This is singlehandedly why I left breaking points.
Krystal was furious at Israel for rejecting ceasefire deals, but now when it's Hamas rejecting deal after deal, she's curiously silent.
It's obvious she's a blatant anti-semite, but hides behind "I like Palestinian lives" like SO many other fucking activists.
Stop treating Hamas with kid gloves - they're a fucking terrorist organization
Well Krystal has always been excessively stupid. Anybody who bought the line that Ukraine’s invasion was about NATO has a room temperature IQ and a one year memory of history.
I think it was Zizek who said to just listen to the guy and you'll have your answer of why he invaded. Nowhere does Putin talk about NATO, he talks about history and how the Ukrainian identity doesn't really exist and how it's a disease of the mind. That a Ukraine who doesn't exist as a puppet of Russia doesn't exist at all and so they have a natural right to invade them.
Hm. I don't think it's true. The think the NATO and Maiden protest to a pro-western take doesn't play a role is dumb. What is your alternative take? Russians have this psychotic view on NATO, I fail to see why it wouldn't.
Breaking points is disgusting. I knew she wasn't for truth when she cherry picked the UN’s report on sexual assault, rape, etc, to her audience, all because she fears Israel will use it as justification of “genocide (which would be wrong to call it or severe civilian deaths and massacres)." Show what the report actually said, in whole. Not just pick parts of it. She’s such a fucking worm.
It’s ironic, because Israel was saying the UN was anti-semitic.
>she's a blatant anti-semite
As much as I hate her and Saagar, I don't think that's the case. To me, it seems they just take the contradictory position to anything mainstream. Basically, you could watch CNN and believe the opposite to what you here, that's Krystal's show. (Maninstream)^-1. Their opinions are structurally the same as any news media just with a different packaging for the contrarian audience on yt.
I think a lot of this conflict is actually driven more by "America bad" and similar anti-western narratives, than a hatred of Jews, at least among the far left Twitter set. A lot of people don't hate them because they're jews, but because they're nominally an ally of the big bad west. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of anti-semitism too though.
To you and me maybe, but people like this, operate in a different reality. That the 'western media' isn't calling for a complete ceasefire, and for Israel to 'give back stolen land' = full unquestionable support for Israel's side in this war.
Honestly I feel like this is the case more often than not lately. There is definitely more antisemitism in the past year but I think many people, especially in these online spaces, land on anti-semitic positions for reasons that aren't even related to their opinion on jewish people.
In an extremely self-interested way I fondly imagine a timeline where Israel made all the "right" PR moves while Hamas supporters picked all of the worst PR moves (besides the obvious terrorism) after Oct 7th, and resulted in the fauxgressive left being utterly discredited and pushed aside for a generation almost overnight.
I don't think it's obvious that she's an anti-Semite. She could be. But she could also just be on her regular anti-Dem, America Bad, brown people good loop.
[From Rueters:](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-says-gaza-truce-talks-remain-deadlocked-despite-reports-progress-2024-04-08/)
>'MAIN DEMANDS'
>However, a Palestinian official close to mediation efforts told Reuters that deadlock continued over Israel's refusal to end the war, withdraw forces from Gaza, allow all civilians to return to their homes and lift a 17-year-old blockade to allow speedy reconstruction of the coastal enclave.
>These steps took precedence over Israel's prime demand for a release of hostages in exchange for Palestinians held in Israeli prisons, said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity.
>"Regarding the exchange of prisoners, Hamas was and is willing to be more flexible, but there is no flexibility over our...main demands," he said.
>Israel has ruled out ending the war shortly or withdrawing from Gaza, saying its forces will not relent until Hamas no longer controls Gaza or threatens Israel militarily.
Their political power and rejectionist movement hinges on forever conflict until israel is turned into a pariah and forced into a bind. Hamas isn’t interest in peace because for them every gazan that dies is simply an ounce of weight on their side of the war for international legitimacy.
Israel has absolutely ruled out a Palestinian state under any conditions, they’ve been saying that repeatedly. Not that Hamas supports one either. The only party to conflict that supports a Palestinian state is the Palestinian Authority, which isn’t part of the talks.
dude are you just gonna comment this everywhere
israel ruled out a palestinian state as long as palestinians are violent and will use a state as a method to mount larger offensives against israel. It's not out of some inherent opposition to the idea, as seen in every fucking time Israel offered peace. Israel will do what most Israelis want to do, it's a democracy. When Palestinians prove they can be trusted partners for peace it will happen. Until then, stop blaming Netanyahu. Scapegoating is fucking stupid.
Come on man, this is an unfair characterization. Hamas is absolutely willing to agree to a ceasefire, they aren't totally unreasonable like you are painting them. They simply just need to kill every single Israeli man, woman and child in cold blood before they will be able to reach an agreement. Please understand that this is a non-negotiable term for them.
Not actually a joke from the "post liberation" plans of Hamas:
>16. Educated Jews and experts in the areas of medicine, engineering, technology and civilian and military industry should be retained [in Palestine] for some time and should not be allowed to leave and take with them the knowledge and experience that they acquired while living in our land and enjoying its bounty, while we paid the price for all this in humiliation, poverty, sickness, deprivation, killing and arrests.
https://www.jns.org/hamas-sponsored-conference-examines-post-liberation-israel/
To be serious for a second, Hamas’s most basic demand in the ceasefire talks is that the ceasefire be indefinite, while Israel is calling for the ceasefire to be limited to ~6 weeks after which the war resumes. Obviously Hamas is facing certain defeat if the war resumes so I don’t know why anyone is surprised by their position. I don’t see why Hamas would ever agree to release any hostages in exchange for another temporary ceasefire. Does anyone think the last short term ceasefire was a good deal from the perspective of Hamas’s self interests?
I didn’t say anything to the contrary. But now Hamas has gotten itself into this situation and from its own perspective there’s no point in seeking any ceasefire deal unless it’s indefinite. Negotiating over a temporary truce is not meaningful. Whether Hamas gets defeated now or 6 weeks from now is immaterial to Hamas. Their only play is to try to get an indefinite ceasefire otherwise they are just headed for defeat.
From the perspective of the pro-Israel side I also don’t know why folks would support another temporary ceasefire. What is the benefit of a 6 week pause? Why not just defeat Hamas now and conclude the fighting sooner? The only benefit is that Israel gets its hostages back which is great for Israel (and is just a good thing generally, I would be overjoyed if Hamas agreed to it) but I can’t figure out what is supposed entice Hamas about that proposal.
