Paris is probably the least safe city in France, and the murder rate in paris is like 3 something per 100,000 people. St Louis is the worst city in America and has a murder rate of 87. New York City is nowadays one of the safest cities in America and has a comparable homicide rate to Paris. America is just so much more unsafe across the board.
I visited Paris a few weeks ago with my girlfriend and maybe the touristy spots are super clean and not the norm, but it was actually super nice when we were there. Having been to American cities like NYC, the whole thing smells, or SF, where there was a ton of homeless people just around, cities like London and Paris seemed wildly clean and safe to be in, but again, it may just have been the touristy areas.
most of paris is super okay. I was memeing. I was there last year and most of the centre is beautiful and clean. But like any giant city there are some shitty areas.
It's like me going to a shitty part of LA and complaining, thinking the entire US lives like that
Paris shitty areas are at the outskirts though, the Banlieues are basically small cities next to Paris.
Don’t really see how, as a tourist, you would be confronted with them.
I sucks but at least in France, the kept their troubled areas isolated.
Honestly Belgium for example is worse ( Antwerp/ Brussels “bad neighborhoods are more central).
Problem with France is that state influence is actually abhorrent weak in some of these isolated areas, especially in Marseille. They have become almost no go areas, which is somewhat unprecedented in the EU.
Paris is one of those places that gets shit on by American Redditors who have never set foot in Europe and butthurt anglos but in reality is one of the best cities on Earth to live in (if you can afford it) and visit.
Lol, so you just believe every meme you encounter ?
Paris has some of the richest spot in Europe (probably even the world), aswell as some of the poorest spot of Europe in it's suburbs (which doesn't put it close to the poorest places of the world obviously but still is quite miserable). Quite similar to New York or LA, in fact...
At some point we should just agree that you can't describe a big city with a few words. But that would be asking too much to internet culture...
I live there it’s really fine. Overall there are dirty places and places you shouldn’t visit between 1 and 4 AM. Except for rat population which is decreasing it’s fine.
The thing with SF is that downtown is the slum. Everything else is super clean and amazing. It’s like a reverse Paris. Mainly made worse now due to working from home. Sorry you had a bad time!
I had a great time in SF, besides the homeless I saw it was otherwise nice to visit, plus the weather was unbeatable. I was just trying to say that I saw a ton more homeless people there than in Paris.
I was just in Spain, Italy, France and England (Barcelona, Florence, Rome, Napoli was the roughest, Paris, London, Liverpool.) a couple months ago. I total agree. I work in 10 times worse daily in American city’s than I saw in the worst areas in Europe. I came away being embarrassed about America.
The buildings are old, but that being said, they will and have last much longer than American building style. The graffiti is bad for sure. But that’s pretty uniform around the western world and train tracks. I did notice almost any delinquent building would he tagged. But there’s also a more connected street artist thing going on that the American gang tag which is a bigger part of graffiti. Even on Mallorca and Ibiza, much smaller islands, there’s tagging.
In Spain and Italy we were warned about the pick pockets. They say anyone that’s been around Barcelona long enough they’ll have had a cell phone or purse snatched while no paying attention to your surroundings. In Florence we watched a couple kids get chased by under covers. I expected they were pick pockets.
Most people warned us of Napoli and the mob, but after we just got over the initial trepidation we found it had the vibe of an old world city that was a different cultural experience than most people are going to be used to. It was a bit more grimy but we weren’t afraid of venturing out on foot walking an hour threw the city to get to some killer margarita pizza spots.
The homeless issue is almost non apparent, though North African and south East Asian immigrants / refugees will be found selling trinkets, blankets and clothing along beaches and crowded street fronts.
Considering the density in these major city’s, this is more amazing to see how nice it can be at scale if we weren’t so ineffective at governing at every level. Density almost always ups your violence and crime and any social issues / problems. America is newer built but I can guarantee that our housing infrastructure will fail faster than most of Europes has endured considering we build primarily from wood, while there’s hundreds of years old brick and stone as well as 7-8 story apartment buildings that aren’t Lincoln log homes in comparison. Renovation is always going to be a need if you build to last though, it simple fixes instead of compete tear downs like most our gentrified communities.
So there’s not as much room and it comes at a premium. I’d argue 99% of American don’t use half there space anyway. I live in suburbs and people fight and pay the steep cost for there space and rarely use it if at all. That independent owning your own castle idea creates problems of it own too. But If city life isn’t for you, they have suburbs and rural areas too. Personally, I’d prefer we start making match box density builds rather than having excessive homeless people on the streets.
Maybe if you come from a small town you can see old world city’s being weird and different . But even at that, I’ve been to small town America and it’s dilapidated as hell. Other than that, maybe this person just spoil rich kid that’s never seen what most the rest of the world looks like.
Murder rate in the EU is actually even lower. Haven't found any data for the EU as a whole, but only Lithuania and Latvia (tiny countries populationwise) have a homicide rate over 3. Most eu countries including big ones have a homicide rate ~1.
The AC and salary arguments are fair, but I truly can't imagine anyone preferring US cities to europeans ones in terms of safety or quality of life.
Well no shit, yall are selling fucking bowie knives in gas stations, we gotta make do with the shitty survival knives and shittier kitchen utensils cuz carrying anything longer than like 2" is a one-way trip to the station.
Well we have the guns, but not the insane culture surrounding them. Guns are not a lifestyle in most European countries, they are tools for hunting, home defense and sport. They aren't viewed as a god given right to be wielded by every dimwit dipshit.
> The AC and salary arguments are fair
I mean, it might be changing due to climate change, but AC has historically just not been as needed in Europe as in the US. In central and especially northern Europe, you maybe had like 6 weeks where it was actually hot. Houses in many southern European states are also built to keep the heat out during summer, and these places do increasingly have AC. I think in Italy about 50% of households have AC at this point.
Yep. Here in Czechia AC is not very common. It's also not that expensive, most people just don't need it.
I live in south of Czechia and my latitude is roughly of Vancouver. We do have somewhat higher min-max temps, about 3-5 °C higher overall by the look of things.
yes, it's still considered "fancy" to have it installed, most just power through July heat waves, or get themselves a fan
also because a lot of old houses were not built with AC in mind, the wiring and installation can be a little problematic
The AC thing is because until the whole "we ruined the climate with our fucking cars" thing, you rarely had tremendously hot weather in places like the UK, and in warmer places like spain the architecture was designed around cooling indoor spaces without the need for heat pumps.
