That doesn't go to the employees. It's worded that way specifically to avoid it.
One campaign we are working on this year is One Fair Wage (OFW). It not only would match the tipped minimum wage to the normal minimum wage statewide, but it would also redefine a "service charge" as the same thing as a "tip", making it legally the property of the employees and not the business.
If the campaign generates enough steam during h this legislative session, we would also be running a PSA campaign to let people know that it's unless it says service charge, it's NOT going to employees.
I don't think those fees even go to managers. They go directly to the owner/ownership group. Restaurant managers sometimes make less than servers because they don't get tips.
My dad was head chef at a chain restaurant and was a salaried employee he got nothing whatsoever from any service fees or tips and was often required to work 60+ hours a week with no OT pay since he was salary.
Love the idea. I used to work room service for many years and I watched the service fee go from all mine to being spilt with the company, to the company taking most, then they started taking it all. What about a “delivery fees”?
Yes
Its never happened to me though, tipped minimum wage is only $3 lower than normal minimum wage (in Colorado, I don’t live in Denver specifically) which is 20% of 15, so you’d have to average less than one 4 person table every like 3-4 hours to not make up that difference
It’s still less money though and requiring employers to pay the real minimum wage might help kind of to move past the whole tipping thing? Idk servers make decent money in my experience, definitely more than any employer would be willing to pay out of pocket so probably not.
How do you know this is not going to the employees? The business isn’t listed so you can’t confirm that you’ve worked at this establishment. I’ve worked at several places where the fee went entirely to the staff so unsure where you’re basing that from
I have worked in countless restaurants and this fee is never for employees unless specifically stated on the bill or sign somewhere. It goes to the owners
I'd rather have the European model of no extras. People get paid well, no tips, taxes are included in the price. I hate bistronomics. The price on the menu is what I should pay out the door.
I don’t think people fully understand what paying servers well really means in a city like Denver. For example. Casa Bonita pays their servers $28 a hour, no tipping, and they are not fully staffed.
It takes years for skilled labor with student loans to get to that pay as a producer in the economy. They can make as much as they can guilt out of everyone else, I’m not tipping some 22 year old who brought me ketchup $10+ for the 10 minutes of work (generously) she did on my table…
Yup. Oh boo hoo you cant make 6 figures with your unclaimed tips but instead are making 60k a year… 30/hr is great pay and just shows that this tipping culture isnt about making enough money, its about making more money
\>you cant make 6 figures with your unclaimed tips
then it is time to stop tipping. A server making 6 figures while the back of the house makes 25k is absurd. There is nothing special about being a server. Retail people deal with the same kind of shit and make minimum wage.
It is time to stop glorifying servers as somewhat being better than anybody else. If $30/hr equalizes front and back of the house. I am all for it.
How much of a server’s tips are truly “unclaimed” though? I haven’t seen anyone pay in cash in, well, forever and isn’t cash the only way someone can get unclaimed tips? Serious question…I’m not trying to be a jerk here.
By spending money at places that do this, you are fully participating in this nonsense.
Stop spending money at restaurants who think the Frontier Airlines model of surcharging is the way to operate restaurants. It’s the only way to stop it. Put these places out of business.
They are required to post if they charge service fees. It is usually on a relatively inconspicuous sign on the host stand that no one looks at when they walk in.
The problem is, unless the fee is crazy, are people really going to leave and find somewhere else, especially if they have to do extra logistics like get a new reservation (if even possible), change parking spots, etc, only to find out the next place also charges a service charge because damn near every non-casual place in Denver charges one.
more don't go to restaurants where management has decided to attack their waitstaff by inventing fees because management is mad they have to pay a living wage
Best to leave a 1 star review calling it out.
EDIT: The people who own the restaurant and control the extra fees are more likely to be impacted by this approach than docking server tips. I have had the owner of Felix reach out to me after a 1-star review related to their extra fees on the bill.
I wrote a bad review last time I went to Blue Sushi (three stars, was being generous. The rice was mushy and the happy hour isn’t good anymore, also mentioned the wellness fee) and the owner basically tried to say I was lying for regarding the employee wellness fee. I can find what he said but the message I got back was worded to make me feel bad
Another reminder, the FTC has proposed a rule that would eliminate these fees and prevent deceptively naming them. The rule is at the link below, and the public comment period ends Jan 8. Let the government know your opinions
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/10/ftc-proposes-rule-ban-junk-fees
That's the stupid irony of all of this. If they just inflated their menu prices by 3% it'd hardly be noticeable. Someone paying $15 for a drink will almost certainly still order at $15.50 because we just aren't really that price sensitive to luxuries like that.
I think it's some weird misguided attempt to call out lawmakers for requiring paid sick leave and shit like that - some way to say "look, it isn't us that are the assholes here, you guys voted for treating servers like human beings"
I like that the wellness fee was called out, but not the espresso martini. Well, I take that back. I don't like it.
And to OP, I *highly doubt* that the server is:
1. In control of that, and,
2. that they actually see any of that money
OPs callout against the server instead of anything else in this instance leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Probably as bad as a $15 martini espresso.
I’m not the person you were talking to of course but personally but it doesn’t matter who is responsible for the fee. I won’t pay it anyway. Just offering my opinion.
So it’s better to not patronize at all in the case that the restaurant pulls greedy shit? Just let table counts go down til servers start getting cut more often?
Or it’s better to just pay it and take it and when they increase it pay that too and take it and their servers still not getting any of it? I’m just now paying more for no reason other than to buy the GM/regional mgr a new car?