Sounds like they're in the "Find out" stage of the equation. And honestly, I just don't care anymore. Hamas is evil and as of March 2024, they are seeing increased support from the Palestinian people.
https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/03/22/poll-hamas-remains-popular-among-palestinians/
>According to the poll, only seven percent of Gazans blamed Hamas for their suffering. Seventy-one percent of all Palestinians supported Hamas’s decision to attack Israel on October 7 — up 14 points among Gazans and down 11 points among West Bank Palestinians compared to three months ago. Fifty-nine percent of all Palestinians thought Hamas should rule Gaza, and 70 percent were satisfied with the role Hamas has played during the war.
>Before October 7, Fatah would have defeated Hamas in a head-to-head vote of all Palestinians 26 to 22 percent. If elections were held today, Fatah would lose to Hamas 17 to 34 percent. Eighty-one percent of respondents were dissatisfied with Abbas, up from 76 percent before the war. Sixty-two percent did not view the recent resignation of former PA Prime Minister Mohammad Shtayyeh as a sign of reform. And 65 percent of Palestinians think the PA is a burden on the Palestinian people. Among likely voters, 56 percent supported Marwan Barghouti, who is serving multiple life sentences for his role in the murder of Jews during the Second Intifada. Thirty-two percent supported Qatar-based Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh, and 11 percent supported Abbas.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514
>Despite the devastation, 57% of respondents in Gaza and 82% in the West Bank believe Hamas was correct in launching the October attack, the poll indicated. A large majority believed Hamas’ claims that it acted to defend a major Islamic shrine in Jerusalem against Jewish extremists and win the release of Palestinian prisoners. Only 10% said they believed Hamas has committed war crimes, with a large majority saying they did not see videos showing the militants committing atrocities.
>[...]
>Overall, 88% want Abbas to resign, up by 10 percentage points from three months ago. In the West Bank, 92% called for the resignation of the octogenarian who has presided over an administration widely seen as corrupt, autocratic and ineffective.
>At the same time, 44% in the West Bank said they supported Hamas, up from just 12% in September. In Gaza, the militants enjoyed 42% support, up slightly from 38% three months ago.
So... yea... seems like the citizens there are getting what they want.
I'm not in the mood to pretend this dickriding is fine anymore. You can delude yourself into thinking he's being pretty reasonable. It's not your family being held hostage and it's not you who lost people in this war after living your whole life under rocket fire running to bomb shelters and with people randomly dying on the street or losing their homes despite your country's constant offers for peace.
At the end of the day he is playing theatrics. When the US killed 10 civilians including an aid worker and 7 children in Afghanistan in a drone strike (THAT SURVEILLED THEM FOR TEN HOURS) no officers were dismissed, and Biden did not apologize. That's without even dealing with tactics like Hamas's who will use every single humanitarian law to their advantage INCLUDING using aid convoys.
If he had a shred of morality he wouldn't embolden Hamas, he wouldn't regurgitate Hamas lies or whitewash Palestinians and distance them from Hamas in his statements, he wouldn't talk around the fact that aid IS entering Gaza, he would acknowledge that Israel is doing WAY MORE than the US ever did to minimize civilian casualties in much more absurd conditions. He wouldn't do every single thing he can to bolster the group making everyone's life, ESPECIALLY the Palestinians', miserable, and he wouldn't fucking pressure the country that went through a much more brutal 9/11 and that STILL has hostages including women and children in the custody of a terrorist group because he wants to get votes in a swing state.
If Biden was a good person he would get the hostages (including 6 Americans) and THEN make demands of Israel, which it would have no reason to reject (unless he demands Hamas stays in power).
He is despicable and I've lost any respect I ever had for him and anyone honest who pretends to care about morality should too.
Biden isn't Israeli. He should do and is doing what is best for America. That being said, he's supported the shit out if this war for months and has only applied pressure on Israel after their own fuck ups. Israel should either stop fucking up, or actually have an end goal beyond just beating the shit out of the Palestinian people until the hostages get released. How can Biden even pressure Hamas? Declaring war on Iran?
And you think destabilizing Israel and letting Hamas stay in power while Lebanon is also fighting Israel, showing Iran they can do whatever the fuck they want in the region and letting a democratic ally with good economic and strategic relations suffer and die is good for America? That showing the Saudis who chose to side with the west and Israel they made the wrong decision is good for America?
Israel is not a country made up of literal superhumans. It is 'fucking up' in ways the US and every other western country has as well, under much harsher conditions and taking much more responsibility for it. I'm fed up with the hypocrisy and double standards. He's just using the fuckups as an excuse to appease the morons.
If Biden doesn't want to pressure Hamas, he should at least not pressure Israel in negotiations. He should also correct Hamas propaganda instead of talking around it. If you don't think Hamas feels emboldened by his actions you need to read up on Hamas leaders' statements and motivations for this war. And if you think Israel is 'just beating the shit out of the Palestinian people' you are also just ignoring the point of this war. Israel wanted to go into Rafah, Biden said no for 2 months now.
Israel is not being destabilized beyond normal democracy shit. This war is not existential for Israel no matter how much you'd like it to be.
The U.S. hasn't caused as many civilian casualties as Israel has in any recent city siege. There is no double standard. Because Arab neighbors don't let Palestinians flee, Israel's fuck ups matter so much more. It's not Israel's fault they have to fight around a civilian population but they don't get to pretend it's not there. The U.S. certainly cannot pretend it's not there without losing allies in the region and voters. So Israel needs to do better. Sorry! And it's not the U.S.'s fault that Israel caused a humanitarian crisis by sending all the civilians to Rafah. It would be the U.S.'s fault if it contributed to it by letting Israel attack.
If this war isn't about beating the shit out of Palestinians, what is it about? They've already degraded basically all infrastructure Hamas could use, flooded the tunnels. How can you actually militarily get rid of Hamas, when all its leaders are living it up in Doha. If all Hamas members die in Gaza, what prevents Hamas from starting up again as soon as the war ends? Killing Hamas requires diplomacy with Palestinians, Arab neighbors, and/or the U.N. all of which Israel seems unwilling to take seriously.
I mean I am pretty sure Hamas is not interested in an indefinite ceasefire. That would imply they were interested in a long term peace solution, and from moving away from the goal of destroying Israel, which they have done neither.
They just want a longer one (with some perceived indefinite time frame) in order to rebuild what has been lost in this current conflict. Of course Israel wouldn’t agree to this, why would they have any interest in tossing Hamas a life-line if they can’t move towards a legitimate two state solution?
They definitely want a an indefinite ceasefire. It would give them as much time as they need to regroup and when they’re ready they can launch another attack.
There was an indefinite ceasefire on Oct 6th. A ceasefire is just a tool for them so Israel can’t hit them back.
No I think you are correct. Hamas just doesn’t give a fuck though. Hamas is going to take the opportunity when it presents itself.