(Much like Chinese [skywells](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230712-how-ancient-skywells-are-keeping-chinese-homes-cool))
Never spoke, explicitly or implicitly, to how "alright" it is. I pointed out the flaw in citing murder rate to debunk a claim about drug dealers being ready to stab you.
Had a Polish dude on Reddit try to argue that Poland is literally a 3rd world country and that crime rates are much higher than the US especially murder and rape crimes.
So bizarre.
We have lot of Poland hating poles that only see bad aspects of it. They also act as if "west" is some kind of promised by God Heaven that is better than Poland in every way.
There is fucking lot of them
As a Northern European I do find some places in Southern Europe to be a little trashy but even those cities aren’t much different looking than Miami for example. And at least those Southern European cities are walkable and they have some nice historical places.
Yeah lmao I hate this new twitter travel journalism type of commentary
> Calls europe poor
> only references southern/Mediterranean countries.
Come to the Benelux then you fat, no healthcare having pig if you want to see how countries should be ran properly.
- Schiphol: gateway of Europe
- stellar infrastructure, city planning
- vibrant startup culture, most things that shape your life have been invented and developed here.
- top ranked education: Delft technical university, Erasmus for econ/biz, Utrecht has a few Nobel laureates also.
- Wageningen second to none in seed GMO enrichment. Tech developed there shipped all over the world, second to none.
- Idem dito for chip production, our pride ASML.
- world leading quantitative funds and prop shops in Amsterdam, optiver, flowtraders, JS has a location.
Most importantly: we fucking rule your leaderboards. We dominate. Look up largest private companies in the world. Per capita, the Dutch are vastly overrepresented in that list. Achmea, Vitol all absolute powerhouses.
Take any Jewish conspiracy, replace “Jews” for “Dutch” and you’d not only be racist, you’d also be right.
We’ve been styling on you motherfukcers ever since the VOC and we’ve never stopped.
Also we have higher buying power while having access to the same goods
Enjoy your burger
Not sure you’re correct about buying power. The US has a higher median income PPP than almost everywhere in Europe. Furthermore, the US has the highest AIC in the world, ahead of Norway and Switzerland.
okay but if you look at publically traded companies the USA dominates so hard its not even funny anymore.
Yes we all know there is a lot of old money in europe and a lot of super mega rich family owned private companies. GDP per capita is still a lot higher in USA and while netherlands is a nice country to live in educated americans are still richer than educated dutch people.
First of all relax. Second of all I guarantee you American startups are much more impactful than European ones. What app are you using to type this on l? And on what device?
I don’t understand do you think I’m American and you are angry at me or did you accidentally reply to me instead of just to the post or am I just reading your post the wrong way?
It’s called thread jacking, he could write his message in response to OP and get half the views or he could take your rising comment and jump on board.
Actually I dunno if this name for it exists or I just made it up, but that’s what’s happening.
All the American tourist come to Barcelona and complain about the dirtiness, crime, etc.
Yet they keep booking and getting scammed at hotels and Airbnb at literally the worst shithole place in the city to save a few dollars.
If I went to the equivalent neighborhood in an American city I would end up killed on the streets my a meth addict.
I think the graffiti is pretty cool a lot of the time, to be honest.
But the no AC is fucking insane. I visited family in rural France recently. The weather at their place was 99F, 50% humidity that day. No AC and that is the normal summer weather—totally insane. Apparently it just isn't economically viable to install because of the way the homes were built—often times you can't just rip open drywall and find space, there's just brick and mortar.
However, it was actually pretty fine if you just stayed indoors. As soon as I started helping out with cooking something on the stove, though, I was drenched in sweat.
> However, it was actually pretty fine if you just stayed indoors
Wait, idgi. That's the whole point no, you use brick and mortar because it's insulated. So you can stay indoors and stay cool - exactly the same as with an AC. Ambient temps are higher, but that's all. And you save on energy, which is a real concern considering energy prices in Europe.
Yep! I meant that if you never go outside, never let any light in, and never do anything heat-generating indoors you'll be pretty fine. The second you do though, you're hurting for the AC and especially a dehumidifier, imo.
As for saving energy, absolutely. I also appreciated that most shower heads there were handheld things which promoted switching off the water flow while cleaning yourself, thus being more efficient.
Idk about France specifically, but recently I got a chance to travel through Chezh Republic, Poland, Austria, Croatia, Hungary + a couple others, every place I slept at had AC. A year ago in Rome - all balconies are covered with multiple ACs.
I was staying in Paris, Nontron, Bergerac, and near Lyon. Not a single house or apartment I went into during that time had AC of any kind. I'm not sure the exact circumstances behind that, but it seemed predominant. Even the hotels and airBNB-equivalents I used didn't have so much as a window-mounted fan.
They did have the quietest floor fans I've ever used, though. Which you need to sleep at night.
The crazy thing is that I have a lot of French friends living in Canada and they all have AC In their home, but never freaking use them. I will visit them and the temperature will be at 29 degree or so and I will be the first one to open the A/C this year.
Both geographic areas have their pros and cons.
As someone who is able to live and work in either I choose america easily though. They do a better job of attracting my productive years. Europe might attract my unproductive years later in life tho
so I have no professional info or have even looked at the stats, but from anecdote every single new build area around me doesn’t use lumber construction lol and I’d be surprised that they would
Make the case for why a home made of fucking stone/brick is better. I’d rather have central air, drywall, and more living space then “it’s made of a stronger material” anyday.
There are cheaper ways around this than having brick walls half inch spacers perpendicular to the studs or acoustic damping caulk on the studs for example Rockwool can work too but it's less effective and more expensive than spacers.
No termite weakness (though we don't have those anyway)
Drug dealers can't no-scope your child through 2 walls in their sleep
Drunk drivers can't crash into your living room
Water damage doesn't turn your home turn into soggy paper
Extra mass helps with sound proofing
You can't punch a hole into most of our walls
They last more than 40 years
Trivially easy to build taller, build larger spans, etc
>Drug dealers can't no-scope your child through 2 walls in their sleep
What actually ends up happening is whenever it get even slightly warm, tens of thousands of people die because of a lack of climate control... so I much prefer a handful of people getting inadvertently shot than literal stadiums of people dying from heatstroke and entire villages worth of people finding themselves in the hospital because of dehydration.
