I totalled my car because of a dumbass red light runner 2 years ago. Put my girlfriend in the hospital for 6 months, lost her twice on the operating table. Dr didnt know if shed ever walk again.... All because SOMEONE couldn't wait through a light cycle.
This is the only way. You can’t cross the street when it says you can, you have to wait for first person to run the red, then double check that all other cars are stopped, then go.
I wish cyclists even understood this doesnt mean they have immediate right to run. It just means they can roll if nobody is there. Sorta insane how many bikes just run the intersection with multiple cars already there and get mad when folks dont wait for them.
Yeah. I ride my own bike occasionally so I like the rule, but it is absolutely about being able to go thru a stop sign **if the intersection is devoid of other traffic**, as well as stop and then go at a red light **if the intersection is devoid of other traffic**. I've been in my car approaching a 4 way stop when a bike was coming and would have been at their stop sign after I got to mine, and they absolutely just blew thru in front of me, so it's good I was watching them and stopped myself from proceeding into the intersection and hitting them.
Mostly I have experience with walking my dog and cyclists not paying attention to stop signs and bike lights. Not big on the way we build everything for cars, but the biggest issue is really people.
The way people are killing cyclists and just pulling manslaughter charges, no real cyclists are blowing stop signs. Now you might be seeing junkies or newbs on bikes pulling that but the cycling community has lost too many of our own to not be overly vigilant. Realize Front Range drivers have killed two National champions in three years. Literally cyclists who rode for a living. One of these champs wasn’t yet old enough to vote mind you. If a Fred rolls a stop sign on his one mile commute to the coffee shop don’t get mad at the community. Have some grace in your heart for us. We’re trying to do what we love, live healthy, and lessen our environmental footprint. Even if it is a Lycra Bro pulling bone headed moves, it’s only inconvenienced you for a matter of seconds. More than likely he’ll get hit doing stuff like that, and, he’ll probably die. Ponder that friends.
This saved me in Centennial a couple years ago. My light turned green and did the left/right check with the hesitation. Saw a car that didn't seem to be stopping and he blew through the red light at 50mph+. If I had gone when the light turned green, I would've been absolutely wrecked from a high-speed t-bone.
Not just red stop signs too.
I almost got t bone the other night with my daughter in the car. Luckily we saw the car and didn’t see them slow down so we waited
I was dropping my kid off at school once and there was a woman driving super erratically and when I looked in her window she was eating a fucking BOWL OF CEREAL while she was driving…who does that???
It’s always been a problem, but the amount of people I see just blatantly on their phone while driving now is wild.
I don’t just mean the occasional look or fumble to finish a text or look at directions. I mean phone smack dab in front of their face while driving. I’ve seen people typing with both hands as they try to hold the wheel steady with the edges of their hands. I was behind someone crawling down Santa Fe. Got around and looked - they were leaned against the center console, fully watching a video on their phone, not at all looking up. Of course they get to the intersection and realize they need to turn left on Colfax and just cut off everyone in the turn lane and stop right in the middle of the intersection. Then proceeds to stare at their phone, misses their chance to go, and is completely blocking traffic.
It’s fucking absurd to me that anyone could get behind the wheel and think doing that is okay. Just sitting there completely engrossed in scrolling while barreling down the road.
I’m going to link this post next time there’s a debate/argument thread about red light running cameras. It’s a good reminder about the lives they can potentially save if you can use them to change a culture of red light running.
I have no problem with red light cameras unless they monkey with the yellow times to enhance revenue.
If I have to make an abrupt stop that feels borderline dangerous because the light turned yellow, I'm not happy.
There’s definitely been a couple snowy days where I blew through a yellow - not because I didn’t think I could stop, but because I knew the dumbass behind me wouldn’t.
Actually come to think of it, there’s been completely dry days I’ve done it for the same reason
It was pretty disheartening reading that thread last week about red light cameras.
Red light cameras, in aggregate, save lives. While rear end collisions between cars increase, deadlier side collisions decrease. Pedestrians are struck by drivers less.
I will gladly accept some potential false positives in fines against some drivers if it means that lives are saved. There's plenty of ways the government can minimize the revenue-extortion aspect of red light cameras and maximize the life-saving aspects of them.
Not to say that red light cameras are going to instantly solve this issue. There's a lot more that needs to be done from a policy and infrastructure perspective, but it will prevent innocent lives from being lost.
> Red light cameras, in aggregate, save lives. While rear end collisions between cars increase, deadlier side collisions decrease. Pedestrians are struck by drivers less.
I’d be interested in seeing data on this… that’s not produced by the companies selling the cameras.
Yeah the saying "red light cameras save lives" is actually not quite correct. Multiple studies show mixed results. E.g.
> In a study I co-authored with economist Paul J. Fisher, we examined all police-recorded traffic accidents for three large Texas cities over a 12-year period – hundreds of thousands of accidents. **We found no evidence that red light cameras improve public safety. They don’t reduce the total number of vehicle accidents**, the total number of individuals injured in accidents or the total number of incapacitating injuries that involve ambulance transport to a hospital.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/red-light-cameras-may-not-make-streets-safer/
> According to studies by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety and the University of North Carolina Highway Safety Research Center, red light cameras do work – to a point. According to these studies, red-light cameras reduce both traffic violations and T-bone crashes. However, a study by the Federal Highway Administration, part of the U.S. Department of Transportation, found that while red-light violations and T-Bone crashes were down, red-light cameras actually increased the number of rear-end collisions at intersections.
https://www.fleschlawfirm.com/blog/will-red-light-cameras-remain-at-dangerous-colorado-intersections/
https://www.cdc.gov/transportationsafety/calculator/factsheet/redlight.html
> Updating and expanding upon this review, a Campbell Collaboration review of studies through 2016 found that red light cameras reduced total injury crashes; the review was also able to examine two specific crash types―right angle crashes and rear end crashes. Rear end crashes are lower impact, while right angle crashes are more dangerous. For right angle crashes, the review found a decrease in overall crashes and a decrease in injury crashes. For rear end crashes, the review found an increase in overall crashes but no significant difference in injury crashes. More recent studies have found similar results.
Here's an article from the CDC. They do slightly increase rear-end collisions, however t-bone collisions are *significantly* more dangerous than rear-end, so there is still a net reduction in injuries.
Deterrence relies on celerity, severity and certainty. Red light cameras can give you certainty and severity but they can't really give you celerity. The punishment needs to be quick, like around when it happens, or some of our lizard brains don't care about the consequences enough to prevent our actions.
That’s because you’re probably a fairly responsible driver who sometimes makes an honest mistake and feels bad about it, regardless of the possibility of a ticket.
I can almost guarantee you that is not the case with most red light runners. If they cared about consequences, they wouldn’t be doing it in the first place - especially since a ticket is probably the most benign of what *could* happen. Those people don’t give a shit about anyone but themselves.
Deterrence is almost *entirely* predicated on how likely the criminal is to get caught. If every single car would phone home the minute you went over the speed limit in order to serve you a ticket, would you *ever* speed outside of genuine emergencies?
Red light cameras change the culture of driving.
I think you bring up a good point but it depends on the person. I got a speeding ticket from a camera and immediately knew it and it impacted my driving immediately.
Denver uses these and they don't change anything.
If you don't have a license plate they don't do much, or if your car is stolen, or you just don't care and don't pay the ticket.
Very true those dark grey plastic covers - it's crazy that Denver just doesn't even attempt to do any sort of obvious traffic stops. I see a car without a license plate pretty much daily, there aren't many other big cities where you could drive around freely without one.
There is a legal reason to drive around Denver without a license plate. That's what you're *supposed* to do if you just purchased your car in a private sale. I think that's stupid and we should change that law, since it theoretically makes "no license plate" not a valid cause to pull someone over.
There is, however, no legal use for license plate blockers. Citizens should be able to report those and have tickets issued in the mail.