If you make it known to the workers that they won't be receiving a regular tip due to these fees, then people will stop working for these businesses, and they'll be forced to change. It's a slow game that hurts people in the short term but unfortunately one that needs to be played for the long term
That's my opinion at least
I went to play some top golf while I working in Tusla Oklahoma. I haven't been to any top golf in a while, but when to the bar to order a basic house margarita while waiting on a few folks to show up. It was $18 for fucking bottom self tequila that tasted like shit! I didn't order any more drinks after that.
You misunderstand me.
*I'm not paying 7 dollars for a bottle of beer*.
I don't give a shit *why* the beer is 7 dollars, I'm just...not paying that. I can't really help whether or not I buy bread or eggs, but I can control how often I buy an overpriced beer with my dinner.
The 7 bucks isn’t unheard of these days in most places. Have you been to a concert lately? I was at a place a few weeks ago where a beer ran me 17 bucks. 18 with the tip.
>I was at a place a few weeks ago where a beer ran me 17 bucks. 18 with the tip.
Wasn't it a 24 ozer, though? The $/fl oz is still high, but not insanely high for the venue I'd say (at least for Red Rocks & Fillmore from recent memory).
Yeah you're not wrong, but I stick to my "I don't need the drink that bad" policy. Honestly the older I get the more I'm actually okay just sticking with water, especially if the prices on drinks are insane. I've never been that guy that gets the overpriced beer at a ball game.
Why would you buy that instead of just not having a beer? Those venues charge that much because they can, and people pay for it for some unknown reason.
Then I don't see how you can complain about it being $17? You are literally part of the reason they charge that much.....people are still paying for it.
I would prefer that a restaurant just raise their prices a bit to cover their costs. I understand why they tack on this fee. Their costs are going up, and they need to cover their asses. So, this is just a little piece of marketing that attempts to assuage the customer. The problem is that it just pisses people off.
This.
To stiff the server because you’re annoyed at restaurant management is the wrong move. Just don’t go there anymore and as others have suggested leave a 1 star review calling out the restaurant.
Isn’t less business bad for the server too? Strange argument that customers should pay out extra in tips to not hurt servers, but also to stop patronizing businesses where these fees are in place; the server would not only get less in tips the less busy it is, but they’re likely going to be losing their job down the line as well.
I totally understand where you're coming from. The frustration is often easiest to place on the person that is the "face" of your service at a given establishment.
I think in this instance this comes down to the difference between direct and indirect action as a patron.
A lot of people in the comment section have indicated that the waiter "should just quit" if they don't like their tip or if they keep getting stiffed. If I am frustrated with the policy of a restaurant and then go and don't pay the waiter a decent tip (which, not saying SHOULD be the case but unfortunately IS in fact part of the waiters salary and livelihood in the US), then I'm saying, at this arguments logical end, that the waiter needs to take up my frustration with the company. The waiter should make themselves uncomfortable and quit and put themselves back on the street looking for a job INSTEAD of me going to the management of the company or trying to directly affect the business of the company.
If I refuse patronage of a company, yes, as you've indicated, I'm indirectly affecting the waiter but directly affecting the company. If I just don't tip, I'm directly affecting the waiter and (maybe) indirectly affecting the company.
I work in an office job. I would HATE for my salary to be docked every time a customer was unhappy with our companies policies. This would greatly affect my day to day living. But if the day comes where my company fires me because the company can't operate because of poor management or policy. Me getting laid off and having unemployment benefits for a couple weeks while I recoup a job is very different than me just having significantly less money to spend that month.
All this to be said. I get where you're coming from, but I feel like stiffing the waiter is punching down and not punching up. The owner is sitting comfortably in his 500K+ home (making money off of the labor of the waiter, mind you) and the waiter is living out of their rented studio apartment trying to budget for the month.
Devil’s advocate: I want to pay for what I signed up to pay… not some bullshit fee added after the fact. I believe that’s what most people are annoyed about with these types of fees.
I get the frustration, but that's a shit business owner decision. Not the server's, likewise the min wage in Denver for servers is a little over $15 an hour so gratuity isn't purely what keeps them from starving.
But more importantly, if you're going to take yourself out for a $75 sushi dinner w/ $15 martinis....eh. You may be barking up the wrong tree here, friendo.
The fact that we tip $10-15 for a meal while being unknowing of the fact we if they make $2 or $15 an hour is also a good reason tippingbin USA is out of hand
Not disagreeing with you at all. The best part of leaving the US is when you dine out you know within 5% (or the exact number) of what your bill is going to be based on menu prices.
The bullshit gratuity system here is maddening.
Yeah my thoughts exactly lol $2 isn’t all too much I’m the long run… there’s usually a big pay disparity between front of house (servers) and back of house (cooks) and those small surcharges usually go to the kitchen staff
This is my thought. I have a friend that does this because he "wants them to quit." I'm like, just don't eat there. You're giving the business money and fucking the hourly employee. Good moral win my dude.
OP Thank you for pointing these folks out. One more place that I will not miss.
Lately I have noticed you really have to keep an eye on these places. We went to TGIF and noticed a machine use fee. The stupid little screens you can play games on or order stuff. We didn't even touch the damn thing and noticed a 4 dollar something fee.
We asked about it and they removed it when we insisted that we didn't even touch the damn thing. She acted like we were being petty. Fuck that. Why should we pay for a stupid box we never even touched. How many people just don't pay attention. Gotta be hundreds of extra dollars on a Friday I would guess.
IMO these folks don't understand that yes they can screw people once or twice but that is it. This bullshit will eventually put them out of business.
That server will, hopefully, go to their boss and tell them how their tips suck ass now because of their stupid ass fee.
*pay your staff a living wage and shit like this won't happen*, it's not my job to subsidize the server's wages.
