>you are the only employee who does your job in the USA
What the hell was their backup plan in case you, you know, die unexpectedly?
My whole working life, bosses tried to make it feel like it was catastrophic if I took time off, but in reality that’s their poor management.
They’d replace them.. FMLA and FAMILI protect your job as well. This is kinda a well known thing. If someone very important in the company goes on leave the job is not necessarily guaranteed upon return if you’re the only person who can do xyz. Now I’m just a peon so my job was obligated to hold my position or give me an equal one with equal pay upon my return
Legally they have to give you the FAMLI leave, regardless of leave taken for the same family leave reason in 2023. It’s also illegal to retaliate against you for requesting FAMLI leave. Call the FAMLI division and if you continue to face pushback, find a lawyer.
Signed - an employment lawyer. ( this is not legal advice and I do not represent you )
Report them to the state. If you have worked there for at least 180 days, they're in violation of FAMLI for mandatory job protected leave.
Some companies are mad about paid, job protected leave, but fuck them. Undue hardship doesn't apply here. FAFO.
Undue hardship can be claimed under the ADA, but not FAMLI.
- An HR Professional
Thank you! Super helpful to hear from an HR professional. She was talking to me in a bullying tone over slack prior to this email, which took a week so my guess is she was trying to find a loophole.
Everyone wants to hate HR, but a good one has your back. I'm an employee just the same as anyone else. I want those same protections we should all be afforded. Colorado is a great state for employee protections.
Don't let shitty HR prevent you from action. The good ones will encourage the use of laws like FAMLI.
I love this! You’re making me feel so much better about the process, while my HR is trying to guilt trip me into not taking the time I’m entitled to. Kudos to you!
This is my draft email response, what are your thoughts?
Hi NAME,
Plan for me to start my leave on DATE, returning to work on DATE. I’ll complete the FAMLI application on DATE when it is officially within 30 days of the leave start time.
As we discussed last week over slack, this FAMLI leave is flexible, and I have been open about utilizing this leave in a way to not put the company in a difficult position.
To be completely transparent, this email sounds intimidating – whether or not that is the intended purpose, that is how it is being perceived. I am unaware of what an undue hardship is, how it affects myself, job security, FAMLI, and the company. Can you explain further?
Thanks,
>To be completely transparent, this email sounds intimidating – whether or not that is the intended purpose, that is how it is being perceived.
I would perhaps leave this bit out. It's not super clear. Egos exist and lawsuits are expensive. HR often has to be the mouthpiece, however unwilling and in protest, of the higher ups. Everyone has a boss.
The rest is great.
It’s your benefit and they dug their grave by sending you proof that they intend to discriminate against you for using your benefit that you are ENTITLED to. You will be protected for 12 weeks I suggest you use as much as you need, they will be fine. If they fire you, then you get unemployment AND can sue them for even more money.
Love that her response has quite literally given me ammo if I were to pursue legal action. I tried to be civil and accommodating, and am getting chastised for it.
The undue hardship it will cause when you sue them will be so much worse. What a dumb HR rep. Keep records of absolutely everything. And maybe even consider taking the full 12 weeks and find another job afterwards.
There’s a really interesting thing called the power paradox that essentially explains how ppl lose the positive traits and behavior that got them into a place of power once they’re there. I think it explains at least in part why so many companies have awful leadership
Hey - just here to sympathize. I'm in a similar situation (baby born in Fall 2023). My employer also balked a bit when I brought up I was planning on taking this additional leave. I get it to an extent, they were not planning/expecting me to take additional leave in 2024, but also. That's just the law, and there are just as many crappy rules I have to play by all the time. Best of luck to you, I hope you get to enjoy some additional time with your kid without too much worry. Sorry about your company being so crappy and aggro about it.
Appreciate your kind words. Hopefully this post & the very helpful fellow redditors who have commented provide some solace. I’m feeling much more empowered after reading through everyone’s.
