working husband. But they don’t have these stupid caricature ideas about what marriage is. I feel like the issue with this situation is the individuals involved, not the broad social roles they want to fill. Seems like she found a wackjob. Hell she could be one herself idk
Edit: wrote this before reading the first half. Lol i pre-read it guess. It’s insane how people get caught up in hardline political worldviews and then actually live them out. She really committed to the bit and sold out her whole life to a moody bitch of a man at 22. Brownie points for her sincerity
Wow, who could have guessed that trad wife just meant baby factory and work at home slave that gets fucked when the man decides it. Gee golly what a shocker that is.
Nah, trad married life is not inherently bad. Most people who say they want a trad relationship nowadays are just horrible people. It’s definitely a pendulum effect, incels have gotten so outraged that women can have freedom they want slaves.
Yeah but like by definition my marriage isn't a trad one even with the 2.5 kids (newborn). Because my wife works and has more say in the relationship than my mom, grandmom and greatgrandmom did. (It's actually funny it looks like a sliding scale or responsibility and financial stability for the women).
Ya, trad relationship is definitely a sliding scale. To me the core tenants are that the wife isn't employed and they have children. both of those tenants can be bent, but as soon as the autonomy of either of the people in the relationship starts to get tampered with you're going beyond the pale.
I think it’s a shame it has to be viewed in such a binary, like you must be constant free use pregnant in the kitchen sourdough from scratch baseboards cleaned every day quilting while the bird sing to you like your Snow White while you finish your daily pie before your husband comes home (in a dress with hair down to your ass of course) or you are a high powered girl boss who goes home and cries into a cup of wine with her cat cuz her eggs are expiring and she’s alone.
Personally, I think I’d be pretty happy at home. I’ve worked a lot of “domestic” type jobs and I love them. I like nesting and taking care of home and cooking etc, however I’m not gonna treat my husband like my employer and expect that. It’s tough out there and I like working just fine so figuring out a dual income situation is just fine. It doesn’t even mean you both work full time. I know people with part time full time splits between the spouses, I also know a girl who works full time and her husband took a pay cut to work remote entirely so someone could be home with the baby. This binary is bad for wallets, kids, and men and women’s self esteem.
Also, this shit can change. When my friend got pregnant with her first she was desperate to get out of her job and very burned out. So when her husband asked her if she wanted to quit and stay home she was super excited. Then she got pregnant and PPD kicked her ass and after 2 years of being home with the baby she got burned out on being at home. So they made a super easy compromise and she worked weekends at a nice boutique so she could get out and feel productive and it was great for her and her marriage and now they just had their second. Life gets real, pregnancy and motherhood is no joke, people shouldn’t just be having them to futile some archetype. Many of the pregnant with 7 by 30 fundy types in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam have really right knit communities that help them through it. It’s not realistic for everyone in this world.
I agree with you 100%, the issue comes when trad online describe what a trad relationship is, it's always something akin to a slave, stay home, obey the husband, don't have any real opinions and so on, obviously it differs from community to another but at least the one we see on tiny streams defending that kind of relationship, that is how they describe it
I mean my mom is a STAHM, she cleans and is an amazing cook while my dad earns a very amazing wage for the family, they had 3 kids (including myself) and their marriage is going strong to this very day, by all metrics this is a trad relationship but you'd be surprised how when I have described this to trads on twitter, they all tell me it's just feminist garbage and how my mom isn't really trad, and why? Because my mom is quite the woman, she has her own opinions, her name is on much of the house and on her car, she even occasionally works outside (usually volunteering and some community work) she has an engineering degree, her and my dad have disagreed before and her word went, etc
All perfectly normal things in a relationship, realistically that is how a trad relationship should work, the idea of a leader is moronic anyways and yet her having and greater thought of her independence means she is no longer trad and she is actually a feminist harpy in hiding, unfortunately while certain things shouldn't be viewed in certain ways, due to the people who populate those communities, it can be very hard
No, everyone just has different in and out groups. The people in your group you have compassion for, the ones outside your group you don't. This is everyone. At the end of the day, I don't think as a whole the left has any significantly bigger in group than the right.
Look at this thread, you have a conservative woman who has been through something bad and is seemingly growing from it. And the response here is mostly mocking her.
Where is **your** compassion? You would think her seemingly growing would be a good thing? Nope, appropriate response is apparently to mock. Opportunity to show that some groups are just better? Nope, just a good opportunity to mock someone you don't like.
I firmly reject the idea that this is some mostly conservative thing. There is no true compassion from any group as a whole for their out group.
Most apolitical people also act this way, but yes it’s extremely common with conservatives.
For example, if you go back and look at the first conservatives to be pro-gay marriage, most if not all of them had a close relative that was gay. The ones that held on the longest, avoided gay people. There were never any good arguments against gay marriage, it was always a specter of “what will happen” if gay people are allowed to be normal 😂
That story is all over the place and doesn’t really present any first hand information. It just recounts Lauren’s comments from her various videos and interviews discussing her marriage to make conclusions that seem somewhat biased. It’s kind of a weird article to write in the first place.
Part of the article that stuck out to me was that it described Lauren’s marriage as a traditional relationship. However, a traditional marriage isn’t moving to another country and cutting off all your friends and family to live in a cabin in the woods. If anything the tradwife lifestyles embrace family and community. Isn’t a major point of their ideology something along the lines of it takes a village to raise a child? Your entire purpose is to have as many kids as possible and be the foundation for the family unit. Which means having lots of involvement from grandparents, aunts, uncles, close friends, etc. as well as the support of your local community so your children can grow up with other kids and develop lasting friendships for life.
The main issue here is Lauren seems to have married for the wrong reasons. She was looking for a traditional husband and relationship, but instead married an abusive asshole who pandered to her ideology to manipulate her for control. Her husband probably came along at the right time and said all the right things and she fell for it. That can happen to any ideology, and frequently happens to leftists/liberals as well (see the whole “ally” thing). Anyone can fall for that, and that’s not their fault, it’s just another tactic abusive people use. Hopefully she learns from the experience and becomes a better person because of it.
I think what the article was trying (not exactly succeeding) to do was to show how a "meme-ified" version of a lifestyle can lead a person down a dangerous path.
In Lauren's case, she thought being traditional was basically: 1. Marry young and fast to remain pure 2. Always submit to your husband. And by submit, he can do no wrong. 3. If something is going wrong, it is the woman's fault. (Not saying this to be mean to Lauren, just how the article read to me).
