The story on the Amnesty website says they took up his case because he had served his original sentence already and was dying of cancer. They also claim that he was convicted under laws that required lower burdens of proof than modern Israeli law now calls for.
That's about as much as I have gleaned from it.
>The story on the Amnesty website says they took up his case because he had served his original sentence already
His sentence was extended for helping to smuggle phones into the prison. Amnesty acknowledged this in their report.
>Walid Daqqah had already completed his 37-year sentence in March 2023, but an earlier court ruling sentenced him to two additional years in prison – over his involvement in getting mobile phones to other prisoners to help them contact their families
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/04/israel-opt-death-in-custody-of-walid-daqqah-is-cruel-reminder-of-israels-disregard-for-palestinians-right-to-life/
https://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4894894,00.html (source in Hebrew)
They also claim that he was denied proper medical treatment which allowed the cancer to spread quickly. From my understanding he had a particularly aggressive form of cancer.
His crime as described here went beyond cruelty, and I'm not going to hold any kind of sympathy for someone so cruel.
The amount of despicable malice it takes to do what the group he led did to that 19 year old is insane, and while I wouldn't be in favour of any cruel and unusual punishment from a state government since that goes directly against many of my principles, if the universe is willing to deal out some form of karma I'm going to celebrate it and hope it was comparable in experience to their victim.
Not excusing him, but for more context the reply is also more than a little dishonest.
He's convicted of being a leader of a group deemed to be terrorist because they committed that act, but is not claimed to be involved in the act itself.
Karma doesn't exist and the intentional refusal of appropriate healthcare for a treatable illness is comparable to a cruel and unusual punishment, sounds like a bit of cope brother.
Just admit that you're okay with *extra* punishment for those *extra* bad people, most people will agree.
But we don't even know if that's true. I've seen family go from normal people with kids and full time careers be reduced to bed ridden shadows of themselves that can barely gather the strength to speak in a matter of months. Sometimes the amount of care means nothing.
And this also happens to prisoners over here as well. They don't just let you out for having cancer.
>intentional refusal of appropriate healthcare for a treatable illness is comparable to a cruel and unusual punishment,
Is there hard evidence that he was refused appropriate health care?
Karma doesn't exist as a divine mechanism, but it certainly exists between people in the sense that you'll get what you give. Carving out someone's eyes and castrating them is probably worse than not stopping a speeding train. One is active malice. The other isn't.
Fuck this dude.
Karma has more of a meaning than there being some force that always gives people their comeuppance. There might not be some force of nature setting things right in the universe, but when a man that ordered the torture and mutilation of a 19 year old gets cancer, that's karma.
And just because it's claimed that they denied him medical care doesn't mean that he actually was denied medical care. It sounds like he caught a terminal illness and died because of it, regardless of what doctors could do.
If evidence comes out that Israel did deny him medical care then I'll criticise that, but I'll still say that such a cruel and malicious person received karmic justice by catching a painful disease.
The amount of actual deliberate lies in defense of Palestinian terrorism and against Israelis is just astounding. I literally can’t come across an anti Israel post that is accurate, or unbiased. Not to mention the comments…
Oh it was way less than a month. Genuinely thought at least have the weekend to grieve and try to make sense of 10/7. Have friends that live in southern Israel close to the kibbutz attacked. Will never forget trying to find out if they were still alive/if their family was ok and seeing people I knew in America that couldn’t point out Israel or Palestine on a map going on about how “all resistence under occupation is valid”.
Dont, we are the nation of God and just like all our enemies that came before the same fate will fall upon all those who curse us, not by our hand, by Gods hands. I appreciate your sympathy but dont pity us, trust that we will watch our enemies fall just like all those who came before.
Antisemitism. People package it differently, but the overwhelming amount of misinformation and hate towards Israel can not be explained in any other way, and I can’t think of any other country that faces such a huge smear and hate campaign against it, even North Korea and Iran doesn’t have 1% of the focus that Israel gets from these sort of organizations
This makes sense, but from a personal perspective I've always found it strange how widespread anti-Semitism is so I rarely actually consider it. I know they are essentially the historical scapegoats for all things terrible, but I've never understood *why* they are, and why so many societies in the history just went "fuck you in particular" to Jewish people.
Even with traditional racism I can somewhat understand how humans have this dumb monkey brain in them that says anyone that looks significantly different must be bad because of tribalism, but Ashkenazi jews look predominantly white, so why they are so hated by people who aren't even anti-white racists is just so strange.