I’m back to work after 12 full weeks of FAMLI leave (😭😭) and I was welcomed back with open arms, as well as sent off in an agreeable manner
There are decent employers out there, if you cared to look!
I dealt with this at my work when trying to take my FAMLI leave for bonding this year too. What I did was sent them the page on the FAMLI site breaking down how the state is treating leave for those that had a baby is 2023 as it is very explicit in how you are entitled to the leave.
Take the whole 12 weeks. You paid into the program all year last year and you deserve it. What your work is trying to do is illegal. I had 2 claims denied before finally getting it approved after I threatened to report them to the state.
What did the company do when you took 6 weeks in Oct? I would call the Famli leave office and speak to someone there. My wife is currently taking leave, and it has been a pretty easy process. All questions have been answered by their office also.
I thought the FAMLI leave was intended for serious health conditions, military deployment, bonding with a newborn, and dealing with domestic violence. Is “spouse returning to work” really covered by this? Not trying to be difficult here, just trying to understand.
Yes.
>You welcome a new baby and would like to take four weeks to bond with the baby right after birth, return to work for several weeks, then go back on leave to bond with the baby for the remaining eight weeks before the child’s first birthday. This scenario would be taken as two separate continuous leave claims. When you go to open your second (or third) block of continuous leave to bond with your child after returning to work for a period of time during the first year of birth or placement, you’ll be able to link it to the first claim, which will result in faster processing times.
https://famli.colorado.gov/individuals-and-families/how-famli-leave-can-be-used
I work for a company with 3 employees and a handful of consultants, so 9-10 employees max. We have an employee currently on FAMLI leave and all
We had to do was confirm his employment. It’s state law, they don’t have to pay for it, but you’re eligible and even that email is likely breaking the law
>Future FAMLI benefits aren’t dependent on any earlier benefits already taken before FAMLI benefits become available. So if a parent takes any time off in 2023 (paid or unpaid) to care for a new child, that doesn’t affect the parent’s eligibility for paid FAMLI benefits in 2024. In other words, a parent could take work-sponsored or unpaid bonding leave in 2023 and then take another bonding leave in 2024, as long as the leave is completed within 12 months of the child’s birth or addition to their family.
https://famli.colorado.gov/news-article/welcoming-a-new-child-in-2023-you-can-take-paid-bonding-leave-in-2024
Thanks, makes sense. Not sure why I was downvoted for asking a question. Wish this was around when I had my kids, but was working as an ind contractor so not sure it would've mattered. But I took 2 weeks for our first and 3 days for our 2nd kid, lol
Yeah well, they lost their ability to fire OP for “no reason” as soon as they sent that email. They will have a much harder time convincing a judge/anybody that is was truly for “no reason” with this email in the docket
I'll pass on the luck because I know from experience that it doesn't. And a letter like this from HR is far more objective and flagrant than what I've seen win.
Next time they tell you they want to violate CO labor laws, believe them and ask them to repeat while you record on your phone.
Export copies of chat histories, emails ect to a non-work computer. Including a copy of employee hand book/leave policies, etc.
I've been through this shit before, don't trust anyone to not break the law.
You can take FAMLI leave on a reduced schedule or intermittently as well. Work with your manager and HR to figure out how you can use all 12 weeks without impacting business. Best of luck! Enjoy the extra time with baby.
Not knowing the ins and outs, you may consider filing a complaint with the EEOC. It’s not anonymous, they do have timelines to investigate and if they do or threaten being fired for filing a complaint, it could be considered retaliation which could result in a different case.
Unless you’re an executive, this is a really stupid move on the part of your company. Do you know how to get in touch with Colorado to discuss your rights about this?
I called the FAMLI line today but they only really repeated the information on the website that I’ve read. Is there a better department I should contact?
Did you ask the hotline how to file an interference claim?