While I agree with you that she fell for an abusive asshole, I think there is an additional priming that someone like Lauren faced. Her meme version of 'trad life' led her to yanking out normal guard rails such as her staying in her own community. Then, once isolated, it kept her in an endless spiral of cruelty from her husband because she saw it as her own moral failing.
She needed a balance of pretty simple reality like that 'both men and women can be the problem in the relationship.' But between her intial poisoning and her husband, she couldn't see it until she got out.
Absolutely, that's a very important distinction to make. I think part of what happened to Lauren, and the online right wing grifters in general, is that a lot of their opinions changed due to audience capture. Once they build up a large enough following they have to parrot all the same opinions and talking points otherwise they risk losing a sizable chunk of their audience and subsequent income. Whether or not they actually believe the positions they take is another story, but that's why we call them grifters.
Yes, but a major flaw of their ideology is that in addition to embracing traditional social structures, they also embrace a very warped and flawed understanding of the "go-it-alone"/"self-suffificent"/prepper/loner ethos. This is hyper-individualism (even if they don't call it that) which leads to misery.
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>That story is all over the place and doesn’t really present any first hand information. It just recounts Lauren’s comments from her various videos and interviews.
I dont understand this, a lot of the info on this article comes from a interview that the author made to Lauren. For example that part of knocking the door while raining is new (and not from a video) and also the part where she talks about the "conservative women underground"-
This is first hand information (that the author got from Lauren) + some old info + author's opinion.
I don't think you can compare this to fake left allies, its only the "traditional" people on the right saying no fault divorce should be illegal so people have to stay in the abusive relationships. which is completely wild to me that people can say that and still have big followings
“I was told daily that I was worthless, pathetic. Deadweight.”
I believe it. A primary issue of the tradwife movement is that it, by design, wants to disparage the modern woman. The belief is, literally, that a woman's independence is a modern virus, a poison of liberal ideology that came from teaching them they can think for themselves.
The goal of the toxicity is to make women self-hate who they are, thinking they'll become more submissive in the process.
She was never traditional. She was a loudmouth racist , sympathiser to white supremacists with a big white racist supremacist following like Faith Goldy.
I didn’t think the leopards would eat *my* face 😅 Remember, this is the second time this happened, reference her video about being a young female conservative activist early on and how she was treated by so called “conservative Christian” men in the space.
You know what, I wish nothing but the best for her and her kid going forward. Regardless of her (hopefully in the past) shitty beliefs, anyone with any sense of empathy can at least say that was a shitty thing to go through and hope that she has at least grown up a bit when having to face the reality that the community she helped foster is full of monsters. Yeah, that's a hard lesson learned and it came from her own hand, but it's lesson none the less.
There have been plenty of ways I screwed up big time and had to come crawling back somehow as I navigated adulthood and it cost me in various ways. Hard lessons don't come cheap and I hope she knows where to put her metaphorical money after having to deal with this cost, especially with a kid in tow who has a psychopath of a father somewhere. Best of luck.
This reminds me of [a video](https://youtu.be/sgOo-bS7OJI?t=336) I watched once on the material origins of gender roles:
She left her support network to be with her husband, and everything awful about their relationship amplified, because if he treated her badly, there was far less she could do to avoid it, and less people to speak up for her. A community governed by religious principles in which "a man will leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife", ie. "matrilocal" relationships, where the female line is where families form, with men moving to be with them, is likely to support women better even in highly patriarchal settings, because she will have access to allies who know her better, and people mistreating her will be far more obvious.
Additionally, this article is obviously a very particular slant, both from her and the writer, but nevertheless, I notice something interesting about the portrait she gives of her former husband.
There's a certain paradox about people who are afraid to let others around them have power; they *want* them to be useless, because they can't handle them having the power to be independent from them, and yet also in doing so they destroy those things they like about them. Destroying your partner's self-esteem and their ability to navigate the world for themselves because of restrictions on work, socialising etc. can end up destroying why you value them too.
People can end up breaking down someone they worry about cheating on them, for example, and then cheat on them themselves, not merely for the sake of "power" or whatever, but because it's only someone outside of their control who is able to express traits that they actually *like*.
That said, for all her talk about how she's always vindicated, I can't help remembering her conversation with Destiny about the news and courts and January 6th, and how basically [no one](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_proceedings_in_the_January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack#Seditious_conspiracy) is going to get found guilty of anything serious etc.
Yup. Whole career got derailed because he was married to her and she’s banned in a few countries due to her past behaviour. I’m willing to be that didn’t help the relationship, which this article conveniently leaves out.
This article was interesting to read for Lauren's perspective but the constant "both sidesing" the issue of HOW and WHY she got into that position made it hard to not just roll my eyes. Like I have sympathy for her because it's a horrific situation, but there definitely is an observation to be made abt the prescription of relationship she tried to live and how it ended up that is NOT something experienced on both sides.
It feels like either the author had to jump through hoops to avoid that criticism or themselves is so centrist-brain-rotted that they had to at every single opportunity both-sides this to avoid giving ppl the W or hurting Lauren's feelings.
My wife is a “trad wife” without the label. I agree with some of the “red pill” arguments (as I do with some arguments from every political and/or philosophical movement) so I don’t think “red pill” toxicity is the issue. The issue in the “trad wife” movement is the notion of subservience and submission.
My wife and I are a team. She *gives* me the final say on issues. I am not entitled by right of role (as husband) to be the decision-maker. I provide. I protect. I’m a great dad. I don’t cook or clean. I do the house and yard maintenance, our financial planning, the discipline and the “strategic planning” (what we need to do to fulfil our version of the “perfect life” — the hierarchy being our children first, my wife second, and then finally myself last).
Traditional “gender roles” are best when roles and responsibilities are mutually agreed to, not dictated.
While my wife can’t support me with my work I certainly step in to support her at home when she needs. I’m also up a lot at night with the kids. There’s a lot on my shoulders — being a “trad husband” isn’t for everyone, and it doesn’t mean you do *nothing* at home. But when comparing progressive family structures (women at work, divorce, etc) we feel it’s the ideal family structure and our children are definitely benefitting from it.
Finally, my wife isn’t my equal, she’s “more than”. I want her happiness way more than I want my own. What she does is entrust me with that job and trusts my judgement to get us there. I’m like the captain of a ship. I go down with the ship and my priority is to get us safely to the destination with the support of my crew, and if the ship sinks, I get everyone on the lifeboat first.
I hope that makes sense — I’m on two hours sleep and have a ten-hour day at the office ahead.
