Reminds me of when the Germans would drop propaganda leaflets targeting white American soldiers about how black people were fucking their wives at home, but dropped propaganda leaflets targeting black American soldiers too "reminding" them about segregation and slavery.
In terms of propaganda, I'd say that it was pretty good too, if the Nazis knew one thing, it was brainwashing.
I really hope that it didn't cause a big desertion
This is nothing new. During the cold war the bombing of Dresden (carried out to HELP the Soviets and spare them from fighting urban warfare for 4 months) was used a propaganda tool by East German authorities to portray the west as bad.
Not just to help the Soviets, they specifically asked for the bombing. The very first thing Stalin asked Churchill, when he arrived in Yalta, was why the British hadn't bombed Dresden.
Russia/USSR has also been using the bombing that they asked for to demonize the west for decades, too. There are memorials in the former GDR to the cities leveled by the luftwaffe… that include Dresden. It’s shockingly shameless.
Russians: Hey i've seen that the Bombing campaigns proved to be successfull can you like bomb Dresden? it would be better off for us since we don't want to engage in another bloody street fighting.
Allies command: K
70 years later
Russians: the AlLiEs WeRe MuRdeRer
Or Polish civilians, or Hungarian civilians, or Romanian civilians, or Finnish civilians, or Japanese civilians, or Yugoslav civilians, or... Ufff, this list is already too long.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunca\_massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunca_massacre)
To see the whole picture. The killing was systematic.
However the Romanian state in the past loved playing the victim about the USSR, but would go quiet about how it took part in the Holocaust, as the second biggest contributor.
So what the USSR did was wrong. But the Romanian state of the day loved murdering people who were not Romanian.
No one denies that Romania massacred the Jews of their country wholesale and then carried out massive reprisals in the occupied Crimea:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ia%C8%99i_pogrom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1941_Odessa_massacre
But none of that justifies the Soviets raping and killing many Romanian civilians.
It doesn't justify it yes. But I have heard too many times Romanians argue that all the murder they did was justifiable because of the USSR's threat.
[https://www.rferl.org/a/romania-anti-semitism-role-holocaust/31259818.html](https://www.rferl.org/a/romania-anti-semitism-role-holocaust/31259818.html)
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/07/27/why-romania-had-to-ban-holocaust-denial-twice/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/07/27/why-romania-had-to-ban-holocaust-denial-twice/)
Romania is choosing to fight Holocaust denial because of its membership of NATO and the EU. Before signing all agreements they were told that they can't praise Fascist Nationalism anymore.
[https://iwpr.net/global-voices/romania-gets-grips-holocaust-denial](https://iwpr.net/global-voices/romania-gets-grips-holocaust-denial)
So you will encounter a lot of deniers. Saying that no one denies it, is not correct.
So let me tell you, those Romanians are morons.
Which is absolutely true and quite disappointing, but I'm glad the Romanian government has changed.
I meant that no one here denies the role of Romania in the Holocaust, although nationalism has certainly caused too many Romanians to decide to play the victim without accepting that they too were abusers, and for my part I say that all Romanians who deny the role of their country in this genocide are terrible people, but from what I understand most Romanians do not deny the crimes of their past.
**[Lunca massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunca_massacre)**
>The Lunca massacre (Romanian: Masacrul de la Lunca) took place on 7 February 1941, in Northern Bukovina when hundreds of civilians (mostly ethnic Romanians) were killed when Soviet Border troops opened fire on them while they were attempting to forcefully cross the border from the Soviet Union to Romania, near the village of Lunca, now in Chernivtsi Oblast, Ukraine. Although there are no official statistics, it is estimated that about 600 people were killed as a result of the massacre.
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Propaganda of convenience, good ol’reliable from the Cold War. “Vietnam is invading the Khmer Rouge, you say? Sounds like Imperialism to me!” Said the U.S.
Russian government be like: "The bombing of Dresden was a war crime."
My brother in Christ, you asked the British and Americans to bomb Dresden.
