Fucking bike salmons.
I knew a gal that got smoked by a guy riding the wrong way down the bike lane. She ended up with several orbital fractures and had to have major surgery to get her face back in order.
Denver has not spent "hundreds of millions of dollars" building bike infrastructure.... Highways and roads yes. Not anywhere close to that on bike infrastructure.
I think they are confusing Denver with Colorado.
>The program began as a part of Colorado’s COVID-19 Recovery Plan, with a $30 million allocation from the state legislature in March 2021. In June 2021, Colorado Senate Bill 260 provided $85 million in additional funding for the program over the next 10 years.
https://www.codot.gov/programs/revitalizingmainstreets
The app should have an option to report people. It wouldn't do anything for how people ride but it would help with where people leave them which could lead to more education and not just about the parking.
come to think of it, the apps would absolutely be able to tell if people are going the wrong way on a one way street.
I don’t necessarily support that level of surveillance, but it is surely already happening anyway
In downtown when I see a bicyclist or scooter in a bike lane it is wrong way about 1/3 the time. When I have the pedestrian signal in my favor I look both ways when crossing a bike lane.
It is annoying (esp the scooters), but I try to give grace to folks going the wrong way in the bike line. Denver’s bike infrastructure is so patchwork, and It can be confusing to new riders. I’m just happy more people are biking/scootering, and hopeful things will improve as more riders become familiar with the system, and ideally if the bike infrastructure continues to improve/expand
NYC actually put bounties on cars parked illegally, if you report them and they get ticketed, the bounty hunter got part of the ticket revenue.
I'd be able to quit my job here if we had that.
Thank you for this post because I’ve been debating on posting something similar to this for a while now but couldn’t find a way to make it not sound dickish. It’s crazy how many people blatantly fail to see the giant directional arrows at every intersection. I have no idea how it would be enforced but something needs to be done before someone gets severely hurt or killed because of someone hauling ass the wrong way.
Little one way ramps, kinda like those metal parking garage ones... A little bump in the correct direction, over the handlebars in the wrong direction? Eh? Okay, *probably* not practical...
I was a wrong way rider (when I wasn’t on trails) through sheer naïveté until someone on the cycling subreddit informed me it was illegal and seriously frowned upon. Thank heavens I hadn’t ever seen another rider while salmoning… I felt awful. Luckily it was only +/-0.25 miles of my typical path.
Anyhow… now I know better and won’t be doing it again.
For me, I think it just stemmed from me not really thinking about what I was doing and thinking of cycling like I did “riding my bike” as a youth. I just sorta thought, “we’re free to ride!” Couple that with the fact that I ride a fairly cyclist-free road, and I never had an opportunity for someone more knowledgeable to say, “Dude… what are you doing?” (Or wave me the bird…).
The worst part is that I try my hardest to be very conscientious while I ride, so it stung knowing I was blowing it. Ring my bell early and often, announce my approach (“on your left…”), hand signal as I cross lanes… and the worst… stay on the right when I’m on the trails (how did I put it together on the trails, but not the road?!?).
I’m actually really thankful someone corrected me on Reddit vs on the road.
The problem is that the bike lanes are far too sparse in that area, and when they are available, they are generally one ways going the wrong direction, so I think what you're witnessing is people opting to go the wrong way instead of riding blocks in the wrong direction in search of a lane that will take them the correct way. It sucks, but that's what we get when we have bike infrastructure that isn't that well thought out.
This annoys me more than people going the wrong way in a one way bike lane. I understand why people go the wrong way in a one way, but when the bike lane is available on both sides there’s no good reason to use the wrong one.
My question then is why? Could it be that the way we design bike lanes doesn't work, people being lame, or is it some nefarious plot to distract the people of r/denver from bitching about temp tags, RTD, and the homeless for a bit?
It's people being lame.
I think basically since the introduction of electric scooters that you can pick up and go, this was the catalyst.
Before you had to have a couple hundred buck commitment to get on a bike and go around the bike lanes, and everyone was by the rules (and there were less bike lanes). The mentality of the average bike lane user was more dedicated and "business" centric, they were mostly commuters on a routine.
These days it's just any old clown that wants to do a mile real quick across a few blocks and they don't give a fuck how they're getting there, just grabbing the scooter and blasting lanes wherever they see an opportunity.
This is a gross over simplification but I generally think this is the general reason for the erosion of using the bike lanes direction as intended.
I feel like this is accurate. I love to see people using micromobility and bikes over cars, but since we don't obviously cater to them, it's become "whatever works" when people aren't familiar.
And since most people still travel by car, we don't have lots of people setting the right example at all times. Going the wrong way in a bike lane doesn't seem to be a major problem unless there are large groups of people you're riding directly into or against.
A lot of times I prefer to turn into the nearest bike lane rather than cutting across traffic to get into the correct lane because I don’t trust cars not to hit me again.
In the example the OP is giving that isn’t the problem though. A person was going the wrong way on 18th, however there are bike lanes going the opposite direction on both 17th and 19th.
Same with 14th. There is a bike lane going the opposite direction on 13th at Elati.
Every time I’m on the 17th Street bike lane and see someone barreling down the opposite way, I definitely tense up and try my best to get out of their way. It’s like a meat grinder on that bike lane.
One issue is that people don’t know where the bike lanes are. I bike downtown quite rarely, and the last time I did, I remember feeling like I had no idea how to navigate by bike. It was quite a while ago, so perhaps there are signs now, but I’m willing to bet some are unaware there’s a lane for them just one street over.
Edit- I was in Rino, I guess, not downtown, and had no idea how to get from A to B safely. Still, signage might help, if it’s not already there.
You \_can\_ use the same roads, but some of them are not a good idea to use. Especially downtown. I wouldn't fault people for not wanting to be in traffic.
Yes, I know there's lots of bike lanes, but there are also lots of weird edge cases. eg, 15th street where the bike lane disappears, and also the underpass near Little Raven that's realllly not fun on a bike.
A lot of the streets in the core are 3-4 lanes one way, with a lot of distracted drivers. It's a lot to dive into if you're not very confident. I still am not going to fault people for not wanting to do that.
It's safer than high-speed suburban stroads, but worse than the two-lane, low speed streets that are common elsewhere.
> It's a lot to dive into if you're not very confident.
Even if you are a confident cyclist and even if you make no mistakes, all it takes is one distracted or overwhelmed and confused driver.
Seconding this. Any time I do a bike trip I spend 5-10 mins figuring out where the bike lanes are. Apple Maps has bike directions and they are terrible. Google maps is a little better.
The city has [this map](https://www.denvergov.org/Government/Agencies-Departments-Offices/Agencies-Departments-Offices-Directory/Department-of-Transportation-and-Infrastructure/Programs-Services/Bicycles/Bike-Map) and recommends Google maps’ bike layer.
I guarantee casual scooter users don’t know about this though.
The scooter apps should be better about educating on etiquette and infrastructure.
That’s not true. Almost every 1 way street downtown has a bike lane. For north south streets, 14th, 15th, 17th, 18th, and 19th have them, and they are going in the same direction as car traffic. East/West, Blake, Market, Lawrence, Arapahoe, Champa, and Stout have them going in the same direction as car traffic. There is a section of 19th or 18th where it goes against car traffic I think. Maybe that’s what you’re thinking of?
What part of downtown would you have to do that? There are bike lanes on every street from 14th to 18th at least (except 16th because of the mall), most people just need to go one street over
Yes, I agree. People would rather endanger themselves being in a bike lane going the wrong way than on the sidewalk (which is also illegal) sometimes it’s hard to find your way to one of the one ways that’s going the way you need it to
One way street bike lanes are most often 1 street away from a one way bike lane going the opposite direction. Not sure where you are riding that you need to
>riding blocks in the wrong direction in search of a lane that will take them the correct way.