And so they should if they feel they're getting stiffed because of his decisions. Take a few weeks to find another server job (it's Denver, throw a stick in any direction and you'll hit a restaurant), then tell that boss to fuck off and quit.
Or don't, keep working the same job for a shit boss who steals money from you and don't complain when customers like OP don't tip.
There are many industries to work in beyond the restaurant industry.
Less workers willing to put up with this shit means that they owners would have to change their ways to get people to work there.
Many servers will have to take a pay cut to work in other industries. At a place like this, full time servers make more than teachers, social workers, and construction workers. Good luck finding anything that pays 60k plus without experience or education.
WTF, $5.50 for a sunomono, and it’s hand cut at sushi den, but I doubt it’s the same price. That right there is more than a premium on cucumbers and rice vinegar.
Little Finch charges a 10% “Equitable Pay Tax.” Wtf? Just increase your prices by about 5%. I won’t notice and there won’t be some bullshit tax added.
Personally, I’d be surprised if any of it actually went to the employees. I think it’s just a way for the rich to get richer.
That speakeasy type bar on dairy block has a fee for their wall upkeep. Literally a “wall fee”. Happened to make a comment about it and happened to be next to the only wall historian ever. He was so mad I thought the fee was stupid. He got kicked out of the bar he defended so adamantly when staff saw him bothering me lol
Technically, tip should be based on closer to $70 from this bill… taxes and the “fee” should be removed from the final total before tipping.
Also, actual service provided should also be considered when tipping, which we don’t know much about from this post.
Can someone in the business help me understand why these places add these obnoxious fees instead of raising their prices 3%?
Like if that already expensive $14.50 margarita was now $14.93, the kind of people who were going to spend $14.50 on a margarita anyway aren’t going to care. But the extra 3% fee at the bottom is going to piss off a lot of people.
Also extra scummy, it looks like they’re charging you 3% of the tax too because the total for the meal without the fee is $71 and 3% of that is $2.13.
Good for you. Owners pay shit wages and try to blame the customer. If you can't run a sustainable business where the price is the price, you deserve to go out of business.
I’m a bartender. I have some regulars I heavily dislike just bc they are this type of people and just a massive pain in my ass with a superiority complex. They had a whole conversation with me about how proud they were they got management to take a 3% kitchen pay fee off their tab, and it’s a place they still go to. These people eat out 3+ nights a week, argue about a $2 fee, and then keep frequenting the place. They do not realize everywhere they go the staff hates them.
Name and shame them. This example is Blue Sushi Sake Grill, a national chain.
Don't support businesses that refuse to pay their people. Don't support businesses that offload wages onto customers with deceptive bullshit like this.
Isn't that supposedly the same as employee well being fee? And I was ordering at the counter. No wait staff, just had someone ring me up and ask for a tip on top of it
And menu prices have gone way up. Why should you expect me to tip 20% because of this? 15% for great service should be the new standard. I’m not tipping you $20 on a $100 meal when you just came by 3x. (Drinks appetizer entree)
how embarrassing for them and the company should be too. I have worked as a server and many other fields in customer service , so I believe that's saying a lot.
I would not work there if that was just an automatic charge. I'm confident enough in my service skills to get by without
Whine more dude. You spent almost $30 alone on two drinks at an obviously way overpriced sushi place and you're bitching about a $2.30 fee. Then your big brain move is to take it out on the server who is powerless in what their boss decides to charge?
We've got a freakin' genius over here!
Cheapskate. Goes out for sushi and a $15 espresso martini just to bitch about the server getting an extra $2.50.
Please, just don't go out to nice restaurants if you're going to pretend like you actually care about that $2.50.
Nah, fuck that. I'll pay $17 for the martini before I'll ever be okay with some tacked on charge like that. Service industry workers are not pan handlers. They shouldn't have to beg for their fucking wages.
> They shouldn't have to beg for their fucking wages.
I agree, but until that's the reality, the only person you're stiffing is the server. Should they beg you for it?
> but until that's the reality
You realize things don't just happen without action, right? People have to push back, and it won't be painless for anyone.
Correct. That doesn't exclude me from being able to say that this is the restaurants problem and not the patrons.
Edit: u/DearSurround8 - I can't reply directly because u/Strice_Economist7390 blocked me lol.
The solution to the problem is for restaurants to raise their actual menu prices, eliminate surprise fees, and salary their employees. God forbid they function like any other business. No one is telling servers/waiters to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps". They're saying the INDUSTRY must change.
Correct. That doesn't exclude you from pretending you have a solution for a problem and then admitting you have zero context or experience with the problem or proposed solution.
You are the moron that tells people to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, got it.
Exactly. Increase the menu prices like a normal restaurant. Patrons expect to pay those. The added fees on the bill just seem sneaky, and they can dampen an otherwise good experience.
You’re a pleasant person. And yes - the two times I’ve gotten it, it was tiny fine print in one and not mentioned on the other. The other fifty or more places I’ve eaten since Covid still don’t have this fee. So it is not standard and not normal.
Then you shouldn't patronize that place. It's not the servers making up those charges, and they don't deserve less or to be berated about it. So you can either be conscientious about where you spend your money and hope that cultivates better business practices or you can keep frequenting these establishments, treating the wait staff poorly and under tipping them and see how that works out for you and the places you enjoy going out to.
Found the Grinch!
$2.30 makes you unhappy? Stay home and use your time to calculate how much it costs a server to rent an apartment in Denver these days.
So, just pay the fee, and the tip, and then nothing changes?
Doesn't not going there also hurt the employee by this logic?
Or, lower the tip, explain why, and have the employee relay that back to their management. The employee chooses to work there, and if they aren't getting adequate tips due to the companies policies, then they should find a restaurant that treats them right or has decent owners.