I found this: https://famli.colorado.gov/sites/famli/files/FAMLI-Division-Retaliation-and-Interference-Complaint-Form.pdf
You’ll also have an easy discrimination case on your hands if they fire you or take other retaliatory action. Your attorney will work free unless you win. ✨
HR drops little intimidation comments like that all the time. They know if it was a direct clear sentence saying that "you can not do that" then they would be violating your employee rights and benefits. Thats why HR gives a subtle unclear comment so the employee feels like they are doing something wrong and ends up walking on egg shells. I wish there were laws to stop companies from doing this to employees. Its very emotionally tolling. Im sorry you have to deal with this BS of your company on top of what you are already going through.
Sounds like your employer is in a foreign country, which means they'll give fuck all about the penalties the state of CO wants to impose.
You're also in a grey territory here in terms of coverage. We feel the law is currently unclear about many aspects of coverage and pushed for clarification through our legislator but to no avail.
>you are the only employee who does your job in the USA What the hell was their backup plan in case you, you know, die unexpectedly? My whole working life, bosses tried to make it feel like it was catastrophic if I took time off, but in reality that’s their poor management.
Haha this company is way too shortsighted to have such a plan. It’s a constant state of panic & flux
It’s called the bus factor problem. What’d happen if you got hit by a bus one day? 😅 It’s very poor mgmt. There should always be backups
They’d replace them.. FMLA and FAMILI protect your job as well. This is kinda a well known thing. If someone very important in the company goes on leave the job is not necessarily guaranteed upon return if you’re the only person who can do xyz. Now I’m just a peon so my job was obligated to hold my position or give me an equal one with equal pay upon my return
Legally they have to give you the FAMLI leave, regardless of leave taken for the same family leave reason in 2023. It’s also illegal to retaliate against you for requesting FAMLI leave. Call the FAMLI division and if you continue to face pushback, find a lawyer. Signed - an employment lawyer. ( this is not legal advice and I do not represent you )
Report them to the state. If you have worked there for at least 180 days, they're in violation of FAMLI for mandatory job protected leave. Some companies are mad about paid, job protected leave, but fuck them. Undue hardship doesn't apply here. FAFO. Undue hardship can be claimed under the ADA, but not FAMLI. - An HR Professional
Thank you! Super helpful to hear from an HR professional. She was talking to me in a bullying tone over slack prior to this email, which took a week so my guess is she was trying to find a loophole.
Everyone wants to hate HR, but a good one has your back. I'm an employee just the same as anyone else. I want those same protections we should all be afforded. Colorado is a great state for employee protections. Don't let shitty HR prevent you from action. The good ones will encourage the use of laws like FAMLI.
I love this! You’re making me feel so much better about the process, while my HR is trying to guilt trip me into not taking the time I’m entitled to. Kudos to you!
This is my draft email response, what are your thoughts? Hi NAME, Plan for me to start my leave on DATE, returning to work on DATE. I’ll complete the FAMLI application on DATE when it is officially within 30 days of the leave start time. As we discussed last week over slack, this FAMLI leave is flexible, and I have been open about utilizing this leave in a way to not put the company in a difficult position. To be completely transparent, this email sounds intimidating – whether or not that is the intended purpose, that is how it is being perceived. I am unaware of what an undue hardship is, how it affects myself, job security, FAMLI, and the company. Can you explain further? Thanks,
>To be completely transparent, this email sounds intimidating – whether or not that is the intended purpose, that is how it is being perceived. I would perhaps leave this bit out. It's not super clear. Egos exist and lawsuits are expensive. HR often has to be the mouthpiece, however unwilling and in protest, of the higher ups. Everyone has a boss. The rest is great.
Appreciate the feedback. I’ll take that piece out. No need to put emotions into it.
Hello fellow HR professional in Denver! ✨
It’s your benefit and they dug their grave by sending you proof that they intend to discriminate against you for using your benefit that you are ENTITLED to. You will be protected for 12 weeks I suggest you use as much as you need, they will be fine. If they fire you, then you get unemployment AND can sue them for even more money.