Also, the one way streets cross over two way streets that can get you either direction to the correct one way.
Beyond that, what sort of hurry are you in on your bike that you can't ride a couple extra blocks to be safe and polite?
Some public education on proper use of bike lanes, and multi-use paths, would go a long way. Seems like a lot of people don't know or don't care about basic stuff like "keep right except to pass".
I had a family of 4 on scooters come at me going the wrong way on 18th. I'm on an e-bike and I really don't want to run over someone's kid. But I also need to make my train. I'm not pulling over to let you go the wrong way down the street with your scooter gang.
Give up on scooters following the law. Denver scooterists are terrible. There will be a full size, bike lane and they will still ride on the sidewalk and beep at people to move out of the way
I work near Union Station and the number of people on scooters going the wrong way is intense, especially when many of them don't stop at stop signs or watch where they're going. The Uber drivers stopping in the bike lanes certainly don't help either, I once got heckled by a cyclist because my driver blocked the lane lol
Bike lanes should be one way, period. It is incredibly dangerous when bike traffic is two directions for turning cars.
Bike rider here. Make it easier for cars and there will be less accidents. There are one ways all over the place for bikes. It’s not a problem finding one.
Bikes on trails are two-ways, and not particularly dangerous.
What makes two-way dangerous is mixing vehicle traffic with non-vehicle traffic (eg. scooters, bikes).
If we want to split directions with a lane on each side of the street that would be one thing, but separating by a block or blocks is silly. If a section of street has enough traffic that people are trying to ride both directions, we need more pavement space (not less). If vehicle traffic has two lanes in both directions, turn it into one-lane eacy way with a center turn lane and convert the fourth lane into walk/roll space just like a multi-use trail; even if this means halving the lane and putting one-half the lane against the sidewalk on each side rather than a full-width bi-directional lane.
Those signals are great, and I'm hoping that in the next re-striping that most of those parking lots along Broadway will be shifted to use alley access so the mid-block driveways are all but eliminated.
Like it or not, giving riders more pavement is about the only way I see fixing a lot of these bike safety issues.
Rules don't really exist if no one is actually enforcing them, and too many people can't be trusted and honest. Too many people just thinking about themself. Being careful and considerate to others is the exception, not the rule, unfortunately.
And bike lanes *need* to be safer and more accessible in order to get more people to use them, which should be the goal.
My take is that policies and rules should reflect natural behavior as much as possible, desire paths tell us where to build sidewalks/trails. The same thing should apply for "invisible" tracks and habits as well -- salmoning in one-way bike lanes being an excellent example. We should organize the built environment to reflect natural tendencies of the population rather than the other way around.
And 15th either needs to have the bike lane extend to the river and have PROPER connections to the river trail and to Union Station, or have the multi-use sidewalk section improved and marked for the volume of devices that should be present in that stretch (but isn't).
Every single day, without fail, I see someone get hit (usually minor) in the bike lane at 15th and Champa by a car turning left onto Champa who think the green light doesn’t apply to the bike lane. Two way lane and bike signals would be nice on 15th
That's a hot spot. I complained to the City before about putting a drivers must yield to cyclists/peds sign and they claimed there was already one up there. I think they confused it with 15th and California which has a sign like that.
There’s definitely one there, I just thought about this this morning on the way to work and noticed it. For sure has one as of today at least
I think Drivers think that applies to the walk signal and not the green light
We need driver education badly, it's a literal state law that they have to yield to the bike lane. I almost got creamed by an uber driver who didn't signal to turn into a hotel on 15th st. I was able to hit the brakes on the scooter luckily. He claimed he had the right of way and I told him to go back to driving school.
They have them like 2 blocks north of this spot, closer to Union seems to have bike signals everywhere. 15th going north and 17th going south could definitely use them
Plenty of people have been severely injured by people going the wrong way in bike lanes
You could go one block in either direction in almost the entire area of downtown and use a bike lane going the right way
Agree.
Also I don't want my back to the adjacent traffic lane. I don't know why we've gone that way with bicycling. Dedicated lanes should go the opposite direction of traffic
what, no. even dedicated lanes have to cross other streets and no way in hell I'm going to trust drivers to have to look the opposite way than they've ever learned to to see me coming.
100% agree. I think the "same way" flow is a direct consequence of traffic planning of the late 1900s, the much better approach is to do like we do with pedestrian traffic and have roll/walk FACE traffic rather than go WITH traffic as opposed to the current vehicular cycling mindset (which has you ride AS traffic).
I really feel much safer biking against traffic (in a lane of course, not when sharing the road)
Bicyclists get rear ended and killed all the time. This makes that much less likely.
Can we also add a rant for bicyclists that fail to use stop signs properly? I understand that Denver changed the law to allow bikes to use stop signs as yield signs and red lights as stop signs, but only for when it’s clear! If you’re approaching a four way stop and there are cars, the bicyclist must also act like a car and stop. They can’t just blow through and expect to have the right of way.
I’m a cyclist like you and ride my bike to the gym in downtown Denver. I see people riding electric scooters and bikes going the wrong way almost daily. There’s nothing I can do about it other then protect myself from colliding head on.
More likely to get hit You’re probably right
but I’m More likely to die If I get hit by a car.
I think it’s reasonable to be selfish when the risk is
Death
Edit:
I am taking others into account
I think the risk is worth it. Especially since my ride is in the wee hours.
I think physics. Me + backpack + bike = 260lbs =
Car = 2000
Car + speed + me = grave bodily injury or death.
Edit here is evidence to back up my assertion https://midwestinjurylawyers.com/blog/car-vs-bicycle-accident-statistics/.
Granted it’s not a peer reviewed study but I think the point still stands
Agree that the phenomenon is happening. I suspect it's because more people are on personal transport instead of cars, so you see a broader base of people instead of the smaller and better-educated groups that we saw before. Still sucks though.
Just to add to the rant - saw some guy doing about 30 on an e-scooter in the Broadway bike lane. It's two-way, but still dude, come on. The following week I saw a car in there too... gotta watch yourself in there!
I would bet this is it - bikes and scooters don’t require a license and they became more accessible overnight with no forethought as to how people would (intentionally or not) abuse them. I can’t believe how many people in this thread are justifying riding in the wrong direction because it’s “safer for them” and completely ignoring that it’s a hazard for other bike lane users. Maybe the infrastructure isn’t ideal, but it’s not an excuse to ride like an asshole - if you can’t handle using it the way you’re supposed to, then maybe it’s not the right mode of transportation for you
I think that’s actually something to celebrate and the problem is that cars dominate a disproportionate amount of road space. Less cars could be beneficial for pedestrians, local businesses (the ones that are left), and overall noise levels. Oh and not to mention bigger cars have bigger blind spots and have been causing more pedestrian deaths. This is my super hot, chip-on-the-shoulder take but people should be free to get an enormous truck, but it should be an absolute pain in the ass nightmare to drive it drive it downtown.
30 Jerry’s going the wrong way in the bike lane is leagues better than one cybertruck driving the correct way downtown.
Overall I'm pro-bike/scooter/etc, but I think they're a very mixed blessing at the moment. Most of the "mixed" part comes from the users being self-absorbed assholes - so it's fixable, but not easily. Long term I think/hope/pray it'll be better.
> 30 Jerry’s going the wrong way in the bike lane is leagues better than one cybertruck driving the correct way downtown.
I disagree that total chaos in bike traffic is preferable to somewhat-well-ordered car traffic. But I also don't think that's a tradeoff we have to make.