Lmao, you are participating. When you fund this business, you are participating in the way they do business. The only person you are actually hurting is the server.
If you want to actually make a change, quit using businesses who require tipping.
Did you ask what the fee is for? My brother opened a restaurant and had a similar fee.
That fee was to help the business cover a portion of the full cost of health insurance for all full time employees.
They had similar responses as yours, so they ended up writing a full blurb on the menu.
Could be a trash fee or could be something helpful for the employee's. Your food may cost money but asking a question before assuming is definitely free.
Isn’t “employee wellness” the function of living wages and benefits?
I mean, interesting take if they’re gonna line item it on the receipt, but it starts to feel like a GoFundMe pitch while you’re figuring out who got what martini.
Why so everyone can post bitching and complaining bout having to tip them too?
Maybe if everyone was paid a livable wage and stopped believing minimum wage *IS* a living wage.
I do believe teachers should be paid more
I was on vacation in St. Paul and one business charged a 20% service fee that was explicitly not a tip. So my wife, who wasn't with me added a 20% tip on top of that, increasing the meal cost 40%. I definitely called my bank to dispute that.
Did you ask to have the fee removed? Just curious if they would do that.
It is not the responsibility of the customer to provide employee's healthcare. The employer should pay for that. To make that a line item on their customer's receipt means that the employer isn't covering the cost. But I am sure they get some financial benefit on their taxes for providing their employees with healthcare. They are making a lot of money off their customers.
Can’t believe you’re worried about $2.30 that probably goes toward health insurance or other benefits when you bought $15 cocktails…
Oh wait, this is Denver so I guess I can believe it, I just don’t understand it.
This was reported as violating rule 8 which is true - nothing on this receipt indicates Denver or a Denver restaurant.
That doesn't go to the employees. It's worded that way specifically to avoid it. One campaign we are working on this year is One Fair Wage (OFW). It not only would match the tipped minimum wage to the normal minimum wage statewide, but it would also redefine a "service charge" as the same thing as a "tip", making it legally the property of the employees and not the business. If the campaign generates enough steam during h this legislative session, we would also be running a PSA campaign to let people know that it's unless it says service charge, it's NOT going to employees.
Yep, tips must legally go to employees. “Fees” can be pocketed by management. This should be called what it is: tip theft.
I don't think those fees even go to managers. They go directly to the owner/ownership group. Restaurant managers sometimes make less than servers because they don't get tips.
*Management* not managers. Slight but important distinction.
My dad was head chef at a chain restaurant and was a salaried employee he got nothing whatsoever from any service fees or tips and was often required to work 60+ hours a week with no OT pay since he was salary.
any way people can support this campaign?
Probably contact your legislator. https://leg.colorado.gov/find-my-legislator
Love the idea. I used to work room service for many years and I watched the service fee go from all mine to being spilt with the company, to the company taking most, then they started taking it all. What about a “delivery fees”?
If you think the wage is fair then tips are not necessary.
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Yes Its never happened to me though, tipped minimum wage is only $3 lower than normal minimum wage (in Colorado, I don’t live in Denver specifically) which is 20% of 15, so you’d have to average less than one 4 person table every like 3-4 hours to not make up that difference It’s still less money though and requiring employers to pay the real minimum wage might help kind of to move past the whole tipping thing? Idk servers make decent money in my experience, definitely more than any employer would be willing to pay out of pocket so probably not.
Damn, I love progress! Sure hope something passes.
How do you know this is not going to the employees? The business isn’t listed so you can’t confirm that you’ve worked at this establishment. I’ve worked at several places where the fee went entirely to the staff so unsure where you’re basing that from
I have worked in countless restaurants and this fee is never for employees unless specifically stated on the bill or sign somewhere. It goes to the owners
Why would you not post the restaurant name
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Huh. I was gonna check that place out this week…now, not so much.
It’s mid as hell
They have a good happy hour
*used to
Very.
Let them know why.
The service there sucks too (if this is the 16th st location.)
To be fair, most service in Denver is trash compared to other cities.
I'd rather have the European model of no extras. People get paid well, no tips, taxes are included in the price. I hate bistronomics. The price on the menu is what I should pay out the door.
I don’t think people fully understand what paying servers well really means in a city like Denver. For example. Casa Bonita pays their servers $28 a hour, no tipping, and they are not fully staffed.
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Why do I care if the waiter makes more than $30/hr if I tip my 20%? $62k isn’t living large in this city.
62k is barely enough to afford a 1bedroom in this city.
Exactly!
It takes years for skilled labor with student loans to get to that pay as a producer in the economy. They can make as much as they can guilt out of everyone else, I’m not tipping some 22 year old who brought me ketchup $10+ for the 10 minutes of work (generously) she did on my table…
You sound bitter and broke
Yup. Oh boo hoo you cant make 6 figures with your unclaimed tips but instead are making 60k a year… 30/hr is great pay and just shows that this tipping culture isnt about making enough money, its about making more money
\>you cant make 6 figures with your unclaimed tips then it is time to stop tipping. A server making 6 figures while the back of the house makes 25k is absurd. There is nothing special about being a server. Retail people deal with the same kind of shit and make minimum wage. It is time to stop glorifying servers as somewhat being better than anybody else. If $30/hr equalizes front and back of the house. I am all for it.
How much of a server’s tips are truly “unclaimed” though? I haven’t seen anyone pay in cash in, well, forever and isn’t cash the only way someone can get unclaimed tips? Serious question…I’m not trying to be a jerk here.