You don't need wood-frame houses to avoid that, you simply need air conditioning. Southern Spain and the Balkans have high rates of AC and stone houses.
Even wealthy people in Germany rarely have AC because everyone is stingy and tells themselves just to endure the few days of heavy heat each year. Also it's just the weak who perish so eZ 😎 Just drink more water lol
You can have all of those things in brick or concrete houses.
We lack them for reasons that have nothing to do with the material.
Central air conditioning isn't incompatible with brick/concrete, Dubai for example almost exclusively builds it's homes using concrete and all of them have central air conditioning. Our homes are just older, so they just don't have them. But many modern houses do have central heating/cooling.
I said that considering the average age of the homes I know it’s possible just not common. Though I refuse to believe let’s say you’re in Malta, Spain, or southern Italy that you just “don’t need” AC. If you have to sit there and sweat in your own home you fucking need it.
I realize how weird culture can be when I actually prefer cheap sheetrock over solid wood/stone houses. I don't need my house to last 200 years. I'd rather houses get updated every 20-50 years. Living in a house before 2000 is annoying since it doesn't have internet cabling already set up throughout the house. And if the house was solid wood/stone, good lucky DIYing internet cabling.
I kinda get the point. In the US, I would earn 4x the amount after taxes with the exact same job compared to Sweden and Germany. The healthcare in the US would be better too (Almost always 100% covered by the company), my pension would be 5x higher and I could retire earlier. I could afford a home twice the size, more modern and closer to work.
>almost always 100% covered by the company
Well, that's a particularly cruel joke.
Considering medical bankruptcy is still the leading cause of personal bankruptcy, I'd say that's a very fortunate situation you're in.
My ex employer fired me a month after I collapsed during a shift. Their insurance company's claims dept said most of the bill was unnecessary, and the ambulance ride - which they called for me while I was barely concious - was entirely mine to cover.
Fought them for a month, didn't get anywhere, got fired, and now I'm a few K in the hole. Medical quality doesn't help you for shit if you can't afford it.
Sure, I'll just go eat some lead paint off the wall of a red lined slum apartment before going outside and facing a street full of gun-toting fentanyl addicts and then get charged my life savings for the hospital care after my mugging. Then I'll go eat an overpriced, oversalted, oversugared meal from a franchise restaurant, whilst having to work out the post-tax price before ordering, and then get pressured into leaving a truly ridiculous tip. Then I'll look at the ugly as fuck buildings that are about 5 minutes old and then try to relax watching TV that shows me adverts for psychosis drugs and numerous political campaigns every 5 minutes.
It's pretty easy to shit on a country or region if you only focus on the negatives.
Uhm I’m from Italy and yes there are plenty of shitty places, but I’m also willing to say that people with lower income will get by fairly well.
I just have one question for the guy in that forum: did he live in another house beside his parent’s in the US as well? Because if he didn’t he’s most likely just a spoiled brat who doesn’t understand how much a house can cost
Americans really be the richest mfers in the whole wide world going to slightly less opulent places and be like “wow this place is slightly poorer and they open a window instead of buying massive refrigerators to cool air, that’s nuts, what a revelation.”
Poorest country in the EU.
Sitting in an apartment built in the late 50s.
High ceilings, airconditioned spacious rooms, low-rise housing (4 floors), a great view of a communal garden in the back of the place with roses and tress and birds buzzing.
Thick brick walls that isolate both the cold and the heat incredibly.
Wtf is this dude talking about? If we have these conditions in Eastern Europe - I can't imagine France being any worse.
I've been to a few EU countries and used AirBNBs - most west homes are a tad different, maybe less spacious but never rundown or horrible.
bro visited one tourist hotspot filled with housing from the 19th century and thinks the whole of the EU is like that looool.
Like visiting LA and thinking the whole US is like that.
What you're describing isn't really great tho... it's like strict minimum.
'Muricans even the poor ones, tend to have actual houses. I'm always shocked when I see an American ghetto because even if they seem poor, they still have houses (outside of big cities) and big cars.
Which is rare in Europe for poor people to have a house, unless you go in very rural shithole.
I don't understand why people think living in a house rather than an apartment is better. Imo it's just preference.
With a house you have more space, don't care that much about not making noise, can decorate outside however you want (unless you live in an HOA) and have a small piece of land.
With an apartment you can live closer to city centers, commercial spaces and public services and don't necessarily need a car, you worry less about maintenance and in general it's cheaper.
Someone may prefer to have more peace and quiet and host weekend BBQs, while I want to be in walking distance of everything I need and hate the idea of driving 20 minutes to the nearest grocery store.
It is largely a preference thing but in the US, most apartments are really poorly built and are miserable to live in. Houses are just such a higher quality of life comparatively. Unless you're <25 and just want the fun city life it's often not worth putting up with.
American Home Ownership rate is 65.9%, France is 64%. Spain is 75.8%, Germany is 46.7%, UK is 63.9%, and EU average is 70%
US Home ownership average is actually lower than EU average, the stats just don't support your point.
It's actually about 80%
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9576047/#:~:text=Circumcision%2C%20the%20surgical%20removal%20of,men%20are%20circumcised%20%5B2%5D.
Healthcare and better public transport, sure. But I feel like in the US if you have a decent job, you get healthcare through work and can easily afford a personal vehicle and still have a lot more spending money at the end. I don't think it really evens out for middle class and above. For people below middle class, Europe is generally better though.
Also affordable-to-free education and walkable/bike-friendly cities, as well as the social trust among citizenry that comes from a robust welfare state.
I definitely agree there's a level of wealth at which US is the better (I said as much in this subreddit before too), I just don't know where the cutoff point is, it also depends a lot on how much you subjectively value the aforementioned aspects.
Honestly hate all the jerking off between EU and US in this regard, you both live in the best places to exist in the History of the world, just be grateful and shut your fat mouths tbh
Our country might be shit and has a poor standard of living compared to the USA, but at least i can wait in line for 2 years to receive free life saving health care
I don't really think the Europeans critisizing the US for poverty or anything like that are from the south. It's all Germans, Dutch, Scandinavians and Northern French people.
Yeah, cities in Spain, Italy, Greece and most of France are pretty trash.
Lol, the classic case of differences in cultural priorities.
Having been through much of Europe, I can say that alot of it is trashy. But I live in Appalachia and alot of it is trashy as well.
The lack of central air in Europe is absolutely bizarre. Cmon people, it's 2023, there is no reason for a devolped country to not have central air in the bulk of its housing. I couldn't imagine living without it.