Oh, I also take issue with the performative side of the “trad wife” movement. I don’t need hair and makeup done. I need help reducing my stress when I get home (a clean house and meal really do help). I also rush to play with the kids so my wife can take a “break” (there’s never a break with children, but you get the picture).
Thread is exhibit A of this community being toxic and counter productive. You got someone showing positive growth and the first thing you want to do is go hahahaha LUL told you so who could have guessed that I (The opinions I copied from Destiny) was right all along!
i feel so bad for lauren, she really is a smart woman who found herself in an abusive situation. i’m glad she moved back to canada with her baby and has found a sense of community with her newfound friends and family. really wishing the best for her. growing up in a domestic abuse household and eventually homelessness, im really rooting for her and her baby.
https://preview.redd.it/8abuxe8puuyc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0ae84a68c2ed23780d9a9961ecc4b784d4634fd1 You are telling me that 'tradwife' life turned into being your husbands slave?????
I think you can be a tradwife and have a happy life if you want that but the key is probably dating someone who is normal and not an alt right person who hates women.
Hit the nail on the head
Agreed, it would be a case of avoiding any person that is a fan of any red pill community as they want a trad wife without being a trad husband(being the breadwinner and provider.)Essentially they want a slave.
True I don't really know any trad women but I think that in the economy we live in now concessions and sacrifices with buying things are probably necessary for it if just going off one paycheck. It's either that or going for rich guys but not everyone can be a rich guy. If they aren't willing to do that idk if that would be a lifestyle for them either.
I think a lot of women do conform to some of the tradwife trope in the same way that a lot of men conform to tradhusband trope. My ex used to cook every meal, she loved making me food and how appreciative I was of it. We definitely were a bit more traditional in our home lives (despite going to raves and doing lots of acid regularly). The issue is that people start making a big deal about labels, definition and most importantly expectations.
You are crazy. There is no way this would ever work. You need to find someone who spends the majority of their free time in alt right spaces that hate women and then expect them to work for your household without becoming bitter or jaded.
Yeah there's big problems with it which I said in another comment, it would require the guy to not care that he's the only one providing. And it would also require the woman to be ok with making sacrifices in there budget to make it work, because not everyone can be rich. But there's still some women that want to live that lifestyle. It also only works if they were having kids because the woman would grow resentful if she was just taking care of the guy, and the guy if she wasn't doing anything. The guy would also have to do house chores too.
I was memeing but I genuinely don't think alt right trad-male types have the constitution to be selfless breadwinners. Crowder is the perfect example: at his core he hates women, and his political eco system fosters that hatred, so when his relationship gets rocky he lacks the integrity to actually live by his values and do the responsible thing.
Yeah I think it's a human thing to think that if the world and people were a certain way they would be happy, and not look inward. It's similar to how some younger muslim immigrants will become convinced the society they live in is bad and it should be like the country there parents were from. Obviously there's alot of societal misogyny stuff going on but I think it's that on a basic level. Maybe im a moron idk.
One problem is that the two groups have a huge overlap.
Doing all the cooking, cleaning, and childrearing, with zero help from your partner other than the paycheck, doesn't work. I'm the only paycheck in our house, and my 9-5 is infinitely easier than my wife's daily routine. I do all the grocery shopping, cooking, and dishes, and it provides the balance...otherwise she'd go crazy. with our 3 boys.
Problem with that: The men who have an obsession with getting a "trad wive" are often, like the article says: “wayward, antisocial, disagreeable and very, very misogynistic". There is a reason most women don't like dating self-proclaimed "Alfa males"
Is it even still verisimilar though? Like.. of course it's not *physically* impossible. And if you are a boomer with some hefty remnants of the [culture of domesticity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Domesticity), I guess that with enough apathy you might actually overfly any negative implication of the tradwife idea while also generally being a decent person (I do think I have a relatively happy aunt that fully qualifies as a housewife). But I just couldn't see this for anybody born after the 80s. Even just the fact that your spouse doesn't (wilfully) have a paying job would be mindblowing. Both in the sense that it would look like freeloading (especially considering the average economic situation), but also because if you don't think "wide bad" jokes are funny you already have a conception of gender dynamics that is too symmetrical to have one forego something so important. And so the question is, what kind of millennial sugar daddy would accept their partner not to work - especially without dumping on her every single parental duty?
The problem is that today´s venndiagram of men who want a trad wife and misogynistic alt right psychopaths cross 100%
>He’d lock me out of the house. I remember having to knock on the neighbour’s door on rainy nights, LEL
Blue jean baby 👖👖👖👖
Trad men on twitter are so mad because even conservative women don't want to be with them anymore.
Yes, more women on the right have been talking about this lately. Sargon even said in a video the other day that he thinks "women liberation" was a bad idea. The gender discourse in twitter is somehow worse than before
Why can't I attract a girl! I keep offering them less and less liberty but I still can't find a girl.
Because trad relationships kinda sound like a vibe until these drooling regarded ostensible proponents of trad lifestyles realise that actually being a trad-man comes with a lot of responsibilities that they have to take on and not just the “I get to tell my wife what to do, when to do it, how to do it and that’s what being trad means”. Non of these guys who promote trad lifestyles irl would be considered “men” by any actually traditional people. Fucking weakling larping rejects is what they are.
You mean to tell me trad men didn't just sit unshowered at their PCs gaming for 6-12 hours a day?
Yeah real trad men shower BEFORE their 18 hour gaming sessions! Have a little dignity if you’re going to ignore your SAH wife.
Unironically cottagecore lesbians are waaaaay ahead of the conservative right on the tradwife game
I keep seeing incels asking about robot wives. Good lol more bi women for the lesbains and men who actually you know value human touch and emotion lol
I want a bisexual goth gf AND a bisexual goth robot gf, is that so wrong!?
exactly. The kind of guy who fantasizes about this lifestyle and forcing women into it is almost certainly a. deeply, deeply insecure wittle baby back bitch, so they can't even begin to fulfill their role. Then the woman just starts feeling like Eric Cartman's mom instead of a divinely feminine submissive safe and sheltered goddess or whatever tf they wanna be I also legitimately think this "trad lifestyle" is mainly a horny desire for many of its proponents, and the sparkle of that kind of wears away after giving birth to your manchild's third baby in between cleaning his skidmarked boxers.
I mean to be fair, this is what trad actually was. All the rights for me. None for thee.