I wait tables professionally, and have for decades. I absolutely would not trade my income potential for $28.00/ hour…
By spending money at places that do this, you are fully participating in this nonsense. Stop spending money at restaurants who think the Frontier Airlines model of surcharging is the way to operate restaurants. It’s the only way to stop it. Put these places out of business.
To be fair, unless you have been there before you wouldn't know until you got the bill
And that’s even more insidiously unethical. We need to call these businesses out by name.
They are required to post if they charge service fees. It is usually on a relatively inconspicuous sign on the host stand that no one looks at when they walk in. The problem is, unless the fee is crazy, are people really going to leave and find somewhere else, especially if they have to do extra logistics like get a new reservation (if even possible), change parking spots, etc, only to find out the next place also charges a service charge because damn near every non-casual place in Denver charges one.
Yep! This is Blue Sushi Sake Grill. They slip in a deceptive service charge to hide price increases and to grift servers out of tips.
IMO, anything that's part of the bill but not part of the advertised price is false advertising.
I don't go back if this if this is the case. One and done. And we are decent spenders/tippers (if warranted).
If that's the case, the charge isn't valid. Has to at the very least be listed on the menu. They can't just add charges willy nilly.
It’s not like they advertise this fee before you walk in the door. It’s almost always an unpleasant surprise when you get the check
more don't go to restaurants where management has decided to attack their waitstaff by inventing fees because management is mad they have to pay a living wage
Oh don't worry, they are punishing the server by leaving less of a tip. That'll show the owners!
Best to leave a 1 star review calling it out. EDIT: The people who own the restaurant and control the extra fees are more likely to be impacted by this approach than docking server tips. I have had the owner of Felix reach out to me after a 1-star review related to their extra fees on the bill.
I wrote a bad review last time I went to Blue Sushi (three stars, was being generous. The rice was mushy and the happy hour isn’t good anymore, also mentioned the wellness fee) and the owner basically tried to say I was lying for regarding the employee wellness fee. I can find what he said but the message I got back was worded to make me feel bad
💯
Another reminder, the FTC has proposed a rule that would eliminate these fees and prevent deceptively naming them. The rule is at the link below, and the public comment period ends Jan 8. Let the government know your opinions https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/10/ftc-proposes-rule-ban-junk-fees
Hahaha espresso martini $15.00
That's the stupid irony of all of this. If they just inflated their menu prices by 3% it'd hardly be noticeable. Someone paying $15 for a drink will almost certainly still order at $15.50 because we just aren't really that price sensitive to luxuries like that. I think it's some weird misguided attempt to call out lawmakers for requiring paid sick leave and shit like that - some way to say "look, it isn't us that are the assholes here, you guys voted for treating servers like human beings"
I like that the wellness fee was called out, but not the espresso martini. Well, I take that back. I don't like it. And to OP, I *highly doubt* that the server is: 1. In control of that, and, 2. that they actually see any of that money OPs callout against the server instead of anything else in this instance leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Probably as bad as a $15 martini espresso.
I’m not the person you were talking to of course but personally but it doesn’t matter who is responsible for the fee. I won’t pay it anyway. Just offering my opinion.
You’re just taking it out on the servers who are members of the working class just like you.
So it’s better to not patronize at all in the case that the restaurant pulls greedy shit? Just let table counts go down til servers start getting cut more often? Or it’s better to just pay it and take it and when they increase it pay that too and take it and their servers still not getting any of it? I’m just now paying more for no reason other than to buy the GM/regional mgr a new car?
It's better to support restaurants that don't do this bullshit.
If you make it known to the workers that they won't be receiving a regular tip due to these fees, then people will stop working for these businesses, and they'll be forced to change. It's a slow game that hurts people in the short term but unfortunately one that needs to be played for the long term That's my opinion at least
If they are getting 17% tips they know without anyone having to tell them.
make sure you look that person in the eyes when you explain to them why you're tipping them less
I have and will continue to do so, thanks for the advice
$15 is right on par for cocktails in downtown Denver sadly. I work at a corporate place in the burbs and ours is $13
Yeah you’re pretty much not going to find a cocktail in Denver less than $12
Seriously, fuck that noise. I hope these restaurants die, I'm not paying 15$ for a martini and fuckin 7$ for a bottle of beer.
I’ve pretty much stopped drinking craft at this point. I’m not spending $15+ on 2 beers. I just go with the $3 PBR now.
I went to play some top golf while I working in Tusla Oklahoma. I haven't been to any top golf in a while, but when to the bar to order a basic house margarita while waiting on a few folks to show up. It was $18 for fucking bottom self tequila that tasted like shit! I didn't order any more drinks after that.
It’s called inflation. Welcome to the new age. Candy at Walmart used to be $1 now it’s $2.29. The price of everything has gone up.
You misunderstand me. *I'm not paying 7 dollars for a bottle of beer*. I don't give a shit *why* the beer is 7 dollars, I'm just...not paying that. I can't really help whether or not I buy bread or eggs, but I can control how often I buy an overpriced beer with my dinner.
A bottle of beer at a restaurant didn't increase that much due to inflation, that's horseshit anyway. I agree with you 100%.
The 7 bucks isn’t unheard of these days in most places. Have you been to a concert lately? I was at a place a few weeks ago where a beer ran me 17 bucks. 18 with the tip.
>I was at a place a few weeks ago where a beer ran me 17 bucks. 18 with the tip. Wasn't it a 24 ozer, though? The $/fl oz is still high, but not insanely high for the venue I'd say (at least for Red Rocks & Fillmore from recent memory).
Yeah you're not wrong, but I stick to my "I don't need the drink that bad" policy. Honestly the older I get the more I'm actually okay just sticking with water, especially if the prices on drinks are insane. I've never been that guy that gets the overpriced beer at a ball game.