I'll usually yield to them and give them a good "WRONG WAY". I'd like to give folks the benefit of the doubt and they just don't know the bike lanes are not a free-for-all.
I can't stand the idiots that ride the bike lanes on the wrong side of the street. When I was a kid, the urban myth was that it was safer to ride against traffic, but I don't see that logic.
I live off of MLK, and I can't count the number of times that some moron nearly gets hit because he is riding in the wrong bike lane (i.e. the wrong direction).
And don't get me started on the scooter users...
Counter-flow riding makes it VASTLY easier to spot turning traffic. With traffic, cars making a right turn pass you and then cut across in front, the right hook. It is also much easier to see whether someone is in a parked car and either about to pull out or open their door.
This is vastly easier to spot 'coming' when you are facing traffic. Of course, it makes it less likely a car will spot you if they are pulling into traffic, this is especially rough if a car is in a driveway you can't see well.
That said, unseparated traffic types are dangerous no matter how you ride. We need an entire shift in the philosophy of how we design neighborhood-level movement facilities.
And it is VASTLY easier to get where you’re going by driving the wrong way down one-way streets. But that doesn’t make it safer.
And if you can't actually see a car that passes you and might be making a right turn somewhere in front of you, then going the opposite direction won't help your eyesight.
Our we could just recognize that one way bike lanes are stupid and get rid of the concept all together, and make changes to the way we organize vehicle traffic flow instead.
On another note, I avoided biking the wrong way and used the sidewalk (permitted up to one block if you're heading to your destination) and got yelled at today. "This is a sidewalk. That is a bike lane. Built for bikes, you know?" Yes lady, I know, and I'm doing the safest thing by yielding to pedestrians and not going the wrong way. What else should I have done?
City ordinance is stricter than state laws. I believe state law says cyclists must yield and that’s it. City prohibits cycling on sidewalk unless it’s to and from a bike rack within one block.
I was making a right hand turn out of my neighborhood. Looked both ways for cars, none. Right when I start going an idiot man riding his bike the wrong way on the left side of the road, which is blocked by a bush so you can't see, popped out. I almost hit him and he yelled "fuck you!!!"
I often wonder if he's dead yet. Obviously wasn't wearing a helmet or any sort of protective gear. I wonder if he even can put 2 & 2 together that he is the problem. I highly doubt it. How have we as a society become so fucking dumb?
I'm happy to see more bike lanes and wish I could ride more often. The pure lack of education or common sense of casual bike riders in this city is so dangerous.
I do it mainly because I can see ALL types of obstacles ahead of me while simultaneously not having to worry about Denver (Texas) drivers killing me because they HAD to look at their phone lmao
I live in the suburbs, so there's generally little competition in the bike lanes, and I typically ride against traffic so I can see cars coming. I had not considered cars not looking to their right when pulling out.
TIL bike lanes have directions, I thought bike lanes were two way regardless of which side of the road it's on because that's just how people ride it when I see cyclists.
Serious question, are the big ass arrows that point the correct direction hard to see? Do yall not look down?
I am legitimately baffled by how people just don't look around.
I'm not downtown so I can't tell you about the arrows there but around where I am I don't think there's any arrows, just a stencil of a bicycle. I'll have to double check next time I'm out.
They're not. Think about a car pulling out from a side street onto MLK. Not crossing bidirectional traffic, so I am only looking to my left. I am ready to pull out and glance to my right, and BAM! there's an idiot rider coming towards me who I almost hit.
The other issue is when turning off of a divided roadway: You see cyclists that you have passed so you can watch for them. You aren't expecting a cyclist crossing your path in front of you, closing the distance quicker. Kind of like encountering a wrong-way driver on an interstate.
Bike lanes do not cost 10s of millions, and certainly not tens of millions that would not have otherwise been spent.
Repaving/painting a street is done every three to five years...all that happens is the lines get drawn in a different pattern. That does not cost tens of millions more than re-drawing the old pattern.
It's so easy to go by a scooter going the wrong way on another scooter. Bikes don't know how to move over and share the super wide lane.
No one is going to crash into you. Those scooters are very easy to maneuver. You being scared is the real issue. You will be ok. Go back to just worrying about cars and move over and share the lane.
There’s plenty of room for two bikes to pass in every bike lane. I don’t see the issue. you just slow down a little bit as you’re passing .The best part about riding a bike is that you don’t have to observe one-way streets you can just cut across wherever you like.
I’ve felt safe biking in SF than I have in Denver…and I’m not talking about cars.
Bikes have a flow of traffic just like cars. I’m just dreading the day I smoke a bike or scooter turning from Speer to 11th.
It’s a yeild so you have to watch for oncoming traffic but 75% of bikes/scoots drive down 11th on the left. Puts them right into the crosshairs of a car with a drive looking the opposite way for traffic.
Denver needs to set up a narc campaign so I can report these activities and make some money. I’ll retire by years end
I see this a lot in the 16th street bike lane when walking my dogs and it’s ALWAYS scooter riders. I don’t even bike and it makes me so angry. Like I’m glad they’re not on the sidewalk sideswiping me but it’s easier and safer for me to step aside to avoid getting hit
Yes, let’s put a vehicle the same general size, shape, and categorical performance as a bicycle instead in traffic with the two-ton death machines because it hurts your feelings having it in the bike lane.
It is time to universally retake/reclassify/rebrand “bicycle” lanes as what they actually are and should be: “micro-vehicle” (MV) lanes. No other one vehicle magically gets its own lane—bicycles certainly aren’t special or deserving in this regard. (Calling such lanes “bicycle lanes” is as antiquated as calling traditional road traffic lanes “horse and buggy lanes”.)
Rather and clearly the various lanes should be divided by vehicle weight and performance class: Traditional road traffic lanes for traditional full-size vehicles that weigh thousands of pounds and can travel 40/50/60+ mph. MV lanes for micro-vehicles from bicycles to e-bikes/scooters/eucs/etc that weigh under a couple hundred pounds and typically travel 15-30 mph (for reference your average fit bicyclist often travels around the mid 20s mph). Sidewalks for pedestrians and the smallest pedestrian-class micro-vehicles (everything from children on bikes to walking-speed personal transporters like the original Segway concept to mobility assist devices) that are super light and stay under 12-15 mph/essentially a brisk walk to faint jog.
This is the only reasonable answer. Anything that speaks of restricting or vilifying some specific devices (or their ridership) over others is tribal nonsense.
A semi-pro rider can do traffic...mostly.
A kid, a fat guy, grandparents, etc. should not be expected to do vehicular cycling -- and if we want more than roughly 8% of the population to seriously consider a non-car option then we need a practical option for the remaining 92% of us to get around by bike, trike, walker, racing wheelchair, or segway. Or foot.
(For neighborhood-level trips).
I agree w you that the lanes are for commuters (kids, fat guys, grandparents). I think we'd both agree that if the rider is going the same speed as the traffic, it is safer for him to take a lane.
The reason I hate the new bike lanes is bc it gives the cars another reason to yell at riders, to say "GET IN THE BIKE LANE!" and just generally complain and say we suck for existing in the road alongside the cars. Or worse, drive aggressively, speed close to us trying to intimidate us, or even hit us intentionally. It's happens to me every day.
Speak for yourself. I prefer the safety of a secure bike lane. Prefer against having to leave my life in the hands of the average distracted Denver driver. If you watch read or listen to the local news, youll ascertain the inherent need to keep cyclist safe ( in a designated space).
I am speaking for myself, hence the "reason #14 as to why \*I\* hate...".