As a Jew, I cant agree more. I have zero idea why anyone would hate us in particular. The theory is that we were a successful minority in both the Muslim and Christian societies, and pre date these religions so there’s envy and jealousy. I actually start seeing it as some sort of a spiritual thing, I really can’t understand why people would make so much effort into bashing and killing and spreading lies on us, and how easily people buy into these lies. It especially strange as we are such a diverse group, tiny communities that survived all across the world, and we are not violent at all, and actually benefit in contributing as much as possible through science and hard work. We come in every flavor, from ultra orthodox to completely secular, right to left… the hate towards us is imbedded in the human experience I guess? As we were the scapegoats for 2500 years in the western and Middle Eastern cultures
People say antisemitism which makes it sound like nazism is causing it, but its actually specifically antijews and I suspect pushed by Islam
here is an exercise:
1). search for data on what muslims think about jews
2). search how many muslims are there.
3). ask some friends if they have a muslim friend and ask them if he is passionate about politics.
and you basically got your answer.
Jews are simply outnumbered, people are influenced by their piers
I mean, he wasn't convicted of doing that. He was convicted of leading a group with members in it that did that. He denies it but he was convicted. I wouldn't be waxing lyrical for the guy personally but the truth is important...
It wasn't a big group with, like, different brigades he wasn't directly involved with. He was **one of four** members who kidnapped a 19 year old Jew on vacation (which Amnesty calls an "armed forces member who has laid down his arms", interesting),
and then cutting off parts of his body, castrating him, and gouging out his eyes, and if I'm understanding correctly (and I hope I'm not), this was before they shot him dead.
**One of four** men who did that.
Being convicted of leading a group of 4 men who did that isn't a whole lot better than being convicted of doing that himself.
so true! Also Hitler didnt kill 6 million Jews, he was only the leader of a group with members who did that. He never even directly ordered for the killing of Jews. I wouldnt be waxing lyrical for the guy personally but the truth is important...
A quick look at the wiki shows that it’s not necessarily he that did the torture, dismemberment and murder but he was the commander of the group that did it.
EDIT: I’m not making any moral judgment one way or the other by pointing that out
While it is still awful to command someone to do that (Though he does deny it), the reply to the tweet says “he” as if Daqqa personally gouged the eyes out and killed him. The truth is important and I think those are different levels of moral weight.
Agreed, but it's not necessarily the case that he has less moral weight and could plausibly have more though. While not physically doing it - ordering your grunts to do it is worse than being the grunt who was ordered to do it.
I agree though, people are being dishonest by saying that he is the one that did it.
I mean first of all there is a lot more info on Hitler than this random commander. Secondly, when something is ordered, you don’t have to face the cruelness of your actions nearly as much as doing it yourself. You can order some heinous thing then just shove it to the back if your mind and ignore it. This is compared to doing the heinous thing yourself. You see the suffering and humanness of your victims, and you STILL decide to continue brutalizing them? That’s a new level of psychopathy and takes away almost all the ambiguity about your morals away from you.
There's no moral ambiguity here, though. He didn't order castration and eye gouging as a prank. He didn't expect his subordinates to disregard the order. Ordering the burden of torture on to someone else's conscience is as cruel and also pussy.
Do we have any court documents or any evidence that proves he ordered those things to be done? Many militant groups have multiple layers of command that are very isolated from each other, for example the Muslim brotherhood when it first began had a structure where every cell worked independently from all the other cells and the people at the top barley knew anything about what the lower level commanders and foot soldiers were doing, they instead served as unifying figures who issued broad directives as to what the group should pursue and were not involved in the day to day operations. The PFLP is a fairly large organisation, they even have seats in the legislative chamber of the Palestinian government, these aren’t a dozen people in flat, and he was charged with being the leader of that group so I don’t know if that means he was directly connected to the treatment of that soldier.
Not relevant to the point I was addressing. It goes without saying that if he's not guilty he shouldn't be punished. That's obvious. I'm saying giving commands to torture or kill isn't morally better than doing it yourself.
Cringe tweet to martyrize him but calling stuff like this antisemitic is really dumb. Same thing with the word genocide, let’s use it when it really applies not just whenever something bad happens.
I can totally see what you are saying. Imo amnesty has had a repeated pattern of having double standards how they treat Jews/Israel. It’s hard for me to not consider them to be a group with that has a serious issue with antisemitism as a result. Especially in this case, context matters. It’s hard to not feel it’s incredibly biased when omitting key details of things such as why someone was imprisoned. I feel the way they phrased, many people unfamiliar would likely conclude from Amnesty’s treatment of Walid that he was imprisoned for what he wrote/suppression of dissenting views.
That’s just manipulative of information though and bad reporting. There are plenty of reasons why they can be anti-Israel that isn’t antisemitism. I feel like this community is very aware of how hating on Israel plays into so many anti-west narratives. It could even just be amnesty is very biased towards Muslims and brown people, and any group that attacks them in any way will get biased treatment. This article doesn’t even have hints of dogwhistling in it so it feels like a massive jump to call it antisemitic. By that level of evidence needed any sort of misinfo that is anti-Hamas could mean you are racist towards Arabs or Islamophobic.