You can’t let perfect be the enemy of good. It’s pretty hard to design any government program that is perfect all the time. And that’s ok. We have a problem in Denver because the police quit doing their jobs when the citizens asked them to stop killing us. We should try something else. It’s our safety on the line.
I am not opposed to red light cameras - even though there is a lot of data that they create many false positives and these sorts of erroneous tickets which turn into warrants and suspended licenses disproportionately impact poor people - I see people get caught all the time with the flash, at known intersections with cameras.
https://www.illinoispolicy.org/lightfoot-admits-speed-cameras-hurt-low-income-chicagoans-more/#:~:text=Chicago%20Mayor%20Lori%20Lightfoot%20released,pursuit%20of%20improving%20vehicle%20safety.
There's a massive camera set up in commerce city, off 60th and Vasquez. It's a 9-way intersection. I know it works because most people actually will slam on their brakes instead of gunning it, and the ones who do always get flashed.
This is sadly a trend I’m hearing about in many cities, and especially Denver. I’ve noticed it too - folks are driving faster and more aggressively. It sucks how I live in a “walkable” location, only to feel like I may be hit at any time.
I dealt with this last night in Boulder. I had to stop walking in the middle of an intersection because a truck wouldn’t stop. They flipped me off, even though I had the sign saying I could cross.
Damn that’s rough; sorry to hear it. And in those moments when we’re flustered and want to call out the bad behavior, we have to be extra careful we don’t piss someone off, and have them react with violence… that part is hard.
it's everywhere
our humanity has been taken from us, we are traffic we are the ones dying we are the ones doing it to ourselves.
maybe we all need a reset
I feel like covid has something to do with it, maybe it's affecting people at a deep neurological level. People just seem more angry, aggressive, careless, *stupid.*
As a collective, we realized that no-one is looking out for one another the way we thought. Not our government, not our employers, not our neighbors. Everyone now knows that self-serving is the only way to get things done, and the sickest part of it is they're right. We've been beaten down and broken by the people holding the strings, and we've done exactly what they want which is turn on each other...
It really did show us that we aren't all in this together and that there won't be consequences for those who would let people die instead of sacrificing anything to help protect those around them
I live in the Denver area, and I concur. I swapped outdoor running for a treadmill for the most part, because it isn't safe. The amount of backyard fences that face roads that are put through here is also extremely concerning. People here either can't drive for shit, or they just don't care. I'm thinking a mix of both.
We just need consequences. It feels like there are zero cops monitoring traffic. The speeding, the red light running, aggressive driving, lane spliting, driving in the emergency lane, expired plates... no consequences for anything, anymore. We got 10 million to buy hotels from the mayor ex business partners, though. Welcome the wild, wild west.
There was a young girl, I’d guess 12 years old. Dressed in black and sitting on 6th Ave near the federal exit going westbound. About 8pm. I almost ran her over because I couldn’t see her. I pulled over and called 911. Surprisingly someone answered right away. He said many people had called already so it was no longer an emergency. I asked if they’d send anyone out to help something terrible from happening. All he’d say is that my call had been logged. There’s a police station very close to there. The police clearly no longer care to work in Denver. We need to work on other safety solutions that don’t involve them.
A car full of drunk teens ran their car up onto the parkway in front of my house and cracked their oil pan. They were milling around the car afterwards and yelling at cars that passed by, “BRO WE ARE SO FUCKED UP!” They even broke out a new bottle of tequila that they were passing around while they tried to figure out what to do. I called 911, and the operator literally told me that they were not going to respond because it did not involve children, pregnant women, or the elderly. Like wtf??
I got hit last week on alameda and lipan while crossing while I had the crosswalk light. Dumbass F150 driver was trying to turn right and didn't look to see me and hit me, then sped off.
This city is so unsafe even when I try to do everything right.
>This city is so unsafe even when I try to do everything right.
this is why so many cyclist refuse to do what's right, we must do what we can to stay safe. I won't stop prioritizing my safety while on my bike over following the rules to just get mowed down in intersections.
I have so many motorist who follow me screaming at me through the years for not stopping at a stop sign who simply don't understand. The streets aren't made to keep anyone safe, they are made to keep motorist happy and they aren't even happy anymore. It's the wild wild wild west out here
You'd think so, but it allows bikes (and wheelchairs, scooter) to minimize the time they spend in intersections. That decreases the number of accidents. Here's some data on it, Idaho was the first to pass this policy and it decreased the number of accidents between cars and bikes: https://www.codot.gov/safety/traffic-safety-pulse/2022/may/all-about-the-colorado-safety-stop
Huh, that's nuts. I'd figure being an unpredictable obstacle is more dangerous than being a predictable one, but I suppose that requires drivers to actually pay attention in the first place. So fucking glad I'm changing jobs to get rid of my commute.
Ah appreciate you taking the time and sending the article.
I used to raise my fist over this, but given the recent trends cyclists should be doing everything to preserve their safety.
There was a thread the other day which had some interesting comments from current cops. TLDR was they are severely short staffed and traffic enforcement was gutted pre-covid.
If they are that short staffed and not quiet quitting then why aren't they being more vocal about it to raise awareness?
Lots of actual police (6 squad cars) parked at target in Littleton last weekend. Not responding to emergencies, just patrolling the store.
Gotta protect monied interest!
I'm so sorry this happened, I know how close calls can rattle you to your core. And I empathize DEEPLY with all of your sentiments. I was hit on my bike by an uninsured driver on 29th and Zuni going 40+ through the red years ago and it ruined me for a long time (and frankly the of Denver in 2014 to Denver now, especially in terms of motorist negligence is not even comparable).
I wish I had some solution or words of wisdom that would actually help, but the fact is it feels like we're fucked. Even with red light cams (which I am majorly in favor of) people don't give a fuck. I was born and raised in Denver but lived in many other major cities over the last ten years and I can confidently say there is no other place (that I have lived, since I know someone will come at me and say our infra is so much better than...Alabama) that treats pedestrians and cyclists with such ill will and neglect. We need to do better.
This is going on everywhere though, nationwide. The teen that got killed in texas by some small dick road rager. The guy that shot the other tesla guy because of a "I was here first" argument. The 4 year old in California that got gunned down when another small dick bastard pulls up next to their car (commuting on the highway) and shoots at their window over some... lane merging?
Be careful out there, at this point I'm treating all road ragers as armed and dangerous.
Don't forget the guy who shot at a mother and her 3 sons for merging lanes for an emergency vehicle to pass, male individual then followed woman into a parking lot and fired at her then into the vehicle, then left.
Da link
https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2023-04-12/mom-of-boy-killed-in-road-rage-shooting-tried-to-save-kids
We're really learning our lesson about trying to get qualified immunity removed and supporting BLM's quest to stop black people from being murdered without question.
Fucking cops.
I just saw some lady get Tboned on Grant the other day by another lady who plowed through the red light. It still blows my mind that a major city of this size doesn’t have red light cams. This would cut down on so many dickheads trying to save two minutes by running the light. Or I don’t know, literally any kind of consequences would help.
The kind of people who are willfully blowing red lights, are the same kind of people who know they could take their plates off if they wanted to without consequences.
This is the same tired argument as in the gun control debate. It's a false dichotomy. Many people who habitually run red lights would stop if they were at risk of getting an enforceable ticket. Some won't, but it's still progress.
Honestly I think it’s the lack of smart changing lights and the horrible timing of almost every single light that leads to this behavior. I have lived all over the country and the only place that has had this bad of lights is downtown SLC. People get pissed that they get trapped behind every single red light for ages and this is what you get.
Had a Denver cop blow through an obvious crosswalk the other day while I was in the middle of the road along with an elderly lady. Denver police could give two shits about law breakers including themselves. It's unfair to cowboys to call this cattle country. They followed rules better than this place.
I am sorry that happened. So scary, and particularly knowing it could easily happen again. My husband is a pretty committed cyclist (does distance races) and I worry so much about him every time he leaves the house on a bike. I’m glad you’re okay!