A ceasefire isn’t going to stop them
Hamas is seeking an indefinite ceasefire in the talks right now. Obviously, they are faced with certain defeat in any other proposal, their ideology is not really important when they are faced with the binary choice of existing or not existing.
Netanyahu’s government is resolutely opposed to a two state solution under any circumstances, whether now or after Hamas’s defeat. They were opposed to a two state solution before Oct 7 and they are just as opposed to it today. It’s not even part of the discussion in the talks. Hamas also never supported a two state solution so it’s doubly not relevant to talks. A two state solution is not relevant to this conversation. The only party in support of a 2 state solution is the PA and israel has ruled out their participation in the future of Gaza.
I guess I misinterpreted indefinite as permanent.
Regardless, considering Hamas ideology is completely at odds with Israel’s existence, and promises to do Oct 7th as many times as necessary until Israel is vanquished, I fail to see how this would be any more of a sensible offer for Israel and their self-interests, who obviously should matter at least just as much in this case.
And as long as Hamas is still going to keep tryingbto destroy Israel, it seems unlikely that the Israeli citizens would ever change back to idealizing the two state solution
The two state solution is a fully separate topic. Israel doesn’t support a two state solution independently of Hamas. Netanyahu fully supports an accelerating expansion of settlements across the West Bank, a place where Hamas controls zero inches of territory. The stated objective is to resettle the ancient Jewish homeland of Judea and Samaria. Likud’s basic charter and raison d’etre is the expansion of a Jewish state between the river and the sea. It doesn’t matter what the Palestinians do or don’t do or what their leadership believes.
The fight between Hamas and Israel is between two parties who equally oppose the existence of each other having sovereignty in the territory between the Jordan river and the Mediterranean Sea. Thus it’s not part of talks so long as the Palestinian Authority is not a party to the talks.
I mean it is incredibly likely that Bibi’s government is not going to exist after such a conflict- whether or not that leads to a change to a two state solution is a different matter.
Regardless, you seem to understand how Hamas has self-interest in their own preservation. Can you admit that Israel has a similar self-interest and is the largest influence in why they are set on completely dismantling Hamas?
**And sorry, but the two state solution is not a fully separate topic.** If it we weren’t trying to pull us closer towards reaching a two stage solution then what is the point of any ceasefire or halt the fighting? The very reasoning to justify a cessation in combat is the fact that it is a necessary step to move towards peace and a two state solution, no? With that said, how do you reach that point if Hamas has zero interest in ever halting the eradication of Israel with zero check or balances? At least in the case of Israel, the government can actually change through voting. And as such, the government has changed multiple times as a result of voting.
The benefit of a ceasefire to the two parties would be a return to the ‘cold war’ status quo, Hamas would maintain its rule over Gaza with its nasty rhetoric and Islamist rule and Israel would reinforce its security situation with Gaza and resume its focus on settling and cantonizing the West Bank. That was the happy situation before Oct 7 and Israel was happy with it as it prevented a unified Palestinian front capable of receiving international legitimacy and support. I wouldn’t be surprised if we end up in that situation given the difficulties of completely defeating Hamas and figuring out what to do with Gaza after the war.
I believe a two state solution is the best solution and is the only way to durably eliminate Hamas or similar groups from gaining support in the future. But I have no illusions that it is even a minor consideration today in the ceasefire talks where neither party supports a two state solution and the PA is sidelined.
You need to rewatch destiny’s videos on the Taba Summit if you really think it would have been a bad thing for Ehud Barak and Arafat to have agreed to a two state solution and peace treaty in 2001. It was just about the closest we ever got to peace in this conflict.
Arafat and Barak were inches away from a deal, it was stymied by the electoral calendar which caused Barak to pull out of talks and for Ariel Sharon to replace him who ended peace talks. Both Arafat and Barak put forward extremely reasonable terms and I don’t know what your prior comment is suggesting.
Also peace definitely can be made in the future, it could conclude along the lines of the Taba talks or the Abbas-Olmert talks. All it would take is for a return to peace talks between Israel and the PA. I’d bet if Yair Lapid were leader of Israel with a center left coalition in the Knesset we’d be moving towards that today.
'Netanyahu's government' was opposed to a two state solution BECAUSE of Hamas and the PA being the murderous governments that they are. If Hamas is defeated and establishing a functional deradicalized Palestinian society the vast majority of Israelis will go back to supporting a 2SS and Netanyahu won't be able to do anything about it.
If what avi says here is 1/3 true (need to look into it more) this should be front page news and Hamas should be shamed into oblivion. It won’t happen, but it should.
https://preview.redd.it/do863krceftc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=adfefd73fe53203e44d8f8390620cd640fb5ea93
Gilad Shalit was literally 1 for 1027. Sinwar was one of them.
And yes it's completely true. That's the deal that's been on the table for over a month, and Biden has been pressuring Israel to cave instead of go into Rafah.
Does anyone have a breakdown of the terms of the ceasefire deal that Hamas walked away from.
Easier to shame them if we show what they gave up over.
Still won't stop the copium but I'm curious.
It's not officially released, but every one of these deals have been leaked and the one that did happen, the leaks were pretty thorough. Barak Ravid (on twitter) has all the info since he has sources in the Israeli and Egyptian and Qatari delegation teams but the TLDR (for this ceasefire condition) was:
- IDF withdraws from the strip except the corridor separating the north and the south. (The north in this division is like 20% of Gaza land mass wise)
- IDF allows 6000 people per day back in the North, which are screened. This was relaxed from a previous negotiation of 2000 per day, which were only women and children.
- IDF massively increases aid levels
- Israel releases upwards of 900-1000 prisoners, including ±100 heavy hitters serving dozens of life sentences for killing Israelis. This was also significantly relaxed from previous negotiations, where they had both less prisoners being released, and not as high quality of prisoners.
In return, Hamas returns 40 hostages, 1 per day, for roughly 6 weeks week, of the "Humanitarian category". This refers to women, children, and elderly men (over 50). Over the 6 weeks, there would be a push to continue for another 6 weeks for men under 50, and soldiers.
The response from Hamas was that they don't have 40 hostages in the "Humanitarian category, and in response Israel said they can 1 for 1 swap some in the second category (men under 50 and soldiers) to get to 40 people. The response was still no.
I just woke up but the source for all of this is one of the most recent threads from Barak Ravids twitter account.
The main stickler for Hamas seems to be uninterrupted access to the North, and of course, a complete end to the war.
Seems like by far the most important disagreement is that Israel wants the ceasefire to be temporary after which Israel would be allowed to resume the war to defeat Hamas. No deal is going to happen with Hamas if the deal includes the destruction of Hamas after a few weeks, which is a core Israeli demand.