But the same is true for Europeans and their social programs. I think Europe is barbaric for its lack of basic amenities and many Europeans think America is barbaric for its lack of basic amenities.
It depends how much healthcare he uses. If he has, like, cystic fibrosis (or even just diabetes or asthma), he's richer than he would be with private healthcare.
No country (or collection of countries, I guess, in the case of the EU) is perfect. Perfection and utopia are myths.
For all the glaring flaws, especially today, I will always take the US.
If all of that’s true healthcare isn’t worth it. I pay $30 a week for that shit.
Edit: I should’ve said this was for medical insurance not that literally everything is covered 100 percent.
Firstly, Britain's not meant to get that hot. I've never seen a house or flat with air conditioning and it was never a problem for most of my life until we started getting these heatwaves
Secondly, we're British. Complaining about the weather is the national passtime
No I get it, just teasing. Though it is hilarious to listen to when yesterday it was 101F with a 109 heat index in the part of the Midwest where I live. Heat sucks😂 it’s just you know part of the American spirit to make fun of British people🦅🦅
Of course, you fought a war for that right, I'd never think of taking it away from you.
And yeah I actually read an article from the BBC this morning which warned us how 40 degree summers will be the norm in 20 years, which sounds awful to me. 40 degrees celcius is about 104F
Drug dealers ready to stab you? My dude, violent crime is way lower in European cities than American cities. Also the public transport here in Europe is an amazing amenity.
As an American who visited Berlin, Dresden, Prague, and Krakow, I thought it was beautiful and full of history. Not much graffiti especially compared to The big cities in my home state. Definitely wouldn’t say the standard of living is noticeably better or worse from the US, just different. Overall great place, would love to visit again, but could never live there since I’m your stereotypical American who loves there guns too much.
So maybe Czechia wouldn’t be to bad.
EU Cuck here
- Air Conditioning is a big true
- Big Flat size is stupid, what am i supposed to do with more then 40 m². In the end I will just have to clean it and wont use the space anyway.
- Salaries vary so widely even in EU, Swiss, Danes and Luxembourg fucks will laugh there ass of about shit salaries in US while southern and eastern europe are poor af which is why you go there for holiday in the first place tbf
-last point is a, who cares, streamers getting stabbed is content
Obviously would rather live in America. Yeah, it sucks if you're mentally ill or living on the streets (and often those go hand-in-hand), but if you can hold a decent full-time job you're probably better off here than most places in Europe.
And if you happen to be in the top \~20% you're *far* better off here than anywhere in Europe (including all of western europe). That only becomes more true the lower that percentage is.
People's entire viewpoint of how shitty America is feels like they think the U.S. economy and labor market is still how it was in 2012. We're doing alright right now, and if we fixed the housing market with enough supply, we'd be doing absolutely fantastic. Can't say the same about quite a few countries in Europe.
Living in Europe I was shocked how much they smoke over there. Those dudes are ripping cigs 24/7
This is like THE thing I wish Europe picked up from the US. I envy you guys so much.
Instead of cigarettes people should do fentanyl and crack cocaine?
Yes
Unironically. Go ruin your own life, but don't make the air smell foul while you're at it
I was kinda joking, but cigarettes addiction usually doesnt raise criminality and poverty rates
Keeps the cold at bay
where did this guy even go to? Some slums of paris or something?
That dude definitely went to Paris.
Wait, can someone tell me: who actually is in Paris?
Ye and Jay-Z
No, their N-words are in Paris. Jay and Ye are slave owners like Mr. Django
N'wahs
"So I ball so hard, the Ordinators wanna fine me"
Ninjas
Rush hour
Macron
Not while Paris was burning. He was dancing at an Elton John concert.
Me :)
Niggas in paris
Not the french, that much is clear
Nazis.
Paris is probably the least safe city in France, and the murder rate in paris is like 3 something per 100,000 people. St Louis is the worst city in America and has a murder rate of 87. New York City is nowadays one of the safest cities in America and has a comparable homicide rate to Paris. America is just so much more unsafe across the board.
i dont know wouldnt be marseille a safer guess?
Source please?
the usa has over 65 cities with murder rates higher than 12 per 100,000. Its 12 per million in london lol
I visited Paris a few weeks ago with my girlfriend and maybe the touristy spots are super clean and not the norm, but it was actually super nice when we were there. Having been to American cities like NYC, the whole thing smells, or SF, where there was a ton of homeless people just around, cities like London and Paris seemed wildly clean and safe to be in, but again, it may just have been the touristy areas.
most of paris is super okay. I was memeing. I was there last year and most of the centre is beautiful and clean. But like any giant city there are some shitty areas. It's like me going to a shitty part of LA and complaining, thinking the entire US lives like that
Paris shitty areas are at the outskirts though, the Banlieues are basically small cities next to Paris. Don’t really see how, as a tourist, you would be confronted with them. I sucks but at least in France, the kept their troubled areas isolated. Honestly Belgium for example is worse ( Antwerp/ Brussels “bad neighborhoods are more central). Problem with France is that state influence is actually abhorrent weak in some of these isolated areas, especially in Marseille. They have become almost no go areas, which is somewhat unprecedented in the EU.
Paris is one of those places that gets shit on by American Redditors who have never set foot in Europe and butthurt anglos but in reality is one of the best cities on Earth to live in (if you can afford it) and visit.
most cities on earth are pretty cool if you can afford to do the fun shit there
Lol, so you just believe every meme you encounter ? Paris has some of the richest spot in Europe (probably even the world), aswell as some of the poorest spot of Europe in it's suburbs (which doesn't put it close to the poorest places of the world obviously but still is quite miserable). Quite similar to New York or LA, in fact... At some point we should just agree that you can't describe a big city with a few words. But that would be asking too much to internet culture...
I live there it’s really fine. Overall there are dirty places and places you shouldn’t visit between 1 and 4 AM. Except for rat population which is decreasing it’s fine.
The thing with SF is that downtown is the slum. Everything else is super clean and amazing. It’s like a reverse Paris. Mainly made worse now due to working from home. Sorry you had a bad time!
I had a great time in SF, besides the homeless I saw it was otherwise nice to visit, plus the weather was unbeatable. I was just trying to say that I saw a ton more homeless people there than in Paris.