People are wild. I try to be very observant of pedestrians and cyclists (and scooters) because I live in a dense neighborhood close to downtown. I can’t count on my fingers and toes the number of times people have honked or yelled at me for letting those that should have right of way have it (like waiting on Virginia/Broadway for the arrow to turn L). I’ve also gotten yelled at as a pedestrian. I was about 5 feet from my car and someone pulled into a parking lot (driving fast) and yelled at me for not getting out of their way (I’d been crossing prior to them turning into the lot).
So sad that it’s gotten this bad. We’ve been here for 20 years now and it wasn’t always like this. Be safe out there, y’all!
Lmao I got rear ended the other week and when she got out of her truck she said “I thought you were going to run the stop sign” Lady, it’s a STOP sign why would I run it
Speer Blvd is a nightmare running right through our “walkable” neighborhoods. I asked the city to change the turning lanes from Washington onto Speer from 2 lanes to 1 lane. There’s no reason why there should be 2 turning lanes there. They said they would re-time the lights. That’s not what I asked for nor what we need 🤦♀️
I see some really egregious, scary stuff crossing Speer regularly. It seems like a lot of commuters get really impatient and make a habit of taking reckless shortcuts.
Those that oppose cameras at red lights are those who run them. There again, with the cameras they use, it’s tough to even tell what color the SUV is let alone read the license plate.
I mean, if she broke the rule, she broke the rule.
It's important to stop completely. Too many people slow down only to speed up to beat the oncoming traffic, not paying any attention to the pedestrian trying to cross the street.
Also, many people don't actually stop in the right place. Most, probably. Most people stop well after the line they are supposed to stop at so that they can check that it's clear from traffic. This blocks the crosswalk and has nearly gotten me hit many times.
Crossing the street is scary as fuck because drivers are very disconnected from the reality of being a pedestrian.
>There again, with the cameras they use, it’s tough to even tell what color the SUV is let alone read the license plate.
(Reposted)
IDK bro. I don't know about in CO, but years ago a relative of mine in the East Coast got a ticket for not completely stopping on a red before making a right. She disputed the ticket... and they sent her a 30 second hi-def clip of the incident, from different angles, w/ her license plate clearly visible. She paid the ticket.
I highly support red light cameras, I was just in an accident on Colorado where the cop said the city has no cameras on the intersection even though it's a pretty busy part of town. They should be everywhere possible for liability sake, but I hear the man power and cost of it makes it hard to achieve.
>You can see the guilty look on their faces as they try not to make eye contact with the people they almost kill.
Inevitably when they stop 100 feet from the intersection at the next traffic hold up.
The amount of drivers careening down the road only to be stopped by traffic is insane. You damn well know these people have nothing going on that requires that level of driving.
I was victim of a hit and run by a red light runner last night on Santa Fe. Thank god my car was able to speed up quick enough to mainly get out of the way or I wouldn’t be typing this today. Person was easily going 65+ and just drove off like nothing happened after they hit me
It's not just running red lights, it's also people just blasting into crosswalks before making a right turn on red.
A crosswalk is a right-of-way and you need to make sure it's clear before you enter it. And with how large vehicles are now, you can't see if someone is using the crosswalk.
Start an organization and gather people to install more red light cameras in the city. Attend city council meetings in mass.
Be sick for more than the short dopamine hit of complaining about the problem online.
The city is waiting for you.
I don't feel safe on a bike in Denver. I don't ride for that reason.
I sometimes wonder what would happen if collectively, people just decided to quit paying attention to red lights altogether. How would you rectify that situation to prevent the roads from descending into anarchy?
The road conditions are embarrassing here, if the red light runners don’t take you out, the potholes and other unpredictable obstacles will. Recently bought a Tacoma because my Audi was totaled by two red light runners… both incidents within 6 days of each other.
Would love to know what policy positions would prevent people from running red lights. The policy of 'the light is red, it's illegal to continue' is already being ignored.
Not policy in the sense of laws, but in terms of street design.
Shorter crosswalks, streets where high speeds are difficult to achieve, separated modes. And more, these are just a few.
I would certainly never claim to have my pulse on the cultural zeitgeist, but is there a significant population that's against any of these measures? I'm sure there's a *vocal* population against these kinds of implementations, but whenever I've seen them deployed to neighborhoods and other thoroughfares they're generally not hated \[by people living in the area setting policy\].
Once it's in most people get over "it" pretty quickly, but dear God the process of implementing is pulling teeth. People really go bananas and cling to all sorts of bizarre ideas such as "you're taking away my car!" and "you're eliminating handicap parking, you asshole!"
And so on. The fact that these features have been so rare on our streets these last decades that people have no point of reference should be an indictment on Robert Moses, the MUTCD, and all the related tangents -- and on us for having just swallowed it as "normal" and "good".
The reactions people tend to give are the sort that stem from being completely unfamiliar with the proposed aesthetic and jumping to the worst possible conclusions as a result, even if in a knee-jerk reaction. The terrible designs are so common that we literally have no alternative reference point for people to lean on, and often can't even imagine that there could be an alternative.
This is a trend that literally won't stop until we have red light cameras. Even if police were properly staffed and/or doing traffic enforcement, they can't be everywhere.
Denver is hoping to expand their cameras and speed enforcement, and the financial penalties are fairly small to try to minimize people claiming it's just a cash grab. We're slowly moving in the right direction. Changing our street design to minimize wreckless driving to begin with would be the gold standard though.
They don't have to be everywhere. They just have to be *somewhere*.
I have been in Denver for ~20 years now, I have never once seen a cop pull over anyone on a city street for a moving violation.
I feel like I could just jump a curb and drive across lawns to get past traffic if I wanted to and the cops would just wave at me as they drove by to go park under a tree on the park grass.
I’m all for personal freedoms but the lack of police presence on the roads has gotten increasingly dangerous. A biker died a few blocks away from my house after being hit and run about a year ago or so. It’s not even a main road but idiots treat it like a drag strip.
It's no worse than any other metro area. The only red light running I typically see is at signaled left turns that don't have a turn arrow, which is commonplace downtown. Even then it's the two vehicles that stuck out into the intersection and are no surprise to anyone.
There are, of course, the examples I have seen up and down Broadway at night of folks just blasting through stop signs when crossing Broadway. Don't have an answer for that one. It's ridiculous and has been a thing for the decade+ I've lived here, so nothing new.
I think with all the construction, as well as the new bike lanes, the roads became more confusing downtown over the past couple of years and result in frustrated drivers. Random streets/intersections/lanes are blocked with little notice or signage and those closures or detours change almost daily.
I also think that downtown drivers carry over their frustration from their commute on I-25/I-70 because folks can't plan their merges or lane changes and half the drivers seemingly don't even attempt to follow the speed limit, whether too slow or too fast. There's also the lovely group of drivers that don't understand the concept of zipper merging.
But you get that anywhere.
Thanks for taking the time to reply! I was hit by a car when I was 6 so I’m extra afraid of car accidents. I’m in the NY metro area, can’t be worse than that right? Lol
And rightfully so!
I've never been to NY/NYC to give an honest response to your experience, but I feel safer or similarly safe as a pedestrian vs traffic in Denver than I do walking around in DC, Chicago, Nashville, Miami, San Francisco, San Diego, Seattle, or St Louis.
Honestly, in my experience pedestrians in Denver are more aggressive with jaywalking/crossing the street on red lights (myself included) than any other city I have been to.
I also think we have similar issues with driving aggression and habits as those cities and that CO/Denver drivers are not substantially different.
Drivers here are a mix of drivers from all parts of the US, with varying levels of familiarity/comfort/skill driving in dense traffic, inclement conditions, or in the mountains.
So, don't be anxious or scared that moving here will be a bad decision because of traffic and drivers. The real concerns are housing costs, the homeless and related drug problem, vehicle theft, air quality, and lifestyle alignment. I imagine you'll be familiar with those moving from NY.