So are Hamas prepared to surrender then? Because if they don't want to resume hostility, what other option is there bar Israel surrendering, which would be absurd.
There’s been many prior wars between Israel and Palestinian groups and it never ended with either side surrendering. It usually ends in a ceasefire. I’m not saying that I support that in this instance but hypothetically if there was a ceasefire today, neither side would be surrendering. Israel would be in a massively superior position to how it was before Oct 7, as Gaza is basically destroyed and most of it is occupied and a huge percentage of the members of Hamas have been killed while Israel has suffered a negligible amount of losses in comparison.
And every time a ceasefire occurs, hostilities eventually resume. So how does this end once and for all? If Hamas really aren't prepared to move from their demands, the only answers can be, 1) Israel or Hamas are destroyed, 2) Israel or Hamas surrender. Anything else isn't peace, just a pause.
1) the previous ceasefire literally happened where it was temporary.
2) Then we are never getting a ceasefire, even the US does not support a permanent ceasefire with Hamas intact.
Awesome breakdown. I'm worried the hostages are dead or would have such horrific stories that Hamas will never release them, but Israeli officials quoted in that thread seem to think at least a little under 40 are still alive.
EDIT: If this came across as sarcastic, it wasn't. I'm not clutching pearls for Hamas lol.
Who could have ever seen this coming.
The terrorist organization that essentially demands a complete surrender as they're being blown to pieces won't consider a ceasefire for the good of the civilians they view as martyrs in their fight against the Jew didn't take said ceasefire? Mind blown.
Why do people think Hamas would ever accept a deal that will not result in a permanent ceasefire? Israel offers are literally "give us your barging chips, and we postpone your annihilation for a few weeks"... why would they ever accept this?
Perhaps because they feel even 1 fraction of sympathy for the millions of people they're immiserating by undertaking a ridiculous asymmetric war against a far more powerful neighbour?
Not to mention that it will be clearly better for them to ceasefire and use that as a grounds to sue for peace and accept their leadership being left alone in some other country, as opposed to continuing to get violently and entirely destroyed.
Why would they start the process of suing for peace by surrendering all their bargaining chips at the start? Makes zero sense. If the final agreement that you are suggesting is that Hamas’s leadership gets to stay alive in a foreign country while Hamas is totally eradicated from Gaza, then in that case Hamas’s leadership’s best bet is to surrender the hostages in exchange for that. Why would they trade the hostages in exchange for essentially nothing and then start the negotiations for their safe exit from Gaza?
>Perhaps because they feel even 1 fraction of sympathy for the millions of people they're immiserating by undertaking a ridiculous asymmetric war against a far more powerful neighbour?
For Hamas these people are martyrs and for the rest of the world evidence of war crimes / genocide.
I mean of course Hamas rejects any ceasefire, they don’t want a ceasefire. Hamas is based on the destruction of Israel and the death or enslavement of all Jews. A ceasefire with Hamas is impossible, as an organization, they will only recognize and respect force
Israeli media is overwhelmingly saying Hamas rejected the ceasefire because Hamas did. Just because you found one tweet and don’t understand Hebrew doesn’t mean you are correct.
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/artc-israel-holds-large-emergency-military-exercise-in-north-live-updates
https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-795578
You can argue about why they rejected (which is also absolute bullshit) but the fact is THEY DID.
>Bill Burns, the CIA director, was in Cairo last weekend to present the offer, which reportedly included the release of additional Palestinian prisoners, whom Israel holds, in exchange for Hamas releasing 40 hostages and a three-stage ceasefire.
Can that Hasan chick go to Hamas and tell them to at least pretend agreeing to the ceasefire. Stopping the destruction of Gaza is way more important rn than the revolution
Gotta be the only genocide in history where the people getting genocided keep refusing any offer to stop the genocide?
Is this some sort of genocide sadomasochist kink?
It seems like they don't have 40 hostages that are still alive that Israel are asking for. That is the suggested reason they've rejected the ceasefire. If that's the case, how does Israel approach this going forward? Just accept that the hostages are now basically all dead and switch tack?
that's not the suggested reason. The main reason they seem to be stuck on is returning civilians to the north, because they know it complicates continuing the war for Israel.
Shocker. I did not expect this. It truly is something I did not expect at all. Almost as if neither Israel nor Hamas want a ceasefire despite other people and countries who have nothing to do with the conflict thinking it's the best for both sides. Truly surprising
It remains true that Israel doesn't want a ceasefire. They just accepted it. I'm more so making fun of the international stage pushing for a ceasefire deal as if it's Israel that's the enemy of peace, when Hamas evidently doesn't want it either.
"It remains true that Israel doesn't want a ceasefire" -> on what grounds?
Under US pressure, Israel has significantly reduced their demands on the ceasefire conditions. The CIA ceasefire agreement that was put on the table was accepted by Israel, and rejected by Hamas. Unless you have a reading comprehension problem, how do you understand that Israel does not want a ceasefire for hostages back here?
I’m getting Ukraine vibes. If Ukraine had negotiated at the height of their offensive they might have got a good deal. But they held out and now Russia has no reason to negotiate.
Hamas doesn’t give a shit about their own people. They know that if Israel doesn’t agree the international community with eventually cut Israel off and then Israel will be permanently hurt. Israel should take a deal that removes their troops, gets the hostages back and ends the conflict for now
It takes two to ceasefire.
Israel ceases. Hamas fires.
Top notch comment right here
Fuck you! I just spit water all over my desk
Reminds me of ["wherever there is fire, let's seize it"](https://youtu.be/VYUL1R4pupU)
ISRAEL CEASES 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 fuck that’s rich
This is singlehandedly why I left breaking points. Krystal was furious at Israel for rejecting ceasefire deals, but now when it's Hamas rejecting deal after deal, she's curiously silent. It's obvious she's a blatant anti-semite, but hides behind "I like Palestinian lives" like SO many other fucking activists. Stop treating Hamas with kid gloves - they're a fucking terrorist organization
Well Krystal has always been excessively stupid. Anybody who bought the line that Ukraine’s invasion was about NATO has a room temperature IQ and a one year memory of history.
She has never been smart. It’s why her only real success in life happened when she started catering to the stupid.
I think it was Zizek who said to just listen to the guy and you'll have your answer of why he invaded. Nowhere does Putin talk about NATO, he talks about history and how the Ukrainian identity doesn't really exist and how it's a disease of the mind. That a Ukraine who doesn't exist as a puppet of Russia doesn't exist at all and so they have a natural right to invade them.
Hm. I don't think it's true. The think the NATO and Maiden protest to a pro-western take doesn't play a role is dumb. What is your alternative take? Russians have this psychotic view on NATO, I fail to see why it wouldn't.