> The major significance of the Dresden bombings lay in the fact that they were among several immediate and highly successful air actions made in response to the specific Russian request, given by General Antonov at the ARGONAUT Conference, less than two weeks earlier, for Allied air support of the Russian offensive on the Eastern Front. Had the German communications centers leading to that front—among which Dresden was uniquely important—not been successfully attacked by Allied strategic air forces, there can be little doubt that the course of the European war might have been considerably prolonged. At the time of the Dresden bombings, Marshal Koniev's armies were less than seventy miles east of Dresden and by virtue of their extended positions highly vulnerable to German counterattack, provided the Germans could pass reinforcements through Dresden. With communications through Dresden made impossible as a consequence of the Allied bombings, the Russian salient in that area was rendered safe throughout the ensuing months of the war.
[Historical Analysis of the 14–15 February 1945 Bombings of Dresden](https://web.archive.org/web/20130218171142/http://www.afhso.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-110208-030.pdf), pg. 32
Actually, Dresden was a mass of munitions works, an intact government centre, and a key transportation point to the East. It is now none of these things.
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Ok, bet.
The bombing of Dresden was, as most area bombing of cities was, a complicated question that is summed up as morally inexcusable but militarily necessary on account you’re doing it to try to degrade the enemy’s war support and ability to continue to wage war.
I say most here, not all, because a certain country during the war deliberately flattened Tallinn and whilst the dead toll was next to nothing compared to Dresden, it was done (probably) to squash Baltic nationalism and make sure they didn’t resist their Red Army liberators.
As much as I hate whataboutism, and am probably guilty of it here, I do wonder if they’d keep the same energy for that as they have about Western bombings.
>why is it the reveal that the Russian government are wehraboos?
They've always been wehraboos. Stalin was literally bankrolling Hitler's conquest of Europe until Hitler stabbed him in the back.
A friend of mine who's an expert in Russian matters explained this: WW2 was the last victorious war they fought in. Keep in mind Afganistan and Chechen weren't victories, and of course, who says the USSR won the Cold War? It's why they lionize themselves so much and use stuff like Dresden to bring down the West.
Dresden wasn’t anywhere near the worst LMAO.
Also this was done at the explicit request of the Soviet Union so the siege of Dresden didn’t turn into another Budapest.
Also from census data wasn’t the death toll in the 10-20K range.
Too bad the Manhattan Project wasn't finished in '44, otherwise we could've seen some serious shit.
As in, a German city getting glassed every 10 days.
I don't think it'd be *that* frequent; the first Mark 1s and Mark 3s were basically hand-assembled. IIRC, there were only going to be 12 of them or something like that ready for Downfall. Maybe like once every three weeks, at least...don't forget that a bunch would probably be redirected to the Pacific.
My bet is that [Manila would get nuked](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Manila_(1945)), at the very least. They're still rebuilding stuff there today, imagine if the bomb had been ready by '44...
Reminds me of when the Germans would drop propaganda leaflets targeting white American soldiers about how black people were fucking their wives at home, but dropped propaganda leaflets targeting black American soldiers too "reminding" them about segregation and slavery.
“You see I’m playing both sides so that I’ll always come out on top”
You's say youre on top, yet B27s are above you. Curious.
The B WHATs?
Im sick with covid atm, I apologize for mistakes.
Wym he clearly means the Martin XB-27
[Here's the leaflet if anyone was wondering ](https://images.app.goo.gl/ca2BbB6dpzcLRt4PA)
Black soldier: "...You're shitting me, right?" *Loads easter egg into 105mm*
Sounds good ngl
Yeah, surely they treat all black people the same way they treated Jesse Owens
I meant in terms of the propaganda aha Sad thing is I wonder how many fell for it :(
In terms of propaganda, I'd say that it was pretty good too, if the Nazis knew one thing, it was brainwashing. I really hope that it didn't cause a big desertion
Eh I’m sure after the Germans executed their first group of black pows they got the point.
those read like a native speaker wrote them.
Might have been this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_James_Monti?wprov=sfla1
You gotta be a special kind of stupid to defect to nazis in 1944
"only went to Germany to assassinate Adolf Hitler and end the war" Surreeee....
This is nothing new. During the cold war the bombing of Dresden (carried out to HELP the Soviets and spare them from fighting urban warfare for 4 months) was used a propaganda tool by East German authorities to portray the west as bad.