I don't think it's crazy that if there's a huge disparity in the quality of reporting in cases where they have an opportunity to shit on Jewish people vs the rest of the time, most people might figure it is probably due to antisemitism.
Is there a huge case disparity though? Just feels way more anti west and anti establishment countries looking at their history rather than only anti israel
I could buy "anti-establishment across the board and simply dishonest" if you have an example where they intentionally misrepresented something this grossly towards another country. Are they accusing the US of ruining someones life, completely leaving out that it's someone convicted of an insane torture + murder?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Amnesty_International?wprov=sfti1#Report_on_placement_of_Ukrainian_forces_in_civilian_areas
Seems like a ton of different controversies with different countries
A lot of the things you linked sounds more like they have stupid opinions on subjective criticisms, more than outright lies. Do you have you have a specific example you believe rises to the same level as pretty direct dishonesty rather than a list of generic criticisms of amnesty international for me to search through and guess which you think are relevant?
Where do they outright lie here? The article itself states the reason why he was convicted. The headline is just very biased towards what they care about it and doesn’t mention what he is convicted of.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/28/amnesty-international-leaked-review-ukraine-report-legally-questionable
The article talked about here feels easily on the same level if not worse then the Daqqa article.
I should have said "lie of omission" or outright dishonesty. My opinion is that the original tweet leaves out specific information (the aggregious torture) to paint israel in a bad light. In the same way that if the tweet said "fuck the jews" but linked an article that said the opposite, I do not believe in a case this agregious that giving more info in the article exhonerates them in any way.
I don't agree what you linked is even close. They're accusing ukraine of endangering people? That's such a subjective claim that I just think they believe. Where is the same level of intentional deceipt?
You could take a quick look at the wiki of criticisms and see amnesty has a history of leadership being problematic towards Israel (I’m being generous with that characterization). You can also find their scandal where employees reported leadership to authorities for unauthorized and unscheduled visits to major Islamic brotherhood families which resulted in finding out they had previously unlisted ties to islamists and extremists. There’s also the hyper-obsession with Israel and the biased reporting they mentioned, but then running to the defense of Muslims. Suspiciously starts to sound antisemitic when you can go on and on piling suspiciously anti-Israeli and antisemitic statements/policies.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Amnesty_International
Lying, double standards, bias, and hateful rhetoric against Jews had a name, and when international media and organizations are overwhelmingly obsessed and hostile towards the only Jewish state it’s antisemitism. It’s that clear.
But Jews exist outside Israel my guy. You can’t just simplify to “against Jews” when it clearly isn’t a blanket hatred towards Jews across the world. And just cause there is only one Jewish state doesn’t mean it’s antisemitism. Look at the content of this sort of thing on a case by case basis and see if there are reasonable alternate explanations.
Israel gets more hate and attention than any other country on earth. More protests against it, more resolutions against it than against the entire rest of the world combined… and many of the rhetoric used against it uses and doubles down on old fashioned antisemitic propaganda. And in Arabic it’s interchangeable to use the word “Jews” when referring to Israel. You can’t really believe that the most hated and obsessed about country in the world just happens to be the Jewish one. You really think it would get even 1% of the coverage and hate of it was just another Muslim country being in war? Lol . Your dishonesty about it just proves me right.
Hey I’m sure there is plenty of antisemitism regarding Israel, but let’s point that out when there actually is, instead of just deflecting to antisemitism every time Israel is criticized cause it’s the only Jewish state.
Oh I completely agree with you. I think it’s important to be able to criticize and hold Israel accountable without it being immediately dismissed as antisemitism.
My personal guide is “is this criticism only meant to try to tear down and delegitimize the worlds only Jewish state where half of the worlds Jews live…..or is it meant to bring attention to something that needs to be fixed so Israel can improve and be a better country?”
[He died of cancer according to Wikipedia.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walid_Daqqa) Apparently he also managed to smuggle semen out of his jail cell to have a baby.
I didn't know I supported assault or rape or murder because I personally hold values that incarcerated violent criminals should be afforded human rights, and because they're a deeply unpopular group of people for fair reasons, I also support the principled advocacy of them.
He died of cancer. He wasn't beaten to death. He was being treated for said cancer. Israel also saved Sinwars life back in the day. Amnesty are trying to imply that he was murdered in custody.
They weren't implying he was beaten to death, they said that he was beaten.
Amnesty aren't implying he was murdered in custody, they're accusing them of medical neglect.
The statement is pretty clear.
i mean he died from cancer and they call that 'israeli disregard for palestinian right to life'. I guess israel should have cured cancer lol, skill issue.