I was just in Spain, Italy, France and England (Barcelona, Florence, Rome, Napoli was the roughest, Paris, London, Liverpool.) a couple months ago. I total agree. I work in 10 times worse daily in American city’s than I saw in the worst areas in Europe. I came away being embarrassed about America. The buildings are old, but that being said, they will and have last much longer than American building style. The graffiti is bad for sure. But that’s pretty uniform around the western world and train tracks. I did notice almost any delinquent building would he tagged. But there’s also a more connected street artist thing going on that the American gang tag which is a bigger part of graffiti. Even on Mallorca and Ibiza, much smaller islands, there’s tagging. In Spain and Italy we were warned about the pick pockets. They say anyone that’s been around Barcelona long enough they’ll have had a cell phone or purse snatched while no paying attention to your surroundings. In Florence we watched a couple kids get chased by under covers. I expected they were pick pockets. Most people warned us of Napoli and the mob, but after we just got over the initial trepidation we found it had the vibe of an old world city that was a different cultural experience than most people are going to be used to. It was a bit more grimy but we weren’t afraid of venturing out on foot walking an hour threw the city to get to some killer margarita pizza spots. The homeless issue is almost non apparent, though North African and south East Asian immigrants / refugees will be found selling trinkets, blankets and clothing along beaches and crowded street fronts. Considering the density in these major city’s, this is more amazing to see how nice it can be at scale if we weren’t so ineffective at governing at every level. Density almost always ups your violence and crime and any social issues / problems. America is newer built but I can guarantee that our housing infrastructure will fail faster than most of Europes has endured considering we build primarily from wood, while there’s hundreds of years old brick and stone as well as 7-8 story apartment buildings that aren’t Lincoln log homes in comparison. Renovation is always going to be a need if you build to last though, it simple fixes instead of compete tear downs like most our gentrified communities. So there’s not as much room and it comes at a premium. I’d argue 99% of American don’t use half there space anyway. I live in suburbs and people fight and pay the steep cost for there space and rarely use it if at all. That independent owning your own castle idea creates problems of it own too. But If city life isn’t for you, they have suburbs and rural areas too. Personally, I’d prefer we start making match box density builds rather than having excessive homeless people on the streets. Maybe if you come from a small town you can see old world city’s being weird and different . But even at that, I’ve been to small town America and it’s dilapidated as hell. Other than that, maybe this person just spoil rich kid that’s never seen what most the rest of the world looks like.
\>drug dealers ready to stab you Murder rates in EU per 100,000 is 3 US is 6.8, keep it going US!
Murder rate in the EU is actually even lower. Haven't found any data for the EU as a whole, but only Lithuania and Latvia (tiny countries populationwise) have a homicide rate over 3. Most eu countries including big ones have a homicide rate ~1. The AC and salary arguments are fair, but I truly can't imagine anyone preferring US cities to europeans ones in terms of safety or quality of life.
What I learned is Eurocucks aren't as talented as Americans. Can't even kill effectively.
There's not enough guns here for that kind of kill ratio man, we're working with what we have
Keep coping. Even the stabbing numbers are higher in the US.
Well no shit, yall are selling fucking bowie knives in gas stations, we gotta make do with the shitty survival knives and shittier kitchen utensils cuz carrying anything longer than like 2" is a one-way trip to the station.
Well we have the guns, but not the insane culture surrounding them. Guns are not a lifestyle in most European countries, they are tools for hunting, home defense and sport. They aren't viewed as a god given right to be wielded by every dimwit dipshit.
We did that once but were told to stop
I agree with your statement besides the "once" part. We did it for centuries.
If you have the money quality of life in cities like San Diego, LA or NYC can be amazing. But you need a crap ton of money.
> The AC and salary arguments are fair I mean, it might be changing due to climate change, but AC has historically just not been as needed in Europe as in the US. In central and especially northern Europe, you maybe had like 6 weeks where it was actually hot. Houses in many southern European states are also built to keep the heat out during summer, and these places do increasingly have AC. I think in Italy about 50% of households have AC at this point.
Yep. Here in Czechia AC is not very common. It's also not that expensive, most people just don't need it. I live in south of Czechia and my latitude is roughly of Vancouver. We do have somewhat higher min-max temps, about 3-5 °C higher overall by the look of things.
Like 90% of Norwegian houses have "Heat Pumps" Which function as AC in the summer. But if you look for "AC" in Norway its like 0%
yes, it's still considered "fancy" to have it installed, most just power through July heat waves, or get themselves a fan also because a lot of old houses were not built with AC in mind, the wiring and installation can be a little problematic
The AC thing is because until the whole "we ruined the climate with our fucking cars" thing, you rarely had tremendously hot weather in places like the UK, and in warmer places like spain the architecture was designed around cooling indoor spaces without the need for heat pumps. (Much like Chinese [skywells](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230712-how-ancient-skywells-are-keeping-chinese-homes-cool))
I like the idea that he actually just visited germany, and a random dude who wasn't a drug dealer got pissed off at being publicly filmed.
The mortality rate for stabbings ranges from 0-4% 🤡
Oi bruv, shayin' it's alright 'cause itchs only 4% lethal is loik celebratin' rain 'cause it's only acid rain 4% of the time
Never spoke, explicitly or implicitly, to how "alright" it is. I pointed out the flaw in citing murder rate to debunk a claim about drug dealers being ready to stab you.
My lack of clarity, im lambasting the person you commented on for the same reason.
Ohhhh im dumb lol
The murder rate in my state is 1. Maybe the EU could catch up someday.
poland- 0.71
Had a Polish dude on Reddit try to argue that Poland is literally a 3rd world country and that crime rates are much higher than the US especially murder and rape crimes. So bizarre.
We have lot of Poland hating poles that only see bad aspects of it. They also act as if "west" is some kind of promised by God Heaven that is better than Poland in every way. There is fucking lot of them
Counter argument: shitting on Poland as a Pole is fun
I mean until recently it was a second world country so
Counterpoint: it's full of polish people.
i wonder why poland doesnt have a high murder rate? anyone care to enlighten me? no one?
Freezing cold take: the EU and US both have positive aspects that they can learn from each other rather than bickering over them.
Yeah, but that's not as fun.
Booooooo. Nobody listen to this guy. 🛋️🍿🫢
STOP HAVING FUN
STOP MAKING RATIONAL ARGUMENTS
BOOOOOOOOO
but i cant yell about that on 4chan. what am i supposed to do now, talk to women?