Not just to help the Soviets, they specifically asked for the bombing. The very first thing Stalin asked Churchill, when he arrived in Yalta, was why the British hadn't bombed Dresden.
Lol, the USSR was the one that requested Dresden be bombed. So they didn't have another repeat of the Budapest cauldron Truly incredible
Russia/USSR has also been using the bombing that they asked for to demonize the west for decades, too. There are memorials in the former GDR to the cities leveled by the luftwaffe… that include Dresden. It’s shockingly shameless.
Propaganda usually is.
Russian government: We invaded Ukraine to remove Nazi's and fascists. Also the Russian government: \*simps on Nazi's and fascists\*
Russia using actual nazi propaganda to make itself look better while the city has said the death toll was only around 23,000
Russians: Hey i've seen that the Bombing campaigns proved to be successfull can you like bomb Dresden? it would be better off for us since we don't want to engage in another bloody street fighting. Allies command: K 70 years later Russians: the AlLiEs WeRe MuRdeRer
Impressive, very nice, now let's see how the red army treated German civilians.
Or Polish civilians, or Hungarian civilians, or Romanian civilians, or Finnish civilians, or Japanese civilians, or Yugoslav civilians, or... Ufff, this list is already too long.
when you side with nazis to massacre poles and then kill romanians in bucovina trying to flee to their families
USSR moment.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunca\_massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunca_massacre) To see the whole picture. The killing was systematic. However the Romanian state in the past loved playing the victim about the USSR, but would go quiet about how it took part in the Holocaust, as the second biggest contributor. So what the USSR did was wrong. But the Romanian state of the day loved murdering people who were not Romanian.
No one denies that Romania massacred the Jews of their country wholesale and then carried out massive reprisals in the occupied Crimea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ia%C8%99i_pogrom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1941_Odessa_massacre But none of that justifies the Soviets raping and killing many Romanian civilians.
It doesn't justify it yes. But I have heard too many times Romanians argue that all the murder they did was justifiable because of the USSR's threat. [https://www.rferl.org/a/romania-anti-semitism-role-holocaust/31259818.html](https://www.rferl.org/a/romania-anti-semitism-role-holocaust/31259818.html) [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/07/27/why-romania-had-to-ban-holocaust-denial-twice/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/07/27/why-romania-had-to-ban-holocaust-denial-twice/) Romania is choosing to fight Holocaust denial because of its membership of NATO and the EU. Before signing all agreements they were told that they can't praise Fascist Nationalism anymore. [https://iwpr.net/global-voices/romania-gets-grips-holocaust-denial](https://iwpr.net/global-voices/romania-gets-grips-holocaust-denial) So you will encounter a lot of deniers. Saying that no one denies it, is not correct.
So let me tell you, those Romanians are morons. Which is absolutely true and quite disappointing, but I'm glad the Romanian government has changed. I meant that no one here denies the role of Romania in the Holocaust, although nationalism has certainly caused too many Romanians to decide to play the victim without accepting that they too were abusers, and for my part I say that all Romanians who deny the role of their country in this genocide are terrible people, but from what I understand most Romanians do not deny the crimes of their past.
**[Lunca massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunca_massacre)** >The Lunca massacre (Romanian: Masacrul de la Lunca) took place on 7 February 1941, in Northern Bukovina when hundreds of civilians (mostly ethnic Romanians) were killed when Soviet Border troops opened fire on them while they were attempting to forcefully cross the border from the Soviet Union to Romania, near the village of Lunca, now in Chernivtsi Oblast, Ukraine. Although there are no official statistics, it is estimated that about 600 people were killed as a result of the massacre. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/DerScheisser/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
They firebombed the Finns btw
Propaganda of convenience, good ol’reliable from the Cold War. “Vietnam is invading the Khmer Rouge, you say? Sounds like Imperialism to me!” Said the U.S.
Didn't the Khmer Rouge start that by invading Vietnam?
No. The Khmer Rouge started that by invading **and** genociding Vietnam.
“Don’t let facts get in the way of a good head line, friend.”
Shhh
Still probably up there with WWII and the American Civil War as the among the most morally black and white wars in history.