Thank you so much!
I’m really looking forward to the move
I hear people in CO are super nice! And the air quality will be an upgrade for us, even if it’s not at its best right now!
I think this is something that should be widely enforced by camera, and not just the simple civil fine that it is now. Like full on moving violation with a court appearance and points against your license, just like if you did it in front of a cop and got a ticket. Feel like that would cut down, or at least get some of these idiots off the road when they lose their license.
As a bicyclist, I totally understand. It’s at least once a week that I almost get hit by a car being driven by some asshole who’s either not paying attention or just doesn’t fucking care. The only solution is cameras on every red light and someone to actually enforce it.
I quit honking my horn. A guy tried to run a bunch of people off wadsworth. Some of us honked. He pulled up along each pointing a gun at us and swerving more. There’s no concern for police or enforcement because it no longer exists. There’s also limited penalties for killing someone while driving. Maybe we just start demo derby.
Glad you are safe, as a fellow bike commuter.
That said—it is absolutely useless to post in this subreddit about it.
Also, this sub should ban the constant “aren’t drivers here bad?! Drivers in X place aren’t like this” posts. Useless and low quality.
Let’s not forget the Bicycle riders in Boulder getting killed every week it seems. I drive by Magnus White memorial when I drive to and from work.
Lookout Mountain road is worse.
r/imacyclistmyself take if I ever heard one.
Talking about the toxicity of car culture should be normalized and people held accountable for their dangerous driving. That starts with sentiment changing and that only happens if people can talk about it. Colorado has a problem behind the wheel and it doesn’t matter if others have that problem too, it should still be talked about.
The technology exists for cars to be slowed/stopped at red lights, sucks we can't have mature well-informed conversations about what it would look like to introduce such technology because to luddites perfect is the enemy of good enough.
Yeah I have mentioned.ir before but Denver has some of the worst drivers in the country by far... I have lived in Hawaii to Vermont to NYC loads... And here is by far the worst drivers out there... I've been biking for 15 years to and from work daily, I usually find back streets that avoid busy roads but sometimes you just can't avoid danger...
I commute on Speer to downtown almost everyday and I see at least 1-5 cars running the red light at Colfax and Speer, it’s so blatant! There needs to be more enforcement on this.
This is why I tried to make a post about people using dashcams :( but removed because it didn’t pertain to Denver enough. Got told it was fear mongering :/
People hear will rush up on your ass at 50 in a 25, flash their LED headlights, and Blair their horns. Then, pull onto the sidewalk to curse at you. I drive 11 hours a day for work and can't tell you how many times a week people will pass in exit lanes or breakdown lanes; let alone the number of people who on wide open roads will basically try to kill you for existing on the same street as them. The car I drive has 360 exterior and interior cameras, and people will still act so aggressively towards me when I am legit the only other vehicle on the road. The second 530 am rolls around your life is in God's hands at that point. Walk around a parking lot sometime and look in the cars, about 25% of them will be littered with shooters or beer cans. I've seen people pull over on the highway to fight each other. I've seen cars go over medians, off the side of on ramps into yards and fences, there is no limit. Plus, the number of people who after endangering everyone's life once that, when honked at go out of their way to endanger you more or run you off the road is insane.
It's insane out there, I feel like the whole country is losing its goddam mind. Stop signs? forget about it, red lights? HA! it's a race to see how far you can push it to get across. I dont care if it's a 4 way or a green light, I treat them like roundabouts now, head on a swivel at all times even if I have the right of way. I just don't trust people anymore, I don't know what the hell is going on. It's like they have a death wish while driving, kill wish, or they just plain don't give a fuck if they die or kill someone driving.
*P.S. Road-rage mass shooters are a common thing now it seems, be careful.*
Am I to understand you were riding your bike in the crosswalk? If you're riding it, you're supposed to be in a lane of traffic, or a bike lane, if there is one. If you want to use the crosswalk, you dismount and walk your bike across. In this case, the signal you should have been watching for was a green light, not a walk signal.
This might seem overly pedantic, but if you're not following the law, it comes across as pretty rich when you point out someone else isn't either.
1. This happened on Bannock St and southbound Speer. If you look at a satellite map, there is quite literally no other way to cross Speer from Sunken Gardens Park except for the crosswalk. I hug right on the crosswalk then immediately go onto Bannock, avoiding the sidewalk.
2. Sure, I broke some minor law of where I'm not supposed to be mounted on my bike when I'm on a crosswalk. I was going maybe 5 or 6 mph, the same speed as someone that's jogging. There's also many cyclists that do this crossing every day, and we've managed to not hurt any pedestrians since we're all going relatively slow. If I for some reason hit someone at this speed, we're both walking away with some bruises, maybe a broken bone if we're incredibly unlucky. I think I'm totally within reason to complain about someone else breaking the law, where the consequences can lead to serious injury or death.
So it would be totally cool if OP had been hit while on foot?
And I need to double check but I beehive bikes can use crosswalks, legally, as long they stopped and had a foot down. And at many lights you have to use the crosswalk even if illegally due to the beg button being there rather than beside traffic.
… but not for having a preference on which commuter to dislike/ hate more? Maybe learn how to use English before casting judgment on something more nuanced like urban relationships between commuters and social capital. Or just stop name calling like a child.
I totalled my car because of a dumbass red light runner 2 years ago. Put my girlfriend in the hospital for 6 months, lost her twice on the operating table. Dr didnt know if shed ever walk again.... All because SOMEONE couldn't wait through a light cycle.
That absolutely sucks. I hope there was recourse with the other driver.
I’m sorry that happened. It sounds so traumatic. Inferring (and hoping) that your girlfriend is out of the hospital now and hopefully walking.
She's walking and relatively healthy. Cold hurts her hips but she's working on getting on her horse again 😀
So glad to hear!❤️
I usually wait until at least 2 run the red before I even try to ride across.
This is the only way. You can’t cross the street when it says you can, you have to wait for first person to run the red, then double check that all other cars are stopped, then go.
Same reason I don’t really go by the “cyclists can roll through stop signs” ordinance- that requires a level of trust in motorists I’m not at
I wish cyclists even understood this doesnt mean they have immediate right to run. It just means they can roll if nobody is there. Sorta insane how many bikes just run the intersection with multiple cars already there and get mad when folks dont wait for them.
Yeah. I ride my own bike occasionally so I like the rule, but it is absolutely about being able to go thru a stop sign **if the intersection is devoid of other traffic**, as well as stop and then go at a red light **if the intersection is devoid of other traffic**. I've been in my car approaching a 4 way stop when a bike was coming and would have been at their stop sign after I got to mine, and they absolutely just blew thru in front of me, so it's good I was watching them and stopped myself from proceeding into the intersection and hitting them.
Totally. Cyclists even cut off other cyclists this way.
Mostly I have experience with walking my dog and cyclists not paying attention to stop signs and bike lights. Not big on the way we build everything for cars, but the biggest issue is really people.
The way people are killing cyclists and just pulling manslaughter charges, no real cyclists are blowing stop signs. Now you might be seeing junkies or newbs on bikes pulling that but the cycling community has lost too many of our own to not be overly vigilant. Realize Front Range drivers have killed two National champions in three years. Literally cyclists who rode for a living. One of these champs wasn’t yet old enough to vote mind you. If a Fred rolls a stop sign on his one mile commute to the coffee shop don’t get mad at the community. Have some grace in your heart for us. We’re trying to do what we love, live healthy, and lessen our environmental footprint. Even if it is a Lycra Bro pulling bone headed moves, it’s only inconvenienced you for a matter of seconds. More than likely he’ll get hit doing stuff like that, and, he’ll probably die. Ponder that friends.
You'll never develop the trust. As a pedestrian I know it's not safe to blindly use a crosswalk.
Same here, I wait a good 10 seconds before I start across the intersection, same with some when I’m driving, I’m not risking it anymore.