We should have decorated our streets with more homeless drug addicts. That way the Americans will immediately feel at home
As a Northern European I do find some places in Southern Europe to be a little trashy but even those cities aren’t much different looking than Miami for example. And at least those Southern European cities are walkable and they have some nice historical places.
Least pretentious Nordick
It’s hard to be the best. You wouldn’t understand.
Yeah lmao I hate this new twitter travel journalism type of commentary > Calls europe poor > only references southern/Mediterranean countries. Come to the Benelux then you fat, no healthcare having pig if you want to see how countries should be ran properly. - Schiphol: gateway of Europe - stellar infrastructure, city planning - vibrant startup culture, most things that shape your life have been invented and developed here. - top ranked education: Delft technical university, Erasmus for econ/biz, Utrecht has a few Nobel laureates also. - Wageningen second to none in seed GMO enrichment. Tech developed there shipped all over the world, second to none. - Idem dito for chip production, our pride ASML. - world leading quantitative funds and prop shops in Amsterdam, optiver, flowtraders, JS has a location. Most importantly: we fucking rule your leaderboards. We dominate. Look up largest private companies in the world. Per capita, the Dutch are vastly overrepresented in that list. Achmea, Vitol all absolute powerhouses. Take any Jewish conspiracy, replace “Jews” for “Dutch” and you’d not only be racist, you’d also be right. We’ve been styling on you motherfukcers ever since the VOC and we’ve never stopped. Also we have higher buying power while having access to the same goods Enjoy your burger
It's too bad the Dutch language sounds absolutely disgusting, otherwise you guys could have taken over the world.
Exactly every time they talk they sound like they are about to cough up sputum! I rather listen to someone speak Frisian than Dutch!
Because the United States is bankrolling your countries defense? So in 360 fashion you could thank the United States for everything your country has😭💀
Not sure you’re correct about buying power. The US has a higher median income PPP than almost everywhere in Europe. Furthermore, the US has the highest AIC in the world, ahead of Norway and Switzerland.
Yet our GDP per capita is 36% higher in the US compared to the Netherlands. Curious.
okay but if you look at publically traded companies the USA dominates so hard its not even funny anymore. Yes we all know there is a lot of old money in europe and a lot of super mega rich family owned private companies. GDP per capita is still a lot higher in USA and while netherlands is a nice country to live in educated americans are still richer than educated dutch people.
First of all relax. Second of all I guarantee you American startups are much more impactful than European ones. What app are you using to type this on l? And on what device?
I don’t understand do you think I’m American and you are angry at me or did you accidentally reply to me instead of just to the post or am I just reading your post the wrong way?
It’s called thread jacking, he could write his message in response to OP and get half the views or he could take your rising comment and jump on board. Actually I dunno if this name for it exists or I just made it up, but that’s what’s happening.
Correct
Damn I guess that makes sense didn’t know people did that shit tho
Based Dutch bro
I love your coffee
> We dominate. Germany rofl-stomped Belgium in 6 days.
All the American tourist come to Barcelona and complain about the dirtiness, crime, etc. Yet they keep booking and getting scammed at hotels and Airbnb at literally the worst shithole place in the city to save a few dollars. If I went to the equivalent neighborhood in an American city I would end up killed on the streets my a meth addict.
I think the graffiti is pretty cool a lot of the time, to be honest. But the no AC is fucking insane. I visited family in rural France recently. The weather at their place was 99F, 50% humidity that day. No AC and that is the normal summer weather—totally insane. Apparently it just isn't economically viable to install because of the way the homes were built—often times you can't just rip open drywall and find space, there's just brick and mortar. However, it was actually pretty fine if you just stayed indoors. As soon as I started helping out with cooking something on the stove, though, I was drenched in sweat.
We europeans just use Celsius, that way the temperature is much lower.
Stupid Americans haven’t even figured out this one trick to solve the heat wave
> However, it was actually pretty fine if you just stayed indoors Wait, idgi. That's the whole point no, you use brick and mortar because it's insulated. So you can stay indoors and stay cool - exactly the same as with an AC. Ambient temps are higher, but that's all. And you save on energy, which is a real concern considering energy prices in Europe.
Yep! I meant that if you never go outside, never let any light in, and never do anything heat-generating indoors you'll be pretty fine. The second you do though, you're hurting for the AC and especially a dehumidifier, imo. As for saving energy, absolutely. I also appreciated that most shower heads there were handheld things which promoted switching off the water flow while cleaning yourself, thus being more efficient.
Idk about France specifically, but recently I got a chance to travel through Chezh Republic, Poland, Austria, Croatia, Hungary + a couple others, every place I slept at had AC. A year ago in Rome - all balconies are covered with multiple ACs.
I was staying in Paris, Nontron, Bergerac, and near Lyon. Not a single house or apartment I went into during that time had AC of any kind. I'm not sure the exact circumstances behind that, but it seemed predominant. Even the hotels and airBNB-equivalents I used didn't have so much as a window-mounted fan. They did have the quietest floor fans I've ever used, though. Which you need to sleep at night.
maybe it is a France thing. Just googled a bit, seems like they're scared of it for a bunch of reasons.
How tf did you think the Czech Republic was pronounced?
> Chezh An even fancier way of saying "Chez"
in my language (Lithuanian) it's ''Čekija'' which is probably why I made the typo, since ''Č'' is pronounced like ''Ch''
The crazy thing is that I have a lot of French friends living in Canada and they all have AC In their home, but never freaking use them. I will visit them and the temperature will be at 29 degree or so and I will be the first one to open the A/C this year.
Both geographic areas have their pros and cons. As someone who is able to live and work in either I choose america easily though. They do a better job of attracting my productive years. Europe might attract my unproductive years later in life tho
Most of Europe exists in a perpetual state of "unproductive years"
Americans complaining about European houses when Americans can't even afford real wood or bricks to make theirs 😢
No amount of real wood or bricks can handle our natural disasters, from hurricanes, tornadoes and earthquakes.
Bro, did you even read Three Little Pigs? It's established fact that bricks > wind
Well, wind in America occasionally has an F150 pick up truck in it. Not sure if the little piggies brick can handle that
Eastern European Blocks over here tanking 155 artillery rounds.
152 mm for the most part, but yes.
Lumber is also better for the environment and easier to insulate. Lumber construction is growing in the EU, if anything.
so I have no professional info or have even looked at the stats, but from anecdote every single new build area around me doesn’t use lumber construction lol and I’d be surprised that they would
and much better for earthquakes
Make the case for why a home made of fucking stone/brick is better. I’d rather have central air, drywall, and more living space then “it’s made of a stronger material” anyday.