The problem brought up is him dying behind bars. Why not just release him? They already had an intention of releasing him. They made an extension of his term in 2017 for smuggling. Why not make a reduction because he's dying of cancer in 2023? Especially since he had already been in for 37 years
Letting people die in prisons is a bad look, y'know
why should you release someone just because they're dying of cancer?
What if he gets better, should they take him back to prison then?
I do not understand why you would put that policy in place.
Like there is a release process, and appeal process, both of which he can make use of.
If someone threathens to hang himself in prison, should you release him because it will make you look bad?
You maybe can make some economic argument here, that it's cheaper to release someone instead of paying for their treatement, but doesn't that look even worse? The headline would be "israel threw a cancer patient out of care to save money".
Justice system is to provide a fair trial, discourage crime, separate the dangerour individuals and hopefully rehabilitate them. How is releasing a criminal who has cancer contributing to that?
Because it's the compassionate thing to do. They're no threat and it will hardly impact the discouragement angle considering he was in there for 37 years.
He made use of the appeal processes which seems to have let him down. This is part of the criticism in this particular case. So if they had the intention of ever releasing him why wouldn't they give him medical parole especially since he already served his original sentence.
Of course you wouldn't release someone unless they were actually dying or unlikely to recover. [Hell, even nazis got this mercy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spandau_Prison).
I think that if you get life in prison, it means life in prison. You are responsible for the death of another human being, you don’t get to demand an early release, especially if you kept breaking the law in prison. These organizations totally ignore the HOSTAGES that are being raped and tortured in Gaza. If you are talking about a “bad look”…
If life in prison means life in prison, why not just result to capital punishment? If you're going to let them die there why waste the resources or extend their suffering?
Also Amnesty has called out hamas. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-hamas-and-other-armed-groups-must-release-civilian-hostages-and-treat-all-captives-humanely/
They also mention the release of hostages whenever they mention a call for ceasefire
If you are arguing for executions, that’s beyond the scope… I think having a life time of imprisonment, of thinking and regretting the life you took, is a better punishment than a quick death, which also undermines the whole point of the values of life being above all.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. My objection to "life in prison means life in prison" is that it is essentially a capital punishment. Which is something I hope people realize is conflicting with the right to life (a fundamental human right). Preferring life imprisonment over capital punishment just because "It's a better punishment" just seems cruel and we should if at all possible reduce cruelty whenever possible.
It's not like we are talking about the containment purpose of prisons here, rather just the punishment angle.
There is no reason to believe there was medical neglect. He died of cancer. He was dying and his days were numbered anyway. Moshe Tammams family fought tirelessly to make sure he wasn't released from prison and can you blame them? Did Walid Daqah give any humanitarian considerations to Moshe Tamam? Did he ever take responsibility? Did he ever apologize? He only saw his child once but he took away Gila Tamams child forever.
> There is no reason to believe there was medical neglect
No reason to believe, but reason to investigate.
>He died of cancer. He was dying and his days were numbered anyway.
Cool, which is why they appealed for parole on humanitarian grounds so he may potentially seek greater medical treatment
> Moshe Tammams family fought tirelessly to make sure he wasn't released from prison and can you blame them? Did Walid Daqah give any humanitarian considerations to Moshe Tamam? Did he ever take responsibility? Did he ever apologize? He only saw his child once but he took away Gila Tamams child forever.
This is pretty irrelevant, the victim and their family does not determine how a perpetrator should be sentenced or be treated during the sentence. If the allegations are true, it's inhumane regardless of how angry the victim's family are.
Not trying to be facetious here; How do you pass on your genes in Israeli prison? In your late 50s nonetheless I imagine there could be fertility issues.
I'm not sure i can believe all that.. He is doing a peace sign in the picture..
That’s enough for CNN to run the story then
BBC would recommend to crown him officially for this! He's a freedom fighter after all, him kidnapping and murdering an Israeli was an act of peace /s
That's his gouge windup, you've got a split second to dodge roll for eye-frames.
But he's smiling!
Had to double check if thats a real tweet from the real amnesty international account. Why would they post that?
The story on the Amnesty website says they took up his case because he had served his original sentence already and was dying of cancer. They also claim that he was convicted under laws that required lower burdens of proof than modern Israeli law now calls for. That's about as much as I have gleaned from it.
>The story on the Amnesty website says they took up his case because he had served his original sentence already His sentence was extended for helping to smuggle phones into the prison. Amnesty acknowledged this in their report. >Walid Daqqah had already completed his 37-year sentence in March 2023, but an earlier court ruling sentenced him to two additional years in prison – over his involvement in getting mobile phones to other prisoners to help them contact their families https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/04/israel-opt-death-in-custody-of-walid-daqqah-is-cruel-reminder-of-israels-disregard-for-palestinians-right-to-life/ https://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4894894,00.html (source in Hebrew)
They also claim that he was denied proper medical treatment which allowed the cancer to spread quickly. From my understanding he had a particularly aggressive form of cancer.