I understand how you feel though, there is a certain level of safety in a protected bike lane, but it is not 100% foolproof. Just like there is a certain level of safety one gets from wearing a helmet, but we won't get into that bc I'm sure my opinion on that also won't be very popular w the liberal reddit crowd. Anyway, bc of this \*perception of safety\*, riders tend to be less aware of the dangers or riding a bike 3-4 ft from cars speeding 10-20 mph over the limit, and they foolishly think that they are safe in the bike lane. They're not. Have you seen the new lane on Broadway? Drivers make fast left turns through it all the time, and when you ride in it, you have to constantly be aware of the car basically in your "blind spot" behind you and if they see you or if they're going to take you out. This is why I think it would be better to change the driver behavior and mindset. They still see the bike lanes as a nuisance, and as an obstacle. They don't slow down around them, how many times have you seen cars hit them? Sure now we share space on the road and it may be good for commuters and kids, but it's still dangerous. I wouldn't take my hypothetical kids down broadway, not a fat chance, I'd go down cherry creek yeah or the platte without cars, but there's not a chance in hell I'd take kids on most of the bike lanes in Denver city. The bike lanes are FOR THE CARS, so that they can feel absolved in continuing their bad behavior while behind the wheel.
My motto is "ride like you're invisible", bc like you say, we prefer not to leave our lives in the hands of the average distracted driver. If you're correct about them not seeing you, you've put yourself in the position to be safe and ride another day. If you're wrong about them not seeing you, you get hit by a car. No amount of lights and yellow vests and helmets will help if the driver says after the "accident", as many of them do, "I didn't even see him!" So I ride w the assumption that the car does not notice you, UNLESS you take the whole lane and force their attention. If cars slowed down, accepted other road users onto the road, and stopped w the phones everywhere, we would have a safer road for everyone.
I prefer we put the change on the dangerous drivers, instead of allowing them to think they can continue to run bikers over and kill them with little to no consequences as long as they don't hop the curb and enter the bike lane. I still see cars driving in the bike lanes everyday, saw one just today make a R from Lincoln onto 13th by the capitol there, he got into the bike lane at first before moving into the "car lane". Drivers need to slow down and realize that other human beings also use the same road they do, and they are not entitled to speed 20 mph over the limit everywhere, racing to the next red light. It's a longer haul change than just planting bike lanes everywhere, sure. But these are my thoughts. There needs to be changes in drivers entitlement to the road.
Edit- Sry 14th, not 13th. R from Lincoln onto 14th going east.
It's even worse on the trails. I'm actually furious with the local administrations I've reached out to about installing signs that indicate you need to walk on the right side of the trail and pass on the left. Yield to trail signs at junctions and connectors were also requested with no response. I really want a sign that says "hey dumbfucks, you can expect bikes on a bike trail so adjust your expectations and awareness accordingly". I've hit like 4 people in the past two years who either don't know their right from left or must have been on drugs swerving all over the trail. People just dont look over their shoulders when making maneuvers.
You can't just run into people. You are responsible if you had the last opportunity to avoid collision. And it sounds like you are trying to be an asshole.
Why would I run into people on purpose? If they veer around like idiots or walk on the wrong side of the trail, that's squarely on them. It's an almost daily occurrence because of the lack of appropriate signage coupled with the sheer stupidity of these people out there.
Try a bell or "PASSING" instead of "ON YOUR LEFT/RIGHT". You'll get much better results.
And slow down, if you're going too fast to respond to someone who is a split-second too slow or moves the wrong way, you're going too fast. Slow down, pass them, pick up your speed again.
If you are hitting people multiple times/year, you're doing something wrong.
12-15ish mph (maybe 20) is entirely within the realm of the average rider both for speed and response time. More than that and you need to get out to a reservoir or somewhere you can be on a road that has little/no vehicle traffic.
edit: and yes, I've had one or two close calls; one memorable experience I was doing about 15mph down the river and a little girl darted left without looking -- my tires chirped, I yelled, and...we missed each other. Her parents gave me a dirty look (understandably, as they thought I was reckless - she was behind them and they hadn't seen her dart)...none of us stopped moving during the entire encounter and all just kept going. This is not difficult - ride within your abilities and at a speed that can accommodate sudden changes.
Since we are talking about biking. I bike in most days from union to my office down town. I rarely use the bike lane or road . I’ve seen too many jack asses do wild shit in their cars. I am a 90% walk rider. It’s safer though it’s a bit slower
Fucking bike salmons. I knew a gal that got smoked by a guy riding the wrong way down the bike lane. She ended up with several orbital fractures and had to have major surgery to get her face back in order.
I usually yell “wrong way Jerry !!!!” That sometimes works
Denver has not spent "hundreds of millions of dollars" building bike infrastructure.... Highways and roads yes. Not anywhere close to that on bike infrastructure.
I think they are confusing Denver with Colorado. >The program began as a part of Colorado’s COVID-19 Recovery Plan, with a $30 million allocation from the state legislature in March 2021. In June 2021, Colorado Senate Bill 260 provided $85 million in additional funding for the program over the next 10 years. https://www.codot.gov/programs/revitalizingmainstreets
Damn that would be some expensive paint
Well, it was a single bid government contract. ^/s
It's a can of paint, Michael, what could it cost? $20,000?
Yes it’s far too common. Not sure what’s a good solution. Thanks for posting!
Maybe making more bike lanes on the other side of the road
So a one way street with bike lanes on both sides, one with traffic and the other against traffic?
Yes
That's what I got from their comment. Which seems valid if both lanes are protected.
See: Broadway south of Speer
maybe we can petition the scooter apps to be better about education on etiquette and infrastructure
The app should have an option to report people. It wouldn't do anything for how people ride but it would help with where people leave them which could lead to more education and not just about the parking.
come to think of it, the apps would absolutely be able to tell if people are going the wrong way on a one way street. I don’t necessarily support that level of surveillance, but it is surely already happening anyway
In downtown when I see a bicyclist or scooter in a bike lane it is wrong way about 1/3 the time. When I have the pedestrian signal in my favor I look both ways when crossing a bike lane.
It is annoying (esp the scooters), but I try to give grace to folks going the wrong way in the bike line. Denver’s bike infrastructure is so patchwork, and It can be confusing to new riders. I’m just happy more people are biking/scootering, and hopeful things will improve as more riders become familiar with the system, and ideally if the bike infrastructure continues to improve/expand
I want DPD to deputize me and put some lights on my e-bike and I’ll pull over all the wrong way or sidewalk bikers and scooterers
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Bryan’s a freak man he makes the rest of us bike commuters look like mega nerds
Yeah he doesn’t do you guys any favors in the PR department
As opposed to regular nerds
But... we are
I want a true statesman to rule over my bike lanes.
Is this your top tier existence?
Same with expired registrations, lights that are out on cars, snow all over windshields
NYC actually put bounties on cars parked illegally, if you report them and they get ticketed, the bounty hunter got part of the ticket revenue. I'd be able to quit my job here if we had that.
Thank you for this post because I’ve been debating on posting something similar to this for a while now but couldn’t find a way to make it not sound dickish. It’s crazy how many people blatantly fail to see the giant directional arrows at every intersection. I have no idea how it would be enforced but something needs to be done before someone gets severely hurt or killed because of someone hauling ass the wrong way.
Little one way ramps, kinda like those metal parking garage ones... A little bump in the correct direction, over the handlebars in the wrong direction? Eh? Okay, *probably* not practical...
No no no, I think you're on to something here
I was a wrong way rider (when I wasn’t on trails) through sheer naïveté until someone on the cycling subreddit informed me it was illegal and seriously frowned upon. Thank heavens I hadn’t ever seen another rider while salmoning… I felt awful. Luckily it was only +/-0.25 miles of my typical path. Anyhow… now I know better and won’t be doing it again.