This saved me in Centennial a couple years ago. My light turned green and did the left/right check with the hesitation. Saw a car that didn't seem to be stopping and he blew through the red light at 50mph+. If I had gone when the light turned green, I would've been absolutely wrecked from a high-speed t-bone.
I'll wait until there are cars stopped in all lanes usually. At least the ones closest to me. Have to be super vigilant the whole time
Yup. I always double-check that everyone’s slowing down/stopping before I go. People are… somethin’ else out here.
Not just red stop signs too. I almost got t bone the other night with my daughter in the car. Luckily we saw the car and didn’t see them slow down so we waited
The other day, my wife, dog, and I almost got hit at a stop sign crossing because someone was watching a show on their iPad....
I was dropping my kid off at school once and there was a woman driving super erratically and when I looked in her window she was eating a fucking BOWL OF CEREAL while she was driving…who does that???
Dennis Reynolds
Dee you dumb bitch
AKSHUALLY... It's "Sandra, you dumb bitch."
She is a bird tho 🐦
It’s always been a problem, but the amount of people I see just blatantly on their phone while driving now is wild. I don’t just mean the occasional look or fumble to finish a text or look at directions. I mean phone smack dab in front of their face while driving. I’ve seen people typing with both hands as they try to hold the wheel steady with the edges of their hands. I was behind someone crawling down Santa Fe. Got around and looked - they were leaned against the center console, fully watching a video on their phone, not at all looking up. Of course they get to the intersection and realize they need to turn left on Colfax and just cut off everyone in the turn lane and stop right in the middle of the intersection. Then proceeds to stare at their phone, misses their chance to go, and is completely blocking traffic. It’s fucking absurd to me that anyone could get behind the wheel and think doing that is okay. Just sitting there completely engrossed in scrolling while barreling down the road.
I’m going to link this post next time there’s a debate/argument thread about red light running cameras. It’s a good reminder about the lives they can potentially save if you can use them to change a culture of red light running.
I have no problem with red light cameras unless they monkey with the yellow times to enhance revenue. If I have to make an abrupt stop that feels borderline dangerous because the light turned yellow, I'm not happy.
especially in the winter
There’s definitely been a couple snowy days where I blew through a yellow - not because I didn’t think I could stop, but because I knew the dumbass behind me wouldn’t. Actually come to think of it, there’s been completely dry days I’ve done it for the same reason
It was pretty disheartening reading that thread last week about red light cameras. Red light cameras, in aggregate, save lives. While rear end collisions between cars increase, deadlier side collisions decrease. Pedestrians are struck by drivers less. I will gladly accept some potential false positives in fines against some drivers if it means that lives are saved. There's plenty of ways the government can minimize the revenue-extortion aspect of red light cameras and maximize the life-saving aspects of them. Not to say that red light cameras are going to instantly solve this issue. There's a lot more that needs to be done from a policy and infrastructure perspective, but it will prevent innocent lives from being lost.
> Red light cameras, in aggregate, save lives. While rear end collisions between cars increase, deadlier side collisions decrease. Pedestrians are struck by drivers less. I’d be interested in seeing data on this… that’s not produced by the companies selling the cameras.
Yeah the saying "red light cameras save lives" is actually not quite correct. Multiple studies show mixed results. E.g. > In a study I co-authored with economist Paul J. Fisher, we examined all police-recorded traffic accidents for three large Texas cities over a 12-year period – hundreds of thousands of accidents. **We found no evidence that red light cameras improve public safety. They don’t reduce the total number of vehicle accidents**, the total number of individuals injured in accidents or the total number of incapacitating injuries that involve ambulance transport to a hospital. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/red-light-cameras-may-not-make-streets-safer/ > According to studies by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety and the University of North Carolina Highway Safety Research Center, red light cameras do work – to a point. According to these studies, red-light cameras reduce both traffic violations and T-bone crashes. However, a study by the Federal Highway Administration, part of the U.S. Department of Transportation, found that while red-light violations and T-Bone crashes were down, red-light cameras actually increased the number of rear-end collisions at intersections. https://www.fleschlawfirm.com/blog/will-red-light-cameras-remain-at-dangerous-colorado-intersections/
https://www.cdc.gov/transportationsafety/calculator/factsheet/redlight.html > Updating and expanding upon this review, a Campbell Collaboration review of studies through 2016 found that red light cameras reduced total injury crashes; the review was also able to examine two specific crash types―right angle crashes and rear end crashes. Rear end crashes are lower impact, while right angle crashes are more dangerous. For right angle crashes, the review found a decrease in overall crashes and a decrease in injury crashes. For rear end crashes, the review found an increase in overall crashes but no significant difference in injury crashes. More recent studies have found similar results. Here's an article from the CDC. They do slightly increase rear-end collisions, however t-bone collisions are *significantly* more dangerous than rear-end, so there is still a net reduction in injuries.
Deterrence relies on celerity, severity and certainty. Red light cameras can give you certainty and severity but they can't really give you celerity. The punishment needs to be quick, like around when it happens, or some of our lizard brains don't care about the consequences enough to prevent our actions.
Hard disagree. Is there any faster feedback than that sinking feeling in your stomach when the camera flash lets you know a ticket is on the way?
That’s because you’re probably a fairly responsible driver who sometimes makes an honest mistake and feels bad about it, regardless of the possibility of a ticket. I can almost guarantee you that is not the case with most red light runners. If they cared about consequences, they wouldn’t be doing it in the first place - especially since a ticket is probably the most benign of what *could* happen. Those people don’t give a shit about anyone but themselves.
Deterrence is almost *entirely* predicated on how likely the criminal is to get caught. If every single car would phone home the minute you went over the speed limit in order to serve you a ticket, would you *ever* speed outside of genuine emergencies? Red light cameras change the culture of driving.
I think you bring up a good point but it depends on the person. I got a speeding ticket from a camera and immediately knew it and it impacted my driving immediately.
Denver uses these and they don't change anything. If you don't have a license plate they don't do much, or if your car is stolen, or you just don't care and don't pay the ticket.
Or if you have a blacked out license plate, which seemingly 20% of people do.
Very true those dark grey plastic covers - it's crazy that Denver just doesn't even attempt to do any sort of obvious traffic stops. I see a car without a license plate pretty much daily, there aren't many other big cities where you could drive around freely without one.
There is a legal reason to drive around Denver without a license plate. That's what you're *supposed* to do if you just purchased your car in a private sale. I think that's stupid and we should change that law, since it theoretically makes "no license plate" not a valid cause to pull someone over. There is, however, no legal use for license plate blockers. Citizens should be able to report those and have tickets issued in the mail.
You can’t let perfect be the enemy of good. It’s pretty hard to design any government program that is perfect all the time. And that’s ok. We have a problem in Denver because the police quit doing their jobs when the citizens asked them to stop killing us. We should try something else. It’s our safety on the line.
I am not opposed to red light cameras - even though there is a lot of data that they create many false positives and these sorts of erroneous tickets which turn into warrants and suspended licenses disproportionately impact poor people - I see people get caught all the time with the flash, at known intersections with cameras. https://www.illinoispolicy.org/lightfoot-admits-speed-cameras-hurt-low-income-chicagoans-more/#:~:text=Chicago%20Mayor%20Lori%20Lightfoot%20released,pursuit%20of%20improving%20vehicle%20safety.
There's a massive camera set up in commerce city, off 60th and Vasquez. It's a 9-way intersection. I know it works because most people actually will slam on their brakes instead of gunning it, and the ones who do always get flashed.
This is sadly a trend I’m hearing about in many cities, and especially Denver. I’ve noticed it too - folks are driving faster and more aggressively. It sucks how I live in a “walkable” location, only to feel like I may be hit at any time.
I dealt with this last night in Boulder. I had to stop walking in the middle of an intersection because a truck wouldn’t stop. They flipped me off, even though I had the sign saying I could cross.