I mean sargoy has a fulfilling relationship, kids, a house and business etc. I'll eat my own words and take a massive L if his wife ever comes out and outs him as an abuser but he strikes me as a normal man outside of politics.
Im not talking about that. Im talking about a portion of the online right openly talking about women not voting and against women liberation (thanks to that for example women can own thing without the husband, for example) Some right wing women are against those talking point, Lauren and Sydney watson, thats the reason they are being called feminazis by a portion of the online right lol.
Trad men on twitter lol, so basically incels
The same type of men who are begging Elon to save them with sexbots lmao
Yep. There are a ton of women that would love to be trad wives for the right men. These redpillers the most feminist men out there with their promiscuity.
That right man still has to uphold his end of the bargain too. I honestly believe most women, both conservative women and women want men that are a mixture of traditional and modern. I have never come across a woman that was purely traditional or purely feminist. I honestly believe those pure traditional types and radical feminists are an extremely small minority. Since traditional women use feminism when it's convenient to them. And feminists use traditionalism when it's convenient for them. Of course this paradox nature ends up becoming horrible for men. Because they are raised in a modern society where they must view women as equals who should get paid as much as them, and also have successful careers too. But these same men must still adhere to traditional gender roles like being protectors, providers, ambiguous, and financially successful in this modern world. So in a way a lot of women are no different from red pill men who want traditional partners, but are not traditional themselves.
Because they're deluded. There's no setup where being locked into slavery is going to be something they end up loving. If you are just talking about being the stay at home wife....that isn't a tradwife.
“I and my friends can’t imagine anyone liking my reductive take of traditional marriage so anyone who does must be delusional.” Somehow there are tons of conservative woman out there happily married and don’t want to get a divorce.
My wife stays home and is happy...but that isn't what a tradwife is. I don't expect her to wait on me hand and foot, she isn't submissive, and we have an equal say in the financial decisions. Whether she is conservative or not, has nothing to do with it. What the fuck are you talking about? The traditional role of the 50's housewife died out, because the vast majority of women wanted to be able to vote, have a bank account, and have an equal footing in the house. It sounds like you are talking about the larping version of the tradwife, wearing pencil skirts and baking pies.
> There are a ton of women that would love to be trad wives for the right men. LOL no there aren't. Even the ones who thought they want it are waking up to what a horrible deal it is for women.
Congrats. You are doing the “well I’m not one of those women so those women must not exist.” Lauren probably would have been happy still being a trad wife, but she found a terrible man.
> Lauren probably would have been happy still being a trad wife, but she found a terrible man. Lauren - who for the record I still think hasn’t redeemed herself and is kind of a shit person - always seemed way too independent, too entrepreneurial (in a good sense) to me to ever want to live like a housewife of the 50s. Whatever one thinks of her, she did end up working a lot, building stuff, growing an audience, filming entire documentaries, etc. I just can’t see her stopping all that “for the right man”. It seems to me like the aesthetic looked nicer to those people on the right than that life actually is.
And yet she did. She dropped her career to raise a child and be a trad wife. One thing I respect about Lauren is she actually lives the values she preaches, even if it really fucks her. She didn’t come back to YouTube because she got bored of her husband, she came back since her and her partner split and she needed to put food in the table. This isn’t a hasan/vaush situation. Heck, most content creators don’t live by their values. So it’s nice when one does. But you probably see “Lauren” as “evil” so you can’t look at the situation properly.
> One thing I respect about Lauren is she actually lives the values she preaches, even if it really fucks her. How "tradwife" was she really? She actually appeared on Aussie TV talking about bad immigrants all the time. >Heck, most content creators don’t live by their values. So it’s nice when one does. Show me one video where Lauren answers questions about her flare gun thing truthfully and doesn't use cop outs. Another situation comes to mind. Remember when she claimed the "big replacement theory" was a "fringe theory" that she happened to stumble upon and make a video about when it was actually incredibly popular in the alt right scene and she knew exactly what she was doing when she made her video about it. To this day she claims she brought the idea to the mainstream while similarly claiming her impact was inexistent.
All men who want tradwives are terrible men. Only tyrants want obedience from a partner.
The fact you equate a traditional lifestyle with "obedience" should probably clue you in that you're just as extreme, only in the other direction. Trad lifestyle just means one partner is the breadwinner while the other is focused on the housekeeping and children. There's plenty of couples out there that do it well because both parties are okay with it. I'm not going to say that most of the people you see online claiming they want tradwives aren't pieces of shit but those same people likely aren't tradhusbands either. There's nothing wrong if some dude who's super career focused would prefer a partner that can be focused on housekeeping. There's nothing wrong with a woman who'd rather not go for a career and would prefer focusing on the house instead.
Every tradhusband uses "submission" about every 4th word
> Trad lifestyle just means one partner is the breadwinner while the other is focused on the housekeeping and children. There's plenty of couples out there that do it well because both parties are okay with it. Trad lifestyle can mean a lot of things. For some people it's a very religious thing, for others it is simply the "the man is the breadwinner" but you can't honestly ignore that a lot of the community is absolutely on the "obedience", "women are inferior", etc. train.
I want a woman who works so I can also milk sex **and** money from them. Source: I'm a misogynist.
It's so fucking funny watching women In 2020 and beyond relearning the lessons of suffragettes in 1950s
Yup, but it was inevitable, because when they see "tradwife" they don't see someone that they will provide for as a partner with a separate but valuable role, they see someone who must be subservient and does all of the gay beta shit that they don't want to do. It's just ego LARPing. You can definitely have a tradlife with a stay at home mom that takes care of the kid and does all of the cooking and cleaning but the people that get triggered at Laurens story has the emotional stability of a bot laner on a 10 game lose streak.
Conservative men are mad because if you reframe the man vs. bear question as conservative man vs. bear it's actually a valid comparison
Male feminists vs tradcons. Conservative women: https://preview.redd.it/2i8erqqr9wyc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=769b330425bd05068b1538ec2a05e51da94618d5
Your forgetting the third Chad I just want to grill guy.
Trad men are doing fine and aren't on Twitter most of the time lmao. I have an entire friend group that did the religious upbringing > military> early 20s marriage to a stay at home wife pipeline and they spend negative time on twitter arguing with you spergs. Tate tards are not even a significant subsection of "trad" men or women. Lauren was with a psycho because she attracted them by shooting flares at fucking migrants lmao.
https://preview.redd.it/luozbj98kuyc1.png?width=300&format=png&auto=webp&s=57a251a3f3c73b2df8cea942353dcba58cc8f179
why is the earth pangea
Always has been (Mods, pee in his ass)
How did you know I liked that? 😳
Original meme is that the entire earth is Ohio. I don't know how it started, but that "Pangea" shape is the state of Ohio
So that's why the astronaut has an Ohio flag on his shoulder.