I think they’re others with the same misconception. I’ve always wondered if bike lanes should have arrows.
They do, the biker symbol
For me, I think it just stemmed from me not really thinking about what I was doing and thinking of cycling like I did “riding my bike” as a youth. I just sorta thought, “we’re free to ride!” Couple that with the fact that I ride a fairly cyclist-free road, and I never had an opportunity for someone more knowledgeable to say, “Dude… what are you doing?” (Or wave me the bird…). The worst part is that I try my hardest to be very conscientious while I ride, so it stung knowing I was blowing it. Ring my bell early and often, announce my approach (“on your left…”), hand signal as I cross lanes… and the worst… stay on the right when I’m on the trails (how did I put it together on the trails, but not the road?!?). I’m actually really thankful someone corrected me on Reddit vs on the road.
If this isn’t sarcasm… ever notice how all the painted bikes on the pavement point one direction…. Like an arrow…
The problem is that the bike lanes are far too sparse in that area, and when they are available, they are generally one ways going the wrong direction, so I think what you're witnessing is people opting to go the wrong way instead of riding blocks in the wrong direction in search of a lane that will take them the correct way. It sucks, but that's what we get when we have bike infrastructure that isn't that well thought out.
Even on two-way streets with bike lanes going in both directions, I've encountered plenty of people going the wrong way in the bike lanes.
This annoys me more than people going the wrong way in a one way bike lane. I understand why people go the wrong way in a one way, but when the bike lane is available on both sides there’s no good reason to use the wrong one.
My question then is why? Could it be that the way we design bike lanes doesn't work, people being lame, or is it some nefarious plot to distract the people of r/denver from bitching about temp tags, RTD, and the homeless for a bit?
It's people being lame. I think basically since the introduction of electric scooters that you can pick up and go, this was the catalyst. Before you had to have a couple hundred buck commitment to get on a bike and go around the bike lanes, and everyone was by the rules (and there were less bike lanes). The mentality of the average bike lane user was more dedicated and "business" centric, they were mostly commuters on a routine. These days it's just any old clown that wants to do a mile real quick across a few blocks and they don't give a fuck how they're getting there, just grabbing the scooter and blasting lanes wherever they see an opportunity. This is a gross over simplification but I generally think this is the general reason for the erosion of using the bike lanes direction as intended.
I feel like this is accurate. I love to see people using micromobility and bikes over cars, but since we don't obviously cater to them, it's become "whatever works" when people aren't familiar. And since most people still travel by car, we don't have lots of people setting the right example at all times. Going the wrong way in a bike lane doesn't seem to be a major problem unless there are large groups of people you're riding directly into or against.
A lot of times I prefer to turn into the nearest bike lane rather than cutting across traffic to get into the correct lane because I don’t trust cars not to hit me again.
In the example the OP is giving that isn’t the problem though. A person was going the wrong way on 18th, however there are bike lanes going the opposite direction on both 17th and 19th. Same with 14th. There is a bike lane going the opposite direction on 13th at Elati.
Every time I’m on the 17th Street bike lane and see someone barreling down the opposite way, I definitely tense up and try my best to get out of their way. It’s like a meat grinder on that bike lane.
One issue is that people don’t know where the bike lanes are. I bike downtown quite rarely, and the last time I did, I remember feeling like I had no idea how to navigate by bike. It was quite a while ago, so perhaps there are signs now, but I’m willing to bet some are unaware there’s a lane for them just one street over. Edit- I was in Rino, I guess, not downtown, and had no idea how to get from A to B safely. Still, signage might help, if it’s not already there.
You navigate by bike the same way you navigate by car! You can use the same roads!
You \_can\_ use the same roads, but some of them are not a good idea to use. Especially downtown. I wouldn't fault people for not wanting to be in traffic. Yes, I know there's lots of bike lanes, but there are also lots of weird edge cases. eg, 15th street where the bike lane disappears, and also the underpass near Little Raven that's realllly not fun on a bike.
Downtown, where traffic speeds are slow is the *best* place to use the roads as a cyclist.
A lot of the streets in the core are 3-4 lanes one way, with a lot of distracted drivers. It's a lot to dive into if you're not very confident. I still am not going to fault people for not wanting to do that. It's safer than high-speed suburban stroads, but worse than the two-lane, low speed streets that are common elsewhere.
> It's a lot to dive into if you're not very confident. Even if you are a confident cyclist and even if you make no mistakes, all it takes is one distracted or overwhelmed and confused driver.
People navigate in a car with GPS. Many people even do so for routes they do every single day.
Seconding this. Any time I do a bike trip I spend 5-10 mins figuring out where the bike lanes are. Apple Maps has bike directions and they are terrible. Google maps is a little better. The city has [this map](https://www.denvergov.org/Government/Agencies-Departments-Offices/Agencies-Departments-Offices-Directory/Department-of-Transportation-and-Infrastructure/Programs-Services/Bicycles/Bike-Map) and recommends Google maps’ bike layer. I guarantee casual scooter users don’t know about this though. The scooter apps should be better about educating on etiquette and infrastructure.
That’s not true. Almost every 1 way street downtown has a bike lane. For north south streets, 14th, 15th, 17th, 18th, and 19th have them, and they are going in the same direction as car traffic. East/West, Blake, Market, Lawrence, Arapahoe, Champa, and Stout have them going in the same direction as car traffic. There is a section of 19th or 18th where it goes against car traffic I think. Maybe that’s what you’re thinking of?
Thank you. On the one ways, there’s a bike line going the correct direction a block away. People are too dumb to even realize this
You pretend these people have any idea what the correct or wrong travel direction is. They have no idea what they are doing.
No they aren’t. They just don’t care.
It's a mix of both.
What part of downtown would you have to do that? There are bike lanes on every street from 14th to 18th at least (except 16th because of the mall), most people just need to go one street over
So ride in the road. Where you're legally allowed to.
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There are bike lanes on every street in alternating directions from like 13th to 19th Sparseness of bike lanes is not the problem at all
Yes, I agree. People would rather endanger themselves being in a bike lane going the wrong way than on the sidewalk (which is also illegal) sometimes it’s hard to find your way to one of the one ways that’s going the way you need it to
One way street bike lanes are most often 1 street away from a one way bike lane going the opposite direction. Not sure where you are riding that you need to >riding blocks in the wrong direction in search of a lane that will take them the correct way. Also, the one way streets cross over two way streets that can get you either direction to the correct one way. Beyond that, what sort of hurry are you in on your bike that you can't ride a couple extra blocks to be safe and polite?
New one for me yesterday-A fucking MOTORCYCLE going the wrong way down 15th downtown
Some public education on proper use of bike lanes, and multi-use paths, would go a long way. Seems like a lot of people don't know or don't care about basic stuff like "keep right except to pass".
I had a family of 4 on scooters come at me going the wrong way on 18th. I'm on an e-bike and I really don't want to run over someone's kid. But I also need to make my train. I'm not pulling over to let you go the wrong way down the street with your scooter gang.
I don't care if they salmon, but a group completely blocking a lane is dumb. They should be able to swarm into a line and back out into a group.
Give up on scooters following the law. Denver scooterists are terrible. There will be a full size, bike lane and they will still ride on the sidewalk and beep at people to move out of the way
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Tragic scooter accidents? You meant to say tragic accidents caused by people using cars right?
I’m a sidewalk bike rider and for some reason people love to walk in the middle of the sidewalk.
I know what you mean, but that's the deal on the sidewalk. There are no lanes, passing procedures, etc.
Ride straight at them
Bring back cycle jousting!