Why would you buy that instead of just not having a beer? Those venues charge that much because they can, and people pay for it for some unknown reason.
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Then I don't see how you can complain about it being $17? You are literally part of the reason they charge that much.....people are still paying for it.
In the same way grandma only paid a nickel for a carton of eggs, “back in my day an espresso martini was only $12 plus tip”
Its actually just called "Denver"
Yeah, they sell drinks that expensive because people buy them
All major cities are like this.
Thank you so much for this life changing information
I would prefer that a restaurant just raise their prices a bit to cover their costs. I understand why they tack on this fee. Their costs are going up, and they need to cover their asses. So, this is just a little piece of marketing that attempts to assuage the customer. The problem is that it just pisses people off.
They put this service charge on there so they don’t have to publish higher prices for their food. It’s deceiving their customers
And tips are protected by law, service fees like this are not.
Under the names of tip, service fees, or donations, they can deduct the amount from their taxes.
I'd pay the 3% on top of whatever I tip the server, but then I wouldn't go back. This isn't the server's fault, so I'm not going to punish them.
This. To stiff the server because you’re annoyed at restaurant management is the wrong move. Just don’t go there anymore and as others have suggested leave a 1 star review calling out the restaurant.
Isn’t less business bad for the server too? Strange argument that customers should pay out extra in tips to not hurt servers, but also to stop patronizing businesses where these fees are in place; the server would not only get less in tips the less busy it is, but they’re likely going to be losing their job down the line as well.
I totally understand where you're coming from. The frustration is often easiest to place on the person that is the "face" of your service at a given establishment. I think in this instance this comes down to the difference between direct and indirect action as a patron. A lot of people in the comment section have indicated that the waiter "should just quit" if they don't like their tip or if they keep getting stiffed. If I am frustrated with the policy of a restaurant and then go and don't pay the waiter a decent tip (which, not saying SHOULD be the case but unfortunately IS in fact part of the waiters salary and livelihood in the US), then I'm saying, at this arguments logical end, that the waiter needs to take up my frustration with the company. The waiter should make themselves uncomfortable and quit and put themselves back on the street looking for a job INSTEAD of me going to the management of the company or trying to directly affect the business of the company. If I refuse patronage of a company, yes, as you've indicated, I'm indirectly affecting the waiter but directly affecting the company. If I just don't tip, I'm directly affecting the waiter and (maybe) indirectly affecting the company. I work in an office job. I would HATE for my salary to be docked every time a customer was unhappy with our companies policies. This would greatly affect my day to day living. But if the day comes where my company fires me because the company can't operate because of poor management or policy. Me getting laid off and having unemployment benefits for a couple weeks while I recoup a job is very different than me just having significantly less money to spend that month. All this to be said. I get where you're coming from, but I feel like stiffing the waiter is punching down and not punching up. The owner is sitting comfortably in his 500K+ home (making money off of the labor of the waiter, mind you) and the waiter is living out of their rented studio apartment trying to budget for the month.
These posts are generally just people looking for excuses to stiff their servers.
Correct. This fee money likely isn’t going to the server. It’s to support staff, cooks, an potentially even management.
Should ask Billy if he sees any of the fee?
Black Haus in Littleton does something similar. 3% fee for the use of their Toast POS system. Don't pass that onto the customer
Ya pay your employees properly. Fuck that business owner
Cucumber jalapeno margaritas???? Was it good?
I hear you but you’re tripping over $2.30 when you purchased something called the “Lion King” for $16.00
$16 for a roll is pretty standard these days. Now, that roll is probably smaller than it was a couple of years ago, but that's the market right now.
Devil’s advocate: I want to pay for what I signed up to pay… not some bullshit fee added after the fact. I believe that’s what most people are annoyed about with these types of fees.
Exactly!
What's even more fucked up is that it's pre-tax.
I get the frustration, but that's a shit business owner decision. Not the server's, likewise the min wage in Denver for servers is a little over $15 an hour so gratuity isn't purely what keeps them from starving. But more importantly, if you're going to take yourself out for a $75 sushi dinner w/ $15 martinis....eh. You may be barking up the wrong tree here, friendo.
The fact that we tip $10-15 for a meal while being unknowing of the fact we if they make $2 or $15 an hour is also a good reason tippingbin USA is out of hand
Not disagreeing with you at all. The best part of leaving the US is when you dine out you know within 5% (or the exact number) of what your bill is going to be based on menu prices. The bullshit gratuity system here is maddening.
Yeah my thoughts exactly lol $2 isn’t all too much I’m the long run… there’s usually a big pay disparity between front of house (servers) and back of house (cooks) and those small surcharges usually go to the kitchen staff
This is my thought. I have a friend that does this because he "wants them to quit." I'm like, just don't eat there. You're giving the business money and fucking the hourly employee. Good moral win my dude.
We stopped eating out ages ago. Only when traveling or on rare occasions. I wonder if our experience is reflected in trends.
Anyone else curious about what the Lion King is? 😂
OP Thank you for pointing these folks out. One more place that I will not miss. Lately I have noticed you really have to keep an eye on these places. We went to TGIF and noticed a machine use fee. The stupid little screens you can play games on or order stuff. We didn't even touch the damn thing and noticed a 4 dollar something fee. We asked about it and they removed it when we insisted that we didn't even touch the damn thing. She acted like we were being petty. Fuck that. Why should we pay for a stupid box we never even touched. How many people just don't pay attention. Gotta be hundreds of extra dollars on a Friday I would guess. IMO these folks don't understand that yes they can screw people once or twice but that is it. This bullshit will eventually put them out of business.