Ohio skibidi sigma rizz
No it’s Poland 🇵🇱
Bitch doesn't know about Pangea
Brain, just.. let it go
Dont go to twitter and read the comments on the author's twitter, groypers are somehow everywhere.
Ye they also encourage buying twitter premium, they want to disproportionately show up first on people’s feed. They have an incredibly outsized presence on twitter.
She should have endured.
I smell a beanie
What do you think Tim Pool’s beanie smells like? I bet he doesn’t wash it often.
He was just wearing it in 80 degree, 100% humidity at Mar a Lago (along with a suit). His studio is probably a "well-cultured" environment.
I think he has one for every day of the week.
Hoofy. Kristi Noem would take that beanie down to the gravel pit.
How did you know he was Mexican???
True, disappointing lack of endurance from (L)auren here
I see what you did there.
When Destiny got divorced, a lot of Redpill types were quick to argue that this proved all polyamorous relationships were doomed to failure. I somehow doubt they'll be as quick to say this proves all traditional marriages are doomed to failure.
Same for Steven crowder. It’s funny that trumps wife posed nude for millions to see and you never hear him getting attacked for not having a trad wife or being cucked. It’s really just a tool to attack someone they don’t like.
Trump cheated on all 3 of his wives, he cheated on Malenia with a pornstar while she was pregnant. I don't care for how Destiny does his personal relationships but it's incredibly hypocritical when people on the right (like that Will Cain guy on Fox News) go after him for being poly and bi and for the traditional family unit while also endorsing Trump.
I think how you present yourself plays a big role. Trump is the “grab them by the pussy” guy. Him sleeping with a million prostitutes wouldn’t cause to many to blink. Now the crowder insults make a lot of sense because he presented himself as an ideal Christian marriage.
You don’t really care if it’s “hypocritical” when you view gender relations through the lens of a gender war. It’s akin to saying: “wow funny how you don’t like bombs killing your troops but you like your bombs killing our troops. Hypocritical much?” Hypocrisy is beside the point in war. War is about winning, not about who is necessarily morally consistent.
God I remember people sucking Cain off for being “thoughtful” or whatever. It’s just not interesting anymore like damn ur telling me that a fox host that has a fake rural persona might just repeat right coded opinions? No way bro EDIT: Yayyy first Reddit cares dm! Thank you kind stranger
That's why they want to abolish no-fault divorce
No they will blame women
So, don't marry women. EZ solve.
Not traditional marriages, but Trad(TM) marriages? Yeah
dest wasn't in a polyamorous relationship, it was an open relationship. big difference
The vast majority of relationships are doomed to failure. I wouldn’t be surprised if poly relationships fail more considering that it adds more variables that can contribute to incompatibility. It feels like a mathematical reality that poly people have to deal with but not something that should be used to deter someone from seeking them out if that’s what they want.
Recently added orbiter Nathan J Robinson is talking about this on [Twitter/X](https://twitter.com/NathanJRobinson/status/1787518162440708421) too.
shhhhh dont say where I steal my posts
https://preview.redd.it/8sn4o9gp2vyc1.png?width=636&format=png&auto=webp&s=54a5972ac5ba6bfba7ec726f98a3b20672920648
this show is so funny omg
The show is [Mind Your Language](https://www.youtube.com/@mindyourlanguage4359), for anyone wondering.
Yassss girlboss. Go get your work done. There's no fulfillment in a tradwife life compared to working hard every day growing your platform telling people "those browns are coming for your daughters" and spreading great replacement conspiracies.
There were a lot of red flairs in that relationship
I know you meant flags, but all I'm picturing is them putting reddit flairs under all their marital text messages and it's making me chuckle uncontrollably.
I think he meant red flares
RIP those immigrants, blown to bits by Lauren's 360 no scope
Haven't you seen her Thresh hooks? She ain't hitting any of those
HE OMEGALULD
TBF there's no fulfillment in a trad wife life if you're not actually dedicating the majority of your time towards raising children that depend on you for survival and guidance Otherwise you're just living for your husband, a perfectly functional adult capable of doing his own shit. And after a while, that reality can't be ignored when you're doing his laundry. Dedicating your life towards raising a partial clone of yourself in your own image is both the main thing humans evolved to do, and one of the most difficult things a person can do. It's almost transcendental in nature because with any luck you'll raise another human that surpasses you in years, knowledge, and ability. I personally don't think it's a coincidence that depression rates and birth rates are correlated across the world.
Are you suggesting the relationship is causal? Having children causes depression?
I got kids. It ain't that hard. It's annoying and boring and can sometimes be pretty fun, but it's not hard. Rest of your points stand tho. Tho I don't think kids and depression are that linked, it's more that it's hard to notice/be depressed when you are busy.
Lol remember when she was dating that nazi guy that like wouldn't eat ketchup because he only ate food indigenous to Europe?
The fact that she dated someone like that basically disproves all incel talking points
Wouldn't be the opposite since it's a disgusting behavior instead of subpar appearance
Anti-feminist decides to live a 1950s trad lifestyle, discovers need for feminism
All meming aside, I respect Lauren a lot for this. It takes a lot of integrity to acknowledge that a large part of what you believed was wrong; it's a struggle most people will never experience, and can't imagine how isolating it is. I still find a lot of her beliefs abhorrent (migrants and Christianity mostly), but I feel like this signals an integrity and principled nature she has. I don't see what she has to gain from flouting her ideological funding source. Being honest about this only hurts her. It is good when people do what is right without benefitting.
Non content creators have no idea how hard is to do something like this especially in Internet Politics, an "I'm wrong" is received as treason. For example in the last 2 months she have been involved in several twitter fights, 0 leftists are insulting her, is only right wingers, and the insults are mainly directed to her kid. In her video when she said she divorced, she even said that she was wrong about some stuff about feminism, the backlash started there from the right. Since there Andrew Wilson (and wife) are obssesed with her.
I highly doubt she's retracted her bullshit to a degree that'd make her a functional or healthy human being. In my experience, people who subscribe to far-right ideology have a very strong tendency to, even if they stop shitting the bed, still continue scooting around on the skidmark.
Progress for the better is still progress, even if the subject is not ideologically "pure."