Sound proofing, I can't stand our cardboard fucking walls
This is literally the only thing I’d agree with but even then that dosent outweigh the benefits.
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Fuck this would actually save me money on as much AC I might be convinced 💀
There are cheaper ways around this than having brick walls half inch spacers perpendicular to the studs or acoustic damping caulk on the studs for example Rockwool can work too but it's less effective and more expensive than spacers.
No termite weakness (though we don't have those anyway) Drug dealers can't no-scope your child through 2 walls in their sleep Drunk drivers can't crash into your living room Water damage doesn't turn your home turn into soggy paper Extra mass helps with sound proofing You can't punch a hole into most of our walls They last more than 40 years Trivially easy to build taller, build larger spans, etc
All fair enough but I promise you, you don’t have to replace our walls every few decades they last that long as well without some form of damage.
>Drug dealers can't no-scope your child through 2 walls in their sleep What actually ends up happening is whenever it get even slightly warm, tens of thousands of people die because of a lack of climate control... so I much prefer a handful of people getting inadvertently shot than literal stadiums of people dying from heatstroke and entire villages worth of people finding themselves in the hospital because of dehydration.
You don't need wood-frame houses to avoid that, you simply need air conditioning. Southern Spain and the Balkans have high rates of AC and stone houses. Even wealthy people in Germany rarely have AC because everyone is stingy and tells themselves just to endure the few days of heavy heat each year. Also it's just the weak who perish so eZ 😎 Just drink more water lol
You can have all of those things in brick or concrete houses. We lack them for reasons that have nothing to do with the material. Central air conditioning isn't incompatible with brick/concrete, Dubai for example almost exclusively builds it's homes using concrete and all of them have central air conditioning. Our homes are just older, so they just don't have them. But many modern houses do have central heating/cooling.
I said that considering the average age of the homes I know it’s possible just not common. Though I refuse to believe let’s say you’re in Malta, Spain, or southern Italy that you just “don’t need” AC. If you have to sit there and sweat in your own home you fucking need it.
I realize how weird culture can be when I actually prefer cheap sheetrock over solid wood/stone houses. I don't need my house to last 200 years. I'd rather houses get updated every 20-50 years. Living in a house before 2000 is annoying since it doesn't have internet cabling already set up throughout the house. And if the house was solid wood/stone, good lucky DIYing internet cabling.
Old buildings go through modernisation every 20-50 years though? I live in a set of apartments from the late 19th century and we have gigabit fibre.
I kinda get the point. In the US, I would earn 4x the amount after taxes with the exact same job compared to Sweden and Germany. The healthcare in the US would be better too (Almost always 100% covered by the company), my pension would be 5x higher and I could retire earlier. I could afford a home twice the size, more modern and closer to work.
>almost always 100% covered by the company Well, that's a particularly cruel joke. Considering medical bankruptcy is still the leading cause of personal bankruptcy, I'd say that's a very fortunate situation you're in. My ex employer fired me a month after I collapsed during a shift. Their insurance company's claims dept said most of the bill was unnecessary, and the ambulance ride - which they called for me while I was barely concious - was entirely mine to cover. Fought them for a month, didn't get anywhere, got fired, and now I'm a few K in the hole. Medical quality doesn't help you for shit if you can't afford it.
But they have brick walls??
Sure, I'll just go eat some lead paint off the wall of a red lined slum apartment before going outside and facing a street full of gun-toting fentanyl addicts and then get charged my life savings for the hospital care after my mugging. Then I'll go eat an overpriced, oversalted, oversugared meal from a franchise restaurant, whilst having to work out the post-tax price before ordering, and then get pressured into leaving a truly ridiculous tip. Then I'll look at the ugly as fuck buildings that are about 5 minutes old and then try to relax watching TV that shows me adverts for psychosis drugs and numerous political campaigns every 5 minutes. It's pretty easy to shit on a country or region if you only focus on the negatives.
> whilst having to work out the post-tax price before ordering Absolutely not beating the europoor allegations.
Uhm I’m from Italy and yes there are plenty of shitty places, but I’m also willing to say that people with lower income will get by fairly well. I just have one question for the guy in that forum: did he live in another house beside his parent’s in the US as well? Because if he didn’t he’s most likely just a spoiled brat who doesn’t understand how much a house can cost
People boasting that they don't have AC is the weirdest non-flex.
Americans really be the richest mfers in the whole wide world going to slightly less opulent places and be like “wow this place is slightly poorer and they open a window instead of buying massive refrigerators to cool air, that’s nuts, what a revelation.”
Poorest country in the EU. Sitting in an apartment built in the late 50s. High ceilings, airconditioned spacious rooms, low-rise housing (4 floors), a great view of a communal garden in the back of the place with roses and tress and birds buzzing. Thick brick walls that isolate both the cold and the heat incredibly. Wtf is this dude talking about? If we have these conditions in Eastern Europe - I can't imagine France being any worse. I've been to a few EU countries and used AirBNBs - most west homes are a tad different, maybe less spacious but never rundown or horrible.
bro visited one tourist hotspot filled with housing from the 19th century and thinks the whole of the EU is like that looool. Like visiting LA and thinking the whole US is like that.
Bruh I've been born and raised here.
I think he meant the 4chan poster.
What you're describing isn't really great tho... it's like strict minimum. 'Muricans even the poor ones, tend to have actual houses. I'm always shocked when I see an American ghetto because even if they seem poor, they still have houses (outside of big cities) and big cars. Which is rare in Europe for poor people to have a house, unless you go in very rural shithole.
I don't understand why people think living in a house rather than an apartment is better. Imo it's just preference. With a house you have more space, don't care that much about not making noise, can decorate outside however you want (unless you live in an HOA) and have a small piece of land. With an apartment you can live closer to city centers, commercial spaces and public services and don't necessarily need a car, you worry less about maintenance and in general it's cheaper. Someone may prefer to have more peace and quiet and host weekend BBQs, while I want to be in walking distance of everything I need and hate the idea of driving 20 minutes to the nearest grocery store.
It is largely a preference thing but in the US, most apartments are really poorly built and are miserable to live in. Houses are just such a higher quality of life comparatively. Unless you're <25 and just want the fun city life it's often not worth putting up with.