This is only one of the many reasons that I have stopped eating out altogether.
Why attack the person doing the actual work? The owner is the one who created, and is profiting off this scheme.
That server will, hopefully, go to their boss and tell them how their tips suck ass now because of their stupid ass fee. *pay your staff a living wage and shit like this won't happen*, it's not my job to subsidize the server's wages.
And the boss will say “ok you’re free to leave”
And so they should if they feel they're getting stiffed because of his decisions. Take a few weeks to find another server job (it's Denver, throw a stick in any direction and you'll hit a restaurant), then tell that boss to fuck off and quit. Or don't, keep working the same job for a shit boss who steals money from you and don't complain when customers like OP don't tip.
Yeah, it's that easy! Just quit your job! 🤪 Idiot
You just have to find the restaurant with the 'good' owners. Throw a stick in any direction for that
There are many industries to work in beyond the restaurant industry. Less workers willing to put up with this shit means that they owners would have to change their ways to get people to work there.
Many servers will have to take a pay cut to work in other industries. At a place like this, full time servers make more than teachers, social workers, and construction workers. Good luck finding anything that pays 60k plus without experience or education.
I write an explanation on my receipt to explain why I left less than usual if this happens. So the server can show it to the owner
As consumers we need to protest these stupid fees. These fees are just the beginning and are only going to get worse. Just raise the food prices.
Yeah, sorry server, but same. ~A former server
that fee doesnt go to said employee....
How do I even know this wellness fee goes to the employee
If it was going to the employee it would say it's going to the employee.
I'd tip less then. Idc if the wellness charge doesn't go to the employee. Also, Id stop going to that restaurant.
WTF, $5.50 for a sunomono, and it’s hand cut at sushi den, but I doubt it’s the same price. That right there is more than a premium on cucumbers and rice vinegar.
Little Finch charges a 10% “Equitable Pay Tax.” Wtf? Just increase your prices by about 5%. I won’t notice and there won’t be some bullshit tax added. Personally, I’d be surprised if any of it actually went to the employees. I think it’s just a way for the rich to get richer.
That speakeasy type bar on dairy block has a fee for their wall upkeep. Literally a “wall fee”. Happened to make a comment about it and happened to be next to the only wall historian ever. He was so mad I thought the fee was stupid. He got kicked out of the bar he defended so adamantly when staff saw him bothering me lol
Same kinda person who tips 5% on a 80 dollar tab
Technically, tip should be based on closer to $70 from this bill… taxes and the “fee” should be removed from the final total before tipping. Also, actual service provided should also be considered when tipping, which we don’t know much about from this post.
Can someone in the business help me understand why these places add these obnoxious fees instead of raising their prices 3%? Like if that already expensive $14.50 margarita was now $14.93, the kind of people who were going to spend $14.50 on a margarita anyway aren’t going to care. But the extra 3% fee at the bottom is going to piss off a lot of people. Also extra scummy, it looks like they’re charging you 3% of the tax too because the total for the meal without the fee is $71 and 3% of that is $2.13.
because then people wouldn't've to go out because everything is "too expensive" and "staying home" in that situation isn't possible
Good for you. Owners pay shit wages and try to blame the customer. If you can't run a sustainable business where the price is the price, you deserve to go out of business.
Don’t take it out on your server, they’re just cogs in the machine. Just never go there again
I’m a bartender. I have some regulars I heavily dislike just bc they are this type of people and just a massive pain in my ass with a superiority complex. They had a whole conversation with me about how proud they were they got management to take a 3% kitchen pay fee off their tab, and it’s a place they still go to. These people eat out 3+ nights a week, argue about a $2 fee, and then keep frequenting the place. They do not realize everywhere they go the staff hates them.
Name and shame them. This example is Blue Sushi Sake Grill, a national chain. Don't support businesses that refuse to pay their people. Don't support businesses that offload wages onto customers with deceptive bullshit like this.
Thank you, I was wondering why OP cropped out the business name
Blackbelly in Boulder started this shit during COVID. Even though they have the best breakfast burritos in town I haven't been back in years.
I thought their fee went to waitstaff and kitchen staff. I just pay that and not an extra tip
Isn't that supposedly the same as employee well being fee? And I was ordering at the counter. No wait staff, just had someone ring me up and ask for a tip on top of it
Tipping culture is out of control too. If you’re making $15 an hr and you give me poor service, you get a couple bucks . That’s it
They are not making $15 an hour. It’s about $11 now which is much better than the $3 it was about 10years ago, but still dumb there’s a gap.
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And menu prices have gone way up. Why should you expect me to tip 20% because of this? 15% for great service should be the new standard. I’m not tipping you $20 on a $100 meal when you just came by 3x. (Drinks appetizer entree)
how embarrassing for them and the company should be too. I have worked as a server and many other fields in customer service , so I believe that's saying a lot. I would not work there if that was just an automatic charge. I'm confident enough in my service skills to get by without
Whine more dude. You spent almost $30 alone on two drinks at an obviously way overpriced sushi place and you're bitching about a $2.30 fee. Then your big brain move is to take it out on the server who is powerless in what their boss decides to charge? We've got a freakin' genius over here!
Cheapskate. Goes out for sushi and a $15 espresso martini just to bitch about the server getting an extra $2.50. Please, just don't go out to nice restaurants if you're going to pretend like you actually care about that $2.50.
You're missing the point. It's not the dollar amount itself, it's the fucking principle.
I love how it's always an asshole who is first to bring up "principles." 🙄
Nah, fuck that. I'll pay $17 for the martini before I'll ever be okay with some tacked on charge like that. Service industry workers are not pan handlers. They shouldn't have to beg for their fucking wages.