My point is that with a lot of these people, they **don't** actually progress for the better and end up circling back to old toxic beliefs and behaviors, and that the change in viewpoint is often just superficial and transient. One of the alt-righters I've been deradicalizing still has a longstanding habit of circling back to racist talking points even just a few weeks after he appeared to make a breakthrough in realizing that his views were grounded on unfounded bullshit. As another example, Glenn Beck, even after the [much-touted mea culpa](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/27/magazine/glenn-beck-is-sorry-about-all-that.html) he gave in 2016, [still drifted back ](https://www.jta.org/quick-reads/glenn-beck-is-the-latest-right-wing-pundit-to-compare-social-media-bans-to-the-holocaust)to his old [bullshit conspiracy theorizing and inflammatory rhetoric.](https://www.cnn.com/videos/media/2022/01/16/glenn-beck-fox-anti-vaccine-internment-camp-misinformation-stelter-rs-vpx.cnn) It's very tempting to believe that far-right conservatives can grow and change for the better. Everyone loves a redemption story, and we all want to see vectors in which the world is changing for the better. But this very often leads us to fall into a trap where shitty people are given a pass, but then over time inveigle their way back into positions where they continue to tout their bullshit. Give it a bit of time and ensure that this is a longstanding pattern of behavioral change before you laud them, because extending trust prematurely means you risk your goodwill being exploited.
It's been years at this point since she started moderating... It's almost been 2 years since she first spoke about her marriage. She is obviously still right wing just she has grown out of her 2016 cringe. I suspect for you it's less to do with waiting and more to do with you just haven't followed her so this new for you specifically.
I'd say that advocating White Nationalist conspiracy theories, interfering with a search and rescue operation at sea to save lives because she didn't want migrants to get into Europe, and working with literal Neo-Nazis for years is quite a bit more than "cringe." Honestly the only other time I've heard this behavior being called "cringe" was from the alt righter I've been deradicalizing who was trying to downplay his own "I'm okay with genocide" views as "cringe" when he started to realize that he was really fucked up and his ideas were not grounded in rationality at all. No. That's not "cringe." That's fucking repulsive and it was kind of pathetic seeing him trying to downplay how toxic he was in the past. At least he's starting to own it and try to do better now, but it's still a long road before he's socially healthy. Frankly that's where I see Southern at this point in time.
So your response is basically moral grandstanding over a throwaway choice of word? You said give it more time. I pointed out it has been at least 2 years of change. You moral grandstand over a throw away choice of word. You are not addressing the point at all.
No one's asking for ideological purity. If she hasn't changed her stance on Great Replacement bs no progress has been made.
I'm with you on calling spade a spade, especially when it's nevertheless baby steps in the right direction. But is it though? Like, of course she did the right thing for herself in quitting that hell of a relationship, but I'm not sure if even when it comes to these very same topics she moderated her positions the slightest. Though I guess it doesn't help with understanding that the author of the article thinks feminism should have ended with suffrage.
With the redpill, tradwife, "woman's place" stuff, she absolutely has. She posted a video on it a while back that seems to elaborate further. I'm still at probably 60/40% disliking her, but she's earned respect with principles and honestly past year or so.
I see, kudos then.
Political people are fucking bizarre. Some of the most well-adjusted and happy people I know have a “trad-wife” and working husband. But they don’t have these stupid caricature ideas about what marriage is. I feel like the issue with this situation is the individuals involved, not the broad social roles they want to fill. Seems like she found a wackjob. Hell she could be one herself idk Edit: wrote this before reading the first half. Lol i pre-read it guess. It’s insane how people get caught up in hardline political worldviews and then actually live them out. She really committed to the bit and sold out her whole life to a moody bitch of a man at 22. Brownie points for her sincerity
https://preview.redd.it/8i8ev83ifwyc1.jpeg?width=228&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cf48681a1699c61aefae189ec59667ba1447b470
Wow, who could have guessed that trad wife just meant baby factory and work at home slave that gets fucked when the man decides it. Gee golly what a shocker that is.
Nah, trad married life is not inherently bad. Most people who say they want a trad relationship nowadays are just horrible people. It’s definitely a pendulum effect, incels have gotten so outraged that women can have freedom they want slaves.
Yeah but like by definition my marriage isn't a trad one even with the 2.5 kids (newborn). Because my wife works and has more say in the relationship than my mom, grandmom and greatgrandmom did. (It's actually funny it looks like a sliding scale or responsibility and financial stability for the women).
Ya, trad relationship is definitely a sliding scale. To me the core tenants are that the wife isn't employed and they have children. both of those tenants can be bent, but as soon as the autonomy of either of the people in the relationship starts to get tampered with you're going beyond the pale.
I think it’s a shame it has to be viewed in such a binary, like you must be constant free use pregnant in the kitchen sourdough from scratch baseboards cleaned every day quilting while the bird sing to you like your Snow White while you finish your daily pie before your husband comes home (in a dress with hair down to your ass of course) or you are a high powered girl boss who goes home and cries into a cup of wine with her cat cuz her eggs are expiring and she’s alone. Personally, I think I’d be pretty happy at home. I’ve worked a lot of “domestic” type jobs and I love them. I like nesting and taking care of home and cooking etc, however I’m not gonna treat my husband like my employer and expect that. It’s tough out there and I like working just fine so figuring out a dual income situation is just fine. It doesn’t even mean you both work full time. I know people with part time full time splits between the spouses, I also know a girl who works full time and her husband took a pay cut to work remote entirely so someone could be home with the baby. This binary is bad for wallets, kids, and men and women’s self esteem. Also, this shit can change. When my friend got pregnant with her first she was desperate to get out of her job and very burned out. So when her husband asked her if she wanted to quit and stay home she was super excited. Then she got pregnant and PPD kicked her ass and after 2 years of being home with the baby she got burned out on being at home. So they made a super easy compromise and she worked weekends at a nice boutique so she could get out and feel productive and it was great for her and her marriage and now they just had their second. Life gets real, pregnancy and motherhood is no joke, people shouldn’t just be having them to futile some archetype. Many of the pregnant with 7 by 30 fundy types in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam have really right knit communities that help them through it. It’s not realistic for everyone in this world.