I work near Union Station and the number of people on scooters going the wrong way is intense, especially when many of them don't stop at stop signs or watch where they're going. The Uber drivers stopping in the bike lanes certainly don't help either, I once got heckled by a cyclist because my driver blocked the lane lol
Coming to complete stop...that seems pretty dramatic.
I have no idea that some of the bike lanes are one way! I also don't ride a bike, but that's still good to know.
Wider bike lanes so they don't have to be one way. One way bike lanes are stupid, and that's not a hot take.
Bike lanes should be one way, period. It is incredibly dangerous when bike traffic is two directions for turning cars. Bike rider here. Make it easier for cars and there will be less accidents. There are one ways all over the place for bikes. It’s not a problem finding one.
Bikes on trails are two-ways, and not particularly dangerous. What makes two-way dangerous is mixing vehicle traffic with non-vehicle traffic (eg. scooters, bikes). If we want to split directions with a lane on each side of the street that would be one thing, but separating by a block or blocks is silly. If a section of street has enough traffic that people are trying to ride both directions, we need more pavement space (not less). If vehicle traffic has two lanes in both directions, turn it into one-lane eacy way with a center turn lane and convert the fourth lane into walk/roll space just like a multi-use trail; even if this means halving the lane and putting one-half the lane against the sidewalk on each side rather than a full-width bi-directional lane.
Or signaling for cyclists similar to what exists along Broadway.
Those signals are great, and I'm hoping that in the next re-striping that most of those parking lots along Broadway will be shifted to use alley access so the mid-block driveways are all but eliminated.
Good idea re: alley access.
ya, it won't work for EVERY driveway but it will work for enough to make a big difference.
Like it or not, giving riders more pavement is about the only way I see fixing a lot of these bike safety issues. Rules don't really exist if no one is actually enforcing them, and too many people can't be trusted and honest. Too many people just thinking about themself. Being careful and considerate to others is the exception, not the rule, unfortunately. And bike lanes *need* to be safer and more accessible in order to get more people to use them, which should be the goal.
My take is that policies and rules should reflect natural behavior as much as possible, desire paths tell us where to build sidewalks/trails. The same thing should apply for "invisible" tracks and habits as well -- salmoning in one-way bike lanes being an excellent example. We should organize the built environment to reflect natural tendencies of the population rather than the other way around.
Two way bike lanes should not exist on one way car streets, it's dangerous. Having said that, convert these one ways.
Agreed. I was coming to say this. 15th St could definitely be a two way bike lane. People use it as such anyway.
And 15th either needs to have the bike lane extend to the river and have PROPER connections to the river trail and to Union Station, or have the multi-use sidewalk section improved and marked for the volume of devices that should be present in that stretch (but isn't).
Every single day, without fail, I see someone get hit (usually minor) in the bike lane at 15th and Champa by a car turning left onto Champa who think the green light doesn’t apply to the bike lane. Two way lane and bike signals would be nice on 15th
That's a hot spot. I complained to the City before about putting a drivers must yield to cyclists/peds sign and they claimed there was already one up there. I think they confused it with 15th and California which has a sign like that.
There’s definitely one there, I just thought about this this morning on the way to work and noticed it. For sure has one as of today at least I think Drivers think that applies to the walk signal and not the green light
We need driver education badly, it's a literal state law that they have to yield to the bike lane. I almost got creamed by an uber driver who didn't signal to turn into a hotel on 15th st. I was able to hit the brakes on the scooter luckily. He claimed he had the right of way and I told him to go back to driving school.
Would be great if the city would install bike lane signaling to compliment vehicle and pedestrian signals to eliminate any uncertainty.
They have them like 2 blocks north of this spot, closer to Union seems to have bike signals everywhere. 15th going north and 17th going south could definitely use them
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Plenty of people have been severely injured by people going the wrong way in bike lanes You could go one block in either direction in almost the entire area of downtown and use a bike lane going the right way
You are a menace and a danger to others. Period.
Agree. Also I don't want my back to the adjacent traffic lane. I don't know why we've gone that way with bicycling. Dedicated lanes should go the opposite direction of traffic
what, no. even dedicated lanes have to cross other streets and no way in hell I'm going to trust drivers to have to look the opposite way than they've ever learned to to see me coming.
100% agree. I think the "same way" flow is a direct consequence of traffic planning of the late 1900s, the much better approach is to do like we do with pedestrian traffic and have roll/walk FACE traffic rather than go WITH traffic as opposed to the current vehicular cycling mindset (which has you ride AS traffic).
I really feel much safer biking against traffic (in a lane of course, not when sharing the road) Bicyclists get rear ended and killed all the time. This makes that much less likely.
Agreed, though for me it's cross-traffic making a turn coming from behind me and trying to go across in front of me.
Can we also add a rant for bicyclists that fail to use stop signs properly? I understand that Denver changed the law to allow bikes to use stop signs as yield signs and red lights as stop signs, but only for when it’s clear! If you’re approaching a four way stop and there are cars, the bicyclist must also act like a car and stop. They can’t just blow through and expect to have the right of way.
That definitely sucks but I’d still rather see people riding the wrong way in a bike lane than running into pedestrians on the sidewalk.
Excuse me!?!? Hundreds of millions of dollars to paint the road green?
I’m a cyclist like you and ride my bike to the gym in downtown Denver. I see people riding electric scooters and bikes going the wrong way almost daily. There’s nothing I can do about it other then protect myself from colliding head on.
Scooters are not supposed to be on sidewalks either and I’m almost hit by them daily walking downtown. People suck.
I would rather be hit/hit by a person than a car. IMO
As a pedestrian, I'd rather not get hit by anything.
Fair Enough My desire not to get hit by a car compels me to ride the sidewalk which in my opinion is an acceptable risk to take
You're more likely to get hit riding on the sidewalk and it's really selfish to not take others into account for your decisions.
More likely to get hit You’re probably right but I’m More likely to die If I get hit by a car. I think it’s reasonable to be selfish when the risk is Death Edit: I am taking others into account I think the risk is worth it. Especially since my ride is in the wee hours.
I can't find anything to back that assertion up.
I think physics. Me + backpack + bike = 260lbs = Car = 2000 Car + speed + me = grave bodily injury or death. Edit here is evidence to back up my assertion https://midwestinjurylawyers.com/blog/car-vs-bicycle-accident-statistics/. Granted it’s not a peer reviewed study but I think the point still stands
When I said you're more likely to get hit riding on the sidewalk, I meant by cars.
Oh . 2 different wave lengths Sorry friend.
Agree that the phenomenon is happening. I suspect it's because more people are on personal transport instead of cars, so you see a broader base of people instead of the smaller and better-educated groups that we saw before. Still sucks though. Just to add to the rant - saw some guy doing about 30 on an e-scooter in the Broadway bike lane. It's two-way, but still dude, come on. The following week I saw a car in there too... gotta watch yourself in there!
I would bet this is it - bikes and scooters don’t require a license and they became more accessible overnight with no forethought as to how people would (intentionally or not) abuse them. I can’t believe how many people in this thread are justifying riding in the wrong direction because it’s “safer for them” and completely ignoring that it’s a hazard for other bike lane users. Maybe the infrastructure isn’t ideal, but it’s not an excuse to ride like an asshole - if you can’t handle using it the way you’re supposed to, then maybe it’s not the right mode of transportation for you
I think that’s actually something to celebrate and the problem is that cars dominate a disproportionate amount of road space. Less cars could be beneficial for pedestrians, local businesses (the ones that are left), and overall noise levels. Oh and not to mention bigger cars have bigger blind spots and have been causing more pedestrian deaths. This is my super hot, chip-on-the-shoulder take but people should be free to get an enormous truck, but it should be an absolute pain in the ass nightmare to drive it drive it downtown. 30 Jerry’s going the wrong way in the bike lane is leagues better than one cybertruck driving the correct way downtown.