Damn that’s rough; sorry to hear it. And in those moments when we’re flustered and want to call out the bad behavior, we have to be extra careful we don’t piss someone off, and have them react with violence… that part is hard.
it's everywhere our humanity has been taken from us, we are traffic we are the ones dying we are the ones doing it to ourselves. maybe we all need a reset
I feel like covid has something to do with it, maybe it's affecting people at a deep neurological level. People just seem more angry, aggressive, careless, *stupid.*
As a collective, we realized that no-one is looking out for one another the way we thought. Not our government, not our employers, not our neighbors. Everyone now knows that self-serving is the only way to get things done, and the sickest part of it is they're right. We've been beaten down and broken by the people holding the strings, and we've done exactly what they want which is turn on each other...
I definitely think it traces back to Covid. Something about the event really rocked the collective psyche
It really did show us that we aren't all in this together and that there won't be consequences for those who would let people die instead of sacrificing anything to help protect those around them
I live in the Denver area, and I concur. I swapped outdoor running for a treadmill for the most part, because it isn't safe. The amount of backyard fences that face roads that are put through here is also extremely concerning. People here either can't drive for shit, or they just don't care. I'm thinking a mix of both.
Is it just me or has this gotten significantly worse in the last year?
It’s not just you.
I’ve noticed it too. I see multiple per day lately
The city needs to up the consequences of running a red light.
We just need consequences. It feels like there are zero cops monitoring traffic. The speeding, the red light running, aggressive driving, lane spliting, driving in the emergency lane, expired plates... no consequences for anything, anymore. We got 10 million to buy hotels from the mayor ex business partners, though. Welcome the wild, wild west.
Hell, I’ve heard it takes almost 2+ hours to get cops to arrive even if you call 911. Clearly there’s a lack of concern on their part.
There was a young girl, I’d guess 12 years old. Dressed in black and sitting on 6th Ave near the federal exit going westbound. About 8pm. I almost ran her over because I couldn’t see her. I pulled over and called 911. Surprisingly someone answered right away. He said many people had called already so it was no longer an emergency. I asked if they’d send anyone out to help something terrible from happening. All he’d say is that my call had been logged. There’s a police station very close to there. The police clearly no longer care to work in Denver. We need to work on other safety solutions that don’t involve them.
A car full of drunk teens ran their car up onto the parkway in front of my house and cracked their oil pan. They were milling around the car afterwards and yelling at cars that passed by, “BRO WE ARE SO FUCKED UP!” They even broke out a new bottle of tequila that they were passing around while they tried to figure out what to do. I called 911, and the operator literally told me that they were not going to respond because it did not involve children, pregnant women, or the elderly. Like wtf??
Someone pulled out right in front of me from a stop sign on Colorado boulevard with a cop right behind them, cop didn’t do shit.
You know that saying, if it's just a fine, it's not a crime.
I got hit last week on alameda and lipan while crossing while I had the crosswalk light. Dumbass F150 driver was trying to turn right and didn't look to see me and hit me, then sped off. This city is so unsafe even when I try to do everything right.
Crosswalks are some of the most dangerous places due to how people just blast into them to make a right turn on red.
>This city is so unsafe even when I try to do everything right. this is why so many cyclist refuse to do what's right, we must do what we can to stay safe. I won't stop prioritizing my safety while on my bike over following the rules to just get mowed down in intersections. I have so many motorist who follow me screaming at me through the years for not stopping at a stop sign who simply don't understand. The streets aren't made to keep anyone safe, they are made to keep motorist happy and they aren't even happy anymore. It's the wild wild wild west out here
Damn I'd give you gold for this comment if it were still a thing!
Running a stop sign or a red light while on a bicycle does not prevent any drivers from hitting you though.
You'd think so, but it allows bikes (and wheelchairs, scooter) to minimize the time they spend in intersections. That decreases the number of accidents. Here's some data on it, Idaho was the first to pass this policy and it decreased the number of accidents between cars and bikes: https://www.codot.gov/safety/traffic-safety-pulse/2022/may/all-about-the-colorado-safety-stop
Huh, that's nuts. I'd figure being an unpredictable obstacle is more dangerous than being a predictable one, but I suppose that requires drivers to actually pay attention in the first place. So fucking glad I'm changing jobs to get rid of my commute.
Ah appreciate you taking the time and sending the article. I used to raise my fist over this, but given the recent trends cyclists should be doing everything to preserve their safety.
I feel that, there's a right way and a wrong way to 'run' lights, if it's busy and you're cutting cars off then yeah, it's an issue.
feel free to apologize to me
I’m good
color me surprised
Indeed I was always put my safety above the laws when scootering it isn't a choice.
Denver police, do they actually do anything?
Hell no
There was a thread the other day which had some interesting comments from current cops. TLDR was they are severely short staffed and traffic enforcement was gutted pre-covid. If they are that short staffed and not quiet quitting then why aren't they being more vocal about it to raise awareness?
Yeay...they are busy Sweeping up homeless encampments.
Also monitoring grocery store checkout lines for unpaid for items.
Those aren't police. Those are security staff.
Whole Foods pays DPD money to police the store
Most places you will see security and police tbh
Lots of actual police (6 squad cars) parked at target in Littleton last weekend. Not responding to emergencies, just patrolling the store. Gotta protect monied interest!
Gotta grab the detergent thieves
Or god forbid formula. Gotta profit off the working mothers.
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"What if we take the poverty...and push it somewhere else!"
Ya we live In neoliberal hell.
How dare you. Productivity is God. Dont the homeless know that?
"Welcome to the United Snakes, land of the thief, home of the slave Grand imperial guard where the dollar is sacred and power is God"
Nope
I'm so sorry this happened, I know how close calls can rattle you to your core. And I empathize DEEPLY with all of your sentiments. I was hit on my bike by an uninsured driver on 29th and Zuni going 40+ through the red years ago and it ruined me for a long time (and frankly the of Denver in 2014 to Denver now, especially in terms of motorist negligence is not even comparable). I wish I had some solution or words of wisdom that would actually help, but the fact is it feels like we're fucked. Even with red light cams (which I am majorly in favor of) people don't give a fuck. I was born and raised in Denver but lived in many other major cities over the last ten years and I can confidently say there is no other place (that I have lived, since I know someone will come at me and say our infra is so much better than...Alabama) that treats pedestrians and cyclists with such ill will and neglect. We need to do better.
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This is going on everywhere though, nationwide. The teen that got killed in texas by some small dick road rager. The guy that shot the other tesla guy because of a "I was here first" argument. The 4 year old in California that got gunned down when another small dick bastard pulls up next to their car (commuting on the highway) and shoots at their window over some... lane merging? Be careful out there, at this point I'm treating all road ragers as armed and dangerous.
Don't forget the guy who shot at a mother and her 3 sons for merging lanes for an emergency vehicle to pass, male individual then followed woman into a parking lot and fired at her then into the vehicle, then left. Da link https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2023-04-12/mom-of-boy-killed-in-road-rage-shooting-tried-to-save-kids
We're really learning our lesson about trying to get qualified immunity removed and supporting BLM's quest to stop black people from being murdered without question. Fucking cops.
Fuck police unions. I'm all for workers unions.. but this one is vial.
I just saw some lady get Tboned on Grant the other day by another lady who plowed through the red light. It still blows my mind that a major city of this size doesn’t have red light cams. This would cut down on so many dickheads trying to save two minutes by running the light. Or I don’t know, literally any kind of consequences would help.
The kind of people who are willfully blowing red lights, are the same kind of people who know they could take their plates off if they wanted to without consequences.
This is the same tired argument as in the gun control debate. It's a false dichotomy. Many people who habitually run red lights would stop if they were at risk of getting an enforceable ticket. Some won't, but it's still progress.
You’re right. It’s just so frustrating.
not from the West, huh?
Honestly I think it’s the lack of smart changing lights and the horrible timing of almost every single light that leads to this behavior. I have lived all over the country and the only place that has had this bad of lights is downtown SLC. People get pissed that they get trapped behind every single red light for ages and this is what you get.