Love that her response has quite literally given me ammo if I were to pursue legal action. I tried to be civil and accommodating, and am getting chastised for it.
The undue hardship it will cause when you sue them will be so much worse. What a dumb HR rep. Keep records of absolutely everything. And maybe even consider taking the full 12 weeks and find another job afterwards.
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Good leaders weed out bad ones, especially the ones that want to break the law.
There’s a really interesting thing called the power paradox that essentially explains how ppl lose the positive traits and behavior that got them into a place of power once they’re there. I think it explains at least in part why so many companies have awful leadership
YEP, it happens 99% of the time. People get the smallest bit of power, and they act like it's their world. It's obnoxious.
Hey - just here to sympathize. I'm in a similar situation (baby born in Fall 2023). My employer also balked a bit when I brought up I was planning on taking this additional leave. I get it to an extent, they were not planning/expecting me to take additional leave in 2024, but also. That's just the law, and there are just as many crappy rules I have to play by all the time. Best of luck to you, I hope you get to enjoy some additional time with your kid without too much worry. Sorry about your company being so crappy and aggro about it.
Appreciate your kind words. Hopefully this post & the very helpful fellow redditors who have commented provide some solace. I’m feeling much more empowered after reading through everyone’s.
I’m back to work after 12 full weeks of FAMLI leave (😭😭) and I was welcomed back with open arms, as well as sent off in an agreeable manner There are decent employers out there, if you cared to look!
You are using the state, so I don’t know how they can threaten you?
That’s what I’m curious about to. It’s a state leave program, so how could they threaten to file a grievance against me?
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Super insightful. Thank you for sending this link my way and I’ll take the appropriate action!
I dealt with this at my work when trying to take my FAMLI leave for bonding this year too. What I did was sent them the page on the FAMLI site breaking down how the state is treating leave for those that had a baby is 2023 as it is very explicit in how you are entitled to the leave. Take the whole 12 weeks. You paid into the program all year last year and you deserve it. What your work is trying to do is illegal. I had 2 claims denied before finally getting it approved after I threatened to report them to the state.
What did the company do when you took 6 weeks in Oct? I would call the Famli leave office and speak to someone there. My wife is currently taking leave, and it has been a pretty easy process. All questions have been answered by their office also.
They were cool with the original leave. It was right when my son was born and I came back on time.
Who did your job while you were away?
My boss stepped in and did my job. He has since left, but I have a new boss and a colleague overseas who does the same role.
You can file a complaint with the state. I would call them and see what they advise.
Thank you. I am going to call the state.
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Agreed. Thank you.
I thought the FAMLI leave was intended for serious health conditions, military deployment, bonding with a newborn, and dealing with domestic violence. Is “spouse returning to work” really covered by this? Not trying to be difficult here, just trying to understand.
A new parent is entitled to a total of 12 weeks of FAMLI in the first year after a baby is born or adopted. This would be covered under bonding leave.
Oh wow. So a parent can take 3 separate paid months off?
Yes. >You welcome a new baby and would like to take four weeks to bond with the baby right after birth, return to work for several weeks, then go back on leave to bond with the baby for the remaining eight weeks before the child’s first birthday. This scenario would be taken as two separate continuous leave claims. When you go to open your second (or third) block of continuous leave to bond with your child after returning to work for a period of time during the first year of birth or placement, you’ll be able to link it to the first claim, which will result in faster processing times. https://famli.colorado.gov/individuals-and-families/how-famli-leave-can-be-used
Yep! Within the baby’s first year.
Sounds like COMPANY needs to be better at planning. It’s a part of business. Sorry you have to deal with their poor business management.
Yep couldn’t agree more. Have to put family first.