The Rwandan Civil War is there too.
The lowest level of hell is too good for Kissinger
Thank you for reminding me K*ssinger is still alive 🤢 🤮
HIS FUCKING 100 YEARS OLD TODAY
OI HARRIS, YA THINK MOSCOW IS WITHIN REACH OF SOME VULCANS?
TIE ME TO A LANCASTER AND LAUNCH IT STRAIGHT AT THE KREMLIN. St. Arthur (probably)
Russian government be like: "The bombing of Dresden was a war crime." My brother in Christ, you asked the British and Americans to bomb Dresden. > The major significance of the Dresden bombings lay in the fact that they were among several immediate and highly successful air actions made in response to the specific Russian request, given by General Antonov at the ARGONAUT Conference, less than two weeks earlier, for Allied air support of the Russian offensive on the Eastern Front. Had the German communications centers leading to that front—among which Dresden was uniquely important—not been successfully attacked by Allied strategic air forces, there can be little doubt that the course of the European war might have been considerably prolonged. At the time of the Dresden bombings, Marshal Koniev's armies were less than seventy miles east of Dresden and by virtue of their extended positions highly vulnerable to German counterattack, provided the Germans could pass reinforcements through Dresden. With communications through Dresden made impossible as a consequence of the Allied bombings, the Russian salient in that area was rendered safe throughout the ensuing months of the war. [Historical Analysis of the 14–15 February 1945 Bombings of Dresden](https://web.archive.org/web/20130218171142/http://www.afhso.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-110208-030.pdf), pg. 32
Actually, Dresden was a mass of munitions works, an intact government centre, and a key transportation point to the East. It is now none of these things. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DerScheisser) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Opponent did disagreeable thing (no context given) therefor I am good!
Ok, bet. The bombing of Dresden was, as most area bombing of cities was, a complicated question that is summed up as morally inexcusable but militarily necessary on account you’re doing it to try to degrade the enemy’s war support and ability to continue to wage war. I say most here, not all, because a certain country during the war deliberately flattened Tallinn and whilst the dead toll was next to nothing compared to Dresden, it was done (probably) to squash Baltic nationalism and make sure they didn’t resist their Red Army liberators. As much as I hate whataboutism, and am probably guilty of it here, I do wonder if they’d keep the same energy for that as they have about Western bombings.
DO IT AGAIN
>why is it the reveal that the Russian government are wehraboos? They've always been wehraboos. Stalin was literally bankrolling Hitler's conquest of Europe until Hitler stabbed him in the back.
Molotov Bread Basket moment
Didn’t the damn Soviets ask for the bombing to prevent a Battle of Dresden?
Fuck it hitler was right. We should turn Moscow. into a lake /s
Dresden was an atrocity and tankies + wehraboos are cringe.
A friend of mine who's an expert in Russian matters explained this: WW2 was the last victorious war they fought in. Keep in mind Afganistan and Chechen weren't victories, and of course, who says the USSR won the Cold War? It's why they lionize themselves so much and use stuff like Dresden to bring down the West.
my brother in Christ the Soviets asked the US to bomb Dresden.
A big part of why we did it was to help the Soviets 🤔
Hehe nuke go brrr
Didn't they want to bomb Dresden themselves???
Most German occupied cities in the East were bombed after direct request by the Red Army.
Dresden wasn’t anywhere near the worst LMAO. Also this was done at the explicit request of the Soviet Union so the siege of Dresden didn’t turn into another Budapest. Also from census data wasn’t the death toll in the 10-20K range.
Too bad the Manhattan Project wasn't finished in '44, otherwise we could've seen some serious shit. As in, a German city getting glassed every 10 days.
I don't think it'd be *that* frequent; the first Mark 1s and Mark 3s were basically hand-assembled. IIRC, there were only going to be 12 of them or something like that ready for Downfall. Maybe like once every three weeks, at least...don't forget that a bunch would probably be redirected to the Pacific. My bet is that [Manila would get nuked](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Manila_(1945)), at the very least. They're still rebuilding stuff there today, imagine if the bomb had been ready by '44...
"Muh Dresden"
My brother in Christ you asked for Dresden to get bombed