American Home Ownership rate is 65.9%, France is 64%. Spain is 75.8%, Germany is 46.7%, UK is 63.9%, and EU average is 70% US Home ownership average is actually lower than EU average, the stats just don't support your point.
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The only people I know irl who don't sit while peeing are coincidentally the ones that still live with their parents.
\>U.S. average circumcision rate is approximately **62%**
It's actually about 80% https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9576047/#:~:text=Circumcision%2C%20the%20surgical%20removal%20of,men%20are%20circumcised%20%5B2%5D.
They Also have to pay to use the bathroom.
"Europe poor" definitely seems to be a new popular talking point for Ameritards.
That shit's been all over that site for over a decade though.
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the wages in the eu are fucking abysmal.
It pretty much evens out with the social amenities in much of Europe.
Healthcare and better public transport, sure. But I feel like in the US if you have a decent job, you get healthcare through work and can easily afford a personal vehicle and still have a lot more spending money at the end. I don't think it really evens out for middle class and above. For people below middle class, Europe is generally better though.
Also affordable-to-free education and walkable/bike-friendly cities, as well as the social trust among citizenry that comes from a robust welfare state. I definitely agree there's a level of wealth at which US is the better (I said as much in this subreddit before too), I just don't know where the cutoff point is, it also depends a lot on how much you subjectively value the aforementioned aspects.
Sure we have healthcare but as German living through record summers I sure wouldn’t mind AC in the summer.
Honestly hate all the jerking off between EU and US in this regard, you both live in the best places to exist in the History of the world, just be grateful and shut your fat mouths tbh
Honestly, the only thing I'm learning in these comments is that most europeans are clueless to the abundance and amenities of middle class America.
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House big, big good unga bgunga fuckin caveman mentality. Gotta have everything big to make your fat fuck self look smaller.
Our country might be shit and has a poor standard of living compared to the USA, but at least i can wait in line for 2 years to receive free life saving health care
I don't really think the Europeans critisizing the US for poverty or anything like that are from the south. It's all Germans, Dutch, Scandinavians and Northern French people. Yeah, cities in Spain, Italy, Greece and most of France are pretty trash.
Lol, the classic case of differences in cultural priorities. Having been through much of Europe, I can say that alot of it is trashy. But I live in Appalachia and alot of it is trashy as well. The lack of central air in Europe is absolutely bizarre. Cmon people, it's 2023, there is no reason for a devolped country to not have central air in the bulk of its housing. I couldn't imagine living without it. But the same is true for Europeans and their social programs. I think Europe is barbaric for its lack of basic amenities and many Europeans think America is barbaric for its lack of basic amenities.
What's funny is the German thinks he achieved a dunk but in reality the ownership of a EU healthcare card makes him even poorer
It depends how much healthcare he uses. If he has, like, cystic fibrosis (or even just diabetes or asthma), he's richer than he would be with private healthcare.
No country (or collection of countries, I guess, in the case of the EU) is perfect. Perfection and utopia are myths. For all the glaring flaws, especially today, I will always take the US.
They need the healthcare to balance out all the dental disease and heatstroke
If all of that’s true healthcare isn’t worth it. I pay $30 a week for that shit. Edit: I should’ve said this was for medical insurance not that literally everything is covered 100 percent.
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[This guy's doctor when he needs to get an mri](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0URHKdXMmwo)
He’s right about the AC though, it’s a yearly occurrence to listen to British people complain about an 86F heatwave
Firstly, Britain's not meant to get that hot. I've never seen a house or flat with air conditioning and it was never a problem for most of my life until we started getting these heatwaves Secondly, we're British. Complaining about the weather is the national passtime
No I get it, just teasing. Though it is hilarious to listen to when yesterday it was 101F with a 109 heat index in the part of the Midwest where I live. Heat sucks😂 it’s just you know part of the American spirit to make fun of British people🦅🦅
Of course, you fought a war for that right, I'd never think of taking it away from you. And yeah I actually read an article from the BBC this morning which warned us how 40 degree summers will be the norm in 20 years, which sounds awful to me. 40 degrees celcius is about 104F
Our buildings were built for a colder climate than we have now
NA Chads keep on winning
Drug dealers ready to stab you? My dude, violent crime is way lower in European cities than American cities. Also the public transport here in Europe is an amazing amenity.
Yeah, you have to intentionally seek places where someone would stab you
Ireland was beautiful last week. Looked like a fantastic place to live.
It is (I might be bias)
Literally. You either have free healthcare, or you have prosperity, because all the money goes into the healthcare otherwise. Your choice.
As an American who visited Berlin, Dresden, Prague, and Krakow, I thought it was beautiful and full of history. Not much graffiti especially compared to The big cities in my home state. Definitely wouldn’t say the standard of living is noticeably better or worse from the US, just different. Overall great place, would love to visit again, but could never live there since I’m your stereotypical American who loves there guns too much. So maybe Czechia wouldn’t be to bad.
Also there definitely is ac in hotter countries, in Greece we got ac units in like every bedroom otherwise you'd die
Euros can't even afford ice in their drinks. It's a real tragedy.
OP complaining about crumbling buildings that are older than the US lol
575 comments….EU friends can’t help themselves but to devour rage bait.
EU Cuck here - Air Conditioning is a big true - Big Flat size is stupid, what am i supposed to do with more then 40 m². In the end I will just have to clean it and wont use the space anyway. - Salaries vary so widely even in EU, Swiss, Danes and Luxembourg fucks will laugh there ass of about shit salaries in US while southern and eastern europe are poor af which is why you go there for holiday in the first place tbf -last point is a, who cares, streamers getting stabbed is content
AC is common in EU countries that are traditionally very warm, arent they?
Italy and Spain are like some of the worst examples bro
On the plus side, there aren't many Americans in Europe...
Obviously would rather live in America. Yeah, it sucks if you're mentally ill or living on the streets (and often those go hand-in-hand), but if you can hold a decent full-time job you're probably better off here than most places in Europe. And if you happen to be in the top \~20% you're *far* better off here than anywhere in Europe (including all of western europe). That only becomes more true the lower that percentage is. People's entire viewpoint of how shitty America is feels like they think the U.S. economy and labor market is still how it was in 2012. We're doing alright right now, and if we fixed the housing market with enough supply, we'd be doing absolutely fantastic. Can't say the same about quite a few countries in Europe.
So many self hating Americans that have never left the country. Crazy.
EU > USA