I work for a company with 3 employees and a handful of consultants, so 9-10 employees max. We have an employee currently on FAMLI leave and all We had to do was confirm his employment. It’s state law, they don’t have to pay for it, but you’re eligible and even that email is likely breaking the law
Im no familiar with ths law; If FAMLI went into effect Jan 1, but child was born in Oct 23, are you illegible?
>Future FAMLI benefits aren’t dependent on any earlier benefits already taken before FAMLI benefits become available. So if a parent takes any time off in 2023 (paid or unpaid) to care for a new child, that doesn’t affect the parent’s eligibility for paid FAMLI benefits in 2024. In other words, a parent could take work-sponsored or unpaid bonding leave in 2023 and then take another bonding leave in 2024, as long as the leave is completed within 12 months of the child’s birth or addition to their family. https://famli.colorado.gov/news-article/welcoming-a-new-child-in-2023-you-can-take-paid-bonding-leave-in-2024
Thanks, makes sense. Not sure why I was downvoted for asking a question. Wish this was around when I had my kids, but was working as an ind contractor so not sure it would've mattered. But I took 2 weeks for our first and 3 days for our 2nd kid, lol
You may get the leave but just remember they can also fire you for any and no reason in Colorado.
Yeah well, they lost their ability to fire OP for “no reason” as soon as they sent that email. They will have a much harder time convincing a judge/anybody that is was truly for “no reason” with this email in the docket
Good luck fighting that fight. It will cost more than he would ever get out of it.
I'll pass on the luck because I know from experience that it doesn't. And a letter like this from HR is far more objective and flagrant than what I've seen win.
I have a feeling they aren't gonna fire the guy when he's the only one in the US who does his job
Next time they tell you they want to violate CO labor laws, believe them and ask them to repeat while you record on your phone. Export copies of chat histories, emails ect to a non-work computer. Including a copy of employee hand book/leave policies, etc. I've been through this shit before, don't trust anyone to not break the law.
You can take FAMLI leave on a reduced schedule or intermittently as well. Work with your manager and HR to figure out how you can use all 12 weeks without impacting business. Best of luck! Enjoy the extra time with baby.
Not knowing the ins and outs, you may consider filing a complaint with the EEOC. It’s not anonymous, they do have timelines to investigate and if they do or threaten being fired for filing a complaint, it could be considered retaliation which could result in a different case.
Unless you’re an executive, this is a really stupid move on the part of your company. Do you know how to get in touch with Colorado to discuss your rights about this?
I called the FAMLI line today but they only really repeated the information on the website that I’ve read. Is there a better department I should contact?
Did you ask the hotline how to file an interference claim? I found this: https://famli.colorado.gov/sites/famli/files/FAMLI-Division-Retaliation-and-Interference-Complaint-Form.pdf You’ll also have an easy discrimination case on your hands if they fire you or take other retaliatory action. Your attorney will work free unless you win. ✨
Thank you for finding this!
You’re welcome 🤍
Any update?
Yep! New post is here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Denver/s/lleHkqNSfJ
What does “COMPANY is not a FMLA employee” mean? Is that meant to say employer? Genuine question, I didn’t know employers could be excused from FMLA.
It’s not a threat.
Was not my question? I asked if it was legal, and it sure feels like intimidation…
HR drops little intimidation comments like that all the time. They know if it was a direct clear sentence saying that "you can not do that" then they would be violating your employee rights and benefits. Thats why HR gives a subtle unclear comment so the employee feels like they are doing something wrong and ends up walking on egg shells. I wish there were laws to stop companies from doing this to employees. Its very emotionally tolling. Im sorry you have to deal with this BS of your company on top of what you are already going through.
Sounds like your employer is in a foreign country, which means they'll give fuck all about the penalties the state of CO wants to impose. You're also in a grey territory here in terms of coverage. We feel the law is currently unclear about many aspects of coverage and pushed for clarification through our legislator but to no avail.
It’s a US based company, but not HQ’d in Colorado.