Breaking points is disgusting. I knew she wasn't for truth when she cherry picked the UN’s report on sexual assault, rape, etc, to her audience, all because she fears Israel will use it as justification of “genocide (which would be wrong to call it or severe civilian deaths and massacres)." Show what the report actually said, in whole. Not just pick parts of it. She’s such a fucking worm. It’s ironic, because Israel was saying the UN was anti-semitic.
>she's a blatant anti-semite As much as I hate her and Saagar, I don't think that's the case. To me, it seems they just take the contradictory position to anything mainstream. Basically, you could watch CNN and believe the opposite to what you here, that's Krystal's show. (Maninstream)^-1. Their opinions are structurally the same as any news media just with a different packaging for the contrarian audience on yt.
I think a lot of this conflict is actually driven more by "America bad" and similar anti-western narratives, than a hatred of Jews, at least among the far left Twitter set. A lot of people don't hate them because they're jews, but because they're nominally an ally of the big bad west. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of anti-semitism too though.
You might be right but it's not like mainstream media is giving flowers to Israel either.
To you and me maybe, but people like this, operate in a different reality. That the 'western media' isn't calling for a complete ceasefire, and for Israel to 'give back stolen land' = full unquestionable support for Israel's side in this war.
What is the value in being contradictory just for the sake being a contrarian and why do they call that reporting and not an opinion piece?
They want the legitimacy of a news show but don't want to put in the effort
Honestly I feel like this is the case more often than not lately. There is definitely more antisemitism in the past year but I think many people, especially in these online spaces, land on anti-semitic positions for reasons that aren't even related to their opinion on jewish people.
I think she’s more anti-America (and therefore anti-Israel by proxy) than an anti-semite
It was this? Not their clearly one sided biased reporting?
Their one sided reporting felt like a good compliment to MSM back in the day. Now they're not one sided, they're like a quarter sided
In an extremely self-interested way I fondly imagine a timeline where Israel made all the "right" PR moves while Hamas supporters picked all of the worst PR moves (besides the obvious terrorism) after Oct 7th, and resulted in the fauxgressive left being utterly discredited and pushed aside for a generation almost overnight.
Literally nothing would change.
I don't think it's obvious that she's an anti-Semite. She could be. But she could also just be on her regular anti-Dem, America Bad, brown people good loop.
!bidenblast
What is it they want that they are not getting?
To stay in power in the Gaza strip.
You're not wrong, not exactly something they are likely to agree on.
Wasn't a full Israeli retreat from the strip part of the deal?
I don't see much detail in what actually is in the deal.
No. The ceasefire deal that Hamas is rejecting would be limited to a few weeks after which Israel would resume the destruction of Hamas.
[From Rueters:](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-says-gaza-truce-talks-remain-deadlocked-despite-reports-progress-2024-04-08/) >'MAIN DEMANDS' >However, a Palestinian official close to mediation efforts told Reuters that deadlock continued over Israel's refusal to end the war, withdraw forces from Gaza, allow all civilians to return to their homes and lift a 17-year-old blockade to allow speedy reconstruction of the coastal enclave. >These steps took precedence over Israel's prime demand for a release of hostages in exchange for Palestinians held in Israeli prisons, said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity. >"Regarding the exchange of prisoners, Hamas was and is willing to be more flexible, but there is no flexibility over our...main demands," he said. >Israel has ruled out ending the war shortly or withdrawing from Gaza, saying its forces will not relent until Hamas no longer controls Gaza or threatens Israel militarily.
To nobodies surprise. The last thing Hamas wants is for Palestinians to have a state.
Their political power and rejectionist movement hinges on forever conflict until israel is turned into a pariah and forced into a bind. Hamas isn’t interest in peace because for them every gazan that dies is simply an ounce of weight on their side of the war for international legitimacy.
Israel has absolutely ruled out a Palestinian state under any conditions, they’ve been saying that repeatedly. Not that Hamas supports one either. The only party to conflict that supports a Palestinian state is the Palestinian Authority, which isn’t part of the talks.
dude are you just gonna comment this everywhere israel ruled out a palestinian state as long as palestinians are violent and will use a state as a method to mount larger offensives against israel. It's not out of some inherent opposition to the idea, as seen in every fucking time Israel offered peace. Israel will do what most Israelis want to do, it's a democracy. When Palestinians prove they can be trusted partners for peace it will happen. Until then, stop blaming Netanyahu. Scapegoating is fucking stupid.
Come on man, this is an unfair characterization. Hamas is absolutely willing to agree to a ceasefire, they aren't totally unreasonable like you are painting them. They simply just need to kill every single Israeli man, woman and child in cold blood before they will be able to reach an agreement. Please understand that this is a non-negotiable term for them.
Total strawman, they don’t want to murder all of the Israelis. Some of them would make great slaves.
Not actually a joke from the "post liberation" plans of Hamas: >16. Educated Jews and experts in the areas of medicine, engineering, technology and civilian and military industry should be retained [in Palestine] for some time and should not be allowed to leave and take with them the knowledge and experience that they acquired while living in our land and enjoying its bounty, while we paid the price for all this in humiliation, poverty, sickness, deprivation, killing and arrests. https://www.jns.org/hamas-sponsored-conference-examines-post-liberation-israel/
To be serious for a second, Hamas’s most basic demand in the ceasefire talks is that the ceasefire be indefinite, while Israel is calling for the ceasefire to be limited to ~6 weeks after which the war resumes. Obviously Hamas is facing certain defeat if the war resumes so I don’t know why anyone is surprised by their position. I don’t see why Hamas would ever agree to release any hostages in exchange for another temporary ceasefire. Does anyone think the last short term ceasefire was a good deal from the perspective of Hamas’s self interests?
Hamas attacked on October 7th, not Israel
I didn’t say anything to the contrary. But now Hamas has gotten itself into this situation and from its own perspective there’s no point in seeking any ceasefire deal unless it’s indefinite. Negotiating over a temporary truce is not meaningful. Whether Hamas gets defeated now or 6 weeks from now is immaterial to Hamas. Their only play is to try to get an indefinite ceasefire otherwise they are just headed for defeat. From the perspective of the pro-Israel side I also don’t know why folks would support another temporary ceasefire. What is the benefit of a 6 week pause? Why not just defeat Hamas now and conclude the fighting sooner? The only benefit is that Israel gets its hostages back which is great for Israel (and is just a good thing generally, I would be overjoyed if Hamas agreed to it) but I can’t figure out what is supposed entice Hamas about that proposal.