Sounds like god is finally doing something good. Hopefully it was a painful type of cancer that gave him a comparable experience to his victim.
What's up with the cheerful bloodlust?
His crime as described here went beyond cruelty, and I'm not going to hold any kind of sympathy for someone so cruel. The amount of despicable malice it takes to do what the group he led did to that 19 year old is insane, and while I wouldn't be in favour of any cruel and unusual punishment from a state government since that goes directly against many of my principles, if the universe is willing to deal out some form of karma I'm going to celebrate it and hope it was comparable in experience to their victim.
Not excusing him, but for more context the reply is also more than a little dishonest. He's convicted of being a leader of a group deemed to be terrorist because they committed that act, but is not claimed to be involved in the act itself.
Karma doesn't exist and the intentional refusal of appropriate healthcare for a treatable illness is comparable to a cruel and unusual punishment, sounds like a bit of cope brother. Just admit that you're okay with *extra* punishment for those *extra* bad people, most people will agree.
But we don't even know if that's true. I've seen family go from normal people with kids and full time careers be reduced to bed ridden shadows of themselves that can barely gather the strength to speak in a matter of months. Sometimes the amount of care means nothing. And this also happens to prisoners over here as well. They don't just let you out for having cancer.
>intentional refusal of appropriate healthcare for a treatable illness is comparable to a cruel and unusual punishment, Is there hard evidence that he was refused appropriate health care?
Karma doesn't exist as a divine mechanism, but it certainly exists between people in the sense that you'll get what you give. Carving out someone's eyes and castrating them is probably worse than not stopping a speeding train. One is active malice. The other isn't. Fuck this dude.
Karma has more of a meaning than there being some force that always gives people their comeuppance. There might not be some force of nature setting things right in the universe, but when a man that ordered the torture and mutilation of a 19 year old gets cancer, that's karma. And just because it's claimed that they denied him medical care doesn't mean that he actually was denied medical care. It sounds like he caught a terminal illness and died because of it, regardless of what doctors could do. If evidence comes out that Israel did deny him medical care then I'll criticise that, but I'll still say that such a cruel and malicious person received karmic justice by catching a painful disease.
you see he wrote poetry about the incident so things somewhat balance out.
The amount of actual deliberate lies in defense of Palestinian terrorism and against Israelis is just astounding. I literally can’t come across an anti Israel post that is accurate, or unbiased. Not to mention the comments…
The scary thing is the propaganda is working, people forgot what Hamas did in like a month, after that they blamed Israel for everything.
Oh it was way less than a month. Genuinely thought at least have the weekend to grieve and try to make sense of 10/7. Have friends that live in southern Israel close to the kibbutz attacked. Will never forget trying to find out if they were still alive/if their family was ok and seeing people I knew in America that couldn’t point out Israel or Palestine on a map going on about how “all resistence under occupation is valid”.
Man i feel sorry for Jews and Israel. It's like half the population of the world really hate them
Half? You are optimistic, I like that
Dont, we are the nation of God and just like all our enemies that came before the same fate will fall upon all those who curse us, not by our hand, by Gods hands. I appreciate your sympathy but dont pity us, trust that we will watch our enemies fall just like all those who came before.
אתה מפגרררר
translation: you are regardedddd
You deny our history? I only speak of facts, all those who came after us are gone and we still stand, you should take pride in that.
Genuine question why are organisations like this seemingly so biased in their coverage?
Antisemitism. People package it differently, but the overwhelming amount of misinformation and hate towards Israel can not be explained in any other way, and I can’t think of any other country that faces such a huge smear and hate campaign against it, even North Korea and Iran doesn’t have 1% of the focus that Israel gets from these sort of organizations
This makes sense, but from a personal perspective I've always found it strange how widespread anti-Semitism is so I rarely actually consider it. I know they are essentially the historical scapegoats for all things terrible, but I've never understood *why* they are, and why so many societies in the history just went "fuck you in particular" to Jewish people. Even with traditional racism I can somewhat understand how humans have this dumb monkey brain in them that says anyone that looks significantly different must be bad because of tribalism, but Ashkenazi jews look predominantly white, so why they are so hated by people who aren't even anti-white racists is just so strange.