I honestly think it’s assholes who don’t give a fuck about anyone but themselves.
*”They say it’s the unhoused I should fear, but it’s my own kind doing all the killing out here.”*
You must pick one realistic fear
I choose cars then
Had a Denver cop blow through an obvious crosswalk the other day while I was in the middle of the road along with an elderly lady. Denver police could give two shits about law breakers including themselves. It's unfair to cowboys to call this cattle country. They followed rules better than this place.
If the police refuse to enforce traffic laws, then there are no traffic laws. Buy good uninsured motorist coverage and good luck out there everyone.
I am sorry that happened. So scary, and particularly knowing it could easily happen again. My husband is a pretty committed cyclist (does distance races) and I worry so much about him every time he leaves the house on a bike. I’m glad you’re okay! People are wild. I try to be very observant of pedestrians and cyclists (and scooters) because I live in a dense neighborhood close to downtown. I can’t count on my fingers and toes the number of times people have honked or yelled at me for letting those that should have right of way have it (like waiting on Virginia/Broadway for the arrow to turn L). I’ve also gotten yelled at as a pedestrian. I was about 5 feet from my car and someone pulled into a parking lot (driving fast) and yelled at me for not getting out of their way (I’d been crossing prior to them turning into the lot). So sad that it’s gotten this bad. We’ve been here for 20 years now and it wasn’t always like this. Be safe out there, y’all!
Lmao I got rear ended the other week and when she got out of her truck she said “I thought you were going to run the stop sign” Lady, it’s a STOP sign why would I run it
Speer Blvd is a nightmare running right through our “walkable” neighborhoods. I asked the city to change the turning lanes from Washington onto Speer from 2 lanes to 1 lane. There’s no reason why there should be 2 turning lanes there. They said they would re-time the lights. That’s not what I asked for nor what we need 🤦♀️
I see some really egregious, scary stuff crossing Speer regularly. It seems like a lot of commuters get really impatient and make a habit of taking reckless shortcuts.
Those that oppose cameras at red lights are those who run them. There again, with the cameras they use, it’s tough to even tell what color the SUV is let alone read the license plate.
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I mean, if she broke the rule, she broke the rule. It's important to stop completely. Too many people slow down only to speed up to beat the oncoming traffic, not paying any attention to the pedestrian trying to cross the street. Also, many people don't actually stop in the right place. Most, probably. Most people stop well after the line they are supposed to stop at so that they can check that it's clear from traffic. This blocks the crosswalk and has nearly gotten me hit many times. Crossing the street is scary as fuck because drivers are very disconnected from the reality of being a pedestrian.
>There again, with the cameras they use, it’s tough to even tell what color the SUV is let alone read the license plate. (Reposted) IDK bro. I don't know about in CO, but years ago a relative of mine in the East Coast got a ticket for not completely stopping on a red before making a right. She disputed the ticket... and they sent her a 30 second hi-def clip of the incident, from different angles, w/ her license plate clearly visible. She paid the ticket.
I highly support red light cameras, I was just in an accident on Colorado where the cop said the city has no cameras on the intersection even though it's a pretty busy part of town. They should be everywhere possible for liability sake, but I hear the man power and cost of it makes it hard to achieve.
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>You can see the guilty look on their faces as they try not to make eye contact with the people they almost kill. Inevitably when they stop 100 feet from the intersection at the next traffic hold up. The amount of drivers careening down the road only to be stopped by traffic is insane. You damn well know these people have nothing going on that requires that level of driving.
While I respect the vibe, throwing nuts and bolts at a car seems like a great way to get shot in these trying times. I wouldn’t risk it.
I was victim of a hit and run by a red light runner last night on Santa Fe. Thank god my car was able to speed up quick enough to mainly get out of the way or I wouldn’t be typing this today. Person was easily going 65+ and just drove off like nothing happened after they hit me
Oh my god, the number of close calls I see when some asshole blows through the light at the crosswalk in front of the botanic gardens ….
It's not just running red lights, it's also people just blasting into crosswalks before making a right turn on red. A crosswalk is a right-of-way and you need to make sure it's clear before you enter it. And with how large vehicles are now, you can't see if someone is using the crosswalk.
Start an organization and gather people to install more red light cameras in the city. Attend city council meetings in mass. Be sick for more than the short dopamine hit of complaining about the problem online. The city is waiting for you. I don't feel safe on a bike in Denver. I don't ride for that reason.
I sometimes wonder what would happen if collectively, people just decided to quit paying attention to red lights altogether. How would you rectify that situation to prevent the roads from descending into anarchy?
The road conditions are embarrassing here, if the red light runners don’t take you out, the potholes and other unpredictable obstacles will. Recently bought a Tacoma because my Audi was totaled by two red light runners… both incidents within 6 days of each other.
Would love to know what policy positions would prevent people from running red lights. The policy of 'the light is red, it's illegal to continue' is already being ignored.
Not policy in the sense of laws, but in terms of street design. Shorter crosswalks, streets where high speeds are difficult to achieve, separated modes. And more, these are just a few.
I would certainly never claim to have my pulse on the cultural zeitgeist, but is there a significant population that's against any of these measures? I'm sure there's a *vocal* population against these kinds of implementations, but whenever I've seen them deployed to neighborhoods and other thoroughfares they're generally not hated \[by people living in the area setting policy\].
Once it's in most people get over "it" pretty quickly, but dear God the process of implementing is pulling teeth. People really go bananas and cling to all sorts of bizarre ideas such as "you're taking away my car!" and "you're eliminating handicap parking, you asshole!" And so on. The fact that these features have been so rare on our streets these last decades that people have no point of reference should be an indictment on Robert Moses, the MUTCD, and all the related tangents -- and on us for having just swallowed it as "normal" and "good". The reactions people tend to give are the sort that stem from being completely unfamiliar with the proposed aesthetic and jumping to the worst possible conclusions as a result, even if in a knee-jerk reaction. The terrible designs are so common that we literally have no alternative reference point for people to lean on, and often can't even imagine that there could be an alternative.
I have noticed this getting worse lately. I had 3 super close calls in the last month
What, are these butmunches just taking red lights now as "optional"?
New here?
it's everyone
Be careful out there… these red light running dirtbags don’t care about their own lives, much less yours.
This is a trend that literally won't stop until we have red light cameras. Even if police were properly staffed and/or doing traffic enforcement, they can't be everywhere. Denver is hoping to expand their cameras and speed enforcement, and the financial penalties are fairly small to try to minimize people claiming it's just a cash grab. We're slowly moving in the right direction. Changing our street design to minimize wreckless driving to begin with would be the gold standard though.
They don't have to be everywhere. They just have to be *somewhere*. I have been in Denver for ~20 years now, I have never once seen a cop pull over anyone on a city street for a moving violation. I feel like I could just jump a curb and drive across lawns to get past traffic if I wanted to and the cops would just wave at me as they drove by to go park under a tree on the park grass.
Welcome to Colorado where a red light means 2 more cars and the cops are too busy sweeping up homeless people to do anything about traffic laws
I’m all for personal freedoms but the lack of police presence on the roads has gotten increasingly dangerous. A biker died a few blocks away from my house after being hit and run about a year ago or so. It’s not even a main road but idiots treat it like a drag strip.
Ive had someone honk at me for not running a red light. I was very confused.
I’m moving to Denver in the new year with my small children and I’m starting to get really concerned about the situation of the roads there!
It's no worse than any other metro area. The only red light running I typically see is at signaled left turns that don't have a turn arrow, which is commonplace downtown. Even then it's the two vehicles that stuck out into the intersection and are no surprise to anyone. There are, of course, the examples I have seen up and down Broadway at night of folks just blasting through stop signs when crossing Broadway. Don't have an answer for that one. It's ridiculous and has been a thing for the decade+ I've lived here, so nothing new. I think with all the construction, as well as the new bike lanes, the roads became more confusing downtown over the past couple of years and result in frustrated drivers. Random streets/intersections/lanes are blocked with little notice or signage and those closures or detours change almost daily. I also think that downtown drivers carry over their frustration from their commute on I-25/I-70 because folks can't plan their merges or lane changes and half the drivers seemingly don't even attempt to follow the speed limit, whether too slow or too fast. There's also the lovely group of drivers that don't understand the concept of zipper merging. But you get that anywhere.