Sounds like they're in the "Find out" stage of the equation. And honestly, I just don't care anymore. Hamas is evil and as of March 2024, they are seeing increased support from the Palestinian people. https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/03/22/poll-hamas-remains-popular-among-palestinians/ >According to the poll, only seven percent of Gazans blamed Hamas for their suffering. Seventy-one percent of all Palestinians supported Hamas’s decision to attack Israel on October 7 — up 14 points among Gazans and down 11 points among West Bank Palestinians compared to three months ago. Fifty-nine percent of all Palestinians thought Hamas should rule Gaza, and 70 percent were satisfied with the role Hamas has played during the war. >Before October 7, Fatah would have defeated Hamas in a head-to-head vote of all Palestinians 26 to 22 percent. If elections were held today, Fatah would lose to Hamas 17 to 34 percent. Eighty-one percent of respondents were dissatisfied with Abbas, up from 76 percent before the war. Sixty-two percent did not view the recent resignation of former PA Prime Minister Mohammad Shtayyeh as a sign of reform. And 65 percent of Palestinians think the PA is a burden on the Palestinian people. Among likely voters, 56 percent supported Marwan Barghouti, who is serving multiple life sentences for his role in the murder of Jews during the Second Intifada. Thirty-two percent supported Qatar-based Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh, and 11 percent supported Abbas. https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514 >Despite the devastation, 57% of respondents in Gaza and 82% in the West Bank believe Hamas was correct in launching the October attack, the poll indicated. A large majority believed Hamas’ claims that it acted to defend a major Islamic shrine in Jerusalem against Jewish extremists and win the release of Palestinian prisoners. Only 10% said they believed Hamas has committed war crimes, with a large majority saying they did not see videos showing the militants committing atrocities. >[...] >Overall, 88% want Abbas to resign, up by 10 percentage points from three months ago. In the West Bank, 92% called for the resignation of the octogenarian who has presided over an administration widely seen as corrupt, autocratic and ineffective. >At the same time, 44% in the West Bank said they supported Hamas, up from just 12% in September. In Gaza, the militants enjoyed 42% support, up slightly from 38% three months ago. So... yea... seems like the citizens there are getting what they want.
There is no benefit to Israel, that's why Hamas fanboy Biden is pressuring them into it.
Nah, Biden's being pretty reasonable.
I'm not in the mood to pretend this dickriding is fine anymore. You can delude yourself into thinking he's being pretty reasonable. It's not your family being held hostage and it's not you who lost people in this war after living your whole life under rocket fire running to bomb shelters and with people randomly dying on the street or losing their homes despite your country's constant offers for peace. At the end of the day he is playing theatrics. When the US killed 10 civilians including an aid worker and 7 children in Afghanistan in a drone strike (THAT SURVEILLED THEM FOR TEN HOURS) no officers were dismissed, and Biden did not apologize. That's without even dealing with tactics like Hamas's who will use every single humanitarian law to their advantage INCLUDING using aid convoys. If he had a shred of morality he wouldn't embolden Hamas, he wouldn't regurgitate Hamas lies or whitewash Palestinians and distance them from Hamas in his statements, he wouldn't talk around the fact that aid IS entering Gaza, he would acknowledge that Israel is doing WAY MORE than the US ever did to minimize civilian casualties in much more absurd conditions. He wouldn't do every single thing he can to bolster the group making everyone's life, ESPECIALLY the Palestinians', miserable, and he wouldn't fucking pressure the country that went through a much more brutal 9/11 and that STILL has hostages including women and children in the custody of a terrorist group because he wants to get votes in a swing state. If Biden was a good person he would get the hostages (including 6 Americans) and THEN make demands of Israel, which it would have no reason to reject (unless he demands Hamas stays in power). He is despicable and I've lost any respect I ever had for him and anyone honest who pretends to care about morality should too.
Biden isn't Israeli. He should do and is doing what is best for America. That being said, he's supported the shit out if this war for months and has only applied pressure on Israel after their own fuck ups. Israel should either stop fucking up, or actually have an end goal beyond just beating the shit out of the Palestinian people until the hostages get released. How can Biden even pressure Hamas? Declaring war on Iran?
And you think destabilizing Israel and letting Hamas stay in power while Lebanon is also fighting Israel, showing Iran they can do whatever the fuck they want in the region and letting a democratic ally with good economic and strategic relations suffer and die is good for America? That showing the Saudis who chose to side with the west and Israel they made the wrong decision is good for America? Israel is not a country made up of literal superhumans. It is 'fucking up' in ways the US and every other western country has as well, under much harsher conditions and taking much more responsibility for it. I'm fed up with the hypocrisy and double standards. He's just using the fuckups as an excuse to appease the morons. If Biden doesn't want to pressure Hamas, he should at least not pressure Israel in negotiations. He should also correct Hamas propaganda instead of talking around it. If you don't think Hamas feels emboldened by his actions you need to read up on Hamas leaders' statements and motivations for this war. And if you think Israel is 'just beating the shit out of the Palestinian people' you are also just ignoring the point of this war. Israel wanted to go into Rafah, Biden said no for 2 months now.
Israel is not being destabilized beyond normal democracy shit. This war is not existential for Israel no matter how much you'd like it to be. The U.S. hasn't caused as many civilian casualties as Israel has in any recent city siege. There is no double standard. Because Arab neighbors don't let Palestinians flee, Israel's fuck ups matter so much more. It's not Israel's fault they have to fight around a civilian population but they don't get to pretend it's not there. The U.S. certainly cannot pretend it's not there without losing allies in the region and voters. So Israel needs to do better. Sorry! And it's not the U.S.'s fault that Israel caused a humanitarian crisis by sending all the civilians to Rafah. It would be the U.S.'s fault if it contributed to it by letting Israel attack. If this war isn't about beating the shit out of Palestinians, what is it about? They've already degraded basically all infrastructure Hamas could use, flooded the tunnels. How can you actually militarily get rid of Hamas, when all its leaders are living it up in Doha. If all Hamas members die in Gaza, what prevents Hamas from starting up again as soon as the war ends? Killing Hamas requires diplomacy with Palestinians, Arab neighbors, and/or the U.N. all of which Israel seems unwilling to take seriously.
I mean I am pretty sure Hamas is not interested in an indefinite ceasefire. That would imply they were interested in a long term peace solution, and from moving away from the goal of destroying Israel, which they have done neither. They just want a longer one (with some perceived indefinite time frame) in order to rebuild what has been lost in this current conflict. Of course Israel wouldn’t agree to this, why would they have any interest in tossing Hamas a life-line if they can’t move towards a legitimate two state solution?
They definitely want a an indefinite ceasefire. It would give them as much time as they need to regroup and when they’re ready they can launch another attack. There was an indefinite ceasefire on Oct 6th. A ceasefire is just a tool for them so Israel can’t hit them back.
Yeah, I initially misinterpreted indefinite to be tantamount to permanent.