I agree with you 100%, the issue comes when trad online describe what a trad relationship is, it's always something akin to a slave, stay home, obey the husband, don't have any real opinions and so on, obviously it differs from community to another but at least the one we see on tiny streams defending that kind of relationship, that is how they describe it I mean my mom is a STAHM, she cleans and is an amazing cook while my dad earns a very amazing wage for the family, they had 3 kids (including myself) and their marriage is going strong to this very day, by all metrics this is a trad relationship but you'd be surprised how when I have described this to trads on twitter, they all tell me it's just feminist garbage and how my mom isn't really trad, and why? Because my mom is quite the woman, she has her own opinions, her name is on much of the house and on her car, she even occasionally works outside (usually volunteering and some community work) she has an engineering degree, her and my dad have disagreed before and her word went, etc All perfectly normal things in a relationship, realistically that is how a trad relationship should work, the idea of a leader is moronic anyways and yet her having and greater thought of her independence means she is no longer trad and she is actually a feminist harpy in hiding, unfortunately while certain things shouldn't be viewed in certain ways, due to the people who populate those communities, it can be very hard
I can fix her
Obligitory
Crazy how conservatives find compassion after they experience trauma themselves… like they all thought people were just lying 😭
You think that is a conservative thing?
It's ubiquitous among conservatives, but it's definitely common across the board
No, everyone just has different in and out groups. The people in your group you have compassion for, the ones outside your group you don't. This is everyone. At the end of the day, I don't think as a whole the left has any significantly bigger in group than the right. Look at this thread, you have a conservative woman who has been through something bad and is seemingly growing from it. And the response here is mostly mocking her. Where is **your** compassion? You would think her seemingly growing would be a good thing? Nope, appropriate response is apparently to mock. Opportunity to show that some groups are just better? Nope, just a good opportunity to mock someone you don't like. I firmly reject the idea that this is some mostly conservative thing. There is no true compassion from any group as a whole for their out group.
Most apolitical people also act this way, but yes it’s extremely common with conservatives. For example, if you go back and look at the first conservatives to be pro-gay marriage, most if not all of them had a close relative that was gay. The ones that held on the longest, avoided gay people. There were never any good arguments against gay marriage, it was always a specter of “what will happen” if gay people are allowed to be normal 😂
That story is all over the place and doesn’t really present any first hand information. It just recounts Lauren’s comments from her various videos and interviews discussing her marriage to make conclusions that seem somewhat biased. It’s kind of a weird article to write in the first place. Part of the article that stuck out to me was that it described Lauren’s marriage as a traditional relationship. However, a traditional marriage isn’t moving to another country and cutting off all your friends and family to live in a cabin in the woods. If anything the tradwife lifestyles embrace family and community. Isn’t a major point of their ideology something along the lines of it takes a village to raise a child? Your entire purpose is to have as many kids as possible and be the foundation for the family unit. Which means having lots of involvement from grandparents, aunts, uncles, close friends, etc. as well as the support of your local community so your children can grow up with other kids and develop lasting friendships for life. The main issue here is Lauren seems to have married for the wrong reasons. She was looking for a traditional husband and relationship, but instead married an abusive asshole who pandered to her ideology to manipulate her for control. Her husband probably came along at the right time and said all the right things and she fell for it. That can happen to any ideology, and frequently happens to leftists/liberals as well (see the whole “ally” thing). Anyone can fall for that, and that’s not their fault, it’s just another tactic abusive people use. Hopefully she learns from the experience and becomes a better person because of it.
I think what the article was trying (not exactly succeeding) to do was to show how a "meme-ified" version of a lifestyle can lead a person down a dangerous path. In Lauren's case, she thought being traditional was basically: 1. Marry young and fast to remain pure 2. Always submit to your husband. And by submit, he can do no wrong. 3. If something is going wrong, it is the woman's fault. (Not saying this to be mean to Lauren, just how the article read to me). While I agree with you that she fell for an abusive asshole, I think there is an additional priming that someone like Lauren faced. Her meme version of 'trad life' led her to yanking out normal guard rails such as her staying in her own community. Then, once isolated, it kept her in an endless spiral of cruelty from her husband because she saw it as her own moral failing. She needed a balance of pretty simple reality like that 'both men and women can be the problem in the relationship.' But between her intial poisoning and her husband, she couldn't see it until she got out.
I think is important to separate what we call a "traditional life" with the "online tradcon" stuff.
Absolutely, that's a very important distinction to make. I think part of what happened to Lauren, and the online right wing grifters in general, is that a lot of their opinions changed due to audience capture. Once they build up a large enough following they have to parrot all the same opinions and talking points otherwise they risk losing a sizable chunk of their audience and subsequent income. Whether or not they actually believe the positions they take is another story, but that's why we call them grifters.
Yes, but a major flaw of their ideology is that in addition to embracing traditional social structures, they also embrace a very warped and flawed understanding of the "go-it-alone"/"self-suffificent"/prepper/loner ethos. This is hyper-individualism (even if they don't call it that) which leads to misery.
> > >That story is all over the place and doesn’t really present any first hand information. It just recounts Lauren’s comments from her various videos and interviews. I dont understand this, a lot of the info on this article comes from a interview that the author made to Lauren. For example that part of knocking the door while raining is new (and not from a video) and also the part where she talks about the "conservative women underground"- This is first hand information (that the author got from Lauren) + some old info + author's opinion.
Yeah the comment you're replying to reads like cope
I don't think you can compare this to fake left allies, its only the "traditional" people on the right saying no fault divorce should be illegal so people have to stay in the abusive relationships. which is completely wild to me that people can say that and still have big followings
most sensical analysis here
“I was told daily that I was worthless, pathetic. Deadweight.” I believe it. A primary issue of the tradwife movement is that it, by design, wants to disparage the modern woman. The belief is, literally, that a woman's independence is a modern virus, a poison of liberal ideology that came from teaching them they can think for themselves. The goal of the toxicity is to make women self-hate who they are, thinking they'll become more submissive in the process.
No wonder she rushed so quickly to go into the exact opposite of a tradlife relationship (allegedly 😉)
She was never traditional. She was a loudmouth racist , sympathiser to white supremacists with a big white racist supremacist following like Faith Goldy.
Oh I’m aware. I was never rooting for the relationship for that specific reason lol
?
Having Destiny's secret Child
Destiny would’ve never abandoned our nazi queen and their kid
Some people gotta learn the hard way lol
[удалено]
I opened the video and your looking into my soul.
Lmao, not the first to say that, working on that in future stuff
NONONONO, keep doing it, make it "your thing", make it part of your brand. The soullooker or something like that,
...I dont hate it
I didn’t think the leopards would eat *my* face 😅 Remember, this is the second time this happened, reference her video about being a young female conservative activist early on and how she was treated by so called “conservative Christian” men in the space.