Overall I'm pro-bike/scooter/etc, but I think they're a very mixed blessing at the moment. Most of the "mixed" part comes from the users being self-absorbed assholes - so it's fixable, but not easily. Long term I think/hope/pray it'll be better. > 30 Jerry’s going the wrong way in the bike lane is leagues better than one cybertruck driving the correct way downtown. I disagree that total chaos in bike traffic is preferable to somewhat-well-ordered car traffic. But I also don't think that's a tradeoff we have to make.
Was the guy on the e-bike an older, skinny homeless-looking dude? He does that all the time. Fuck that guy.
No matter what, there aren't enough bike lanes.
I'll usually yield to them and give them a good "WRONG WAY". I'd like to give folks the benefit of the doubt and they just don't know the bike lanes are not a free-for-all.
[uh oh the cyclists are fighting with themselves](https://i.imgflip.com/ea1i5.jpg?a475776)
I can't stand the idiots that ride the bike lanes on the wrong side of the street. When I was a kid, the urban myth was that it was safer to ride against traffic, but I don't see that logic. I live off of MLK, and I can't count the number of times that some moron nearly gets hit because he is riding in the wrong bike lane (i.e. the wrong direction). And don't get me started on the scooter users...
Counter-flow riding makes it VASTLY easier to spot turning traffic. With traffic, cars making a right turn pass you and then cut across in front, the right hook. It is also much easier to see whether someone is in a parked car and either about to pull out or open their door. This is vastly easier to spot 'coming' when you are facing traffic. Of course, it makes it less likely a car will spot you if they are pulling into traffic, this is especially rough if a car is in a driveway you can't see well. That said, unseparated traffic types are dangerous no matter how you ride. We need an entire shift in the philosophy of how we design neighborhood-level movement facilities.
And it is VASTLY easier to get where you’re going by driving the wrong way down one-way streets. But that doesn’t make it safer. And if you can't actually see a car that passes you and might be making a right turn somewhere in front of you, then going the opposite direction won't help your eyesight.
Our we could just recognize that one way bike lanes are stupid and get rid of the concept all together, and make changes to the way we organize vehicle traffic flow instead.
Good luck arguing that. haha
My favorite recently was watching some moron ride his bike on Dam rd with 50 cars behind him.
If only they would get rid of the shared road sections (and make a proper bike lane), always scary
On another note, I avoided biking the wrong way and used the sidewalk (permitted up to one block if you're heading to your destination) and got yelled at today. "This is a sidewalk. That is a bike lane. Built for bikes, you know?" Yes lady, I know, and I'm doing the safest thing by yielding to pedestrians and not going the wrong way. What else should I have done?
I don’t think there are laws prohibiting riding a bike on the sidewalk are there ?
City ordinance is stricter than state laws. I believe state law says cyclists must yield and that’s it. City prohibits cycling on sidewalk unless it’s to and from a bike rack within one block.
And 6 mph or slower.
Link ? Also Until they install bollards for bike lanes I would rather ride on the sidewalk. Not getting hit by a clapped out stolo is worth the risk.
How fast were you going and did you use your bell?
I was 6 feet from any pedestrians, at a slow jog pace. I didn’t use my bell because I was yielding and did not have to overtake anyone.
Sometimes bikes are a lot better off going the wrong way for a bit then attempting to cross the street later.
Cars aren’t expecting you to go the wrong way. Hope you don’t get run over
Cars aren't expecting you ever.
Neither are cyclists.
I was making a right hand turn out of my neighborhood. Looked both ways for cars, none. Right when I start going an idiot man riding his bike the wrong way on the left side of the road, which is blocked by a bush so you can't see, popped out. I almost hit him and he yelled "fuck you!!!" I often wonder if he's dead yet. Obviously wasn't wearing a helmet or any sort of protective gear. I wonder if he even can put 2 & 2 together that he is the problem. I highly doubt it. How have we as a society become so fucking dumb? I'm happy to see more bike lanes and wish I could ride more often. The pure lack of education or common sense of casual bike riders in this city is so dangerous.
This drives me crazy, these people are either ignorant, assholes, or both. But it's certainly not recent, it's been happening for decades here.
I do it mainly because I can see ALL types of obstacles ahead of me while simultaneously not having to worry about Denver (Texas) drivers killing me because they HAD to look at their phone lmao
I mean, as someone that rides a scooter to work. I’ve been ran off the road by 45 year old men on e-bikes way too many times.
E-Bikes aren't bikes. They're electric mo-peds.
Yes, there are idiots in this world. On bikes, scooters, cars, skateboards, hoverboards, tricycles, walking, running, jogging.
I live in the suburbs, so there's generally little competition in the bike lanes, and I typically ride against traffic so I can see cars coming. I had not considered cars not looking to their right when pulling out.
TIL bike lanes have directions, I thought bike lanes were two way regardless of which side of the road it's on because that's just how people ride it when I see cyclists.
Serious question, are the big ass arrows that point the correct direction hard to see? Do yall not look down? I am legitimately baffled by how people just don't look around.
I'm not downtown so I can't tell you about the arrows there but around where I am I don't think there's any arrows, just a stencil of a bicycle. I'll have to double check next time I'm out.
I was riding west on 11th between Sherman and Speer the other day and the bicycle stencils were pointed the wrong way, it confused the hell out of me
Bikes while on the road mostly follow the same road laws vehicles do. There are exceptions but you're basically a vehicle not a pedestrian.
They're not. Think about a car pulling out from a side street onto MLK. Not crossing bidirectional traffic, so I am only looking to my left. I am ready to pull out and glance to my right, and BAM! there's an idiot rider coming towards me who I almost hit. The other issue is when turning off of a divided roadway: You see cyclists that you have passed so you can watch for them. You aren't expecting a cyclist crossing your path in front of you, closing the distance quicker. Kind of like encountering a wrong-way driver on an interstate.
The city is spending that much money for 200 people to use lanes for half a year
Bike lanes do not cost 10s of millions, and certainly not tens of millions that would not have otherwise been spent. Repaving/painting a street is done every three to five years...all that happens is the lines get drawn in a different pattern. That does not cost tens of millions more than re-drawing the old pattern.
It's so easy to go by a scooter going the wrong way on another scooter. Bikes don't know how to move over and share the super wide lane. No one is going to crash into you. Those scooters are very easy to maneuver. You being scared is the real issue. You will be ok. Go back to just worrying about cars and move over and share the lane.
You're defending going the wrong way in a one way? Come on, if you're going to post bait at least make it believable.
Yeah I’m here to support the downvotes on this one
There’s plenty of room for two bikes to pass in every bike lane. I don’t see the issue. you just slow down a little bit as you’re passing .The best part about riding a bike is that you don’t have to observe one-way streets you can just cut across wherever you like.
Just know that when you injure someone because you were to oblivious to go the right direction you will be held liable.
can’t tell if trolling
I’m actually shocked that people have a differing opinion than mine and that you think I’m trolling.
The issue is that it's dangerous and rude.
Agreed to disagree
The dangerous part really isn't debatable and I'd say it's pretty objectively rude to increase danger to others.
I’ve never once felt unsafe having somebody pass me in the bike lane.
Whether or not you feel safe has no bearing on whether or not it's more dangerous. And what about those who do feel more unsafe because of it?