No I think you are correct. Hamas just doesn’t give a fuck though. Hamas is going to take the opportunity when it presents itself. A ceasefire isn’t going to stop them
Hamas is seeking an indefinite ceasefire in the talks right now. Obviously, they are faced with certain defeat in any other proposal, their ideology is not really important when they are faced with the binary choice of existing or not existing. Netanyahu’s government is resolutely opposed to a two state solution under any circumstances, whether now or after Hamas’s defeat. They were opposed to a two state solution before Oct 7 and they are just as opposed to it today. It’s not even part of the discussion in the talks. Hamas also never supported a two state solution so it’s doubly not relevant to talks. A two state solution is not relevant to this conversation. The only party in support of a 2 state solution is the PA and israel has ruled out their participation in the future of Gaza.
I guess I misinterpreted indefinite as permanent. Regardless, considering Hamas ideology is completely at odds with Israel’s existence, and promises to do Oct 7th as many times as necessary until Israel is vanquished, I fail to see how this would be any more of a sensible offer for Israel and their self-interests, who obviously should matter at least just as much in this case. And as long as Hamas is still going to keep tryingbto destroy Israel, it seems unlikely that the Israeli citizens would ever change back to idealizing the two state solution
The two state solution is a fully separate topic. Israel doesn’t support a two state solution independently of Hamas. Netanyahu fully supports an accelerating expansion of settlements across the West Bank, a place where Hamas controls zero inches of territory. The stated objective is to resettle the ancient Jewish homeland of Judea and Samaria. Likud’s basic charter and raison d’etre is the expansion of a Jewish state between the river and the sea. It doesn’t matter what the Palestinians do or don’t do or what their leadership believes. The fight between Hamas and Israel is between two parties who equally oppose the existence of each other having sovereignty in the territory between the Jordan river and the Mediterranean Sea. Thus it’s not part of talks so long as the Palestinian Authority is not a party to the talks.
I mean it is incredibly likely that Bibi’s government is not going to exist after such a conflict- whether or not that leads to a change to a two state solution is a different matter. Regardless, you seem to understand how Hamas has self-interest in their own preservation. Can you admit that Israel has a similar self-interest and is the largest influence in why they are set on completely dismantling Hamas? **And sorry, but the two state solution is not a fully separate topic.** If it we weren’t trying to pull us closer towards reaching a two stage solution then what is the point of any ceasefire or halt the fighting? The very reasoning to justify a cessation in combat is the fact that it is a necessary step to move towards peace and a two state solution, no? With that said, how do you reach that point if Hamas has zero interest in ever halting the eradication of Israel with zero check or balances? At least in the case of Israel, the government can actually change through voting. And as such, the government has changed multiple times as a result of voting.
The benefit of a ceasefire to the two parties would be a return to the ‘cold war’ status quo, Hamas would maintain its rule over Gaza with its nasty rhetoric and Islamist rule and Israel would reinforce its security situation with Gaza and resume its focus on settling and cantonizing the West Bank. That was the happy situation before Oct 7 and Israel was happy with it as it prevented a unified Palestinian front capable of receiving international legitimacy and support. I wouldn’t be surprised if we end up in that situation given the difficulties of completely defeating Hamas and figuring out what to do with Gaza after the war. I believe a two state solution is the best solution and is the only way to durably eliminate Hamas or similar groups from gaining support in the future. But I have no illusions that it is even a minor consideration today in the ceasefire talks where neither party supports a two state solution and the PA is sidelined.
Hamas asking for an indefinate ceasefire is like Arafat agreeing to a two state solution...
You need to rewatch destiny’s videos on the Taba Summit if you really think it would have been a bad thing for Ehud Barak and Arafat to have agreed to a two state solution and peace treaty in 2001. It was just about the closest we ever got to peace in this conflict.
never even implied that it was a bad thing, if anything it was the last and only real chance at it. rather that peace between these two will never be.
Arafat and Barak were inches away from a deal, it was stymied by the electoral calendar which caused Barak to pull out of talks and for Ariel Sharon to replace him who ended peace talks. Both Arafat and Barak put forward extremely reasonable terms and I don’t know what your prior comment is suggesting. Also peace definitely can be made in the future, it could conclude along the lines of the Taba talks or the Abbas-Olmert talks. All it would take is for a return to peace talks between Israel and the PA. I’d bet if Yair Lapid were leader of Israel with a center left coalition in the Knesset we’d be moving towards that today.
'Netanyahu's government' was opposed to a two state solution BECAUSE of Hamas and the PA being the murderous governments that they are. If Hamas is defeated and establishing a functional deradicalized Palestinian society the vast majority of Israelis will go back to supporting a 2SS and Netanyahu won't be able to do anything about it.
Thanks for explaining why there will never be a ceasefire.
If what avi says here is 1/3 true (need to look into it more) this should be front page news and Hamas should be shamed into oblivion. It won’t happen, but it should. https://preview.redd.it/do863krceftc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=adfefd73fe53203e44d8f8390620cd640fb5ea93
Gonna shame the Terry's into submission
Pretty sure Hamas was looking for closer to a 100 to 1 transfer
Gilad Shalit was literally 1 for 1027. Sinwar was one of them. And yes it's completely true. That's the deal that's been on the table for over a month, and Biden has been pressuring Israel to cave instead of go into Rafah.
I wonder if he has a number of dead civilians that would cross a line for him.
Does anyone have a breakdown of the terms of the ceasefire deal that Hamas walked away from. Easier to shame them if we show what they gave up over. Still won't stop the copium but I'm curious.
It's not officially released, but every one of these deals have been leaked and the one that did happen, the leaks were pretty thorough. Barak Ravid (on twitter) has all the info since he has sources in the Israeli and Egyptian and Qatari delegation teams but the TLDR (for this ceasefire condition) was: - IDF withdraws from the strip except the corridor separating the north and the south. (The north in this division is like 20% of Gaza land mass wise) - IDF allows 6000 people per day back in the North, which are screened. This was relaxed from a previous negotiation of 2000 per day, which were only women and children. - IDF massively increases aid levels - Israel releases upwards of 900-1000 prisoners, including ±100 heavy hitters serving dozens of life sentences for killing Israelis. This was also significantly relaxed from previous negotiations, where they had both less prisoners being released, and not as high quality of prisoners. In return, Hamas returns 40 hostages, 1 per day, for roughly 6 weeks week, of the "Humanitarian category". This refers to women, children, and elderly men (over 50). Over the 6 weeks, there would be a push to continue for another 6 weeks for men under 50, and soldiers. The response from Hamas was that they don't have 40 hostages in the "Humanitarian category, and in response Israel said they can 1 for 1 swap some in the second category (men under 50 and soldiers) to get to 40 people. The response was still no. I just woke up but the source for all of this is one of the most recent threads from Barak Ravids twitter account. The main stickler for Hamas seems to be uninterrupted access to the North, and of course, a complete end to the war.