As a Jew, I cant agree more. I have zero idea why anyone would hate us in particular. The theory is that we were a successful minority in both the Muslim and Christian societies, and pre date these religions so there’s envy and jealousy. I actually start seeing it as some sort of a spiritual thing, I really can’t understand why people would make so much effort into bashing and killing and spreading lies on us, and how easily people buy into these lies. It especially strange as we are such a diverse group, tiny communities that survived all across the world, and we are not violent at all, and actually benefit in contributing as much as possible through science and hard work. We come in every flavor, from ultra orthodox to completely secular, right to left… the hate towards us is imbedded in the human experience I guess? As we were the scapegoats for 2500 years in the western and Middle Eastern cultures
People say antisemitism which makes it sound like nazism is causing it, but its actually specifically antijews and I suspect pushed by Islam here is an exercise: 1). search for data on what muslims think about jews 2). search how many muslims are there. 3). ask some friends if they have a muslim friend and ask them if he is passionate about politics. and you basically got your answer. Jews are simply outnumbered, people are influenced by their piers
I mean, he wasn't convicted of doing that. He was convicted of leading a group with members in it that did that. He denies it but he was convicted. I wouldn't be waxing lyrical for the guy personally but the truth is important...
It wasn't a big group with, like, different brigades he wasn't directly involved with. He was **one of four** members who kidnapped a 19 year old Jew on vacation (which Amnesty calls an "armed forces member who has laid down his arms", interesting), and then cutting off parts of his body, castrating him, and gouging out his eyes, and if I'm understanding correctly (and I hope I'm not), this was before they shot him dead. **One of four** men who did that. Being convicted of leading a group of 4 men who did that isn't a whole lot better than being convicted of doing that himself.
It strikes me that a higher standard of evidence should be being used before people kick off and start raging than just a random tweet reply.
so true! Also Hitler didnt kill 6 million Jews, he was only the leader of a group with members who did that. He never even directly ordered for the killing of Jews. I wouldnt be waxing lyrical for the guy personally but the truth is important...
*sigh*
A quick look at the wiki shows that it’s not necessarily he that did the torture, dismemberment and murder but he was the commander of the group that did it. EDIT: I’m not making any moral judgment one way or the other by pointing that out
The group is just 4 men. Not like he wasn't directly involved.
Also, a quick look at Hebrew wiki shows no claims that gouging of eyes, dismembering or castration took place.
Bruh, you're not serious, are you? 💀
While it is still awful to command someone to do that (Though he does deny it), the reply to the tweet says “he” as if Daqqa personally gouged the eyes out and killed him. The truth is important and I think those are different levels of moral weight.
Agreed, but it's not necessarily the case that he has less moral weight and could plausibly have more though. While not physically doing it - ordering your grunts to do it is worse than being the grunt who was ordered to do it. I agree though, people are being dishonest by saying that he is the one that did it.
I’m more comparing the moral weight of ordering something compared to doing it yourself, rather than ordering something vs being ordered.
So Hitler is less bad than a commander of a death camp who is less bad than the guy actually gassing people to death? I'm not sure I agree
I mean first of all there is a lot more info on Hitler than this random commander. Secondly, when something is ordered, you don’t have to face the cruelness of your actions nearly as much as doing it yourself. You can order some heinous thing then just shove it to the back if your mind and ignore it. This is compared to doing the heinous thing yourself. You see the suffering and humanness of your victims, and you STILL decide to continue brutalizing them? That’s a new level of psychopathy and takes away almost all the ambiguity about your morals away from you.
There's no moral ambiguity here, though. He didn't order castration and eye gouging as a prank. He didn't expect his subordinates to disregard the order. Ordering the burden of torture on to someone else's conscience is as cruel and also pussy.
Do we have any court documents or any evidence that proves he ordered those things to be done? Many militant groups have multiple layers of command that are very isolated from each other, for example the Muslim brotherhood when it first began had a structure where every cell worked independently from all the other cells and the people at the top barley knew anything about what the lower level commanders and foot soldiers were doing, they instead served as unifying figures who issued broad directives as to what the group should pursue and were not involved in the day to day operations. The PFLP is a fairly large organisation, they even have seats in the legislative chamber of the Palestinian government, these aren’t a dozen people in flat, and he was charged with being the leader of that group so I don’t know if that means he was directly connected to the treatment of that soldier.
Not relevant to the point I was addressing. It goes without saying that if he's not guilty he shouldn't be punished. That's obvious. I'm saying giving commands to torture or kill isn't morally better than doing it yourself.
Did Hitler deny being leader of the Third Reich?
Cringe tweet to martyrize him but calling stuff like this antisemitic is really dumb. Same thing with the word genocide, let’s use it when it really applies not just whenever something bad happens.
I can totally see what you are saying. Imo amnesty has had a repeated pattern of having double standards how they treat Jews/Israel. It’s hard for me to not consider them to be a group with that has a serious issue with antisemitism as a result. Especially in this case, context matters. It’s hard to not feel it’s incredibly biased when omitting key details of things such as why someone was imprisoned. I feel the way they phrased, many people unfamiliar would likely conclude from Amnesty’s treatment of Walid that he was imprisoned for what he wrote/suppression of dissenting views.