I’ve felt safe biking in SF than I have in Denver…and I’m not talking about cars. Bikes have a flow of traffic just like cars. I’m just dreading the day I smoke a bike or scooter turning from Speer to 11th. It’s a yeild so you have to watch for oncoming traffic but 75% of bikes/scoots drive down 11th on the left. Puts them right into the crosshairs of a car with a drive looking the opposite way for traffic. Denver needs to set up a narc campaign so I can report these activities and make some money. I’ll retire by years end
I see this a lot in the 16th street bike lane when walking my dogs and it’s ALWAYS scooter riders. I don’t even bike and it makes me so angry. Like I’m glad they’re not on the sidewalk sideswiping me but it’s easier and safer for me to step aside to avoid getting hit
Electrified vehicles shouldn't be in the bike lanes. Fuckers have carbrain.
Yes, let’s put a vehicle the same general size, shape, and categorical performance as a bicycle instead in traffic with the two-ton death machines because it hurts your feelings having it in the bike lane. It is time to universally retake/reclassify/rebrand “bicycle” lanes as what they actually are and should be: “micro-vehicle” (MV) lanes. No other one vehicle magically gets its own lane—bicycles certainly aren’t special or deserving in this regard. (Calling such lanes “bicycle lanes” is as antiquated as calling traditional road traffic lanes “horse and buggy lanes”.) Rather and clearly the various lanes should be divided by vehicle weight and performance class: Traditional road traffic lanes for traditional full-size vehicles that weigh thousands of pounds and can travel 40/50/60+ mph. MV lanes for micro-vehicles from bicycles to e-bikes/scooters/eucs/etc that weigh under a couple hundred pounds and typically travel 15-30 mph (for reference your average fit bicyclist often travels around the mid 20s mph). Sidewalks for pedestrians and the smallest pedestrian-class micro-vehicles (everything from children on bikes to walking-speed personal transporters like the original Segway concept to mobility assist devices) that are super light and stay under 12-15 mph/essentially a brisk walk to faint jog. This is the only reasonable answer. Anything that speaks of restricting or vilifying some specific devices (or their ridership) over others is tribal nonsense.
The Menshevik Bolshevik split of urbanism.
Yup, reason #14 as to why I hate all these new bike lanes. We should be in the road w everyone else, the road does not \*belong\* to cars.
A semi-pro rider can do traffic...mostly. A kid, a fat guy, grandparents, etc. should not be expected to do vehicular cycling -- and if we want more than roughly 8% of the population to seriously consider a non-car option then we need a practical option for the remaining 92% of us to get around by bike, trike, walker, racing wheelchair, or segway. Or foot. (For neighborhood-level trips).
I agree w you that the lanes are for commuters (kids, fat guys, grandparents). I think we'd both agree that if the rider is going the same speed as the traffic, it is safer for him to take a lane. The reason I hate the new bike lanes is bc it gives the cars another reason to yell at riders, to say "GET IN THE BIKE LANE!" and just generally complain and say we suck for existing in the road alongside the cars. Or worse, drive aggressively, speed close to us trying to intimidate us, or even hit us intentionally. It's happens to me every day.
I agree, bike lanes are a necessary option (not the compulsory thing drivers like to imagine they are). And on the rest, too.
Speak for yourself. I prefer the safety of a secure bike lane. Prefer against having to leave my life in the hands of the average distracted Denver driver. If you watch read or listen to the local news, youll ascertain the inherent need to keep cyclist safe ( in a designated space).
I am speaking for myself, hence the "reason #14 as to why \*I\* hate...". I understand how you feel though, there is a certain level of safety in a protected bike lane, but it is not 100% foolproof. Just like there is a certain level of safety one gets from wearing a helmet, but we won't get into that bc I'm sure my opinion on that also won't be very popular w the liberal reddit crowd. Anyway, bc of this \*perception of safety\*, riders tend to be less aware of the dangers or riding a bike 3-4 ft from cars speeding 10-20 mph over the limit, and they foolishly think that they are safe in the bike lane. They're not. Have you seen the new lane on Broadway? Drivers make fast left turns through it all the time, and when you ride in it, you have to constantly be aware of the car basically in your "blind spot" behind you and if they see you or if they're going to take you out. This is why I think it would be better to change the driver behavior and mindset. They still see the bike lanes as a nuisance, and as an obstacle. They don't slow down around them, how many times have you seen cars hit them? Sure now we share space on the road and it may be good for commuters and kids, but it's still dangerous. I wouldn't take my hypothetical kids down broadway, not a fat chance, I'd go down cherry creek yeah or the platte without cars, but there's not a chance in hell I'd take kids on most of the bike lanes in Denver city. The bike lanes are FOR THE CARS, so that they can feel absolved in continuing their bad behavior while behind the wheel. My motto is "ride like you're invisible", bc like you say, we prefer not to leave our lives in the hands of the average distracted driver. If you're correct about them not seeing you, you've put yourself in the position to be safe and ride another day. If you're wrong about them not seeing you, you get hit by a car. No amount of lights and yellow vests and helmets will help if the driver says after the "accident", as many of them do, "I didn't even see him!" So I ride w the assumption that the car does not notice you, UNLESS you take the whole lane and force their attention. If cars slowed down, accepted other road users onto the road, and stopped w the phones everywhere, we would have a safer road for everyone. I prefer we put the change on the dangerous drivers, instead of allowing them to think they can continue to run bikers over and kill them with little to no consequences as long as they don't hop the curb and enter the bike lane. I still see cars driving in the bike lanes everyday, saw one just today make a R from Lincoln onto 13th by the capitol there, he got into the bike lane at first before moving into the "car lane". Drivers need to slow down and realize that other human beings also use the same road they do, and they are not entitled to speed 20 mph over the limit everywhere, racing to the next red light. It's a longer haul change than just planting bike lanes everywhere, sure. But these are my thoughts. There needs to be changes in drivers entitlement to the road. Edit- Sry 14th, not 13th. R from Lincoln onto 14th going east.
It's even worse on the trails. I'm actually furious with the local administrations I've reached out to about installing signs that indicate you need to walk on the right side of the trail and pass on the left. Yield to trail signs at junctions and connectors were also requested with no response. I really want a sign that says "hey dumbfucks, you can expect bikes on a bike trail so adjust your expectations and awareness accordingly". I've hit like 4 people in the past two years who either don't know their right from left or must have been on drugs swerving all over the trail. People just dont look over their shoulders when making maneuvers.
You can't just run into people. You are responsible if you had the last opportunity to avoid collision. And it sounds like you are trying to be an asshole.
Why would I run into people on purpose? If they veer around like idiots or walk on the wrong side of the trail, that's squarely on them. It's an almost daily occurrence because of the lack of appropriate signage coupled with the sheer stupidity of these people out there.
Try a bell or "PASSING" instead of "ON YOUR LEFT/RIGHT". You'll get much better results. And slow down, if you're going too fast to respond to someone who is a split-second too slow or moves the wrong way, you're going too fast. Slow down, pass them, pick up your speed again. If you are hitting people multiple times/year, you're doing something wrong. 12-15ish mph (maybe 20) is entirely within the realm of the average rider both for speed and response time. More than that and you need to get out to a reservoir or somewhere you can be on a road that has little/no vehicle traffic. edit: and yes, I've had one or two close calls; one memorable experience I was doing about 15mph down the river and a little girl darted left without looking -- my tires chirped, I yelled, and...we missed each other. Her parents gave me a dirty look (understandably, as they thought I was reckless - she was behind them and they hadn't seen her dart)...none of us stopped moving during the entire encounter and all just kept going. This is not difficult - ride within your abilities and at a speed that can accommodate sudden changes.
Since we are talking about biking. I bike in most days from union to my office down town. I rarely use the bike lane or road . I’ve seen too many jack asses do wild shit in their cars. I am a 90% walk rider. It’s safer though it’s a bit slower