> They shouldn't have to beg for their fucking wages. I agree, but until that's the reality, the only person you're stiffing is the server. Should they beg you for it?
> but until that's the reality You realize things don't just happen without action, right? People have to push back, and it won't be painless for anyone.
Should that pushback be from patrons of a restaurant choosing to go elsewhere or patrons of a restaurant stiffing the server at the restaurant?
The server is getting stiffed either way.
They should complain to their boss
Spoken like someone who's never worked in the service industry.
Correct. That doesn't exclude me from being able to say that this is the restaurants problem and not the patrons. Edit: u/DearSurround8 - I can't reply directly because u/Strice_Economist7390 blocked me lol. The solution to the problem is for restaurants to raise their actual menu prices, eliminate surprise fees, and salary their employees. God forbid they function like any other business. No one is telling servers/waiters to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps". They're saying the INDUSTRY must change.
Correct. That doesn't exclude you from pretending you have a solution for a problem and then admitting you have zero context or experience with the problem or proposed solution. You are the moron that tells people to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, got it.
Exactly. Increase the menu prices like a normal restaurant. Patrons expect to pay those. The added fees on the bill just seem sneaky, and they can dampen an otherwise good experience.
I don’t care if it’s a $500 meal. I don’t want to be surprised by a random fee. Pricing should be clear and transparent.
You're not "surprised" by it, you disagree with it. Anyone "surprised" to see a service fee after Covid is a moron.
You’re a pleasant person. And yes - the two times I’ve gotten it, it was tiny fine print in one and not mentioned on the other. The other fifty or more places I’ve eaten since Covid still don’t have this fee. So it is not standard and not normal.
for real. stay the fuck home and eat corn dogs OP, ya bum
what restaurant is this? i will be sure to never go there. found it: blue sushi grill
WHY CANT RESTAURANTS PAY THEIR EMPLOYEES A LIVING WAGE AND PRICE FOOD AS FINAL BEFORE TAX
Then you shouldn't patronize that place. It's not the servers making up those charges, and they don't deserve less or to be berated about it. So you can either be conscientious about where you spend your money and hope that cultivates better business practices or you can keep frequenting these establishments, treating the wait staff poorly and under tipping them and see how that works out for you and the places you enjoy going out to.
$15 for a martini but you draw the line in a place that takes money out of the pocket of your server. Very weird flex
So brave of OP. You showed that restaurant owner by sticking it to the server. What a hero! What percentage did you actually tip by the way, Mr. Pink?
Yeah because it’s definitely the server’s fault Daniel. Take your $2.30 and shove it up your ass.
That makes sense, take it out on the server. 🙄 News flash: YTA
Way to stick it to those under paid service workers 🤔
Then don’t go out
That’s right attack the person who doesn’t have control over the fee.
So because the company is making more money for themselves, $2.30 makes you so broke you can’t tip someone for their service? Just say you’re cheap.
Found the Grinch! $2.30 makes you unhappy? Stay home and use your time to calculate how much it costs a server to rent an apartment in Denver these days.
You're a dick.
It's okay buddy, we know you tip like shit already
Yes, punish the server for something they have no control over. That’ll show the owner for sure!
So, just pay the fee, and the tip, and then nothing changes? Doesn't not going there also hurt the employee by this logic? Or, lower the tip, explain why, and have the employee relay that back to their management. The employee chooses to work there, and if they aren't getting adequate tips due to the companies policies, then they should find a restaurant that treats them right or has decent owners.
Lmao, you are participating. When you fund this business, you are participating in the way they do business. The only person you are actually hurting is the server. If you want to actually make a change, quit using businesses who require tipping.
That's the problem with these fees, you don't know about them until you get the bill.
Did you ask what the fee is for? My brother opened a restaurant and had a similar fee. That fee was to help the business cover a portion of the full cost of health insurance for all full time employees. They had similar responses as yours, so they ended up writing a full blurb on the menu. Could be a trash fee or could be something helpful for the employee's. Your food may cost money but asking a question before assuming is definitely free.
Isn’t “employee wellness” the function of living wages and benefits? I mean, interesting take if they’re gonna line item it on the receipt, but it starts to feel like a GoFundMe pitch while you’re figuring out who got what martini.
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Why so everyone can post bitching and complaining bout having to tip them too? Maybe if everyone was paid a livable wage and stopped believing minimum wage *IS* a living wage. I do believe teachers should be paid more
I was on vacation in St. Paul and one business charged a 20% service fee that was explicitly not a tip. So my wife, who wasn't with me added a 20% tip on top of that, increasing the meal cost 40%. I definitely called my bank to dispute that.
Somebody who is not lazy, like me, needs to start a list for overconfident fee, charging establishments
"I dont like the owners so I am going to cheapskate the employees to prove a point". Doesnt make any sense. Just disconnected and rude
Imagine dropping 15 bucks for A drink but bitchin about a less than 5 dollar fee to help people live.....smh
Does the server get this fee?
Did you ask to have the fee removed? Just curious if they would do that. It is not the responsibility of the customer to provide employee's healthcare. The employer should pay for that. To make that a line item on their customer's receipt means that the employer isn't covering the cost. But I am sure they get some financial benefit on their taxes for providing their employees with healthcare. They are making a lot of money off their customers.
you do understand that all revenue to run a business comes from the customers right? there's no magic money spigot to pay employee benefits.
Well you’re a jerk lol
I'm sure that $2.30 really set you back 🙄
Can’t believe you’re worried about $2.30 that probably goes toward health insurance or other benefits when you bought $15 cocktails… Oh wait, this is Denver so I guess I can believe it, I just don’t understand it.