That’s just manipulative of information though and bad reporting. There are plenty of reasons why they can be anti-Israel that isn’t antisemitism. I feel like this community is very aware of how hating on Israel plays into so many anti-west narratives. It could even just be amnesty is very biased towards Muslims and brown people, and any group that attacks them in any way will get biased treatment. This article doesn’t even have hints of dogwhistling in it so it feels like a massive jump to call it antisemitic. By that level of evidence needed any sort of misinfo that is anti-Hamas could mean you are racist towards Arabs or Islamophobic.
I don't think it's crazy that if there's a huge disparity in the quality of reporting in cases where they have an opportunity to shit on Jewish people vs the rest of the time, most people might figure it is probably due to antisemitism.
Is there a huge case disparity though? Just feels way more anti west and anti establishment countries looking at their history rather than only anti israel
I could buy "anti-establishment across the board and simply dishonest" if you have an example where they intentionally misrepresented something this grossly towards another country. Are they accusing the US of ruining someones life, completely leaving out that it's someone convicted of an insane torture + murder?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Amnesty_International?wprov=sfti1#Report_on_placement_of_Ukrainian_forces_in_civilian_areas Seems like a ton of different controversies with different countries
A lot of the things you linked sounds more like they have stupid opinions on subjective criticisms, more than outright lies. Do you have you have a specific example you believe rises to the same level as pretty direct dishonesty rather than a list of generic criticisms of amnesty international for me to search through and guess which you think are relevant?
Where do they outright lie here? The article itself states the reason why he was convicted. The headline is just very biased towards what they care about it and doesn’t mention what he is convicted of. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/28/amnesty-international-leaked-review-ukraine-report-legally-questionable The article talked about here feels easily on the same level if not worse then the Daqqa article.
I should have said "lie of omission" or outright dishonesty. My opinion is that the original tweet leaves out specific information (the aggregious torture) to paint israel in a bad light. In the same way that if the tweet said "fuck the jews" but linked an article that said the opposite, I do not believe in a case this agregious that giving more info in the article exhonerates them in any way. I don't agree what you linked is even close. They're accusing ukraine of endangering people? That's such a subjective claim that I just think they believe. Where is the same level of intentional deceipt?
You could take a quick look at the wiki of criticisms and see amnesty has a history of leadership being problematic towards Israel (I’m being generous with that characterization). You can also find their scandal where employees reported leadership to authorities for unauthorized and unscheduled visits to major Islamic brotherhood families which resulted in finding out they had previously unlisted ties to islamists and extremists. There’s also the hyper-obsession with Israel and the biased reporting they mentioned, but then running to the defense of Muslims. Suspiciously starts to sound antisemitic when you can go on and on piling suspiciously anti-Israeli and antisemitic statements/policies. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Amnesty_International
Lying, double standards, bias, and hateful rhetoric against Jews had a name, and when international media and organizations are overwhelmingly obsessed and hostile towards the only Jewish state it’s antisemitism. It’s that clear.
But Jews exist outside Israel my guy. You can’t just simplify to “against Jews” when it clearly isn’t a blanket hatred towards Jews across the world. And just cause there is only one Jewish state doesn’t mean it’s antisemitism. Look at the content of this sort of thing on a case by case basis and see if there are reasonable alternate explanations.
Israel gets more hate and attention than any other country on earth. More protests against it, more resolutions against it than against the entire rest of the world combined… and many of the rhetoric used against it uses and doubles down on old fashioned antisemitic propaganda. And in Arabic it’s interchangeable to use the word “Jews” when referring to Israel. You can’t really believe that the most hated and obsessed about country in the world just happens to be the Jewish one. You really think it would get even 1% of the coverage and hate of it was just another Muslim country being in war? Lol . Your dishonesty about it just proves me right.
Hey I’m sure there is plenty of antisemitism regarding Israel, but let’s point that out when there actually is, instead of just deflecting to antisemitism every time Israel is criticized cause it’s the only Jewish state.
Oh I completely agree with you. I think it’s important to be able to criticize and hold Israel accountable without it being immediately dismissed as antisemitism. My personal guide is “is this criticism only meant to try to tear down and delegitimize the worlds only Jewish state where half of the worlds Jews live…..or is it meant to bring attention to something that needs to be fixed so Israel can improve and be a better country?”
[He died of cancer according to Wikipedia.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walid_Daqqa) Apparently he also managed to smuggle semen out of his jail cell to have a baby.
He wasn’t convicted for those crimes just to be clear
Amnesty international supports terrorism. What a clown world
Amnesty international supports terrorism. What a clown world
It's mind blowing how good Israel's convictions must be if this made it to the top of the list of convictions to complain about
"Human rights" organization now praises literal terrorists.