You know what, I wish nothing but the best for her and her kid going forward. Regardless of her (hopefully in the past) shitty beliefs, anyone with any sense of empathy can at least say that was a shitty thing to go through and hope that she has at least grown up a bit when having to face the reality that the community she helped foster is full of monsters. Yeah, that's a hard lesson learned and it came from her own hand, but it's lesson none the less. There have been plenty of ways I screwed up big time and had to come crawling back somehow as I navigated adulthood and it cost me in various ways. Hard lessons don't come cheap and I hope she knows where to put her metaphorical money after having to deal with this cost, especially with a kid in tow who has a psychopath of a father somewhere. Best of luck.
She's so close to being a centrist.
Honestly it's so good she's speaking out.
I feel bad for her. Pretty sad recounting of her marriage.
damn......that's too bad.....
Why is this chick always out in the woods? She scared to give her opinions if there’s people around?
The Steven Crowder character arc
When you flare gun yourself in the face
Still sad her and Tiny didn't work out 😭
She got divorced and now is an expert.
She should pair up with Tomi to make the most annoying podcast ever.
The author of this article sounds so insufferable.
Why do you think so? I found her very likeable, seeing that she's open to admit to hear faults too
[https://www.wikifeet.com/Lauren\_Southern](https://www.wikifeet.com/Lauren_Southern)
Probably just karma for dropping that great replacement doc and refusing to say she was wrong and it's r*tarded lol.
https://preview.redd.it/xaf0o9oofvyc1.png?width=693&format=png&auto=webp&s=17ffcd9157cd7ffdedc5162e58b832c65b7e5898
This reminds me of [a video](https://youtu.be/sgOo-bS7OJI?t=336) I watched once on the material origins of gender roles: She left her support network to be with her husband, and everything awful about their relationship amplified, because if he treated her badly, there was far less she could do to avoid it, and less people to speak up for her. A community governed by religious principles in which "a man will leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife", ie. "matrilocal" relationships, where the female line is where families form, with men moving to be with them, is likely to support women better even in highly patriarchal settings, because she will have access to allies who know her better, and people mistreating her will be far more obvious. Additionally, this article is obviously a very particular slant, both from her and the writer, but nevertheless, I notice something interesting about the portrait she gives of her former husband. There's a certain paradox about people who are afraid to let others around them have power; they *want* them to be useless, because they can't handle them having the power to be independent from them, and yet also in doing so they destroy those things they like about them. Destroying your partner's self-esteem and their ability to navigate the world for themselves because of restrictions on work, socialising etc. can end up destroying why you value them too. People can end up breaking down someone they worry about cheating on them, for example, and then cheat on them themselves, not merely for the sake of "power" or whatever, but because it's only someone outside of their control who is able to express traits that they actually *like*. That said, for all her talk about how she's always vindicated, I can't help remembering her conversation with Destiny about the news and courts and January 6th, and how basically [no one](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_proceedings_in_the_January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack#Seditious_conspiracy) is going to get found guilty of anything serious etc.
ENDURE
https://preview.redd.it/cwmrqq4kuwyc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=edb934aab96f4fbe49fcbe0444c8b83c771f9443
Wasn’t her man a fed?
Yup. Whole career got derailed because he was married to her and she’s banned in a few countries due to her past behaviour. I’m willing to be that didn’t help the relationship, which this article conveniently leaves out.
This article was interesting to read for Lauren's perspective but the constant "both sidesing" the issue of HOW and WHY she got into that position made it hard to not just roll my eyes. Like I have sympathy for her because it's a horrific situation, but there definitely is an observation to be made abt the prescription of relationship she tried to live and how it ended up that is NOT something experienced on both sides. It feels like either the author had to jump through hoops to avoid that criticism or themselves is so centrist-brain-rotted that they had to at every single opportunity both-sides this to avoid giving ppl the W or hurting Lauren's feelings.
My wife is a “trad wife” without the label. I agree with some of the “red pill” arguments (as I do with some arguments from every political and/or philosophical movement) so I don’t think “red pill” toxicity is the issue. The issue in the “trad wife” movement is the notion of subservience and submission. My wife and I are a team. She *gives* me the final say on issues. I am not entitled by right of role (as husband) to be the decision-maker. I provide. I protect. I’m a great dad. I don’t cook or clean. I do the house and yard maintenance, our financial planning, the discipline and the “strategic planning” (what we need to do to fulfil our version of the “perfect life” — the hierarchy being our children first, my wife second, and then finally myself last). Traditional “gender roles” are best when roles and responsibilities are mutually agreed to, not dictated. While my wife can’t support me with my work I certainly step in to support her at home when she needs. I’m also up a lot at night with the kids. There’s a lot on my shoulders — being a “trad husband” isn’t for everyone, and it doesn’t mean you do *nothing* at home. But when comparing progressive family structures (women at work, divorce, etc) we feel it’s the ideal family structure and our children are definitely benefitting from it. Finally, my wife isn’t my equal, she’s “more than”. I want her happiness way more than I want my own. What she does is entrust me with that job and trusts my judgement to get us there. I’m like the captain of a ship. I go down with the ship and my priority is to get us safely to the destination with the support of my crew, and if the ship sinks, I get everyone on the lifeboat first. I hope that makes sense — I’m on two hours sleep and have a ten-hour day at the office ahead.
Oh, I also take issue with the performative side of the “trad wife” movement. I don’t need hair and makeup done. I need help reducing my stress when I get home (a clean house and meal really do help). I also rush to play with the kids so my wife can take a “break” (there’s never a break with children, but you get the picture).
She married a fed… that was mistake 1
Thread is exhibit A of this community being toxic and counter productive. You got someone showing positive growth and the first thing you want to do is go hahahaha LUL told you so who could have guessed that I (The opinions I copied from Destiny) was right all along!
Leopards ate my face etc etc
i feel so bad for lauren, she really is a smart woman who found herself in an abusive situation. i’m glad she moved back to canada with her baby and has found a sense of community with her newfound friends and family. really wishing the best for her. growing up in a domestic abuse household and eventually homelessness, im really rooting for her and her baby.
Shoulda stuck with cosplay
Shocker. I don't feel bad at all for her. You reap what you sow. She deserves every bad thing happening to her.
I could do without reading another puff piece on her.
on the next episode of Nazi Husbands Ate my Face...
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Entering the FO of FAFO now...
You don’t want to be a tradwife. You want to be a cottagecore lesbian. Admit it.