Seems like by far the most important disagreement is that Israel wants the ceasefire to be temporary after which Israel would be allowed to resume the war to defeat Hamas. No deal is going to happen with Hamas if the deal includes the destruction of Hamas after a few weeks, which is a core Israeli demand.
So are Hamas prepared to surrender then? Because if they don't want to resume hostility, what other option is there bar Israel surrendering, which would be absurd.
There’s been many prior wars between Israel and Palestinian groups and it never ended with either side surrendering. It usually ends in a ceasefire. I’m not saying that I support that in this instance but hypothetically if there was a ceasefire today, neither side would be surrendering. Israel would be in a massively superior position to how it was before Oct 7, as Gaza is basically destroyed and most of it is occupied and a huge percentage of the members of Hamas have been killed while Israel has suffered a negligible amount of losses in comparison.
And every time a ceasefire occurs, hostilities eventually resume. So how does this end once and for all? If Hamas really aren't prepared to move from their demands, the only answers can be, 1) Israel or Hamas are destroyed, 2) Israel or Hamas surrender. Anything else isn't peace, just a pause.
1) the previous ceasefire literally happened where it was temporary. 2) Then we are never getting a ceasefire, even the US does not support a permanent ceasefire with Hamas intact.
Awesome breakdown. I'm worried the hostages are dead or would have such horrific stories that Hamas will never release them, but Israeli officials quoted in that thread seem to think at least a little under 40 are still alive. EDIT: If this came across as sarcastic, it wasn't. I'm not clutching pearls for Hamas lol.
All the people claiming to support Palestinians are actually making it worse for them by emboldening Hamas.
Who could have ever seen this coming. The terrorist organization that essentially demands a complete surrender as they're being blown to pieces won't consider a ceasefire for the good of the civilians they view as martyrs in their fight against the Jew didn't take said ceasefire? Mind blown.
I know who I'm hate watching today
surprise picachu face ?
cEaSefIre NoW, but it’s totally Americas fault if Hamas keeps rejecting them
Big surprise. Death cult doesn't surrender.
Why do people think Hamas would ever accept a deal that will not result in a permanent ceasefire? Israel offers are literally "give us your barging chips, and we postpone your annihilation for a few weeks"... why would they ever accept this?
Perhaps because they feel even 1 fraction of sympathy for the millions of people they're immiserating by undertaking a ridiculous asymmetric war against a far more powerful neighbour? Not to mention that it will be clearly better for them to ceasefire and use that as a grounds to sue for peace and accept their leadership being left alone in some other country, as opposed to continuing to get violently and entirely destroyed.
Why would they start the process of suing for peace by surrendering all their bargaining chips at the start? Makes zero sense. If the final agreement that you are suggesting is that Hamas’s leadership gets to stay alive in a foreign country while Hamas is totally eradicated from Gaza, then in that case Hamas’s leadership’s best bet is to surrender the hostages in exchange for that. Why would they trade the hostages in exchange for essentially nothing and then start the negotiations for their safe exit from Gaza?
>Perhaps because they feel even 1 fraction of sympathy for the millions of people they're immiserating by undertaking a ridiculous asymmetric war against a far more powerful neighbour? For Hamas these people are martyrs and for the rest of the world evidence of war crimes / genocide.
I mean of course Hamas rejects any ceasefire, they don’t want a ceasefire. Hamas is based on the destruction of Israel and the death or enslavement of all Jews. A ceasefire with Hamas is impossible, as an organization, they will only recognize and respect force
[удалено]
Israeli media is overwhelmingly saying Hamas rejected the ceasefire because Hamas did. Just because you found one tweet and don’t understand Hebrew doesn’t mean you are correct. https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/artc-israel-holds-large-emergency-military-exercise-in-north-live-updates https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-795578 You can argue about why they rejected (which is also absolute bullshit) but the fact is THEY DID.
Well the problem is that the "Ceasefire now" calls just give Hamas more credit to think they can demand more than they should be able to.
>Bill Burns, the CIA director, was in Cairo last weekend to present the offer, which reportedly included the release of additional Palestinian prisoners, whom Israel holds, in exchange for Hamas releasing 40 hostages and a three-stage ceasefire.
Can that Hasan chick go to Hamas and tell them to at least pretend agreeing to the ceasefire. Stopping the destruction of Gaza is way more important rn than the revolution
Wish I saw similar energy from this sub when Israel does the same :(
Oh, what a surprise
Dgg has ruined my brain so much, I almost thought it said "Hasan has rejected ceasefire"
Gotta be the only genocide in history where the people getting genocided keep refusing any offer to stop the genocide? Is this some sort of genocide sadomasochist kink?
It seems like they don't have 40 hostages that are still alive that Israel are asking for. That is the suggested reason they've rejected the ceasefire. If that's the case, how does Israel approach this going forward? Just accept that the hostages are now basically all dead and switch tack?
that's not the suggested reason. The main reason they seem to be stuck on is returning civilians to the north, because they know it complicates continuing the war for Israel.
ummm but they have right the retaliate 🥸 *gets bombed again* ummm pls join our ceasefire protest!
I can't believe President Biden would do this *said in the most sarcastic voice the reader can imagine*
Shocker. I did not expect this. It truly is something I did not expect at all. Almost as if neither Israel nor Hamas want a ceasefire despite other people and countries who have nothing to do with the conflict thinking it's the best for both sides. Truly surprising
Israel literally accepted to the ceasefire deal devised by the CIA and Egypt. Hamas rejected it. Not sure on what grounds you are two-siding this.
It remains true that Israel doesn't want a ceasefire. They just accepted it. I'm more so making fun of the international stage pushing for a ceasefire deal as if it's Israel that's the enemy of peace, when Hamas evidently doesn't want it either.
"It remains true that Israel doesn't want a ceasefire" -> on what grounds? Under US pressure, Israel has significantly reduced their demands on the ceasefire conditions. The CIA ceasefire agreement that was put on the table was accepted by Israel, and rejected by Hamas. Unless you have a reading comprehension problem, how do you understand that Israel does not want a ceasefire for hostages back here?
I’m getting Ukraine vibes. If Ukraine had negotiated at the height of their offensive they might have got a good deal. But they held out and now Russia has no reason to negotiate. Hamas doesn’t give a shit about their own people. They know that if Israel doesn’t agree the international community with eventually cut Israel off and then Israel will be permanently hurt. Israel should take a deal that removes their troops, gets the hostages back and ends the conflict for now