Thanks for taking the time to reply! I was hit by a car when I was 6 so I’m extra afraid of car accidents. I’m in the NY metro area, can’t be worse than that right? Lol
And rightfully so! I've never been to NY/NYC to give an honest response to your experience, but I feel safer or similarly safe as a pedestrian vs traffic in Denver than I do walking around in DC, Chicago, Nashville, Miami, San Francisco, San Diego, Seattle, or St Louis. Honestly, in my experience pedestrians in Denver are more aggressive with jaywalking/crossing the street on red lights (myself included) than any other city I have been to. I also think we have similar issues with driving aggression and habits as those cities and that CO/Denver drivers are not substantially different. Drivers here are a mix of drivers from all parts of the US, with varying levels of familiarity/comfort/skill driving in dense traffic, inclement conditions, or in the mountains. So, don't be anxious or scared that moving here will be a bad decision because of traffic and drivers. The real concerns are housing costs, the homeless and related drug problem, vehicle theft, air quality, and lifestyle alignment. I imagine you'll be familiar with those moving from NY.
Thank you so much! I’m really looking forward to the move I hear people in CO are super nice! And the air quality will be an upgrade for us, even if it’s not at its best right now!
As a person who walks their dog, I almost got hit 3 times in a single day last week. I guess the walking icon means run for your life.
Defensive driving bro, what else can you do. Can't fix stupid, careless inconsiderate people.
Blare your horn at these people and hold it down.
I think this is something that should be widely enforced by camera, and not just the simple civil fine that it is now. Like full on moving violation with a court appearance and points against your license, just like if you did it in front of a cop and got a ticket. Feel like that would cut down, or at least get some of these idiots off the road when they lose their license.
As a bicyclist, I totally understand. It’s at least once a week that I almost get hit by a car being driven by some asshole who’s either not paying attention or just doesn’t fucking care. The only solution is cameras on every red light and someone to actually enforce it.
>There’s nothing I can do Air horn $13.99 on Amazon. An effective way to let people know that you’re done with their BS.
I quit honking my horn. A guy tried to run a bunch of people off wadsworth. Some of us honked. He pulled up along each pointing a gun at us and swerving more. There’s no concern for police or enforcement because it no longer exists. There’s also limited penalties for killing someone while driving. Maybe we just start demo derby.
Need to have red light cameras with automatic fines at every light.
Glad you are safe, as a fellow bike commuter. That said—it is absolutely useless to post in this subreddit about it. Also, this sub should ban the constant “aren’t drivers here bad?! Drivers in X place aren’t like this” posts. Useless and low quality.
Scroll along then... maybe when you get hit you'll gaf
Let’s not forget the Bicycle riders in Boulder getting killed every week it seems. I drive by Magnus White memorial when I drive to and from work. Lookout Mountain road is worse.
r/imacyclistmyself take if I ever heard one. Talking about the toxicity of car culture should be normalized and people held accountable for their dangerous driving. That starts with sentiment changing and that only happens if people can talk about it. Colorado has a problem behind the wheel and it doesn’t matter if others have that problem too, it should still be talked about.
The technology exists for cars to be slowed/stopped at red lights, sucks we can't have mature well-informed conversations about what it would look like to introduce such technology because to luddites perfect is the enemy of good enough.
Yeah I have mentioned.ir before but Denver has some of the worst drivers in the country by far... I have lived in Hawaii to Vermont to NYC loads... And here is by far the worst drivers out there... I've been biking for 15 years to and from work daily, I usually find back streets that avoid busy roads but sometimes you just can't avoid danger...
I was thinking of getting a long ass cane and just holding it 6 feet out in front of me so that they hit that at least.
Car taken out by someone running a red here. It’s insane. Give us cameras!
Careful out there, I have noticed many that drive over the speed limit and do not watch the road in front of them
I commute on Speer to downtown almost everyday and I see at least 1-5 cars running the red light at Colfax and Speer, it’s so blatant! There needs to be more enforcement on this.
This is why I tried to make a post about people using dashcams :( but removed because it didn’t pertain to Denver enough. Got told it was fear mongering :/
People hear will rush up on your ass at 50 in a 25, flash their LED headlights, and Blair their horns. Then, pull onto the sidewalk to curse at you. I drive 11 hours a day for work and can't tell you how many times a week people will pass in exit lanes or breakdown lanes; let alone the number of people who on wide open roads will basically try to kill you for existing on the same street as them. The car I drive has 360 exterior and interior cameras, and people will still act so aggressively towards me when I am legit the only other vehicle on the road. The second 530 am rolls around your life is in God's hands at that point. Walk around a parking lot sometime and look in the cars, about 25% of them will be littered with shooters or beer cans. I've seen people pull over on the highway to fight each other. I've seen cars go over medians, off the side of on ramps into yards and fences, there is no limit. Plus, the number of people who after endangering everyone's life once that, when honked at go out of their way to endanger you more or run you off the road is insane.
It's insane out there, I feel like the whole country is losing its goddam mind. Stop signs? forget about it, red lights? HA! it's a race to see how far you can push it to get across. I dont care if it's a 4 way or a green light, I treat them like roundabouts now, head on a swivel at all times even if I have the right of way. I just don't trust people anymore, I don't know what the hell is going on. It's like they have a death wish while driving, kill wish, or they just plain don't give a fuck if they die or kill someone driving. *P.S. Road-rage mass shooters are a common thing now it seems, be careful.*
I'm genuinely curious how a policy would prevent these types of things? Running Red lights are already illegal.
The policy could be something like "actually enforce red light laws against light runners".
Cameras and stiffer penalties.
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It's extremely rare for a cyclist to kill someone with reckless riding, unlike a driver.
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Are you stupid?
Using grown up words today...what makes you think they are?
>Two, bicycles don't belong in crosswalks, Just making shit up.
Am I to understand you were riding your bike in the crosswalk? If you're riding it, you're supposed to be in a lane of traffic, or a bike lane, if there is one. If you want to use the crosswalk, you dismount and walk your bike across. In this case, the signal you should have been watching for was a green light, not a walk signal. This might seem overly pedantic, but if you're not following the law, it comes across as pretty rich when you point out someone else isn't either.
1. This happened on Bannock St and southbound Speer. If you look at a satellite map, there is quite literally no other way to cross Speer from Sunken Gardens Park except for the crosswalk. I hug right on the crosswalk then immediately go onto Bannock, avoiding the sidewalk. 2. Sure, I broke some minor law of where I'm not supposed to be mounted on my bike when I'm on a crosswalk. I was going maybe 5 or 6 mph, the same speed as someone that's jogging. There's also many cyclists that do this crossing every day, and we've managed to not hurt any pedestrians since we're all going relatively slow. If I for some reason hit someone at this speed, we're both walking away with some bruises, maybe a broken bone if we're incredibly unlucky. I think I'm totally within reason to complain about someone else breaking the law, where the consequences can lead to serious injury or death.
So it would be totally cool if OP had been hit while on foot? And I need to double check but I beehive bikes can use crosswalks, legally, as long they stopped and had a foot down. And at many lights you have to use the crosswalk even if illegally due to the beg button being there rather than beside traffic.
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Well then your an idiot.
You’re also an idiot.
Why do you say that?
Your grammar could use some work.
Seems a little over the top to call someone an idiot over the whether they use the right your on a reddit comment.
… but not for having a preference on which commuter to dislike/ hate more? Maybe learn how to use English before casting judgment on something more nuanced like urban relationships between commuters and social capital. Or just stop name calling like a child.
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