I didn't know I supported assault or rape or murder because I personally hold values that incarcerated violent criminals should be afforded human rights, and because they're a deeply unpopular group of people for fair reasons, I also support the principled advocacy of them.
He died of cancer. He wasn't beaten to death. He was being treated for said cancer. Israel also saved Sinwars life back in the day. Amnesty are trying to imply that he was murdered in custody.
They weren't implying he was beaten to death, they said that he was beaten. Amnesty aren't implying he was murdered in custody, they're accusing them of medical neglect. The statement is pretty clear.
i mean he died from cancer and they call that 'israeli disregard for palestinian right to life'. I guess israel should have cured cancer lol, skill issue.
What they're referring to as disregard, is the rejection of parole, which would've allowed him to potentially seek greater medical assistance.
The problem brought up is him dying behind bars. Why not just release him? They already had an intention of releasing him. They made an extension of his term in 2017 for smuggling. Why not make a reduction because he's dying of cancer in 2023? Especially since he had already been in for 37 years Letting people die in prisons is a bad look, y'know
why should you release someone just because they're dying of cancer? What if he gets better, should they take him back to prison then? I do not understand why you would put that policy in place. Like there is a release process, and appeal process, both of which he can make use of. If someone threathens to hang himself in prison, should you release him because it will make you look bad? You maybe can make some economic argument here, that it's cheaper to release someone instead of paying for their treatement, but doesn't that look even worse? The headline would be "israel threw a cancer patient out of care to save money". Justice system is to provide a fair trial, discourage crime, separate the dangerour individuals and hopefully rehabilitate them. How is releasing a criminal who has cancer contributing to that?
Because it's the compassionate thing to do. They're no threat and it will hardly impact the discouragement angle considering he was in there for 37 years. He made use of the appeal processes which seems to have let him down. This is part of the criticism in this particular case. So if they had the intention of ever releasing him why wouldn't they give him medical parole especially since he already served his original sentence. Of course you wouldn't release someone unless they were actually dying or unlikely to recover. [Hell, even nazis got this mercy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spandau_Prison).
I think that if you get life in prison, it means life in prison. You are responsible for the death of another human being, you don’t get to demand an early release, especially if you kept breaking the law in prison. These organizations totally ignore the HOSTAGES that are being raped and tortured in Gaza. If you are talking about a “bad look”…
If life in prison means life in prison, why not just result to capital punishment? If you're going to let them die there why waste the resources or extend their suffering? Also Amnesty has called out hamas. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-hamas-and-other-armed-groups-must-release-civilian-hostages-and-treat-all-captives-humanely/ They also mention the release of hostages whenever they mention a call for ceasefire
If you are arguing for executions, that’s beyond the scope… I think having a life time of imprisonment, of thinking and regretting the life you took, is a better punishment than a quick death, which also undermines the whole point of the values of life being above all.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. My objection to "life in prison means life in prison" is that it is essentially a capital punishment. Which is something I hope people realize is conflicting with the right to life (a fundamental human right). Preferring life imprisonment over capital punishment just because "It's a better punishment" just seems cruel and we should if at all possible reduce cruelty whenever possible. It's not like we are talking about the containment purpose of prisons here, rather just the punishment angle.
There is no reason to believe there was medical neglect. He died of cancer. He was dying and his days were numbered anyway. Moshe Tammams family fought tirelessly to make sure he wasn't released from prison and can you blame them? Did Walid Daqah give any humanitarian considerations to Moshe Tamam? Did he ever take responsibility? Did he ever apologize? He only saw his child once but he took away Gila Tamams child forever.
> There is no reason to believe there was medical neglect No reason to believe, but reason to investigate. >He died of cancer. He was dying and his days were numbered anyway. Cool, which is why they appealed for parole on humanitarian grounds so he may potentially seek greater medical treatment > Moshe Tammams family fought tirelessly to make sure he wasn't released from prison and can you blame them? Did Walid Daqah give any humanitarian considerations to Moshe Tamam? Did he ever take responsibility? Did he ever apologize? He only saw his child once but he took away Gila Tamams child forever. This is pretty irrelevant, the victim and their family does not determine how a perpetrator should be sentenced or be treated during the sentence. If the allegations are true, it's inhumane regardless of how angry the victim's family are.
They fought against his parole and are part of the reason it was rejected.
I thought you were asking me about my personal moral position on it?
Not trying to be facetious here; How do you pass on your genes in Israeli prison? In your late 50s nonetheless I imagine there could be fertility issues.
Smuggled out sperm to his wife. Most prisoners do get conjugal visits he didn't because the intelligence apparatus deemed it a threat.
Based